This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

"Bankruptcy Only Choice Left" As Stockton Set To Become Largest US City Chapter 9

Tyler Durden's picture





 

As mediation with the city's creditors fails, the California city of Stockton looks set to become the US' largest ever city bankruptcy. The city with the second largest foreclosure-rate in the nation has seen its property taxes and other revenues decline while retiree benefits drained city coffers, according to the SF Chronicle. The city manager, Bob Deis, spoke to a special council meeting tonight, noting (via Bloomberg):

  • *STOCKTON CREDITOR TALKS FAILED TO END CRISIS, OFFICIAL SAYS
  • *STOCKTON CITY MANAGER SAYS TALKS ON DEBT WON'T AVOID INSOLVENCY
  • *STOCKTON CITY MANAGER SAYS BANKRUPTCY `THE ONLY CHOICE LEFT'

and in an earlier interview with Cavuto, the city manager said:

"Right now, we have hit the wall.

 

 I mean, we have done all the cutting we are going to do.

 

We are going to run out of cash. We need to make some hard decisions so that we can restructure our finances and go forward."

and went on in a Bloomberg story to add:

"The whole purpose of filing Chapter 9 is to avoid an uncontrolled chaotic situation, bankruptcy provides the equivalent of a pause button. It retains services and provides structure so you don't have a bunch of lawsuits."

 

Paging Ms. Whitney for a told-you-so-dance...

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:09 | Link to Comment loub215
loub215's picture

what's that blond analysts name? early butright?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:12 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Meredith Whitney wasn't wrong, just premature.

Michael Burry was premature, too, and his initial investors expressed much angst over what were mounting losses, before The Big Short made it rain manna.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:14 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Whitney was only premature because of the massive money printing. 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:33 | Link to Comment SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right A B Select Start

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:41 | Link to Comment SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

Widespread Muni defaults surely all priced into market.  

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:54 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Translation........................

"Somehow we must find a way to save our bloated city retiree pensions on the broken taxpayer's back."

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:04 | Link to Comment Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Rather than believing the mainstream spin on things (it's all the pensions), it might be worthwhile to consider some of the greater reasons for all these financial troubles:

- criminal behavior by large banks to gouge money out of municipalities (eg: Taibbi's many pieces, especially his latest)

- corrupt politicians who pay 3x too much for all manner of things (roads, etc.), offering juicy contracts to mafia-like 'service' companies

- pump'n dump schemes, like the recent housing bubble

- free trade and off-shoring, taking away so many jobs

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:08 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

 

Greater reasons?   What greater phucking reason do U need than $90K pensions derived from $50K ending salaries?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:29 | Link to Comment Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Do you believe everything you read in the paper?  And frankly, if there are outliers or rare cases of abuse, then surely they should be resolved, but I find it hard to believe that what you describe is predominant.

 

In general, it's not welfare to the poor that is killing us economically, but rather welfare to the hyper rich, like the banks that got bailed out for 20 TRILLION $, while looting and destroying the entire economy and profiting from the disaster to buy distressed assets on the cheap.

 

Your arguments fit exactly with what the elites want us to think: the problem is all about poor and middle class people getting too much, and above all, bond holders must be made whole - YEAH, RIGHT.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:45 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

No, it's really about spending more than we take in.  A lot more than we take in.   And that in a phucking nutshell is Stockton's problem.   Like right now.    Pensions are bloated because there's no money left to pay them.   Why is that?    Again, they future-spent more than they could ever in the now-take in, or take in the future for that matter.    When you can't someday cover what you will someday spend then you're truly phucked and the city unions knew it.   But hey, keep making complicated.

Btw, you do realize that these pensions can start damn early in life and the same people can live for a very long time, right?   How do you cover that shit?   Oh right I know, could it be the already broke taxpayer who has no phucking pension for life at full salary and then some? 

 

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:45 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

When the levees break... Good by CA.. good riddance..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbrjRKB586s

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:09 | Link to Comment fourchan
fourchan's picture

detroit will be bankrupt in a month.

ms whitney was a few years early on her call

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:00 | Link to Comment Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

I <3 the D!

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:10 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

detroit never even had a housing bubble. depreciation for decades over there....

but there's a city worse than Detroit...yes worse....

Stockton gave out lifetime free healthcare for any government employee who worked there more than 1 month

government just spent all of the money on themselves and fancy buildings (aka. funneling money to their building contractor friend). they were going to build a new city hall too.

 

only 13% have college degree

median income $25,000

median cost of home $350,000

winner of 2009 Forbes most miserable city

 

they call stockton "All American  City"

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:23 | Link to Comment Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

The problem is that almost everyone is part of at least one of the ponzis.

 

If you aren't part of the real estate ponzi, maybe its the stock ponzi, or the pension ponzi, or the politician ponzi, or the executive remuneration ponzi, or the corporate subsidy ponzi, or the government handout ponzi, etc etc etc

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:05 | Link to Comment bdc63
bdc63's picture

good point dr. benway -- we all have our sacred cows I guess.  but I do think there is a difference between some of your "ponzi's" above.

real estate and the stock market are speculative.  there is not a "contract" that says if you buy this stock for X today, it will be worth 2X tomorrow.  if you didn't see the ponzi and got burned, then mark it up to BIG EXPENSIVE lessons learned.

but when it comes to pension funds and social security, there is a contract.  it says if you do this, we will give you this at a later date.  now, you can argue that those contracts should never have been written, but that doesn't change the fact that they were.  and it doesn't change the fact that most people in their 40's have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars into social security and will most likely never see a dime of it back.  and it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people over the years have accepted jobs based on "total compensation" because the pension was good even if the salary was just okay.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 13:07 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

your children regardless of your status on the ponzi ladder will be on the bottom rung....below illegal immigrant owned subprime real estate, below employment position where boomers with nearly free college degree or less now requires $150,000 masters degree, below the two tier union/government  pension system as they pay for retired politicians' mistakes, below Chinese factory workers  as there aren't any factories in US anymore, below almost all ponzies thanks to short sightedness of the current leadership.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Was not short sightedness. Was corruption, bribes, and fraud, pure and simple. Public employee gives money to politician 'negotiating' wages. Politician gives taxpayers' money (lots) back to them. The only ones innocent of any wrongdoing are the taxpayers, and my belief is that they, too (or at least many of them) are guilty of criminal stupidity in allowing this to happen. Been obvious for nigh on two decades now.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 03:07 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

NOLA learned exactly how mean those levees can be. Fetid cesspool.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 23:59 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

+1,  They are the Elephant in the room. One hard, hard core rain and they break.

When they go so does CA's AG.. 

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:51 | Link to Comment robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

If the pension is for life then there is an easy solution.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 05:18 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"firing cops, firemen, prison guards and teachers" will solve the problem? how? "by blowing up the banks of course!"

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:08 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

A major part of the spending consists of large capital projects and equipment.  Good for construction companies and the banks that issue the bonds to finance the projects.  See Birmingham, AL.  There are new, redundant and excessively large schools, police stations, fire stations and sports stadiums everywhere.

The bondholders don't have the votes.  Keep that in mind and you won't have to make stupid arguments to justify stupid investments.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:33 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Ditto.   

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:37 | Link to Comment skistroni
skistroni's picture

What problem do you have with blonde holders being made whole?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:41 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Yeah, brunette holders for that matter too.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:14 | Link to Comment THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Eric Holders I can do without.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:43 | Link to Comment Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

Did you back the bailout?  Did you cosign socialized losses?  The loss must come from somewhere.  If you are on the take from the gov as a welfare queen or a hard working school teacher, you are takin the hit.  You can't hide because you do not create value.

But the loss damn sure wont come from me.  I'm done losing.  I took my hit in '08 and '09 doing work for nearly half the price I accepted when I was a pup in the 90's. No health ins no pension. I produce something of value.  I earn my sales, and when I'm done with expensing as I see fit, what ever is left over...wink wink nod nod. I share with you.  That's how it goes.

So what haircuts have you taken?? 5%? 10? A pension pickup.  Traded in the caddy health plan for a buick?

OMFG

Should I really believe I am a pawn of the elites? Or are you not the kettle calling the pot black?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:02 | Link to Comment Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Uh, relax a bit, would'ja?  Divide and conquer is the way of our elites, and as I see it everyone who is making under 250K a year is clearly NOT an elite and is being screwed by the system.

 

To answer your question though, I'm a software developer who has only ever worked in the private sector.  I also produce and contribute real value, but I'm more sick of corruption, fraud and systemic child abuse by the elites than I am upset about lower and middle class peeps doing their best to get by.  And frankly, I don't think that teachers are overpaid in most places, for all that it's a damn shame they are forced to teach BS dictated to them by Rockefeller-type satanic think tanks.

 

In any case, my point is that if you look at the big picture (eg: 20 TRILLION $ bailout for TBTF banks + zero bankster prosecutions, or endemic corruption in all municipalities), you quickly realize where the real problem lies.  I'm not saying that public pensions and salaries shouldn't be reasonable and comparable to the private sector, but rather that focusing on that is dumb: it ignores the true cause of the economic disaster visiting us and basically is nothing more than another example of poor and middle class people losing out while uber-rich pukes continue their vile crime spree.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:55 | Link to Comment Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

Ahh software dewelopwer werkin fer the man.  Now I understand your resentment toward off shoring. Software dewelopment can be done where? Any where? In the world.  And the man ain't payin you what you believe you deserve?

How much BS will twerps like you take before you hit the streets and act a fool.  Live in parks.  Piss on sidewalks and ruin mom and pop businesses.

Oh sure in the short run you create some value.  But in the long run, what will the tape print on you? Anarchy?  Value destruction?  Why? Because you wouldn't accept the wages of a deweloper?

The DEVELOPER who creates value is the one with courage of his or her own conviction selling themselves into the open market.  Asking nothing more, taking nothing less.

Better yet, start your own DEVELOPER firm.  Convince your customers to want you. Land enough biz to feed your workers and your admin.  Negotiate the going rate for your dewelopers.  

And if you're real good at the game, you'll have net which for the privledge of being a shrewd and prudent manager, you can split with the gov.  Lesser managers squander the net on stoopid mistakes and the governement expects nothing from them.  But from you my shrewd and value producing friend, much is expected.

Along the way, (a path by the way few follow and even fewer understand - the rest are like so many baby birds maws open wide for the next regurgitation), you will come to understand; there is no profit in faulting a man for makin his money.  And it is his money.

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:03 | Link to Comment Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

Junkin me only confirms your resentment.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:03 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I junked you because you come across like a 1-year old throwing his toys out of his pram.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:05 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Sure....everyone is lazy but you. Occam's what?

Don't forget to mention that starting your own firm requires either debt or ceding control to investors (maybe even ones that'll hollow out your little software biz and sell it for parts).

You're a Koch-sucking asspony and the only regurgitation I see is your lame mythology.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:39 | Link to Comment Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

Lame mythology? I got net.  What you got?

BTW I truly am a Koch-sucking ass pony.  They make a great product.  Lot of innovative men and women work and make damn good coin off them. Hydraflex; Keeps your tile from cracking, makes your shower water proof, a fraction of the cost of the alternative. I buy it by the barrel, pour it all over my customers, they love me. 

I love Koch! So what of it?

I got net.  You got butkiss!

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 03:12 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Don't forget to mention that starting your own firm requires either debt or ceding control to investors

 

..umm...or pooled capital...you know...savings? Anybody remember fucking savings?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:13 | Link to Comment bourbondave
bourbondave's picture

When "Koch" is invoked in a statement it has become the new codeword that the person speaking is an idiot.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 09:55 | Link to Comment Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Here's what you are evidently completely unable to understand, Muddukk: I have a social conscience and I care for the greater good, not just about myself and my narrow interests.  But even as an egoistic person I'm smarter than you, since I realize that I'm better off if the system works well and is fair.

 

I'm a damn good programmer - so good that I haven't been affected by offshoring yet, and likely won't ever be (excellent programmers are far too rare).  See? I'm not arguing on my selfish behalf, nor are my arguments just rationalizations meant to defend my narrow interests.  The world can go to hell and so long as there are still computers around I'll easily have well-paying work.

 

You, on the other hand, sound like someone who is so dependent on the criminality in the system that you'll go so far as to embarrass yourself by trolling like you do...  That's sad.

 

In any case, there's no point to answering to the rest of your (failed) straw man arguments.  Rather than preaching hate and BS, you should go search for ways to turn your life around.  Good luck :)

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:09 | Link to Comment j0nx
j0nx's picture

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with Chris. I aint taking DICK for austerity cuts on my end until banksters are jailed, their ill-gotten incomes clawed back and their insolvent banks scrapped and sold for pennies on the dollar. I openly inform everyone else in my travels that they should do the same and to take every measure possible to insure that outcome. Pisses me off when I hear motherfuckers telling me this and that are breaking the system while we give trillions to banks who get their bad mortgage bets paid off by the taxpayers at 100c on the dollar and on top of that we have to pay them the deficiency on original loan even though they already got made whole by the FED AND the insane ramp in commodities due to the printing to bail them out! Fuck that. Resist any austerity measures directed towards the common man by any means necessary until thieving banksters take their austerity hit. Anyone else saying differently is either a thieving bankster, a cocksucker politician bought off by them or a retarded asshole.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:42 | Link to Comment Gunga
Gunga's picture

International investment banks get TARP, and other deals that run into the Trillions of dollars, not to mention unlimited Fed $'s at near 0 interest as they wish. I'd be a billionaire if I could borrow unlimited money at 0 and buy bonds at 2% .
But the media says the promises made to pensioners is the problem.
Not too mention the unthrottled industry that leeches off the defense dept.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 05:24 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

and having believed (correctly unlike this site) that that wasn't going to work either (the bank equities all collapsed last year) i've decided to change my mind and "call the bottom on the downgrade." Remember...yet again..."you heard it from disabledvet" first.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 05:45 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

disabledvet, I will remember. though I will also remember that you were naughty, lately, here 2561038. And that you still haven't explained your outburst. ;-)

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 03:12 | Link to Comment patb
patb's picture

i was in line witha guy rom Sacramento and he pointed out how Prop 13 moved taxes to young people, new comers and away from businesses.

 

when a business is sold, it transfers the land inside the stock shell so no new tax applies, but people can't do that, so the houses all reset

in value while apartment buildings and retail all stay at the 1979 prices.

 

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:24 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

prop 13 transfers via inheritance, so not all young ones are screwed....just the ones who picked the wrong out of state parents.

 

do you know why California is so accomodating to foreigners illegal and legal? because they are the suckers to unload shitty shack to for million bucks, so old white geezer can retire in tax free FL, TX, or NV. ran out of american suckers, so had to import foreigners.

 

funny thing is new comers have to pay property taxes on bubble real estate prices AND special school tax. that's right. property tax is supposed to pay for schools right? well for a new comer it does, but because of prop 13, a SPECIAL TAX is added to make up for the loss.

 

oh and the "environmentalists" are all fakers....property owners who want to control their neighborhood.

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:14 | Link to Comment bourbondave
bourbondave's picture

Can it be both or can it only be one or the other for people who think this way?  There are criminals everywhere right now with hands in other people's pockets and it doesn't matter if you are a banker or a middle class person, if you are taking from others then you are the problem.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:30 | Link to Comment aldante
aldante's picture

It's not abuse, that's the whole problem. We have a whole generation of (mainly) public employees who retired in their mid 50s with around 100k pensions at least in California. Some with with healthcare benefits until they reach age 65, some for life. They know they are not abusing the system because that is how the system was set up. when you add up all of their benefits it's much more then the average taxpayer.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 09:28 | Link to Comment Rentier
Rentier's picture

Maybe you're a tad naive christophe2.  Here is just another fine example of "full retard" pensions and payouts cities and counties are paying.  So no it isn't isolated or rare. Don't even look at the lawsuit angle of it or the fact they are going to PAY HER NOT TO WORK!  Just look at the benefits and retirement age...

 

"The raise Gray gets will increase her pension to about $70,000 a year. Only in her 40s, if Gray collects that for the next 25 years, it adds up to $1.75 million."

 

and this part " a raise and to be on leave until she retires in three years."

 

Retire in three years and in her 40s?!  Collect over million dollars in retirement (15years x $70k) before you or I could even get SS at 65!?! Paying them to get what we don't even come close to get!  WTF...

 

http://www.firehouse.com/news/10464416/deal-gets-florida-firefighter-500...

 

Daytona Beach just cut a deal with a firefighter that would give her more than a half-million dollars, and she never has to show up for work again, WFTV learned Thursday.

City leaders also gave her a raise and a promotion. All this because the firefighter said she was unfairly demoted, because she's a woman. She's not even allowed to go to a fire station.

Daytona is going to have a deputy fire chief -second in command- who won't be allowed to stand on city property at the fire department. Her $99,000-a-year new job is basically to stay away from there for the next three years.

Lt. soon to be deputy chief, Kris Gray, could make millions of dollars and never have to work as a Daytona Beach firefighter again.

After a massive fire in Daytona Beach two years ago, Gray was accused of mismanaging the incident and was demoted as a result. She responded with complaints to the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission and Florida Human Relations Commission that the demotion was based on her sex.

In a nine-page deal worked out this week, Gray agreed to drop charges in return for a promotion, a raise and to be on leave until she retires in three years.

"I would like to know why she's not working. If I'm going to pay you to work for me, you're going to work," resident Reggie Johnson said.

WFTV went to City Hall to try to ask city leaders that question. No one would agree to an interview, citing the seven days Gray has to back out of the deal.

In phone calls with four commissioners, WFTV argued the agreement was public.

"I think you should have the right to and the ability to justify your vote," Johnson said.

But no elected officials would comment. The raise Gray gets will increase her pension to about $70,000 a year. Only in her 40s, if Gray collects that for the next 25 years, it adds up to $1.75 million.

The Daytona Beach Fire Department has 122 firefighters and only six are women.

The city opened no investigations into any firefighters as a result of Gray's claims of discrimination. During the entire process, Gray has been working her normal shift at the fire department.

Her resignation letter, however, is already written up and takes affect in 2014.

Gray will also walk away with a recommendation letter in case she wants to work somewhere else.

Gray's attorney had to agree not to represent another female firefighter, who had also complained to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission about her treatment in Daytona Beach.

Documents reveal Lorraine Becker is another female firefighter who has complained about working conditions with the Daytona Beach Fire Department. But the city is trying to make sure she doesn't get the same deal Gray received.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:47 | Link to Comment AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

$35,080,000
STOCKTON PUBLIC FINANCING AUTHORITY LEASE REVENUE BONDS, 2009 SERIES A (CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS)
http://www.delrioadvisors.com/assets/r4c2_OS_Stockton.pdf

Lead underwriter: RBC Capital Mrkts

The bondholders are not in a very good position here.

"Limitations on Remedies
The rights of the Owners of 2009 Bonds are subject to the limitations on legal remedies against counties in the State, including applicable bankruptcy, insolvency, reorganization, moratorium and similar laws affecting the enforcement of creditors’ rights generally, now or hereafter in effect, and to the application of general principles of equity, including concepts of materiality, reasonableness, good faith and fair dealing and the possible unavailability of specific performance or injunctive relief, regardless of whether considered in a proceeding in equity or at law.
Under Chapter 9 of the Bankruptcy Code (Title 11, United States Code), which governs the bankruptcy proceedings for public agencies such as the City, there are no involuntary petitions in bankruptcy. If the City were to file a petition under Chapter 9 of the Bankruptcy Code, the Owners of 2009 Bonds, the Trustee and the Authority could be prohibited from taking any steps to enforce their rights under the Lease Agreement, and from taking any steps to collect amounts due from the City under the Lease Agreement."

Pensions, and more importantly, future pension fund investment return assumptions, which never materialized, was the downfall of the City of Stockton.

From the indenture: • "The annual assumed investment return has decreased from 8.25% to 7.75%.
• The investment return in Fiscal Year 2006-07 was -2.5%.
Recent Developments–PERS - Decline in Investment Return. Recent developments in the financial markets have resulted in a decline in investment return for Fiscal Year 2007-08. As indicated above, in calculating the UAAL in an actuarial valuation, the PERS actuary assumes an investment return equal to 7.75%. The actual investment return for Fiscal Year 2007-08, net of expenses, was negative 5.1%. Employer contribution rates are affected by the investment return in a given Fiscal Year in the third Fiscal Year that follows. Therefore, the negative 5.1% return for Fiscal Year 2007-08 will first be reflected in employer contribution rates applicable for Fiscal Year 2010-11."

The underfunded pension plan needed to be capitalized at the end of FY2011. This created a large liability just as revenues were declining due to a withering tax base.

More Stocktons out there, lots more.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:52 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Facts are a bitch on the fateful train of reality.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 05:27 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

too bad they weren't invested with us. Oh, well. "Automotons and their money soon part." C'est la vie!

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:15 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Or it's both and the Muni bond Cavaliers of credit merely enabled a large amount of stupid.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:30 | Link to Comment Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

Quit yer cryin about off shoring.  Globalization is a bell.  You can't un-ring it.  Besides whomever over seas is doing the job you used to have has a right to do the work.  

The terms and conditions he or she accepts my be unacceptable to you, but this is only a confirmation that you ask to high a price.

So goes the value of wages so goes the price of houses (unlevered of course).  So goes tax reciepts.  So goes government coffers.  So goes your pension you thought was a sure thing.

Everytime we placed our trust in another person or human system, no matter how trustworthy, they failed us or were capable of failing us; therefore we placed our trust in a higher power.  In all other dealings, I am resopnsible.

You my government pensioneer friend. You are responsible.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:09 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Sure you can...just get WTI over $120 and watch the sparks fly.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:31 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

There is no way some smuck who makes 50 grand a year is supposed to retire on a 100 grand a year pension , especially when I'm paying for it and making less than the good for nothing produce nothing schlub.
The produce nothing takers are just as bad as the criminals on wallstreet. They all deserve to be hanging from the same bridge for their greed.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:28 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

how about top level politicians who makes $180 grand a year and retires (if ever) on a nice pension + double digit millions in the bank somehow? they are called congress.

 

big boys play in DC.

 

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:37 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It's a given that politicians are evil, and worthless parasites.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:46 | Link to Comment greersteven
greersteven's picture

What does everyone expect to happen when corrupt union bosses are negotiating contracts with corrupt politicians?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:18 | Link to Comment PeaceLover
PeaceLover's picture

your right except for you need to add "Public Union" the private got killed in the last 3 decades.
Unions aren't the real problem.. its the .0001%

for sure California government is crap.. they pay 200% 300% over retail no accountability.
The California franchise tax board will empty your bank account with out even a phone call.

If you live there don't live there more than 179 days.. bunch of states doing fine not charging income taxes.

the deal is hidden in plain sight just the main stream media can't get around the bought and paid for crap they call news.

Read the book...

Winner-Take-All Politics its a easy read but if your schooled in the USA it does take a 100 I.Q. to follow and there isn't any Hollywood or ball games.

here is a you tube video that will get you in the right direction

http://youtu.be/547d2Ge_j2o

Or right here on ZH Jim Quinn has it down.. funnyier but a little higher I.Q. needed.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-who-destroyed-middle-class-part-3

In fact after finishing both I have to vote for Paul...
I don't think either book call for Paul.. but it's pretty clear, its a joke to vote Obama or Mitt... kind of like voting for your own execution, unless your the top .0001% your choices are f**king yourself bad or f**k youself really really bad.

 

Kind of Like Rangel you would think he should be in Jail, or any banker, they are killing more people on the planet, starvation, health care.. on and on...
 PL

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 11:32 | Link to Comment Nels
Nels's picture

 

- corrupt politicians who pay 3x too much for all manner of things (roads, etc.), offering juicy contracts to mafia-like 'service' companies

And among those 'all manner of things' that they paid too much for was pensions.  Just about every local and state government did so, while only a few did things quite as stupid as Jefferson County.   Even if they only paid 2X for the pensions, the sheer volume of pension payments make it the larger problem.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 11:54 | Link to Comment CommonSense89
CommonSense89's picture

San Jose police have a 80-90k pension. Your retarded off shoring claims are baseless. Pull up the numbers, the pensions have ALWAYS been the problem in California.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:32 | Link to Comment xtop23
xtop23's picture

Let me put it this way. I work in Stockton. It's a horrible place.

It was ineptly run by politicians who were in the public unions pockets.

Fully 40% + of city revenue goes straight to paying pensions.

Like many US cities, the public workers took advantage the last year of work to artificially bloat their retirement for the remainder of their lives.

All I can say is congratulations gang. Now you're going to be affected retroactively and take it right in the rear.

Governments are incredibly capable in managing money.

Aren't you impressed?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 05:59 | Link to Comment Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

and who is it that promises these pension funds impossibly stable returns in order to gain access to trillions of dumb money? You really think Union negotiations go smoothly to please workers? Ultimately the average worker knows not that taxpaying communities may be forced into bankruptcy by pensions until it is too late.

 

Informed people at the top of the food chain who are all too willing to over promise and under deliver care not what damage they cause. After all being paid 10 to 1000 times the average wage is one hell of an insulator.

 

the real trouble began when offering ponzi returns coupled with elimination of conflicts of interest became the norm. stability is not possible when financial predation is legal. it is my sincere wish that those who equivocate on behalf of disaster capitalism style free to steal markets are among the first to have their faces eaten.

this rant is not necessarily intended for the poster above.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:00 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I used to work in Stockton.  They have an interesting way of staffing their public schools - yes the one with it's own public police force.  The hire new teachers, retain them for two years on essentially intern pay, and then pink slip the entire district staff every summer, only bringing back one-year interns and older uniuon folks who can sue.  They've done this for about 10 years now and guess what?  Their school budget is improving because they have very few tenured teachers left.  But the "fresh blood" they keep bringing in has gotten wise to the fact they will be cashiered early and with only pat oldsters and piss off young-uns teaching their schools suck mightily.  Highest preganancy rate of any district in the West, incidentally (one in NJ is higher I think), and only a 50% graduation rate from K-12...

I think Dale Fritchen is the only halfway competent person in that city and he's got nothing to work with.  All that fiat and credit did turn downtown into something nicer than a conveneint place to get mugged on your way to jury duty though...

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:33 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

A lot of blame going on, very little analysis.

Unions negotiated your present earnings as a mix of present and future payments.

Unions get congratulations on the great new contract that has a huge pension. They get raises and bonuses and roses.

Politicians get to delay the payment of wages until a future date making them look like good stewards of the "budget". That fictional, accounting concept that is infinitely pliable. You, of course, vote this politician back in.

As revenues fail to meet projections, as unrealistic returns on investments fall short, as people begin to tap said pensions, the problems become clear. 

YOU HAVE BEEN ROBBED, because your greed exceeded your foresight and intelligence. Every job has a value. It cannot be "negociated" upwards without repercussions. You have placed your current earnings AT RISK by allowing a governmental agency to borrow them. YOU assumed the agency would remain solvent. 

Politicians doing what they have to to be re-elected: check.

Unions doing what they have to to keep their jobs: check.

Blame being placed everywhere but where it belongs: check.

When you do a job, get your money now. Or, do a risk assessment and hedge your possible losses. Or, quit your complaining- because you allowed yourself to be screwed. You trusted a bunch of sociopaths to care for your future. Screw me once, shame on them, screw me for 235 years, shame on me.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:44 | Link to Comment Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

one should not seek raises that mitigate inflation? Did you mean to substitute sociopath for criminal?

 

I see you make no mention of criminality in your "very little analysis" and so it falls far short of placing the blame "where it belongs".

 

YOU HAVE BEEN ROBBED, because your greed exceeded your foresight and intelligence.

Any given hour I could sit on my porch and observe the passing of several police cars. I live secure in knowing police are so plentiful that if need be they can muster enough officers to raid every house within one square mile without logging overtime.

People have been robbed because the top 10% have no real fear of enforcement action for their criminal activity. If an individual robs a local bank dozens of police respond guns a blazing for a crime that may net $5K. Plug your fucking risk assessment table in and compare on a cost benefit to the trillions stolen by TBTF inc. Seems to me we should have seen SWAT at several TBTF...perhaps raids at the Fed Res and government entities as well.

Your suggestion that Americans expect to be cared for when all they ask is equal protection and treatment under the law IS the problem Sean.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/3150319/Richard-Fuld-...

 

Mr Fuld, who has been testifying on the financial crisis before the US House Oversight Committee, was attacked on a Sunday shortly after it was announced that the banking giant was bankrupt.

Following rumours that the incident had occurred, Vicki Ward, a US journalist, said "two very senior sources - one incredibly senior source" had confirmed it to her. "He went to the gym after ... Lehman was announced as going under," she told CNBC. "He was on a treadmill with a heart monitor on. Someone was in the corner, pumping iron and he walked over and he knocked him out cold.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:58 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Where did I suggest a person shouldn't seek a raise?  I merely stated you should get paid now. not a promise for later- that is refered to as speculation and you should hedge risk. Oh wait, you want a guarantee! Funny, life doesn't have those, except for the potential marks that believe their union and elected officials.

Criminals? If they were criminals, they would be prosecuted, yes? Oh wait, they paid off the guys so they could write the legislation that keeps the government from prosecuting them before judges they own outright. 

Equal treatment? You aren't very bright, are you? When has America ever provided equal treatment? When have the rich and priviledged ever been anything but rich and priviledged? Why are prisons overflowing with the poor? Why are there different prisons for white and blue collar crime? Why are bankers allowed free loans and guaranteed interest? 

If you can understand this, then you should be capable of making the necessary adjustments to protect yourself, instead of crying in the schoolyard about how life is unfair. Boohoo, the government lied!

They ALL lie, everyone of them. They exist for the benefit of the few. They think of people as cattle and use them accordingly. Either get smart or live disappointed.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 12:12 | Link to Comment Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

the facade of some reasonable systemic balance has evaporated as never before. what kind of an imbecile publicly advocates acceptance of open criminality? you can call pointing the facts out whining and crying if it makes you feel better honey.

 

stick your feigned concern and unsolicited advice someplace that might please you.

 

my personal journey has been and will continue to be excellent thank you very much.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

What kind of moron decries crimes that don't exist?  I never advocated criminality, I pointed out what any well informed citizen should know- the system is rigged against us.

If you ever get your head out of your ass and quit blaming everyone but yourself, you might find the way out. 

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:58 | Link to Comment sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Actually, I would suggest that defaults are not priced in. Otherwise you would see interest rates much higher as you see in European nations using the Euro that are asking for bailouts that ultimately fail.

What I do think is priced in is the idea that the defaults will be papered over with massive printing or bailouts by the tax payer (through the FRB). More theft of the US citizens.

 

Priced in defaults without bailouts would be much lower equity prices and much higher interest rates.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:23 | Link to Comment Born-Again Bankster
Born-Again Bankster's picture

Congratulations!

 

You've destroyed the vile red Ben Bernanke and the Fed Falcon and saved the Universe.  Consider yourself a hero. 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:25 | Link to Comment Born-Again Bankster
Born-Again Bankster's picture

Isn't it B, A?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:57 | Link to Comment jonan
jonan's picture

"select - start" only if you want two players...

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 14:12 | Link to Comment SemperFord
SemperFord's picture

Contra Bitchez!!!

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:00 | Link to Comment reader2010
reader2010's picture

 

Whitney was instructed to do the bad-mouthing so that those insiders could take the other side of the trade. It is never what it appears to be. Got it? 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:02 | Link to Comment Zionist Jew
Zionist Jew's picture

Stockton is the asshole of the I-5 corridor, and bankruptcy is the wrong choice.

 

I say move out the In N Out Burger Distribution Center (The only asset of value in Stockton), and let the Zionist Empire have it's NeoReichstag.  October Surprise???

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:01 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Thought the distribution center was in Lathrop, but I get your point.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:43 | Link to Comment Idiocracy
Idiocracy's picture

premature downgradulation

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:14 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

always better to be too early, than one day late

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 03:34 | Link to Comment Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

....always better to be too early, than one day late...

No.  Not at all.  Being early is the same as being wrong.  Whitney was DEAD WRONG in her call.  I'd rather be a day late on my muni shorts than to have started short positions in Sept 2010 when Whitney was carnival barking about a $100B+ implosion by the end of 2011.*  

Instead, by summer 2011, muni defaults had fallen by 60% from the prior year. In fact, Brighton Alabama was the only municipality to miss a general obligation debt payment in 2011.**  Take a look at MUB - iShares Muni ETF - and how it performed in 2011 when muni's were supposedly going to implode. Had you taken her advice, you would have been smoked out of your positions.

And there's no evidence whatsoever that QE2 or Operation Twist somehow kept a bid in the muni market and delayed its imminent collapse.   

MF

** http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-29/whitney-gets-one-out-of-billion...

60 Minutes interview

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 05:39 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I wasn't. Made a muni call (and we're long that space too) back when the Republicans took over the House and the index got SLAMMED. Ahhh, the "moving the ENTIRE market days." The fact of the matter is so much liquidity is getting annihilated it's amazing anything is being financed right now...and since equities are far from dead that's sucking up a lot of liquidity is it not?...and so are the "Fed front-runners" who still haven't been wrong yet...what's left over? PEANUTS! And that's a HUGE payroll to meet...is it not? And have i even brought up short sellers yet? Noooooooo.......

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:16 | Link to Comment Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

one word....bailouts.

 

Meridith was simply unaware of the depth of the Fed's treacherous liquidity programs. Refusing to lift the rug does not render the dirt underneath nonexistent.

 

Truth is Meredith's prediction was printed over giving locales a window to adjust. Dead right?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 12:47 | Link to Comment Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Bailouts?  What bailouts?

When she made her call QE2 had already been announced.

The only Fed liquidity program to be initiated after her call was Operation Twist, which did NOTHING for municipalities.  

Plus, if you're saying that QE2 and/or Operation Twist somehow saved the muni bond market, then you're also calling Bernanke's program a success, which, of course, no one at ZH would ever be caught saying. 

MF

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:17 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Stockton now, many to follow.

The war between the last bastion and Alamo of unions, i.e. government employees, and taxpayers, is only beginning to heat up.

Taxpayers can't afford the present level of inefficiency, redundancy and bloat currently being served up by their local, unionized, government job banks, and are being bled dry.

Gee, I wonder what the outcome will be?

Fireworks will last well past the 4th of July.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:39 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

48% of the recently passed levy in my town goes to pay for government retiree benefits. Five years from now 65% of the money will go to pay for pensions. Hmmmm.

Still, people voted to pass it. I voted against it, but now an extra $40 a month goes out of my paycheck to the city. The backers of the levy claimed it needed to pass to keep firefighters and police. We have 28 squad cars and the tallest building is 8 stories, that is a section 8 building not even owned by my city, let that burn. Our school system can't hire new teachers until a pensioner dies, thanks to the average pension package worth $90k.

Four cops, one fire engine, is all we need. My neighbors would rather take care of the local burglar ourselves, the cops haven't done shit. If it's some punk 16 yr old kid, I'll have no problem blowing his guts allover the sidewalk. His friends probably won't think it's cool anymore. If it's trash from the ghetto, bring the war, we're ready.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:52 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That shit just irritates the crap out of me. The voters are fucking stupid. They vote to give the people lording over them better benefits than they will ever have. Fucking retards. I'll be glad when it all burns.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:58 | Link to Comment lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

the unions control the polling places. ballots misplaced; others found.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:08 | Link to Comment natty light
natty light's picture

I think a lot of retirees support it out of fear. It is basically a protection racket.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:34 | Link to Comment goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

In our small town, the school employees and their families vote themselves new schools, raises, levies etc. That's a classic stockton.

Schools are indoctrination centers offering nothing but child incarceration for the bulk of the weekday.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:05 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Get ready to get irritated until your ass bleeds.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:35 | Link to Comment krispkritter
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:27 | Link to Comment JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

Did you ever consider it might be time to move?

People if your town sucks and the voters are idiots, then you get what you deserve by staying.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:29 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It seems to be a nationwide syndrome.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:50 | Link to Comment Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

"If it's trash from the ghetto, bring the war, we're ready."

Dude. I LIKE your attitude!

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:12 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Or...his friends will put a bullet in your deeply ignorant ass.

 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:16 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

You got that right.

And now the only legal way out is bankruptcy, by each town, city, and county in that situation. So a cheers to Stockton if they really go through the whole chapter 9, they are leading the way.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 00:46 | Link to Comment jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture

Ask George Zimmerman how that has worked out for him so far. He would probably tell you to rethink blowing that 16year old punks guts all over the sidewalk.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 03:54 | Link to Comment ragequit
ragequit's picture

Why are we blaming a group of low to middle class workers, but not the rich executives who are forcing money out of those tax brackets into their own coffers?

Unions were blowback from unacceptable working conditions and no minimum wage.

Why the fuck are we fighting among ourselves while the Bernank and his rich board of director asshole friends are laughing at us while pulling the strings? Its one of the largest reasons why these fuckers stay in power.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:02 | Link to Comment skipjack
skipjack's picture

Why ?  Because theft is wrong, no matter who does it.  I don't want Bernanke devaluing the $, nor do I want that same devalued $ stolen from my pocket by the goon unions who use government taxes to get pay for their members that's far greater than any value they impart.  What part of theft do you not get ?  It's wrong no matter who does it.  If you are so incapable of keeping two targets in mind, then I suggest you get out of the way and let those more capable take over in this fight.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment ragequit
ragequit's picture

good luck fighting to fronts at once then.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:45 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I've been premature a few times. The result is three kids.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:57 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Premature ejaculation?  There ain't no such thing as premature ejaculation.

When I cum, it's at EXACTLY the right time!

~The Great Dave Chappelle

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:51 | Link to Comment John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

"Meredith Whitney wasn't wrong, just premature."

Baloney.  Meredith Whitney made a specific prediction for a specific time period and her prediction was not even remotely close to being right.  There are no mulligans re. such bold predictions.  Her prediction was monumentally wrong.

As an aside and as an FYI, does anyone on this thread care to know what the average cumulative default rate on all muni bonds rated Aaa by Moody's between 1970 and 2011 was?  Try 0.00%.  You can also read about the very low default rate on all munis rated as investment-grade by Moody's between 1970 and 2011.  It is really low...

http://www.nhhefa.com/documents/moodysMunicipalDefaultStudy1970-2011.pdf

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:11 | Link to Comment shuckster
shuckster's picture

M Whitney made her prediction and the political reaction to it was to paper over it - ie more bond issuances. If she'd kept mum, muni's would have started defaulting WAY ealier, but because she came out about it, actions were taken to divert attention - the default monster was moved to another hole - it's like whack-a-mole - the defaults always pop up somewhere else - personal defaults perhaps. Looks like the debt whackamole has popped back up out of the Muni hole again...

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 09:18 | Link to Comment John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

Demand for munis has been robust in 2012.  Here is a link to a decent article on the subject.

http://www.bondbuyer.com/issues/121_123/refundings-muni-market-coupons-1...

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:15 | Link to Comment Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

If you believe that the period 1970 to 2011 provides a distribution you can rely on for the period 2012 to 2018, then by all means base your investing upon that data.  As for those who fault Whitney because the muni short in certain states has been a negative carry trade, it seems to me premature to assert that.  However, I do realize that most investors in muni bonds are extremely averse to negative carry trades.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:24 | Link to Comment Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

And RE never went down either.....oops, except when the bubble burst. It is beyond evident that munis are in trouble. And they aren't the only ones.  Not a day goes by without a city threatening BK.  East coast, west coast, midwest.....doesn't matter. The RE bubble caused this crisis too. Rising RE = rising property taxes=rising wages for your teachers, firemen and popo.  Now we are going in full reverse. And the public unions don't like it much. 

 

I hear Moody's made some pretty good "AAA" calls on MBS's, too.  Hope you invested in them as well.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:44 | Link to Comment John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

"I hear Moody's made some pretty good "AAA" calls on MBS's, too. Hope you invested in them as well."

The issue here is munis.  The default rate on all munis rated as investment-grade by Moody's between 1970 and 2011 was exceptionally low.  I posted a link with the data.  Feel free to read and learn.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:51 | Link to Comment John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

"If you believe that the period 1970 to 2011 provides a distribution you can rely on for the period 2012 to 2018, then by all means base your investing upon that data."

I choose munis based upon what I believe is the financial viability of the bond issuer.  I wouldn't touch ANY munis issued in the state of California (or Illinois) for that matter.  Therefore, I consider it rather irrelevant to my portfolio of munis that Stockton, California is in a pinch.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:37 | Link to Comment geoffb
geoffb's picture

As always, past performance is a perfect predictor of future results. And, of course, all investments involve risk. Well except muni bonds, so please don't worry about consulting a professional before making any investment.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:57 | Link to Comment John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

"As always, past performance is a perfect predictor of future results."

Nobody here claimed that.  I simply pointed out a 41-year track record re. munis rated investment-grade by Moody's.

 

"And, of course, all investments involve risk. Well except muni bonds..."

I never claimed munis were without risk.

 

"...so please don't worry about consulting a professional before making any investment."

I'm pretty sure I won't be seeking your sage advice re. investments...

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 14:59 | Link to Comment Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

"Baloney.  Meredith Whitney made a specific prediction for a specific time period and her prediction was not even remotely close to being right."

 

Riiiiight.....    So you're giving a pass to the rest who all were cheerleading "Everything is rainbows and unicorns to infinity."  

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:07 | Link to Comment John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

"So you're giving a pass to the rest who all were cheerleading "Everything is rainbows and unicorns to infinity."

Weak attempt at a straw man.  Try again.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:23 | Link to Comment Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

When ObamaMugabe and the ClownCongress
print 1 trillion Fedgov occupation script, and give it to
States, cities and counties....it kicks the can a ways.

In short, who can rationally plan/foresee with the present
interventionist regime?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:15 | Link to Comment Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

And the odds that Chase or Goldman were involved somewhere are 99.8%!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:21 | Link to Comment veyron
veyron's picture

Way too low son ... 

 

120% chance that goldman was involved

99% chance that chase was involved

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:13 | Link to Comment shuckster
shuckster's picture

At 300:1 leverage, the chances are actually somewhere between 29,999% and 30,001%

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:04 | Link to Comment sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

But absolutely no doubt that an incompetent local government was 100% was involved. After all, if you don't take the mob money, then you don't owe the mob.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:50 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

That's...that's a bummer man - The Dude

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:30 | Link to Comment battle axe
battle axe's picture

The State of California to the rescue, Get Governor Moonbeam on the phone. Oh wait, Calif is about to go Bankrupt. Never-mind.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:28 | Link to Comment mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

She predicted about 1,000 times more than has happened. There's always been a few.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:11 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

America..

 

fuck yeah!

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:44 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"Gary, to prove you are loyal to our cause I want you to..."

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

but SP is still magically over 800! so everything is just fine.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment Number 156
Number 156's picture

Your failure is now complete.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

this is what happens when you pay ticket writers to retire at 45 and make more retired than working

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:22 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

watch out for more tickets.... 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Conman
Conman's picture

Yup if you read the article, the idea for making up revenue was MORE TRAFFIC/PARKING TICKETS!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:58 | Link to Comment Jena
Jena's picture

Surveillance via drones.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:16 | Link to Comment EverythingEviL
EverythingEviL's picture

They are not joking either. I live in Stockton, I made a coffee run for myself and fellow employees. I had 4 coffees on the floor board of my car and pulled up to a stop sign creeping at about 5 miles an hour. This was on a Sunday morning at 8 am, not a soul on the street. I get about 1 minute down the road when I see lights flashing behind me, I pull over. Cop walks up to the window and says, and I shit you not, "You blew the stop sign back there, it was so blatant and dangerous that I just can't let it go. It was just too much. " I said, "Officer I came to the stop as slow as I possibly could, I have all this coffee here and I'm driving as slow and careful as possible so as not to spill it all over my car. I made a right turn at the stop sign, and I know I came to a stop." He says "No, you blatantly blew right through it, end of story." I got the fine in the mail a week ago, 252 dollars. With no recourse, no way to prove the cop is full of shit, I have to pay or else....whatever the consequences would be. This is what these mother fuckers are doing instead of doing any REAL Police work. I have always tried maintain a healthy respect for law enforcement but when you see them just out right trying to take people's money for bs nonsense it fucking pisses you off and I can't help but have some hatred for these fuckers because I know it's not only happening to me. I know it sounds petty but you can't make this kind of shit up. They are thieves and they deserve whatever this fucked up system has in store for them.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:38 | Link to Comment goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Doesn't sound petty. It's extortion.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:07 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I've got some friends in SPD and Manteca PD who occasionally has to follow a car thief up there.  They BOTH tell me there are places where SPD cars simply will not go, and I beleive it.  How's that for community oriented policing - racially profiling people who look like they WON'T shoot you.

As an aside, I was once coaching swimming at Edison (not for) Edison High and a bunch of kids were jumping in front of the traffic on MLK (go figure).  A motorcycle cop got out to cite them for jaywalking and they IMMEDIATELY flashmobbed and started beating the shit out of him right there on the curb.  Fortunately for the cop, these dumbasses forgot that the PD station is only about 5 blocks north and they got flash mobbed themselves...lovely city Stockton.  I'm proud to say I will never even see that place again.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 17:56 | Link to Comment Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

...lovely city Stockton...

 

C'mon, I haven't had my home broken into since last October.  My car's only been stolen once in the last 3 years.  We're only averaging an arrest every 39 minutes. (according to the SPOA's billboards reminding us at every other intersection) and I think the murder rate is down to less than one a week.  What's not to love? 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 21:08 | Link to Comment EverythingEviL
EverythingEviL's picture

I know, those billboards are hilarious right? What a joke...I know what they aren't doing, stopping murders!

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:51 | Link to Comment DavidJ
DavidJ's picture

$252 for not coming to a complete stop, and instead a slow crawl thrrough, at a stop sign when the streets are empty?

 

That is absurd.  Ridiculous. The punishment does not fit the crime.

 

Ok. I can see $25 or so.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:22 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

dupe

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:14 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

This is what happens when you pour millions into attempting to gentrify a shithole like Stockton.

 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

China stepping in with a last minute solution would be a hoot.....

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:00 | Link to Comment lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

they're buying san francisco.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:49 | Link to Comment SoCalBusted
SoCalBusted's picture

...and LA

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:39 | Link to Comment geoffb
geoffb's picture

Eurobonds!!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Starting to hit close to home...I am in Sac, yippeeee!

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:37 | Link to Comment Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Not to worry, as long as Teichert keeps that gold coming, Sacramento's lips will remain surgically attached to DC's teat.  imho.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:16 | Link to Comment Joke Heros
Joke Heros's picture

Looking forward to this continuing here in CA, there are some cities that loaded their diapers when the so called "Redevelopment Agency" funds were pulled. Tick tock

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:16 | Link to Comment bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

Who insures Stockton's bonds?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:32 | Link to Comment Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

I understnd Wells Fargo ended up with 3 properties developed with defaulted bond funds.  They're at liberty to collect parking fees, (I believe the monies were used to construct parking facilities in the downtown redevelopment program undertaken shortly before the housing meltdown) or they can sell, trade or further develop.  Besides, the money they used to buy the bonds was conjured from nothing anyway so what's the big deal?  They now have some BASAL positive paper to tout.

 

Chapter 9 is the solution, not the problem.  Criminal lawmakers allowing the residential mortgage market to become the greatest fraudulent activity in the history of the globe, (second only to the fed itself), is the real problem.  But we all know the liklihood of Holder actually being interested in persuing that truth is exactly nill.

 

If allowed to proceed with the bankruptcy, I think Stockton will end up in a much better condition 10 years from now than the rest of pretenders continuing to rely on central planning scraps and deceit. 

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:16 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

You've obviously never been to Stockton.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:58 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

the only place worse in Ca. is Bakersfield.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 10:10 | Link to Comment Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Well, if you must know, I've been here since '79.  Came from the east bay suburbs to live in the flatland.  Stockton is a great place to be from.  When the kids were little we'd play north/south/east or west.  They'd pick a direction and we'd drive till noon and eat lunch.  Then we'd horse around all day before piling back in the truck and driving home to sleep in our own beds that night. 

And where could we end up for the day?  Monterey, Santa Cruz, San Francisco, Half Moon Bay, Angel Island, Napa/Sonoma, Berkeley Hills, Mt. Diablo, Lake Tahoe, Reno, Feather River, Sacramento, Yosemite, etc., etc...

Stockton, it's a great place to be from. 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:17 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

why do they all keep avoiding Bankruptcy..............let it happen.......Everywhere

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:20 | Link to Comment nah
nah's picture

please

.

save me

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:01 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

By the power of Greyskull I will save you from that evil Obummer ..... Er I mean Skeletor!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!