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Behind The Scenes European Panic As Interbank Liquidity At Worst Level Ever

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Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:17 | 1844279 Irish66
Irish66's picture

Stark is quitting

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:23 | 1844294 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

Howard, Tony or Jurgen? </s>

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:25 | 1844301 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

"Here, hold this bag."

"I'm not holding the bag, you hold it."


Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:50 | 1844363 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

"Hi guys. What's in the bag?"  -Timmay

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:57 | 1844391 CPL
CPL's picture

"Super awesome secret is what's in the bag friend!!  Just...here...take a peek."

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:40 | 1844561 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It's so dark in the bag... I can't see the bottom... THAT'S AWSOME!!


Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:52 | 1849525 therealmonty
therealmonty's picture

"Just shut up and hold it...I don't care if it stinks or its heavy."  

"Hey, where are you going?"

"Just hold the bag ok, I'll be right back, seriously, I'll be back in a minute."

"Then why are you getting on that LearJet?"



Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:52 | 1844282 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

It's not a multiplier myth.  There's a basic accounting identity that underlies Keynesian economics.  aggregate income = aggregate output . As a larger share of income is not consumed, but saved, less national product is produced.  Thus firms tend to layoff ppl over the long run, as an economy advances, and more average wealth is created, and saved.  As the number of  lay offs increase,  aggregate demand swoons, feeding a negative feedback loop (no job -> less consumption -> less output -> more layoffs).  A way to mediate this is for  savings to be directed to entrepreneurs, who start new entreprises, employing ppl, buffering the effects of increased savings.


Therefore as more money is parked in savings account and not distributed to small-medium businesses, which hire new workers, jobless rates will increase.  This too has a multiplying effect in so far as redistribution of savings is a reflexive mechanism to mollify the negative feedback loop of increased savings (the paradox of thift).


Therefore if 1.6T is parked @ the ECB, and the jobless rate is increasing, capital  is not flowing to new startups, which will hire new workers, whom will consume more, and collectively push up aggregate demand.  This is the underlying assumption of Schumpeters's creative destruction.


This has implications for emerging markets, as a lot of Euro bank lending is directed there.  It also may be  a partial explanation for deceleration of emerging market output in the next 6 month.


It's vital we look @ the mechanism for the redistribution of capital (finance industry), because if breaks down, or it is inefficient (prioritizing short run over long run), economies will falter.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:01 | 1844399 CPL
CPL's picture

That would be true if that were a surplus, but you fail to note that the entire pile is all debt accumulating interests.  First time I've heard of a Keynesian apologist that stupid.  And a socialist to boot, I knew banks ran red with the blood of Marx in their veins. 

So when should we start handing out the debt to the public?  Today, tomorrow?  How about next week?


Maybe you'll take the lion's share of it, you seem to genuinely think there is something good in all this so since you opened your mouth...



Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:01 | 1844400 gmak
gmak's picture

I would argue with the Keynesian economics and say that the savings provide capital for entrepreneurs to increase productivity (new machines), or build new businesses - both of which provide more goods, or the same goods at cheaper prices. The more goods approach from new businesses suggests increased employment - which will increase both spending and saving  = a small virtuous cycle.

I agree that the 1.6T parked at the ECB does not get used as capital. It is simply safe keeping for what will be needed to fill the hole that exists behind the accounting fraud that is impaired loans on all the banks' books.


If the "finance industry" breaks down, there is still a solid local mechanism for capital distribution called savings and loans, or community banks. No need to shuffle paper through the investment banking skimmers.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:12 | 1844445 CPL
CPL's picture

You must be new here as well,



Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:19 | 1844283 Fips_OnTheSpot
Fips_OnTheSpot's picture

touch the sky..

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:25 | 1844299 spankfish
Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:22 | 1844286 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

The panic is all too visible, in times like these nothing "behind the scenes" stays there for long.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:23 | 1844289 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Does interbank still matter when all banks that matter can just go to either the ECB or FED and get whatever liquidity they need?

Perhaps no banking collapse but someone else gets squeezed.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:23 | 1844290 Mongo
Mongo's picture

Even internet is slowing down due to the sucking up of 1s and 0s

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:25 | 1844303 HD
HD's picture

There is no such thing as two...


Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:23 | 1844291 MindTheGAP
MindTheGAP's picture

The Greek MP Panos Kamenos revealed that DEXIA gained 10bn euros by the Euro exchange because of the announcement of the referendum by GPap. Note that the management of this bet was in the hands of UNIGESTION for which one of the strategy designers is the brother of GPap, Andrikos Papandreou! So he had internal informations from his brother! These clowns should be in jail!!!

Have a look at the following



Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:01 | 1844402 agent default
agent default's picture

Insiders Bithcez!

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:23 | 1844293 HD
HD's picture

I'm voting "No" on Proposition ENDLESS BS this November...

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:27 | 1844311 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Didn't you hear?  They just cancelled the vote.  Feel free to fill out a comment card though, because your opinion still matters...

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:38 | 1844334 HD
HD's picture

WHAT?!  Damn it, I wanted one of those "I Voted" stickers, like they give kindergarteners little gold stars for coloring in the lines.

Maybe they will give out "I was denied my vote and all I got was a devalued currency" T-Shirt. Those would be worth something on eBay.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:24 | 1844295 pendragon
pendragon's picture

anyone notice that europe is already deep in recession witness today's disastrous pmi readings. but clearly fundamentals are irrelevant to the euro traders just whether or not greece has a referendum

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:25 | 1844304 Irish66
Irish66's picture

Yesterday UK treasury announced they are making contingency plans for the fall of Euro, also Sarcozy's comment breakup of Euro means will definietly result in EU and imminent recession due to Greece crisis, all these events and comments make me think Euro is not going to survive for the whole of 2012. comment by Himaz edited by Reuters_RossChainey 6:30 AM

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:29 | 1844317 Hansel
Hansel's picture

But when American PMI or ISM readings miss, the groupthink is to flock to dollars.  Why can't the euro crowd play the same game?

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:14 | 1844452 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Yes.  European recession seems unavoidable at this point.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:42 | 1844570 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Yes.... I expect the true Depression to start in about 7 weeks... that's when my mother in law comes over for the holidays....


Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:24 | 1844296 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

And the XLF goes up, and up, and up, and up.....


Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:48 | 1844592 sumo
sumo's picture

Thanks for the heads up. Stink bids locked and loaded.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:58 | 1844643 sumo
sumo's picture


Call it the mother of all margin calls: Up to 50,000 former customers of bankrupt broker MF Global must find some $1 billion in additional collateral almost overnight, or be forced out of their trades.


Come Friday, with the mass transfer of commodity trading accounts from Jon Corzine's fallen firm to six of its erstwhile rivals, margin clerks will be wrapping up a reckoning of how much additional money is needed to cover millions of positions. Clients who can't quickly meet their margin will have to liquidate, making for a tumultuous day's trade....


Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:24 | 1844298 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Guy Sorman argued in Le Monde that G-Pap was trying to minimize the risk of a marxist revolution or some other authoritarian movement, given the modern history of the country. Well, I wonder how that will be seen now, since there is no referendum at all.


Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:45 | 1844351 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Authoritarian movement?! There is nothing to suggest a Marxist or 'authoritarian' movement in Greece or elsewhere for that matter. Exactly the opposite, counter-authority. Put down shitty articles and wake up son. 

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:54 | 1844379 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

I was just summarizing his article, not agreeing with him; wanted to add a viewpoint to the discussion.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:11 | 1844419 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

The propaganda/rumor/blame that is starting to emerge in the EU media against the happenings in Greece is absolutely insane.

There are no viewpoints, at least not 'objective' ones, everybody has something at stake here and Le Monde is no different.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:17 | 1844469 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

I agree with you. It's sad to watch this. See, for years I was a reader of German ZEIT - but not anymore. Once it was one of the strongest democratic papers here and now it's just cheap EU propaganda. Somehow it is ironic - because the only 'authoritarian movement' is within the EU itself.

It even dawns to people that were in favour of the EU here.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:31 | 1844524 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Perhaps we're in for a grim state of affairs but I fear we're going to see the ugly nationalism rise again in Europe. Germans are at fault, Greeks are fault too for not holding their own governments accountable for a good decade or so. All because the credit was flowing and now that it's reversed the real perps are trying to confuse who the blame falls on.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 10:29 | 1845063 QuietCorday
QuietCorday's picture

Counter-authoritarianism against a "regime" very easily creates an environment in which a new authoritarianism is born that ends up being far more hardcore and authoritarian than the previous state of play. Take Revolutionary France, for example, or post-revolutionary Iran, or the biggie -- Germany's NSDAP.

It is really worth remembering that many youths in the Nazi party thought they were "revolutionary socialists", fighting against the old paradigms of both Weimarism and Imperial Germany; in the beginning, they were counter-authority until they became the authority -- and we all know what happened then. Laurence Rees underscores this in one of his interviews with a former Nazi party member. 

The thing with Greece is that the spectrum of political opinion extends far wider than in Britain or the US and is much more radical -- to the extent, there are right wing tavernas and left-wing ones in some towns, and there can be a lot of political graffitti, depending on where you are. I lived and worked over there in the noughties, and my local cobbler had a picture of Lenin on his shop wall above the counter -- now I have travelled and worked all over Europe and the ME, and I have never seen a shop keeper openly display a picture of Lenin, unless he/she is running a Soviet "theme" bar. Again, the right wing in Greece extends very far to the right, to almost jackboot fascist.

In chaos, Greece is a place where, I would suggest, all bets are off.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:25 | 1844302 HITMAN56
HITMAN56's picture

Let it burn already

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:26 | 1844307 knight99
knight99's picture

Euro strength in the face of this liquidity crisis is stunning. Hard to be right on all the macro calls and still be loosing money shorting the fking euro.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:28 | 1844313 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Patience is a virtue. And so are manageable positions:)

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:32 | 1844325 Hansel
Hansel's picture

America had a 'liquidity' (actually solvency) crisis in 2008 and everyone panicked into dollars.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:27 | 1844312 EL INDIO
EL INDIO's picture

The stress is also visible in the GSR which is above 50 after it went down to the low 30s earlier in the year.

Gold outporforming Silver is usually a bad sign.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:37 | 1844335 qussl3
qussl3's picture


Although COT positioning is wildly bullish, almost every major economic bloc is going backwards, what that would do to ratings might be enough to push Italy into the drink and in the process drag France with it.

There is no way Germany can bail everyone out.

They will print but not before its politically acceptable.

I think we may see GSR 60 before 40.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:44 | 1844346 EL INDIO
EL INDIO's picture

I think so. a GSR of between 60 and 70 would probably correspond to silver around $20. This would erase all 2010-2011 gains not only for silver but possibly for all commodities. At that point we may see some fed action.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:51 | 1844366 qussl3
qussl3's picture

That's exactly what China wants too, although they wont say it.

The pretzels they are turning now is rather amusing.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 07:48 | 1844357 max2205
max2205's picture

Oh newer and more colorful charts. How ARE they keeping these markets up. The morgue is closed, full of bears and leveraged shorters

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 08:11 | 1844440 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It's been 11 months since I shorted any stock... this week I bought some and I'm down 12% already...

Again it's a reminder for me to fucking stay out of this market....


Fri, 11/04/2011 - 12:14 | 1845454 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

I agree. If you are not creating the information in this circus stay back. Way back. Fires are nice because from a distance they warm you. Jump in and what was once warming turns into pure hell.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 09:13 | 1844711 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

Because "democracy" was a lie...something they told us we had...but didn't.

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