Bill Gross Takes On Paul Ryan

Tyler Durden's picture

By now the broad media (where suddenly everyone has become a political expert... math - not so much) has said everything there is to say about Paul Ryan and about 4-5x more than necessary. Now it is time for the pundits. First in line, PIMCO's Bill Gross who just tweeted the following...

The flip side to that question is, of course, very simple: why pay any taxes at all?

With US tax revenues at roughly half of total spending, and declining every day, meaning the balance has to be funded by debt issuance, aren't we just splitting hairs here? Just go the whole hog and collect zero taxes. After all based on recent bizarro logic, the resulting global crisis would guarantee demand for "safe haven" US bonds for centuries to come, even as America effectively collects no tax revenue in perpetuity.

Also, what a better way to test trickle down economics and MMT at the same time.

That way everyone will be happy, including Bill, whose bonds in inventory will be monetized by the Fed day after day, as quite soon there will be no-one else left to buy.

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malikai's picture

That way everyone will be happy, including Bill, whose bonds in inventory will be monetized by the Fed day after day, as quite soon there will be no-one else left.

Seriously.

Hype Alert's picture

I thought we were there already.

vast-dom's picture

bonds may be the greatest bubble of all time. why bother to collect taxes? taxes put crimp on spending and spending doesn't allow the markets to grow. instead of taxes let the gov via fed QE itself rather than ponzi st. why not? at least this will stave off the zombie uprising a bit longer. later they will QE to the people, including and especially the unemployed. why not? it's not like any of these people or their status quo malfunctioning systems make a scintilla of sense. 

Hugh_Jorgan's picture

While I'm no fan of the GOP (or politicians in general) at least Ryan looks like he has a somewhat viable plan to back up his rhetoric, Gross. Your buddies in the DNC have completely stonewalled this plan in Congress because it reduces government control. Have you got a better plan, or just the sour grapes?

 

http://roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/

whstlblwr's picture

Viable plan? Build up supply and they will come. He's a Jack Kemp lover.

Whoa Dammit's picture

"He's a Jack Kemp lover" may be more true that you know since he used to be tight with Jack In The Closet. 

nmewn's picture

Well, lets see here...yesterday Ryan was nothing short of the anti-christ in human form according to left wing MSM pundits, who dutifully called up the flying monkeys of Kos to land on the pages of ZH.

Today its PimpCo's boss (and a subordinate) seeing a "real problem" with LESS taxation, lower deficits, lower debt...thus lower debt issuance and profit for him.

Why, theres almost like some sort of symbiotic relationship here ;-)

 

Hohum's picture

It might be more viable if he left taxes at current rates.  Mr. Ryan is basically another fool who thinks cutting taxes for the wealthy will spur on prosperity.  It won't, but it might inflate stocks a bit.  Tax cuts for lower incomes, of course, principally benefit the People's Republic of China.

LooseLee's picture

Yea. Cut taxes for the warmongers who will continue to bankrupt us with empire and nation building nonsense. Chicken Littles are what they are in essence and at heart....

boogerbently's picture

C'mon,

We should all be willing to pay higher taxes, so the bond market benefits, then?!?!

 

ATM's picture

Actually he's talking about cutting the marginal rates while also closing the bullshit loopholes (only some of them of course). The Feds tax take actually stays the same or goes up.

This talk of "cutting taxes" is utter leftist bullshit. It's called leveling the playing field but Ryan's plan doesn't fix anything. That's either because he doesn't really believe in fixing anything or because he understands the political reality that you cannot actually propose a real fix and win an election. 

Whichever you choose to believe is up to you.

LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

The firm name should be PIMPco with el-erian pushing for more QE (MONEY)for itself yet flashback (not that there's anything wrong with cutting spending we have to but talk about hypocritical out of one side of his mouth he clamor's for more Socialism for himself ) ...

"Austerity? Yes, say Bill Gross, a Republican, and Mohamed El-Erian, a Democrat, the chief investment officers of the giant bond fund Pimco. They support curbs on entitlement spending."

 

Exercises In Supreme Hypocrisy: Bill Gross Edition

"Well, Gross should know all about special interests and bribery. A casual check indicates that the PIMCO boss himself donated $6,900 to future present Barack Obama in 2008, and another $4,000 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign committee. What was the IRR on that investment Mr. Gross? Just how many special Treasury JVs is PIMCO part of these days, and how much taxpayer money ends up in the Newport Beach bond manager daily, to simply trade side-by-side with the Federal Reserve and front-ru(i)n the broader investing public? Was Obama the cheapest politician you could buy?

We were so appalled with the result of this query that we decided against checking further back in time to see just what the price of bribery for prior presidents was. However, we did check how much of a "special interest" PIMCO itself is - to our (lack of) surprise, Mr. Gross, your company has spent at least $431,101 to curry favor with assorted representatives of the government in precisely the very action whose daily occurrence you lament. In the face of the below table, can you please tell the American public how they are supposed to take you seriously ever again?"

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/exercises-supreme-hypocrisy-bill-gross-edition

 

 

"I'm Bill Gross And I Endorse Ron Paul For President"

The Rising Stock Market Could Get Obama Reelected

 

 

TheGardener's picture

Isn`t PIMCO owned by Allianz ? Which company is a pseudonym for dumb money locked into ridiculous European life insurance saving plan policies never to be payed out ? No wonder their American hofkasper executives can freely comment on anything.

Clowns supporting clowns, follow the money...

Whoa Dammit's picture

The GOP plan is the same old trickle down make the rich richer while demonizing and cheating the working poor and middle class who paid into Social Security and Medicare their whole lives. 

Plus, Paul Ryan looks a lot like Bugsy Siegel (see photo on the right in link below) . I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

http://www.comicvine.com/bugsy-siegel/29-6176/

LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

"Whoa Dammit The GOP plan is the same old trickle down make the rich richer while demonizing and cheating the working poor and middle class who paid into Social Security and Madicare their whole lives. "

Actually what bernanke is doing is based on Marx's Theory of Reflexivity that's a leftist ideology

"Federal Reserve Chief Ben Bernanke believes that by pulling up stocks, the masses will feel richer and spend more on consumer goods, thus lifting up the economy. This is based on Karl Marx's reflexivity theory (George Soros essentially paraphrased Marx) that states by turning the small wheel (stocks), you can turn the big wheel (economy), which in turn will come back and turn up the small wheel (stocks). Bernanke subscribes to such a theory, and he wants QE to lift up the small wheel (stocks), which he hopes will lift up the big wheel (the economy)."

TheGardener's picture

Bugsy Siegel looks like a cool chap. I`d have hired him, not just for my accounts receivables. And if he had suggested I
keep just ten percent holding shares and get paid out profit tenfold then before, he surely looks far more trustworthy than any tax collector who puts it the other way round.

kliguy38's picture

here's a better plan for you......forget looking at dems or reps for an answer....if you haven't figured out their puppet strings are attached to the same puppet master then there is no hope for a real solution.........btw the real solution involves pain and a lot of it

LooseLee's picture

Damn! If only we could have a small minority of serious minded people see the utter truth of this statement and act (or rather not act as inaction is the highest form of action) from it. Small minds, unfortunately, are extremely insecure and fearful and therfore must identify with something larger than themselves. The idea of Dems and Reps is an illusion and the truth of the matter is in seeing what they actually are and refusing to participate in it. BTW same process goes for any 'idea' that separates people....

MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

I came to this site just over a year ago with the intention of spreading the progressive revolution to one of the few bastions of libertarian ignorance. Over that period, the number of progressive and left-leaning comments and articles has risen dramatically to the point at which we seriously threaten the libertarian status quo. Whereas for most this site’s history, anti-union or anti-welfare comments would have been considered the norm, they are now hammered with down arrows.  I predict that by the end of this year, the progressive revolution will have fully taken over Zerohedge, and libertarians will have to find somewhere else to post their insolent nonsense. I will continue the march to promote the virtues of central planning and state-enforced controls on the movement of peoples, goods and services, because I know that this is the only path to proseperity, peace and liberty. 

malikai's picture

You didn't troll this place on your own. Somebody else helped you!

SilverIsKing's picture

I was frightened that you were going to say, "so my work here is done."

Keep posting since no one here can match your sense of humor.  Many have tried but you take the cake (but you have to share it with the have-nots)

LooseLee's picture

See my comment above yours. You are the essence of the misguided....

Carl Spackler's picture

I will continue the march to promote the virtues of central planning and state-enforced controls on the movement of peoples, goods and services, because I know that this is the only path to proseperity, peace and liberty. 

 

Central planning leads to liberty.  Nice.  Only an Obama would tout such utter hogwash.

 

TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

MillionDollarBonus_ said:

I will continue the march to promote the virtues of central planning and state-enforced controls on the movement of peoples, goods and services, because I know that this is the only path to proseperity, peace and liberty.

Now that is a beautifully crafted statement, the perfect capstone to a comment which is an instant classic.

JimboWHO's picture

Gross is a common liberal.  No surprise here at all.

 

 

https://home.wellsfargoadvisors.com/james.malmstrom

bobnoxy's picture

If by common liberal you mean highly educated and very smart, then I agree with you. He does seem to have done very well for himself over a long period of time in a highly competitive environment, don't you think?

I mean really, don't you think? At all?

Bastiat009's picture

Pablo Escobar did seem to have done very well for himself over a long period of time in a highly competitive environment too.

Gross did beg to be bailed out 4 years ago. Now he should just apologize or shut up.

Spitzer's picture

getting lucky and riding the biggest bubble of all time ? man that takes skill. sarc

he still has to get his exit timing right. 

otto skorzeny's picture

my favorite story is when Pablo was hiding in the mountains he burned $1M in bricks of US dollars to keep his daughter warm. Try doin' that with your PMs-ZHers

malikai's picture

My favourite story is the one about how Mr. Escobar went from "our guy" to "bad guy".

bobnoxy's picture

And where is old Pablo now? Oh, it seems he didn't get very old after all. Brilliant.

otto skorzeny's picture

yeah-but he lived the life 10000 average men wouldn't add up to.

bobnoxy's picture

Lived a great life? Killed how many, then died like the dog he was. Somehting to aspire to for you I guess, but not for most. You set the bar just above the dirt that rodents piss on.

Spitzer's picture

All the fucktards got bailed out in twotgousand eight. even goldman. although word is, goldman sachs has a substancial physical position in gold 

Comay Mierda's picture

he didnt build his career. someone else did.

bobnoxy's picture

That tired bit of nonsense again? As usual, you Republicans...sorry, Libertarians are always the last to know that Obie didn't say that. It was what you heard after what he said was edited for context for political gain. You know, the kind of stuff Fox does all the time.

But then, you didn't hear about that because you didn't want to. You;d rather believe in the lie.

bobnoxy's picture

And what is it about ''roads and bridges'' that you keep refusing to hear?

Comay Mierda's picture

 

and here is confirmation on how he feels about individual success

Obama: "A New Vision Of An America In Which Prosperity Is Shared"

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/13/obama_a_new_vision_of_...

Maybe when he messaged Michael Phelps he should have told him to give his golds to other racers so they can feel like they succeeded too.  After all, he didnt win those medals, someone else did

or maybe he should send a gold to the company that built the pool he trained in. cuz they made him successful

bobnoxy's picture

Given your intellectual laziness, just skip ahead to the 1:40 mark. Apparently to this dumb shit, Phelps didn't do that alone either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Yp9SVSWJU

Comay Mierda's picture

angry commies make me laugh. you are too funny

you are not successful in life. and you want others to give you what they have earned.

you must masturbate to obama speeches

bobnoxy's picture

That's all you have left? So soon? Typical right winger. And just when I set my expectations even lower, here you come along.

Religion Explained's picture

right winger, as in facist? You're a moron ... here, go educate yourself and don't come back till I tell ya, stimpy, you blithering eeeeeeeeeeediot ...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgES

Pareto's picture

"Intellectual laziness".  Obama's message was/is abundantly clear (even though many of us have taken the "you didn't build that" to extreme......for shaaaahurrr), everything you have is a result of the State!  I don't know how you can interpret that speech in Virginia in any other way, quite frankly.  And as far as intellectual laziness is concerned, do the math.  $16T has done nothing; an anemic growth rate at best.  And please, please.......please don't say, like all you leftists continue to do as if it is the only fall back argument that you have, that "HE INHERITED the greatest recession since the 1930's".  Obama owns this period.  Nobody else, and he has effectively doubled the debt of all previous POTUS before him.  Bottom line, Obama is a socialist, and socialism does not work, because it cannot work.  It creates all the wrong and perverse incentives, which are unproductive.  Just ask the Bernank, how well NIRP, or ZIRP is working...same reatrded policies, same result.  Nothing.  Message:  There is No Free Lunch!  So, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results......thats intellectual laziness.  Finally, one thing that is for sure.  On the $16T debt, $5T deficit, 8.4% unemployment (not counting those that have said "fuck it"), well, I didn't build it.  cheers

bobnoxy's picture

No, he didn't double the debt all by himself. Factually wrong again. And somehow, after Bush and Reagan ripped the debt higher, it was all Congress' fault, or you just ignore it because you voted for those losers.

84% of the debt on the books when Obie got in was put there by Reagan and Bush Jr. (You can check it, but I know you won't. I did) But it wasn't a concern until now when a Democrat is in office?

Nice that you can absolve Congress and their Constitutional ''power of the purse'' from any responsibility for the rising debt now, especially in the absence of a budget written by Obama.

And yes, YES, he did inherit the biggest mess since the Deprssion, well under way before he parked his ass in the White House. And yes, that matters!

You dumb shits, you fucking morons that voted for Bush and Cheney, twice!, then want to ignore the vast damage they did and blame it all on the next guy? Classic.

Don't forget the first trillion dollar deficit was signed by Bush! Add that to his totals and take it off Obama's.

Pareto's picture

hey shit for brains!

Nobody here is endorsing bush or cheney, or any other government twit for that matter.  Thats the point!  Government doesn't fucking work!  Moreover, nobody is blaming Obama!  But, the bottom line, is that he has and continues to endorse "free lunch" policies.  I don't care what you want to call me, Krugmanite Keynesianism is a recipe for disaster!  Just ask Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Denmark, Belgium, Ireland, Britain, and every other country in the developed world.  You want to make claim to "eating the rich", go ahead, but, you won't find any here.  They've already left.  Like Thatcher says, "socialism's a great idea until you run out of other people's money." idiot.

Pareto's picture

hey shit for brains!

Nobody here is endorsing bush or cheney, or any other government twit for that matter.  Thats the point!  Government doesn't fucking work!  Moreover, nobody is blaming Obama!  But, the bottom line, is that he has and continues to endorse "free lunch" policies.  I don't care what you want to call me, Krugmanite Keynesianism is a recipe for disaster!  Just ask Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Denmark, Belgium, Ireland, Britain, and every other country in the developed world.  You want to make claim to "eating the rich", go ahead, but, you won't find any here.  They've already left.  Like Thatcher says, "socialism's a great idea until you run out of other people's money." idiot.

bobnoxy's picture

You double posted something that wasn't even good enough for a single effort. And if you don't think Obama's being blamed, you're as willfully ignorant as can be.

Canada has government run, ''Socialistic health care'' and a lot higher taxes. Who's better off? Look around the world at places like Northern Europe, run much like Canada. Are we better off than they are?

Let's go further and see that the Commie and Socialist countries have all the money, and the biggest capitalists of all, us, keep begging them for loans. I know, you're going to tell me that the Commies in China are really closet capitalists, right?

Who's better off? By the way, when did I say anything about ''eating the rich''? And you can tell Thatcher that according to Cheney, ''Reagan proved the deficits don't matter''. Somehow, that thinking ran us out of money.

That pretty much shoots your entire premise where it belongs. Right up your ignorant ass. And you call me an idiot? Hilarious.

Pareto's picture

Have you been to a healthcare facility in Canada.  yeah.  Its awesome.  WHEN YOU CAN GET IN!  Moreover, every health care authority in Canada is broke, and are on unsustainable budget paths.  50 cents of every tax dollar goes to health.  1/2!!  and they still can't get it right.  There is nothing free about health care in Canada, and if you are recommending modeling US care after Canada's, you might want to think about that.  Canada doesn't even promote competition!  Its overpriced, and the quality (unless you think waiting 6 months for an MRI examnination is awesome service - ass clown), relative to what is paid, is woefully inadequate.  And why would I tell Thatcher anything?  Reagan INCREASED the size and scope of government.  One need only to look at Federal accumulation of debt to see that.

Your problem is (I think I figured it out), is that you're pissed off at the world because you can't enjoy the lifestyle you want, so, you resort to the classic dickhead knckledragging, crabs in a bucket mentaility of "well if I can't have what I want, well, fuck it, then nobody gets what they want either."  there's a real winning formula for success.  Keep everybody down and at the same level, without any incentive to do fuck all but the bare minimum.  Trouble is, this doesn't work either.  The prospect of somebody taking half your shit for somebody else's benefit is a dead end.  Kills incentives, discourages work, and imposes permanent capital dislocation and demoralization costs.  By the way.  Nobody gives a shit that I double posted, except of course, you.  Econ 101.  this isn't complicated.  There isn't, nor can there ever be, a Free Lunch!  Learn it.  Love it.  Live it.