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Bifurcated Euro Begins As AAA-Only 'Elite'-Bond Issuance Considered

Tyler Durden's picture


As the hopes of an IMF bazooka fades, Market News is reporting that the ever-ready-to-print-a-story European newspaper Die Welt says Germany and the other 5 AAA-rated nations of Europe are discussing jointly issuing 'Elite' bonds. We assume the borrowings could be used to fund the less-well-rated nations and avoid a true Euro-bond joint-and-several issuance which Merkel and other have been so opposed to. For now, it is clear that the 'Have's and the 'Have-Not's are becoming increasingly divided and this - much like our earlier discussion of the recap section of the EFSF draft - seems to be further from a fiscally united Europe and any inevitable endgame. We wonder what will happen when Austria gets downgraded? It certainly seems that the much-ridiculed ratings agencies are now playing an even more important role and we can only assume that the recent disappintments in the better-rated sovereign auctions were 'transient' and 'temporary'.

It is increasingly clear that Europe is bifurcating in many ways - High-grade and everyone else - and it appears the preparation is beginning.


From Market News:


FRANKFURT (MNI) – The German government and five other Eurozone member states with a triple A credit rating are considering issuing bonds together, German daily Die Welt reported Monday, citing unnamed highly placed EU officials.


The paper said that the money raised by the bonds would finance the debts not only of the six AAA-rated countries — Germany, France, Finland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Austria — but also help provide financial assistance, under strict conditions, for Italy and Spain.


The goal of the new bonds would be to stabilize the situation of the AAA countries and “erect a credible firewall that calms the financial markets,” the paper said.


The German Finance Agency would play a major role in the sale of the bonds, which would carry an interest rate of 2% to 2.5%, the paper said.


Since the bonds would not be “Eurobonds” jointly issued by all 17 Eurozone member states, they are being called “Elite bonds” or “Triple A bonds” for working purposes, Die Welt reported.



One more thought...Is Germany learning from its Chinese trade partners and looking to take on the vendor-financing mercantilist position among its European partners - if so, this would hardly help the imbalances that are among the causes of the problems we now stand in.


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Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:01 | 1919953 txsilverbug
txsilverbug's picture

A bond we can all have faith in.  Who's buying?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:03 | 1919960 Misean
Misean's picture

I'm an atheist. I will, however, buy some of their gold for some freshly printed FRN's.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:16 | 1920007 paarsons
paarsons's picture

Say what you will.

But you will see a Euro-bond soon.

These bankers have a lot of power.

What God wants, God gets.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:21 | 1920025 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Rumor has it, the Greys are going to lend a hundred trillion Alpha Centauri Credits backed by element 115 using the Earth's DNA as genetic collateral. The mother-ship should warp in and beam it down anytime now.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:40 | 1920061 delacroix
delacroix's picture

but, they want all the gold

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:41 | 1920064 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Sarkozy to provide collateral and consummate the deal..

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:50 | 1920226 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

We interrupt your regularly scheduled programming to bring you the following 'It's On Like Donkey Kong' breaking news:

11-28 1:45: WSJ writes: "Inner Workings of Market Readied for Euro Breakup"

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 03:04 | 1920242 HD
HD's picture

It's true...but only after after a decade or two of in depth anal probes - you know, to check our credit worthiness.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:21 | 1920322 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Indeed he does. And the "man behind the curtain" is many things, but God is not one of them. This is clearly a perpetuation of the mercantilist position to the extent that that's even possible. "Taking your toys and going home" isn't that simple however. There are "geo-political issues" which i might add probably caused this mess in the first place. The first one that stands out is "how does not solving the mess solve the mess?" The metric is brutally simple: in the USA the politicians bailed out Wall Street to their permanent political detriment. Again we find ourselves asking "and yet Germany can't find a way to stop throwing Greece under the bus"? (and stop phucking with my computer tom keene--as well as that other stuff you keep doing, too. one good night sleep. how 'bout we start with that?)

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 07:48 | 1920363 Bokkenrijder
Bokkenrijder's picture

I'm definitely not happy about it! These f*cking Eurobonds will be forced down our throats, just like the rest of the EUSSR.

If one looks at the history of the EU, then you see that everything always started off in a small number of countries (the BeNeLux) doing something sensible and it then morphs into the European Economic Community (with more corrupt members) and then into the EU.

The next move is obviously a real EUSSR (a fiscal and political union), and the jumping board will be the "AAA Eurobonds" of the stronger core countries, just like the BeNeLux formed the basis of the current mess we're in.

That's how the (ex?) communist Barroso wants to re-shape the European political landscape in a fashion that would make Fieldmarshal Tito blush.

In the mean time, I'll just continue buying Gold (holkding up it's value quite nicely in Euro's!) so I can f*ck off out of the EUSSR when the real shit will hit the fan.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:20 | 1920028 gangland
Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:53 | 1920074 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture


 When they revert to their native currency, printed in German over Beethoven's head.............


"In God We Trust.    Everyone else pay in Deutsche Marks."

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:06 | 1919979 Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

OFF TOPIC:  When the Fed buys MBS from banks at par, because the banks can't swallow the losses, what happens to the losses that inevitably happen on the Fed's balance sheet?  Do they just tell the Treasury they will print the difference up?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:09 | 1919985 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

lol!  Why would the FED, who lists their gold at $42.50/oz, list MBS at anything less than what they choose to value them at?  Also they dont answer to the treasurey, its the other way around.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:10 | 1919986 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture




Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:15 | 1920004 Manthong
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Line item: "Other"

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:54 | 1920230 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



They don't have to tell Timmy anything ...except "fuck off" perhaps.

Fed doesn't have to report to anyone, so they can carry worthless assets on their books at any value they wish.  It's called mark-to-skittle-shitting-unicorn-myth accounting.

But for the record Ben did tell Timmy IF he decides to mark some of the worthless crap on his Fed balance sheet to something anywhere aprroaching reality resulting in a loss, Timmy gets to eat it ...meaning taxpayers get to eat it ...which really doesn't mean anything since none of the $15,000 billion national debt will ever be paid off, rolled over yes, paid off no. 


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 03:03 | 1920241 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Very nice.

I like both the substance and tone of your response.


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:11 | 1919991 The Monkey
The Monkey's picture

Here's a message for all politicians, sell-side analysts, permabulls, and quite unfortunately, general citizens: you are fucked on the one-way liquidation street.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:20 | 1920023 philipat
philipat's picture

When even Germany has problems getting its own bonds away, who indeed is going to buy? WHy doesn't Germany just go it alone and charge, say, 3% spread to others? Mercantilist financier? Why not. I can't see that the US would do any favours to its partners in NAFTA under similar circumstances and 3% spread is far better than they can get alone.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:26 | 1920324 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

because Spain is too big to fail. Of course "failing Italy" is beyond sinful as well...but "why should Wall Street ever be interested in that God thing?" Hmmm. Let me see..."he built every City in Europe" seems like a good start. How 'bout the art work you have hanging on your wall? Or the colors of the cloth you wear to work? Or the music that "draws you in"? Or the....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:55 | 1920162 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Bernank actually stole 7.7 trillion in U.S. taxpayer milk money, and loaned it the banks for essentially nothing in interest, and the 13 billion is the best the incompetent FUBAR banks could do in terms of profit on that free money.

Hell, I could've easily returned 10 times that spread, and I'm not doing "God's work," and therefore not blessed as the Vampire Squid is.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:29 | 1920326 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

did their "stocks" get a "pop" on this news? No? Gee..."perhaps if they'd disclosed it properly." Oh, well. Welcome to Strangelovian Finance. How did the line go "we've built a bomb that will destroy the world as the ultimate deterrent. But we didn't tell anybody about it."...."YOU PHUCKING IDIOTS!" cue to Patsy Cline: "we'll meet again, don't know where! don't know when!" Apparently Wall Street didn't get the memo.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:09 | 1920104 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



I think America should merge with Europe.   Then we can have one currency called,  The Ameuro.   That way both our currencies will finally be fucked together in a more perfect union.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 03:27 | 1920255 eureka
eureka's picture

It's cool - Everyone will buy EU Elite bonds - just like everyone buys US Treasury Bonds - -wow - isn't it cool that the Europeans are now learning from the US how to print fiat to extend and pretend and pump stocks up so that the world doesn't collapse from sticking it to the banksters... Timmie Boy is in extacy at the prospect.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:02 | 1919954 Misean
Misean's picture

AAA, like youth, is fleeting.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:33 | 1920055 SHEEPFUKKER

FU is the new AAA. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:52 | 1920157 ZippyDooDah
ZippyDooDah's picture

Bifornication, Bitchez!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:02 | 1919956 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

Elite bombs.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:10 | 1919987 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

That's what I was thinking.  Weren't mortgage CDO's AAA?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 05:27 | 1920304 ThatThatcher
ThatThatcher's picture

So were Bear Stearns and Lehmann's.........

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:17 | 1920011 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

They meant E-light (Europe Light)

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:02 | 1919957 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

I wonder what language they have in their constitutions that would allow for extranational financial integration of this sort...  They follow the rule of their own constitutions right? ...Right?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:04 | 1919969 Misean
Misean's picture

Constimipations are like bonds, stocks and fiat...paper promises.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:05 | 1919971 txsilverbug
txsilverbug's picture

Not like they will actually create it, these are just news stories designed to suck more money into this financial abyss known as "the euro".


Politicians and bankers talking out their asses, again.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:03 | 1919962 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

phew... disaster averted.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:03 | 1919963 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Reports Of IMF Package For Italy Not Credible - International Financial Officials

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:08 | 1919984 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture


We've moved on to 'Elite Bonds' to keep the facade from crumbling.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:19 | 1920022 txsilverbug
txsilverbug's picture

Man that got shot down fast.  They need to have another meeting and get on the same page again.


Here are my guesses as to how the meetings play out behind closed doors.


Merkel: Umm, no printing!  Remember the Weimar government?
Sarkozy: Netanyahu is a liar!

Geithner: Need some money?  We can print it!

Merkel: No printing!

Obama:  Can someone help my with my capri sun?  I cant get the straw in.

Bernanke: Jackson Hole is cold this time of the year.

Monti:  here is what we will do.  We will tell them that the IMF is going to bail Italy out and this will inject the confidence needed into the bonds market and by the time they realize they have been duped, we will of kicked the can down the road.

Obama: Crap, I just got capri sun all over my new suit! This is the republicans fault!  Had they enacted my bill to replace these plastic capri sun straws with enviromentally friendly ones, I would have a clean suit!

Bernanke:  FOLKS, back to the economic issues. We have to end this meeting, I have to catch a helicopter!  The solution is easy people, there isn't one!  We just keep doing what we have been doing for the last century. Lie to everyone!

Obama:  Oh, thats easy.  Look, it got me elected! 

Monti:  OK, so I'm getting bailed out but I'm not really right?  Just one big lie to keep the machine running..

Bernanke: You catch on fast!

Monti: I am a banker you know.

Sarkozy: Netanyahu is a liar!

Obama: It's not my fault, I'll blame congress for not passing more printing measures!





Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:24 | 1920129 knukles
knukles's picture


Jackson's hole is cold this time of year.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:04 | 1919967 rumblefish
rumblefish's picture

all the pomp and circumstance...let em fail and we can move on.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:04 | 1919968 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Luxembourg? They have the gdp of a gnat.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:22 | 1920035 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Heeeyyy ... It's equivalent to that of South Dakota. That should be enough to bail out France, Italy and Spain, right? Right? Riiiiiight.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 05:54 | 1920309 ThatThatcher
ThatThatcher's picture

Who cares about scale. It's all about GDP per cap nowadays. Just jump on the triple-A bandwagon.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:05 | 1919975 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

So it's a bailout for the now isn't everyone running out of buckets?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:06 | 1919976 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

My God - somebody turned on the lights. The cockroaches are scrambling for the exits. Get the Raid!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:06 | 1919980 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

For fuck sake...just STOP this bullshit already.  Seriously....every day is some new magic potion?  Every day?!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:11 | 1919990 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Hmm, wonder what happens when a situation appears untenable between the "elites" and the "not so elites"? Eat the debt, or else?

Who would have ever thought the death spiral would be a slow motion train wreck!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:35 | 1920058 SHEEPFUKKER

This is the slowest motion trainwreck in the history of slow motion trainwrecks. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:26 | 1920131 knukles
knukles's picture

Well at least it's an elite train wreck.


If all the EU countries get downgraded below BBB does that make it EuroTrash?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:12 | 1920184 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The worst part of any trainwreck is the moment of impact.

Very painful.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:11 | 1919995 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

At least twice a day.  Otherwise the teeth begin to look yellow....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:14 | 1920001 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

The BS of the day is the ZeroHedge delight!


Your Fortune Cookie from tonight's dinner:


"He who buys Euro anything

is Yuan short pussy"


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:51 | 1920338 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

I keep wondering who the hell is stupid enough to still believe anything they say? And how come markets shoot green no matter how many times the same lie has been recycled? With gullibility like this, "The boy who cried wolf story" would in fact be "The neverending story"

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:11 | 1919993 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

Bifurcated and Bifuckated.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:15 | 1919998 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

So let me get this straight...the "good" countries sell bonds to pay for "bad" countries? And the "bad" countries will just go along with whatever the "good" countries will want? This is so freaking stupid.

Yes, I think I'll tell my drunken unkle I'm gonna pay for his rent just this one more time, while he gets a prostitute every weekend,  on MY property.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:17 | 1920012 Misean
Misean's picture

You would if you pledged the unpaid rent as receivables to someone else...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:18 | 1920016 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

The problem is everyone knows my unkle.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:21 | 1920033 Misean
Misean's picture

Is he Greek or Italian? Everyone knows them too....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:19 | 1920021 BandGap
BandGap's picture

I'm thinking they want more than just a sustained friendship.

Fucking governments blatantly covering for banks with the poeple's money.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:14 | 1919999 GoodMorningMr.V...
GoodMorningMr.VanRumpoy...'s picture

It seems there is no end to their cockiemaina schemes to try and keep it going. Wonder how long this new one will last?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:16 | 1920008 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

About to the end of the 24-hour news cycle.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:39 | 1920146 knukles
knukles's picture

The "Cycle" continues. 
It's the "News" portion stopped.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:14 | 1920000 Misean
Misean's picture

So how's that Dexia thing coming along, FrAAAnce?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:14 | 1920002 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

The funny thing about Moral Hazard and its unintended consequences is as we all wait for the  "big bailout", trade on every rumor, every potential rescue, the real solutions continue to evade all of us. The hard choices, hardly anyone ever recommends, because of the pain involved. Bailout is the solution. Amazing that the solution to solvency issues in a capitalistic society are BAILOUT.

The volitality, worst september in 20 year, best october in 30 years, WORST Thanksgiving week EVER, is killing market participants. Correlations are moving closer to 1 every day, and everyone just runs from one side of the boat to the other. One day it is just going to inadvertently tip over.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:19 | 1920019 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

We are waiting daily for this to happen . . . . .


But it never seems to occur.


Curious, no?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:21 | 1920030 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Daily? Why the fuck do people think it will happen "suddenly"? It started a while ago, it will end a while from now, all the time deteriorating.  See the big picture.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:48 | 1920052 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"the real solutions continue to evade all of us"

This bothers me too, Lizzy! Though it is part of TPTB's plan -- to confuse us with information overload (something that TD is reeeeally good at!) until they can shut the farm gate and turn on the meat grinder -- we do need to start applying brainpower and pressure to actual solutions ... rather than just placing bets on how much longer the plate will keep spinning, or shouting from the bleachers that the plate-spinner is a fuckwit!

My preferred solution is for both the US and EZ states to secede back from their respective criminal syndicates and begin issuing local currencies to their respective citizens, after haircutting whatever debts each has been proportionally saddled with by the central planners.

If only one withdraws, the banksters will send in the marines. But if a small, or greater, number do it at the same time, WE will divide and conquer THEM!

They have spent 250 years slowly herding us all into these super-states - both in Europe and in the US - yet we could revert back to national and cultural freedom in a very short period. Asia isn't going to attack anybody, and the camel-herders couldn't mount an offensive across the Mediterranean, let alone the Atlantic!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:15 | 1920003 Cdad
Cdad's picture

And just tonight, the WorldWide BlowHorn [CNBC World] was touting the story that greater fiscal integration was the reason the markets were up.  Just a couple hours ago, in fact.  

Stand back, folks.  No one is going to believe a single word coming out of this Euro trash banker crowd.  Prepare to watch further "good news" ignored, no matter what it the gig is up.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:21 | 1920032 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

"Stand back, folks.  No one is going to believe a single word coming out of this Euro trash banker crowd."


But they do, every day.


The masses buy this shit every single day.


Nothing you can do to stop them.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:37 | 1920060 oldman
oldman's picture


Please, show me a single member of your 'masses' that even has an active account to buy this 'shit' everyday.

There is nothing to stop          om

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:51 | 1920075 Cdad
Cdad's picture

They are stopping themselves.  If you even bothered to read my short post, you would have gotten that drift.

The credibility of the global financial system is nil.  Have you been paying attention to the market, the world wide market for bonds?  

And please post apathy on someone else's comments, thank you.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:17 | 1920013 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Well, I have the answer, at least for tonight. I am going to bed.

Good Night, or should I say Gute Nacht.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:17 | 1920014 Rogier
Rogier's picture

'Elite' has a vague stripclub sort of ring...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:32 | 1920328 Ronaldo
Ronaldo's picture

Would "Elite - AAA" be stripper car insurance?  I think I would file a claim!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:18 | 1920015 zonkie
zonkie's picture

Sounds like Derivative style - reminicent of 2008 ruse to make a bad investment masquerade as AAA.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:18 | 1920017 xcehn
xcehn's picture

Sarkozy and Merkel are consulting GS for innovative solutions.  Afterall, look at what GS did for Greece.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:18 | 1920018 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

And the futures just keep on truckin'.  You know...cause it's all legit and shit.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:04 | 1920098 homer8043
homer8043's picture

You either have positions that can stand a few days of pain or not. We're going way, way down. The path is undetermined.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:22 | 1920034 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

The LAFFiNG countries? Oh, come ON.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:16 | 1920190 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Your avatar looks like the tinman (seated) and the cowardly lion (standing) while pointing at a peice of paper at the table. You can have my username if you want. send me a PM. I have probably learned as much as I can here by posting and are dragging the comments down.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:28 | 1920039 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

LET IT HAPPEN!!!! (bk)

Stop this bull shit. You are making it worse.

Shit...I would lose money but I want to see this end.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:27 | 1920042 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

If they cannot sell these elite bonds, they will just monetise them.  That way they will enforce discipline on the weaker states.  There will be severe austerity in the PIIGS.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:29 | 1920044 xcehn
xcehn's picture

Severe strikes and rioting too.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:29 | 1920046 oldman
oldman's picture


Is not this rumor, perhaps, a trial baloon for a new 'old Europe' European Union that worked so well before the admission of all the small and culturally problematic states?

The campaign of inflammatory propaganda actually, imo, would have had little affect on this small group of nations that comprise nearly all of the EU's productive force. Of course, it is different now because of all of the 'insurance' that has been underwritten vis a vis the derivatives invented by the banks and ratings agency.

Know nothing about this---just a thought that occurred                           om

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:33 | 1920056 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Can these countries hold onto their ratings until the time of issuance?
Watch their bond yields go up after EU markets open...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:36 | 1920059 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Well, if they're going to do a AAA-only bond issuance, they had better hurry.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:06 | 1920101 homer8043
homer8043's picture

Next two week or hours?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:40 | 1920062 uneducated minion
uneducated minion's picture

The one thing I don't get, is that this is by design... that much we know.  We know the plan.  So why is it a "stick save and a beauty" every day..?  Are they that clueless that they still think no one knows what the ultimate goal is??

btw.. do they really think the masses, when finally informed, are going to go on their merry way with an "awe..shucks" mentalitiy??  I don't see that happening.  I mean, when the cops start to realize what's been done...are they going to side with the m'fing elitists, or keep killing people in the streets???  Then again, I guess if the masses aren't clued in and act out, that sort of answers itself.

either that, or they'll just nuke us all...I guess.

then again, if they do that, they lose out on the revenue from iPad purchases...

sort of a lose lose...que no?

Strange days ahead, that's for damned sure.

I'd sure hate to be a family member of a a young son or daughter.  Whew...imagine having to deal with this in a few years...


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:30 | 1920204 homer8043
homer8043's picture

I hope the bankers back down and soon. Or the masses will start shooting and soon. OWS has been relatively mild.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 07:03 | 1920340 Weisbrot
Weisbrot's picture


it is a politically backed put up job



Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:04 | 1920077 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Looks like another attempt to structure mortgage products to mix in as much CCC with supposed AAA to create the illusion of greater AAA, Just like the EURO at inception. Fatally flawed, even in a structured financial product is still fatally flawed.

Tyler, I wonder if the EURO should be looked at as "Abacus EURO" since Goldman had so much to do with its evolving design?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 00:55 | 1920086 homer8043
homer8043's picture

So this is the ground work for me going to the hills. There's an article either directly positioning China vs. US or implying it every week. The one thing that must be avoided is general war between US and China! The US will not win in 10-15 years.

In that context, Europe needs to be dealt with what they are, an aging power that only has power because they can cause temporary disruptions. We as the US need to keep our reactions focused on China.

I really don't even know here and I'm scared. There media thinks everything is grand and I think we're in peak oil, China's ascendancy, and other problems no one is even close to dealing with. At ZH, I love the discussion, it's exactly on target. It needs to get out. The problem is, how do we convince people who do not have 130-145 IQ's or higher there is a huge problem, it's coming, there's almost nothing you can do about it, and it will get worse but we're not exactly sure how yet.

Just a drunk serious rant in a fun ZH thread.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:35 | 1920142 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I am not in that high IQ club, cause I meant to make the post below to your post. (Associated press/miami herald article) If the chinese are not happy about giving away $500,000 in school buses, why do people think they would give away $200,000,000,000 in bailout funds?

Thats how we explain this to average IQ people (self included)

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:13 | 1920185 homer8043
homer8043's picture

The Chinese are gving away nothing. We are givng away technology while they have manpower and desire. We are in trouble.The Chinese are biding their time Sun Tzu style.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:42 | 1920217 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Literally taking us and europe to school? The article is about chinese tax payers mad about the chinese government foreign aid (school buses) 

The only way you'd get 500,000 americans to tweet about foriegn aid is if Bieber canceled a US show to perform for some non-americans.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:00 | 1920093 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

And so, the world of computer games and high finance finally converge.


"Buy $5BN in Elite bonds, get your very own Limited Edition Pink Pegasus Flying mount to show off to your friends!"

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:21 | 1920126 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

I bet the elite bonds idea is the product of the latest get-together of the German, Dutch and Finnish finance ministers.

It may be the only idea that is politically achievable in these countries.

It has more merit than GS' "Eurobonds", that will leave no disciplining control in the hands of the real financiers, but everything in the tentacles of the parasitic pseudo-financiers such as the  squid and/or its manipulated institutions.  

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:24 | 1920128 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Its probably already been posted here:

China's school bus donation to Macedonia derided

500,000 Chinese are upset that their government gave some school buses to Macedonia, when their own roads and vehicles are sub standard. And the MSM thought China was going to be a white knight on the Eurozone bailout in the hundreds of billions of dollars? 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 01:33 | 1920139 homer8043
homer8043's picture

Uh-oh's WSJ article HL: Wall Street pay could fall 30%, to lowest level since 2008 crisis. Homer analysis, still 95% too high.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:03 | 1920172 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

So many problems, insolvency being the most important one, and the only thing that the eurocommies can come up with is more debt. So many empty words from so many broken minds but only one thing they are saying is more debt. Disintegration and defaults are the only way, there u have it.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:11 | 1920182 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I keep sending emails to The Bernank & fractional reserve banksters advising them that an Icelandic-like global purge is the only way to get the toxins from the bad seafood buffet binge out of the system, and reset the system for organic growth again (after the fractional reserve central banks are dismantled brick by brick), but they will not listen!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:27 | 1920201 homer8043
homer8043's picture

The only long term solution is to wipe out a lot of fictional wealth of the older and "weathy" in western society. The "wealthy" is easy. It's a few digital 1's and 0's.

The old is tougher. Some of them actually deserve some protection though not what is required by our laws now or demanded by our laws going forward. If you are a marginal beaureaucrat for 25 years, you do not deserve a quarter of your salary into infinity. I don't care what you were promised. If you were a Soldier or Marine, you deserive more though you wouldn't accept it easily. It's decisions like these that have been automated and projected into the future that are mathematically impossible that people are counting on that are going to crash the US economiy. Better to crash it now with Europe and recalibrate than deal with it later.

And definitely re-steal Billions from bankers, definitely do that.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 03:28 | 1920256 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Wait till the 2012 US presidential election. This time it is all about money. who has it, why do they have it, why do they get to keep it?

  1. Romney is part of that old wealth. Which I guess should be allowed.
  2. Buffet is also old+new wealth, and he is a career tax dodger. he wants higher taxes on the wealthy and he wants obama to win.
  3. Romney has run for elections over the last 20 years. he has refused to publically release his tax forms.

1+2+3 = Obama wins, and he is not going to cut pay for buerocrats.


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:13 | 1920186 Georgesblog
Georgesblog's picture

It is very clear that the AAA- nations are establishing a dictatorial position, ahead of the Dec. 9th meeting. They are literally buying up the rest of Europe and turning nations into vassal states. These bonds will have strings tied to them. This plan will enslave Europe. It remains to be seen if the IMF will tolerate being cut out of the loop.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:13 | 1920189 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

What can I say but,..."More Cow Bell".......

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:44 | 1920219 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

Is Die Welt just a vetting mechanism for all the ideas these clowns are coming up with?  

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 02:55 | 1920235 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



How long is this ridiculous sovereign debt farce gonna go on?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:36 | 1920331 Ronaldo
Ronaldo's picture

December 2012, Mayan calendar had all this figured out 3400 years ago.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 04:34 | 1920286 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture


German Govt Source: There Are No Plans To Issue Joint Bonds Among Triple A Euro Zone Countries.



Mon, 11/28/2011 - 05:12 | 1920300 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

And here comes Mr. Denial once again:

Nov. 28 (Bloomberg) -- European Central Bank council member
Christian Noyer said there is “no sign” of a European
recession, according to an interview with CNBC broadcast today.
     There’s “high uncertainty” not only in Europe, Noyer said
in the interview.

Just wow...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 05:24 | 1920302 Elorant
Elorant's picture

Well it's official. Germans are incapable of finding a viable solution. Which means that sooner or later the euro will collapse and they'll have to face the consequences.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:13 | 1920319 OttoMBMP
OttoMBMP's picture

What would be a "viable solution" in your eyes?

Print to gain time? And then? Any ideas?

Fiscal union? Kind of an institutionalized eternal Versailles treaty? Of Course Germans not accepting Versailles treaties are very very bad boys. They have to face the consequences. Carpet bombing anyone?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:18 | 1920318 SixFeetFromTheHedge
SixFeetFromTheHedge's picture

Elite / AAA-bonds rumor denied:



BERLIN -- Germany's finance ministry Monday denied a report that Germany and other triple-A-rated euro-zone countries were mulling to issue common bonds to stabilize their credit rating and create a firewall to protect the euro zone.

"There are no plans for "triple A" bonds or "elite-bonds,'" the finance ministry said in a release, adding that German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble didn't discuss the issue at a meeting Friday with his colleagues from the Netherlands and Finland, which are both also triple-A countries.

© 2011 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.


Seriously, who is creating these rumors and how much money are they losing by being long?


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:35 | 1920330 GoldbugVariation
GoldbugVariation's picture

I'm fairly sure 'Elite' is a type of condom.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 06:49 | 1920335 OttoMBMP
OttoMBMP's picture

Used and with holes in it.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 07:01 | 1920339 Weisbrot
Weisbrot's picture



Todays AAA Rating Should be only A, if Protocols were followed



Mon, 11/28/2011 - 11:37 | 1920955 DrunkenMonkey
DrunkenMonkey's picture

European / All governments should default on their sovereign debts en masse on a mutually agreed date (and nationalise their respective banks to protect depositors, if necessary).

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 15:57 | 1922274 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Wow Call of Fasicst Duty: Modern Bankster 3: Elite bonds, great!  I sure hope they come in 2 ply. 

Limited time only, as not all AAA rated countries, will be so for long.


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