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Biderman & Santschi On Europe's Delusions And Money-Printing Illusions

Tyler Durden's picture




 

"People need to stop expecting simple solutions" is how David Santschi succinctly describes to Charles Biderman the delusion that so many European leaders (and seemingly US and European investors) perceive our world. The prevalence of lying and delusion in Europe is what worries the TrimTabs' chaps the most - especially since in a Fiat money system (where money is backed by nothing but confidence) - with the people running the system lying on a grand scale, the chance of systemic failure are very high. He is careful to point out that this is not just a European issue, we in the US are just as delusional, but the European issues are simply more acute. Simply put, "losses have to be recognized honestly" and Biderman's bro' asks rhetorically "why on earth are we five years on still trying to bailout bondholders and banks so they don't lose money on their crappy debt - it's crazy." The two gentlemen of the Bay Area then describe why money-printing does not solve the problem as Europe faces solvency, not liquidity, problems (detailing exactly our thoughts on the fact that so many of the supposed solutions have/will fail and "there aren't any painless solutions to a debt problem". Avoiding all EUR-exposure, holding USD cash/TSYs short-term, and gold as a long-term insurance cover is how they suggest one is positioned. While the tone is less 'ranty', the content is just as pithy - six minutes well-spent for a summary of why Europe's (and the US) problems are far from over - no matter how much hope is placed in CB largesse.

 

 

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Wed, 05/30/2012 - 21:59 | 2478009 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

If you ain't part of the solution, you're part of the delusion. 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:14 | 2478058 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

...and a little child (Santschi) shall lead them... He may look like he's 12, but truer words have not been spoken - out of the mouths of babes...

Good stuff...

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:52 | 2478157 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

"People need to stop expecting simple solutions."

Hm. And just a few hours earlier on this very site, I read (Guest Post: "Big Idea Solution": Radically Lower The Cost Basis Of The Entire Economy), inter alia: "Complexity is the subterfuge the Status Quo uses to erect simulacra "reforms" while further consolidating their power behind the artificial moat of complexity."

Me, I'm a simple guy. I like simple answers to complex problems. I have solved a number of complex problems with simple answers (in fact, I'm not sure I'm capable of anything but simple answers).

But that's me.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:01 | 2478190 Real Money Wins
Real Money Wins's picture

It's time to go to the doctor to get a refill of "Delusional"

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:35 | 2478285 MuppetMaster
MuppetMaster's picture

I'll bet someone right now, that in 15 years, there will be a drug name, that is phonetically similar to delusional, and that kids will be crushing it up and snorting it in backroom dormatories all over the USSA... any takers?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:46 | 2478303 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Yep....this is all about the delusional insanity of 'faith in money' (rather than God) leading to a catastrophic upset.  We are now in a Puetz eclipse crash window, although this most often proves irrelevant:

http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2012/05/puetz-eclipse-crash-window-...

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 00:11 | 2478353 MuppetMaster
MuppetMaster's picture

But you forget!  We are heavily oversold.  Indicators show that we are massively oversold, to a level that 10/10 indicates at least a 50% retracement of the previous day's losses.  MOREOVER, its May 31st, and what happens every close of the month?  Gotta post them numbers bro!  Up day tomorrow, or at least ending in an up day, if we experience an even more oversold moment throughout the day tomorrow.  I'd bet 50k on it.  lol.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 00:23 | 2478364 mcguire
mcguire's picture

and how often does a peutz eclipse crash window coincide with a bildeberg meeting??

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 00:58 | 2478414 Michael
Michael's picture

Video;

Complete and Total Worldwide Economic Collapse 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI8dfFN7H1w

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 03:34 | 2478514 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

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 Two Great new Drugs for the New World Citizen!!! Brought to you by the awsome partnership of TBTF & Big Pharma.

Side effects too numerous to list...Don't worry take your Deluzhinal & Doluzitol, Kramer 1hr Primetime Facebook special on at 7....and Idol starts at 8. 

 All is Great in the World ;-)

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 00:15 | 2478357 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

DO you mean simple things like currency swaps and back-door (sorry Greece) loans for recapitalization, and all's good?

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 00:51 | 2478405 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

No. I'm not that smart.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 01:47 | 2478458 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

If you ain't part of the solution, you're part of the delusion.

And the delusion is on people like Biderman, embracing the delusion that they're trying to fix the system and just screwing up.

Nobody is screwing up.  They have no desire to fix the system.  All the bungling keystone cop nonsense we see from them is just a cover story for what really is a massive well-planned looting spree.

The delusion is believing their "we're trying to fix it" nonsense, and not seeing what they're really doing.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 02:14 | 2478477 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

If you don't accept the delusion you will end up being put in seclusion.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:01 | 2478015 AetosAeros
AetosAeros's picture

The reason it's more acute for the Europeans is each of the representative 'states', unlike the USA, has it's own military, borders-with guards, language's, and national identities-- so they each pore over each others books to yell loudly to the other 'States' who is fucking everyone else with monetary mismanagement and cooked books; all while the head of the joint puts them all to shame.

 

Here in the states, we just get fucked and change the channel.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:01 | 2478017 lordbyroniv
lordbyroniv's picture

But in a fiat currency regime you can always generate positive levels of inflation- no?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:26 | 2478101 Matt
Matt's picture

The problem is if people lose confidence in the system, this can cause a sudden shock one way or the other:

if everybody runs to the ATM and pulls out the cash, this is massively deflationary.

If everybody starts spending money as fast as they can, inflation can spiral out of control.

fiat + fractional reserve = a confidence game. no confidence, no more game.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 06:55 | 2478641 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

No a Fiat regime cannot create inflation at will

Bubble Ben prints $3 Trillion Benny Bucks (inflation) but $10 Trillion gets wiped off stocks, property and debt implodes (deflation)

Benny cannot print fast enough to keep the bubble/s inflated

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:03 | 2478019 JackT
JackT's picture

Binderman is looking more tired and concerned each day. I guess after a while this shit just isn't funny or entertaining anymore. Some seriousness is about to be laid down.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 02:17 | 2478480 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

How much shit can one fan take before breaking?

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 07:25 | 2478666 Element
Element's picture

Depends what sort of light aircraft it's attached to, and who you pissed off.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:03 | 2478024 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I love both of these " Statisticians".  i CAN'T WAIT TO READ THE COMMENTS! 

 Parden the "Android" Smart Phone.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:10 | 2478043 janus
janus's picture

C Biderman: one of the first, still one of the best.

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:11 | 2478047 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Biderman hired this guy to make himself look good. Physically.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:13 | 2478052 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Obama, Merkel, Hollande, and Monti videoconference on urgency of ending Syrian violence (Haaretz)

Oh boy.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:23 | 2478084 AetosAeros
AetosAeros's picture

Yeah, must have got their marching orders from the banks who are about to hit the ropes hard. Need another war to increase revenues and wipe away some debt while the public worries about those awful Syrians who are only doing what every other country has done- had a revolution that everyone else just needs to keep their fucking noses out of until its over.

 

Of course that won't happen, we'll form a coalition without UN approval, then go in and stir up the Russian hornet nest (I seem to recall reading on more than one occassion the Russians saying "let them figure it out, but if you go in, this WILL get ugly, possibly nuclear" or something to that effect) and then Israel get's it war with Iran, courtesy of US body bags, the bankers play both sides of the fence, the eugenic fucks get less traffic and some new wonders to gape at (behind lead shielded glass), and you and I get herded if we aren't already out of Dodge when the .40 calibre hollow points start flying.

 

Yep, sounds about par for the course.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:28 | 2478268 fnord88
fnord88's picture

Bilderberg 2012 on as we speek. The "leaders" of the world get to find out who they are going to war with next.....

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 05:03 | 2478542 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Actually it's a foreign sponsored insurgency.

Basically you can say our 'interests' have been invading Syria for over a year now.  Well I shouldn't say OUR interests, the interests of our 'motherland' that we've allied ourselves with in our oh so 'special relationship', coupled with various kingdoms that were created by the 'motherland'.  

The propaganda is flying fast and furious now. Using old Iraq photos as 'evidence' of Assad's massacres.  Interviewing kids of SNC members about atrocities.  Think if Saddam put on Baghdad Bob's son to talk at the beginning of the Iraq war.

Any day now they'll cook up the propaganda randomizer and give us box cutters and women's genitalia and try to convince us going in will also be about protecting 'women's rights' by not allowing labia's to be cut off.   

There's nothing finer than a R2P fascist propaganda one liner.

The media don't ever tell all the terrorist shit like bombings and assassinations against top level officials going on.  They continually blame atrocities OF the terrorists on Assad.   

The terrorists are killing the Syrians.  No doubt there is some collateral damage from Syria on Syrians, but when you're top guys are dropping like flies, I'm sure the pressure is on them to engage in more risky collateral damage causing style.  I wouldn't even be surprised if some are linking up with the foreigners and getting killed as well. 

Humanitarian Intervention is just a pretext for a more tangible invasion.  They will invade to be humanitarian in order to kill more people.

 

But you can't fake a tank blast when the deaths are caused by stab wounds and gunshots to the head.  Tank blasts cause you know, limb losses.  Not one limb lost in the supposed 'tank blast' massacre recently.

But look at all the bullshit, how we need to make it 'a fair fight' for the foreign terrorists to overthrow a gov't.   All the bullshit ideology they are trying to create/use to create a situation that what we are doing is legitimate.  They are 'educating' us by making up bullshit and we all know that any ideology created and taught to us is legitimate.

Oh they're even getting Iran to help fight the terrorists and helping Assad maintain control and they're acting like this is 'out of bounds'.  Well no shit sherlock.  They know perfectly well they're next.   Besides if the West is bringing in THEIR guys, what do you think Syria is going to do to protect themselves? Pot meet kettle.  Though only one side is the instigator.

They created a 'cease fire' that Assad had to adhere to, then unleashed the terrorists.  The only side that adhered at all to the 'ceasefire' was Assad.  They set him up in a no win situation to look bad.

Isn't it quaint that we fight a worldwide war on terror including here at home involving a bunch of guys we created, and then we use that creation, and others like them to invade another country?  Then we dare say it is a civil war and that Assad is slaughtering his own people?

No, as much of a bastard Assad is, they are actually fighting off an invasion, of terrorists, that the west is sponsoring.

That's right folks, state sponsor of terrorism by a country that is supposed to be fighting terrorism and taking all our rights away in order to fight it.

The media is playing the usual idiot whore about it all.  Deaf, dumb, blind, and fucking stupid and wholly complicit with crimes.   Hey assholes, Syria is dying because the idiot media is lying about it all.  Buy hey they can play dumb and pretend that they are against the killing of Syrians, when in fact the terrorists they are portraying as the 'opposition' are the terrorists.  

The Syrian National Council is a london mouthpiece.  Blair is advising Obama about everything, like he did Bush before Iraq, even about NerO's re-election.  The crazy fucktard even thinks he has a shot to re-enter Britain's political arena. 

Yes this very easily could break out into nuclear war.  Which of course is what some in the 'West' really want. 

Romney is pressuring Obama about being warmonger (even though he already has proven he is one), and you know NerObama like Marty McFly can't be called chicken. 

Glass-Steagall

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:19 | 2478072 PLove
PLove's picture

Goddayum propaganda is delusional.

What's left for Rabble TV?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:22 | 2478083 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Nice call on Fadebook Biderman. Antyone keeping track of these horrible calls?

Yeah, and the US has 'decoupled' from Europe. What bullshit.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:25 | 2478094 veyron
veyron's picture

He is probably talking about the FUCKBOOK ipo (BATS:FUCK) coming out December 21 2012

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:25 | 2478096 max2205
max2205's picture

The elite need a disaster beyond comprehension to side step the collapse that's on the way.

Popcorn ready and CNN on.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:49 | 2478314 XitSam
XitSam's picture

About due for a big natural disaster. My money's on a Icelandic of Italian volcano really going.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:29 | 2478107 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

with the people running the system lying on a grand scale, the chance of systemic failure are very high

********

Systemic failure was recognized back in 01 when they opened the credit spigots-

Two indicators seen it-

Those that seen it are in the money-daily/weekly/monthly price gyrations mean nothing-

http://bit.ly/9SzF4c

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/WTP30A28

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:32 | 2478115 longjohnshorts
longjohnshorts's picture

Biderman = Big Windbag. Have met him several times. He says stuff that goes down well on ZH, but basically he's a pompous ass. His frequent presence here doesn't serve ZH well.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 12:08 | 2479866 tamboo
tamboo's picture

an egotistical jew?!? say it aint so!!!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:34 | 2478119 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Mark to market. 

Mandatory haircuts and allow bankruptcy and failure.

Restructure.

Spend within your means. Stop promising everything to everyone. Recognize that it is a finite world and that governments have finite resources.

Unfortunately, it won't happen. 

Checkmate.

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:41 | 2478139 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Love the look on Biderman's face (@ 1:30) when he asks "why can't the Europeans print money , like the fed, and make ther problems go away like ours have?"

Priceless !!!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:42 | 2478143 brodix
brodix's picture

Of course money is backed by confidence!!!! That's because it's a contract, not a commodity!!!!

Idiots.

http://www.exterminatingangel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view...

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:08 | 2478208 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Of course money is backed by confidence!!!! That's because it's a contract, not a commodity!!!!

************

Money is backed by the powers of government to tax-

Money is a commodity like any other commodity and as Mises said-the most useful commodity-

An oil company sells you gas for your dollars-

You sell your dollars to the oil company for gas-

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 02:05 | 2478470 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

A commodity that can be printed on a printing press isn't a real commodity.

Fiat currency is a derivative that has legal tender status.   We trade a derivative for gas, groceries, etc.

It's like selecting some company's stock and giving it legal tender status.

 

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 09:20 | 2478975 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

A commodity that can be printed on a printing press isn't a real commodity.

************

If the money is accepted in exchange for goods or service--it is a commodity-

The fact that it can be debased at will does not change its role as a commodity until it is no longer accepted-which is where we're eventually headed-

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 22:57 | 2478179 essence
essence's picture

The article posts the rhetorical question

"why on earth are we five years on still trying to bailout bondholders and banks so they don't lose money on their crappy debt".

We all know the answer even though some are hesitant to admit it.

The reason is that the big banks OWN the respective governments. They've bough off the Presidents/Prime Ministers and all down the line. I'm talking congressmen/ministers of Parliament,judges,regulators ... the whole gamut.

Enough of this facade where we pretend there isn't this elephant in the room   .... we know the truth!


Thu, 05/31/2012 - 00:09 | 2478344 Stackers
Stackers's picture

That is only partly the answer. The other half of the answer is that if all those banks had to realize those loss every major bank on the planet would go bankrupt, which would destroy the global credit markets and that would bring the global economy to a screeching halt and destroy the consumerism status quo. Our entire way of existing depends on functioning global credit markets, they will take any measure necessary to "save" them

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 00:37 | 2478384 mcguire
mcguire's picture

another way to articulate the answer:

"By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.  By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some.  The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth.  Those to whom the system brings windfalls . . . become 'profiteers', who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished not less than the proletariat.  As the inflation proceeds . . . all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless." - j m keynes

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 07:53 | 2478698 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Does not mean that global credit markets will be dead forever.  If the global credit markets crater, there will be short term chaos, but then we will have the BIG RESET.  After a period of chaos, commerce will figure out a way to pick up the pieces and restart.  Most likely not in a way that the current winners like, but it will restart in some fashion.  The sun will rise, the hard assets will still be around, and people will still want to eat, raise their children, and move on.  

So bring it on. The existing broken, dysfunctional system will be swept aside sooner or later anyway.  It mathmatically can't continue as is.  "Our entire way of existing" is a pretty crappy existence for a lot of people.  Hoping whatever evolves after the collapse is better.  And the pain of living through the collapse is not unbearable.  

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 10:05 | 2479189 Stackers
Stackers's picture

It's the level of "chaos" in the short term that has everyone worried. Most people dont get this part of it. what happens if tomorrow everyone and I mean everyone's credit cards stopped working ? What happens when the line of credit trucking and airline companies use to buy fuel is just GONE ? there is only a 2-3 day supply of fuel and food in the stores. This "short term" better be pretty damn short or we are in for one HELL of a ride. Chaos is probably the mildest outcome we can expect. I agree we need a giant "reset", but I think people underestimate the "short term chaos" levels that are possible through the transition.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:11 | 2478222 realtick
realtick's picture

The entire system IS going to implode - the bailouts of banks and bondholders are merely a part of the delusion that it won't.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:40 | 2478292 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i have a dim recollection of people saying exactly these same points lastSummer, when the debt ceiling vote was approaching

almost word-for-word

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:46 | 2478302 realtick
realtick's picture

And they were right - look at the NYSE:

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$NYA&p=W&b=5&g=0&id=p69810056528

That broad index is more reflective of reality than the Dow 30, S&P 500 or NASDAQ.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 23:46 | 2478306 q99x2
q99x2's picture

They are happy making money. But no solution without trouble. When trouble hits they will start to arrest the banksters. I think they will be forced to do at least that.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 01:05 | 2478427 cnhedge2
cnhedge2's picture

Euro Area Debt: The Path to Redemption
http://www.cnhedge.com/thread-5624-1-1.html

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 02:33 | 2478488 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

No worries peeps, their plan to loot all your wealth is going along just fine.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 02:59 | 2478506 RECISION
RECISION's picture

"People need to stop expecting simple solutions"

Wrong - the solutions are very simple.

The problem is that no-one likes them.

People need to stop expecting easy/cheap/painless solutions...

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 03:42 | 2478520 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

Agree...everyone knows the solution is bankruptcy - no one has the stomach to take their medicine

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 12:07 | 2479857 tamboo
tamboo's picture

there's a reason why most folks dont know what a jubilee is.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 03:48 | 2478522 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

Earlier there was a can to kick down the road for the Fed

Then there came more cans for ECB to kick down the road.

The Financial system is now , acting similar to Ben's helicopter, dropping as many cans as possible.

The Fed and the ECB are now being overwhelmed by the number of cans to kick.

I guess it's time for them to slip and fracture their legs.These cans are set to explode soon if not kicked out of sight. And many are being missed. It's a no win situation now.

All the Football leagues ( Read all the Govts) around the world are incapable of kicking the innumerable number of cans lying all over it.

It's about time the system starts to collapse.

 

 

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 03:52 | 2478524 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

US citizens writing and speaking on delusion, propaganda, distorted reality perception etc are a special brand as they expose it in an attempt to substitute their own proapaganda bits.

US citizen fiat money is not based on confidence.
US citizens are not that dumb that they think they can be considered trustworthy, having from very start broken most of their promises, principles and the rest.

US citizen money is based on coercion, leading to assess the capability one has to force another to accept the fiat as the medium to trade another's wealth.

Therefore, a crisis in fiat, the systemic failure can happen two ways:
the coercer loses one coercer's capabilities.
the coerced has nothing left to trade.

For example, save a few world areas, the US of A has the capability to coerce anyone to accept USD against goods etc

What is showing now but really only the ripples of the forecoming shocks is the lack of capability by the coerced to match US citizen demand. The coerced while yielding tremendously no longer yield enough.

EMU, the question is who are they able to coerce? Being answered by mostly certain members of the EMU etc...

USD has a long life to live.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 04:08 | 2478531 Thoresen
Thoresen's picture

Last night watched Krugman being interviewed by Paxman on UK Newsnight. Paxman kept deferring to him because he was a Nobel economist, but fortunately the others on the piece disagreed with Krugman.

He's a Keynsian who thinks that printing and inflation will solve the european problem. He is obviously wrong, but main stream media accepts what he says. Seem to recall that Nassim Taleb has criticised the Swedish Nobel Economics people for giving out prizes to economists who were actually very wrong!

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 10:09 | 2479237 Stackers
Stackers's picture

They hand out "Peace" prizes to thugs, terrorist and leaders who assassinate their own citizens. This surprises you ? Most of the Nobel Awards are a joke.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 06:33 | 2478626 fresno dan
fresno dan's picture

Why does this delusion go on?  Because most want it to.

Because the truth is that taxes have to DOUBLE for everyone to come even close to paying for the resources governments have committed to spend on us OR for banks.  Governments borrow the money, and everybody pretends it will be paid back.  The moderately intelligent understand that it can't be paid back.  They devise schemes all involving little colored pieces of paper (currency), and printing them, or electronically crediting bankrupt banks.   But little pieces of colored paper are not wealth, not resources, no prosperity.  At some point, income and expenditure in real terms will come into balance....and that will be a bitch. 

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 06:59 | 2478642 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

"People need to stop expecting simple solutions" says David Santschi 

there is a simple solution David, and it takes out the corrupt village idiots (politicians) we expect to do our bidding for us (keep dreaming on that one!)

Stop Paying Your Taxes

Zero Tax = Zero Govt = Free Market Solutions

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!