Bill Gross Gets It

Tyler Durden's picture

The bond king just tweeted:

He gets it. For those who don't, here is an explanation.

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LaLiLuLeLo's picture

Neo Feudalism bitchez

trav7777's picture

we already have is called strong socialism.

It enshrines a political class and their offspring in positions of power.  Even Ron Paul's kid is in Congress.

falak pema's picture

no that's not socialism; its royalism, mixing metaphors. Socialism is when the bottom layers of society use state to act like the upper class; not when the elites act like they own it.

Use the right paint when you paint.

The Big Ching-aso's picture



Has anyone bothered checking with the Greek people themselves if they 'get it'?  I don't know why but Iceland comes to mind.

falak pema's picture

Iceland opted OUt right from day 1.

The Greek people WANT to stay in Eurozone, they have said it, but they don't want the austerity. So if Eurozone now says NIET, then its goodbye Greece. 

Manthong's picture


Another term for "sloppy seconds"?

The Big Ching-aso's picture



Ya understand, but like Iceland at first I don't think the real Greek pitchfork and torches have come out yet.

StychoKiller's picture

Please do not stand up until the Gravy Train has come to a complete stop and the biscuit wheels have fallen off...

Z Beeblebrox's picture

Nah, socialism is when the ruling class convinces the lower class that stealing from the middle and upper classes is just. This is accomplished by telling the lower class that the plunder is going to them, when it's really going to the ruling class.

falak pema's picture

that's not socialism that is totalitarian, soviet style,  or monarchial, if its absolutist. There is no trickle down to bottom. So no socialism. 

Social democracy is real socialism; you see it in Sweden etc. : High taxes, high entitlements and small spreads between rich and poor. And it works in stable fashion, not a scam. Its a market economy with high regulation and wealth distribution.

A scam is a scam, whatever you call it : totalitarian state like N. Korea/Russia today or private Oligarchy run like in USA (FED/WS). 

giddy's picture

...and the only successful "socialist" societies are homogenious ones.  People helping their own tribe.  And even then its not easy to perpetuate.  Like Maggie said -- soon or later, they run out of other peoples money...    

Al Gorerhythm's picture

Even here, history has to be replayed.

malek's picture

So you're saying Sweden is the shining example of working socialism?

falak pema's picture

I'm defining my perception of the word "socialism" via a contemporary example, given  the prevalent knee jerk usage at ZH to describe all and sundry, mostly derogatory; which is fine by me as value judgement, if its used correctly when defining a social system of nation state. 

I did not talk about an ideal society, and as far as shining societies are concerned the Scandavian model gets more greenies in world forums than the USA does; or Germany, France and UK. 

Don't read into what I say. The onus is on the use of word "socialism". Elitist private enterprise run social aggregates that privatise profits and socialise debt are NOT socialist examples, far from it. That's the point I made on this thread.

malek's picture

Maybe I misread your statement - were you trying to say

"Social democracy is realLY socialism"?

falak pema's picture

Nope, I was saying it was closer to a socialist construct than USA. This whole thread started off when someone said : US banksta/Congress elites are making the country socialist. They are not. 

malek's picture

Oh, well it's not the banksta/Congress elites directly, but overall groups of people are making the US socialist.
The elites wouldn't prefer that approach, but they accept it as a different way to keep the proles numb. In a kind of stable way for some time, yes.

I can tell socialism, I grew up mostly in Europe - not Sweden though.
I couldn't believe how far the do-gooders have made this country go down that path, when moving back here a few years ago.

You might want to look at transfer payments as % of federal budget (or of GDP) as a measure of socialism.
A small spread between (ruling) elite and poor is not a sign of socialism, but of egalitarian societies. Those can only exist if most people don't feel the urge to improve their lifestyle anymore.

DosZap's picture

Use the right paint when you paint

Then call it what it really is FASCISM.

Silver Bug's picture

Bill Gross is one of the only mainstream champions left. He has been spot on, even if he was a little early. I would rather be too early, than too late.

Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The Senate is part of Congress.

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ bindar

That's an interesting article, thanks for sharing the link.

Fringe Blogger Bearing mentions how the game of "Screw the Bondholders" has now gone to Europe (in his review of this weekend's Barron's), we saw a nice case of it here with GM.  I put up my latest piece "Review of Barron's, Dated 20 February" last night.  I include my take of the Hugh Hendry interview as well as Tatyana Shumway's piece on tungsten.  Curious?  Gmail me at my name (and promise you will behave!) for the link or just go look for it yourself via Google.

malek's picture

That would be great, if it were technologically achievable.
It is not.

Putting nuclear plants undergrund, I presume deep underground, does not automatically solve all containment problems (see Fukushima Cs seemingly seeping into the soil and groundwater) but creates now ones like tunnel collapse or water ingress, and especially cooling!

Also you can't take a 2 GW nuclear power plant design and upscale it to a 200 GW reactor - there are technological and material limits in the way.
So the number of 50 reactors being sufficient is a joke.

Also long-distance superconducting transmission is not feasible nor makes it economic sense as of today.

Eireann go Brach's picture

They should charge these fuckers with a FUI...financing under the influence!

Buck Johnson's picture

This was ECB's hailmary pass to stop the craziness and it won't last.  We still haven't heard about the debt holders who will say okay for the 50 percent cut or more on their bonds and still not be considered a credit event.  And then they turn around and do this hailmary of swapping their debt with new debt and essentially saying that our debt is better than yours and that doesn't make sense.


bugs_'s picture

Thats rich - a front runner complaining about subordinators

Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

He's down river from the human sacrifices and finally learned how to make soap.

Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

He had been rolling bones like Yatzee and letting the tea leaves blow in the wind while he did yoga for the years leading up to the collapse.  Dude was too high on opium topped bong rips the whole run up to the Fall of '08 and now he is whining like a baby about low rates when he should have seen it coming.  He should have known to bought gold years ago.  He should quit his whinning and move to Bali and become a yogi if he has suh a problem with the market.  You don't see me bitching, I just tell people to buy stocks because the worth of fiat is devaluing rapidly, unless of course they have a pair and want to hold their own wealth.

Seize Mars's picture

@Mr Lennon Hendrix

Congratulations. You have put together the most "mixed metaphors" I have ever seen in my life. (Technically there are some similes, but whatever).


Turd Ferguson's picture

True but, more importantly, who will be supplying the bids for sovereign debt in the future? 

Additionally, if ISDA fails to declare "default", thus making CDS a complete waste of time and money, the bid for the distressed debt of Italy, Spain et al completely dries up.

No bid = no market

Things are about to begin moving very quickly.

oogs66's picture

who needs a market when the only buyers are banks who get all their money from ltro?  that and the blackrock guys since they are now competing with warren buffet for all the inside looks from the government

Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Who needs a market?  Um, everybody not on the inside, which makes up 99.9% of the population.

Ghordius's picture

Not yet, but nearly so...
Hello? How old is the sovereign bonds market? CDSs have for all purpuses entangled the banking systems in the 5 minutes since they exist. They belong to the dumpster of history. They ought to be illegal "for reasons of logic".

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Indeed.  Mr. Ferguson is a gem.  + 1

valley chick's picture

what things will begin to move more quickly? Will they attempt to usher in the NWO now?

Seer's picture


Not saying that some don't have designs and aspirations, just that its probability is very low given that there are insufficient resources available to put and keep it in place.  Increased control requires MORE energy (to offset entropy).

It is, however, possible that it could exist for a short period of time; but, there's ZERO probability that it could become the permanent state of governance: ALL BAD SYSTEMS FAIL, AND, BIG SYSTEMS FAIL IN BIG WAYS (BIG = FAIL!).

Calmyourself's picture

Thanks Turd that is interesting.  Rookie question,  are you saying there is a bid only because there is insurance on default?  It seems counterintuitive to buy sov. bonds only in anticipation of default, what is the end game who pays? 

FranSix's picture

I don't know if anybody missed the long term treasury bond auction results Feb. 8.  Its looking as if long term treasuries are on the chopping block, while short term paper will be overbid.

trav7777's picture

I think the verbosity on explaining why being owed money by a sovereign affords NO "recovery" protection is absurd.  Between Durden and the other analysis, how many words can they waste?

SO WHAT if the ECB "crams" anyone down?  The yesteryear outcome was that the sovereign just told you to GFY.  There is no court to which you can go to get a sheriff to repo a car from a sovereign.

If Greece defaults, news flash:  you own their debt, you don't get paid. 

FranSix's picture

The subtle irony in the market is that the ECB can still lower short term interest rates once all the paper shuffling is done.

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 to trav7777

They (our .gov) got away with it with GM, so why won't the Greeks screw their bondholders?  Where's the downside?

DosZap's picture


so why won't the Greeks screw their bondholders?  Where's the downside?

There is none, and I personally think that has been their Con game all along.

Seer's picture

"If Greece defaults, news flash:  you own their debt, you don't get paid."

Can't get blood out of a rock.

Further, negotiations are with the EXISTING govt, a govt which, if it presses its jackboot down too hard, risks being completely toppled.  Who, then, would the debt holders deal with?

Problem IS the debt holders'.  Lenders fucked up and now they've got to eat it.  It'll be interesting to see how this ripples back through the rest of the Global System...

Welcome to the new world, a world of "economies of scale in reverse."  Didn't think that that infinite growth on a finite planet thing was going to work did ya?...