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Bifurcated Euro Begins As AAA-Only 'Elite'-Bond Issuance Considered
As the hopes of an IMF bazooka fades, Market News is reporting that the ever-ready-to-print-a-story European newspaper Die Welt says Germany and the other 5 AAA-rated nations of Europe are discussing jointly issuing 'Elite' bonds. We assume the borrowings could be used to fund the less-well-rated nations and avoid a true Euro-bond joint-and-several issuance which Merkel and other have been so opposed to. For now, it is clear that the 'Have's and the 'Have-Not's are becoming increasingly divided and this - much like our earlier discussion of the recap section of the EFSF draft - seems to be further from a fiscally united Europe and any inevitable endgame. We wonder what will happen when Austria gets downgraded? It certainly seems that the much-ridiculed ratings agencies are now playing an even more important role and we can only assume that the recent disappintments in the better-rated sovereign auctions were 'transient' and 'temporary'.
It is increasingly clear that Europe is bifurcating in many ways - High-grade and everyone else - and it appears the preparation is beginning.
From Market News:
FRANKFURT (MNI) – The German government and five other Eurozone member states with a triple A credit rating are considering issuing bonds together, German daily Die Welt reported Monday, citing unnamed highly placed EU officials.
The paper said that the money raised by the bonds would finance the debts not only of the six AAA-rated countries — Germany, France, Finland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Austria — but also help provide financial assistance, under strict conditions, for Italy and Spain.
The goal of the new bonds would be to stabilize the situation of the AAA countries and “erect a credible firewall that calms the financial markets,” the paper said.
The German Finance Agency would play a major role in the sale of the bonds, which would carry an interest rate of 2% to 2.5%, the paper said.
Since the bonds would not be “Eurobonds” jointly issued by all 17 Eurozone member states, they are being called “Elite bonds” or “Triple A bonds” for working purposes, Die Welt reported.
One more thought...Is Germany learning from its Chinese trade partners and looking to take on the vendor-financing mercantilist position among its European partners - if so, this would hardly help the imbalances that are among the causes of the problems we now stand in.
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A bond we can all have faith in. Who's buying?
I'm an atheist. I will, however, buy some of their gold for some freshly printed FRN's.
Say what you will.
But you will see a Euro-bond soon.
These bankers have a lot of power.
What God wants, God gets.
http://fucklloydblankfein.blogspot.com
Rumor has it, the Greys are going to lend a hundred trillion Alpha Centauri Credits backed by element 115 using the Earth's DNA as genetic collateral. The mother-ship should warp in and beam it down anytime now.
but, they want all the gold
Sarkozy to provide collateral and consummate the deal..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8lrfRwNlfs
We interrupt your regularly scheduled programming to bring you the following 'It's On Like Donkey Kong' breaking news:
11-28 1:45: WSJ writes: "Inner Workings of Market Readied for Euro Breakup"
It's true...but only after after a decade or two of in depth anal probes - you know, to check our credit worthiness.
Indeed he does. And the "man behind the curtain" is many things, but God is not one of them. This is clearly a perpetuation of the mercantilist position to the extent that that's even possible. "Taking your toys and going home" isn't that simple however. There are "geo-political issues" which i might add probably caused this mess in the first place. The first one that stands out is "how does not solving the mess solve the mess?" The metric is brutally simple: in the USA the politicians bailed out Wall Street to their permanent political detriment. Again we find ourselves asking "and yet Germany can't find a way to stop throwing Greece under the bus"? (and stop phucking with my computer tom keene--as well as that other stuff you keep doing, too. one good night sleep. how 'bout we start with that?)
I'm definitely not happy about it! These f*cking Eurobonds will be forced down our throats, just like the rest of the EUSSR.
If one looks at the history of the EU, then you see that everything always started off in a small number of countries (the BeNeLux) doing something sensible and it then morphs into the European Economic Community (with more corrupt members) and then into the EU.
The next move is obviously a real EUSSR (a fiscal and political union), and the jumping board will be the "AAA Eurobonds" of the stronger core countries, just like the BeNeLux formed the basis of the current mess we're in.
That's how the (ex?) communist Barroso wants to re-shape the European political landscape in a fashion that would make Fieldmarshal Tito blush.
In the mean time, I'll just continue buying Gold (holkding up it's value quite nicely in Euro's!) so I can f*ck off out of the EUSSR when the real shit will hit the fan.
That's the truth Truth!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ws7I18g6K0
When they revert to their native currency, printed in German over Beethoven's head.............
"In God We Trust. Everyone else pay in Deutsche Marks."
OFF TOPIC: When the Fed buys MBS from banks at par, because the banks can't swallow the losses, what happens to the losses that inevitably happen on the Fed's balance sheet? Do they just tell the Treasury they will print the difference up?
lol! Why would the FED, who lists their gold at $42.50/oz, list MBS at anything less than what they choose to value them at? Also they dont answer to the treasurey, its the other way around.
Yes
Line item: "Other"
They don't have to tell Timmy anything ...except "fuck off" perhaps.
Fed doesn't have to report to anyone, so they can carry worthless assets on their books at any value they wish. It's called mark-to-skittle-shitting-unicorn-myth accounting.
But for the record Ben did tell Timmy IF he decides to mark some of the worthless crap on his Fed balance sheet to something anywhere aprroaching reality resulting in a loss, Timmy gets to eat it ...meaning taxpayers get to eat it ...which really doesn't mean anything since none of the $15,000 billion national debt will ever be paid off, rolled over yes, paid off no.
Very nice.
I like both the substance and tone of your response.
+1
Here's a message for all politicians, sell-side analysts, permabulls, and quite unfortunately, general citizens: you are fucked on the one-way liquidation street.
When even Germany has problems getting its own bonds away, who indeed is going to buy? WHy doesn't Germany just go it alone and charge, say, 3% spread to others? Mercantilist financier? Why not. I can't see that the US would do any favours to its partners in NAFTA under similar circumstances and 3% spread is far better than they can get alone.
because Spain is too big to fail. Of course "failing Italy" is beyond sinful as well...but "why should Wall Street ever be interested in that God thing?" Hmmm. Let me see..."he built every City in Europe" seems like a good start. How 'bout the art work you have hanging on your wall? Or the colors of the cloth you wear to work? Or the music that "draws you in"? Or the....
Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks Undisclosed $13B
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-28/secret-fed-loans-undisclosed-to-congress-gave-banks-13-billion-in-income.html
Bernank actually stole 7.7 trillion in U.S. taxpayer milk money, and loaned it the banks for essentially nothing in interest, and the 13 billion is the best the incompetent FUBAR banks could do in terms of profit on that free money.
Hell, I could've easily returned 10 times that spread, and I'm not doing "God's work," and therefore not blessed as the Vampire Squid is.
did their "stocks" get a "pop" on this news? No? Gee..."perhaps if they'd disclosed it properly." Oh, well. Welcome to Strangelovian Finance. How did the line go "we've built a bomb that will destroy the world as the ultimate deterrent. But we didn't tell anybody about it."...."YOU PHUCKING IDIOTS!" cue to Patsy Cline: "we'll meet again, don't know where! don't know when!" Apparently Wall Street didn't get the memo.
I think America should merge with Europe. Then we can have one currency called, The Ameuro. That way both our currencies will finally be fucked together in a more perfect union.
It's cool - Everyone will buy EU Elite bonds - just like everyone buys US Treasury Bonds - -wow - isn't it cool that the Europeans are now learning from the US how to print fiat to extend and pretend and pump stocks up so that the world doesn't collapse from sticking it to the banksters... Timmie Boy is in extacy at the prospect.
AAA, like youth, is fleeting.
FU is the new AAA.
Bifornication, Bitchez!
Elite bombs.
That's what I was thinking. Weren't mortgage CDO's AAA?
So were Bear Stearns and Lehmann's.........
They meant E-light (Europe Light)
I wonder what language they have in their constitutions that would allow for extranational financial integration of this sort... They follow the rule of their own constitutions right? ...Right?
Constimipations are like bonds, stocks and fiat...paper promises.
Not like they will actually create it, these are just news stories designed to suck more money into this financial abyss known as "the euro".
Politicians and bankers talking out their asses, again.
phew... disaster averted.
Reports Of IMF Package For Italy Not Credible - International Financial Officials
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111127-706560.html
Shhhhh!
We've moved on to 'Elite Bonds' to keep the facade from crumbling.
Man that got shot down fast. They need to have another meeting and get on the same page again.
Here are my guesses as to how the meetings play out behind closed doors.
Merkel: Umm, no printing! Remember the Weimar government?
Sarkozy: Netanyahu is a liar!
Geithner: Need some money? We can print it!
Merkel: No printing!
Obama: Can someone help my with my capri sun? I cant get the straw in.
Bernanke: Jackson Hole is cold this time of the year.
Monti: here is what we will do. We will tell them that the IMF is going to bail Italy out and this will inject the confidence needed into the bonds market and by the time they realize they have been duped, we will of kicked the can down the road.
Obama: Crap, I just got capri sun all over my new suit! This is the republicans fault! Had they enacted my bill to replace these plastic capri sun straws with enviromentally friendly ones, I would have a clean suit!
Bernanke: FOLKS, back to the economic issues. We have to end this meeting, I have to catch a helicopter! The solution is easy people, there isn't one! We just keep doing what we have been doing for the last century. Lie to everyone!
Obama: Oh, thats easy. Look, it got me elected!
Monti: OK, so I'm getting bailed out but I'm not really right? Just one big lie to keep the machine running..
Bernanke: You catch on fast!
Monti: I am a banker you know.
Sarkozy: Netanyahu is a liar!
Obama: It's not my fault, I'll blame congress for not passing more printing measures!
LOL
Jackson's hole is cold this time of year.
all the pomp and circumstance...let em fail and we can move on.
Luxembourg? They have the gdp of a gnat.
Heeeyyy ... It's equivalent to that of South Dakota. That should be enough to bail out France, Italy and Spain, right? Right? Riiiiiight.
Who cares about scale. It's all about GDP per cap nowadays. Just jump on the triple-A bandwagon.
So it's a bailout for the bailouters...by now isn't everyone running out of buckets?
My God - somebody turned on the lights. The cockroaches are scrambling for the exits. Get the Raid!
For fuck sake...just STOP this bullshit already. Seriously....every day is some new magic potion? Every day?!
Hmm, wonder what happens when a situation appears untenable between the "elites" and the "not so elites"? Eat the debt, or else?
Who would have ever thought the death spiral would be a slow motion train wreck!
This is the slowest motion trainwreck in the history of slow motion trainwrecks.
Well at least it's an elite train wreck.
If all the EU countries get downgraded below BBB does that make it EuroTrash?
The worst part of any trainwreck is the moment of impact.
Very painful.
At least twice a day. Otherwise the teeth begin to look yellow....
The BS of the day is the ZeroHedge delight!
Your Fortune Cookie from tonight's dinner:
"He who buys Euro anything
is Yuan short pussy"
I keep wondering who the hell is stupid enough to still believe anything they say? And how come markets shoot green no matter how many times the same lie has been recycled? With gullibility like this, "The boy who cried wolf story" would in fact be "The neverending story"
Bifurcated and Bifuckated.
So let me get this straight...the "good" countries sell bonds to pay for "bad" countries? And the "bad" countries will just go along with whatever the "good" countries will want? This is so freaking stupid.
Yes, I think I'll tell my drunken unkle I'm gonna pay for his rent just this one more time, while he gets a prostitute every weekend, on MY property.
You would if you pledged the unpaid rent as receivables to someone else...
The problem is everyone knows my unkle.
Is he Greek or Italian? Everyone knows them too....
I'm thinking they want more than just a sustained friendship.
Fucking governments blatantly covering for banks with the poeple's money.
It seems there is no end to their cockiemaina schemes to try and keep it going. Wonder how long this new one will last?
About to the end of the 24-hour news cycle.
The "Cycle" continues.
It's the "News" portion stopped.
So how's that Dexia thing coming along, FrAAAnce?
The funny thing about Moral Hazard and its unintended consequences is as we all wait for the "big bailout", trade on every rumor, every potential rescue, the real solutions continue to evade all of us. The hard choices, hardly anyone ever recommends, because of the pain involved. Bailout is the solution. Amazing that the solution to solvency issues in a capitalistic society are BAILOUT.
The volitality, worst september in 20 year, best october in 30 years, WORST Thanksgiving week EVER, is killing market participants. Correlations are moving closer to 1 every day, and everyone just runs from one side of the boat to the other. One day it is just going to inadvertently tip over.
We are waiting daily for this to happen . . . . .
But it never seems to occur.
Curious, no?
Daily? Why the fuck do people think it will happen "suddenly"? It started a while ago, it will end a while from now, all the time deteriorating. See the big picture.
This bothers me too, Lizzy! Though it is part of TPTB's plan -- to confuse us with information overload (something that TD is reeeeally good at!) until they can shut the farm gate and turn on the meat grinder -- we do need to start applying brainpower and pressure to actual solutions ... rather than just placing bets on how much longer the plate will keep spinning, or shouting from the bleachers that the plate-spinner is a fuckwit!
My preferred solution is for both the US and EZ states to secede back from their respective criminal syndicates and begin issuing local currencies to their respective citizens, after haircutting whatever debts each has been proportionally saddled with by the central planners.
If only one withdraws, the banksters will send in the marines. But if a small, or greater, number do it at the same time, WE will divide and conquer THEM!
They have spent 250 years slowly herding us all into these super-states - both in Europe and in the US - yet we could revert back to national and cultural freedom in a very short period. Asia isn't going to attack anybody, and the camel-herders couldn't mount an offensive across the Mediterranean, let alone the Atlantic!
And just tonight, the WorldWide BlowHorn [CNBC World] was touting the story that greater fiscal integration was the reason the markets were up. Just a couple hours ago, in fact.
Stand back, folks. No one is going to believe a single word coming out of this Euro trash banker crowd. Prepare to watch further "good news" ignored, no matter what it is...as the gig is up.
"Stand back, folks. No one is going to believe a single word coming out of this Euro trash banker crowd."
But they do, every day.
The masses buy this shit every single day.
Nothing you can do to stop them.
Crissmode,
Please, show me a single member of your 'masses' that even has an active account to buy this 'shit' everyday.
There is nothing to stop om
They are stopping themselves. If you even bothered to read my short post, you would have gotten that drift.
The credibility of the global financial system is nil. Have you been paying attention to the market, the world wide market for bonds?
And please post apathy on someone else's comments, thank you.
Well, I have the answer, at least for tonight. I am going to bed.
Good Night, or should I say Gute Nacht.
'Elite' has a vague stripclub sort of ring...
Would "Elite - AAA" be stripper car insurance? I think I would file a claim!
Sounds like Derivative style - reminicent of 2008 ruse to make a bad investment masquerade as AAA.
Sarkozy and Merkel are consulting GS for innovative solutions. Afterall, look at what GS did for Greece.
And the futures just keep on truckin'. You know...cause it's all legit and shit.
You either have positions that can stand a few days of pain or not. We're going way, way down. The path is undetermined.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japan-warns-of-more-forex-intervention-report-2011-11-27?link=MW_latest_news
The LAFFiNG countries? Oh, come ON.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-28/secret-fed-loans-undisclosed-to-congress-gave-banks-13-billion-in-income.html
Your avatar looks like the tinman (seated) and the cowardly lion (standing) while pointing at a peice of paper at the table. You can have my username if you want. send me a PM. I have probably learned as much as I can here by posting and are dragging the comments down.
LET IT HAPPEN!!!! (bk)
Stop this bull shit. You are making it worse.
Shit...I would lose money but I want to see this end.
If they cannot sell these elite bonds, they will just monetise them. That way they will enforce discipline on the weaker states. There will be severe austerity in the PIIGS.
Severe strikes and rioting too.
Tyler,
Is not this rumor, perhaps, a trial baloon for a new 'old Europe' European Union that worked so well before the admission of all the small and culturally problematic states?
The campaign of inflammatory propaganda actually, imo, would have had little affect on this small group of nations that comprise nearly all of the EU's productive force. Of course, it is different now because of all of the 'insurance' that has been underwritten vis a vis the derivatives invented by the banks and ratings agency.
Know nothing about this---just a thought that occurred om
Can these countries hold onto their ratings until the time of issuance?
Watch their bond yields go up after EU markets open...
Well, if they're going to do a AAA-only bond issuance, they had better hurry.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45458166
Next two week or hours?
The one thing I don't get, is that this is by design... that much we know. We know the plan. So why is it a "stick save and a beauty" every day..? Are they that clueless that they still think no one knows what the ultimate goal is??
btw.. do they really think the masses, when finally informed, are going to go on their merry way with an "awe..shucks" mentalitiy?? I don't see that happening. I mean, when the cops start to realize what's been done...are they going to side with the m'fing elitists, or keep killing people in the streets??? Then again, I guess if the masses aren't clued in and act out, that sort of answers itself.
either that, or they'll just nuke us all...I guess.
then again, if they do that, they lose out on the revenue from iPad purchases...
sort of a lose lose...que no?
Strange days ahead, that's for damned sure.
I'd sure hate to be a family member of a banker...like a young son or daughter. Whew...imagine having to deal with this in a few years...
I hope the bankers back down and soon. Or the masses will start shooting and soon. OWS has been relatively mild.
OWS = BS
it is a politically backed put up job
Looks like another attempt to structure mortgage products to mix in as much CCC with supposed AAA to create the illusion of greater AAA, Just like the EURO at inception. Fatally flawed, even in a structured financial product is still fatally flawed.
Tyler, I wonder if the EURO should be looked at as "Abacus EURO" since Goldman had so much to do with its evolving design?
So this is the ground work for me going to the hills. There's an article either directly positioning China vs. US or implying it every week. The one thing that must be avoided is general war between US and China! The US will not win in 10-15 years.
In that context, Europe needs to be dealt with what they are, an aging power that only has power because they can cause temporary disruptions. We as the US need to keep our reactions focused on China.
I really don't even know here and I'm scared. There media thinks everything is grand and I think we're in peak oil, China's ascendancy, and other problems no one is even close to dealing with. At ZH, I love the discussion, it's exactly on target. It needs to get out. The problem is, how do we convince people who do not have 130-145 IQ's or higher there is a huge problem, it's coming, there's almost nothing you can do about it, and it will get worse but we're not exactly sure how yet.
Just a drunk serious rant in a fun ZH thread.
I am not in that high IQ club, cause I meant to make the post below to your post. (Associated press/miami herald article) If the chinese are not happy about giving away $500,000 in school buses, why do people think they would give away $200,000,000,000 in bailout funds?
Thats how we explain this to average IQ people (self included)
The Chinese are gving away nothing. We are givng away technology while they have manpower and desire. We are in trouble.The Chinese are biding their time Sun Tzu style.
Literally taking us and europe to school? The article is about chinese tax payers mad about the chinese government foreign aid (school buses)
The only way you'd get 500,000 americans to tweet about foriegn aid is if Bieber canceled a US show to perform for some non-americans.
And so, the world of computer games and high finance finally converge.
"Buy $5BN in Elite bonds, get your very own Limited Edition Pink Pegasus Flying mount to show off to your friends!"
I bet the elite bonds idea is the product of the latest get-together of the German, Dutch and Finnish finance ministers.
It may be the only idea that is politically achievable in these countries.
It has more merit than GS' "Eurobonds", that will leave no disciplining control in the hands of the real financiers, but everything in the tentacles of the parasitic pseudo-financiers such as the squid and/or its manipulated institutions.
Its probably already been posted here:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/28/2521393/chinas-school-bus-donation-to.html
500,000 Chinese are upset that their government gave some school buses to Macedonia, when their own roads and vehicles are sub standard. And the MSM thought China was going to be a white knight on the Eurozone bailout in the hundreds of billions of dollars?
Uh-oh's WSJ article HL: Wall Street pay could fall 30%, to lowest level since 2008 crisis. Homer analysis, still 95% too high.
So many problems, insolvency being the most important one, and the only thing that the eurocommies can come up with is more debt. So many empty words from so many broken minds but only one thing they are saying is more debt. Disintegration and defaults are the only way, there u have it.
I keep sending emails to The Bernank & fractional reserve banksters advising them that an Icelandic-like global purge is the only way to get the toxins from the bad seafood buffet binge out of the system, and reset the system for organic growth again (after the fractional reserve central banks are dismantled brick by brick), but they will not listen!
The only long term solution is to wipe out a lot of fictional wealth of the older and "weathy" in western society. The "wealthy" is easy. It's a few digital 1's and 0's.
The old is tougher. Some of them actually deserve some protection though not what is required by our laws now or demanded by our laws going forward. If you are a marginal beaureaucrat for 25 years, you do not deserve a quarter of your salary into infinity. I don't care what you were promised. If you were a Soldier or Marine, you deserive more though you wouldn't accept it easily. It's decisions like these that have been automated and projected into the future that are mathematically impossible that people are counting on that are going to crash the US economiy. Better to crash it now with Europe and recalibrate than deal with it later.
And definitely re-steal Billions from bankers, definitely do that.
Wait till the 2012 US presidential election. This time it is all about money. who has it, why do they have it, why do they get to keep it?
1+2+3 = Obama wins, and he is not going to cut pay for buerocrats.
It is very clear that the AAA- nations are establishing a dictatorial position, ahead of the Dec. 9th meeting. They are literally buying up the rest of Europe and turning nations into vassal states. These bonds will have strings tied to them. This plan will enslave Europe. It remains to be seen if the IMF will tolerate being cut out of the loop.
http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/the-daily-climb-2/
What can I say but,..."More Cow Bell".......
Is Die Welt just a vetting mechanism for all the ideas these clowns are coming up with?
How long is this ridiculous sovereign debt farce gonna go on?
December 2012, Mayan calendar had all this figured out 3400 years ago.
German Govt Source: There Are No Plans To Issue Joint Bonds Among Triple A Euro Zone Countries.And here comes Mr. Denial once again:
Nov. 28 (Bloomberg) -- European Central Bank council member
Christian Noyer said there is “no sign” of a European
recession, according to an interview with CNBC broadcast today.
There’s “high uncertainty” not only in Europe, Noyer said
in the interview.
Just wow...
Well it's official. Germans are incapable of finding a viable solution. Which means that sooner or later the euro will collapse and they'll have to face the consequences.
What would be a "viable solution" in your eyes?
Print to gain time? And then? Any ideas?
Fiscal union? Kind of an institutionalized eternal Versailles treaty? Of Course Germans not accepting Versailles treaties are very very bad boys. They have to face the consequences. Carpet bombing anyone?
Elite / AAA-bonds rumor denied:
BERLIN -- Germany's finance ministry Monday denied a report that Germany and other triple-A-rated euro-zone countries were mulling to issue common bonds to stabilize their credit rating and create a firewall to protect the euro zone.
"There are no plans for "triple A" bonds or "elite-bonds,'" the finance ministry said in a release, adding that German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble didn't discuss the issue at a meeting Friday with his colleagues from the Netherlands and Finland, which are both also triple-A countries.
© 2011 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
Seriously, who is creating these rumors and how much money are they losing by being long?
I'm fairly sure 'Elite' is a type of condom.
Used and with holes in it.
Todays AAA Rating Should be only A, if Protocols were followed
European / All governments should default on their sovereign debts en masse on a mutually agreed date (and nationalise their respective banks to protect depositors, if necessary).
Wow Call of Fasicst Duty: Modern Bankster 3: Elite bonds, great! I sure hope they come in 2 ply.
Limited time only, as not all AAA rated countries, will be so for long.
Glass-Steagall