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Bank Of America's Legal Woes Go Global After Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund Sues For Mortgage Fraud

Tyler Durden's picture


It was only a matter of time. A few weeks after every money losing firm in the US and the kitchen sink disclosed it would sue Bank of America in an accelerating attempt to salvage something through litigation, the worst case scenario for Brian Moynhian just got real. As of minutes ago, Norway's Government Pension Fund, which is another name for its Sovereign Wealth Fund, has just announced it is suing Bank of America for mortgage fraud. Not only that but it is also going after Countrywide, obviously, but far more importantly, is also suing KPGM, the auditor on the Countrywide transaction, and, drumroll, ole' Agent Orange himself. If US bank analysts were busy quantifying the damages from every bank in the US suing BofA, just wait until the calculation is expanded to included every firm that bought mortgages from Bank of America... the entire world.

From DN.NO

Pension Fund chief Yngve Slyngstad suing mortgage company Country-wide, the owner Bank of America and KPMG in the U.S. for fraud, newspaper Dagens Næringsliv.


Billions are at the game.


The Fund and 14 other large institutional investors meetings the parties to a court in California.


They claim that Countrywide - formerly the largest U.S. lender for residential purposes - held back important information and concealed the extent of credit risk that the company took. The company was one of the largest lending founders of so-called subprime loans, which was a major cause of financial crisis.


Because of the misrepresentation of the company and senior management, bought the oil fund and other investors in Countrywide shares at artificially high prices from March 2004 to March 2008, according to the fund.


Angelo Mozilo and two other former directors sued as well.  They should have enriched himself personally by selling shares of "several hundred million dollars" based on information that was not available in the market.


The company's auditor KPMG and Bank of America, which bought the company in 2008, accused in the lawsuit.


"Countrywide's shares traded as high as $ 45 2 februar 2007. February 2007. Just over a year later was the stock down by about 90 percent, which caused investors billions of dollars in losses, "the oil fund's press spokesperson Bunny Nooryani in an email.


She would not identify the values ??at stake.


The Fund reported last year, the requirements in 50 different cases pending before courts, but rarely direct legal action themselves. It shows the Fund's annual report for 2010, according to Dagens Næringsliv.

And just like the US lawsuit spigot opened ever so slowly at first, it is now gushing, and is absolutely certain that every company (ahem insolvent German banks) that ever bought a mortgage from Countrywide, Merrill and Bank of America will serve the local branch of the bank with a summons over the next month.

All those wondering just what rainy day BofA and all other banks had been conserving their ever growing cash stash for, just got their answer.

And the funniest, or saddest depending on one's perspective, thing is: insolvent European banks, as long as they bought any toxic bonds without doing much if any homework, are about to pad their empty coffers courtesy of America's biggest bank... which in turn will lead to TARP 2, better known as the taxpayer funded bailout of European bank with a Bank of America conduit.

h/t Thomas


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Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:30 | 1645045 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Go get 'em....

Definately pulling for the "socialists" on this one.... heh, heh, heh

It would be a pity if Tan Man lost his tanning bed....

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:44 | 1645075 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:06 | 1645101 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Sort of sad really, those that bought in had all the sophistication that BAC had and sometimes more, they knew what they were investing in, the ground floor of a ponzi, but the sad part in all of this is that the individuals responsible will neither go to jail nor will their personal assets be attached.  This piling in for the kill only assures that BAC will be destroyed and a lot of good people with it, purely for revenge, but those that should suffer will not.  OPEN LINK IN A NEW TAB and pour a fresh one

Have a drink and listen and think, think what could have been had man lot let the wealthy fuckers screw it up for all the rest. 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:26 | 1645234 Michael
Michael's picture


A colleague of mine at work who was only interested in sports and entertainment spent the holiday weekend researching the economic collapse and the worldwide revolutions.

I think I created a monster, listening to what he had to say today. 

The sport of champions; Economic Calamity Porn(ECP).

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:45 | 1645254 Michael
Michael's picture

I think we should Un-Unify the Federal Budget and sever the Social Security Trust Fund from it.

That way, the SS issue is always off the table.

How do you like them apples?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:00 | 1645344 Tell me lies
Tell me lies's picture
Bet the farm on the over in tonight's game. I don't think the quants have moved into this space.
Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:19 | 1645354 rcintc
rcintc's picture

I don't understand why Fannie & Freddie are getting off scott free.  These bastards should be sued, tarred, featherd, caned, whipped etc... also.  They're the ones that set the loose parameters that the banks / mortgage companies followed. They should ALL be named in the suit. 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:03 | 1645386 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:39 | 1645415 WSP
WSP's picture

Then you clearly do not understand just how corrupt and broken our entire US/American society has become.   The kleptocrats and other criminals that oversee our government and banking industry have completely destroyed all honesty and transparency.   They look out for their own and a few million here, a few million there, and people keep their mouth shut. 

Like most problems, this Norway one will go away with a few bought off officials leaving the citizens of Norway no better off than when this press release was generated.  All this press release is for is to make sure the criminals at BAC see that the kleptocrats in Norway are serious---give us some money to enrich ourselves or we will keep producing press releases.

People, the world is corrupt---THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:30 | 1646326 Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

Put a face on them not the co. Then pull out the ropes and find a good tree.

And don't forget to pick their pockets clean before the buzzards scatter the remains.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:03 | 1645303 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Michael... I think you should make your colleague aware of this bit of info... PAGE isn't mentioned in the article but it's the first Chinese platform coming on line to offer large scale convertibility... "Yuan convertible by 2015: China to EU Chamber"...

"Chinese officials told European Union business executives that the yuan will achieve “full convertibility” by 2015, EU Chamber of Commerce in ChinaPresident Davide Cucino said.

“We were told by those officials by 2015,” Cucino told reporters in Beijing yesterday, declining to identify the government departments involved. He said the step-by-step process was indicated at a meeting in the last several weeks."

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:55 | 1645565 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

This show ain't near over.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 09:11 | 1645645 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

"The Love of money is the root of all evil"-- GOD

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:11 | 1647279 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

tell that to all the God-botherers running for office in amrka.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 18:26 | 1648070 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I thought Jeebus wanted me to be rich? 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:03 | 1645385 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Definately pulling for the "socialists" on this one..."


Me too, but maybe for different reasons. I'm looking forward to Angelo's gallows speech where he lists his "friends".

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:31 | 1645051 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

increasingly getting the feeling that BAC will be the new LEHMAN

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:06 | 1645105 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Who knows?

One thing is sure though: the US have triggered the hostilities on their own banks to make sure they have initiative on this topic and not spread a usvsthem mentality that would be damageful to the US.

US citizens have never been interested in justice, they are only interested in being in control of Injustice. Dont be on the wrong side of it and now and then, well, choosing your own punishment is much better than having to face punishment made up by others, specially if it helps to maintain control over injustice.

That is the US world order.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:55 | 1645261 oldman
oldman's picture


This is exactly the unintended consequences of playing politics with 'justice'.

Everyone in the game had a line of respect that they would not cross because of the 'club', even though their 'brothers' in the US lied and abused thirty years of trust in selling the shit to them. No one would have ever expected that the sellers were at the same time putting this shit together in order that they could short it----a few loose emails from GS, remember?

Bankers are not always 'nice people', but the Europeans thought that doing business over a long period of time with another bank meant that one did not lie or commit fraud in these relationships. Our boys, broke all of the norms of behavior of the civilized world----they lied and cheated and stole the money.

What is really interesting to me is that our banks got the money and spent it and now they may go out of business leaving a shitload of derivatives hanging-----I don't understand any of the derivative stuff, but I think this means that 'debt forgiveness' may take the form of evaporation under the process called bankruptcy---

The TBTF banks may have bitten the poison pellet----thanks to playing politics with the justice system because sure as hell the president signed off on the hfha suit---a half baked, ill prepared piece of shit

well, it's about time we came to this----will these cases be heard in the victim's country? I don't know, but as my grandson says, "I think so"               om

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:56 | 1645573 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

They're not OUR boys. They're ringers made to look like our boys.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:27 | 1647372 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

for the record, who are "out boys"?  just curious.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:32 | 1645052 Dr. Hannibal Lecter
Dr. Hannibal Lecter's picture

Growing up on a farm, when the horse pulled up lame, ya shot it.  BAC is lame.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:18 | 1645127 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

B of A  was a proud and well run bank, it was people, men, they did this and they should pay.  I am starting to think we need a corporate Nuremberg Court to find out which persons were responsible for what.  At what level is death warranted?  At what level is life in prison?  At what level do they walk but with a mark on their record that does not allow them to handle the money of others, or sit with children?  Mark my words right now, what is being done is no less in the west and America that the sweeping fascist empire of the thirties and forties.  It is a crime with real victims, too organized not to be a conspiracy, not enough evidence of colusion to convict individuals, but epic displacement and destruction just the same.  And there are people doing this, acting in concert even if we can't prove a Wannsee meeting. 

I would like to see everybody with unearned income over $500,000 total in their lives stand up for an audit.  Everyone with total assets over 2 million, audit.  If any of it was from bonuses gotten after TARP confiscate it.  No matter the consequences, and I do not say that lightly. 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 04:11 | 1645277 eureka
eureka's picture

It - the credit driven housing bubble - was blown for the sake of US Empire.

Dispersed liquidity flow via the home construction and all related businesses increased GDP and IRS revenues all of which sustained the world's faith in the "full faith and credit of the US government" - i.e. continued USD world reserve status, US bond sales, US military hegemony etc etc with all the associated benefits for the US corporate bankster and armed and security forces elites and providers and their peons' buy-in.

US owes its past decade's growth to Mozillo, Fannie, Freddie and all the other scumbags - because IF THE FAKE GROWTH HADN'T BEEN CREATED - THER WOULD HAVE BEEN NO GROWTH.

Oh well - here comes the inevitable collapse - just a little later.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 04:45 | 1645293 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

+1 green for that.


The US economy (and empire) was cratering in August 2001.  If not for a war-footing event, there would have been no growth for the remainder of the first decade of this century, while working off the combined credit excesses of the Y2K tech boom, and the boom.  By the same token, we would not be in the present position, would we? 

This ledgerdemain, I think, will not work as successfully again.  Instead, we reap what was sown......

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:54 | 1645339 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Eureka... What you say is certainly true but there is much more at stake than BOA, or any individual bank. A good case can be made that the world, and especially the US, needs to down size it's financial sector.

The entire world (all exporters) are dependent on the US as a dumping ground for consumer goods.

The 'dollar system' allows the current world financial system (exporters/importers) to exist and continue.

The system has been disrupted by stagnant wages paid to US consumers, hobbling US consumption, and serial bubbles blown by Fed interest rate policies. The major cause for stagnant US wages was the blossoming of the US Financial sector; ie, financialization of the US economy after Nixon closed the gold window to soverigns.

While the size of the US financial sector grew by about 40%, US workers pay remained stagnant as the finance sector salaries and bonuses grew by leaps and bounds.

Without a driver for higher US wages the decline of the current Bretton Woods dollar system (US as importer of last resort) will continue to deterioriate.

Neither the Fed nor the US Gov has monetary or fiscal tools to fix the lack of wage increases for US workers... Witness the wages of today are the same as 25 years ago in inflation adjusted terms. Historically, the driver for wages has been flourishing small businesses... and, they have been hobbled by regulation and financialization. The financiers want a bigger piece of the US economic pie and they are getting the expense of destroying the system that allowed them to flourish.

A failure of the Bretton Woods Dollar system means collapse of the current world economic model.

Exporters and importers are equally caught in this dollar system trap as the various countries attempt to devalue their fiat to retain their share of the exporting pie.

The world financial system as it exists is doomed to failure sans serious restructuring, and since the financial system has a strangle hold on soverigns there is little hope of meaningful restructuring.

Got gold?



Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:55 | 1645400 IBelieveInMagic
IBelieveInMagic's picture

The USD reserve currency has been the root cause of the trade imbalances but the calculus is that it worked well for the US -- we got to consume way more than we deserve (for mere exchange of paper/electronic digits), the valuable commodities (eg. 30% of world oil consumption) to the point the easy supplies are getting exhausted. There is plenty of potential consumer demand in the world -- in Asia, Africa, South America but the global financial system is configured to support consumption in the OECD countries and to keep down the rest.

So, for all the whining that I hear on ZH and elsewhere, this system was perpetrated for our benefit. Else we are in denial.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:40 | 1645416 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture


@Eureka. Nicely said.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:59 | 1645590 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Debt creation and bubbles come from the FED.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:00 | 1646153 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Could you explain how Ireland and Spain fit in?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 18:42 | 1648123 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Simple really, they already reached their end game and the markets saw that there would be default, so interest rates shot up to the point where even if someone was dumb enough to lend them more they could not afford the vig on it.  But, the Germans and French banks and financial institutions had so much exposure to the PIGS that to simply sit by and watch as these nations defaulted and left the EZ would have been the death of the core EZ banks.  So, Germany and France, but more Germany, put a gun to the heads of those nations in deep shit and said they would require them to borrow enough to repay the French and German bankers.  It might have looked like a bailout of Ireland, Greece, Portugal, but it was not, it was a bailout of the banks.  Not only that but it was at interest rates that are unsustainably high. 

In the case of Ireland it was a housing bubble that was the driver, and keep in mind Ireland does not allow one to discharge mortgage debt in bankruptcy, if you get behind you better start planning to emigrate.  Spain also had a huge bubble, but in their case the bailouts are really too large for the bailout fund, and Italy is just not even to be considered, it would require Germany and France to float trillions just for Italy alone.  Not bailing them out will result in a depression, bailing them out will result in hyperinflation/depression eventually. 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:53 | 1646106 trentusa
trentusa's picture

thanks for the most intelligent post I've read anywhere in a while.

What that guy said!!!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:17 | 1645396 fishface
fishface's picture

right on from TBTF to TSTL ( too sick to live)

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:34 | 1645056 UGrev
UGrev's picture

BAC.. you are the weakest link... Goodbye. 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:35 | 1645058 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...tricky bastards.

Agent Orange, lol

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:38 | 1645065 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Thanks for clearing up that ref.. fucking funny.. you guys..funny.. :)

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:37 | 1645062 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Will these crooks EVER get exactly what they deserve? Massive jail time and ALL their ill-gotten gains confiscated? Never!!! Only if the people finally wake up and "force" it on them, will justice be served.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:37 | 1645064 oldman
oldman's picture

This is the 'other shoe' that we have been waiting for-----good news for you gold and silver riders

Imagine---suing a thief----this is really going to be fun!     om

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:22 | 1645077 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

In the immortal words of Mortal Kombat: Norway, finish him!

I salute Norway. I salute every company who sues these goddamn fraudulent banks and bankers into oblivion.

Norway, it is an abhorrent disgrace to U.S. citizens that BAC has "America" in its name. Please, on behalf of the citizens of these United States, zero this bitch out.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:58 | 1646130 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It used to be the Bank of Italy.  It was more honorable then.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:47 | 1645079 interbanker
interbanker's picture


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:49 | 1645080 Frederic Bastiat
Frederic Bastiat's picture

couldn't care less for BoA, but come on!  Is every asset manager in the world also going to give back his/her 8% mbs returns from 2000 - 2007?  They were all loving it then, isn't it obvious that those gains weren't real.  

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:56 | 1645095 oldman
oldman's picture

This is what used to happen if a simple retail broker did not fully disclose the risks, but in this case we are talking about fraud! This is what the universe calls justice.

willis justice

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:40 | 1645188 Frederic Bastiat
Frederic Bastiat's picture

I mean I agree that they probably have a case.  It's just that no one thought this was fraud back then becuase most were under the 'history tells us the future' spell.  Once everyone realized that housing prices do actually go down, then we decided that bad loans were fraud, because the underlying assets wouldn't back stop the investments.  If housing prices don't go down, no fraud complaints.  So on we go, lets just drag a couple more trillion dollars through the courts.  Maybe our grandchildren will know what economic growth is like.  

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:59 | 1645266 oldman
oldman's picture

In most Western countries, I believe fraud is a criminal offense---you fucking go to jail for it

I don't knowv what else to say to your post

respectfully    om

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 04:18 | 1645281 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Where have you been old man?  I have yet to see any serious fraud perpetrators see the inside of a cage for it.  Ole Berny aint got shit on what the TBTFs have pulled off.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 04:26 | 1645285 oldman
oldman's picture


I live in a timewarp where ethics are important---and there is, at least, honor among thieves. Everyone here understands understands that just because a couple of generations are ethically corrupt that 'it ain't over yet'.

The universe is not a personal place, so justice in the universe is what is----I am disillusioned because of 'my' expectations until I remember that it is not personal, but because of a desire for 'justice' I get excited at each trial;

and I have witnessed justice often.

Thanks for stirring up an oldman     om

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:48 | 1645081 angrybill
angrybill's picture


"Billions are at the game"


Someone's been at the Google translate again...

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:54 | 1645092 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:11 | 1645114 Fanatic
Fanatic's picture

= Billions are in play, or Billions are at stake.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:49 | 1645082 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

Conduits bisches. It's all conduits

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:51 | 1645085 Hacksaw
Hacksaw's picture

How can Tarp II happen? I thought the tea baggers are in control now.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:11 | 1645394 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

We are in control.
There will be no tarp and no more stimulus.
Dont count on inflation.
Deflation may be our future.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 09:02 | 1645606 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Nothing going to stop QE3, or war or whatever the criminals want to call it.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:28 | 1645405 Judge Holden
Judge Holden's picture

They won't call it TARP 2.  They'll make up some other ridiculous name for it and do it slightly differently.  Keep in mind, many people now claim that TARP cost nothing b/c we were paid back in full, completely ignoring all the other policies that the government adopted to stuff those banks full of riskless profits.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:51 | 1645088 Misean
Misean's picture

Given that banksters' moral turpitude make the actions of a sperm burping gutter slut, just starting to scratch yet again at her track marks, seem angelic, this should be just the begining of the feeding frenzy.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 01:59 | 1645096 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

Mr Sulu, steer clear of that black hole. Planetary implosion in 5,4,3..... Looks like Iowa is going bye bye (sniffle)

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:07 | 1645107 oldman
oldman's picture

Very clever, Kirk.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:04 | 1645221 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Captain! I cannot change the laws of Physics!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:07 | 1645108 chump666
chump666's picture

"ole Agent Orange..." hahahahaha oh f*ck that was good.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:07 | 1645109 tbd108
tbd108's picture

In what court is BOA being sued?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:12 | 1645117 Fanatic
Fanatic's picture

It only says "a court in California" in the article.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 04:54 | 1645299 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

All of them.  All over the world.  This will set a new record.....

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:09 | 1645110 JJSF
JJSF's picture

BofA is not one of the share holders of the FED. So it will be eliminated as any other that isnt in the club will be eliminated. Buffet is not in the club either..but thinks he is because of the long run they have let him have. When he is no longer useful he will be pumped and dumped as well.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:11 | 1645316 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

I thought all member banks held shares of the FRB.



Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:57 | 1645436 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Here you go. This was published in 1976, but I don't think any of the families have sold their shares.

Fed shareholders' org chart:

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 09:04 | 1645622 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Buffet will die eventually. He  knows his place. The MSM will laud him as an American Icon Hero and that'll be that.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:10 | 1645112 chump666
chump666's picture

Norway should take that bank to the cleaners, no problems.  Why?  Norway is an oil/gas energy powerhouse.  WTF is Bank of America? It's nothing.  Break the thing up. 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:13 | 1645118 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:12 | 1645116 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

Anyone buying puts? Got gamma?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:35 | 1645245 Stack Trace
Stack Trace's picture


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:16 | 1645124 dumpster
dumpster's picture

Bof A declair bankruptcy  .. find out its worth zip..  split a dognut and a coffee between them all. 


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:19 | 1645132 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Are we standing in a puddle of kerosene?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:59 | 1645382 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Yeah, and it's mixed with ammonium nitrate.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:22 | 1645140 Newager23
Newager23's picture

BofA is the epitomy of too BIG to fail. Get real, in my home town there is a branch on every corner. The Feds will not allow it to fail. They will give BofA whatever they need, $500 Billion, $1 Trillion, whatever it takes. Thus, it isn't BofA that is the domino. The domino is when foreigners stop wanting our debt -- US Treasuries. That day will surely come, and when it does then we are toast. Until that day arrives, banks will be bailed out with more debt and from more US Treasuries. When 5 year Treasuries are paying less than 1%, it is clear that the world is funding our debt. That won't last much longer, perhaps 24-36 months.

The train wreck that is US default on our debt is looming, but most people don't have a clue it is coming. The price of gold is a good barometer of the mess we are in, but most people do not want to peel back the onion and understand what is happening. I shake my head when I hear investment bankers/analysts stating that the economy is on the mend and to buy stocks. The risk level on stocks and BONDS is enormous. People do not realize how much risk exists today.

I hate to say it, but we are toast. It's over. The economy is not coming back. The end result is going to be ugly in the near term, and transformational in the medium term. Think change, big change. Our way of life is about to come to an end. And our new way of life is not what we are going to expect. We think techology is going to just continue its march upward, but it's not. In fact, in the medium term it will grind to a hault in many ways. 



Thu, 09/08/2011 - 04:08 | 1645273 oldman
oldman's picture

Hey Newager,

I think you need to talk to Janus, use of weapons, JW, CDAD or some other dudes like them----

No one is too big to fail.

If we are so indifferent that we say nothing except "oh, well' and go on to the next trade we are too small to succeed

This might be the end of TBTF

WE have allowed this shit to go down and for this reason, I would never join anyone in this country in fighting----all you will get is a knife in the back and a shrug of the shoulders

you are correct when you write, 'It's over"

What this means we will only discover when it 'is'

thanks for your thoughts                om

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:46 | 1647715 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

while I agree with most of your post Newager23, when you say

Get real, in my home town there is a branch on every corner.

I can't help but be reminded of Washington Mutual, WAMU, who also had branches everywhere in the PNW - in supermarkets, mini-malls, everywhere. . .

they all say "Chase" now.

the "toast" argument is valid, but how long it takes for that REALisation to manifest is definitely arguable.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:33 | 1645160 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

Also, this will be positive for gold and silver. Here comes the Euro gusher.

BAC implosion plus garbage euros flying out of the printing presses, this just has to help the metals move up. Thank you, supernovas from eons past, for giving us the rare heavy elements to invest in.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:55 | 1645432 Pope Clement
Pope Clement's picture

If you google 'Electric Universe' theory you will discover that in the new paradigm super novas are not required for the transmutation of elements...

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:40 | 1645175 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:37 | 1645179 mikk
mikk's picture

we are <a href="">clothing wholesalers</a> and clothing manufacturers. working all over the world.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:43 | 1645198 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

By the time they get done printing all this money, there will be "No Tree" left standing on the face of this earth !

I'm calling Al Gore right now !


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:14 | 1645319 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Just don't use any rosewood or ebony from India or Madagascar.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:49 | 1645376 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

for real Gibson needs to find a way to capitalize on having been victimized by this corrupt government..  should garner massive sympathy from the broken  misled public.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:35 | 1645506 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

I'm assuming that was /sarc

Gibson has already got into Alex Jones, the GOP playbook [will be converted into an attack on EPA / Environment regs most likely] and major libertarian blogs.


Anyone who assumes that Infowars isn't a weapon wielded by interested parties should get real. It makes a lot of money feeding on fear.


For the record, the guy forged documents on an import - both in the US, and in India. This isn't about wood, guitars, folksy freedom crap, its about money. That is all.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:49 | 1647732 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"same as it ever was"

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 02:47 | 1645203 digalert
digalert's picture

Looks to me like the world Bankster cartel has chosen their sacrificial lamb, it's BAC. Sorry folks, someones got to take the hit and BAC's it. Meanwhile the rest of the criminal banksters, GS, JPM, WFC?...after stern warning get a pass to continue the looting. Except maybe Blankfein, hey Lloyd, hows that criminal attorney doing?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:00 | 1645212 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

This really sucks. BAC has been my personal and business bank for over a decade. Not once did the screw me (that I am aware of). Always timely, accurate, considerate and prompt. Saved my ass on a few occasions.

Now I keep only token amounts in the accounts.

Cleared out the safe deposit box a while ago leaving only a note with a smiley face that said "SORRY".

I wonder what Buffet is thinking right now.....

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:21 | 1645399 UGrev
UGrev's picture

what's Unlce money bags thinking ? "Ramen noodes again today? hmm. shrimp or chicken flavor..hmm"

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:02 | 1645218 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Good for Norway. Was there a clip on 60 minutes that showed either Norwegian or Swedish pension planners that realized they had gotten raped during the crisis? Let's see the other lawsuits for the other criminal institutions.

Gee, you would think these pensions would invest in some gold to off set their losses. Coming soon to a theater near you!!!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:13 | 1645222 Stack Trace
Stack Trace's picture

I bought a massive position shorting banks this afternoon. Picked up lots oF FAZ for 55.00. Somehow I think the banks will magically levitate tomorrow. At least I have my gold.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:18 | 1645227 Kash
Kash's picture

I though Norway understood the message with the "terror" attacks on their soil and next to the PM's office.

They are now asking more... Norway is home of terrorists and now officialy joined the Axis of Evil.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:05 | 1645347 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Yes, but more important - they got oil. *g*

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 03:45 | 1645255 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

I'd love to see Mozilo testify, but our current justice system sucks; bought and paid for like everyone else.  BAC, a non-WS bankster will be the sacrificial lamb, and will wind up with Dimon; at least the good part anyway; or are there any good parts left?  The taxpayer will eat a few trillion.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 04:35 | 1645288 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

No big deal, the treasury will just bail them out. Doesn't matter how much it costs.... even if it costs a trillion. The taxpayers are gonna spread their buttcheeks and take it. Republicans and democrats will pass it. And most of them will get reelected, just like in 2008.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 04:39 | 1645289 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

I like the hypocrisy of it all. No-one thought to question anything whilst house prices were on the rise. These people will have the devil's own job to convince any court that the securities were fundamentally crooked. It's only the house price collapse that has made them so, otherwise they wouldn't be bleating at all. They'd be rubbing their collective hands at their better than good fortune and their 'smart' investments.


Doesn't caveat emptor apply, even for bogus deals?


If not, anyone who ever bought in Spain should sue the Spanish government straight away. Their consumer protection laws concerning house purchases, don't count for diddly squat.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:06 | 1645308 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Yeah but BAC sold those mortgages as AAA when they knew they were giving loans to people that couldn't possibly pay them back. So they sold mortgages that were really JUNK as AAA knowing it full well.

That's called MORTGAGE FRAUD.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:32 | 1645325 LeBreizhou
LeBreizhou's picture

Ok, that's interesting. It reminds me of a certain "help" given to a certain country by a group of crountries... Can we sue a country also, then?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:41 | 1645332 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Indeed. Same thing with countries bailing out other countries knowning full well they will never get their house in order. That's why before bailing anyone out, we should get COLLATERAL...

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:32 | 1645326 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture



Where is the due diligence?  Where is the normal purchaser enquiry?  It was pretty evident that they wanted to acquire as many MBS tranches as they could, before anyone else did!

Greed, pure greed.  Good luck with this sort of litigation...... 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:04 | 1645346 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture of the interesting parts is that the British bank (RBS) actually broke it's own rules on mortgage lending - in the rush to suck up the commission before palming it off onto Fannie and Freddie.


How can you plead for 'self-regulation' ever again when a bank has ignored it's own regulation in order to fill it's boots in a mortgage boom?


This is exactly why the free market can never work - the path of self interest always crosses it and the results are always bad.

In a pure free market these would be no consequences for these banks - other than 'customers leaving' - but they wouldn't know because it's only been highlighted because the government (regulators i.e. FAHA) have taken action.


...otherwise the 'rational consumer' - would be none the wiser.


Even if you agreed there was no collusion or coerscion (as per a free market) - there is always deception.


I mean look at Jack and the Beanstalk - those beans could well have not been magic - it would require a regulator to stop Jack swapping his mothers cow for a worthless set of beans.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:53 | 1645366 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Wrong. A real free market wouldnt have a corrupt legal monopoly rating system putting out false ratings on securities. A government stamp of approval would not be available as a substitute for due deligence.

People and banks would be more careful with their money if they knew they were responsible for their own losses and couldnt depend on government to rescue them. Sure we would always have fraud but it is self regulating and limited when government induced distortions such as monopoly fraudulant rating agencies and the assumption of bailouts do not influence peoples' risk perception and behavior.

Banks that violate their own rules and lose too much money would fail, helping to limit incompetency and inefficiency in the banking industry.

This allowing banks to fail when they act stupidly helps incentivise good behavior and cleans out the mistakes and accumulated errors. Saving banks from their own behavior does not allow the occasional bank failures each year that a free market needs to punish bad behavior and incentivize good behavior. Instead the bailouts and other government actions hinder the cleansing influence of free market capitalism and make the ultimate problem a systemic issue like we have now.

A few banks failing every year keeps the system honest. All the banks failing all at once causing a systemic crises is an unintended consequence of central planning and bailouts that allow bank errors to accumulate to the point of a systemic crises, not an inherent fault of free markets as you seem to believe.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:43 | 1645370 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

A free market will ALWAYS work.

It is simple  - buy shit, and you are completly fucked.  Buy good stuff, and you can sell better. (Buy low, sell high - rule#1 of a free market).

Deception is always factored in as part of the price, in a free market deal.  Too much deception, the less you charge (in a free market), and (eventually) the less buyers you garner.  Quality at a price - THAT is the simple secret of a successful free market. 


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:00 | 1645383 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

The plaintiffs are going to prove they were given fraudulant data about the characteristics of the MBS, such as percent of owner occupied housing and percent of NINJA loans in each particular tranche. Due deligence does not require that you assume each individual data point is fraudulent and you are not required to conduct extensive forensic examinations of each representation made by the seller.

Criminals and civil defendents cannot get out of fraud charges so easily by blaming the victim for not discovering the fraud.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:05 | 1645387 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Criminal and civil defendents cannot use as a defense that the buyer should have figured out the fraud and misrepresentations.

If fraud is proven then caveat emptor is not a defense.

And no one cares about fraud when they are winning, but it is illegal in either case

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:33 | 1645327 Racer
Racer's picture

And in the meatime, 'markets' go up, happy in the knowledge that the poor will be robbed to fund the banksters mistakes

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:35 | 1645330 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Are you people really thinking that old fart WarrenB is going to let go of 5B? BAC will be saved, until Buffoon gets his dough out, then it's over!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 05:57 | 1645342 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture



At last, the world unites to bring down the sweaty old prune of Omaha.




I read the very boring and yet essential pages of the legal case against the banks last night.

This is clearly no 'chancer' legal event - there are citations which are very, very strong.


Watch the banks plead for leniency now - hell some of them might even deliberately try to fail to stop the legal actions.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:28 | 1645348 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

MY guess is they knew they were buying into 'junk' mortgages, BUT they didn't want to believe they were not worth the projected risk/reward ratio.



Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:09 | 1645349 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

German police arrest pair in Berlin over 'bomb plot'
Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:17 | 1645350 Setarcos
Setarcos's picture

Please someone, straighten my possibly twisted mind - you see I cannot tell any essential difference between paper and metal money/means of exchange/legal tender (emphasis on the latter, because there must be a commonly agreed, legally enforcible 'value' assigned to any given unit).

With paper tender, the usually special type of paper has its own 'intrinsic' value as "congealed labour" (let's say) but it is useless for me to walk into a shop with a blank roll of the stuff.  Only when it has been cut up and  stamped (printed) with a commonly accepted 'face value' of one dollar (for instance), can I actually exchange it for goods and services and get some loose change in coinage maybe.

But this change - say in copper coins - is also stamped (minted) out of rolls of blank copper strip - as an ex-toolmaker I know the process - and it is not until then that I can use copper as legal tender for good and services.

NOW for the touchy part, because exactly the same applies with gold (silver, whatever).

Let's take the Krugerrand ... 1.0909 troy ounces & 91.67% pure and originally minted (printed) in 1967 which at face, legal tender value, would still only buy you goods and services which have inflated way beyond what prices were back in 1967.  A shopkeeper, today, could only look at the face value ... not whatever speculative, etc. one ounce of gold is 'worth' today.  Or would you expect him, or his "check out chick" to find out what the price of an ounce of gold is today in rands, dollars, pounds, or whatever?

The Golden Eagle coin has a very complex history

Today ANY previous issue gold coinage would have to be overstamped to account for inflation, such that, currently, a notional one ounce dollar coin would have to be over-stamped with approaching $2000, much like depreciating paper legal tender can get over-stamped (printed)

Is my logic twisted, or too close to the essentials of of any media of exchange/legal tender?

I could wheel in the problem of compound interest and the implicit dictat of never ending growth ... but I'll cease.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 09:10 | 1645543 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture




Bread 2005 $1.09

Oil 2005 $60

Retail Gasoline 2005 $ 1.75

Gold 2005 $ 450

Silver 2005 $ 7.30


Bread 2011 $2.78

Oil 2011 $ 84

Retail Gasoline 2011 $ 3.75

Gold 2011 $ 1850

Silver 2011 $ 42.25

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:37 | 1646017 Setarcos
Setarcos's picture


You have failed to address anything.

You have failed to explain anything ... you just bandy numbers, divorced from any real world context.

The real world is that you could not buy gasoline with gold, except at the face value of a gold dollar coin of one dollar.

Fools gold - not just pyrites.

Do this. Take your gold eagle to a gas station tomorrow and buy a gallon of gas.

See what happens.

Or take whatever gold coin you have to buy bread, or anything else ... then see what happens.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Just do it and then get back to me.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:48 | 1646615 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"Do this. Take your gold eagle to a gas station tomorrow and buy a gallon of gas. 
See what happens."


Take your $10,000 Salmon P. Chase or your matured $10,000 US Treasury bill to a gas station tomorrow and buy a gallon of gas and see what happens.  Just like the gold eagle, you need to go to some intermediary first and convert it to more usable "coin of the realm".  You might should get something smaller than a $50 while you're at it.  Some gas stations won't accept anything larger than a $20 for a gallon of gas.

U.S. currency is a promise to pay without any collateral besides the "full faith and credit of the U.S. of A".  If you've paid any attention to the amount of lies that have been told by the USA's representatives over the last 200 years, you would need to be a true idiot to have any faith in their "faith and credit" claim.   You can, of course, trade small bills for gasoline and other merchandise.  This is due to tradition and The Rule of Law (legal tender variety) -- a ponzi scheme backed by firearms and the federal police.

The gold eagle, while nominally backed by that same legal tender law to the effect of $50, does not, in reality, need any firearms to get someone like me to accept it and exchange it for U.S. debt instruments, i.e. FRNs -- hell, I'll even sell you gas for $1 per gallon (that's 50 gallons) for one of them!    While you may claim that there is no fixed amount of gasoline that may be traded for one of these gold trinkets, I would suggest that the same can be said for FRNs.  Maybe the gasoline merchant of the future doesn't want either one.  I, however, will (mostly) take my chances with the eagles right now.  A few pieces of Jewish confetti can be useful at the gas station for the time being.  I just don't have much confidence in them as a real store of value for the indefinite future.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:03 | 1646683 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

I failed to explain what? You're asking the questions or so it seems. I illustrated the reason to hold gold and silver over US dollars or US digital money.


Put my money where my mouth is? Sounds like you're not asking questions at all. More like, you have an agenda that you have failed to explain.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:19 | 1645353 Tell me lies
Tell me lies's picture

Yeh... just watching  msnbc talk about hair and other nonsense of the current cadidates. What the f#ck . Why don't they do real news as to, who is raping this country.

Sorry u r white stfu. Tea party peeps stfu.

Can take SNAP at fast food restuants now.


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:36 | 1645507 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Why don't they do real news as to, who is raping this country.

Because they are owned and controlled by who is raping this country.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:24 | 1645357 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Ultimately the government has to let BAC go bankrupt. It is the only way to limit liability. They can't pay every damage claim out there.

The government may have assumed AIG's liabilities to avoid bankruptcy, but BAC's liabilities are too large

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:10 | 1645452 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

Matt Taibbi nailed the AIG an insurer they are regulated by each State...the State Regulators were about to pull the pin on them...pensions, pension funds etc etc were on the line and GS knew this...AIG was really TBTF.

BAC, I really don't know ... this whole story was breaking over a year ago and the distribution time-line involved amazes me. If they do bail it out it's only gonna be with USD...not gold or anything.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:26 | 1645360 spankfish
spankfish's picture

Let us hope that Norway does not produce another Vidkun Quisling and screw this up... yes I know, does anyone in this whole mess have clean hands.  In a word "no".

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:37 | 1645368 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

I feel so much better having read this article that I had to sign in and comment the following:

First of all, let me say "it couldn't have happened to a nicer bank."

Next, may I beg Norway to please initiate criminal trials for BOA (et al) by jury here in the US?  Pick a venue with the most economically educated citizens for the maybe Stanford/San Francisco; OR a venue with the highest foreclosure damage to its citizens (e.g. Las Vegas, or again, San Fran area).  Shoot for life imprisonment in Bernie Madoff's cell block....or better yet, fill up Gitmo.

Lastly, if you play "Norwegian Wood" by The Beatles backwards you can hear the following; "Nobody steals our wood without getting axed and splintered" least I think that's what I heard.....anybody else want to give it a try?


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:39 | 1645369 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

I can't believe the Norwegians were as innocent/gullible/stupid as they're now making out.

They knew what they were doing and should take the consequences of their actions on the chin.

With this and the special conditions expected by the Finnish for their measly portion of the Greek bailout money, it looks like the Nordic types are getting all uptight. All 25 million of them. BIG DEAL!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:59 | 1645439 Setarcos
Setarcos's picture


The bottom line is faith and/or trust, whether at a personal, business, national, or international level.

Who the fuck are "the Norwegians" who should take a loss from the fraud perpetrated mostly by US banks?

Do you, Funky, read all the fine print with your every purchase?  Of course not.  No one does, because that is impossible.

Ever bought a house, car, washing machine, etc.?  Of course you have and I bet that you mainly took it on trust that the retailers and manufacturers could be trusted, because of being long-established, for instance.

Well GS, BofA, and all the rest were long-established and traded on "good will" (written into their balance sheets), but they actually shredded their bases for being trusted, behind closed doors.

That is fraud Funky.

They have destroyed the only thing which really underpins trade (and currencies), i.e. trust.

Would you not seek redress from a car dealer who sold you a lemon?




Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:51 | 1645378 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Trouble is, everyone has beer money and champagne tastes.

Ultimately, the quest for competitive advantage (to the point of manufacturer price exhaustion) has lead to the mess we're all in. Somehow, the world has to think of a way to pay everyone in it, enough money to live. Competition is 180 dgrees opposed to that. It creates winners at the expense of the losers.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 06:55 | 1645380 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

They will go Viking on your ass!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:32 | 1645408 Setarcos
Setarcos's picture

Historically it was the Danes who were the Vikings ... but WTF, we are all now mongrels and any racial origins are now defunct (just don't tell Zionists, neo-Nazis, Amerikkkan exceptionialists, British/French/etc. nationalists.

'Twould spoil spoil the 'right' to go to war on the back of jingoism.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:24 | 1645480 Pope Clement
Pope Clement's picture

Any discussion on the people of the North without knowledge of the Bronze Age calamities and the fantastic reordering of the solar system which brought these changes about is Dark Age nonsense. For example, the birth of western civilization took place in the lands around the Baltic and the Indo-European diaspora came from the north not the east. Felice Vinci's 'The Baltic Origins of the Homeric Tales' is a great place to begin.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:03 | 1645384 no2foreclosures
no2foreclosures's picture

According to Gerald Celente, when the Teamsters lost a huge chunk of their pension money invested with Goldman Sucks (or maybe it was JPMorgue), they just visited the latter and told them in no uncertain terms that either the losses were made whole or someone was going to lose bodily parts. This was a very recent interview on Alex Jone's radio show on YouTube.

And guess what happened?

Does Norway have any Saab jet fighters? Or are those their neighbor's?

These fu*king Banksters understand only one thing . . . brute retaliation.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:24 | 1645403 Setarcos
Setarcos's picture

Saab is Swedish and so is Volvo ... do not hold out too much hope.


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:32 | 1645495 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Bankers = thugs in suits and dental veneers. They understand other thugs.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 07:45 | 1645422 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

may the lawsuits proliferate like a colony of horny's too bad that bank of america is being made the single scapegoat for mortgage fraud as myriad banks, servicers, brokers, et al were among the den of thieves defrauding unsuspecting and suspecting investors, customers, and chumps....

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:33 | 1645499 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

it's too bad that bank of america is being made the single scapegoat

BofA = Criminal enterprise

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:27 | 1645485 Tater Salad
Tater Salad's picture

Capitalism bitchez, win some lose some.  F' Norway!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:04 | 1645715 Setarcos
Setarcos's picture

No it is fraud that's the bitch and Capitalism (whatever that was) long-since gave way to Financialism, wherein nothing is as it seems and outright fraud is easy, with strokes on a keyboard and invented "instruments" comprizing trillions of notional dollars, to be kicked into ever-shifting "goal posts".

Fuck Norway, you say - consigning a few million people to your dog eat dog mentality; except that dogs do not eat dogs ... only humans eat humans, though seldom literally.  Most commonly it is figuratively, via devouring resources and ripping others off financially.

I earlier wrote a comment about trust and faithfulness being of the essence.

Ever lived with a dog?

If humans had the mentality of dogs, then trust, faith, loyalty and commitment would never be broken.

It would not have been possible to package "toxic waste" and assign AAA to sell to the more trusting members of our species.

I know that "bitch" is the common expletive in ZH and I take it lightly, but all of my dogs have been female and none of them have resembled what both male and female humans do to each other.

It is a common trait of our species to project/ascribe our worst aspects in terms of other species.

I have been intimately involved (no not sexually) in breeding pigs and very few of them were as greedy as "human pigs".

I have raised cattle and none of them are "cows", nor "bulls" in the stock market sense.

I have raised sheep and none of them were as stupid as "sheeples". 

I have had a little to do with sharks, but none of them are as dangerous as human "loan sharks".

And so it goes ... maligning other creatures, who have FAR more integrity than our fucked species.

Unless you have actually lived with other species - which I have - then you cannot possibly know how how naturally better they are 'morally' than most humans.

Rant over.

OK rant not over, because I wonder what most in ZH have ever done to actually produce anything.

I am not bragging - in fact I am slightly ashamed by the diversity of things I have done, which includes farming, working in factories, working on builiding sites, working on roads and, for a few years, teaching young folk woodwork, metalwork and technical drawing ... I picked up knowledge of economics, politics, anthropology, psychology and more during the spare time that I had.

I have to wonder at how narrow others are.

I could debate anyone from Plato to the current PNAC abomination and 911.

But all I see is trivia, except that I know that there is more depth to ZH; else I would not have joined.

I particularly gel with CG.

I know a lot about cognitive dissonance ... I am informed by Carl Jung especially.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:12 | 1647005 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Dogs will eat dogs, literally and humans will eat humans too. You just need to grind them up and make sausage out of them. Not so much unlike the MBS business. We assume, perhaps mistakenly, that the sausage contains something that we would be willing to eat based on the vendor and some government agencies and regulations. Investors in MBS make similar assumptions, based on who the vendor is and the "due diligence" of the rating agencies. When the system fails, you get to eat some shit. The one that knowingly sold this shit to an unsuspecting buyer has committed a crime and deserves to do the time (and sacrifice all its/his worldly goods) therefor.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:39 | 1645514 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

For your viewing pleasure:


Sheeped Away tells the tale of a farmer who just wants to be with his beloved sheep. When a giant UFO enters his life to claim his sheep, what will he do to keep them safe from harm? And can he do this without waking his monstrous wife? 


Via metafilter.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 08:49 | 1645547 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Warren B was again thinking about B of A in the bathtub this morning.

Playing battleships. 


"Go Boom!  Hey, you sunk my battleship..."


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:17 | 1647039 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

As told by the lovely Becky Quick.  If I had to share my bathtub with her, I'd probably spend a lot more time in it too and less time in the shower.  She can play with my rubber duckie anytime she wants.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 09:31 | 1645714 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

No banking compnay can really be Too Big To Fail when there are failures like Countrywide around which are Too Big To Absorb.



Thu, 09/08/2011 - 09:59 | 1645835 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Two words totally destroy any amount of faith in a retailer/bank/company/country that anyone could ever have and absolutely neccessitates the need for due diligence.


As that is the absolute rule of law that has to be hurdled before any other considerations. Caveat Venditor may be coming to prominence, but that is part and parcel of the efforts made by successive BIG nanny state governments that everyone around here abhors, to make vendors more accountable. So, pick which side you're really on.

That a sovereign wealth fund wouldn't/couldn't be assed to undertake such due diligence speaks volumes to me. It's not as if there weren't plenty of naysayers around. Had the housing dip NOT materialised, no-one would be having a conversation such as on this thread with anyone else. They would be raking in the money and not worrying one iota about the poor wretches who might be struggling to make their mortgage payments on time, because they'd entered into contracts that shouldn't have been sold to them.

I find it strange that morals work in one direction and not the other.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:17 | 1645904 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

Payback bizatches.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:06 | 1646190 mikjall
mikjall's picture

Hmm. Maybe the Norwegians will bomb Bank of America, now that they are done with blowing up childrens' hospitals in Libya (if they are). If so, it really couldn't happen to a nicer buch of guys.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:06 | 1646191 mikjall
mikjall's picture

Hmm. Maybe the Norwegians will bomb Bank of America, now that they are done with blowing up childrens' hospitals in Libya (if they are). If so, it really couldn't happen to a nicer buch of guys.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:26 | 1646544 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

All easily seen from the beginning on why you don't throw money on top of fraud.   You must cancel the fraud, and litigate the guilty (or the accused...sorry).


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:52 | 1646930 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

National Socialists invade Norway. 1940 vibe all over again.

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