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Behold The Greek Debt Slavery "To Do" Checklist Permitting It To Bail Out Europe's Insolvent Banks

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Yesterday, in our daily list of shocking discoveries of just how far forward Greece is willing to bend over, we realized that not only will Greece not receive a penny (or is that a drachma?) from Europe, but it itself will have to fund the European bank bailout via a Greek-funded Escrow account. In today's 'insult to rape' chronicles, we discover that before Greece is even given permission to bail out Europe's banks, its creditors first demand that the province of Bavaria Sachs, formerly known as Greece, satisfy a checklist of 38 specific conditions, which the now fully colonized nation will have to complete before the end of the month (so in about 5 days), before it is permitted to transfer taxpayer cash to French, German, Italian and Spanish banks. How anyone, even the world's most degraded debt slave, is willing to subject themselves to such humiliation is simply inconceivable.

The FT has the subhuman degradation details:

The reforms, spelt out in three separate memoranda of a combined 90 pages, are the price that Greece has agreed to pay to obtain a €130bn second bail-out and avoid a sovereign default that the government feared would throw Greek society into turmoil.

 

They range from the sweeping – overhauling judicial procedures, centralising health insurance, completing an accurate land registry – to the mundane – buying a new computer system for tax collectors, changing the way drugs are prescribed and setting minimum crude oil stocks.

 

The 38 measures are a mix of laws that must be passed by parliament, ministerial decisions and presidential decrees that affect a complete cross-section of Greek economic activity, from health spending to municipal administration to tax collection.

 

Only a handful of the measures are listed as passed or in the process of being implemented, including a highly publicised €300m in pension reductions and €325m in other spending cuts. The other reforms are grouped under six categories, though most of the changes fall under spending cuts, bank regulations, and economic reforms.

 

Among the measures that must be completed in the next seven days are reducing state spending on pharmaceuticals by €1.1bn; completing 75 full-scale audits and 225 value added tax audits of large taxpayers; and liberalising professions such as beauty salons, tour guides and diet centres.

 

Even the longer-term reforms must be completed quickly. A draft 49-page “memorandum of understanding on specific economic policy conditionality”, dated February 9, includes dozens of measures that must be completed in the first half of the year.

And so forth.

Sarcasm aside, that this is merely a strawman loophole for Germany to say on March 1 that Greece has not completed the measure is beyond glaringly obvious. Which explains why the idiot algos who have taken this development as good news have sent the EURUSD to nearly 3 month highs.

It also goes without saying that one should wait for Tom Stolper to go long the EURUSD before shorting the pair with infinite LTRO funded (in exchange for compressed methane as collateral) leverage.

 


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Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:43 | Link to Comment Waffen
Waffen's picture

Default Bitchez?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:45 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

"Bavaria Sachs" cute.  How about "Goldman am Main"?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

When do they deliver the women and young girls?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:52 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

How do they say Massa in Greek?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:58 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

don't borrow money at interest.

This lesson was so ingrained that 2 of the west's major religions banned it for centuries.  The other significant major western religion has it as an affirmative commandment to use usury against members outside the ethnic clan.

The wisdom here is in both cases is that people of ordinary intelligence cannot understand compound interest.  They just can't.  They're incapable of it.  Therefore, it is consistent with public policy that it should be banned.

The lenders descended on "free" blacks like locusts and performed interest tricks that turned them right back into slaves.  Sharecroppers ended up working for a year or two straight just to pay a lender

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:03 | Link to Comment Waffen
Waffen's picture

The problem is not the lack of average intelligence.  The problem is that the unintelligent are duped into usery; that money inflates the costs of goods, causing the intelligent to also engage in usury to compete.

 

The problem is the evil scum parasitcally feed off of productive classes and then cry fowl when we name them.   talmudic jews for example

 

 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:12 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

uh, yeah the problem is definitely that.  People don't get exponential growth.  This is precisely why all these interest schedules and disclosures are on lending docs.  They are trying to generate "informed consent."

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:00 | Link to Comment TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Interest isn't the problem. Interest is a good thing because without it, nobody would lend. Being able to borrow is very beneficial to society if those resources are put to PRODUCTIVE use. The problem is that the risks of making bad loans aren't being born by the lender, therefore encouraging bad loans to be made that can never be paid back. Society, then, is the big loser for bailing out the lender and not benefiting from a productive allocation of resources.

TheSilverJournal.com

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:13 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

the real problem is that immoral and amoral people constantly work themselves into a position to take advantage of others who are less sophisticated... through any and all means.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:37 | Link to Comment TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

All you can do is stop people from committing fraud and stop bailing out people that make bad loans. Making incompetence illegal is impossible. But bailing out incompetence only perpetuates the incompetent behavior.

TheSilverJournal.com

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:21 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Interest is a good thing because without it, nobody would lend

 

That's not true at all. Ever heard of a dividend? That isn't interest. A dividend is a payment as a reward for PRODUCTIVE enterprise that the loan was able to generate. 

 

Interest is payment REGARDLESS of productive enterprise. There is ZERO risk with demanding interest, but there is risk associated with dividend payments. 

 

Our problem is that some people want RISK FREE MONEY FOR NOTHING

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:40 | Link to Comment TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The risk of making a loan is with not getting paid back. There's also a risk of the currency losing value. Be careful with using phrases like zero / never / always / etc. Be even more careful when it's bold and capitalized.

TheSilverJournal.com

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:57 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

++

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:37 | Link to Comment steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

Sorry, compound interest has nothing to do with the current crisis.

- Sovereign or national level finance debts are always taken on to support/subsidize industrial firms, in this case industrial firms in Germany and France.

- Sovereign and national level finance debts are never to be paid off, this is the number one canard spread by finance analysts and salesmen. Sovereign debts are extinguished when both borrower and lender are on the same (sovereign) balance sheet (and can be canceled). Sovereigns are immortal and outlive the creditors. Sovereigns are also intended to lend on their own accounts in their own currencies, something that few European country can do, this includes Germany.

- The EU has changed the lending rules regarding sovereigns treating them as firms or individuals. This is simply extortion that can only take place when there are no effective sovereign governments. The Greeks have no government only stooges for the banks.

- The sovereign will repudiate the debts. Other than the extinguishment of dead-money debts as described above, this is the only way to remove sovereign debts.

- The current Greek government will not repudiate but a successor will.

- It is also possible that Greek and other terror groups will start attacking German and other EU interests. The euro will become unsupportably expensive under such circumstances.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:36 | Link to Comment Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Your points regarding sovereignty are well taken, and contribute to understanding. 

But your initial statement earned you a minus.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:37 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

I'll check with Ben Bernanke about those ZERO risk assets, thank you very much. 

..... told-ya-so... Bernanke guarantess ZERO RISK because he said in his speech that he had a helicopter that could print ZEROS and give them to me free of charge. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:41 | Link to Comment Vagabond
Vagabond's picture

This isn't complicated.  Debt based currencies are a ponzi scheme.  They rely on perpetual growth.  The same goes for fractional reserve banking.  It also relies on perpetual growth to work and it has been institutionalized.  This system cannot be sustained over the long term.  Cheap oil allowed the growth necessary to last a century, and without a new cheap energy source we're approaching the end of the road.  Everybody should be talking about what's next rather than how to kick the can.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:16 | Link to Comment ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

There should be consequnces for both making bad loans and obtaining loans which you are obviously unquallifed to service.  

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:17 | Link to Comment Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Banker's are so fucking crooked, they work to take down equity in business, farmer's land, account's, spin good companies to there crowny pet's. Interest maybe good in your view but the rot that control's the interest is the problem for society. The rot is in small town banking also not just central palnning.   

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:36 | Link to Comment TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

It's not the people that are bad, it's the system. Sure, there are some bad people in banking, but there's bad people in every industry. There's also good people too.

The banking system is fraudelent because it legalizes telling people that they can withdraw their money at any time, but in reality most of the money has been loaned out. So if a bunch of people want to withdraw their desposits at the same time, the entire thing collapses. And the FDIC only has a very small portion for insurance against a run. Of course, that's not the only exampe, but it's the core of the issue.

TheSilverJournal.com

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:49 | Link to Comment rlouis
rlouis's picture

 

Carlo Boroni should have seen the writing on the wall before he put his hand in the till.  During one of their initial confrontations, Sindona had shouted at him, “You will never be a real banker because not only are you unable to lie, you are also a man with principles.  You would never know how to use the valid weapon of blackmail!”

Michelle Sindona, the man quoted above, was the Vatican's Banker.  Pg 112 'In God's Name' by David Yallop


 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:03 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 The banking system is fraudelent because it legalizes telling people that they can withdraw their money at any time, but in reality most of the money has been loaned out. So if a bunch of people want to withdraw their desposits at the same time, the entire thing collapses.

It's worse than that. The money that's been deposited hasn't been loaned out, per se; it's become collateral for leveraged money creation. So, for instance, you deposit $100 in the bank; if someone wants to borrow $1000, the bank basically just lends them $1000 (which was literally created specifically for the loan out of thin air by the central bank), and $50 of your deposit is now collateral against that $1000.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:51 | Link to Comment Ceteris paribus
Ceteris paribus's picture

The Greeks will throw some stones, burn somthing and then go home , the police are that dumb that they have no clue as to what is going on . The army only know how to take orders as they cannot  think for themselves and the bankers will move on to the next country. I say way to go bankers keep making me money on my gold going up .Just keep farming your livestock, and if they get out of line shoot a few to remind them who is boss.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:07 | Link to Comment New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Whenever an interest-bearing loan is made, a parasite wins and the system becomes more unstable.  Especially in a fractional reserve system.  Loan paid pack?  Lender got something from nothing.  Loan defaulted but collateral not taken?  Borrower got something for nothing, plus lender gets a bailout if he bought politicians as a hedge.  Loan defaulted and collateral taken?  Lender bought a real asset with money he created from nothing.  Interest-bearing loans lead to exponential growth of the money supply and systemic instability, both of which scew the savers.  And during the inevitable crashes, bankers grab real assets for very little (printed) money.  The whole system was designed to transfer real wealth from honest people to parasites and encourage corruption at all levels of society. 

We could have PMs lent out without interest.  We could have them lent out in exchange for a share of the profits from whatever business they are financing.  Those with spare metal may want to keep it spread around to avoid risk from thieves (legal or otherwise).  The lender can be protected because the borrower can provide him an income stream if he gets cleaned out.  The borrower's business can be protected from confiscation because it is encumbered.  All this would require a legal system that isn't owned by the bankers, but it could work.  It would be similar to most of our history.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:06 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

No, the scheme you've described is not 'similar to most of our history', unless by 'our' you are demarcating a very unusual group of people.

There's nothing wrong with lending money for interest; the problem arises when non-existent money is lent.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:24 | Link to Comment Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Regulation Z does NOT require interest schedules to be on loan docs.  

You're just simply wrong. 

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment bdc63
bdc63's picture

GREECE -- SAVE YOUR COUNTRY AND FUCKING DEFAULT ALREADY.  REGARDLESS WHAT THEY TELL YOU, YOU HOLD ALL THE CARDS.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:36 | Link to Comment ptoemmes
ptoemmes's picture

I assume you are directing this at the general populace, cause I can pretty much assure you the unelected technocrats running that joint aren't listening no matter hwo loud you - or any one else - scream.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:47 | Link to Comment bdc63
bdc63's picture

Maybe another Greek non-confidence vote ... or a revolution ... or both ...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:44 | Link to Comment PhilB
PhilB's picture

The INCONCEIVABLE humiliation of the Greeks is quite understandable when taken from the politicians point of view. Politicians dont care about the people, they want to remain in power and milk the system for as long as possible. It is in their interest alone to try and meet Ze Germans demands.

 

However, as you correctly point out..the Greek people should indeed demand a default. As tough as it will be in the short term, it would be a fairer way to go, forcing the power structures to fold, fat cats to default, and forcing some chaos so that change may take place in a quicken enough time to save them from imminent slavery.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:10 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Frankly, most of what the troika are demanding are reasonable steps to get the Greek economy on a better footing.

The Greek government should pass them into law - and then immediately default on their € debts and go back on the Drachma, but without (for instance) all the ridiculous anti-competitive hairdresser cartels and non-existent tax collecting.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:02 | Link to Comment PhilB
PhilB's picture

-

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:28 | Link to Comment Likstane
Likstane's picture

"The problem is that the unintelligent are duped into usury."  That's what Trav just said!  The rest of your post is horseshit.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:05 | Link to Comment LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

One problem of lending comes when a borrower can sell his "word" even though it is worthless. If some fool wishes to "give" the borrower money in exchange for his useless "promise" to repay, then in the borrower's eyes, the foolish lender gets what he deserves. Of course if you wont lend to this type of borrower because of his history in repaying, you must be a bigot.

When enough lenders run out of good credit risks and still have money to lend, rates drop and risk must be taken on to stay competitive. All goes back to too much currency in the system.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:02 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Hey, it's tuff to watch your neighbor buy nice new shiny motorized things with borrowed money while you're still riding a bike to work, asshole.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:04 | Link to Comment Waffen
Waffen's picture

good luck keeping a job, trying to ride your bike to work while everyone else has gotten a car.

good luck buying a house when everyone has inflated the costs of homes by buying on credit

good luck etc etc

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:05 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Ya, he thinks cash grows out the wazoo or something.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

how is that a statement endorsing going into debt?  There are a lot of people who are nigga rich, and?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:24 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

same issue with education.  wildly inflated.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:52 | Link to Comment metastar
metastar's picture

I wrote the below over a year ago. It is even more true today:

I am a simple man with basic skills. I can add, subtract, multiply, and divide. I even know something about compounding interest. With these basic skills I could tell that something was not right in the housing market.

The banks, insurance companies, fed, etc. have MBAs. They have an army of MBAs. They employ teams of financial Einsteins to monitor every aspect of our economy. They have access to Googlebytes of economic data lighting up screens in control rooms which make Nasa’s mission control look like an elementary school computer lab. The computational power these systems possess is awesome. They have the WOPR. They play financial war games all day running scenario after scenario in less time than it takes to blink an eye.

Am I really supposed to believe that the leaders of banks, insurance companies, and government did not see something serious like the housing bubble coming?

I am one of those homeowners who lived a very modest life in a very modest home. I watched the economy. I studied. I planned and saved. I played by the rules as an honest, hard working, tax paying citizen. I waited patiently for the day that the bubble would burst so that I could pick up the pieces. Meanwhile, I personally know several people who lived large on credit, had a good time, and owned huge houses with huge mortgages. They laughed that I lived so conservatively. They sneered as though they were somehow better than me because of all the material possessions they had amassed (on credit).

Now they are underwater and I AM BAILING THEM OUT AGAINST MY WILL! They are keeping their houses (which are much more luxurious than mine) and so they still laugh at me. To add insult to injury, it is us tax payers who bail out banks and insurance companies whose management walk away from all this with staggering amounts of cash still in their pockets.

The moral hazard here is that responsible, good natured people will begin to realize that crime really does pay and will start looking for ways to game our corrupt system.

It is no longer about losing confidence. It is about losing hope in the legitimacy of our system.

I do not believe we can just let everything fail outright. But we do need a controlled demolition of our insolvent institutions and those responsible must be made to pay.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:04 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

Moral Hazard is such a soft term for a very dangerous, unjust and corrupting affliction.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 23:27 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

On the surface, I can sympathize your 'honest man's plight'.  However, if you are actually not the max-sheeple that you infer that you are not, then you must also recognize that you are paying your tax dollars into the system with full fore-knowledge of how that money will be used: specifically, for the abuses you mention, and also to fund the war machine, as one in five of your tax dollars provides material support for genocide and other inexcusable atrocities.

So you were sold a bill of goods.  You bought it, and now you're the bloody-handed bag-holder.  I'm sorry, but my sympathy is only surface-deep.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:20 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

That first statement in its absoluteness is just dumb.

It makes very much sense to borrow money if
1.) you will use it for investment not for consumption
2.) you see a clear and highly probable way to earn (more) money through it, to pay it back as soon as possible
3.) you have a short-term exit plan if 2 doesn't work out

And you forgot to mention which of those religions came out on top - not that I care about religions.

I also see some other people who believe they understood compound population growth, and that is would inevitably lead to mass starvation... they forgot food production can grow at a compound rate too AND NOT ONLY BY INCREASING ACREAGE, as more people means more heads and more hands, after a few years grow-up lag

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:39 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Isn't it funny Trav, you used to enrage people here (not really me though), but it's like the collective has adapted to you. 

Maybe if you raised the other middle finger in your avatar...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:59 | Link to Comment Ancona
Ancona's picture

That's OK Waffen, the Greeks can escape to within their own minds by staring at the nice rack in your avatar [like I'm doing]

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:05 | Link to Comment Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Where do these banksters get their ideas from?

September 1, 1939

Rationing, which allowed for only bare sustenance of food and medicine was quickly set up.

The Polish language was forbidden. Only the German language was allowed.  

...............

 

 

 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:28 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Goldman Sachs.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:09 | Link to Comment GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Zambo Obama.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:57 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Just put in a paypal claim and ask for a tracking number

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Beautiful Greek Woman and girls are far and few between. Haven't you see the movie "my big fat Greek wedding"?

Seriously though, I've been to Athens, Greece and go to Astoria all the time for dinner. They are not the best looking bunch out there. Perhaps with a sole exception being Maria Menunous.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:24 | Link to Comment GoldRulesPaperDrools
GoldRulesPaperDrools's picture

`De whim-un ... how much for de whim-un?`

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:04 | Link to Comment pashley1411
pashley1411's picture

Das Deutsche wort für minotar ist; minotar

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:14 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

Happens to us all, I've always had a problem finding the word for problem when I speak Deutsch!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:57 | Link to Comment LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

All the Greeks I've known prefer man-pussy.....

Send the girls!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:45 | Link to Comment fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

is that avatar homo-erotic, or are you declaring that you're nuts?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:53 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Even better: "Goldman am Mittelmeer"  I think every German would like that one. 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:19 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Susie Orman would say cut up the credit cards. No pharmaceuticals ? I think they should put them all on a solid dose of Thorazine

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:15 | Link to Comment SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

I looked Greeks up in my thesaurus and it said SLAVES. How long until Portuguese, Spaniards, and Italians are also listed? 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Germany and a few others wanted to make this so humiliating that no country would or could do it and so as tyler said Germany could go to the EU and say they couldn't do it and allow them to default.  I almost got a feeling that the EU is split with Germany and a few others wanting Greece gone and even defaulted and the others not wanting it.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:42 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Is ACTA in there somewhere?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Can ZH arrange with Goldman Sachs to have Tom Stolper directly tweet his next FX rec to us at ZH?  I really want to know when to start shorting EUR/USD again. 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:58 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

At the 2012 Annual Bavarian Slave Auction...........

"We got a fine Greek slave here, folks.   All his teeth and can cook.   Starting bid, $2,000 Euros!"

"$2,500!"

"$2,550!"

"$2,550.999999!"

"Sold to the gentleman in the Goldman-Sachs algo jacket!" 

 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:59 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

will they work?  Bc they haven't been for a while

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 23:50 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Classic.

Made me think of Randy Quaid in 'Moving': "I could, but I won't."

Looked quickly on YouTube for the scene, instead I found RQ throwing the paperboy, and I thought of Greece...

"Is your old man still lookin' for a job?  Tell him we could a good paperboy around here.  This kid ain't cuttin' it!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtMOJupg5lQ

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:54 | Link to Comment bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

If the Greek military made a coup d'état to remove the puppet un-democratic un-elected Greek government, that is betraying the Greek people, stripping Greek national assets, enslaving Greek citizens and helping to confiscate Greek gold ...

And begin to arrest all 'foreign extortionists' and hold them on Greek military bases 'in protection of the Greek national interest' ...

Would that be un-democratic?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:57 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

un-democratic?  yes.  un-popular?  un-likely.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:59 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

anyone still think that democracy works?  certainly your proposal would be more in the national interest that what is happening now.  assuming the military doesn't immediatly sell out like the politicians did before them.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:56 | Link to Comment Rynak
Rynak's picture

I could ask the same about capitalism... and then you will educate me that what we have isn't "real" capitalism.

Besides of that: "elective democracy".... so, democracy only based on electing PERSONS, with no democratic means of selecting POLICIES.... uh, well, how is that different from a popularity contest.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:57 | Link to Comment Translational Lift
Translational Lift's picture

No more un-democratic than what's happening now.......

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:18 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

I don't think Goldman could stand up to the Hellenic Air Force very long.  To be safe, don't drive a BMW or Mercedes in Greece for awhile.  Matter of fact, don't even drive a Hanomag.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:42 | Link to Comment battle axe
battle axe's picture

Wife an kids sold into slavery: Check, lose home: Check, Put gun in mouth: Check. Greek to do list....

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:39 | Link to Comment Elwood P Suggins
Elwood P Suggins's picture

 

 

So now the Greeks are all slaves

Being hounded into their graves

That nasty old German

Just treats them like vermin

And the bitchez on Zero Hedge rage

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment bdc63
bdc63's picture

love the way the details of this agreement (and I use that term loosely) keep coming out in dribs and drabs ... kinda like they're making it up as they go along ...

38 measures to complete in 5 days -- yeah, that's gonna happen.  Guess we're gonna have to go back to the private sector and get a bigger 'voluntary' haircut.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment geotrader
geotrader's picture

and and and....yeah that sounds good, too.  Put that in there.  Awesome!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

yeah but by the time they enforce this agreement on the slaves formerly known as US citizens, the template will be well known and understood.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:59 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Remember the old axiom:

You can't make and omelet without breaking a few eggs.

Greece is the eggs.

pods

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:23 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

And the U.S. is the omlet.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:16 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

And the CBs are the hot skillets.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:21 | Link to Comment nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

Or as a communist party official told me in the mainland a while back...sometimes, you have to kill a few chickens to scare the PIIGS!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:44 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

There is a reason they are called Greeks.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment Marge N. Callz
Marge N. Callz's picture

I'm buying Rosetta Stone stock (RST).  PIIGS latin will be a thing of the past.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment VanillAnalyst
VanillAnalyst's picture

No problemo, all the time in the world. I mean come on, its February, its a leap year, what's not to love.

-Evangelos

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

Viceroy Papademos would be so proud.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:47 | Link to Comment gmak
gmak's picture

Guess the old "What's a Greek urn"? Joke will no longer be valid (answer: Negative buck 50 an hour?)

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment tobinajwels
tobinajwels's picture

How do we know that CHINA won't do the same to us? I think it is only a matter of time before they claim there real estate? sorry if this seems to be a stupid question it is not meant to be. Any comments  will be appreciated. Thanks.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

Because we have a printing press, and Athens doesn't.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:03 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

China tries anything and we will just print another trillion in fiat and pay them off.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:02 | Link to Comment Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

We will have the Pacific Wall of Federal Reserve officials in bunkers with their printing presses to hold off the Asiatic hordes. We put our trust in the mighty right arms of Bernanke special forces spinning their presses to satisfy the invader. 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:39 | Link to Comment chet
chet's picture

We spend 6 times as much as China on our military every year, and it's only that close because they've greatly increased their spending recently.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:20 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

Subtract the troops pay from China and the U.S. and compute again.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:15 | Link to Comment zanez
zanez's picture

Running dog crypto-facists!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:49 | Link to Comment RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

I suspect the cat fight will begin to surface in the media as early as next week.  +-26 day's and counting to Default.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Rogier
Rogier's picture

Please stop this 'banksters are raping the poor Greece people' routine. It's beginning to border on pathetic... Greece brought it on itself, pure and simple. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:02 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

So the bankers hold no responsibility for loaning money that there was never any hope of getting back through normal channels?  And now have the ability to prevent a Greek bankruptcy, in no small part due to the fact that one of their own is now PM?

Of course the Greek economy is a disaster of Greece's own making.  I don't think anyone denies that.  But banks loaning to Greece knew that, too.

Of course they also would have known that they had the ability to carry out this exit plan.  Socialized losses, indeed.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:11 | Link to Comment Waffen
Waffen's picture

Do you also blame the the dog for eating anti-freeze that the neighbor left out for him?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:27 | Link to Comment Rogier
Rogier's picture

You seem to forget that the Greeks cooked the books. Big time.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:28 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

With the help of...what was that name again?  Goldman something.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:39 | Link to Comment Rogier
Rogier's picture

The infamous Goldman swap accounts for little under 2 billion. Shame on Goldman, shame on the Greeks, but it's just a drop in the bucket.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:08 | Link to Comment dolph9
dolph9's picture

It starts with Greeks.  Next will be Italians and Spanish.  Next Germans.  Next Brits.  Next Japanese.  Next Americans.  Finally, the Chinese as they realize they are on the treadmill to hell.

We have all been duped by global fiat money banksters.  People shouldn't be so proud of the suffering of others.  Especially fat Americans living on disability and burning subsidized fuel and eating subsidized corn.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:08 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

By your logic, you and I brought the national debt on ourselved too.

I did not junk you and I stopped myself from typing something that would stop the conversation. Your attitude pisses me off though.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:14 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

Hopefully we've been artfully trolled, and this guy isn't serious.  But that would reflect poorly on me, so it can't be true.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:41 | Link to Comment Rogier
Rogier's picture

I'm pretty serious. I don't pity the Greeks. They're a bunch of fraudsters. The fact that they are now getting punished (and rightfully so) by a bunch of banksters is ironic though - thieves getting robbed by banksters, it's hilarious.

I would be quite interested in hearing your comments if Greece hadn't lend the money from the nowadays not to popular banks, but directly from American pension funds. My guess is 99% of the readers would be screaming bloody murder about Greece defrauding those pension funds...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:46 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

As a free market person I would be just as pissed off if the pension funds were being bailed out on their bad bet to Greece. You take the risk and you lend a bum some money don't come crying to me when the bum doesn't pay it back

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:24 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I'd say the Greeks were picked for extermination because people like you wouldn't pity them, all while ridiculing those who understand that there is no entity known as "the Greeks" who can even be held responsible. Why? Because the common person (regardless of nationality) has no power to dictate what TPTB do in their name.

Perfect scapegoats, no?

Thanks for your service to the New World Order. If you think you'll do any better at avoiding having the very same checklist imposed upon you, well...

I don't pity you.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

I'm in no way absolving the Greeks.  I just object to the idea that they're being "rightfully" punished by a bailout program that is designed by the banks, for the banks, and that the BK alternative is rejected by a PM who is of the banks.  It's the bankers saying, "Hey Greece, your structurally flawed and totally unsustainable financial structure must be dismantled, in our to maintain for a while longer our structurally flawed and totally unsustainable financial structure."

And I didn't junk you.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:30 | Link to Comment Crack-up Boom
Crack-up Boom's picture

I think it's hard to blame the average employee for problems of this magnitude.  If you're not in charge where you work and you get a raise, you don't ask to see the company's financials before deciding whether the company could afford to give it to you.  You figure that the people in charge know what they can afford.  I suspect that a signficant number of Greeks who will be hurt by this are good people who did what they thought they were supposed to do for most of their lives and now will have their world turned upside down.

It's much harder to sympathize with the bankers and the Greek government who really should have known better.  I suspect that they protected their own interests and didn't care that the brunt of the consequences would be borne by others.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:56 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

I suspect that they protected their own interests and didn't care that the brunt of the consequences would be borne by others.

We have a winner!  Democracy's systemic flaw.  It is obviously the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:12 | Link to Comment Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

"democracy" is not flawed - but representative democracy is fatally flawed and a criminal enterprise - the only solution is direct democracy - via referendum

ireland via representative democracy assumed  / absorbed private bank debt which cratered the country

iceland  - in contrast refused to assume the private bank debt in a referendum and is now growing and has nominal debt

difference is criminal politicians not anything else   

 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:23 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

Jesus Christ, have you ever been to California?  Not to put too fine a point on it, but people are idiots.  Californians have, through direct ballot initiatives, mandated spending and capped taxes.  A successful direct democracy implies an educated electorate who actually give a damn what's going on at the state level.

There are more differences between Ireland and Iceland than the specifics of their form of government.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:41 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

None of that "educated electorate" shit really matters when criminals like Pelosi are the only choices allowed.

Besides, a truly "educated electorate" would know better than to engage in the evil of delegating away their own personal responsibility with the act known as voting.

It's quite simple actually. You have the right to choose any leader you want to represent you. However, you have no right to choose mine, or anyone else's.

Freedom of association, ya know.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:35 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Fuck your direct democracy! It's nothing but a larger gun held by a larger mob.

Call it what you will, but it is nothing but a fancier form of enslavement. You've never had any moral authority over my life and you never will. All you can be is one that aids and abets criminals, while crowing about how mature your form of violence is.

What's so hard about living in peace? Is there a reason you cannot engage others voluntarily, instead of ganging up on the minority who do not support your specific form of evil? Are you really so afraid of everyone that you have to hold a gun up to everyone's head?

Please allow me to reiterate, in case it's not clear.

Fuck your direct democracy!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:45 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Despite all the shortcomings of the initiative process, it still enables the polity to touch issues that no elected politicians would dare; case in point: medical marijuana.

So, if you really want to be universally adamant about "Fuck your direct democracy!", then fuck you, too, buddy.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:12 | Link to Comment GernB
GernB's picture

Democracy is clearly flawed. There is nothing inherently benevolent in democratic rule. To believe otherwise is to believe that individuals (who can remain anonymous as long as they are part of a crowd) are more compassionate than individuals. Hitler came to power in a democracy. Genocide is completely possible in a democratic society, you just have to have the majority be in favor of it.

People in the U.S. have been propagandized to believe democracy and freedom are synonymous, but nothing could be further from the truth. Un restrained the power of the majority can and will enslave the minority in a host of ways. Freedom is not democracy, and if a society is to be free it must protect individuals from the tyranny of the majority.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:07 | Link to Comment pashley1411
pashley1411's picture

Nobody could possilby believe the Greek politicians are working in the best interests of the country.    Staying true to form, the Greek political class continues to take what it can, while it can.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:20 | Link to Comment The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

I wonder if its the Greek Political class breaking into and stealing from their national museums - Greek frontrunning, knowing how they've voted and knowing what's coming.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:14 | Link to Comment WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Yes, the Greeks brought a lot of this on themselves. The problem is, all of the bailout money goes to the banks, who should have to suffer losses for their failure to manage their risk. Now the European taxpayers are funneling money to the banks just like what happened and is still happening in the US. Sure, the Greeks should have to pay for their mistakes, but so should the banks. This "Greek bailout" is nothing more than bailing out Greek and European banks, not the country.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:22 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

Germany:  So help me, I'll rape you!

Greece:     So, rape me, I'll help you!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

German flag tattoos on BOTH butt cheeks for all citizens.

Shocking!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:10 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

No, those are serial numbers...

Sorry Germans, I'm from German heritage too, it was just too easy...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:29 | Link to Comment nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

Yeah! No more yellow stars.  The German flag and of course the mandatory number...you know how the Germans like to keep things neat and orderly.  The real punishment would be to have all Greeks sit through a "mandatory" performance of The Ring...the ENTIRE ring!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:25 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

JPsssssssst!  No more Wagner, not allowed.  Remember You Know Who!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:17 | Link to Comment zanez
zanez's picture

...I didn't know they gave out rings at the Holocaust.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

Don't the Greeks like it from behind anyway? BOHICA . . . .

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 08:47 | Link to Comment Vigilante
Vigilante's picture

@Dickweed

Yeah..but they like to be the shafter not the ..err..shaftee...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:51 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

#39 No attractive females age 18-35 will be allowed to wear clothing.

 

So it begins...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:00 | Link to Comment RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Like they could even afford clothing after this.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:27 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Maybe that's the point...

 

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:42 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

German nudity is the creepiest nudity.  Greek nudity more better.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:11 | Link to Comment pashley1411
pashley1411's picture

So you are saying go "long" Greek dating websites?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:25 | Link to Comment The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

To increase tourism income, I'd flip that and say ALL attractive females 18-40 not allowed to wear clothing.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:51 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Is Free Speech permitted?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:58 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Yes, as long as you stick to the script

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:11 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

No, it will be taxed.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

I was hoping to be able to charge for my opinion...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:25 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Sorry, but you'll no longer own one.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:50 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Not only will it be prohibited, but retroactively so.  It occured to me yesterday after the negative gold article...

Negative free speech, bitchez!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:53 | Link to Comment AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Sooo these are the magical reforms that will get Greece in what that fucking idiot Draghi called a 'channel of confidence' whereby unsustainable growth will magically appear like it was Keysnesianed into existence.

This is nothing more than pillaging funds to give lenders lbs of flesh and setting up special agreement situations for private interested groups to profit off of the 'reforms'.

It's horrible-- I never thought I would see someone get raped and not be able to do anything.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:54 | Link to Comment Ketsa
Ketsa's picture

Something just crossed my mind and could make sense, for once.

 

Could the ECB just be the successor of the FED ?

I mean the FED's contract ends in one year, those guys are in a hurry.

and this EURO farce suddenly seems to makes sense, it was just the preparation for their move to Europe...

 

bingo.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:19 | Link to Comment bdc63
bdc63's picture

? ... not following your train of thought at all ...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You need to read FOFOA.  He's a little wordy but it's a good read.

 

http://fofoa.blogspot.com/

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:07 | Link to Comment ChacoFunFact
ChacoFunFact's picture

Ketsa - your ideas are very interesting.  I read a crazy thing a while ago.... what if the federal government secedes from the 50 states?  They own enough ports, roads, national parks, military, etc. to overlord the states.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:39 | Link to Comment The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

No need for the Fed to secede, they already overlord the states.

And Ketsa - your opening line is great

reminds me of the 3 stouges (logic) line "I'm trying to think but nothing happens"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtW98VSegk

 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:56 | Link to Comment TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Don't know about you but me thinks there is something BIG coming!!! No idea what but my gut never lies!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:58 | Link to Comment nobusiness
nobusiness's picture

There is something big coming.  $500,000,000,000 of new 3 year loans to the assholes that created the mess.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:24 | Link to Comment bdc63
bdc63's picture

Yep, I feel it too.  But my gut does sometimes lie, and I did have a grande burrito for lunch, so ...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:56 | Link to Comment nobusiness
nobusiness's picture

The stock market is forward looking and that means Greece is solved.  At least that is what CNBC tells me and those guys must be smart they are on TV.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:52 | Link to Comment bdc63
bdc63's picture

It's all priced in baby!  Everything, always, everywhere!  You can't sneak anything past the smartest guys in the room ...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:59 | Link to Comment Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

I need someone to cook and clean for me. I wonder what Goldman is asking for a female house slave at the Acropolis slave market.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:23 | Link to Comment njrod
njrod's picture

i'll start the bidding at one oz of silver...

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:01 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Operation "Brown Envelop under the table" is turning out pretty succesfull I must say

Now lets start with operation "I scratched you back, now you scratch mine"!

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