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To Bail Or Not To Bail: A Simple Question Of Math; And Why Taxpayers Will Be On The Hook Until The End

Tyler Durden's picture




 

When it comes to rescuing an insolvent country, continent, or entire financial system, at the end of the day it is a simple question of maths: is "doing it" cheaper than the alternative. Recall that the IIF was heaping fire and brimstone on bondholders and threatening the world with $1+ trillion in losses if bondholders did not comply. That nobody has any clue just what said costs, and opportunity costs, are, does not matter: the status quo must be preserved at all costs. And the status quo is one of avoiding private losses at the expense of taxpayer capital. Enter Credit Suisse with its back of the envelope analysis of the cost of not bailing out Europe's insolvent PIIGS, and the (taxpayer) cost to "save" them.

Needless to say, it is a foregone conclusion that according to CS' back of the envelope analysis, not rescuing peripheral Europe would cost at least €681 billion - much greater than the cost to bail out the PIIGS at €627 billion. What is not noted, however, is who bears the costs. Obviously, in the first case the costs would accrue to the banker cartel; in the second one it is simply the taxpayers who have to keep funneling over their hard earned pieces of worthless fiat. As such one can make the argument that if even €1 of bankster money was at risk, it is irrelevant how much money taxpayers would stand to lose - whether it is €1.01 or €1 quadrillion. After all, this is merely "money" that can be printed, either overtly, or covertly (via LTROs) by the appropriate central banks, a process that would then be funded by more public debt issuance, and further enslavement of future generations of taxpayers. Unfortuntely, the latter is not the bankers' concern. They have a few years to get rich, and to a deportation-free country. Everything else is noise. Which is why until the very end, many more trillions in fiat will be thrown at the altar of Moloch before there is nothing left.

Cost of no bailout:

Cost of bailout.

Bottom line: the math doesn't lie. As for everyone else? That's a different matter entirely.

 

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Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:31 | 2271023 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

It matters to me ... And I'm not happy about whom they are selecting as the winners and losers.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:42 | 2271046 redpill
redpill's picture

If it comes to it Ben will bail out every single banker in Europe if he needs to.  I mean, all the little folks and pension funds are fucked, but just as long as the "financial systemic risk" is reduced that's all that "really" matters.

It's amazing people will endlessly bitch and moan about the inherent corruption and criminality of our current system, yet at the drop of a hat they will drool and nod when some central banker stands up and proclaims the systemic financial turmoil must be avoided at any cost*

*any cost meaning everyone bails out the system they claim to hate

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:48 | 2271057 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

It's amazing people will endlessly bitch and moan about the inherent corruption and criminality of our current system, yet at the drop of a hat they will drool and nod when some central banker stands up and proclaims the systemic financial turmoil must be avoided at any cost*

*any cost meaning everyone bails out the system they claim to hate

 

+Infinity!!!!

Holy fuck shit cocksucker that simple truth makes me want to scream! Can we hang these mother fuckers yet!?!?!?!?!?!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:55 | 2271072 leathaface
leathaface's picture

*any cost meaning everyone bails out the system they claim to hate

"We had to abandon the free market to save the free market?"  Fuckin morons

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:27 | 2271116 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

This is not a question of math. This is actually a moral issue. Is it right to let systemically important financial institutions go bankrupt, which will decimate the economy and harm many future generations? Or should we protect our children's futures by saving institutions that are simply too big to fail?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:46 | 2271173 pies_lancuchowy
pies_lancuchowy's picture

retard or troll ?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:52 | 2271191 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Both.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:09 | 2271410 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Retard, troll, and don't forget...shitstain.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:02 | 2271578 Fedophile
Fedophile's picture

It will always be cheaper for the bankers to have the tax payer bail them out.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:41 | 2271888 economics9698
economics9698's picture

What is good for the children is declaring bankruptcy, arresting politicians and bankers who ran up the debt, and moving on.

Moving on would include 100% fractional reserve banking, gold/silver.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:14 | 2271975 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

as much as i have to agree that MDB"s antics have been less funny over time, i still do enjoy the fact that his comments RELIABLY solicit responses. i mean, if you are responding AT ALL, you are the one being punked. this is why i read the responses to his comments, because he is making fun of you. ( and us of course ) . 

 

anyways MDB, i miss the days when your sarcasm was dripping with disgust. you're playing to nice for a while now. it's getting staid. up your shit up. 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:33 | 2272054 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

you are both wrong MDB is the entertainment...he just needs some stage time to hone his act...

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:30 | 2273333 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

MillionDollarRetrolltard...I used to think noone could be that stupid(except on purpose), I was wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMK9zxb5HyE&list=FLeGAOM7ibPwtPLGNel9UVBA&index=11&feature=plpp_video

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:50 | 2271186 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

'Yes' to the first question, 'False' to the second.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:51 | 2271190 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

People get the bankers who own the politicians that they deserve.

 


Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:10 | 2271252 bjfish
bjfish's picture

Hey million$ idiot:  Do your children understand that their share of the bill is $100,000 each (plus interest)?  How's that for protecting their future! 

Selling out our children's future is morally reprehensible.  So you were right about one thing; it is a moral issue.

 

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 00:19 | 2272199 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

BBBut...if my children stand on my expanding bubble and their children stand on their bubble....our family of bubbles will achieve lightspeed and when the google bubbles explode everone on the furthest out bubble will escape the monstrosity.  Plan ?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:12 | 2271260 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Isn't immoral to make future generations debt slaves from cradle to grave?? All so you can live like a king ?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 02:41 | 2272376 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Not only immoral but illegal. You cannot legally enforce a debt on a newborn just because they were born in the "wrong" country - 20 years ago, that wrong country would have been Bangladesh, India, China.

What will the Bangladeshi's parents say 10 years from now - "finish your rice, think of all the starving kids in the USSA?"

WOW, how our world has changed in just 1.5 generations.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:36 | 2271660 Travis Bickel
Travis Bickel's picture

Agreed MDB. Everyone should ask yourself one simple elegant question: "Is it good for the children"?

Bravo!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:43 | 2272095 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

is it right to label any institution as financially "important"? Isn't that really impossible? If one company was so important the economy depended on it, it IS the government and shouldn't be a company.

If it's a real company then it should not ever be so important that we all depend on it. Can't have it both ways.

The biggest decimation to today's economy is to rob the economy to feed the failed banks. They merely consume money & produce instability and crime. No benefit to society whatsoever has resulted. None.

Bank accounts & pensions go empty, houses are stolen using forged documents then re-sold illegally. That's what the bailouts paid for. "too big to fail" = big enough it should be killed right now.

The moral answer is the math answer: kill too big to fail. Kill JPM. Kill goldman sachs. Kill Bank of America. Kill them NOW.

 

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 03:00 | 2272404 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

@MDB,  That's pure gold!   No one can write like you when you are on your game.  You are truly an inspiration.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:26 | 2271119 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

But but but....I Thought We Made A Profit From The Bailouts!!!!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 03:09 | 2272414 oldman
oldman's picture

sweetchicken

you got enough rope for six billion of us?             om

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:43 | 2271166 pies_lancuchowy
pies_lancuchowy's picture

redpill - I masturbate in awe of your being so fcuking right on the spot. Well said.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:47 | 2271053 csmith
csmith's picture

Exactly...the question is WHO wins and stays wealthy and powerful, rather than how much money is involved.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:42 | 2271163 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Me neither, where should I move to? Canada, Iceland, or Costa Rica? What about Panama? Screw these bankster bastidz and the politicians, I'll never see my Social Security. If I get a job, I'm just paying into the mess, I need to keep all the money for me- that's why I cut lawns for $10/hr CASH all mine. I'm getting ready to pack my bags becuz it doesn't look good for a Dr. Paul win in november.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:52 | 2271192 CynicLaureate
CynicLaureate's picture

Where exactly will you move to?

Why would that new country want you around?

When things go bad in the new country, you'll be the new scapegoat, and your property will be redistributed to the people.

 

Extra credit: do the Mexican drug cartels charge more for protection than the IRS takes every year? Habla usted Español?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:11 | 2271246 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Good questions, but be sure the IRS will up their collections by a big amount. $Trillionz to the Banksterz means $Trillionz on the back of ME! Fuck it, I didn't co-sign that loan. Politicianz & Timmay are Robo-signing MY name on every new TBill auction, I don't like it. Thanks for your thoughts, ZH is the greatest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0o0l7ekKvk

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:16 | 2271991 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Unless you have knowledge worthy of cartel protection, you are screwed!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:04 | 2271395 AUD
AUD's picture

Remember though your cash is the credit of its bank of issue. The 'collateral' for its credit is all the low quality financial 'assets' that you complain about.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 03:21 | 2272420 oldman
oldman's picture

Swingforce

Ask your mommy and daddy or have they already left the table with the bill due to ' go to the bathroom'?

I see you people everyday coming here to eat for free in the third world with your arrogant gemands that the locals learn english and adopt all of your old broken dreams

Sorry, friend, I don't even know you or your parents, so it is nothing personal. It is just that I have been in the middle of an invasion, a plague, of americans lately, all asking the same question.

 my answer is the same to each: Go home and clean up your mess and pay for your meal. Don't be a deadbeat, settle your account

Yeah, twenty-three days trapped in a place invaded by the locusts from the us of a----all with the same quiestions and ugly to boot.

Oh, no, not to look at----just ungracious and mean----stay home--you can fix it up                            om

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:33 | 2271025 Total Collapse
Total Collapse's picture

$1000/oz silver, here we come...

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:52 | 2271066 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Gonna have to be more like $3666 if the GSR reverts to 1:15

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:34 | 2271138 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Was listening to a round table podcast with David Morgan and Eric Sprott. DM said Jeff Christian admitted at one the silver summits to not 100:1 paper to physical, but 400:1 Lol
Back of fag packet $32 x 400 = $12800/oz of PHYZZ
I just shit my pants ... and enjoyed it!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:35 | 2271142 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

shit...if silver goes to 1,000, i'm buying me a country and make it completely free. y'all are invited!

BYOB BITCHEZ!!!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:43 | 2271162 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

1000? HAH!

oh wait... Doodles figures on tea pad...

That there is Freedom!

It would be something to drop a coin or two of Gold or several more in Silver onto the table and say here. It's padi up. (More than likely it will be electronic... but oh well..)

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:14 | 2271627 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Hey TD, ZH comments appear to have gone well beyond tongue-in-cheek humor and fringe lunacy to full on retard.  Enjoyed the fun while it lasted, but it appears the readership has devolved to those primarily seeking waffle irons from WM at a deep discount.  To those I have the following advice: Beware of competing WM shoppers brandishing pepper spray.  Carry on.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:54 | 2271735 akak
akak's picture

.

Hey TD, ZH comments appear to have gone well beyond tongue-in-cheek humor and fringe lunacy to full on retard.

If you happen to be speaking about MillionDollarAnus, AnAnonymouse, JimmyJames and Sandoz --- oh, and StaxEdwards --- then I wholeheartedly concur.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:53 | 2272130 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Sorry, I am conceal carry and treat pepper spray as a attack that fits a criteria for a draw.

Kinda interesting that we hardly ever go to wally these days. Don't really need to.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:37 | 2272592 Antipodeus
Antipodeus's picture

"Never bring pepper to a lead fight"?


Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:44 | 2271167 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Don't forget, you need somebody with that $1000 in cash to buy it from you.....good luck!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:57 | 2271207 hack3434
hack3434's picture

Looking at AAPL and all the iTrash goes to show that anything is possible. 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:13 | 2271258 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Well, think about the stupid people that give up their cash- how does 1/2 oz. of Silver stack up to an iPad3?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:48 | 2271322 hack3434
hack3434's picture

How does a piece of paper (if you asked for certificates or whatever) that says"1 Share of Apple" stack up to a 1/2oz of Silver? Besides, that's a US-centric view of the i-Mania. Some people out there still like to save (iDollars for now...) and tech savy people go with Android which is hands down a much better and open source platform.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:14 | 2271263 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Don't you worry. Ive seen last years asks and bids that were in the amounts bordering on fantasy (And getting executed and traded all done too...)

When the time comes, you smile at the bank, or the bank smiles at you.

All the same, need a dishwasher. I can probably hire someone to do it manually the right way instead of paying the same sum for a pos energy star crap that will burn up a year from now.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:35 | 2271033 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Molochs rule

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:38 | 2271037 bobola
bobola's picture

The ultra-wealthy will be trading their worthless fiat for silver, gold, land...???

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:26 | 2271458 SnobGobbler
SnobGobbler's picture

nah they already have all that, good thing hookers and blow never gets old.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:44 | 2271893 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

The hooker's blowin probably won't even know there taking paper fiat that is worthless for there labor rate after shtf.  

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:39 | 2271039 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

At least it rhymes nicely with bollocks.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:12 | 2271083 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Joe Biden rhymes with bollocks

er, no it doesn't!

i'm trying to find some use for the slacker, have to keep lookin..

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:13 | 2271261 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Joe Biden is as stupid as they come.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:43 | 2271047 Hedgerow-
Hedgerow-'s picture

2050: "Those days we had elections and referendums, we used to call it democracy" - Planet World

 

:Golf clap:

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:44 | 2271050 capm
capm's picture

The unquantifiable cost associated with the loss in the integrity of the system when bad investments are bailed out is most certainly greater than any of the other line items.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:49 | 2271054 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Of course cheaper is relative and doesn't indicate much.

 

The real question is, without the fraudulent monetary system, what level of power over the universe would human beings have today if the monetary system was ditched X years ago? 

 

Because comparing numbers is one thing, comparing the drive to invent, create, discover, etc is never included in there.  

 

It's like saying the best thing for us is that we go have fun.  What is cheaper going to a movie, or order pay per view? Well  that forgets that issue that instead of having 'fun', one could of spent that time doing home repair or working at a job.  In other words, just because the decisions are decided based on numbers, doesn't mean they take an accurate assessment of what the policy is.  Because all policies and options aren't involved. 

To believe it is cheaper to print, you have to forget the fact that the above goes from merely vastly suboptimal to nonexistent.   Progress without the monetarists dragging everyone down would be much faster.

It's like saying what's better a republican or democrat?  What does it matter.  They both suck.  The answer really is, what candidate actually represents the interests that matter, because they are neither republican nor democrat. 

So to say it's cheaper one way or another, doesn't mean either way is the correct way.   Choosing between having to endure diarrhea or throwing up, isn't exactly a good choice. 

Glass-Steagall

American Credit System (Hamiltonian)

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:50 | 2271062 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Taxpayers? Ain't enough cash flow to tax!

You meant printing press.  There, I feel better.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:03 | 2271067 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

To Bail Or Not To Bail.. And Why Taxpayers Will Be On The Hook Until The End

Un-hooking in 3, 2, 1.... Stop Paying Your Taxes

Sorted those suckers out, next...

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:53 | 2271068 leathaface
leathaface's picture

Muppets gotta pay the piper (or banksta) bitchez!!!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:54 | 2271070 Likstane
Likstane's picture

It is not a matter of determining if the cost of the bailout is bigger or smaller than the percieved or actual cost of no bailout.  That doesn't matter.   The real problem is the enforced pilfering of the public to support any private entity, including any of todays "sovereign" nations.  I realize most reading already know this; I just wanted to vent before I settle in for the night with a bag of pork rinds and 'dancing with the stars.' My wife thinks Chelsea Palin and Chaz Bono would make a cute couple, but I really think Christine O'donnel and Timmy Tebow will dominate. 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 17:58 | 2271073 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Here's a simple question to the zerohedgesphere.

Do taxpayers even realize who they are bailing out and where the costs show up?

Ever hear some fucking dolt say "the government will pay for it" or "the government should pay for it"?

ZH posted an article about a guy that has been living in a $1.4 MILLION dollar home for 5 YEARS and has never made a mortgage payment. Not fucking 1 mortgage payment. Guess who with 99% certainty owns that mortgage? The Federal Reserve, which printed the money out of thin air for it. At one point a bank like JPM probably owned that mortage but since they don't have to worry about taking a loss on it will go out and put their money where it will chase it's best rate of return....maybe that's stocks. But some other investor who owned those stocks is thinking...stocks are overvalued and I want a hard asset to protect myself against inflation so I'm going to buy oil. Well guess what assholes? The price of oil goes up.

This goes for welfare, foreign aide, and every other fucking thing "the government pays for"

People LOVE handing out money from the magical wealth machine, otherwise known as the government. However, when gas prices go up they get pissed. This is because people don't realize that SHIT ISN'T FREE. There is always a cost and we are just starting to pay the price. 

Look at liberal states like NY, CT and CA whom have the most generous public employee compensation and overall social welfare programs. Guess where gas prices are the highest in the country? Where do you think the gas taxes go? Take a look at this chart http://www.api.org/Oil-and-Natural-Gas-Overview/Industry-Economics/~/med... spans to property tax, state income tax, and everything else.

And ya know what really diddles my fuckin' strings? These stupid celebrities raising all this awareness in places like Darfur when entire communities in Detroit are getting buldozed, and families and children are starving in our own back yard. And what do they want? The fucking government to get involved. I'm gona' have a fuckin' stroke if I continue so I'm done.

 

 

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:02 | 2271077 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

The answer is nobody has any friggin idea where their taxes go

which is precisely why they should stop paying them

Washington is a wastebin of puss nobody in the nation wants, respects or will ever need

Cut the suckers adrift, stop paying your taxes, you know it's the sensible/sane option. End of

DC RIP

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:21 | 2271081 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I made a mistake with the link I posted. The working link is below.

http://www.api.org/Oil-and-Natural-Gas-Overview/Industry-Economics/~/med...

And if you live in CA, CT, or NY you should demand that your politicians lower the state gas tax so you can enjoy $3.55 per gallon like I do. They could do it overnight, but they'll blame speculators or some other entity other than their own profligacy

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:24 | 2271289 Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

You're enjoying $3.55 gallon gas?  What am I missing?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:33 | 2271677 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

About 54 cents...

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:05 | 2271082 leathaface
leathaface's picture

Ever hear some fucking dolt say "the government will pay for it" or "the government should pay for it"?

Work at a financial company and some girl w/ a masters said that all schooling should be free.  And i said, who's gonna pay for that?  Well you get the rest...

Blows my mind how people dont know where the govt steals their money from

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:11 | 2271090 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

we are detached from the real world

..because we don't think about much deeper than a pizza base

too easy to slob, switch the box on, watch CNBC and flick popcorn at Beccy Quick and Steve Liesman all night

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:22 | 2271098 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Don't even get me started on fucking schooling. I'm not going there today.

What about healthcare? Oh yea, everyone will have healthcare, the government will pay for it.

How many Americans have read the first three words of the Constitution? WE THE PEOPLE.

Guess who's gona' pay for all this "free" schooling and "free" healthcare?

WE THE PEOPLE.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:54 | 2271366 Likstane
Likstane's picture

I thought you were avoiding a stroke.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:53 | 2271549 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I never said I was having a stroke but that the occurence was possible if I continued.

I continued and didn't have one. Any other stupid fucking questions?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:14 | 2271628 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Give me a minute...

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:59 | 2271752 akak
akak's picture

Any other stupid fucking questions?

When you get fucked, do you (and your partner) have a problem with that nasty frothy Santorum, or do you butt-douche first?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:09 | 2271953 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

"Any other stupid fucking questions?"

Wait wait, hold hold, aaaa nope. Help me out here MDB. 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:57 | 2272143 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I continued and didn't have one. Any other stupid fucking questions?

Well, since you asked... How many Geithners does it take to screw in a tax-payer?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 03:55 | 2272437 Likstane
Likstane's picture

w d y p u a r ?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:56 | 2271201 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Taxpayer is not bailing out anyone, it is anyone who owns cash or cash equivalents.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:16 | 2271268 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Sorry to see Davy ride the Last train to Clarksville, but people are sofa king STUPID they have no idea what is going on. Just keep driving, keep working, paying taxes, yeah your mortgage will go down,, ha ha ha ha 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:41 | 2271333 dolph9
dolph9's picture

The money "comes from" fossil fuels, in particular oil.  As long as there's more out there to burn, there's more money available to somebody, somewhere.

Oil gives money it's moneyness.  But this standard is breaking down, which is why the central banks are now destroying the moneyness of money by printing it to oblivion.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:19 | 2272663 Antipodeus
Antipodeus's picture

Dearest, darling bobby. you left out ...

 

"AND GET OFF THE FRIGGIN' LAWN!!"


Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:04 | 2271080 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Math... Invented by the chinese NOT the germans... They just Invented nuclear bombs with it...

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:08 | 2271087 trying to make ...
trying to make sense of it all's picture

Newbie here. Just annoyed and could use some help.  My Obomabot brother just emailed me an article comparing Obama spending with Reagan spending.  Seems like more propaganda to me, but ZH'ers always surprise me.  Any help with a response?  http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/03/obamas-spending-record-more-conservative-than-reagans.html

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:44 | 2271168 dannyboy
dannyboy's picture

Put it this way, in primary school if you got in a fight and some kid punched you. It hurt abit, but thats coz you were about the same size, now if the same 8 year old punched you. You would laugh it off, you wouldnt feel it.

Now your all grown up and a 6ft 10 massive black dude just smacked you with a 2x4 in the jaw.

Relatively as per-capita that may be right (I only briefly looked at it). But under Reagan the deficits where roughly a few hundred billion (lolz remember those days)

http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php

The graph at the bottom is pretty good.

US Debt clock, gg.

http://www.shadowstats.com/

And on the right hand side, there is a search function. Type in obama, budget, deficit and you will get an array of fun.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 00:59 | 2272271 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

For starters, that bar graph is complete and utter unsourced crap. Follow it back to this "Mark Thoma" character who originated it, no sources are given whatsoever. The "author" provides no links or references to his source material, by all means go look for it and good luck finding anything.

Its a bullshit scale- "Annualized growth in real per capita spending"? WTF kind of ridiculous metric is that, and what is the precise definition he uses in the context of that bar graph? Where does he get the spending figures from- they can very considerably from agency to agency. OMB? CBO? Uranus? He certainly doesnt tell you.  Is this inflation adjusted? Who knows? Does the author count expenditure in the year it was made, or by the President legislation passed under? He doesnt say. If it were worth a hill of beans the guy would link to his source materials and explain himself clearly- he does not at which point one should always be suspicious that the source was someones posterior.

The very concept of comparing per capita spending is specious- the important question is can the spending be covered by revenue.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 10:31 | 2273055 Yankee.go.home
Yankee.go.home's picture

You used the word very instead of vary. Therefore everything you say must be false.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:30 | 2271109 Cdad
Cdad's picture

 

 

 

 

For months, I walked this quiet plain without the noise of Moloch's BlowHorn in my ear. I had thrown my electronic visual gear into the dumpster. I was happy!  Happy like a fat hamster, happy like sexing all of Hollywood in an electric New York fuckin' minute...remotely!  Happy like selling something priced for stupid!  Happy like a good Cheeseburger [@NOT$MCD]! 

 But as men do when walking in unknown places, I stumbled upon a radio signal reaching me on a windless and cloudless night.  At first crackling with a touch of static, enough that it was unfamiliar, I listened quietly to the sound that would, soon enough, shatter my solitude, my fortress and desolate plain.

 Quietly at first, but then the quickening...Fucking Moloch BlowHorn with it's all about apple! Moloch with "the REITs are CHEAP!" huh?  Moloch with its BlackRock ghoul scaring people away from cash! huh?  Moloch with historically low multiples in perpetuity!  Moloch ignoring historically RECORD BREAKING SOVEREIGN DEFAULTS!  Moloch ignoring WAR!  Moloch ignoring debilitating GASOLINE UP THE SCHPINCTER! Moloch perpetual bailouts required!  Moloch ignoring that...that no one wants what it is selling STILL!

 Fuck Moloch's BlowHorn! 

 I stomp the HF into the sand.  I walk again.  And I am happy like a BlowHorn free fucking horny hamster just a few clicks behind some sweet female hamster ass on the wind!

 Fuck CNBC and its perpetual desperate act, and all of the entities behind that silk screen pushing Moloch reasons for owning equities...as everyone and his cousins, 1st through 3rd, prefer ANY OTHER ASSET CLASS to what Moloch is pitching!

 Just fucking DIE ALREADY CNBC!

 

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:37 | 2271492 CPL
CPL's picture

Fantastic Rant.   Carry on good sir.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:00 | 2271762 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"Moloch's BlowHorn"  LOL.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:33 | 2272057 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Cdad, now that is a good rant, keep the blow horn hammering down. +1000 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:25 | 2271112 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

"Required bailout cost - SPAIN: 29 billion Euros"

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.........................HAH!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:28 | 2271124 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

The bailouts according to Ben: It's like having a huge Discover Card: The more we bail, the bigger profit we make!!!!!!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:32 | 2271135 dannyboy
dannyboy's picture

Primary school maths, Btchz.

But seriously that maths is pathetic, the farce is beyond a joke. It's like they are all in a room killing themselves laughing seeing how much rubbish they can put out before people begin to notice.

TIRED of this.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:40 | 2271156 European American
European American's picture

 


"And Why Taxpayers Will Be On The Hook Until The End"

 

Man, I'm glad I opted out of that ponzi scheme, i.e. volunteering my hard earned dollars supporting criminals, years ago.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:43 | 2271165 booboo
booboo's picture

627.00, hell I can write a check for that

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:48 | 2271178 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

If the entire system must be replaced by "Free Market" forces a natural death and birth cycle. So be it.

However if it is all... mythical skittle dollars... I don't want em because it will be a wheel barrow to buy lunch as happened in the 30's Germany. And to our own Nation after we dropped the "Continental" Hence the saying Not worth a continental.

Hell, we have been through several changes not that long ago of our entire financial system. Most notably the Federal Soldiers paid in Greenback dollars so that the Gold shipments will be safer.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 19:44 | 2271342 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

BAILOUT KAPITALISM

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:11 | 2271616 t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

WB7, I am in your debt, sir... 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:33 | 2271680 dannyboy
dannyboy's picture

Y u no Stalin instead of marx x2?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:00 | 2271766 akak
akak's picture

Engels is the second Marx --- the third one, I think, is Zeppo.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 00:09 | 2272152 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

sigh... I want my images to show inline in the thread-stream ...

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:06 | 2271400 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

I was sitting here reading Zero Hedge enjoying the finest rag weed $35 dollars can buy as I often times do, and I always wonder the following after reading articles and comments: Does Ben Bernanke read Zero Hedge? Does Jamie Dimon tune into the Keiser Report? Does Blythe Masters troll on TF Metals Report?

Just wondering.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:16 | 2271428 1eyedman
1eyedman's picture

yes they do.  thats how they are able to stymy any 'bear' movement with at 20 point spx gap up just as the short term technicals look to fail.   

funny how all technicals are buried in massive 'bull' stance; there is no hint of failure or exhaustion....just a bit, its just a short sharp shock.....

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:11 | 2271618 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

yes & no, i would say, sis

the chairsatan probably does read zH;  he's intelligent and likes to read and is is "experimenting with more open FED communications" so that would indicate a yes for him imo, since he gets some fuking honest feedback here!

not so sure about how the others might roll...

...speaking of which...  L0L!!!

 

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:12 | 2271802 dannyboy
dannyboy's picture

Absolutely, they all do. As they don't do much themselves, either they are to lazy or don't know what they are doing. Quite often they show their collective stupidity, but instead of going there here is a recent example of it with Greece.

JP Morgan Advises Its Clients To Read Zero Hedge Three Weeks Ago

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:01 | 2272558 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

lol; missed that one...illness 3 diiferent ran thru my household all last month into the first week of this

...I've missed alot...Thanks...

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:14 | 2271422 1eyedman
1eyedman's picture

but as we have seen 'taking losses' is not in the vernacular of the current generation runnting the show.  the baby boomer are horrible losers and cannot stomach the idea that something they collectively did, didnt work out.  

in the old days, back when captialism existed, companies would take risks and some would lose and some would win.

today losses are doled out to taxpayers and the same players get to keep trying.  

dimon has now crossed the rubicon of hubris.  lets watch as he attempts to cross the river styx, coming back out.  

'back of envelope' is the phrase of the day it appears.  on the back of my envelope i see that BAC, MS, RF, Suntrust all have negative book values, if using market prices for their 'assets'.  

i do enjoy the poetry of the icelandic (and swedes, a bit) being their viking selves and saying 'suck it' to the western banking oligopily.

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:29 | 2271467 847328_3527
847328_3527's picture

All the zero down houses bought by Deadbeats who now live in them for free by not paying their mortgages screw the Middle Class who have to pay the bills for them.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:45 | 2271515 oogs66
oogs66's picture

so true, they have no clue of the actual costs, let alone opportunity costs, but they push ahead anyways with the "save it now" approach

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:26 | 2272010 Outlaw Of The W...
Outlaw Of The Wasteland's picture

jewish math.......Trading worthless paper and promises for gold and labor is what they do.

I think their time is about up.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:59 | 2272148 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

I believe they have all but given up on taxes. Taxes attract attention and get politicians fired. Borrowing works better but when that runs out they will just print. You guys all know this so worrying about the children is BS. It will be the first guy to change dollars for stuff that does the best. 

I see a future of 500 trillion dollars bills in the gutter....this time they don't say 'Zimbabwe' but USA. That will be the end. First guys will be fine and all who hold the last of the paper will become litterers.

Another ending is the sudden collapse in which the big bankers panic and try to get stuff in a hurry.  It won't go very well though because the price of stuff would rise too fast for a market to function. So a slow orderly loss of dollar value is the preferred exit strategy. Even this way it is hard to get trillions and trillions of stuff so the elites use their infinite supply of money to build tunnels and underground bunkers (if Jessie Ventura is to be believed). What insane plan they have for the dollar collapse is anybody's guess but collapses happen so often that there must be a "Rich Guys Guide to Currency Collapse" at the Davos bookstore. Maybe this is when they get the population under control to that magic 500,000,000 level. I really don't have time to do this crazy conspiracy shit but when one sees things that do not make sense one then tries to expand the universe of possibilities the MIGHT make sense.

If anyone knows what the global elite are plannng please let me know so I can worry about something else.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 02:15 | 2272350 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Getting rid of cash will help with the tax collection, eh?

Already being considered in Sweden:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/sweden-eu-cash-cashless-money_n...

So many "hearts and flowers" reasons, all for the "good of the people".

Yeah sure.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 02:56 | 2272397 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Yeah, until the end (which may be sooner than later) I'll take "bail" the dinghy rather than the whole ship which is hosting more rats than people. As far as the hook, I'd tie it to a rope and find a banksters neck and a deep bay.

OK then, when should I expect homeland security be knocking at/down my door?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 02:57 | 2272398 RopeADope
RopeADope's picture

Last time I checked the cost of bailing out the PIIGS is the same as not bailing them out as the underlying reality has not and never will change. All that is being done is moving the cost to a different time period.

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