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The Benefits Of A College Education

Tyler Durden's picture





 

... Are what again? As the following graphic from IBD demonstrates, for the first time in history, a majority of jobless workers over 25 have attended some college, and now outnumber those without a job who simply have a high school diploma or less. But at least those in the fomer category have tens of thousands of non-dischargeable debt to show for it.

From IBD:

Out of 9 million unemployed in April, 4.7 million had gone to college or graduated and 4.3 million had not, seasonally adjusted Labor Department data show.

 

That's a swing of more than 2 million since the start of 1992, early in another jobless recovery, when 4.1 million who hadn't gone to college were jobless vs. 2.3 million jobless who had gone.

 

Mostly, this dramatic shift reflects broad demographic forces. A greater share of the population has attended college, at least for a time. Meanwhile, older Americans who were less likely to pursue higher education are exiting the work force.

 

In 2011, 57% of those 25 and up had attended some college vs. 43% in 1992. Those without a high school diploma fell from 21% to 12% over that span.

 

But along with the increasing prevalence of college attendance has come a growing number of dropouts, who have left school burdened by student loan debt but without much to kick-start their careers.

 

For those in the labor force — either with a job or in active pursuit of one — 57% of high-school grads with no college (2.9 million of 5.1 million) have found a full-time job.

 

For labor force members who have attended — and left — college or earned an associate degree, a depressing 64% (2.2 million of 3.5 million) have gained full-time employment.

 

Among everyone up to age 24 who has left college or earned a two-year degree — including those not actively searching — the full-time employment-to-population ratio has plummeted from 69% in 2000 to 62% in 2003 to 54%.

The good news? That part-time worker you are hiring at minimum wage likely has two Masters Degrees... and a Ph.D. (in economics).

 


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Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:33 | Link to Comment BeachBanker007
BeachBanker007's picture

when does tyler start giving out diplomas?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:57 | Link to Comment LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Stay stupid my friends,

Stay stupid

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:00 | Link to Comment Sancho Ponzi
Sancho Ponzi's picture

'Stay stupid my friends,

Stay stupid'

...and move to Vegas where you fit right in.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:32 | Link to Comment dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

Colleges have gotta be one of the most laughable on-going scams now. When your kids go to college they

  • take on a student loan debt worth of half an average mortgage payment.
  • receive no house for that half mortgage (people chased 04-06 housing bubble at least have a house to show for)
  • receive no proper training even after 4 years to land a job either (so that they could pay that house-less mortgage off).

Best example of what "royally f***ed" looks like.

 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:33 | Link to Comment Akrunner907
Akrunner907's picture

College would be great if it focused on building a person for a trade, and reduced the "liberal" side of education.  It is wonderful for someone to learn about medival religion or the formation of human cohabitation, but people can learn that after they have learned their trade and entered the workforce.  The focus of college should be to push the frontiers:  where education of sciences are pushed.  I would love to see more engineers, chemists, physicists, medical doctors, etc.  I would like to see less journalists, attorneys, etc.

 

 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:49 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture
"College would be great if it focused on building a person for a trade, and reduced the "liberal" side of education."
- Kings and Oligarchs hate those who can think for themselves.  They love you.

"The phrase liberal arts (Latin: artes liberales) refers to those subjects which in classical antiquity were considered essential for a free citizen to study. Grammar, Rhetoric and Logic were the core liberal arts. In medieval times these subjects (called the Trivium) were extended to include mathematics, geometry, music and astronomy (which included the study of astrology). This extended curriculum was called the Quadrivium. Together the Trivium and Quadrivium constituted the seven liberal arts of the medieval university curriculum.   In modern times liberal arts is a term which can be interpreted in different ways. It can refer to certain areas of literature, languages, philosophy, history, mathematics, psychology, and science.[1] It can also refer to studies on a liberal arts degree program. For example, Harvard University offers a degree of Master of Liberal Arts, which covers biological and social sciences as well as the humanities.[2] For both interpretations, the term generally refers to matters not relating to the professional, vocational, or technical curricula."  Wikipedia.  I don't usually rely on Wikipedia, but the definition is roughly accurate.  Think (if possible) about why the oligarchs would want you to learn a trade, and not learn how to think and reason.
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:06 | Link to Comment Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Holy shit Rand, I think this is probably the first of your posts I agree with!

 

Of course, the view you espouse is, uhm, very 'Randian'...

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:14 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You do have a philosophy degree, I recall.

Funny how some can only understand and relate to that that from which they personally dervived benefit.  Rand liked smoking because... she smoked.  You agree with my one post because I happened to ratify your own life experience.  Think about it  and feel free to employ your area of study.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:40 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

I am told that the four-year tuition at Yale University has cost the same, roughly 125 ounces of gold, for more than 120 years.  

Maybe it is the dollar that is declining in value, not education?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:16 | Link to Comment CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

Sarah Lawrence College costs $59,170.

Sarah Lawrence College? $59,170? What for? I don’t hear much about alumni from Sarah Lawrence College going on to make a bunch of money as CEO of GE or some other criminal organization like Goldman Sachs. No, Sarah Lawrence is just another one of many of America’s snooty overpriced liberal arts colleges mainly composed of girls (73% of the school is female) who think they’re sensitive and gifted and special and smart and major in Women’s Studies, Victorian Literature, Environmental Policy or some other equally useless bullshit.

With the government interfering with the interest rates and subsidizing/guaranteeing student loans, it’s created a lot of free money in education. That means since money is so cheap for college, colleges can raise their tuition across the board and create a whole generation of debt servants. 

 

http://www.singledudetravel.com/2011/10/the-higher-education-scam-and-sa...

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:44 | Link to Comment Akrunner907
Akrunner907's picture

My comment is lost on you.....but that is okay.  Make peace with yourself for what comes this way.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:40 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Enlighten me about what I missed....

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 01:04 | Link to Comment Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

You do not need to attend college or university to get the education you claim has value.

-Get a computer

-Read Wikipaedia

-d/l syllabii from your fav Liberal Arts College

-Buy those books

-Start reading

People need to work. Knowing Classical Greek Literature can come later, for nearly free, on one's own time. Financial education is found right here on ZH.

We have millions of LA degree holders who are idiots, out of work, massively in debted, and cannot foam a latte'.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 03:38 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

On the matter of post-secondary academic practicality: 

Beware of schools whose curricula are subsumed and faculties hijacked by worshippers of "Green" Agenda 21. Over the next 5-10 years you'll notice a wave of heavily-indebted, global warming-brainwashed socialist zealots looking for work with a chip on their shoulder and hunger for power, wanting nothing better than to tell you how to build your "sustainable" homes and where to buy your "sustainable" groceries. In the looming Greater Depression, they will mistakenly see themselves as an enlightened underclass, a catalyst for reform. Their idealistic utopian visions of sugarplums will require nonexistent capital. They won't get their way, and they won't like it, and won't understand why. Radical excuses will be embraced, no matter how unjustifiable. They will become cruel, having swallowed "overpopulation" and "unsustainability" propaganda. There's going to be a lot of anger and ruthlessness - ageism on steroids - as these people take out their frustrations on their decadent Boomer elders. Oligarchs will feed and exploit the generational gap. It will be smoke and mirrors, just like after every other crisis in history.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 07:03 | Link to Comment nickt1y
nickt1y's picture

And how does this venerable Liberal Arts Traditional education resemble the pap that is taught now? The skulls of mush that attend Liberal Arts education today are not taught to reason or think for themselves. They are fed the party line, deviation from said line results in bad things happening to both student and deviating faculty.

TPTB fear a tradesman working for himself. He can start his own business, barter and move to kinder tax jurisdictions if forced to. The tradesman is also much more aware of the impedements that regulation and taxation place in his way. How many liberal trades people have you encountered? As a trades person myself I will answer from my experience and say very few. The liberals I encounter are safely burried in the belly of the beast ..corporatists ... lawerys .... the very cogs of the machine.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:29 | Link to Comment billsykes
billsykes's picture

I kind of like the Swiss way where you have to take a trade after graduating HS, then go to college/university.  I also think some of the liberal component like poetry, Shakespeare, fiction, etc should be done away with - most people do not write 2000 word essays about a book they read or compose a haiku to win new business.  Same with math, get it functional, tailor it out of the 1st yr to your major- but school is really not about education its about servitude, doing what you are told and not questioning authority. 

 

If you want to write about Shakespeare or haiku's start a blog.  It just boggles me that it takes 12 years to learn nothing, then another 4 to solidify that knowledge, so that bitchz interns can get my dry cleaning.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:34 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Neither a borrower nor a lender be.  

Those who do not learn history....

Never mind.  Lost on you.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:17 | Link to Comment Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

GARY NORTH has written extensively on just how to go about getting a certificated degree by way of pretty good schools that work on the net.

 FWIW, all of the MIT undergraduate studies are on the net for no charge. One will not get a degree from that, but it surely will point a studious kid on what they consider worth studying. Khan is a tremendous source. 

 I happen to agree with you on a classical education if one can do it on ther own by using the fantastic tools on the net. What little I know was "self taught" by buying books that I found to be worthwhile based upon recommendations from people that I trusted for thinking the way that I would want to think if I was competent.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:26 | Link to Comment Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

Oddly enough, in the mid 1970's when I was in my mid 20's, I found a lot of good trails to follow from my short term infatuation with Rand.

 I have a very large library of titles that I have bought over the past decades. I do not have the academic discipline to read them with understanding, but I will give it a try when I can get off of the whirl. I only can have hope of some liesure time to do that as I went for hard cash when it was cheap.

 MY BEST TO YOU>____ damned keyboard.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:14 | Link to Comment mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

That can be done in high school. Most high schools have a vo-tech that teaches auto repair, hvac, etc. I know several recent college graduates that  majored in biological sciences - working at supermarkets or as waiters. It's not only the liberal arts majors that are screwed. Even computer science is no guarantee unless you have demonstrated skills which you can do without going to college if you are motivated.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 02:32 | Link to Comment Habib
Habib's picture

Depends on what your major is in college. Undergrad was Zoology. It was a "hard science", but no jobs out there so.....on to grad school. MBA track that time, but it was 30+ years ago. I'll never forget the survey they did that told me I was in the minority (5%) that was planning on becoming an entrepreneur. The rest all went to work for Fortune 500 companies.

I was horrified with my classmates, but went right ahead with my plans. That MBA made all the difference in the world. I've worked for other folks off and on, but my biggest income is/was working for myself. It was the most fun too, which was a nice perk.

So a college degree was worth it for me, and I couldn't have done what amounted to be a really successful career without it in my area. I probably broke even on it in three years, but I did pretty well on my own. Student loans? The only reason I took a small one out (I don't remember that I was able to hobble myself with the amount of debt the current kids take on), was that I could get 18% in a money market back then, and the loan rate was only about 4-5%. A no brainer on that one, but university teaching, and outside consulting while in grad school was fairly lucrative back then. As I recall I had the loan paid off in a couple of years.

A college degree is a big plus, but you better be a pragmatist when you select your degree. A degree in the arts is a waste of time and money.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 09:47 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Silly.  If you want a job, study what will be useful and get you paid: learn to speak Spanish and Mandarin fluently.

That's all you need.  Engineers and chemists and such are a dime a dozen if you pull them from the right countries.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:31 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Would you like fries with that diploma? A shake? Apple pie?

For a dollar more you could turn it into a graduate degree combo meal...

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:01 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hope & Change with the islamic.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:49 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

That's it, Freddie, keep repeating what the media have told you to believe.

And consume, consume,

 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 05:51 | Link to Comment cnhedge1
cnhedge1's picture

Are concerns over a Greek Euro exit overdone ?
http://www.cnhedge.com/thread-4852-1-1.html

Is the Euro area Credibly on Target?
http://www.cnhedge.com/thread-4838-1-1.html

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:34 | Link to Comment I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

For Girls it is prostitution

For Guys, USSA is GAY now, so there is a future in Metrosexual Showrooms and Stores.

I guess that pretty much sums up College Education

For everything H1B Visas

 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:36 | Link to Comment MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

This is the Obama record in a nutshell!  A disgrace!

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:43 | Link to Comment ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

The slope from 2000-2008 isn't much better.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:12 | Link to Comment raymondrza
raymondrza's picture

2001 looks like the culprit.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:49 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

9/11 was an inside job.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:55 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

+Building 7

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:09 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

yeah so the USA could get all that oil in afganistan

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:47 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

yeah so the USA could get all that oil ACROSS afganistan

Fixed ya right up, there! :>D

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

This place is still filled with Dems and Hussein lovers. 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:20 | Link to Comment Idiot Savant
Idiot Savant's picture

Sadly, it's also filled with morons that think there's a difference between the parties.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:00 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Uneducated morons, ironically.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:41 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I've met a lot more "educated" morons than un 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:47 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I'm talking about posters here.  For this story.  

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 07:50 | Link to Comment BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

Funny how the trolls come out and prove you do need some sort of an education, at least if you want respect on ZH.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:36 | Link to Comment cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Makes me glad I never went to college. Never had the time, work ya know. Parents did not have the money, and even if they had, I would not in my life have allowed them to pay for me to go to college. Once I turned 18, my life - my responsibility.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:40 | Link to Comment Rainman
Rainman's picture

The street is where you really get educated anyway...all other training forgotten.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:39 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thumbs up Rainman.

No amount of "investment" can prepare one for the real world. And there is a special place in hell reserved for those who prey on the hopes & dreams of the young and naive.

Here's one I noticed trying to get out in front of the coming days of rage...after stoking the source of the rage for decades...

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-commencement-address-that-wont-be-given-2012-5?comments_page=2

Not everyone can be the next Da Vinci, Rembrandt, Einstein, Tesla but many are encouraged to believe they are (even though the object knows they are not)...positive reinforcement of known deficiencies is no virtue, it's a lie, a vice.

It takes curiosity, drive, accepting failure as a given stepping stone to ultimate success, love of what you do for yourself or others...and that you may not be recognized for all your passion for what it is that enthralls you till long after you are dead...you may never get present day accolades from your peers, no great wealth or power...you just know you are right and it consumes you to prove it and share it.

All the above are attributes of birth. No degree will give you this.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:17 | Link to Comment piceridu
piceridu's picture

+... this also comes to mind:

What a bright young lady
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M4tdMsg3ts

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:43 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

Please throw your 17 year old daughter out on the street to be "educated."  I've got a "job" for her to do.  She'll "work" for food, right?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:00 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What you are, a banker?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:25 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

I just like to mock this attitude that everyone should throw their children to the wolves the minute they turn 18.

 

I guess that explains the numerous toothless trailer whores and drug addicted street walkers in Las Vegas.

 

Keep up the good work, parent of the year alumni, there is strong market demand for cheap young flesh in this country.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:36 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I should have disclaimed my comment.  I agree with your point above.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Milestones
Milestones's picture

Cole Porter's song "Love for Sale" comes to mind.                     Milestones

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

Most young people are not raised to be self reliant.  They are raised to be wards of their parents until they can pass them on to become wards of the government via our social welfare state.  The state of the economy isn't helping things.  Only the absolute best of the best 18 year olds can even survive on their own these days.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:50 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

Let's review what we've learned:

Being a "homeowner" doesn't magically make you rich because not all homes and/or related financing are the same. If you subsidise homeownership you will mostly get more lower quality product, not  higher.

And having a "college degree" doesn't magically make you rich because not all college degrees and/or related financing are the same.  If you subsidise college degrees you will mostly get more lower quality product, not higher.

Got it?

Exercise for the class: Identify other markets into which the government has similarly inserted itself and see if that pattern holds.

Central Planning: Learning The Hard Way!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:51 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Lessee, subsidized healthcare, subsidized agriculture, ...

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:38 | Link to Comment Rainman
Rainman's picture

PhD's will be spittin on those fast food burgers...don't trust em !

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

I think the burgers taste better now that the adults have taken most the fast food jobs away from the brats! Things are really sad. I'm only laughing so I don't cry.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:05 | Link to Comment kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

I don't eat it but when I tag along with someone in the drive through I'm amazed at the customer service compared to when I would eat fast food 10 years ago!  Most of the workers are polite and competent.  And middle-aged.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:29 | Link to Comment Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

And literate! Not all of the registers have pictures anymore

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:24 | Link to Comment CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

On the surface this reads like progress but my mind can't help but think this is bad.

Par for the course in a post 2008 world I suppose.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:39 | Link to Comment tawdzilla
tawdzilla's picture

can we end the debate already?  high-priced diploma mills are not worth a lifetime of debt bondage. 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:52 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Go further.

They are regressive, conformist institutions that promote regurgitation and discourage proprietary thought or they are making people dumber not smarter.  THe real inflation is never disclosed only the monetary part happens to be, not only have the costs escalated beyond belief but the general product no longer provides unique or valuable skills.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:02 | Link to Comment Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Go further than that.

The only jobs out there are the low paying shitty ones.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:37 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Go further than that...

If the BLS decides to classify "moving into your parents basement" a job, we'll be at full employment by November!

~~~

4 more years!

(& if your parents are divorced & therefore, technically, have 2 basements, we could get to where there are more people working than there are people ~ Hope & Change bitchez!)...

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:47 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

You know what sucks?...we know statists better than they know themselves ;-)

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:08 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Well how else can it be?  The loners out beyond the main herd can see the herd a lot better than the herd can see itself. 

Those loners are the evolutionary leading edge.  They will find the new directions that the herd will end up following.  They will also fall over cliffs or get eaten by wolves more often.  But hey. 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:30 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

Fortune favors the brave.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:44 | Link to Comment defender
defender's picture

Sadly, so does death.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:43 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Good points.

I've always had an affection for the wolf, the real ones. No nonsense, no fabled disguises, no pretense, always protective of it's own, circling, waiting for the right moment.

It's honesty is refreshing ;-)

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:37 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

OK, here is a scary story for you.

The ones orbiting around on the farthest edges of the herd are indeed the wolves.

They are symbiotic with the herd that they prey on.  They chase away scarier things from the outside, and they are the first ones to see whether some territory that the herd is moving toward is good or bad.  They end up guiding it.

The packs who forget that they are symbiotic with the herd, and who think they can eat all the cattle they want, or not guide them properly, or kill for fun -- those packs lose out to smarter ones, sooner or later.

 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:15 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

We got us some dumb assed wolves eating way too many from the herd. Wolf-i-o-paths!

Great metaphor.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:15 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Good points.  It's like the hedonics adjustment in reverse.

"Institutions" do not teach critical thinking or even expose the students to reality.  And now, there are so many of those institutional spawn infecting the workplaces that it's become a fantasyland of smoke and smartboards.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:45 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Further still, for most modern college students the four years (or more) they spend are a fabulous young adult day camp with parties, drugs, sex, endless opportunities for entertainment. The campuses are like paradises with state-of-the-art athletic facilities and Starbucks in every dorm. Learning means going to the 3-4 courses you take every quarter half of which are "History of Gender Inequality in 19th Century Germany" or the like.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:59 | Link to Comment Umh
Umh's picture

Damn; I missed that, I was an adult student. I was already married and working while I went to college. History of the reformation was a hell I put myself through so that I didn't have to take basket weaving 107. I learned that agreeing with the professor would get you a 90 or better and that disagreeing was just stupid. Maybe the hotties were in that basket weaving class.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:06 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

+10,000

Colleges are babysitting for kids that probably cannot read let alone write.  The Obama voting "teacher" screaming at the student is a product of our university system.  She is protected by the union.  I bet if she had to take a 4th grade reading and math test - she would fail.  Hope and ****ing Change.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:40 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

All of my co-workers have college degrees.  We work in an information heavy industry, where one should be expected to read the equivalent of a few hundred pages on any given work day.  But they asked me to trim my emails down to bullet points.  Apparently reading sentences and paragraphs that explain things is too much work for them.  They want the twitter/text message version of the work I've done.

 

ADHD society.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:50 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

tldr  

 

                 :-)

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 04:23 | Link to Comment Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Release your 4th Grade transcript, please.  I have a bet with another member.

Also, I'm guessing you did not major in Islamic Studies at university, and that you do not generally observe the birthday of Philo T. Farnsworth.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:44 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

buhbuhbuh I was told I need a college diploma to get da job

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:44 | Link to Comment Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

Lots of Jobs available for young Americans in the BRICS.

Young jobless Europeans from Portugal are going to booming Brazil or

Angola. Young Spaniards and Italians are going to Argentina. Greeks and Irish to Australia.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:46 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Who needs a job when there's this nice wagon to ride on.....................?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:47 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Hooray! Unemployment Bitches.

Wait until the schools become ghost towns.

For those still current on payments, hang on a while longer.. the limitation of dis chargeable will be repealed or made moot.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:31 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Not so sure about the "ghost town" theory.  I see the "dorms" as potential assisted living facilities for broke baby boomers.  Gives the kids "hands on" training for their new health care careers cleaning bed pans and changing adult diapers.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:52 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

I think the key word here is "some" in "some college."  College dropouts and associates today are really the same group of people who were high school grads 20 years ago; it's just now we give them a chance to fail.  I'm not surprised their employment prospects are the same too.  

Those who graduated from college (especially a real top 20 college or flagship state school) still have better employment prospects, more stable marriages and higher lifetime incomes.  Exceptions and anecdotes abound, but they're like assholes. 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:02 | Link to Comment kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

yeah getting into college and enrolling ina  couple of classes is easy, it's finishing that takes a bit of finesse (granted a college degree doesn't mean nearly as much as "they" say it does)

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:10 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

There's some value in a person who finishes what he started.  If you look at divorce and out-of-wedlock rates, you see the pattern also.  White high school grads and college dropouts have about the same divorce and bastard rates, while white college grads are significantly lower.  

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:14 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Yeah.... but that effect was once described to me as defining the real meaning of a diploma as:  "He ate four years of our shit, he'll probably eat four years of yours."

I'm not sure about finishing what you started.  I am sure that if you're going in the wrong direction it's never too late to turn around.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:37 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

4 years at one job?  Lolololol.

 

Only retards stay at one job for 4 years.  With few exceptions.

 

The only trouble is when your job hopping gets you to the salary ceiling for your industry.  Then you have nowhere to go but down :(.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:16 | Link to Comment Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Only retards stay at one job for 4 years.

Link, please

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 06:04 | Link to Comment Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

This is answer Psyman.
That means you always stay more than 4 years at one job?

And what is your occupation? Expert sanitation manager, specialized in broomsticks?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:53 | Link to Comment Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

Jobless workers?  I love it.

I guess it's like penniless millionaires.  It's more about aspirations than the hard cold reality, maybe?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:56 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

Get with the times, we're in the Facefuck era!

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:57 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Don't forget Hope and Change.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:39 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I wonder if anybody has named their twin daughters that yet.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:49 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I used to have a step grandmother named "Hope" & she used to give me some "Change"...

She's dead...

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:55 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

The number attending college has of course risen since '92, so that ought to be normalized to understand the real rate of change in the red line. 

Doesn't change the punch line...just gives us a sense of how fervently the sheep are obeying the orders of the central planning cabal.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

In the early 80's I took a two month course in Basic Language programming that was being taught as an evening course by Mr. Robert Greenough, a technical high school teacher in the Syracuse, NY area - the cost was $75.  I was able to turn that through continuing self-education into a six-figure salary with a Fortune 10 company.  Yes it would have been nice to have gotten a college degree but I had a job that lasted 25 years without one boring day and got a chance to travel around the world, the highlight of which was spending a month at the 1998 Winter Games in Nagano, Japan - what an experience!  Thank you Mr. Greenough!!!!!!!!!

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:26 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Not taking away from anything you accomplished because you took advantage of what was available and most did not, but part of your success was timing.   You got into the tech boom on the basement floor. Repeat the same exact thing today and you'd likely have a very different result, and there would probably be burger flipping involved.  

 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:37 | Link to Comment Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

That's not true....talent, motivation, and skill always float the cream to the top of the most sought after wage slave category. Once your in the door, its about you 90% of the time.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:00 | Link to Comment geoffb
geoffb's picture

Congratulations on your success, sounds like you worked hard and it work out.

However, its clear you've been out of the game a while. Now, employers want clever, obedient and morally ambivalent employees to support the fact that they have had to make bad choices (read illegal, unsafe or unethical) to keep the business alive.  If they hire someone with talent, motivation and skill, that person puts them in a tough position once they find out. Better to not risk it. "Shortages" of lots of skilled workers precisely because a good portion of the working population still don't want to lie to, endanger or scam others for a living.  Call it "Atlas Limped". Its rampant, even at places you would expect to uphold standards. Ask me how I know. I've been applying for jobs for 4 months and finally got in at one of the most respected workplaces in my community and their financial arrangements are very probably illegal and will certainly doom the organization to bankruptcy. Are talented people pulling together to solve problems there? No, people are just riding the gravy train until the biscuit wheels fall off. Now imagine that on a global scale.

The race is on to get out.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:22 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Atlas Limped."  Love it.

How about just cut to the chase:  "Atlas Thugged."

It's funny that people on this site observe every day that soul-challenged wealthy oligarchs corrupt politicians and regulators, and yet they blame only the politicians and regulators.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:59 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Apparently, you suffer from reading comprehension problems -- have you NOT read anything re: JP Morgan and Jamie Dimon lately?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:37 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

Not at all. Im in my early 20's dropped out of college and moved to Palo Alto. I have a six figure job, bonus, benefits, 3 meals a day, ect. Most of the top engineers in the Bay have little college education, my old CTO had a degree in art from Suny.  Were are dying for engineers in the Bay and there is no college degree required, you just have to know your craft very well.

Programming is not for everyone, you actually have to think and problem solve all day everyday but there is no barrier to entry. When I first moved out here my roommate was 21, dropped out of cal-tech after the first year, and had a job at google.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:47 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Programming is not for everyone, you actually have to think and problem solve all day everyday but there is no barrier to entry."

No offense to your narcissism, but the vast majority of human beings cannot just decide to do what you do.  Is your idea of a society letting people who are exceptional do well, and everyone else flip burgers?  A good education can take an average person and turn him or her into an above average person who is capable of earning and doing more.  Not everyone is born with a gift, my friend.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:17 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

 

 "Is your idea of a society letting people who are exceptional do well, and everyone else flip burgers?"

Well you can only really help yourself and your family and friends. The world is unfair. There are kids who are Harvard scions and then people like me whose parents were dishwahers and a stay-at-home moms. A person can't dwell on the misfortunes of others or else you would waste your life thinking about how kids in Africa can't go to a local library like we all had the opportunity to. Take of you, then help others in anyway you can.

And yes education is essential, I've read more textbooks with more enthusiasm now than ever in highschool or college. With internet access any driven person can become an autodidact. It is hard but it sure as hell isn't the State's business to subsidize liberal arts degrees, and enslave us with 6 figure debt in the hopes some kids become "above average people".

 

 

What's with the name btw? I didn't think any ZHers were big fans of her?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:31 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Well you can only really help yourself and your family and friends. The world is unfair."

Yes, the world is unfair.  I disagree with you that there is no reason to try to help others who are not family and friends, or that society has no place in doing so.   If you were born into poverty, then you were educated in public school.  Thanks to your exceptional intellect, you took that education and moved to Palo Alto and now you wear jeans at work and tell the world it just needs to do what you did.  Well done.  Pull up the ladder.  You're on the life boat.


Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:40 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

"and now you wear jeans at work" 

That was great! lol

 

I don't really disagree with you on anything. Nothing wrong with helping society but I guess since I'm mexican we all already have 100+ cousins all over North America that need help in various ways.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:03 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Ha!  Clever.  All I say is appreciate what you have and realize that your success cannot be replicated by anyone and everyone who wants it.  Some people are lazy and good for nothing and they deserve what they get.  Others try and simply don't succeed, and they deserve better than eating shit.

P.S.  I wore jeans to work today too.

 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:02 | Link to Comment Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

Not only does the unemployment level comparison make one wonder, when the level of debt to pay for college is factored in...

Find a well paid trade which can't be outsourced or made obsolete by technological advancements within your working life.  Preferably a legal trade (or work hard to make it legal).  Or self-educate in a field that would normally require a college degree and work hard to be discovered.

 

 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:02 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

It's not that easy finding an apprenticeship nowadays.  Electricians still got the shaft with the housing bust.  Everyone talks about trades like it's some brilliant idea that their brilliant minds came up with, but take a stroll around some trade forums and you'll see that it's far from a sure thing and there's a lot of competition with illegals.  

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:17 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

I would think some electricians are doing well - the ones who have a steady fix-it business (not so much for those feeding off of the new construction trough).  But to your point, the former is not the hiring type.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:49 | Link to Comment Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

I'm an electrician in NH and I work in a rolled roofing manufacturing plant. You would think with the lack of building we would be slow. Not so. We are actually up 30% over last year which was a record year for us. I don't know if we are just lucky or what, but I know electricians doing residential work in this area have been very slow. My daughter wants to be a nurse, my son wants to be an electrician. Following in their parents footsteps, opefully it works out for them as well as it does for us.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:59 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

We need more electricians, plumbers and mechanics in our politics and less doctors, lawyers and wackademics.

The former know what the problems are and fixes them...the latter point fingers at each other for causing them and try to convince everyone they had nothing to do with it.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:19 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Let's make a list.

  electricians

  plumbers

  mechanics

  welders

  farmers

  miners

  geologists

hmmmm.....

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

Don't forget HVAC.

And if a two year degree can be earned without going into debt by going to school part time while working elsewhere (some of these may not even require a two year degree):

Cell phone system installation and maintenance

Cable/broadband Internet installation and maintenance 

Microwave/fiber optic system installation and maintenance 

Satellite/broadband Internet installation and maintenance (not only single family home installations/maintenance which I happen to know by chance paid the installer $100 per installation years ago, but apartment systems installation and maintenance)

Nearly anything in the medical care fields.

And I don't know how the hiring is in military career fileds right now, but any military career field that's potentially civilian tech related in a branch of service least likely to get you shot (USAF, Navy) may be a free path to an education and actual experience.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:47 | Link to Comment madmax1965
madmax1965's picture

No doubt!  I am an electrical contractor in AZ have been trying to hire for the past two months!  Things appear to be picking up, we will see if it is for real or not!  It is so frustrating you would not believe it!  Hired 3 "electricians" last week, guess how many showed 0.  The one's that are not working are the douchebags that are working the unemployment system. Oh, and the illegals have pretty much gone away, would not hire one anyway.

END THE FED! PEACE OUT BITCHEZ!

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:43 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You are very exclamatory!  

I don't believe you.  Prove anything you say.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:56 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"We need more electricians, plumbers and mechanics in our politics and less doctors, lawyers and wackademics."

You mean we need "fewer" doctors etc.  An education would help with that.  Are you serious that we need less [sic] doctors?  You know what Ron Paul is, right?


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 19:03 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

You really do have reading comprehension problems don't you?

"We need more electricians, plumbers and mechanics in our politics and less doctors, lawyers and wackademics."

I was as clear as the written word can be.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:46 | Link to Comment pursueliberty
pursueliberty's picture

While the trades are far from perfect, most all of them are better than a majority of four year degrees.

There are a lot more jobs in plants/refineries/powerstations for electricians than you would imagine.  I know of very few self employed electricians, but I personally graduated high school with over 20 who work in some capacity at a plant.  Self employment is still a viable option in many cases and the two self employed electricians I know personally are pretty sucessful, minus a lack of new home building.  I did see something for the first time involving electrical.  A all mexican crew, who did proper code work very well.

 

Plumbing on the other hand is a wonderful trade, but does take a dedication for 6 years to reach self employment.  I called three last week to fix a problem on a rental and none could get to it that day.  Thus I had to go to home depot and fix it myself that evening. 

HVAC is another that you can get into very easily.  All the new units are junk and there is a replacement element not found with electricity.  People don't think about the wiring in their homes, but you better believe they will call someone when the air goes out or the toilet doesn't flush.  I paid $200 last week for a guy to spend 20 minutes pumping 3 pounds or R22 into a system.  I could do that twice a day and make a decent living.  My FIL will occasionally have a 20 hour week in this field and net $2500.  He doesn't push to do it full time as there is no need with another business he has.  

 

I graduated with a trade degree.  I switched from a finance degree in 04 to become a registered nurse.  While a great "job", it suffers pretty seriously from a wage stagnation in most areas.  Starting pay at a lot of hospitals has seen a 10% rise in the last 10 years.  Max pay is pretty shitty for floor nursing and you have to deal with a lot of extrogen, which can be a real bitch.  I only worked in the field for a year, but boy did I learn a lifetime of lessons and a little about humanity.  It is a field that will never be properly respected until man takes a active role in the oversight/direction.  I had intentions of becoming a self employed practitioner.  That is where family care is going.  We haven't had a new family practice MD in my 100k area covering three counties in 20 years.  We do have a new practitioner though.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:25 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

The key is to practice your trade in a high income area.  The yuppies pulling 6 figures in NYC/suburbs or L.A. or D.C. etc. don't want to get their hands dirty, so you can charge those outrageous fees and make a killing.  Hell, people quit IT jobs with 6 figure salaries and go into the land scaping business and make far more money around these areas than they ever could have keeping their 6 figure job.

 

But try being a tradesman in West Virginia.  Good luck.  The people mostly do the work themselves or barter and are too poor to pay outrageous hourly rates otherwise.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:17 | Link to Comment Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Hell, people quit IT jobs with 6 figure salaries and go into the land scaping business and make far more money around these areas than they ever could have keeping their 6 figure job.

Link, please

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:01 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:53 | Link to Comment Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

I'm in construction (commercial end) for 20+ years in Jersey and have yet to see an illegal (I'm assuming Mexican?) electrician in the 'top slot'.

A little advice, illegals are not brain trust, just labor, remember that the contractor won that job by being the "low bidder" and that his success is yours as well (something the unionized dipshit could give 2 fucks about) and that production trumps bullshit everytime.....

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:38 | Link to Comment Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

@guinea

Yep its hard to find apprenticeship, buzzword for union. Anyone who wants to learn a trade should try to get on with a non-union independent. Craigslist is full of these what I would call mentorships.  Learn from the president of the firm, not some union schmuck thats cock of the walk because of his years of service. Learn from the guy whose ass is totally on the line.  Be prepared to bust ass for low pay and all the grunt work you can handle. #Study.

The only electricians that got the shaft during the housing bust were the ones too lazy to change with the times...market to a different segment...lower overhead...cut staff...get closer to the work. Many independents were already close to the work being one to five man shops.  Many of these failures too were lazy overpaid (overpriced) hacks without a marketing plan, and too much truck payment...too proud to roll in a four banger hatch back...gotta have the Super Duty. Stoopid is as stoopid does and in those days any brainless cock with a hammer and a tool belt  commeth a God's gift to carpentry.  

Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

I know of what I speak. 25 years in the Tile Biz plus BS in Civil E circa '93 and a recent MBA Finance and Org Dev.  That's seven years of post HS to gain the honor of scrubbing your shitter. But I'm the guy getting the jobs. I'm the one scalping the former Gods of thinset mortar while they pine away for the good old days - never to return no never to return.

I have done my homework on construction markets and marketing like a top trader does capital markets. Macro says we are in a depression, cutomers can and do get more for less. So its better to have revenue at low pay than none at all. I have grown my biz in the last three years from just me to now four of us.  The guys I get are the absolute best.  

The other thing peeps entering the trades need to understand is a functional use of spanish, something wasted on the former God's of the trades where the conventional refrain was, "This is 'merica learn to speak English!" The demographics of the industry do not support a stubborn attachment to monoligualism.

As an anecdote, my current best client fields an all spanish speaking crew, the super and his carpenters, the electrician, the plumber and the painter and so on.  I signed on in October for one job that became four more simply beacuse I attempted to learn to speak the language.  Of course my price was right on the first one, my work was good and I got my shit done on time, but I kid you not, I would not have gotten the second job if I had not made the super my advocate, learning the rudiments of espanol was the key to him abiding in me.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:24 | Link to Comment Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"there's a lot of competition with illegals"

That seems to indicate that you're talking about the construction related trades and I can understand why that's a tough area to find a job in many locations right now.  There's competition from illegals even when the housing market is good (and that's one of the reasons why nothing but lip service is ever paid to the problem).  I knew a neighbor who is an electrician who educated me about that.  Illegals are everywhere in this state.

The more skilled trades are less likely to have that problem.  Non-outsourcable jobs/trades that require two year degrees obtained without going into debt or substantial debt (going to school part time while working at any job to pay for tuition and essentials like food and a place to live).  Considering our aging US demographics, anything in the medical fields would be a good bet.  Cell phone system, cable system installation and maintenance through a two year electronics tech degree are others. Natural gas fracking is a rapidly growing field and I don't know if a specialized education is even required.

I know it's a hell of lot easier to give advice than to succeed in finding a good job in this miserable economy, but following the thought process - what can't be outsourced, what won't become obsolete, what is a field likely to grow or is already growing - is something that too many people deciding upon what to do with their life or where to find a job may not be doing in many cases.  But I can understand that many may not have the money to move to a location where such jobs may be available, especially if they have a family and a home they can't sell or can't sell for what they paid for it.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

White people think they are too good to get their hands dirty.  The white community places high social value on college education, even to its own economic detriment.

 

Guy I know started an HVAC apprenticeship.  He said the whole class was full of black guys, a few Mexicans, and 2 white guys.  I hear the same about CDL/truck driving courses these days.

 

But white people would rather have their son unemployed and living at home with his History degree at the age of 26 than making $200K a year in his own small business, married, and raising a family.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:17 | Link to Comment Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

But white people would rather have their son unemployed and living at home with his History degree at the age of 26 than making $200K a year in his own small business, married, and raising a family.

Link, please

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:13 | Link to Comment Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Nice.

I was gonna go with this one if someone junked me.  Since somone will here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7WZ5gd4ZpY

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:02 | Link to Comment greensnacks
greensnacks's picture

The folks behind sites like http://www.saylor.org/, http://p2pu.org, http://ocw.mit.edu/, http://www.flatworldknowledge.com/ and http://www.oercommons.org/ will resolve the high price of education. It's getting there.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:51 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

Udacity.com   http://www.khanacademy.org/ https://www.coursera.org/ http://mitx.mit.edu/

Are excellent too! These classes are all taught by Stanford (or equally prestigious universities) There is revolution in high education going on right now. 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:20 | Link to Comment Azwethinkweiz
Azwethinkweiz's picture

Unless the youth turn off the television and disconnect from the time-wasting social networking sites, we're doomed to live in Idocracy. The top innovative minds will be deciding which flavor of the month Brawndo should be.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:21 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

I think next great divide in classes will be between those who can think and maintain concentration against those who want a constant stimulation ala a twitter feed to life. 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Azwethinkweiz
Azwethinkweiz's picture

That is the great divide presently.

The next great divide will be those who are both mentally and physically fit, fighting against those who are not---who are trying to loot your home, your neighbor's home or your local grocery store for anything edible to feed themselves and their kids.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:39 | Link to Comment reader2010
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:57 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Look on the bright side, it's only cost us $1 Trillion (so far).

Compared to the national debt, we have $15 Trillion more to go!

Ctrl-P$ to keep the Higher Ed. U.S.S.A. Canard afloat!

Making fries is more complicated than it looks!

Just think of the improvements in Bling placement from the art majors!

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:03 | Link to Comment laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

It's a shame you did not show this chart to readers back in 2003 when it would have been useful.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:20 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

At the risk of shamelessly pandering to my favorite site on the entire intertubes bar none, ZH did not exist in 2003.  

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 03:07 | Link to Comment laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

oh, I guess maybe he was still in college back then.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:04 | Link to Comment pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

... since when did college education become job training for slaves?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:20 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

More than 30 years ago.  But the real reason is to indoctrinate young people into a life time of debt based indentured servitude.

 

Anyone graduating with these massive student loan debts should skip the country.  $100K is an immense sum of money for a young person starting out in this world.  They'll be lucky to pay it off by the time they are in their 50's.

 

Just get on a plane to SOMEWHERE and don't come back.  Australia's doing alright these days...

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:23 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Back when credit was easier to come by, there were a few inventive souls who figured out they could wipe their student loans in bankruptcy by transferring them to various other credit lines, then wiping those unsecured lines.  Of course that would be wrong.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:04 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

You can still buy gold with credit cards.

 

So go to college on student loans.  Get the best education you can in some marketable area of study.  Use your remaining student loans and credit cards to purchase gold and a plane ticket to your new home.

 

Emigrate elsewhere and refuse to pay the student loans/credit cards.  Sell the gold and start a life for yourself.

 

This is actually the optimal path for a young person from a poor/humble background in America today.  But "ethics" (slave morality) stands in the way, preventing the peasants from taking the optimal path.

 

I'd do it but by the time I had significant credit available I was already old and finished with college.  But...You can still buy gold with credit cards.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Is this what you did?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:32 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

No.  As a low born peasant the banking elite knew better than to extend credit to me when I was young and needed it.  Now that I'm old and have assets/networth they are more than happy to extend massive credit lines to me.

 

That's one thing that doesn't really get explored in these pieces about college loans.  Are they giving these loans directly to the students or are they actually giving them to their parents/grand parents as co-signers?

 

See, that is what traps people in these debts - family obligations.  They don't want to leave mom and dad with the 6 figure student loan debt while they move out of the country.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:04 | Link to Comment Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Not unlike you I was a low born peasant.  Yet Uncle Citibank extended credit to me at a young age.

Seems like they would have done the same for you, no?  The last 30+yrs have been a credit boom after all.  Maybe you made a typo on your credit app. 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:30 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

I never understood the allegiance to a country some people have. You were born into one place and were essentially given a deal. You have the full freedom to leave this country to move someplace with laws more to your liking.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:06 | Link to Comment Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Where you at GFK?

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:15 | Link to Comment URZIZMINE
URZIZMINE's picture

Australia. Wrong. I just got back from there. Very expensive. Real estate, brutal. Food, double the US. Brew, very expensive. A case of corona is $50. Australian brew, crappy.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 00:32 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

Any price is worth it to live and work amongst white people instead of living among savages as in the United States.  Things are cheap in America because it's a country full of illiterate Mexicans working for near minimum wage.  Australia is full of white people and the minimum wage is a living wage.

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:09 | Link to Comment libertus
libertus's picture

College is broken and the debt it is creating is really large. This is a good brief on the whole issue. I would check it out. 

http://vermont.academia.edu/RobertSkiff/Papers/1296007/Blowing_the_Last_...

Please check it out. 

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:18 | Link to Comment Psyman
Psyman's picture

Nothing to see here.

 

The reason the number of people with "some college" that are unemployed has gone up is because EVERYONE tries to go to college these days.  Everyone.  They are practically forced into it by the school system that tells them you MUST go to college.  This propaganda starts in middle school, and high school is basically a 4 year college prep course.

 

And "some college" is as good (bad) as "no college" in the eyes of an employer.  You either have a degree, or you don't.  And don't come telling me about your associate of arts in general studies from the community college of bumfuck America.  That's worthless too.

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