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Biderman On Europe: "Germany Must Say No To Greece, Spain, & Italy"
After offering his condolences for the loss today of Dan Dorfman, Charles Biderman, of TrimTabs, takes the Greeks (and Germans) to task. Charles remains long-term bearish on European stocks (and the big US banks). Greeks, it appears from Charles perspective, want to stay in the Euro but on easier terms. This, at first glance, perplexes the less-than-sanguine Sausalitan, given the disastrous economic situation they remain in. However, on reflection, Biderman realizes that the simple fact is that the Greeks like the ability to borrow money to pay their bills and even better, never having to repay the loan - which makes perfect sense. If the Germans are willing to keep lending to Greece, even if most goes to repay old loans, then Greeks keep getting some new cash - which would disappear if the Greeks left the Euro. This situation, he opines, would seem 'horrible' as "Greeks might have to go and do something for a living and even pay some taxes". Concluding on the three types of creditors that exist, it is little wonder that the Greeks, in their ponzi state, would want to keep the dream alive and hold the M.A.D. grenade over Germany's head just a little longer. The brutal truth is that Greece (and Spain and Italy) will take as much cash as they can until there is no more given and then-and-only-then will they act for change. The disastrous end-result will be the same as if Germany left the Euro and first mover advantage in this case may well prove exceptionally valuable.
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Kinda like this guy...........
My family and personal life is falling apart.
It could be worse.
You could be Italian and taking the Sandusky Treatment
We are in a worldwide debt bubble collapse.
$65 trillion in European total debt and $52 trillion of total debt in the US (excluding social security, medicare, medicaid, etc.)
Not sure what "saying no" to Greece, Italy, and Spain is going to do to prevent this central banking debt bubble collapse.
Little Miss Merkle
Runs in a circle
Beating the Kurds and Spain
Along came the Tiger
And dead panned besider
You are totally fucked and so is Greece, Spain and Italy
The thing is, the whole thing was Germany's fucking idea to begin with. You reap what you sow, Krauts!
Redpill. You are a bloody liar and a douche bag for that matter.
France is not Germany. François Mitterrand was a socialist French president. Jacques Delors is a socialist French politician.
Germany would have never given up the Deutsche Mark without foreign pressure. The whole idea was to weaken Germany. It will bankrupt Germany.
No, you are wrong. Was always Germany's long term aim to get control of Europe via this mechanism and boost its competitiveness in the process. The French wanted to keep Germany under control, and thought this was the best way. Advanced muppetry on their part, I would say.
You're all wrong. All these "elected" leaders are puppets for the NWO. The world is being crashed by design, so they can implement a world currency.
I don't see the contradiction with what I said.
You are not correctly informed - France forced Germany to give up the Deutsche Mark in return for Reunification. Their aim was to weaken Germany...ridiculous in hindsight, but politicians are really dumb.
As for me, I would have preferred to keep the Mark and the Wall.
You've got you're history quite wrong there. Germany was pressured into the Euro as a requirement for France's consent to a unified Germany. In other words, Germany was made France's bitch.
things kinda changed eh? looks like france will soon become germany's bitch :P
False! East Germany imploded and the wall came down. Instant reunited Germany. France had no say in the matter. And today we have the evil intended consequences of the Euro experiment.
It is useless trying to apportion blame. It is pain that we need to apportion and quite often it is not possible to apportion pain in the same proportion as blame because the means are inadequate.
Greek governments fucked up badly and also created a false sense of prosperity amongst many of its citizens. Foreign banks lent without due diligence and EU subsidies were misspent without accountability sought or given for the most part. France and Germany felt it was their obligation to then save the lenders and in the process endangered their own finances.
The bottom line is that the little guys in France, Germany and Greece have always struggled to exist and now they are asked to pay the price for the big mistakes made by politicians and bankers so that the mega rich do not have to take a write off.
If the super rich are not willing to take a write off, the question remains as to how much pain can the little people take before exploding?
Greece may well deserve a great deal of pain, but I fear her means to deal with that pain are beyond mathematical and human expectations particularly as the rich have already exported their wealth to safer shores without even having paid the countless billions they owe for avoided taxes.
In the end Greece will not pay anywhere near what she owes but her punshment will be to live like a third world nation for at least two decades.
@SilverTree:
"My family and personal life is falling apart."
That post sent a chill down my spine.
(Hit a little close to home.)
http://www.ihatestraws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/problem-in-your-life.jpg
Thanks for the link,
all better now,
May I ask why? What happened?
No but thanks for asking.
Sorry to hear you're in a rough patch, SilverTree. At least you're not this guy - someone I work with was just arrested for flying to Florida for the purposes of having sex with an 11 year-old girl. When he arrived at the pre-arranged meeting place with a bag of skittles and 3 packages of condoms he found out the 11 year-old girl was a police detective. He was arrested and charged with a long list of child sex crimes. He is married with 3 teenage kids. At least you're not this guy, his wife, or any of his high school age kids.
Thanks EDog.
Seems to me that your soon to be ex coworker has found his place in life. Anyone, and I mean anyone who seeks to sex with an eleven year should be in prison. I do not know this to be fact: men who have sex with eleven year old children are very popular in prison. Again this is only hear say but I believe that long term residents of incarcerationl institutions are always looking for just these type of sub humans.
The have sex with children kinda of guys are always needed for additional, intensive and at times aggresive direct physical activity. After these type of close and intimate encounters, the have sex with children guys are given long and peacful weeks / months to stay in bed and reflect on why and how they find themselves at this point in their life.
Should it be required there are numerous ethnic based social groups who are more than willing to make an exception and allow have sex with children guys to join their particular club for brief yet unforgetable days involving new and at times bizarre orifice realignment.
It is important for the have sex with children guys to make a genuine and heartfelt transition from one who did these things to one who will never to them again. If they are result in this transformation the odds of them successfully returning to civilasation without the desire
fly to Florida to make an 11 year old! I thought Florida only has 111 year olds!
wait for the silver lining.
Sorry to hear.
Maybe some Gil might help?
http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/3087.html
You know, it's OK to take a break from ZH and put that time elsewhere. They will still be kicking the can when you get back...
ain't this the truth!
:[ I'm sorry
I've been there, it sucks but it does get better.
That's not a good excuse. It could make you a target as a CIA patsy.
Here is a good excuse: I'm not feeling well because my face was eaten by a psychopath after he chopped off my arms and legs
One thing I've found is that if you let anyone know you are down you are certain to get kicked--especially if it is your spouse.
Already your down arrows are rapidy climbing.
I'll say this: you have an unusual post but at least it is a complaint.
Sorry to hear that. Hang in there.
That is what Merkel said at G20 in Cabo today. Got to agree with her.
http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/bailout-fizzies-spanish-italian-yields-jump-spain-10s-over-7/
sorry to hear about Mr. Dorfman as well. Why would Greece not want to exit the euro? Because it would result in an immediate cut of at least 40% to everyone's living standard in that country that's why! Wouldn't you look for a "third way" if "getting killed within or getting killed without" were the other two options? I know i would. Anywho was quite the oration from what I hear at Mr. Dorfman's honorarium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ee6xrIGhcY&feature=player_detailpage
if only Greece could be so lucky...
Socialism is great if you're a slacker. The unfairness of it all has finally crept up to the level of nation states. Bazinga! It's not so fun if you're the only productive country having to foot the bill for all the slacker countries. Not too late for Germany to say adios to the freeloading losers and sell BMWs to the Russians and Chinese.
I never did think Germany had the stomach to put on the old SS uniforms and enforce all the tax collections around the EU that is going to be necessary. The Greek tax office is closed for the duration of this epoch.
As if the Germans don't have Socialism...er, sorry..."Social Welfare." Granted "a more successful variant." Needless to say "in this war you don't need to fire a shot to win"...to a point of course. All economics ultimately is is "all about the trade-off's." And no, taking one of your most interested in trading partners and turning his home in a Gulag Archipelego is not a trade-off Germany!
Yawn. In fact the stats show that the Greek work much longer hours on average than Germans. The Krauts are the slackers.
Longer hours serving Ouzo and picking olives. It's productivity that makes a economy tick. And even with higher wages in Germany, the per unit labor costs are low so German economy is efficient.
As noted above me, productivity is key. Another factor is type of industry. A disproportionately large tourism and agricultural sector invariably means longer working hours. Take a look at Austria, I think we even hold the European record, which is largely a result of our sector focus, i.e. a healthy chunk are employed in tourism. Again... it's not who works harder or longer, but who lives within their means. Either your economy can sustainably support a national lifestyle, infrastructure and social welfare or it can not. If not, don't expect others to support it for you. Try to live within your means, its as simple as that.
"work"
stats given to you by the greek state? LOL mate you're a idiot
auf wieder sehen
He looks like he is sitting on a ledge. I keep waiting for him to sign off by doing the backwards scuba diving fall while doing his crazy laugh.
If you've ever been to Sausalito you know that's a very expensive view...
Few words and loughs explain more on economics than mainstream media in 100 years.
Why is it that all these gloomers look like they are about to commit suicide?
Heh, look at Sandy Weill, Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein, etc. All those guys are always laughing, living it up, having a great time, enjoying the billions they have in wealth.
Even Ted Turner, who was nearly wiped out, he's still an optimist, cracks jokes all the time, brags about having 4 girlfriends at the same time.
Seems that the ones that are laughing, are sticking the bill to all the ones who aren't.
I think they are called psychopaths.
Ted Turner's case is indeed a paradox. By most (blonde and beautiful) women's yardstick he should be a loser since he lost so much money but boy-o-boy he is having the life of a retired race horse having the best picks to park his tool now and then. He indeed represents the markets thinking. If the unemployment number comes low spin it as if it is not as bad as it could have been. :-)
Because legalized crime can make very happy, at least if you are on the right side of the game.
But does he still say "this deal feels as good as the first time i made love"? Too bad we didn't get that treatment with the Facebomb IPO at ZH HQ. "Hoodies and hacking" seems so modest in comparison. Ah, the media...is there anything they love to talk about more than the media? Hmmmm. I didn't think so. Still...the silence is deafening from a certain quarter. Or is that Whispering Death?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=24IQfAQrZqM
Asshole -
no thats the abyss.
This whole "lazy Greeks mantra" is really getting boring. It has been shot down about a million times already, yet guys who look like vampires continue trying to breathe life to this zombie. Maybe this Biderman vampire with that sexy shirt who knows jackshit about Europe or Greece should look at something really extravagant once in a while, like a graph, or, a report, or, say, OECD numbers???
http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL
Yeah, Greeks actually work more than Germans. Can we finally move on now and change the tape? And will ZH ever decide to run articles and videos of people on their actual expertise, not their parroting of official creditor bs 'wisdom' when they know jackshit and don't bother to check a few facts first? Every moron now has an opinion on Europe. Well, ok, but do some freakin' homework first, you lazy vampires with sexy shirts!
Nah. I guess I'm asking for too much.
That's nice. Now tell me why "productive" Greeks have to live off of "lazy" Germans.
They don't. These are loans, and the money goes straight back to the creditors, interest added. If you don't believe me, how about the Financial Times and JP Morgan?
James Mackintosh of the Financial Times reported that JP Morgan produced some figures a few days ago that showed where the money provided to Greece in its much-publicised bailouts actually went. Here's what James said on twitter:
"JP Morgan estimates only €15bn of €410bn total "aid" to Greece went into economy - rest to creditors. No wonder they are cross"
Sorry to break that wonderful bedtime story, I guess people will have to come up with another one to satisfy all those red arrows who feel like I spoiled the party.
We all know that... The question is why did the "productive" Greeks need the loans in the first place? I'll tell you why... Just like most of rest of the western world they consume more than they produce.
No, you didn't know any of that. Otherwise, you wouldn't have asked why Greeks have to live off Germans. Try again.
Hey noob there isn't a person here that doesn't know the bail out was for more than what Greece owed, and went to make the lenders whole. Most people here are pissed about the injustice . But again .... Why did the " productive" Greeks need the bail out in the 1st place? You keep avoiding that question.
Because they and the whole south were trapped in the equivalent of a fixed exchange rate that was bad for them, their exports and their competitiveness but good for the Germans who set the ECB policy. In other words, it was a hard euro for the south and a cheap euro for the north. It's what economists call systemic imbalances. It's one of the reasons Germany is not going to go back to the DM, because with the DM they will lose a lot of their exports and their competitiveness, not because they are taken advantage of as morons like Biderman portray it. It's not a morality story the way you think it is. Try again.
Oh, and spare me the 'noob' crap. Try to have arguments instead because that shit won't fly with me, sorry. We are not in high school anymore, or at least a few of us have moved on!
Well I'll spend you the noob crap when you stop pretending that you are the only person who knows anything about the Greek bail outs. I can guarantee you most people here know a lot more about the details than you do. We have been dealing with this for three years now and Tyler has broken down the details on the bail outs long ago. Maybe you should do some research on the site and read some of the quality analysis.
As far as your excuse.... That's exactly what it is. Tell me one quality export Greece has. Do they have a great brand names like BMW? Volkswagen ? Porsche ? Siemens ? The list goes on. If you make a quality product then people will buy it.
Well, if most people here know about all this, then how come the story Biderman repeats here gets all that praise but those who point the obvious get so many red arrows? I mean, did you even bother to look at the comments? Am I blind? Are you?
As far as Greece goes, even though there are many problems with its economy, it hadn't gotten in any trouble since WWII. How does your story fit this fact? That was because it could always devalue, and cheap export surplus money from the north couldn't get in like with the Euro. So it is not an excuse. It's a fact. And Spain had (gasp!) a surplus and less debt than Germany when the crisis started. So much for the 'profligate' story. But it did have all that cheap money flood from the north looking for yield which created the housing bubble.
Like I said, if you want a simple, neat morality story, read a children's book.
If it's like Portugal, most of the money in Greece was wasted by corrupt politicians and their buddies. This would've happen via things like:
As for unproductivity, in my experience from Portugal, this is due to spectacularly bad management: most people work very hard (even the managers), but management is disorganized and almost entirelly made up of reactive firefighting.
Interestingly enough, I see a lot of the same things in the UK (and, I hear, the US). I suspect that thanks to the size of their economies, their linguistic advantages (which provide them with a flow of smart foreigners) and, at least in the UK, support structures still in place from a past as a great mercantile power, they have more room to hide the inefficiencies of their economies as they are now.
The contrast of this against the way things are done in the likes of Holland (where I lived for many years) is huge. Certainly the UK is a lot more like Portugal and Greece (minus the sun and the good food) than it is like Holland.
You make it sound like the Greeks were forced into the Euro. Last I checked, they wanted in the Euro knowing the austerity requirements beforehand.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1095783.stm
Oh, they also hired Goldman to hide their budget issues, Enron style. They get what they signed up for.
So did another 4 countries, the Goldman swaps were pretty popular back then. And Italy did some nice derivatives deals with Morgan Stanley. And France had a 3.4 deficit. Yet they were all admitted, because it was a political decision, by mostly (gusp!) Germany who wanted them all in for her exports. They all got in hoping for the best, and it turned otherwise. Like I said, if you want to have an opinion, do some freakin' reading. Use google. Do something!
If you want a simple morality story instead, grab a children's book.
"So did another 4 countries" - Agreed, and they all deserve to have the same thing happen to them too.
"it was a political decision, by mostly (gusp!) Germany" - Yes, Germany wanted them in for their exports. But again, nobody forced Greece to enter.
"They all got in hoping for the best, and it turned otherwise." - Yes. Greece should not have gone in "hoping for the best". I would never enter a wrestling match with someone twice my size, no matter how sweetly they talked, and "hope for the best".
"If you want a simple morality story instead, grab a children's book." - I agree with you again! Life isn't fair, and Greece should not expect Germany to be. They need to lose the Euro and pull an Iceland. They've survived for thousands of years, with many defaults before, and can do so again if they'd just stop whining and start working.
Gee, here we go with the "lazy Greeks" again who are not working (unless you mean the 23% unemployment, resulting from the great solidarity policies).
Reality check, yet again:
http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL
For the millionth time, Greeks work more hours than Germans.
Agree on pulling an Iceland though. Finally, we are getting somewhere.
And the Irish, to whom the IMF just said all the efforrts they did, all they accolplished worth nothing, they're fucked up anyway,
The Irish story is even more depressing. They got really screwed, royally. They were the first ones who had to pull an Iceland. It's a shame they didn't. But it just goes to show, that even though people everywhere thought they were in for something big, historic, inspiring, they all got screwed. And the last thing I want to see is the Greeks and the Irish and the Spanish fighting the average German, who also got screwed so that Merkel could bailout her Frankfurt masters.
It's truly depressing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155304
"They are collected by individual national statistics authorities who each have their own methods of collecting and collating information." - So Greece reports its own numbers? Oh.
Even if they're accurate, it's a tally of billed hours. There are a few folks in my office who "work" a full week, but hardly do anything. Hours are less important than productivity.
These are not government statistics, they are employer and employee agencies' stastistics. And OECD statistics are generally considered very reliable. And yes, productivity is very important, but work is work. As someone once said:
"If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire."
Maybe Greeks work more hours than Germans but Germans work efficiently. They took their medicine some years ago and improved their efficiency so they could compete even with higher wages.
But it's only $1.3 trillion in liabilities split between 10.5 million people.
That's not much, is it?
$1,300,000,000,000/10,500,000 = $123,809.52 < $1,048,824 Unfunded Liabilities/Tax Payer in the US.
hmm ... that does seem a bit high-ish.
Pity they didn't have the brazen-arsehole-tribe gene, as they could have just bundled it all up and bribed a ratings-agency to get it rated AAA, then engaged the heretofore overflowing-with-fiduciary-goodness of Goldman Sachs to pass it on to the muppet dumb-money in Nigeria's Treasury, whilst using their oil fields a backing on the loans.
Hot-diggity dawg!
I suppose someone else already covered those with all sorts of shitty-deal jiggery-pokery ... and probably several times.
thanks for doing the math.
I'll bet you he did know that because ZH ran the story about most of the money going to creditors before the MSM. Stop dodging the question and please tell us why they needed a (1st/2nd) bailout in the first place.
You can blame the Greeks, but not for not working the jobs they don't have, but for letting corrupt politicians lead the country and allowing rich people not to pay taxes.
Banks have to get their loans paid back otherwise the whole world would go belly up, tanks would be running in the streets and people would be drowning in their own blood. This has been told the taxpayer since 2007. The money is only for the banks! Nothing new here.
Didn't many of the Greek's creditors get their heads shaved. I don't think they are too happy about the money they lent to Greece. So who are those creditors that got all the dough?
Mostly German banks, who got bailed out stealthily by European taxpayers. Here is how it happened:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-23/merkel-should-know-her-country-...
The haircut btw hit mostly greek pension funds and banks (something like 50-60% of the haircut). Then, the banks got recapitalized with money which Greece again had to borrow! Wonderful, huh?
Love the irony of calling Greeks "productive" and Germans "Lazy". Up arrow for you...
They may work more hours than Germans, but what counts is how much shit you get done in those hours. German productivity stomps Greece's, even if they work fewer hours than Greeks. That's the crux of their problems, a sclerotic labor market that traps workers in non-productive pursuits.
The Greeks are acting like idiots. Sorry, they are. Two elections and they re-vote the party that boned them the first time. Austerity is to keep German/French banks from being naturalized becuase they are greedy risk engines.
The only thing Greece has, is tourism, nothing else. Go back to the drachma, devalue it to hell and have the wealthy northern Europeans flock to Greece. When the middle east blows up (after Obama is voted back in), Greece will be a tourist safe haven. They should create a tourism bond of some sought, peg the currency rate to that. I dunno, use their f*cking lazy brains. No sympathy at all.
Thank you.
Good thing Americans aren't...
Lazy brains LOL. Everywhere Greeks go on the planet they are anything but lazy brains. Anybody with a brain and an ounce of ethics is NOT allowed to make decisions on a national level. The oligarchy has a stranglehold on everything in Greece.
Just look at the choices Greeks had: New Democracy and Siriza: Shitty and shittier(in any order you like). That's why there was a record 39% who didn't vote, the real majority in this election. All the political parties save for Golden Dawn and Independent Greeks are beholden to banks! They all owe millions in "loans". This includes the so-called communist KKE.
Siriza is the party the oligarchy has on standby for when the SHTF. We'll see if their plans come to fruition. There are alot of people who strongly dislike them and the meme that Syriza didn't want to win this election is gaining steam. There are alot of people who see Tsipras as aspiring to be the next Andreas Papandreou, and these same people look back and curse Andreas Papandreou(George's father) for kicking off the country's destruction.
Papandreou came to power in 81 the same year Greece joined the EC. Before this Greece's national debt was small and the state efficient. The EC opened up avenues for new loans, which Papandreou pursued for 2 reasons: 1 to buld a political dynasty and 2 to make the state the center of economic life. He handed out money to people to buy votes, and simultaneously destroyed production and dismantled industries to get people dependent on the state, particularly his party PASOK. He imperceptibly frayed the moral fiber of the people. No surprise, debts soared to new heights and the economy entered the shitter in the mid-late 80's.
From what I understand, what he did with the farmers is interesting. He told them to hit the fields and grow as much as they can. Grow grow grow, we have new markets to sell to and we'll make money! And the farmers did that with the trappings of middle class life dancing before their eyes: a vacation to Paris, a new automobile, etc etc. What happened finally? All the excess production was buried, literally! Buried in land fills. He told the farmers this must be done or else the prices will fall too low. This of course demoralized the farmers. Over the next growing seasons, he then came at them with subsidies. Don't grow food and we'll pay you! All it takes is one malaka in each village to accept this, go and park his ass at the local cafeneio, and play the role of manga: 'look at the suckers toiling away in the fields while I sit in the shade with my pockets full". His neighbors toiling in the field they start thinking 'what a malaka I am, I'm busting my ass while he clowns around and for what? He makes more money than me!" So they compromise their morals, which leads to eventually compromising all your morals and anything goes. 30 years later, farmers go on strike and shut down national road networks and ferries at the local harbors when the State doesn't give them the subsidies they want to sit on their ass! These new farmers have lost the moral fiber of their ancestors, all they have known is entitlements and the easy life.
This is changing though. Even though Syriza subtly promises to be the new Pasok, almost all the rural areas rejected them for New Democracy despite widespread dislike of Samaras. Anyway it will HAVE to change. No more nanny state. Now, anyone with a plot of land (outside of the cities everyone has one) is growing food.
Yeah, but Germans don't retire aged 41 with final salary pentions. They pay tax too, save money and all they ask in return is that their towels get pride of place on the sun loungers while on holiday in Greece.
The Germans should just stop with this bullshit Nazionalschulz (sorry if I've got it spelled wrong). They still feel guilty for WWII. They need to get over it and join the powerhouses of the world politically again. They have to ditch this stupid notion of having to keep the Frogs happy so that there's peace in Europe. Nobody's going to invade anybody, just get over it and put the EU to rest. The sooner Germany realizes its future lies as a sovereign state on the European continent instead of 'an equal partner in the union of nations', the better. I feel sorry that the world wars happened, obviously, but Germany can forget about the dead-weight EU countries and prosper once again without them shackling them to mediocrity. The sooner Germany realizes that if they get with the program and cut the feckless southern europeans (including the French) loose the faster they'll be able to move on. Forget about 'helping' them out, they signed their own economy-death warrants going into monetary union with you! It's not your fault!!!!
I blame Gollum and his Belgian ilk for all this crap.
Sorry to brake your bubble, but it was German banks that run amok for a decade and gave more than a TRILLION in loans to those deadbeat southern untermenschen. It was all nice because they made a few basis points and those lazy southerners could buy lots of German stuff. Now all those loans which are somehow called "aid" are to bail out not the southern untermenschen but to bail out German financial interests. Normally, when banksters behave that stupidely, in normal capitalism they go out of business. But they found out they could loan EVEN MORE money, this time European taxpayer money to the nations that are broke to make up for their stupidity, get their money back and call it "solidarity". They also had to invent stories about lazy, profligate southern untermenschen who get pensions at 50 (how that is already down to 41, wow, lots of deflation here real quick!).
But don't listen to me. Listen to Biderman. He knows what he is talking about!
Ok, it's not unreasonable for Germany to want something to recompense German taxpayers, who are now taking it up the Khyber-Pass ... well, ... if you look at it just in those narrower terms.
But why do that? That's just the ideological hook that divides, distracts and diffuses our focus, away from the real culprit. Back it out and take look at what's happening more fully:
(1) The German people are being whipped to work and pay-up ...
... for the betterment and everlasting spread of the Rothschild's fractional-reserve parasitic Global usury Banking Empire and war-mongering machine ...
(2) After said empire deliberately enslaved all of them with massive debts and tax burdens,
... for the betterment and everlasting spread of the Rothschild's fractional-reserve parasitic Global usury Banking Empire and war-mongering machine ...
(3) So the Frau and Brussels (non-taxpayers) send in the utterly hypocritical IMF head (a Rothschild non-taxpayer witch - literally) to rouse Greeks to pay their taxes ...
... for the betterment and everlasting spread of the Rothschild's fractional-reserve parasitic Global usury Banking Empire and war-mongering machine ...
(4) And the Greeks are balking at this impossible debt and tax slavery arrangement? .. What utter bastards!!
... thus sending the Rothschild's fractional-reserve parasitic Global usury Banking Empire and war-mongering machine into fits and convulsions ...
I can't understand why they're not up for that.
Or as Gerald Celente said this morning (paraphrasing); "You know who said we have to bail-out the banks in this situation? Do you remember who it was? ... T H E B A N K S !
http://www.trendsresearch.com/SubscriberArea/gerald-celente-brian-wilson...
We have an enemy, and it is neither Greece or Germany, nor Left and Right ideologies.
What the fuck are you on about? Germany exports (and has exported) less than 1% of their total trade to Greece. The most heavily involved banks in the periphery are French banks btw, not German. I won't be defending any cuntish German banks, but get your facts right. And what the hell is this constant cheap shot using the term "untermenschen"? Have a look at the people involved in this mess and name ONE that had anyrthing to do with having used or acted on the term of "untermenschen". Just fucking one. If not, shut the fuck up.
Ok, let's talk facts. According to Bloomberg, using Bank of International Settlements data, "German banks had amassed claims of $704 billion on Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain". How is that for a fact? Want more? Here you go:
"Let’s begin with the observation that irresponsible borrowers can’t exist without irresponsible lenders. Germany’s banks were Greece’s enablers. Thanks partly to lax regulation, German banks built up precarious exposures to Europe’s peripheral countries in the years before the crisis. By December 2009, according to the Bank for International Settlements, German banks had amassed claims of $704 billion on Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain, much more than the German banks’ aggregate capital. In other words, they lent more than they could afford.
When the European Union and the European Central Bank stepped in to bail out the struggling countries, they made it possible for German banks to bring their money home. As a result, they bailed out Germany’s banks as well as the taxpayers who might otherwise have had to support those banks if the loans weren’t repaid. Unlike much of the aid provided to Greece, the support to Germany’s banks happened automatically, as a function of the currency union’s structure.
How It WorkedHere’s how it worked. When German banks pulled money out of Greece, the other national central banks of the euro area collectively offset the outflow with loans to the Greek central bank. These loans appeared on the balance sheet of the Bundesbank, Germany’s central bank, as claims on the rest of the euro area. This mechanism, designed to keep the currency area’s accounts in balance, made it easier for the German banks to exit their positions.
Now for the tricky part: As opposed to the claims of the private banks, the Bundesbank’s claims were only partly the responsibility of Germany. If Greece reneged on its debt, the losses would be shared among all euro-area countries, according to their shareholding in the ECB. Germany’s stake would be about 28 percent. In short, over the last couple of years, much of the risk sitting on German banks’ balance sheets shifted to the taxpayers of the entire currency union.
It’s hard to quantify exactly how much Germany has benefited from its European bailout. One indicator would be the amount German banks pulled out of other euro-area countries since the crisis began. According to the BIS, they yanked $353 billion from December 2009 to the end of 2011 (the latest data available). Another would be the increase in the Bundesbank’s claims on other euro-area central banks. That amounts to 466 billion euros ($590 billion) from December 2009 through April 2012, though it would also reflect non-German depositors moving their money into German banks.
By comparison, Greece has received a total of about 340 billion euros in official loans to recapitalize its banks, replace fleeing capital, restructure its debts and help its government make ends meet. Only about 15 billion euros of that has come directly from Germany. The rest is all from the ECB, the EU and the International Monetary Fund."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-23/merkel-should-know-her-country-...
Facts are stubborn things. And as far as untermenschen go, you probably don't read the German press enough. Tell me especially what Bild has in mind when insulting the whole south while conveniently forgetting the above fact. Tell them to shut up and to stop playing on racial stereotypes if you are so sensitive, verstehst du Schatzi?
on which planet do you live?????
if you're a so long/hard working people why you need bailout and why you're sinking in your debt?
Don't buy the propaganda, there are huge financial interests at work here. Go to Greece and see how many lazy Greeks you find who retire at 41. The world is not a cartoon, you are talking 10 million people here. Get a clue!
Demanding to borrow money to pay creditors a ponzi scheme? Hmmm who else do we know that does that?
Sssshhhhh
Merkel is Satan's bitch loaded with hungry parasites.
Bitch and Euro will vanish when time is ripe.
Russia and Germany will finally get it right.
George Efstratiadis, the boss of a family-owned business in Patras,says, "Political terrorism by the masterminds of austerity won the election." "I do not expect anything other than harder strikes, bigger riots, and an unstable future.
price discovery on debts created in
a manic and lawless environment require
a jubilee to maintain peace and justice.
time is a snake that eats at its own tail.
Another gem by the sexy shirt vampire: "If the Germans are willing to keep lending to Greece, even if most goes to repay old loans..."
Yeah, guess what. The charity Greece is getting is to pay the money immediately back to the creditors. Of course, interest keeps getting added to the debt at the same time. Now that's what I call charity!
James Mackintosh of the Financial Times reported that JP Morgan produced some figures a few days ago that showed where the money provided to Greece in its much-publicised bailouts actually went. Here's what James said on twitter:
"JP Morgan estimates only €15bn of €410bn total "aid" to Greece went into economy - rest to creditors. No wonder they are cross"
You probably couldn't do worse than this guy if you had picked Britney Spears to analyze Europe. And she would also definitely wear an even sexier shirt!
mate really..... be serious....
you expect that Germany will just says: oh it's ok you dont have to pay back what you borrowed........... FUCK SERIOUSLY, what happen if you go to a bank, borrow money and dont pay it back? the bank come to you and take what you have, AND THAT'S FUCKING RIGHT
Dude, how stupid can you be? If you are a professional banker and give me a billion dollars, of course you will never get it back. You would be stupid to do that. Right? But here is the catch. You will get it back if you can convince the taxpayers to bail YOU, the banker, out, by having them give the money to me to pay you back. Then you, the professional banker will figure it's good business to give me even a trillion dollars. Get it now? Stop watching too much TV and read what really happened. Jesus.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-23/merkel-should-know-her-country-...
Educate yourself. Refuse to be a moron.
dude should shut his pie hole
Biderman you are a man of honor.
Keep busting the reality open. Major respect.
Biderman, how's your FB call doing?
He bought at the June 'bottom' and is up 22% on Fb..lool.
say NO und no finger crossink either!
This guy is all wrong all of the time. Germany is the country that has benefited most from the imposition of the Euro which has resulted in an artifically low currency and consequent export boom. Meanwhile it's banksters have been happy to fuel the bubbles in the PIIGS with their crazy lending practices. Germans therefore have the most to loose when the Euro collapses. Spain, Italy and Greece are already screwed.
No, no, no, don't say that! It's all the fault of the debtors, didn't you know? The poor German banksters who were happy to run amok for a decade and gave about a TRILLION in loans to irresponsible, lazy southerner untermenschen to win a few basis points HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY WHATSOEVER. Afterall, we know nothing German can be anything other than responsible and efficient.
Please, come back to reality and just LISTEN to Biderman. You might learn something. Gee, what are you, a commie or something?
The irresponsible are the GREEKS, they borrowed what they already know they couldnt pay back!
you got a really strange way to think AoU
Noone is innocent, but let's focus on the biggest turd in the room, shall we? That sort of MSM-provoked spins to point fingers on Germany and/or Club Med is precisely what your masters' intention is, to divide & conquer...
This whole charade has been orchestrated by the financial masterminds. The euro was a sweet promise of growth and unity in the beginning, but in the long run it's a doomsday machine for everybody involved. It doesn't really matter that the TBTF and their political serfs cooked the books and "bent the rules" a little to make it happen. Their long-term goal as alwaýs is draining the wealth of the individuals into corporate pockets.
Most of the sheeple are programmed by the bullshit media owned by the same crooks that came up with this ponzi in the first place, so down the road when the rich have to borrow evermore and the poor have to lend even more than that to keep the music playing, the lamestream will spin the shit up one more time and tell the peasants to scream for a tighter EU where an unelected body gets to rule. If the peasants don't agree with that, you get a war and a collapse of the ponzi. Guess who will finance the war (with the same wealth that was transferred from you) and show up as a savior after the war is over to "help" recreate the economy?
Same as it fuckin' was for the last 400 years (at least it's the same family trees). Now those same turdburgers are somewhat afraid 'cause they know there'll be no integration, but rather a war, and this time a larger percent of the peasants are educated enough to know who's been pulling the strings this whole time!
Do you think it's a coincidence that Switzerland has been neutral in the last 200 years and that Die Schweizergarde are the protectors of Vatican?
I fail to see how having to spend all your tax money on supporting other nations is benefitting yourself...? Germany may have done well out of the Euro to date, but the tide has turned, the longer they wait to get out, the increasingly fucked they are. FACT.
Oh dear ... the G20 meeting, i.e. begging, featuring Brussels and the IMF, looking for more dumb-money to feed to their pet blackhole, when the G20 businesses and banks are already engaging their hyperdrives to try and get their money clear of it ... well, that's going very badly:
--
--
Looks like that blackhole is just going to have to come and get it!
And it's a Too-Big-Too-Fail-Black-Hole!
TBTFBH
" ... this is NOT good Mav! ..."
G20 makes me want to vomit in technicolor.
Bet those a-holes are loaded on cheap (and crappy) Tequila and hookers (cheap also)
if biderman is saying it , the opposite will happen. precisely because he's correct.
this just makes me think it's inevitable germany will eventually cave.
perhaps the zinger will be that by the time this happens, germany's bond's will be ready to get hammered and the german's unemployment rate will be over 20%----so it won't make a difference.
"The disastrous end-result will be the same as if Germany left the Euro and first mover advantage in this case may well prove exceptionally valuable."
That may be true when one sees only economics; however, more is at stake than a currency union. The Russian bear is near at hand in the German mind. If the Euro peels apart, what of NATO? Where does the U.S. loyalty lie: with Germany or with England and Israel? Who can Germany really count on: especially as the U.S. bogs down more and more protecting oil resources and fighting Israel's wars by proxy?
It's hard to believe intelligent people charging on the greeks this huge fraud. Blaming spanish, italians, the irish people, the portoghese people... As they said (the "official" version) about the argentinean people when these same guys fucked our country as well with a similar finantial architecturem, the "convertibility", our currency tied to the USD.
Here:
"This is what Professor Vanis Varoufakis from Athens University has to say about the Troika policies (via Naked Capitalism):
"Consider what they are telling the Greek people: They are saying that Greece, to remain in the Eurozone, must,
(a) carry on borrowing from the EFSF at 4% (and thus adding to Greece’s public debt) in order to pay the ECB (which will be making a 20% profit from these payments, courtesy of the fact that it had previously bought Greece’s bonds at a 20% to 30% discount)
(b) reduce public spending by 12 billion euros in order to be ‘allowed’ to borrow for the benefit of bolstering the ECB’s profits from these transactions involving bankrupt Greece.
If the Devil wanted to guarantee that Greece is pushed out of the Eurozone, he and his evil handmaidens could not make up the above, satanic, scenario. Meanwhile, the same happens in Spain, where the government is forced to borrow money (at nearly 7%) it can hardly raise in order to shore up banks that are borrowing from the ECB (at 1%) to lend to the Spanish government (at 7%) so that the latter can… bail them out. Not even the sickest of minds could make this up!"
Indeed, you couldn’t make it up."
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100017978/gr...
This kind of bullshit is what's going on and blaming on the victims. By the way, we all know the BCE is a private bank owned by central banks owned by private banks. No Eurozone State has the power to decide inside the BCE nor the US government inside the FED.
They should exercise the power to nationalize central banks and return to their national currencies to stop this plunder.
This is off-topic but I was wondering if countries keep the wages low so that there will always be a pool of military age men desperate for employment.During peace-time (a relative term,no major wars),with no conscription in place,companies will have to compete for manpower resources.Also,people are desperate for healthcare,a paradox that they would embrace a dangerous occupation in order to be eligible for medical coverage.I know it sounds bolshie,but it gives another spin to the 1% theories.Also,the military contribution to education financial aid is a lure as well.Just odd...
No better way to solve a crisis then by going to war. Create an enemy and all attention will go to that. War gets rid off people and if you are on the winning side it will boost your economy. WWII was the best thing that ever happened to the US economy.
European leaders have some balls castigating Canada and the US for not feeding the ponzi. This thing needs an endpoint and every time they kick the can they guarantee a worse outcome.
It is beyond me why the Greeks would vote in favor of the ponzi, unless they are really so truly lacking in vision that they only see bailout money and none of the ramifications. Will Americans vote smarter when the merry-go-round stops back at Washington? We watch and wait...
How is it possible that the European Union allows the weak states to enter the international money market and borrow the money they need without help – based on their own potentials? How is it possible that the “chain” of interests of euro can let its weak “links” exposed to outside pressures? How is it possible for a “herd” with common interests to let each “ship” defend itself against the wolves, without help, and its general security threatened? How is it possible for Greece, which represents a minor 3% of the Eurozone’s economy, to be allowed to threaten the other 97% of that economy, due to the latter’s weakness?
The European Union should be the one borrowing from the national banking system – thus dealing with profiteers itself based on its overall potential – not its weak “links” alone. The latter should be under the EU’s protection and constant monitoring. They should borrow from it at a subsequent time and if they became victims of profiteering, the problem should be kept in the bosom of the euro. Domestic profiteering should bring profits to Europe’s influentials, therefore bring profits in the euro area, and not threaten it.
From the Wall Street Crash of 1929 to the Global Financial Crisis of 2007
www.eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2010/02/ten-plagues-of-pharaoh.html
Authored by Panagiotis Traianou
Of course Greece is going to play the game...the debt game...and get as much from the Euro plutocrats as possible before they default.
What a bunch of bullshit.
The bankers are happy because they can extend the fantasy and collect bonuses and commissions as long as it goes on.
When Greece defaults the bill will be passed to taxpayers and subordinated bond holders, never the banksters or politicians.
Biderman ist just another gambling analphet trying to manipulate his little gambling kids.
Most likely he is invested in German Bonds trying to make his profit from a breakup of the eurozone.
There's no logical way to make Spain, which has fewer debts than Germany and Greece equal. Not to speak of Italy, which has a large primary surplus and would be able to have a real surplus even at high levels of interest. It seems, that Germany tends to think of maximized profits also when it comes to crash in the eurozone.
buba president has recently granted an interview which clearly reflects the German positions.
http://agstock.blogspot.com.es/2012/06/weidmann-conditionality-for-spain...
You can only lie and cheat a number of times before no one trusts you anymore. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I feel sorry for the average Greek or Spaniard but the governments of southern countries have a history of lying to the EU. Defrauding deficits, borrowing easy money to pay civil servants in order to keep them voting for you, corruption of all levels etc. are daily practices. If you give unlimited bailout then nothing will change. It is the current political and financial class in these countries that needs to be removed and the young need to rebuild the country that their previous generations f*cked up.
Biderman's message : bring on the world crisis of financial asymmetric mismanagement and malinvestment. We will learn more from its resolution in dire pain NOW before its too late, than in slow death by a thousand cuts!
Greeks are being a bunch of douchenozzles and biederman should stfu you can see how this is effect USD etc Daily Market Review
Another Euro bailout
http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=5777