Bank Of Countrywide Asbestos

Tyler Durden's picture

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papaswamp's picture

Don't help these fuckers out...they screwed people...they made bad decisions...time for them to pay up. 

OpenEyes's picture

Within the scope of ethics, rule of law and constitutionality, I agree wholeheartedly with you.  They should not only NOT be bailed out or helped by the public trust in any way they should also be thoroghly investigated (and probably prosecuted) for any number of offenses.

However, from a practical point of view, why would BAC's management or stockholders have any incentive to create a superfund that would payoff claimants while leaving them high and dry?  They were bailed out before because they were TBTF why wouldn't they just roll the dice again and count on the Gov't to blink?  I'd say their odds on that would be better than 50-50.  Since the choice would be to lose all of your equity (and probably a fair amount of self-management power too - e.g. a loss of those big bonuses they award themselves) what do they really have to lose?  I guess the other choice would be for massive, and rapid, insider selling of BAC equity before TSHTF, get yours while you can.

I think BAC are evil and destructive.  I think they should be forced to live with the consequences of their actions.  But I suspect they'll drive the ship toward the rocks forcing the Government's hand to step in with yet another rescue/bailout plan.

Careless Whisper's picture

@ papaswamp

I'm more inclined to give BofA a pass. The people running that Bank are really really stupid. I mean, come on, buying Countrywide in 2008? They are fuckin' idiots. Meanwhile Goldman was packaging Timberwolf and selling it to clients as AAA natural cleavage, while at the same time shorting it. So I'm not ready to put them all in the same boat.

 

ZeroPower's picture

The people running that Bank are really really stupid. I mean, come on, buying Countrywide in 2008? 

Lewis is a chump, but his hand was forced. They bought CFC cause BAC was their largest counterparty on just about every single sort of liability you can think of. Its all well documented in several books about the crisis and probably has been posted here as well, but basically in short form: CFC bought and sold all kinds of shit from BAC. Tranche upon tranche of "shitty deal" mortgages, index swaps, ABS swaps on those indices, etc etc, and seeing as how BAC preferred CFC stay alive to eventually pay out those obligations to BAC, they decided to take em in under the new umbrella of BAC so that they have full control over their finances and what they choose to disclose and bring in versus the other shit still on SPVs which won't be seeing light of day any time soon.

snowball777's picture

Forced my ass; a voluntary looting of a corpse's pockets at best and yet another reason these stupid motherfuckers should be both bankrupt and in ass-pounding jail.

DCFusor's picture

They were forced to buy Countrywide, and caught a lot of shit for revealing that "secret" phone call -- buy them or no bailout.  Paulson.  Go check before spouting.

Now, since Ken Lewis is the spawn of Satan, couldn't have happened to a more appropirate guy -- but that doesn't mean he wasn't forced.

Manthong's picture

Didn't Merrill Lynch, with a boatload of crap, get foisted on them , too?

snowball777's picture

And how, pray tell, did they end up with their ass in the aforementioned sling? They weren't "forced" any more than any other criminal is "forced" into a life of crime.

 

Anonymouse's picture

Spot on, on all accounts.  As I recall, ultimately Lewis went ahead to protect his job.  Paulson had threatened to have him fired somehow (don't recall the mechanism).

An honorable man would have resigned and announced why.  Lewis did not.  He gets what's coming to him.

Unfortunately, he drug down a lot of good people with him

ZeroPower's picture

How can you argue with fact? CFC nbv was < 0

ToNYC's picture

 

Worse than negative only numbers; it was being forced to drink Socrates' frickin' hemlock.

Papasmurf's picture

Someone forgot to sent that memo to John Paulson. 

New_Meat's picture

CW,

"I mean, come on, buying Countrywide in 2008? They are fuckin' idiots."

Or not.  'Cuz Ol' Hank had just taken delivery of his brand new White-stock Ithaca Pump and said, "Boy, u gonna marry this bitch."  So after less than 2,000 minutes of "Due Dilligence" the deal was "consumated."

Of course it was stupid, but the alternative was worse.  Hobson's Choice.

- Ned

{The wedding was a formal one/her Daddy brought his white shotgun.}

agrotera's picture

I kind of agree Careless Whisper, but on the other hand, BAC looks like a dumping ground for toxicity, since yes, they purchased Countrywide, but also, allowed their own shareholders to get ripped off again with the "paulson" imposed merger of MER for 0.66 BAC share for every bankrupt share of MER.  Think of the JPM deal to get Bear Stearns and then look at the BAC rip off to buy MER and it all looks like musical shares to quarantine crap at BAC and abscond with as much value from the BAC shareholder as possible.

Bananamerican's picture

"Yes, the end result will be a near wipe out of the existing Bank of America stock, but it will not be bankruptcy!"

"so, uh...does this mean we still get.......you know....BONUSES? You know....to uh, retain our TALENT?"

sun tzu's picture

BAC looks like a dumping ground for toxicity

How very appropriate of TPTB to use Bank of America as the dumping ground for their toxic debt. 

ToNYC's picture

 

Old Maid; musical chairs. It's all fun and games 'till the cops show up.

Landrew's picture

Now that was funny Whisper ha! People some times forget the sarcasm here is the best! Give the a pass because who could be that stupid to by counrywide ha!

Papasmurf's picture

We need criminal prosecutions and civil litigation of those responsible for conducting the fraud.  All levels should be tried for their specific participation and responsibility in the financial crisis.  From the CEO down to the college age robo-signer, they should all face criminal and civil redress for their roll.  The stolen money needs to be recovered from those who took it and those who now have it.  

A huge reason the economy is not recovering is because those culpible have not been punished and their profits have not been disgourged.  This is the root cause for the "crisis of confidence".  How can there be confidence in a system that rewards thievery?  Recover the assets and jail the crooks.  Jail the politicians who facilitated the plundering.  Recover the assets from where they are instead of looking for money from a hollowed out corporation.  There is no reason to prop up what remains of the corporation.  Instead of creating a settlement trust from what remains, create a trust from assets recovered from the crooks so the compensation is maximized to victums and the taxpayer.     

monoloco's picture

Don't count on the DOJ, they're too busy interpreting Indian law and busting real criminals like Gibson Guitar.

New_Meat's picture

Don't forget the tremendous effort that they have to put in, day-by-day-by-day, to ignore all of those peksy "laws" that they swore to uphold.

- Ned

onthesquare's picture

I remember owning shares of Owens Corning.  They began to build this trust and take all their profits and send them into the fund.  Filed Chapter 11, with the help of the government, and became their own receiver. WOW!

There stock went to the basement.  Hit less than a dollar, fell off the exchange and just vanished much to the bewilderment of the common share holder.

$6b a year profit gone to poor asbestos sick folks and their dependants.  They deserved the money for their untimely deaths and poor health but what stinks was that OW had not produced asbestos products since 1968 so just how was their involvement being owned upto when claims came in.

The path that Philip Morse took may be a better one.

 

ToNYC's picture

 

Phiilp Morris paid the right cops; Owens Corning? Not so much.

Ex Poker Stars's picture

Some seem to be forgetting: We want perp wa;lks

Ms. Erable's picture

Only if the perp walks end with walls, cigarettes, blindfolds, and the sound of thunder.

ToNYC's picture

 

Perp walks cost lunch money. Perps aplenty pay far better. Just good, efficient government keeping the obvious crooks at bay. It's a great country, America.

narnia's picture

an above board settlement on a massive scale is a great idea, as long as the homeowner, credit customer & taxpayer are parties to that settlement. 

snowball777's picture

You're right on 1/3 counts.

TwelfthVulture's picture

BAC packaged some junk mortgages, marketed and sold them to legitimate investors as prime mortgages.  Taxpayers bailed out BAC via TARP, TALF, etc... back in 2008/9 which monies remain unpaid.  I fail to see how homeowners and credit card holders of BAC would, or should, benefit from a settlement to cure the defrauded investors.  Perhaps we should also extend settlement to people born on Wednesday.

narnia's picture

the FDIC is the true economic owner of these TBTF banks, which are all upside down on a mark-to-market basis.

the homeowner got into a bad deal and was negligent.  that said, the underwriters, the ratings agencies, the aggregators, MERS, the people providing credit, the government providing enhancements, the regulators incentivizing home ownership & the Fed were all negligent as well.  there are no saints in this group.

in a system of justice, you try apportion contributive negligence.  in my opinion, every single party should take a hit- some bigger than others.  that translates to homeowners having to live with their principal balances at a lower interest rate or a principal reduction at new rates, creditors receiving less of a return (which is all the foreclosure process is anyway- interest rates), and the parties in between paying damages to the creditors to mitigate that spread.

dbTX's picture

They didn't just "make bad decisions" they plotted the whole sorted afair. As far as I'm concerned the ratings agencies that aided them have blood on their hands as well.

Akrunner907's picture

Aww the memories. Just three short years ago it was a dream made in heaven, or so Ken Lewis thought.  What was his bonus? 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22606833/ns/business-real_estate/t/bank-america-acquire-countrywide/

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RobotTrader's picture

The Fed will nationalize the entire mortgage industry prior to letting BAC shares fall below $5.

It will be deemed a matter of "national security", therefore the debt ceiling will be raised again, and billions of freshly-flung Uncle Gorilla Notes will be floated, and investors will wolf them down like McDonald's french fries.

Corn1945's picture

I tend to agree. The entire point of the last three years was to prevent the business cycle from working and thus preventing anyone (politcally connected) from failing. Bank of America isn't going anywhere. The share price may go to zero but the government absolutely will bail them out again. If push comes to shove, they make influence the courts to throw the judgements out. Anyone who thinks they will get justic from this system is out to lunch.

The public simply refuses to take any concrete steps against the bailouts.

New_Meat's picture

Com:

"The entire point of the last three years was to prevent the business cycle from working and thus preventing anyone (politcally connected) from failing."

I remember Tiny Tim Taking over and Talking about "we can't afford business cycles anymore".

I didn't think along those lines back when, now, different matter.

- Ned

{after I finish cleaning the garage, I'll look up the citation, see how close it is.}

Atomizer's picture

Methinks JPmorgue will pick up Skank of America for pennies on the dollarette.

Steroid's picture

 

 

And Countrywide, the disease becomes a country wide epidemic (not as if the underlying cancer would not have killed them anyway).

Gohn Galt's picture

It's almost like you guys were in the meeting.  Or is it just that obvious. 

As far as BAC shares below $5, I think it will, but Robo you call stocks better than I do.  Thats why I just do credit and futures.

Landrew's picture

So you followed Robo's China Solar stocks down the crapper, did you fill bankruptcy?

Ruffcut's picture

I've bought nearly 600 put contracts on these shitbags. Exhausting profits since the middle of last year. Only in a little. Oh the pain.

IF some these criminals saw jail time, would make me feel a little better, but I doubt that. The tan man lives to contaminate the bigger crime bosses.

dizzyfingers's picture

RobotTrader:

I think anyone who bets on what you say will win.

LetThemEatRand's picture

I'll bet we end up with a largely taxpayer funded version of the fund that allows BAC to survive and the executives who caused this mess to continue receiving their pensions.  

Monkeyfister's picture

Sadly, I think you're correct. Our lousy Politicians know who butters their bread.

Seasmoke's picture

I want to see you smile again
The day the banks collapse
The amazing sound of the killing hordes

Zee hordes of vigalantees
The day the banks collapse on us

Id fight Gandhi's picture

Follow in CIT footsteps. Wipe out the common holders to come back and IPO a month later like nothing happened.

Piranhanoia's picture

  We do not need BOA alive.  It has fed on the living and carcasses of the dead.  It needs to be dissolved so that the criminal enterpirse can not be revived.  We know it is organized crime, and that is something that we can only eradicate to protect ourselves.

Monkeyfister's picture

No way! Just let the Zombie Bank die, already. Chop up the pieces and scatter them to the winds.