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The Bailout Of The US Postal Service Begins: Cost To Taxpayers - $110,000 Per Union Vote "Saved Or Gained"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

A week ago, when reading between the lines of what had heretofore been considered an inevitable USPS episode of austerity in which hundreds of thousands of labor union workers would lose their jobs but in the process would streamline a thoroughly outdated and inefficient US Postal Office bureaucracy, we asked if a US Postal Service bailout was imminent, focusing on the following: "Enter Ron Bloom, Lazard, and the very same crew that ended up getting a taxpayer funded bailout for GM. From the WSJ: "The Postal Service's proposal to close thousands of post offices and cut back on the number of days that mail is delivered "won't work" and would accelerate the agency's decline, according to the six-page report by Ron Bloom, President Barack Obama's former auto czar, and investment bank Lazard Ltd., LAZ who were hired by the union in October." That's right: after all the huffing and puffing about "sacrifice" and austerity, the labor union took one long look at the only option... and asked what other option is there." The other option, it turns out courtesy of news from AP, is the first of many incremental bail outs of the US Postal Office, better known in pre-election circles as hundreds of thousands of unionized votes up for the taking, and which could be bought for the low low price of $11 billion in taxpayer money, or $110,000 per vote! And so the latest bailout of yet another terminally inefficient and outdated government entity begins.

 From AP:

The Senate offered a lifeline to the nearly bankrupt U.S. Postal Service on Wednesday, voting to give the struggling agency an $11 billion cash infusion while delaying controversial decisions on closing post offices and ending Saturday delivery.

 

By a 62-37 vote, senators approved a measure which had divided mostly along rural-urban lines. Over the past several weeks, the bill was modified more than a dozen times, adding new restrictions on closings and cuts to service that rural-state senators said would hurt their communities the most.

 

The issue now goes to the House, which has yet to consider a separate version of the bill.

 

"The Postal Service is an iconic American institution that still delivers 500 million pieces of mail a day and sustains 8 million jobs," said Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., a bill co-sponsor. "This legislation will change the USPS so it can stay alive throughout the 21st century."

One would think that the USPS workers would be delighted as a result... One would be wrong. This is merely the beginning:

The mail agency, however, criticized the measure, saying it fell far short in stemming financial losses. Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe said if the bill became law, he would have to return to Congress in a few years to get emergency help.

 

"It is totally inappropriate in these economic times to keep unneeded facilities open. There is simply not enough mail in our system today," the Postal Service's board of governors said in a statement. "It is also inappropriate to delay the implementation of five-day delivery."

In the meantime, we can now add another zombie to the endless list of insolvent organizations on the government's dole, whose only saving grace is it has nearly half a million votes that can be bought by the highest bidder.

The Senate bill would halt the immediate closing of up to 252 mail-processing centers and 3,700 post offices, part of a postal cost-cutting plan to save some $6.5 billion a year. Donahoe previously said he would begin making cuts after May 15 if Congress didn't act, warning that the agency could run out of money this fall.

 

The measure would save about half the mail processing centers the Postal Service wants to close, from 252 to 125, allowing more areas to maintain overnight first-class mail delivery for at least three more years. It also would bar any shutdowns before the November elections, protect rural post offices for at least a year, give affected communities new avenues to appeal closing decisions and forbid cuts to Saturday delivery for two years.

 

At the same time, the Postal Service would get an infusion of roughly $11 billion, basically a refund of overpayments made in previous years to a federal retirement fund. That would give it immediate liquidity to pay down debt to forestall bankruptcy and finance buyouts to 100,000 postal employees.

 

The agency could make smaller annual payments into a future retiree health benefits account, gain flexibility in trimming worker compensation benefits and find additional ways to raise postal revenue under a new chief innovation officer.

And some more details on the bailout:

—Place a one-year moratorium on closing rural post offices and then require the mail agency to take rural issues into special consideration. Post offices generally would be protected from closure if the closest mail facility was more than 10 miles away. The exception would be cases in which there was no significant community opposition.

 

—Shut five of the seven post offices on the Capitol grounds.

 

—Take into account the impact on small businesses before closing mail facilities.

 

—Cap postal executive pay through 2015 at $199,000, the same level as a Cabinet secretary, and create a system under which the top people at the Postal Service are paid based on performance.

 

The Senate bill faces an uncertain future. The House version, approved in committee last year, would create a national commission with the power to scrap no-layoff clauses in employee contracts and make other wide-ranging cuts.

 

"This of course kicks the can down the road," complained Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who unsuccessfully pushed for a commission in the Senate bill. He said the current proposal failed to address longer-term fixes and delayed major decisions. "We'll be on the floor in two years addressing this issue again, because it is not a solution."

 

Noting that more people every year are switching to the Internet to send letters and pay bills, Donahoe called the Postal Service's business model "broken." The agency has estimated that the Senate bill would only provide it enough liquidity to continue operating for two years or three years.

At stake are more than 100,000 jobs, The agency, $12 billion in debt, says it could run out of money for day-to-day operations as soon as this fall, forcing it to shut down some of its services. The mail agency forecasts a record $14.1 billion loss by the end of this year; without changes, it says annual losses will exceed $21 billion by 2016.

Yeah, yeah. In the meantime all that matters is that about 100,000 votes have been secured for the incumbent candidate. The cost? Only $11 billion, or $110,000 per vote. To all taxpayers.

 


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Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:18 | Link to Comment becky quick and...
becky quick and her beautiful mouth's picture

but, but, but, the post office runs off its own accord and doesn't take any taxpayer money! it's entirely self-funded!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:23 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Changed entirely to partially......there....fixed it for you.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:37 | Link to Comment SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

How bout you pay me the 110 Grrr and I figure out something better to do with it?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:44 | Link to Comment Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Is that Cramer as a postman?

Fits.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:10 | Link to Comment Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Yes, it is Jim Cramer.  Cramer is as stale (past their prime) as the business model of the post office is.

Somebody wake the dog and have him chase the clown away!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:26 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

1) Jack up junk mail rates so advertisers have to be more selective about what trash they stuff in my mailbox

2) Deliver 3 days a week instead of 6, and cut the workforce in half.

Done.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:37 | Link to Comment greensnacks
greensnacks's picture

167.9 billion — number of mail pieces processed in 2011 by usps.

 

$0.10 stamp increase coming?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:12 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yeah, probably an increase coming.   Thinking back to when the first postage stamps were issued in the U. S. the denominations were 5c and 10c.   That was a very big expense.  Not sure what that amount would be in 2012 dollars, but it would certainly not be 45c.   I'm amazed that something gets delivered from East Podunk to Nome, AK at that price.   If there really is subsidy of the USPS it is still cheap.  No way any private company will deliver at those prices.   Junk mail pays for the low First Class rates so I don't moan about the junk in my mailbox all that much.   I don't like commercials on TV either, but the functions are similar.   All in all, I think a decision needs to be made as to whether the USPS serves a national function, and whether it should actually be measured by normal business models.  We don't do that with the military, or wiring homes out in the boonies to the electrical grid.  Talk about your subsidies!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:08 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Hi Rocky

Time to stock up on Forever stamps. They may be a very good investment some day.

Until the PO revokes their "Forever" that is and we become just another creditor waiting for a few cents on our dollar.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Hey, CD.   Since I'm a dealer I don't need to stock up on new stamps.  I've got several thousand dollars worth of pre-1950 stamps that I use to mail out my customer packages.  It sure takes a lot of low-value stamps to equal a Priority Mail rate!  You can buy discount postage all day long on eBay, and I get phone calls from people all over the country wanting to sell their mint stamp accumulations.  Regular buy prices are 50 to 75% of face value.  What the hell would I want to buy Forever Stamps for!?  Now, you, on the other hand....  Gopher it.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 20:31 | Link to Comment PrinceDraxx
PrinceDraxx's picture

About 2-5 dollars depending on whatever math you want to use and from when in history too. For rural routes, they should carry mail with enough postage on it to at least pay their wages and car allowance. If they don't have it today just wait the junk mail will finally get it there. lol

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:08 | Link to Comment mr. mirbach
mr. mirbach's picture

Put all of the mailboxes on one side of the street or bunch them together in cul-de-sacs. 

 

One reason that the USPS is so expensive is that union ruiles stipulate a 5 day work week, so Saturday delivery requires 1000's of part-timers all with benefits. Also I'd venture to guess the retiree payroll exceeds active employee payroll.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:01 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Another poorly run govt. program.

The govt. needs to bail out the USPS to keep employees paying for pensions so they don't need to do it.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:01 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Another poorly run govt. program.

The govt. needs to bail out the USPS to keep employees paying for pensions so they don't need to do it.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:42 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The post office was killed so that BROWN and FED ex could prosper. Also, snail mail in general is a dying breed except for those voluminous advert. packs. 

Plus, the more in trouble an agency is, the more likely it is to finally give in to coercion. Adn who says Union leaders in the PU are not from the same gene-pool as Jimmy Hoffa? I unserstand some unionistas will get their panties in a twist and yes, Unionism was a necessary bulwark to corporatism, but noticed Union work and leadership lately?

Perhaps a giant privatisation is in the offing.

Did you all know for eg. that a Spanish company called Scytl  will be counting for 26 states this coming Nov.?

" privilege and responsibility of facilitating American elections in 900 municipalities and 26 states. "

Privatize to socialize seems to be the global mantra. India has a giant Pubic(!!!) Sector, legacy of the Brits and a huge stone around India's collective neck. 

Tough one...

ori

/re-membering-deepwater-horizon-

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:57 | Link to Comment Nels
Nels's picture

The post office was killed so that BROWN and FED ex could prosper.

You have your head on backwards today.  Brown and FEDEX might have killed the postoffice, but they prospered because they did what the Post Office would not or could not do.

The internet is killing off the rest of the post office, i.e. first class mail and magazine delivery.  But the internet was certainly not created with the post office in mind.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:01 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Nels, are you kidding me? You really believe the story of the FedEx chairman who went to Vegas and gambled the company's retirement money to win his next payroll? 

Those are two of the biggest insider companies. Giant Hubs and spokes of Trans-portation (Hey canuckhead, note marine terminology applied to air and land trans-port.... get something? Light bulb going off? UCC everywhere?).

Supply chian is everything for the controllers Nels. In peace-time and war. Key!

This is exactly how it was intended to be. Or .gov would have modernized and "relaxed" the Post Office system (better working conditions, less repetitive movements, brighter uniforms? Feeling Blue today?).....

All as per plan stan, all as per plan.

ori

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:09 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Oh regional Indian

"Or .gov would have modernized and "relaxed" the Post Office system (better working conditions, less repetitive movements"

They already have sorting machines, how much more can you cut down repetitive motion when dealing with mail?

I have worked in worse conditions for less pay and bennies.

 

"brighter uniforms? Feeling Blue today?)....."

I assume Blue is the color of government in the US. Cops and Firemen have Blue uniforms, Postmen Blue uniforms.

Blue used to send the message government works for you.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:13 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

They have a monopoly on use of the mailbox.

Something the others have fought over for decades,

surely if they were purposefully killing the USPS off they would have given in to that long ago.

But don't let that or the obviousness of the sky being blue get in the way.

NYC OTB system killed by same people despite doing $1.1billion in handle a year.

No different here, not even in the slightest.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:30 | Link to Comment ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

"But the internet was certainly not created with the post office in mind."

OH YES IT WAS!!!  I created the internet because all of the inefficient, gas/diesel guzzling, carbon dioxide emitting, global warming vehicles the USPS uses all over my green country.  My plan is working!!

Sincerely, Al Gore

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 14:19 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:40 | Link to Comment dirtbagger
dirtbagger's picture

Nels got it mostly right.  It was internet porn that killed the Post Office.  That is why you only see 1 worker at the counter with 8 registers.  The rest are in back watching the action.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:57 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

 
   "a Spanish company called Scytl will be counting for 26 states this coming Nov?"

It had to be outsourced because the American education system no longer teaches counting. The Administration is also calling for international tenders to find someone who can draft a budget. The EU is a hot favourite to win the tender, after all their recent budget successes.

*snort*

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:25 | Link to Comment Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Don't forget that if USPS is privatized, whoever takes over will get their greedy little fingers on the billions in pre-funded health care and pension funds. That's what this is all about.

http://www.vltp.net/alec/aleckoch-cabal-pursuing-privatization-postal-service-ups-fedex

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 20:38 | Link to Comment PrinceDraxx
PrinceDraxx's picture

Hell, their pension funds are unfunded just like everyone else's.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Tramp Stamper
Tramp Stamper's picture

Scylt is owned by George Soros

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:24 | Link to Comment ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

"Did you all know for eg. that a Spanish company called Scytl  will be counting for 26 states this coming Nov.?

" privilege and responsibility of facilitating American elections in 900 municipalities and 26 states. ""

 

Ahhhh and the puncline - Who owns Scytl? None other than Soros I believe. Can you say rigged? I thought you could. 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:58 | Link to Comment jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

A while back someone said a bailout of the Postal Service will be the final nail in the coffin... Can't argue there

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:03 | Link to Comment Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I'll take the Post Office over the Military/Security complex, despite the problems.  I put a letter or bill in the mail and it has ALWAYS been delivered (my experience).  But the MIC can't get a plane up in a timely manner on 9/11 and otherwise has to create 'terrorist' events to justify their jobs.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:21 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Good Lord die already!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:38 | Link to Comment spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

+1  cant wait until we have to bailout all of the worlds retailers because online shopping ruined their business too, we better read the fine print in any legislation that comes out of this as precedent will have been set.  and, there is not one party that would allow the USPS to fail, so it doesn't matter who is in office.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:07 | Link to Comment TonyCoitus
TonyCoitus's picture

As a self funded operation, I didn't really think much about trashing 95% of my mail without even opening.

With the bailout, every piece of junk mail is costing us money.

They should raise prices to whatever they need to self fund this piece of shit "business".

What a fucktard bunch of government beauracrats!

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

TonyCoitus

"With the bailout, every piece of junk mail is costing us money."

How is that? Junk mail pays to be posted. I'm not sure what bulk rates are, but it ain't going out for free.

When you consider the size of those bulk posts someone is tossing out fairly large bucks for them.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:24 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

I don't think you understand the role of junk mail.  It only exists to provide volume for the Post Office, otherwise they could not justify the infrastructure and employee expense.  If they only were delivering important shit that someone paid first-class postage for, they could be a fraction of their size, and deliver 3 times a week instead of 6.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:36 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

No mas, sooner or later, the USPS WILL only be delivering important (legal notices, etc) 1st-class letters.  The rest will either fall by the wayside, or get picked up by UPS/FedEx/etc.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:30 | Link to Comment TonyCoitus
TonyCoitus's picture

If the USPS can't make money delivering junk mail to our homes, then they should raise their price so tax payer subsidies are not required.  If the junk mailer outfits can't afford it, too bad for them, no loss for us.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 20:58 | Link to Comment PrinceDraxx
PrinceDraxx's picture

less than it ought to be paying since if it wasn't for the junk mail they could get rid of at least half the sorting centers and cut workers  in half as well. Unfortunately, you'll never see junk mail senders paying full price for the garbage that is delivered without fail to my mailbox. As for how good they are: I'm in marketing and I send out our advertising packages. 7 years ago, the package went out First class for $1.03 I think it was, now it is $1.70. Tell me all about their efficiency: Mail comes back marked NMR...no mail receptacle. I left off the suite number on one particular package and the mail person could find them, they infact inhabited the entire second floor of the building. I see the laziness and stupidity of these highly trained(oops, highly paid) morons who could never get my mail in my mailbox, although my name and house number were clearly ledgible on the approach side of the box.

These days, I can walk in the local PO and find a line of people clear out the door moving forward one at a time since all but one of the drones who inhabit those type jobs working as slowly as possible. You ask, where's you helpers and the reply invariably is on break. Should one of the co-loafers come back, the other leaves. A relatively small PO but 4 registers should anyone care. Oh, also I quit going in til almost 5 pm. If you never believed the old saw of "If you don't think the dead come alive you haven't been here at quiting time. At 10 til five no matter the length of the line every customer has been served by 5pm. Fucking ridiculous.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:21 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

The insanity continues and until it all blows up it will be status quo. No change. Move on.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:13 | Link to Comment GS-DickinDaMuppets
GS-DickinDaMuppets's picture

"The insanity continues and until it all blows up it will be status quo. No change. Move on."

You are correct - I mail small packages everyday at my local post office in a small town in Texas - I know every person in there and they ALWAYS ask me if my packages contain anything that is Harmful, Explosive, Corrosive, Spoilable, etc. ad nauseum. Now plain ole common sense says that if I was a terrorist or criminal mailing deadly packages, do they really think I am going to say "Why yes, this package contains the Ebola virus with a small explosive that will blow up the person that opens it and spread the deadly Ebola virus for miles around".  It is just another BS "feel good", bureaucratic rule that does absolutely nothing, except expand the time it takes to mail a package. ANYTHING that is run by the government is a total disaster and produces nothing but waste and corruption.  I love my mommy, the government.

Protect what you have the "Night Cometh"

...doing GOD's work....DickinDaMuppets

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:23 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The funny thing about those quasi Federal agencies that really aren't Federal....until they are........is that they always come back to bite you and me. If it's off the Federal books we don't need to count it's liabilities as Federal ones.

Sort of like Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. Or Social Security, come to think about it. I seem to remember some sort of SS Trust Fund that's really a black hole of Gvt debt.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:24 | Link to Comment wisefool
wisefool's picture

post office was in the original constitution.

TARP bailouts, much less the IRS .... not so much.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:35 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Yep, but post office does not mean door to door delivery to every address in the nation.

Just as "general welfare" did not mean the government telling you how much water your toilet can use or what light bulbs you can buy.

Or "income" did not equal wages.

Just as "zero grams trans fat" does not mean "no trans fat" but merely less than 0.5 g trans fat per serving.

Lose the definitions of words, lose everything.

pods

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:42 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

<3

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:43 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

WAnt to really krinkle the underwear of a hard-core "small government" Republican?  Send them some articles about how light bulb and toilet water restrictions were signed into law by BUSH! 

As a side-note - I see no difference between liberal Obama or liberal Bush.  They both want to force their respective form of government on the population.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:05 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Wait - help me understand the link between the concept of "small government" and light bulb/toilet water restrictions?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:16 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Opps

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:16 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Many Republican voters are arguing for a small government (i.e. the Tea Party).  Many of those Republicans toe the party line and will defend the actions of Bush in comparisson to the actions of Obama.  Many of those Republican voters will also claim that government actions of telling the population what type of lightbulb they are allowed to use and how much water is allowed to be used to flush one's toilet are indicative of a liberal agenda of government control of every minutia of our lives.  Too much government these small-government Republicans will decree.  I agree with that assessment oftoo much centralized governmental control.

These Republican voters miss completely the fact that these governmental controls of increasingly every action of our life came under the authorized signature of President Bush. 

I guess I am was just tryingto point out the disconnect and I often try to do that when a Republican complains of the liberal agenda of governmental control.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:22 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Government control is not a liberal agenda - it's the only agenda.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:32 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

oops -24,213-mainly for projection but also for the narrow POV.

Governance moves towards more not less,

takes the unusual individual to not only stop that movement but reverse it.

Your ideas that Bush did this, while whomever did that is childish.

The day they set up shop in DC is the day they started oppressing the people,

and it has only gotten worse with time with few exceptions.

 

 

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:35 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Funny thing is the liberals of the day got it?

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...[we will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers... And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for[ another]... till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression. "

 

-Jefferson

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:40 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

What was the definition of a "liberal" in Jefferson's time?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:41 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

ClueBat:  Liberal != Socialist/Progressive

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I agree.  THe example is used to shake those that believe in the blue/red team bullshit and to shake them from their conditioning.  In order to do that, I often have to point out that is wasn't the other team that di this or that, but their team.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:15 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

+32,124.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Nels
Nels's picture

I never met a small-government republican who thought either Bush was a member of their group. The 'compassionate' modifier for conservatism is pretty much seen as defined to be 'not at all'.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:19 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Maybe the recently ostracized Huntsman is right -- there should be a third party, at least.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:51 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You highlight a very simple concept that is always overlooked by the general population as well as many here on ZH. Control the language and you control the people. Even among those who think they are aware of what is going on.

Since we use the words of our enemy we think in terms that are manipulated by our enemy. This is very difficult to avoid if we aren't constantly diligent with our own self examination. Question EVERYTHING.......beginning with ourselves. Not just what we think or believe, but WHY.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:06 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Where do you think I acquired this skill?

<hat tip to CD>

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 14:03 | Link to Comment Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

That's called the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. 

For instance, when I repeatedly refer to libertardians as "doomer goons" the intention is that, over time, you'll envision libertarians as idiotic, smelly oafs.  

MF

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:09 | Link to Comment PrinceDraxx
PrinceDraxx's picture

Gosh, you must be the idiotic, smelly oaf look at the reds. Of course, I'll probably run you a close second, since trolls have their friends downcheck any one who offends them. Sorry, did I actually say friends? Odd way to describe littermates from the pig pen of liberals. Have I offended you yet?

I tried, but I'm nowhere near as good at it as Nancy and Harry and Obummer.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:46 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Very well said pods.

Especially the last line...

ori

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I love the sound of stretching hemp in the morning. Sounds like justice.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:10 | Link to Comment PrinceDraxx
PrinceDraxx's picture

I think the singing of piano wire or perhaps the Kiss of Madame Guillotine.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:40 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

That "God-Damned piece of paper" only matters when convenient.  When it is not convenient that piece of paper doesn't factor in.  Selective enforcement of the "law" has been the modus operandi for far too long, yet some will still argue for more ruling capabilities of our rulers.  The "there ought to be a law against that" group of the population, minus the governing crowd of politicians, is always well-meaning, yet they fail to look at the consequences and the effect of the two-tiered legal system.

The idea of anarcho-capitalism and a non-existent government looks more and more appealing to many more people each day, including myself.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:09 | Link to Comment SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"That "God-Damned piece of paper" only matters when convenient.  When it is not convenient that piece of paper doesn't factor in....The idea of anarcho-capitalism and a non-existent government looks more and more appealing to many more people each day, including myself."

 

While "the idea of anarcho-capitalism and a non-existent government" may seem appealing, the question I have is how we'd get there, and who would take over, in other words, what will the reset look like, because make no mistake, leadership will arise and assert itself, and they would hearken to certain 'guiding principles' from history.  Not that current leadership is adhering to the USC much, true enough.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:33 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

How we get there is through withdrawal of consent.  Taxation, court dates, traffic tickets, etc.  The problem with withdrawal of consent is that, under our current system, many perceive there are too many enforcers that will sooner or later demand consent through threat of force or caging that dissenter in prison or jail.  Additionally, there are too many in our current population that fears reprisal from the actions of ignoring their rulers based on the perception of more enforcers than withdrawers (if that is even a word).

Getting others to understand that the majority of their daily actions in life are derived by their own will and rule and can operate completely fine without said rulers is the key.  Only through example and being our own "beacon of shining light on the hill" will others see the possibility.  To be the example is to put oneself in a position of possible retribution by the state, but it is a choice one has to make.

Quite frankly, I believe the way society would look without rulers would look much like it does today in our daily life, but without the constant extortion and fear of being locked in a cage for something that harmed no person or property.  The leaches of society would no longer have enforcers to enable their parasitic behavior that is sucking the wealth, freedom, and charity we are capable of achieving.  It seems to me that a non-governed society could indeed be the panacea of the most humane way of achieving a much greater prosperity for all in our local communities and actually helping to lift the poor out of their conditioned "need" for governmental assistance in every aspect of their life.

Of course, I am nuts and none of this seems achievable with the masses grabbing Uncle Sam's teats all of the time.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:38 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

because make no mistake, leadership will arise and assert itself,

A monopoly on the use of force is not a prerequisite for leadership. True leadership is provided by those with good ideas. Free individuals can chose to follow or not follow prospective leaders based on expectations of success.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:13 | Link to Comment Fiat Currency
Fiat Currency's picture

wisefool: "post office was in the original constitution."

 

I gave you a thumbs up for that. But I must have missed a memo ... when did you guys start following your constitution?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:33 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

...is that they always come back to bite you and me.

Like the Federal Reserve?

 

 

Want to learn about The Federal Reserve and The Bailout Game?  Read this book:

The Creature From Jekyll Island

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:34 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That's a good book and a must read.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:39 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Also I might add Eustace Mullins "Secrets of the Federal Reserve."

pods

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:50 | Link to Comment Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

And Hayek's "Road to Serfdom"

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:11 | Link to Comment SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

Ron Paul's "End the Fed"

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:35 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I always "see" the Federal Reserve as in a category of its very own.

It isn't a hidden obligation of the US Gvt. It owns the US Gvt....as well as you and me.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:43 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

That honour goes to the UN via the IMF CD.

How come so sporadic now?

ori

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:49 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I've been busy with Mrs. Cog (self) renovating our Armageddon hideout. Plan "B" bitches.

Almost done, just a few more weeks. Then you'll Shirley regret asking me where I've been when you can't get rid of me. :>)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:55 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Nice CD, nice.... we'll keep that on the hush hush now....

And don't call me Shirley!!!

ori

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:47 | Link to Comment Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Griffen's book is a real eye opener ...was for me anyway....a must read for everyone...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:32 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

When you consider this story, can you imagine the unwillingness of the political class to touch SS?  And why single out SS?  Can you count the number federal and state programs that actually are nothing more than entitlements?  Nobody can. 

They will print and tax.  That's the only answer they can live with.  4% to 8% inflation for as long as it takes.  30 years, if necessary.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:35 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

...4% to 8% inflation...

lol!  Ahhh, the optimism of youth.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:39 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I was thinking more along the lines of 100% inflation over 3 years minimum. And that's just to keep the US Gvt from falling into the black debt hole in year 4.

I tend to listen to John Williams from Shadow Stats about the hidden inflation rather than the BLS. But that's just me.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:41 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

I'm speculating that the US mint is simply waiting for Jimmy Carter to expire so they can don his mug on the $1 Billion note and start getting those into circulation.  That'd kick start the process right good.  ;)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:27 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

What? You aren't buying that nonsense about bills larger than $100 taken out of circulation to thwart money laundering are you? It was an inflation perception hedge.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:09 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

IMHO, first two years as 20%-25%. Then some correction, one or two years. Then... well, it really depends from the spending levels - as always.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:17 | Link to Comment Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

I agree with Cog since most food prices have doubles in the past three years...dark chocolate, bread, ...you name it.

I see 100% price rise again in th enext three years as John Williams and others have pointed out....good luck!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:48 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Let's just say they'll set inflation at an incremental level that will boil the frogs nicely, while keeping their problems under control.  BTW, 6% inflation for 30 years reduces the current dollar to 1/6 of it's current value.  Don't doubt the power of compounding. 

And don't doubt that our future is Argentina, not Japan.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:46 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Excellent response.  We shall see.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:29 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Don't cry for me Argentina...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:36 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Can you count the number federal and state programs that actually are nothing more than entitlements?

 

I say count the ones that aren't.  Prolly won't even run out of fingers. 

BTW - 4% to 8% inflation for 30 years is not only a pipe dream, the distance between the two vectors would qualify as alternate universes.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:46 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

It is worse than you think. Ask 10 mail carriers if they want Saturday off and a regular consistent schedule. The unions are not representing the workers, they are representing themselves. There are lots of union suits in the DC area.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:59 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

The unions are not representing the workers, they are representing themselves.

 

You don't think this is an unusual thing for unions, do you?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:22 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

"We'll be on the floor in two years addressing this issue again, because it is not a solution."

If old John McCain is still in Congress in two years time debating this issue again that just re-enforces that Japanization is actually best case scenario at this point. Step one is already complete: general apathy at the political cycle by a majority of the populace.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:22 | Link to Comment beaker
beaker's picture

Don't forget that the spouse and family members vote, too.  But hell, what's another $11 billion? (at this point)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Although I've always pledged to vote for Ron Paul, I would probably let my vote go for $100,000 after taxes. Better yet, make it in small unmarked bills so that I can quickly change it with my local gold and silver dealers. What they don't know is that some of us would doublecross them and STILL vote for Ron Paul....suckers!!!!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:25 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Just so you know, the USPS has been attempting to modernize for years.  Everything they attempt has been denied them by Congress.  The same Congress critters that accept donations from competing companies to deny the USPS any ability to modernize is now throwing them billions.  Go figure.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/279746/delivering-postal-service-re...

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:23 | Link to Comment Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Cliff Clavin for the WIN

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:41 | Link to Comment spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

WIM with JIM

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:24 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

Again the politicians will never cut any costs or expenses.....and the debt keeps getting bigger and bigger.....I hope there is a fight to the death on the next debt ceiling raise....

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:24 | Link to Comment Dagny Taggart
Dagny Taggart's picture

There are serious implications here... the postman is a person in your neighborhood. must.bail.out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YApVVllpJmM

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:09 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

That's a serious allegation there...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:24 | Link to Comment FubarNation
FubarNation's picture

Isn't the real story here that no one talks about is that Congress mandated that the USPS fund its pension waaaaaayyyyy ahead of schedule?  But doing so taking most of the $ made and squirrling it away for the pensions (actually though taking it and spending it like only the Dog Eater in Chief and his cronies can do) and strangling the USPS.

 

I'd like to know the real story here.  I do believe the USPS without this mandated early funding scheme would be making $.

 

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:12 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Scoff! You want the 'real' story, here!? Bonne Chance.

Take note that you are the first to refer to the incredibly salient point about how a profitable public business has been deliberately legislated into losses in order to bust its union...

No sir, here it's all

"... they're pointing out the enemy to keep you deaf and blind. They wanna suck your energy, incarcerate your mind..."-Mark Knopfler.

Publicly owned business legislated into losses: those greedy unions had it coming

Privately owned business fails because they suck: all regulation is onerous

You all caught up now?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:14 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Take note that you are the first to refer to the incredibly salient point about how a profitable public business has been deliberately unionized into losses in order to bust its business...

I know, dyslexia's a bitch to work with...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:06 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Haha! Don't worry, I'm thinking straight enough to recall our conversation regarding unions, during the course of which you outlined how you fit neatly into the second category I mentioned above....

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:07 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I believe that conversation primarily dealt with public unions. I am no fan of unions of any stripe, public or private. Public unions are nothing more than a malignant cancer on the public purse.

It is not my place to tell anyone how they manage the value of their labor with a private business. If queried however, I would be inclined to dissuade them of any collective-bargaining hive-mind notions.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:02 | Link to Comment amadeusb4
amadeusb4's picture

Ding ding ding!!! We have a winner.

USPS' pension funding obligation was a ticking time bomb planted at the USPS as part of a parting gift to the privatize crowd from Bush and Cheney.

What I would like to know is why does Tyler turn in these idiot freeper diatribes every couple of weeks.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:07 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I am pretty sure Obamacare has it's eye on the prize.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment Reptil
Reptil's picture

Yeah you nailed it....

DISAPPOINTING ZH, that this is not mentioned, though it was clearly spelled out in the comments of that post a week ago. Frankly... not mentioning that, means half a story, and it stinks.

WTF is going on here?

:-(

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 14:53 | Link to Comment ljag
ljag's picture

I thought it was cats they ate. Dogs too? The horrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrror!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:25 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

"The Postal Service is an iconic American institution...

 

And there you have it.  Being an American icon is reason enough to fork over $11 billion of unrepayable obligations imposed on citizens who won't be conceived for another 60 years...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:31 | Link to Comment LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

Will this effect the delivery of my Larry Flynt educational transcripts?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:37 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

no you have been reprieved for at least 2 more years .....cant you read ? .....well i guess you only look at pictures

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:01 | Link to Comment LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

Thanks. 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment ceedub
ceedub's picture

Who cares?  This country is 3/4 the way full of water and this is like getting a bucket and thining we are gonna save ourselves from sinking.

 

Bailout everyone and sink this bitch faster to get it over with, so we can start again.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:41 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I like the way you think!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 13:53 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I was in the post office mailing my tax returns this year...  so I chat up the USPS employee at the counter...  "so, I bet you guys are seeing a lot of downtrodden folks, having to pay taxes"...  yes!  Seeing a lot of them...  you know, my husband and I had to pay in too...  it seems like the government just wants too much from us.

FUCKING REALLY?  Either there is a manual out there advising them what to say to disgruntled customers (I thought I was being congenial) or there is some incredible misunderstanding out there...  maybe both.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:25 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

We are stuck in a bailout everything mentality. Why be fiscally responsible anymore? Just spend all the money and more, threaten to implode (like a crying baby) and Obama and Bernanke come to the rescue. 

States, there is a lesson to be learned here. Do the same. Just blow all the budgets and threaten to take down Washington with default. 

Wall Street, if your big, cook your books and threaten to implode. Washington comes to the rescue. Just siphon money to offshore accounts. Everyone is being dishonest and fraudulent, just join the crowd.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment Vandelay
Vandelay's picture

Stop using stamps.  Ask for all of your bills online and pay online, make them irrelevent

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:28 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

98% of all the mail I get is a bunch of JUNK!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:30 | Link to Comment ceedub
ceedub's picture

And they pay was less than what a stamp costs to mail them.

UPS and Fedex are probably loving this and can't wait to raise prices when they're gone.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:01 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

My brother received a $.11 check from bank of america for short term interest.  It was mailed first class.  The cheapest way to cash the check is to mail it to his bank (gas would be a killer).  I recommended he rip it up as a cost savings.  A bonus would be if some accoutant somewhere had to balance the BoA ledger to adjust a $.11 mis-match.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

another instance of Dem fascist compromising with GOP fascist to save us from disaster they created.

 

Postal service only .gov entity required to fully fund its future retirement costs.

 

I blame the greatest generation for not killing the fascist collaborators entrenched here in America. FDR should have sent them to Nuremberg.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:27 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yep, another shining example total proof 'theyre all the same, there is NO difference'...2 wings on the same buzzard picking your bones clean.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:29 | Link to Comment HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

FDR should have been sent to Nuremburg...in 1933!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:30 | Link to Comment PrinceDraxx
PrinceDraxx's picture

A fucking socialist/communist send fascists to Nuremburg? I want some of what you are doing.

If he had done, he would have needed to lead the parade.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And who is going to get a 3rd job to pay for that? It wont be me, I guarantee you that, I refuse to pay any further taxes to a criminal entity based upon rejection of being a total slave, and I do not care what the consequences are!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:32 | Link to Comment EBR MOD 0
EBR MOD 0's picture

careful SD1 they'll be a knockin' at your door...not nice to critisize the regime...you could be headed to a lovely FEMA camp near you. They will xfer your junk mail and be sure your mail gets there, sometime.

just kidding ;-)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment l1b3rty
l1b3rty's picture

And to think how hard they are working those poor individuals who have been promised a future of benefits!!! What wasted lives if only they would WAKE UP!

http://silvervigilante.com

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment koaj
koaj's picture

If Congress hadn't priced Lysander Spooner out of the market in the 1850s then we wouldn't be in this pickle now.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:57 | Link to Comment TapperIsTicked
TapperIsTicked's picture

I thought USPS was forced to lower their price to become competative with Lysdander and then Congress wrote legislation to monopolize the privilige to Guberment types. Basically, Spooner was spanking their ass in a competative environ and why deal with that when political types can save the day.

I agree with your point that guberment gets involved and here we go again, running blind but by god, we're running fast. Somethings never change.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:29 | Link to Comment nick howdy
nick howdy's picture

No you can't close down Postal Centers...N0 WAY!  Think of the local economies effected, think of all the vendors who support the PS..

There aren't just PS jobs at stake here..All those mail handling machines are made by someone and people make parts...and On an On..

We must keep it going...Everything must be bailed out! The system must keep moving, must keep going..Until one day it cannot move anymore, then finally it's dead...

But like so many things near to death..We will delay the inevitable, this death, no matter what. Anything is better than what we don't know..     

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:28 | Link to Comment Carbine
Carbine's picture

I just can't seem to get in the way of one of these cushy bailouts!  What do I need to do?  Instead of being independent and working hard I guess I should have found a union job or gone to work for the goobermint.  Any suggestions for a guy in his 50's to start again and find some work that will benefit from a future bailout?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:35 | Link to Comment PrinceDraxx
PrinceDraxx's picture

Marry an illegal alien and have 6 ninos, amigo. You get free health care, food stamps, earned income credit...hey I know, you have to work a little bit to get the max but it's worth it. The good part is Section 8 housing in a rich neighborhood so you don't have to travel too far to steal whatever else you need. Unfortunately, you have to take a bus to get your drugs then.

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:28 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Bush's fault

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:00 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

How many days of Medicare Part D payouts, Afghan presence, or SPR splurging in Bush's term would've been needed to fund the entire $11B?

(hint: even you can count that high, Bob...maybe even without taking off your shoes!)

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:14 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

That's right: after all the huffing and puffing about "sacrifice" and austerity, the labor union took one long look at the only option... and asked what other option is there."

 

Actually, the options are: less money for post office employees, the same money for a reduced amount of post office employees (and less post office service) or a taxpayer infusion of money (bailout).

 
Or, some combination threof.


Is anyone really surprised that the bailout option is going to be the dominant/only course of action?  We'll probably end up with =>$ for the => number of post office employees, higher postal rates and less post office service. This lose-lose-lose-lose "solution" for the taxpayer will be (is) advertised as a successful, bipartisan comprimise.

And just so everybody knows: when government pension funds are “raided" from time to time to fill other shortfalls, there is  still a roughly zero chance of public sector retiree checks  ever not being mailed in their full amounts .

 When California and various other state/muni government really go bust….all that means is that outstanding government obligations (benefits for themselves) will now seek a slightly different route downhill to taxpayer wallets.

If you're a kid trying to figure out how  to get and afford a college degree so you can be competitive at the high end of the 21st century job market you really ought to consider chucking all that and instead start developing a strategy for getting a (any) government job.  It should be obvious by now  that the public sector will be the LAST shoe to drop.


Sure, some of you will be able to play in the big leagues but most of you will never be able to hit a MLB fastball or out earn your mailman.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:29 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Annual losses over 20 billion dollars.

That is $20,000,000,000.

The numbers get so large that people now see million, billion, and trillion in the same light:  Big numbers.

I would hazard a guess that of the 500 million pieces of mail, half or more is nothing more than junk mail. Which is merely make work for the agency.

There really is no answer, just as the horse and buggy guys noticed when they saw cars whiz by.

pods

 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:28 | Link to Comment orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

People still mail stuff?  For real?

 

This is one organization that will get a trim when the markets head south.

 

Dow is looking ready for a big drop.

 

http://bullandbearmash.com/index/djia/weekly/

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:03 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Yep.  I mail in my paper 1040 each year.  I love to throw as much paper at them as I can.  I even send in schedules which are not required for the file.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:29 | Link to Comment bahaar
bahaar's picture

Where did they get that fat postman from?  I've never seen one.  Only ones who walk a lot (and run a lot from dogs)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:35 | Link to Comment EBR MOD 0
EBR MOD 0's picture

the fat ones work in the post offices around here, the ones really doing any walking or delivering mail with a truck, not so fat, at least the ones I see.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:47 | Link to Comment PrinceDraxx
PrinceDraxx's picture

Yep, most of them are ex-military, generally indicating a lower IQ, which is why they get extra points on the qualification test. And before I get smoked for that statement, I support our troops in every way. I think their leaders are either misguided or malicious since they are still in Afghanistan. I know <B>I-Wish-I-Was-a-Badass-in-Chief</B> is neither worthy of being where he is nor worth following orders from.

Long way to say yes, than are in shape if they are walking a route, but few of them do that now, since it is so easy to get a medical exemption from it. Knew a guy once in Dallas went to work at like 5am and got his route. All the mail he delivered was to monster maiboard at 1 yes, not a misprint Apartment Complex. Whole route took about 20 minutes except on heavy mail days and then he had to work for an hour.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:29 | Link to Comment pepperspray
pepperspray's picture

Ever ask for a refund on a guaranteed product like Express Mail? Don't- because if you cause a 'disturbance' the clerk has every right and will act upon that right to report you to the local Postal Inspector for questioning.

Having spent 9 grand on postage for calendar 2011, you think throwing a refund bone to a 12+ year daily, walk-in retail customer once might foster good relations.  Instead, it creates one more unsatisfied customer.

But can I really complain? I mean- there's never a line, so my time is worth it.  Sure there's no volume no revenue and no future- but all the clerks I know still manage to afford week-long Disney vacations.  No worries, their job is evergreen.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:33 | Link to Comment overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

latest rumor: GM will take over USPO. and sell all it's production for mail delivery via caddy CTS's..seems there are plenty on  GM dealer's lots left over from the economic boom er green shoots er rebound er easter or good/bad weather economy.. AAPL new app:it's in the mail...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:49 | Link to Comment PrinceDraxx
PrinceDraxx's picture

Volts, after they are subsidized by the government.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:33 | Link to Comment hellas4life
hellas4life's picture

Up until 2006, USPS was debt-free and profitable, or -- at least -- breaking even financially.  The 2006 lame-duck Congress passed a mandate requiring the Postal Service to prefund 75 years' worth of future retiree health benefits within 10 years.  No other entity -- public or private -- has ever been subject to such a draconian requirement.  Congress created the problem, and Congress needs to fix it

 

PAEA law passed in 2006 requires prepayment to fund for health
benefits for future retirees. 10 year plan 2007-2016. About $5.5 Billion
required each year. This is a manufactured crisis via a poison pill.
The current $44 Billion in fund has enough to pay benefits for at least
20 years. A well designed attempt to privatize, sorry, I mean PROFITIZE,
the mail. First kill it, then take all the lucrative parts away.

Bottom line, the losses from 2007-2010 are around $20B, but the
prepayments were around $21B, so the USPS is operationally PROFITABLE. The artificial handicap is killing it. No reason to fully fund that account
by 2016. That is akin to starving your family to pay off a 30 year
mortgage in just 10 years. I am retiring in 2038, so my retired health
benefits will NOT be required in 2016.

Pensions. This is a separate issue. USPS has two types, defined
benefit and defined contribution. People hired before 1984 are CSRS, and
newer hires are under the FERS system.

The CSRS fund is OVER funded by about $50-75 Billion, with a balance
of $200 Billion. Depending on if you believe the OIG or PRC. The OPM
miscalculated, but won't fully admit it.

The FERS fund is OVER funded by about $11.5 Billion, with a balance of $75 Billion.

So you can see the USPS has been BAILING out the Federal government
for some time now. Any credit for these over payments WOULD NOT be a tax
payer bailout, and the funds could go directly to the prefunding of
retiree health benefits, raising THAT fund from the current estimated
balance of $44 Billion mentioned earlier to the 2016 PAEA goal of over $70
Billion, also eliminating the remaining 5 annual payments of $5.5
Billion

The USPS has reduced employee totals from 820,000 in 2000 to around
550,000 through attrition.in 2020, the USPS should have
425,000 employees. So employee totals have been drawn down through
attrition FASTER than mail volume declines, but that is rarely
mentioned.

The fact that 80% of the USPS $70 Billion in annual revenues goes to
salary and benefits is NOT out of line. it is a labor intensive service industry. they make nothingg. What should that percentage be?? I think it is too low. It
is also misleading as only 54% of revenue goes towards pay and benefits
of employees who actually TOUCH the mail. Maybe if we owned an airline
like FedEX, we could get that number down to 37%.

USPS forecasts they will lose $238 Billion by 2020? Really?? The USPS
has NEVER lost more than $9 Billion in a single year, and have a $15
Billion debt ceiling. Pray tell, how will they be able to lose $30
Billion per year the next eight years. Seriously.

Finally (for now), the USPS says 80% of post offices are losing
money. That is low. It's more like 92%. The reason is that revenue is
credited at the point of entry, so large plants get all the credit, and
small offices that actually deliver it DO NOT get the credit for
delivering it. The smallest, most rural 10,000 post offices cost the $70
Billion dollar organization LESS than $1 Billion per year. If you shut
them all down, rural America will suffer unduly. Closing Post Offices
because they lose money is illegal. The United States Postal Service is
obligated to provide UNIVERSAL service nationwide.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:41 | Link to Comment Carbine
Carbine's picture

Good Post.  However, as MF Global and Corzine have proven, "illegal" doesn't mean anything anymore - at least for large well connected organizations.  The rules can be changed for the most favored vote getters (unions) or money producers (Corzine).  Same will happen here.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 12:04 | Link to Comment nick howdy
nick howdy's picture

Why would Congress fix it..I'm sure the idea was to bankrupt the PS..and this bailout will continue along those lines to further bankrupt the country...Becuase  Congress never fixes the problems they create..

They can never admit the it was they who have caused the problem, and reverse what they have done...They only have solutions...

Solutions that never actually work because they can't ever seem to find the real problem only the symtom..

That's because they are the cause, they are the problem along with their elite buddies who pay them off..

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:34 | Link to Comment ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

What it does show me is, if FedGov will bail out a minor department, there is no way it will let California, Illinois or New Jersey fail.

Moral hazard trade all over again: when it looks like California is about to implode, go out and buy the dreckiest Inland Empire GO bonds.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:54 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

I'm sure half of Newport Beach is planning exactly that kind of front-running.

Sleazebags in leased Mercs affecting wealth...like roaches with suits.

 

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