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Ben Davies: Greece Is Just A Preview Of What's Coming For The Rest Of Us

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Chris Martenson

Greece Is Just A Preview Of What's Coming For The Rest Of Us

All eyes are on Greece these days, with hopes the situation there can soon be resolved and the global recovery kicked into high gear.

Sadly, those hopes are misguided claims Ben Davies, CEO of Hinde Capital. In fact, he says, Greece's pain foreshadows the future awaiting the rest of the world. 

It all comes down to simple math. Greece has increased its debts at a rate far faster than its income has grown. At some point, the debt became so large that the country could no longer service it.

What makes the rest of the PIIGS immune from a similar fate? Or Japan? Or the US? Or the OECD, in general?


Yes, Greece had a smaller, shakier economy and doesn't have a central bank to print its own currency at will like Japan or the US. But even those countries with a printing press learn that, after a certain point, expanding the money supply only complicates the problem of too much debt by inflating key economic input costs and dangerously weakening the currency. 

The cold hard fact Greece is facing is that it's now at the point where extraordinary losses need to be taken. The problem is, no one wants to take them. And all the sturm und drang being exhibited by Brussels, the ECB, sovereign debt holders, and other world leaders is nothing more than a frantic game of hot potato.

The one thing we can be confident of is that at some point, these losses will be taken. The market will eventually force it.

And the second thing we can predict is: we don't know what will happen when they are. There is so much complexity in the counterparty exposure to Greece debt - as well as the much larger derivative exposure tied to this debt - that anything between "not much" and "worldwide financial conflagration" could be possible.

And that's just Greece. As other larger countries begin to sink under the weight of their sovereign debts, the risks to the global financial system increasingly escalates. Which is why Ben Davies has a hard time finding a good home for investment capital other than gold.

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Ben Davies (runtime 56m:40s):

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Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:16 | 2196366 YuropeanImbecille
YuropeanImbecille's picture

have you seen that the german minister of interior is urging greece to leave the eurozone?,1518,817567,00.html


"I am not talking about kicking them out [greece], but to offer them incetives that they leave by themselves."



Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:23 | 2196646 max2205
max2205's picture

This is all a big tadoo about nothing. Germany will send in 160 tax collectors to get $60 billion from a list of know evaders. They will pay , the collectors will be at the bottom of the Adriatic Sea and Greeces debt to GDP will be back to 50%.

You fuckers need to get long!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:43 | 2196793 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

What happens when the Greeks tell the tax collectors to go fuck themselves?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 23:02 | 2196839 Michael
Michael's picture

I would be very careful with what the foreign invaders dine on for dinner during their stay in Greece.

Socrates' execution requires that he drink a cup of hemlock. Found in Europe and parts of Asia, hemlock is a poisonous herb that looks a great deal like parsley. You would not, however, want this "fool's-parsley" dressing the side of your dinner plate!


Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:33 | 2197012 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

The real issue is the method of tax enforcement...

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:19 | 2197627 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Gyro mystery meat takes on a whole new meaning.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 23:17 | 2196861 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

I've said it before, Germany want Greece out and gone from the EU.  That is why they are dragging their feet and making them do things that no normal country would do.  Make it so bad to stay they will leave.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:16 | 2196373 LaLiLuLeLo
LaLiLuLeLo's picture

Its gonna be fragmented. The problems CA might have will be far different than FL's. Some places may never get bad and others will turn into slums. Make your move...

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:02 | 2196483 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

Is that California bankruptcy gonna come anytime soon? I've heard about it for years and there were even IOUs given out. Since then, silence.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:05 | 2196489 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

Well first they have to wipe the muni bond holders out which is coming 3,,2,1 then the gold rush will be on

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:06 | 2197720 bdc63
bdc63's picture

Meredith Whitney is getting ready for her "I told you so" moment as I type ...

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:52 | 2196589 macholatte
macholatte's picture


It would create a state-run government continuity task force, which would study and prepare Wyoming for potential catastrophes, from disruptions in food and energy supplies to a complete meltdown of the federal government.

The task force would look at the feasibility of Wyoming issuing its own alternative currency, if needed. And House members approved an amendment Friday by state Rep. Kermit Brown, R-Laramie, to have the task force also examine conditions under which Wyoming would need to implement its own military draft, raise a standing army, and acquire strike aircraft and an aircraft carrier.


Wyoming House advances doomsday bill

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:18 | 2196635 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

What is Wyoming going to do with an aircraft carrier?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:21 | 2196643 CH1
CH1's picture

Look stronger than Utah!


Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:10 | 2197611 blindfaith
blindfaith's picture



Since Utah has passed a legislative bill forbidding the discussion of Global Warming (notice the capital letters here, the Navy is now using them), maybe they will need an few boats afterall.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:29 | 2196660 Dr. Kananga
Dr. Kananga's picture

Sell it to Haliburton at cost then lease it back for 100 years.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:49 | 2196812 ndotken
ndotken's picture

dat dar's some funny shit ... I don't care where ya from

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 14:25 | 2198168 BigJim
BigJim's picture


Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:50 | 2197578 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

All they'd need the would be a battleship, a submarine, a destroyer, & a patrol boat & they could play a game of 'BATTLESHIP' with someone...

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:41 | 2197655 blindfaith
blindfaith's picture



What are they going to do put stagecoach wheels on them? 

Go to battle with Utah or about CANADA over..duh duh...OIL !!!


Has EVERYONE, no...I mean HALF the nation gone crazy?  Nuts ?  Where are these ideas coming from ? 

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:52 | 2196701 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

FWIW dept: 

wyoming [~50%] ___utah [~65%] ___ idaho [~68%],... just to name a few, have their % land mass owned outright by the u.s. fed. gov't [incl. minerals, oil, nat. gas, coal, etc., etc., natural resources         [12/2/10]

"State - 'Controlled' Russian Company set to take over Wyoming Uranium Mines"

"The Global West: How Foreign Investment fuels resource extraction in Western States"      [7/25/11] 

"China: The New Investment Savior?"     [5/12/11]




Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:46 | 2196804 Seer
Seer's picture

Dick Cheney is from Wyoming, and we know that Dick says that debt doesn't matter.  So, what's the big problem, Wyoming doesn't believe Dick?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 23:31 | 2196883 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Wyoming believes President Bamster when he says he needs a security force just as large and just as well funded as the Armed forces..  I can cherry pick quotes out of context too..   Perhaps Wyoming will even get their own corpsemen..  Maybe Joe can have them all stand up out of the wheelchairs, God love ya..

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:28 | 2197635 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Perhaps the remaining 56 states will follow suit.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:10 | 2197728 bdc63
bdc63's picture

Dick Cheney said "deficits" don't matter ... not debt, deficits.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 23:24 | 2196858 Michael
Michael's picture

And Wyoming will acquire an arsenal of nuclear weapons just as strong and just as powerful as Israel's.

I'm tired of the use of word "Doomsday" and am replacing it with "Economic Armageddon", as this is the most likely scenario.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:10 | 2197610 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

Wyoming is getting ready for the day that big crater which is Yellowstone blows.  They just can't say it in so many words or property values will plummet.

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 09:37 | 2200178 connda
connda's picture

Humm, a bunch of deranged, fanatical legislators contemplating preparation for a breakdown in the civil and social fabric of the United States -- or doomsday!

Doesn't that earn the entire Wyoming State legislature a spot on the FBI's potential domestic terrorist watch list? 

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:21 | 2196645 Dr. Kananga
Dr. Kananga's picture

I don't believe states can declare bankruptcy. A judge would simply remind them that, unlike the private sector, they have a unique power--they can raise taxes to pay off debts. And given that CA has a near 2 trillion GDP, they can't claim poverty.

It's true that some local governments in CA have gone bankrupt--but they don't have the same taxing leeway as the state.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:36 | 2196672 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Ah, but remember that debt is non-enforcible under international law unless the debtor government can prove it was for the benefit of the constituents... oh, wait... welfare state.... my bad. Guess we're paying it after all.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:00 | 2198736 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Dr. Kananga

but they don't have the same taxing leeway as the state.

Dr., True, but if your TAXABLE population has left the state, (and it is by the hundreds of thousands),soon you will have almost a  ZERO TAX base.

When your welfare roles are 10-1 over a taxpayers, your SOL.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:40 | 2196570 obejoyful
obejoyful's picture

Just moved from a high debt / high tax state to a low debt / low tax state.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:48 | 2196808 Seer
Seer's picture

So that means that it can ONLY go up?

Always think Mean...

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 23:28 | 2196882 Michael
Michael's picture

In Florida property tax can only increase at a 3% rate per year max mandated by state constitutional amendment.

Homestead bitches.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:48 | 2197680 blindfaith
blindfaith's picture




So, if the house was 200K and the taxes were, lets say, $3,000 and the house is now worth 100K but the taxes are still $3000 that computes to 3% in a year?

The school millage is the killer in Florida, not the property tax.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:18 | 2196376 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Wow. Will Sacha Baron Cohen walk down the red carpet of global CDS triggering? LOL

Admiral General Aladeen

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:20 | 2196382 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

So we will all have to start eating braadwurst?

I don't mind. I actually love a goof BBQ!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:31 | 2196412 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

The bratwurst sausage wing of the DHS is now monitoring you very closely. You're now considered a sausage trafficker making money behind the eyes of the Government.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:47 | 2196450 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Sausage Smuggler.. ha!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:50 | 2196457 cossack55
cossack55's picture

So, when smuggling said sausage, where does he hide it?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:50 | 2196458 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

In his anal cavity I would imagine?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:45 | 2196799 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Hotdog in a hallway!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:22 | 2196998 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

If you've never shit a turd into a higher-up's coffee pot, you have no REAL balls! Or never been in the military!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:03 | 2197046 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

They say that in the Army, the coffee's mighty fine....

It looks like muddy water, and tastes like turpentine.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:09 | 2196496 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Well, you could turn it into currywurst and then claim that it isn't really a bratwurst anymore.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:24 | 2196530 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

I think bratwurst will be in the more expensive cafes and gyros and ouzo will be at the hot dog vendor. (heavily armed hot dog vendor)

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:21 | 2196383 falak pema
falak pema's picture

For an out of the box thinker who has presented a view that saving your own skin through PMs is panacea in this mad world, it seems that now the bells are ringing in CM's head; it rings for us all: those with or w/O  PMs. We all fall. Having assets helps undoubtedly. But the battle is about the will to resist and fight for making "white collar crime" world wide pay for this wilfull rape of people's wealth by the bankster cabal. 

If we don't resist and fight back by all legal means we won't stop the rot. I get the feeling the US public has no will to fight it. That is ominous. People either join the hopium and say : what crisis, boring world we live in, or they just lie back...

Europe at the core will next be in line...

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:13 | 2196501 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

My 2 cents on gold.

It is insignificant to society.  The rebuttal would be "then why does XXXXXX hold gold and why does YYYYY do this or that with gold" and the answer is the amounts in question for XXXXX and YYYYY are insignificant on a relative basis.  

Here's the fundamental reality derived from the Great Lesson of 2011.  Governments will do ANYTHING to keep the wheels turning, and ANYTHING means erase any threat regardless of mechanism.

The governments took a UN mandate that said defend civilians and used it to bomb purely defensive Gadaffi positions to force regime change via air power.  They defended civilians with military advisors on the ground instructing rebel forces how to attack.  Not how to defend civilians.  How to attack.  In effect, governments went out and killed Gadaffi.

Governments robbed GM bondholders because they represented a threat via precedent to all bailouts pending.  They gutted those people and gave the proceeds to unions.

Governments are about to steal from Greece bondholders, and force them to declare the theft to be voluntary.

Governments put Strauss Kahn in jail until he resigned his IMF position (after he'd informed the Irish he would allow them to default).  Then they had a conscience attack and dropped the charges.


Gold is insignificant.  If at any point it dared to become significant by perhaps diverting money from Treasuries to itself, that will be stopped.  Government has many measures it can take to stop it.  It could simply tax all gold transactions at 50%.  You think with a precedent of murder and false imprisonment on the table that they would be deterred from something as trivial as imposing a tax?

They could also do something as simple as saying "ownership of gold is absolutely protected by law.  However, trafficking in gold will be illegal."  Sort of like small quantities of marijuana.  You can own it, but you can't buy or sell it.  You would never know if your counterparty is law enforcement and that would be that for the price.


Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:38 | 2196566 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

I wonder what that would do to the value of gold in India and China. I don't think they buy ETFs and futures as much. I think the ETFs and futures market will have more of a problem controling the price similar to Nixon saying "Well, if you really want to take possesion of the gold backing, then the gigs up". ETFs and The Washington Agreement and things like that haven't been around long enough to prove they are sustainable.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:54 | 2196597 centerline
centerline's picture

I fear that what is coming next, aside from the slow grind they are attempting, is a place were gold is nothing more than a fighting chance (if played right) out of the wrong place and/or permission to be in another place.

Greece is a test. Just like Zimbabwe and Argentina.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:21 | 2196641 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I anticipate a day where gold serves you only to buy a visa into Brazil, where they have 3 growing seasons a year.  The border guards will not yet have realized they can't buy food with it.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:23 | 2196753 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

The end game in Zimbabwe was the other way around. Lots of panners. Probably a small pan full would get you some trillion dollar bills.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:46 | 2196692 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

What Gold? And in what country?  You do know that there are cultures, unlike here in the states, where gold is held by most families.  Here in the states < 1-2%...maybe?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:08 | 2196729 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

If you hold it, then you pay to insure it or guard it.

If the amounts are insignificant, you don't.  If they are, you must.  That's just the way it is.  

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:06 | 2197052 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Shotguns are cheap.

Starving in the street, or "living" in a camp is not on my itinerary.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:52 | 2196700 Red Heeler
Red Heeler's picture

To the black marketeers government is insignificant.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:24 | 2197248 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Doh, because they work with the government (by paying bribes for their license to gangsta).
Problem is, the ordinary man, if the shit hits the fan, how is he going to operate in the black market? He'll get squeezed by eithe the gov't or the other gov't (gangsters who work with local government). As the poster said it's going to be tough to protect and use one's gold

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:07 | 2197446 Red Heeler
Red Heeler's picture

You'll see how the black market operates when the time comes. You'll be a participant. With very few exceptions everyone will be a participant. Those who have not participated in a black market think of it as something dark and illicit and dangerous. That may be the Hollywood stereotype but it's wholly inaccurate. A black market is born out of necessity. Everyone in need participates.

As the poster said it's going to be tough to protect and use one's gold

Perhaps. But gold is money; it will be tougher on those who have none.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:03 | 2197715 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture


In post-Soviet Russia, practically the entire economy (what was left of it) was a "black market". People adapted and got used to living with it. Life was a lot more tolerable for those that had goods and services to offer via barter or trade. It will be the same way here.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:49 | 2196810 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


Gold balances the debt on the Central Banks books.  They need it to rise.

Precious metal is instrumental in all technology.  If we are to have technology, PM will play a role.

And besides, gold is monie, by definition.  So if you want to trade in a marketplace, gold will dominate transactions.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 23:21 | 2196867 Rynak
Rynak's picture

How would that stop a 2-class "market"? You know, where commoners are only allowed to trade fiat, endproducts and ... oh wait, no, jobs aren't and will not be part of any trade in which two parties have a say..... and on the other hand, people allowed to trade production goods, metals, etc?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 04:46 | 2197300 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture


No imaginable way for gold to define transactions.  Take a thumbnail chunk of gold down to your convenience store and put it on the counter to pay for your $50 of gasoline.  The minimum wage worker won't take it.  If you give them a credit card made of plastic with a mag strip on the back, they will take it.

That's just the way it is.  If you want to buy some gasoline at the convenience store, you better bring dollars.  You can't even pay for it with Euros or Pesos.  Dollars only.  If you go to France, they will take only Euros.  But the minimum wage worker there will not take your thumbnail of gold for payment.

There is no infrastructure for it.  With civilization in decline, there never will be.  There is no way at the counter to prove it is real gold.  There is no machinery to pay out gold from an ATM at your convenience store.

To go back to gold, you have to have hundreds of times more ounces in existance for it to function as a currency.

It's really not worth thinking about it.  It's worth dollars only because someone else will give you dollars for it.  If dollars pay for food and food gets scarce, no one is going to trade dollars for gold.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 06:22 | 2197337 _underscore
_underscore's picture

There's a very simple way to use gold for everyday tranactions - gold is extremely malleable & could be spread in a very thin layer or strip that could easily be incorporated into paper money. UK notes currently have a silver thread running though them (not sure if its pure silver though - although the principle is the same). Imagine if all your banknotes had a gold thread of defined quantity & quality - voila, you've got $10, $20, $50, $100  'gold' banknotes.

Smaller denoms. could have sliver or thread, say $1, $5 etc.  Rest in cupro-nickel, as now.

With a new fixed reset price for gold, there'd be no incentive to burn the paper to retrieve the gold & anti-counterfeit measures would work as now.



Sun, 02/26/2012 - 14:14 | 2198133 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

3 years ago my mother-in-law gave me a gold neckless she bought in Egypt because I had expressed an interest in gold but a little mystified how to use it in any form of transaction. The neckless is broken in many parts, maybe 1 centimeter each? She explained they used this as transaction as one could easily remove one segment to be weighed and converted to currency. Well, was intrigued but very skeptical and took it to my gold guy. I figured they scammed her. It was probably plated though it was quite heavy. When I handed it to him he asked where I got it and immediately knew it wasn't purchased in USA, mainly because the gold percentage was much higher. He confirmed her statement that many other countries do this, it's just a foreign idea here....Oh yeah, I lost it in an unfortunate canoeing mishap recently. God what a klutz, guess I better stick with fiat.

Miffed :-)

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:33 | 2197469 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Your ATM or debit cards or credit cards are not dollars. They're representations of dollars.  They're bank credits and debits transferred electronically.  There's no reason gold can't operate the same way.  You don't need to have the gold physically present at the point and time of transaction to have confidence that it will be completed. 

I've seen this rebuttal to gold a lot.  It doesn't hold a lot of water. And it never has.  Do you think someone was throwing gold shavings at the bar whench to settle his tab at the local bar? Nope.  Probably not silver either.  It was more likely copper or some other token money instrument that represented a claim to gold or silver.  I'm too lazy to link, but you can google it.


Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:25 | 2197779 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Catullus: So.... another round of R E H Y P O T H E C A T I O N !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:20 | 2197758 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


It isn't about what the clerk wants, t is about what the owner of the store wants.  Also, I am assuming that the Fiat Ponzi has blown wide open, gas prices are $10/gal, and food is so expensive no one has any descretionary spending.

It is about what the owners of the businesses want.  And if I go down to the tool store, and I ask for the owner, and I say I will give him an Oz of silver for a tab, and that I will be in regularly to discuss how much I think a nail, hammer, saw, paint, etc costs, and he can use the silver to buy a car, or to help pay his rental on his business, etc, then he will happily take it.

I see a world where whatever community you live will dictate terms of trade, and where once again, as it had up until the last 40 years, precious metal drives that trade.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:29 | 2197796 Elmo The Great
Elmo The Great's picture

This is exactly correct.  Your future well-being in a deflationary or inflationary economy will depend on having cash (deflationary) or engaging in a barter system (inflationary).  Gold will never be a substiture for either of these siturations.  It will instead become a burden which you will gladly get rid of under either of the above cirsumstances.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 13:31 | 2197984 silvermaister
silvermaister's picture

ej You retard just tell me what will happen when your 100 US$ paper will not worth nothing .....Than new money will come like always it....Here in exYugoslavia we change money 5 times and I am 42 years old !!!!!!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 14:10 | 2198116 constitutionalist
constitutionalist's picture

i believe there is more fairness in the black market, you try to screw somoeone over and are paid justice. there is no bribing the judge. this "Blackest market" we seem to be using in todays world is much worse than the real "black market" 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 06:08 | 2197331 _underscore
_underscore's picture

The failing Western states will never be able to enforce any sort of embargo on their citizens owning, buying or selling gold. The gold cat, is out of the bag - China, India, Russia, most of S.E. Asia won't just take the hit or stop buying/trading with it. The most any govt. could do it attempt (and I say attempt) to tax it on a windfall basis. There's a whole industry of accountants working already around the current tax laws & I'm sure, pretty soon, getting around the new gold tax laws would be just as routine.

Fear not I say - even Superman never found an antidote to green Krytonite (or banker/politicians to gold!)


Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:06 | 2196724 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

I watched the 'CNN', GOP Presidential debate tonight falak, and what i heard from the audiences applause regarding the three [Santorum, Romney, and Gingrich] clowns to the right of Ron Paul in reference to Iran and Syria was very, very ominous. I mean these three amigos are ready to go to war at a drop of a dime.


Ps.   Ron Paul's subtle warning to the audience about preemptive wars didn't get much support.

Ps2.  Love your comments, thanks 

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 23:22 | 2196871 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I trust "audience" reaction in MSM TV about as much, as government statistics.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:01 | 2197594 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

You actually watched a GOP debate on CNN???

Egad man! (I didn't down vote you there though)

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:56 | 2197696 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

indeed,... most are indifferent to trimming their hedges to low for fear of being smitten by a blade of truth

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:25 | 2197002 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

If we don't resist and fight back by all legal means we won't stop the rot.


Please define legal.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:13 | 2197067 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Uhhh, I'm guessing by "voting" for a "good guy," or filing a "lawsuit" in which you will be found to either:

1.  Be found to have no standing

2.  Not filed the correct paperwork because you couldn't find a lawyer lier with balls

3.  Be ruled against by the man in a black dress who gets paid by the state

4.  Be ruled against by a kept jury

5.  Have any "evidence" ruled inadmissible by a man in a black dress

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:26 | 2197094 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



But the battle is about the will to resist and fight for making "white collar crime" world wide pay for this wilfull rape of people's wealth by the bankster cabal.

The the battle is lost.

There won't even be a battle. Society won't go up against banksters and make them pay. Ever.

No, not here in America either.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:17 | 2197746 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

falak: "I get the feeling the US public has no will to fight it. That is ominous."

What is ominous is the stupidity of US public. Most still watch tv for news, not clicking on ZH.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:29 | 2196395 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

And it'll be the worst in the US... very polarized society, the most since the civil war... with hundreds of different cultures... 45 million on food stamps... 1.5+ million already in hyper poverty, millions of war veterans...militarized and corrupt police... gangs... thousands of bankrupt cities... income inegality at record highs... 300+ million firearms...

It's gonna be one hell of a show.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:44 | 2196447 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Wouldn't miss it for the world.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:03 | 2196487 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

Some predict the best days for the US people are ahead. So what's the problem?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:46 | 2196802 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Oh they are...if the good guys win and the REAL enemies are taken out (the banksters, the warmongers, the corrupt and their puppets)... but the in-between period, it'll be hell... who knows how long that hell will last... will a civil war happen? Will WW3?? Will a period of even worst government happen (kinda like USSR)??

I don't know how it will end, life is not like in the movies, the good guys don't always win at the end... I don't know how long the hell part is gonna last... could be a year, could be 2 decades...

The only thing I think I know is that the time it begins is near. Everybody can see it. 2011 wasn't a record year of gun sales for nothing.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:50 | 2196813 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

LookingWithAmazement said:

Some predict the best days for the US people are ahead. So what's the problem?

The problem will be making it through the worst days which will precede the predicted best days.


Sat, 02/25/2012 - 23:34 | 2196894 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Some predict bats will fly out of your ass.  Some predict Martians will descend on rainbows with magical AU machines and build us all homes of Gold.  Some predict stupid people will continue to say stupid things, the problem is your number three..

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:45 | 2197029 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

I once new a guy that knocked up this chick and she had twins. Since my acquaintance was resourceful - and also a little (make that a large) bit of a thief - he hijacked a truck full of Pampers to somewhat cover some ass.

Last time I saw the guy, he was in a half-way house, on the way out of prison and back into the real world. 

You can say anything you like about the guy, but he was a survivor, and wicked smart.

To answer your question of "what is the problem?" I suggest that the problem is more individual than most people would suggest.

We live in a world of collapsing institutions. From governments to money, all authority is being lain waste.

Individuals with backbone, courage and commitment to just about anything but the status quo should prosper under such conditions. Basic anthropology, a subject most of us slept through in college, but if you re-read Franz Boas, Claude Levy-Strauss and Emile Durkheim, you might begin to get the picture. 

Let me coin an new acronym: EMTH (Every Man For Himself), which works during chaos until some semblance of social structure can be established (re-established). Survival, as the leaders and governors stumble and break down and society erodes into a crumbling mass, becomes the #1 prerogative.

Once anarchy prevails, then function will overpower facility.

(BTW: I really love this place. Always a good workout for the brain.)

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:34 | 2197252 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Good post. By the way I am coining and trademarking a new acronym myself: EMFH (tm). It stands for the same thing but it's spelled differently.

I am still not convinced that buying guns, ammo and some remote shack is better than simply emigrating to South America (now, while it's still relatively easy).
Because the better prepared one is, the more attractive target he becomes (including to the government).

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:17 | 2196513 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

None of the specifics you mentioned are critical.

The critical item is "there are more guns than people in the US".


Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:55 | 2196709 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Did you miss the 300+ million firearms or?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:44 | 2196577 obejoyful
obejoyful's picture

Also, Greece has the whole world helping them: ECB, FED, EU, IMF ....  When it gets to the big one, Japan, France, England and the US, there will be no more helping.  It will be just the opposite, selling foreign treasuries, Trade and currency wars. 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:37 | 2197254 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

I think your thinking is completely wrong.
They can get organized in no time and pull another scam.
Say the IMF rescues the world and for enhanced stability the UN then takes over certain value-added management roles (such as redistribution of everything) from governments.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:06 | 2197527 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

The UN is a farce.  It should be moved to Yemen where it could do the world some real good for a change.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:34 | 2197812 Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson's picture

You forgot nukes.  The ultimate debt repayer.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:50 | 2197131 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



It's gonna be one hell of a show.

Don't kid yourself.  There won't be any such show. 

Americans are watching a collapsing dollar destroy their savings and wealth just like the rest of the world is, and not doing a thing about it.

300 million firearms?  So what?  None of them will be used to "take America back".

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:42 | 2197660 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Yep- we call that "Tuesday".....

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 16:48 | 2198586 DosZap
DosZap's picture

. Which is why Ben Davies has a hard time finding a good home for investment capital other than gold.

I would have used a different name for this, SURVIVAL.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:28 | 2196403 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

In thinking about it today, we are born into a world which has no "rights".  This planet doesn't offer any life form any "right" or entitlement to anything.  If we survive, it is because we manage to eat, clothe, shelter and protect ourselves.  None of these things are ours by right.

God didn't promise anyone "rights".  There is no entity in the universe to complain to if we discover we are slaves and desire freedom.

Right is a man made concept, possibly derived from love and compassion in order to control those who do not love and who care not for compassion.

Now we have many "rights" and so do "animals" in certain parts of this world.  We have the right to demand a minimum wage when employed, the freedom to express ourselves and so on.  Some cultures have different rights than others.

There is never a guarantee that these rights will be honored or that someone will enforce them.

Right is a human ideal often betrayed by humans.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:08 | 2196613 Ponzified Plebe
Ponzified Plebe's picture

I didn't realize that metaphysical discussions on the nature and origin of human rights was contemplated in this post or on ZH in general. If what you are saying is true, why the hell should we care if our rights are trampled on by governments or anyone else, since we have no prior claim on them anyway? In your system of thought the Maccevelian wins, and he wins big if he sprinkles on a bit of Nitzchean will to power. I find the Deist arguments of our Constitutional Framers more persuasive on the subject of human rights.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:47 | 2196807 The_Nihilist
The_Nihilist's picture

We should care because they're our rights. Some of us believe you have to actively practice your rights to keep them. I don't think its as simple as god did it. The deist thing doesn't work because if a god gave us rights why would god let mortals take and give them away all the time? God obviously doesn't give a shit assuming god is real. Rights are just a human concept and we have to practice challenging authority to keep what ever rights we believe we have.


Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:24 | 2197001 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Zero Hedge's theme is about our timeline here.  It's focus seems to be predominantly on what affects us economically and also how members of society react when economic conditions affect them to a negative extreme.  It is all about life. 

We all believe in different things, yet we all seem to have to function together as a society, a society which establishes what we believe are our rights to give us a framework we can live and survive in.

Today that system which provides us our rights is under attack through the economy.  That is why I wrote what I wrote.  It applies to this blog as it does to life.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:42 | 2197258 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Yes but you made a mistake in your reasoning which what the first comment warned you about.
It depends where you live, but in the US the government doesn't *give* you rights. It's only supposed to protect those that you're born with. (And yes, you don't have any rights eg right to minimum wage) except the inalienable rights. Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, bitchez.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 07:57 | 2197390 fallingman
fallingman's picture

life, liberty, and property, bitchez.


Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:47 | 2197149 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Rights are just a human concept and we have to practice challenging authority to keep what ever rights we believe we have.

That's a very good point.

"Rights" are a justification for laziness.   People believe they have "rights" government must honor. 

It's just an excuse for not putting forth the physical effort needed to keep the government in check.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 04:40 | 2197295 Ponzified Plebe
Ponzified Plebe's picture

Look, I think when we speak of human rights we are speaking of something innate, realities that were divinely sanctioned, that is bestowed on humanity, that belongs to them inalienably. I am not a deist (more of a vinagery old school Calvinist,who holds to the Westminster Confession of Faith), nor do I think a free society depends on all people agreeing on the metaphysical or spiritual basis of human rights. But, the Framer's did get it right in the fact that they recognized that human rights are inate, belonging to humans as the result of their humanity, as opposed to something that humans decided to assign to themselves.

If we want to go back into history, the enlightenment ideals of human rights developed out of Natural Law theories laid down early on in Western thought, and articulated by Reformed resistance theorists such as Theodore Beza (Calvin's successor in Geneva) who argued that governments derived their authority on the basis of an equitable rule of law, and ought to be resisted and even overthrown. Locke and Hobbes drew off of these ideas, and we see this reflected in Framers such as Jeffreson. So the fact is, if you are going to advocate a thourogping humanism, or even an absolute materilism (i.e. no God who gave us rights) for rights, which is fine, you need to understand that the whole Constitutional basis for human rights is that they come from a transcendent and inviolable source, and that when trampled, they are undercut at the cost of human nature itself.

Believe what you want, you are certainly free to do so, but understand that when you limit rights to simply a human construct, you end up undercutting the basis on which humans have historically understood where they originate. And, don't be surprised when other power hungry individuals simply say that since human rigjts are not innate and do not find their source in a transcendent reality, that they can curtail them because they simply have the power and means to do so.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:10 | 2198764 DosZap
DosZap's picture


The deist thing doesn't work because if a god gave us rights why would god let mortals take and give them away all the time? God obviously doesn't give a shit assuming god is real.


Yeah it works real well.You have the answer in ONE word...................FREEWILL.

HE gave it to you,its your choice,use it or lose it, both an earthly sense and your final destination.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:51 | 2197032 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

PP: Don't sell Nietzsche short. The last honorable philosopher.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 04:19 | 2197284 Ponzified Plebe
Ponzified Plebe's picture

Nietzche is the only fun philosopher to read, and I'll drink to that, but his ideas don't exactly lead to a fair and equitable society. But, in his field, he is a giant no doubt, and I certainly enjoyed how he called bullshit on the neo-Kantian philosophers of his day. So I don't think I sold him short by saying that his ideas, while intereating, and existentially honest lead to a total mess in practice.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 07:09 | 2197362 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

cherry picker

nicely written, but tell me you didn't get this stuff from George Carlin.


Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:30 | 2196404 Chimerican
Chimerican's picture

 I am the Nightrider. I'm a fuel injected suicide machine. I am the rocker, I am the roller, I am the out-of-controller! 

: There has been too much violence. Too much pain. But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away. Give me your pump, the oil, the gasoline, and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away and we'll give you a safe passageway in the wastelands. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:33 | 2196419 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I am A Lunatic..............bring it on.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:40 | 2196439 Chimerican
Chimerican's picture

All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:07 | 2196490 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

What of the ones who want to philosophize their delusions?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:52 | 2196821 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The Irish said that people who went to fairyland and came back were poets.  Those who stayed there were crazy.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:09 | 2196497 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

Two days ago I saw a rig big enough to haul that tanker. You wanna get outa here? You talk to me.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:29 | 2196546 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

The Ayatollah of Rock 'n Rolla!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:31 | 2196410 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...ah, the light Ray of Davie's 20th Century Man fading out, realizing the unbecoming reality of the 21st Century black hole.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:32 | 2196417 The4thStooge
The4thStooge's picture

This is getting old. Let's get on with it already.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:40 | 2196436 Newsboy
Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:55 | 2196471 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

A: Computer-generated imagery (CGI) video.

Opening a post at GLP/ATS can render hours of amusement. Allow me to present your thread title.

Identify this, I can't: Ask me a question


Have at it champ.


Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:29 | 2196543 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture man, that's Krugman's flying wet dream. Lol

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:49 | 2196456 gwar5
gwar5's picture

.... always love to hear anything by Ben Davies. I've felt all along that the PIIGS have been turned into a trial run. Greece is now a small lab rat whereby TPTB can dissect them and work out a template how to strip mine other countries, and their people, using debt. They'll see what works best and what limitations and surprises pop up. In the USA, controlling the healthcare system and having legal authority over life and death was key.


Irony: If the Greeks rose up in a popular revolt, wouldn't EU guns be turned on them for being "Terrorists" for just trying to take their country back?  Meanwhile, the "popular" uprisings in the ME are being encouraged and aided by the West.

I hope the rumours of a Greek army coup is real and they throw out the banker-appointed puppets. At least the banker shadow government has moved out of the shadows where everyone can now see them for what they are.   



Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:37 | 2196674 Dr. Kananga
Dr. Kananga's picture

I've been thinking the same thing once it became clear that this is a bailout of the bankers, not the people of Greece. They're gonna work out all the bugs with Greece and by the time they get to Italy, they'll have it dialed in like Flynn.

Of course, public experiments tend to reveal the experimenter's intentions to the public, sooner or later. Depends on how well people are paying attention.

Given what I've seen thus far, the greatest danger all around is an apathetic and willfully ignorant public.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:48 | 2197263 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

I'd like to see the puppet government overthrown, but what they get may be worse (a completely totalitarian junta), so it's not going to be easy to improve on things without considerable risk.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:54 | 2196465 agent default
agent default's picture

When countries cannot service their debts, they default and tell the bondholders to shove it.  Happened many times in the past.  They do not sign away their very existence like Greece did.  There is a difference between default and the high treason committed by the Greek politicians. 

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:11 | 2196738 itchy166
itchy166's picture

This is the scary part.  Throw your country under the bus for the sake of a global cabal.  What is high treason when you are working for/towards a one world government?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:54 | 2196466 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

And we're getting ever closer to "Mad Max" the sequel!!!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 19:58 | 2196478 Chimerican
Chimerican's picture

 I ain't Captain Walker. I'm the guy who carries Mr. Dead in his pocket. 

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:04 | 2196467 smiler03
smiler03's picture

This is what I summise about the Hinde Gold Fund (Ben Davies is the CEO).... I'm almost certainly wrong but this is what I see from 

fund start date 28th September 2007

price at start 100 price today 210.91

So that's a 210.91% rise in that time. In the same time, gold has gone from $740 to $1770 (some rounding errors) a 239.18% rise.

This fund appears to have a management fee of 1.5% and a performance fee of 20%.

Where would I have been better off putting my money? Not that I have anything remotely like the minimum $100,000 investment so it's a rhetorical question.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:44 | 2196575 grey7beard
grey7beard's picture

>> price at start 100 price today 210.91

>> So that's a 210.91% rise in that time.

I'm thinking that's actually a 110.91% rise.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:04 | 2196610 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Thanks for the correction! It would still be higher self investing though :O)

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:30 | 2196509 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

When Obama starts his next ME conflict, the Corzine MF Global paper trail will vaporize into a cloud of smoke. Wash, rinse and repeat. Save this post. You'll be told it was a terrorist attack to steal your sovereignty & freedoms. Mark my words.


Edit: Discover where they are holding the MF Global documents. Move them to a non disclosed location. Are you listening alphabet soup agencies? Your hindsight is not to repeat the loss of WTC Enron documents. MFG is tenfold in comparison to the Enron fraud. Now is your chance to prosecute this small group who creates large problems



Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:20 | 2197078 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Or Operation Paperclip documents in the Murrah Building.

Or the $2.3 trillion papertrail the DoD "lost" in the Pentagon.


This list can get very long very quickly.

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 10:05 | 2200256 connda
connda's picture

1. Break out broom

2. Sweep under rug

3. Assert ignorance

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:17 | 2196512 trentusa
trentusa's picture

what happened to Greece ALREADY happened to US its just classified & was never released to the public look it up in the Congressional Record for yourself. Just wondering if i'm about to get censored by Tyler. readin' Durdin makes u smarter:


Subject:  .The Bankruptcy of The United States
United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303
Speaker-Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House:

 "Mr. Speaker, we are here now in chapter 11.. Members of Congress are
official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt
entity in world history, the U.S. Government. We are setting forth
hopefully, a blueprint for our future. There are some who say it is a
coroner's report that will lead to our demise.

 It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has
been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1,
Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and
insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 - Joint
Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause
dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official
capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and
Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal
Government exists today in name only.

The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International
Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International
Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now
operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers.
With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the
receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the
United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an
established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This
act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office
of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International
Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part:
"The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing
the United States."

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:23 | 2196647 jomama
jomama's picture

TD doesn't censor anybody.  unless you're pushing legitmate spam.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 13:17 | 2197940 trentusa
trentusa's picture

nice...just checkin'. For some reason even Tyler doesn't dare blow the whistle on this story. Getting deleted here on this would be kind of like going down to the bookstore to pick up a copy of A Catcher in the Rye and finding out they were clean sold out. Long live ZH and god save the queen if Americans meaning the general public found out about the 1933 bankruptcy putting the USA into an international receivership to the int'l banking syndicate.

Damnit Tyler (pls) write the story already !!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:59 | 2197272 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

>"The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing the US

Aha, that's why Turbo Timmy declared no income!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:20 | 2196517 djsmps
djsmps's picture

The MSM is going batshit crazy about how great the housing market has become.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:02 | 2196608 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Great-- they should all jump on the opportunity of a lifetime by buying a house in STockton, CA!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:22 | 2196526 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Greece is passe'. PSI ( English Law 75%), is the word. I like hedge funds in this instance.  DEFAULT!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:27 | 2196538 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

So who is doing all this 'down' arrow business? Is it Valerie, The big 'O' or just some burned out gov troll who can't make an omelet out of his/her scrambled eggs anymore? Funny when they keep their mouths shut and just push the button.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:29 | 2196542 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Everyone start investing in algae! The new Green Gold!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 22:57 | 2196828 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You can eat it!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:20 | 2197082 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I thought Soylent Green was the next "Green Gold"....

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:29 | 2196547 jomama
jomama's picture

alright, who's the serial junker...


Sat, 02/25/2012 - 20:34 | 2196557 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Members of Obama's Truth Team

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!