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Bill Gross Takes On Paul Ryan

Tyler Durden's picture


By now the broad media (where suddenly everyone has become a political expert... math - not so much) has said everything there is to say about Paul Ryan and about 4-5x more than necessary. Now it is time for the pundits. First in line, PIMCO's Bill Gross who just tweeted the following...

The flip side to that question is, of course, very simple: why pay any taxes at all?

With US tax revenues at roughly half of total spending, and declining every day, meaning the balance has to be funded by debt issuance, aren't we just splitting hairs here? Just go the whole hog and collect zero taxes. After all based on recent bizarro logic, the resulting global crisis would guarantee demand for "safe haven" US bonds for centuries to come, even as America effectively collects no tax revenue in perpetuity.

Also, what a better way to test trickle down economics and MMT at the same time.

That way everyone will be happy, including Bill, whose bonds in inventory will be monetized by the Fed day after day, as quite soon there will be no-one else left to buy.


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Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:10 | 2701265 malikai
malikai's picture

That way everyone will be happy, including Bill, whose bonds in inventory will be monetized by the Fed day after day, as quite soon there will be no-one else left.


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:18 | 2701295 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

I thought we were there already.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:26 | 2701333 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

bonds may be the greatest bubble of all time. why bother to collect taxes? taxes put crimp on spending and spending doesn't allow the markets to grow. instead of taxes let the gov via fed QE itself rather than ponzi st. why not? at least this will stave off the zombie uprising a bit longer. later they will QE to the people, including and especially the unemployed. why not? it's not like any of these people or their status quo malfunctioning systems make a scintilla of sense. 

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:38 | 2701397 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

While I'm no fan of the GOP (or politicians in general) at least Ryan looks like he has a somewhat viable plan to back up his rhetoric, Gross. Your buddies in the DNC have completely stonewalled this plan in Congress because it reduces government control. Have you got a better plan, or just the sour grapes?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:46 | 2701432 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Viable plan? Build up supply and they will come. He's a Jack Kemp lover.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:50 | 2701729 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

"He's a Jack Kemp lover" may be more true that you know since he used to be tight with Jack In The Closet. 

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 19:09 | 2702340 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, lets see here...yesterday Ryan was nothing short of the anti-christ in human form according to left wing MSM pundits, who dutifully called up the flying monkeys of Kos to land on the pages of ZH.

Today its PimpCo's boss (and a subordinate) seeing a "real problem" with LESS taxation, lower deficits, lower debt...thus lower debt issuance and profit for him.

Why, theres almost like some sort of symbiotic relationship here ;-)


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:48 | 2701443 Hohum
Hohum's picture

It might be more viable if he left taxes at current rates.  Mr. Ryan is basically another fool who thinks cutting taxes for the wealthy will spur on prosperity.  It won't, but it might inflate stocks a bit.  Tax cuts for lower incomes, of course, principally benefit the People's Republic of China.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:40 | 2701681 LooseLee
LooseLee's picture

Yea. Cut taxes for the warmongers who will continue to bankrupt us with empire and nation building nonsense. Chicken Littles are what they are in essence and at heart....

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:58 | 2701760 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture


We should all be willing to pay higher taxes, so the bond market benefits, then?!?!


Tue, 08/14/2012 - 09:27 | 2703481 ATM
ATM's picture

Actually he's talking about cutting the marginal rates while also closing the bullshit loopholes (only some of them of course). The Feds tax take actually stays the same or goes up.

This talk of "cutting taxes" is utter leftist bullshit. It's called leveling the playing field but Ryan's plan doesn't fix anything. That's either because he doesn't really believe in fixing anything or because he understands the political reality that you cannot actually propose a real fix and win an election. 

Whichever you choose to believe is up to you.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:07 | 2701506 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



The firm name should be PIMPco with el-erian pushing for more QE (MONEY)for itself yet flashback (not that there's anything wrong with cutting spending we have to but talk about hypocritical out of one side of his mouth he clamor's for more Socialism for himself ) ...

"Austerity? Yes, say Bill Gross, a Republican, and Mohamed El-Erian, a Democrat, the chief investment officers of the giant bond fund Pimco. They support curbs on entitlement spending."


Exercises In Supreme Hypocrisy: Bill Gross Edition

"Well, Gross should know all about special interests and bribery. A casual check indicates that the PIMCO boss himself donated $6,900 to future present Barack Obama in 2008, and another $4,000 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign committee. What was the IRR on that investment Mr. Gross? Just how many special Treasury JVs is PIMCO part of these days, and how much taxpayer money ends up in the Newport Beach bond manager daily, to simply trade side-by-side with the Federal Reserve and front-ru(i)n the broader investing public? Was Obama the cheapest politician you could buy?

We were so appalled with the result of this query that we decided against checking further back in time to see just what the price of bribery for prior presidents was. However, we did check how much of a "special interest" PIMCO itself is - to our (lack of) surprise, Mr. Gross, your company has spent at least $431,101 to curry favor with assorted representatives of the government in precisely the very action whose daily occurrence you lament. In the face of the below table, can you please tell the American public how they are supposed to take you seriously ever again?"



"I'm Bill Gross And I Endorse Ron Paul For President"

The Rising Stock Market Could Get Obama Reelected



Mon, 08/13/2012 - 16:58 | 2701967 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Isn`t PIMCO owned by Allianz ? Which company is a pseudonym for dumb money locked into ridiculous European life insurance saving plan policies never to be payed out ? No wonder their American hofkasper executives can freely comment on anything.

Clowns supporting clowns, follow the money...

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:10 | 2701510 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

The GOP plan is the same old trickle down make the rich richer while demonizing and cheating the working poor and middle class who paid into Social Security and Medicare their whole lives. 

Plus, Paul Ryan looks a lot like Bugsy Siegel (see photo on the right in link below) . I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:11 | 2701564 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



"Whoa Dammit The GOP plan is the same old trickle down make the rich richer while demonizing and cheating the working poor and middle class who paid into Social Security and Madicare their whole lives. "

Actually what bernanke is doing is based on Marx's Theory of Reflexivity that's a leftist ideology

"Federal Reserve Chief Ben Bernanke believes that by pulling up stocks, the masses will feel richer and spend more on consumer goods, thus lifting up the economy. This is based on Karl Marx's reflexivity theory (George Soros essentially paraphrased Marx) that states by turning the small wheel (stocks), you can turn the big wheel (economy), which in turn will come back and turn up the small wheel (stocks). Bernanke subscribes to such a theory, and he wants QE to lift up the small wheel (stocks), which he hopes will lift up the big wheel (the economy)."

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:20 | 2702015 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Bugsy Siegel looks like a cool chap. I`d have hired him, not just for my accounts receivables. And if he had suggested I
keep just ten percent holding shares and get paid out profit tenfold then before, he surely looks far more trustworthy than any tax collector who puts it the other way round.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:31 | 2701642 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

here's a better plan for you......forget looking at dems or reps for an answer....if you haven't figured out their puppet strings are attached to the same puppet master then there is no hope for a real solution.........btw the real solution involves pain and a lot of it

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:46 | 2701709 LooseLee
LooseLee's picture

Damn! If only we could have a small minority of serious minded people see the utter truth of this statement and act (or rather not act as inaction is the highest form of action) from it. Small minds, unfortunately, are extremely insecure and fearful and therfore must identify with something larger than themselves. The idea of Dems and Reps is an illusion and the truth of the matter is in seeing what they actually are and refusing to participate in it. BTW same process goes for any 'idea' that separates people....

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:48 | 2701407 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

I came to this site just over a year ago with the intention of spreading the progressive revolution to one of the few bastions of libertarian ignorance. Over that period, the number of progressive and left-leaning comments and articles has risen dramatically to the point at which we seriously threaten the libertarian status quo. Whereas for most this site’s history, anti-union or anti-welfare comments would have been considered the norm, they are now hammered with down arrows.  I predict that by the end of this year, the progressive revolution will have fully taken over Zerohedge, and libertarians will have to find somewhere else to post their insolent nonsense. I will continue the march to promote the virtues of central planning and state-enforced controls on the movement of peoples, goods and services, because I know that this is the only path to proseperity, peace and liberty. 

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:55 | 2701476 malikai
malikai's picture

You didn't troll this place on your own. Somebody else helped you!

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:00 | 2701498 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I was frightened that you were going to say, "so my work here is done."

Keep posting since no one here can match your sense of humor.  Many have tried but you take the cake (but you have to share it with the have-nots)

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:48 | 2701720 LooseLee
LooseLee's picture

See my comment above yours. You are the essence of the misguided....

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 16:11 | 2701814 Carl Spackler
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I will continue the march to promote the virtues of central planning and state-enforced controls on the movement of peoples, goods and services, because I know that this is the only path to proseperity, peace and liberty. 


Central planning leads to liberty.  Nice.  Only an Obama would tout such utter hogwash.


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 16:18 | 2701828 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Hell will freeze over first.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:11 | 2702018 TheFourthStooge-ing
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MillionDollarBonus_ said:

I will continue the march to promote the virtues of central planning and state-enforced controls on the movement of peoples, goods and services, because I know that this is the only path to proseperity, peace and liberty.

Now that is a beautifully crafted statement, the perfect capstone to a comment which is an instant classic.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:10 | 2701266 JimboWHO
JimboWHO's picture

Gross is a common liberal.  No surprise here at all.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:13 | 2701279 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

If by common liberal you mean highly educated and very smart, then I agree with you. He does seem to have done very well for himself over a long period of time in a highly competitive environment, don't you think?

I mean really, don't you think? At all?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:17 | 2701288 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

Pablo Escobar did seem to have done very well for himself over a long period of time in a highly competitive environment too.

Gross did beg to be bailed out 4 years ago. Now he should just apologize or shut up.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:24 | 2701324 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

getting lucky and riding the biggest bubble of all time ? man that takes skill. sarc

he still has to get his exit timing right. 

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:31 | 2701359 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

my favorite story is when Pablo was hiding in the mountains he burned $1M in bricks of US dollars to keep his daughter warm. Try doin' that with your PMs-ZHers

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:34 | 2701375 malikai
malikai's picture

My favourite story is the one about how Mr. Escobar went from "our guy" to "bad guy".

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:34 | 2701374 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

And where is old Pablo now? Oh, it seems he didn't get very old after all. Brilliant.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:38 | 2701395 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

yeah-but he lived the life 10000 average men wouldn't add up to.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:43 | 2701410 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Lived a great life? Killed how many, then died like the dog he was. Somehting to aspire to for you I guess, but not for most. You set the bar just above the dirt that rodents piss on.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:38 | 2701396 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

All the fucktards got bailed out in twotgousand eight. even goldman. although word is, goldman sachs has a substancial physical position in gold 

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:17 | 2701289 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

he didnt build his career. someone else did.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:20 | 2701303 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

That tired bit of nonsense again? As usual, you Republicans...sorry, Libertarians are always the last to know that Obie didn't say that. It was what you heard after what he said was edited for context for political gain. You know, the kind of stuff Fox does all the time.

But then, you didn't hear about that because you didn't want to. You;d rather believe in the lie.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:21 | 2701313 Comay Mierda
Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:25 | 2701331 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

And what is it about ''roads and bridges'' that you keep refusing to hear?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:28 | 2701341 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture


and here is confirmation on how he feels about individual success

Obama: "A New Vision Of An America In Which Prosperity Is Shared"

Maybe when he messaged Michael Phelps he should have told him to give his golds to other racers so they can feel like they succeeded too.  After all, he didnt win those medals, someone else did

or maybe he should send a gold to the company that built the pool he trained in. cuz they made him successful

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:30 | 2701356 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Given your intellectual laziness, just skip ahead to the 1:40 mark. Apparently to this dumb shit, Phelps didn't do that alone either.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:35 | 2701380 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

angry commies make me laugh. you are too funny

you are not successful in life. and you want others to give you what they have earned.

you must masturbate to obama speeches

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:44 | 2701421 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

That's all you have left? So soon? Typical right winger. And just when I set my expectations even lower, here you come along.

Tue, 08/14/2012 - 03:51 | 2703132 Religion Explained
Religion Explained's picture

right winger, as in facist? You're a moron ... here, go educate yourself and don't come back till I tell ya, stimpy, you blithering eeeeeeeeeeediot ...

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:00 | 2701490 Pareto
Pareto's picture

"Intellectual laziness".  Obama's message was/is abundantly clear (even though many of us have taken the "you didn't build that" to extreme......for shaaaahurrr), everything you have is a result of the State!  I don't know how you can interpret that speech in Virginia in any other way, quite frankly.  And as far as intellectual laziness is concerned, do the math.  $16T has done nothing; an anemic growth rate at best.  And please, please.......please don't say, like all you leftists continue to do as if it is the only fall back argument that you have, that "HE INHERITED the greatest recession since the 1930's".  Obama owns this period.  Nobody else, and he has effectively doubled the debt of all previous POTUS before him.  Bottom line, Obama is a socialist, and socialism does not work, because it cannot work.  It creates all the wrong and perverse incentives, which are unproductive.  Just ask the Bernank, how well NIRP, or ZIRP is working...same reatrded policies, same result.  Nothing.  Message:  There is No Free Lunch!  So, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results......thats intellectual laziness.  Finally, one thing that is for sure.  On the $16T debt, $5T deficit, 8.4% unemployment (not counting those that have said "fuck it"), well, I didn't build it.  cheers

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:10 | 2701555 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

No, he didn't double the debt all by himself. Factually wrong again. And somehow, after Bush and Reagan ripped the debt higher, it was all Congress' fault, or you just ignore it because you voted for those losers.

84% of the debt on the books when Obie got in was put there by Reagan and Bush Jr. (You can check it, but I know you won't. I did) But it wasn't a concern until now when a Democrat is in office?

Nice that you can absolve Congress and their Constitutional ''power of the purse'' from any responsibility for the rising debt now, especially in the absence of a budget written by Obama.

And yes, YES, he did inherit the biggest mess since the Deprssion, well under way before he parked his ass in the White House. And yes, that matters!

You dumb shits, you fucking morons that voted for Bush and Cheney, twice!, then want to ignore the vast damage they did and blame it all on the next guy? Classic.

Don't forget the first trillion dollar deficit was signed by Bush! Add that to his totals and take it off Obama's.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 16:06 | 2701798 Pareto
Pareto's picture

hey shit for brains!

Nobody here is endorsing bush or cheney, or any other government twit for that matter.  Thats the point!  Government doesn't fucking work!  Moreover, nobody is blaming Obama!  But, the bottom line, is that he has and continues to endorse "free lunch" policies.  I don't care what you want to call me, Krugmanite Keynesianism is a recipe for disaster!  Just ask Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Denmark, Belgium, Ireland, Britain, and every other country in the developed world.  You want to make claim to "eating the rich", go ahead, but, you won't find any here.  They've already left.  Like Thatcher says, "socialism's a great idea until you run out of other people's money." idiot.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 16:06 | 2701799 Pareto
Pareto's picture

hey shit for brains!

Nobody here is endorsing bush or cheney, or any other government twit for that matter.  Thats the point!  Government doesn't fucking work!  Moreover, nobody is blaming Obama!  But, the bottom line, is that he has and continues to endorse "free lunch" policies.  I don't care what you want to call me, Krugmanite Keynesianism is a recipe for disaster!  Just ask Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Denmark, Belgium, Ireland, Britain, and every other country in the developed world.  You want to make claim to "eating the rich", go ahead, but, you won't find any here.  They've already left.  Like Thatcher says, "socialism's a great idea until you run out of other people's money." idiot.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:04 | 2701986 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

You double posted something that wasn't even good enough for a single effort. And if you don't think Obama's being blamed, you're as willfully ignorant as can be.

Canada has government run, ''Socialistic health care'' and a lot higher taxes. Who's better off? Look around the world at places like Northern Europe, run much like Canada. Are we better off than they are?

Let's go further and see that the Commie and Socialist countries have all the money, and the biggest capitalists of all, us, keep begging them for loans. I know, you're going to tell me that the Commies in China are really closet capitalists, right?

Who's better off? By the way, when did I say anything about ''eating the rich''? And you can tell Thatcher that according to Cheney, ''Reagan proved the deficits don't matter''. Somehow, that thinking ran us out of money.

That pretty much shoots your entire premise where it belongs. Right up your ignorant ass. And you call me an idiot? Hilarious.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 18:08 | 2702177 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Have you been to a healthcare facility in Canada.  yeah.  Its awesome.  WHEN YOU CAN GET IN!  Moreover, every health care authority in Canada is broke, and are on unsustainable budget paths.  50 cents of every tax dollar goes to health.  1/2!!  and they still can't get it right.  There is nothing free about health care in Canada, and if you are recommending modeling US care after Canada's, you might want to think about that.  Canada doesn't even promote competition!  Its overpriced, and the quality (unless you think waiting 6 months for an MRI examnination is awesome service - ass clown), relative to what is paid, is woefully inadequate.  And why would I tell Thatcher anything?  Reagan INCREASED the size and scope of government.  One need only to look at Federal accumulation of debt to see that.

Your problem is (I think I figured it out), is that you're pissed off at the world because you can't enjoy the lifestyle you want, so, you resort to the classic dickhead knckledragging, crabs in a bucket mentaility of "well if I can't have what I want, well, fuck it, then nobody gets what they want either."  there's a real winning formula for success.  Keep everybody down and at the same level, without any incentive to do fuck all but the bare minimum.  Trouble is, this doesn't work either.  The prospect of somebody taking half your shit for somebody else's benefit is a dead end.  Kills incentives, discourages work, and imposes permanent capital dislocation and demoralization costs.  By the way.  Nobody gives a shit that I double posted, except of course, you.  Econ 101.  this isn't complicated.  There isn't, nor can there ever be, a Free Lunch!  Learn it.  Love it.  Live it.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 16:27 | 2701865 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

So if trillion+ deficits are bad why isn't Obama doing anything to lower them? Raise taxes? They will spend even MORE!! Obama is Bush on steroids on just about everything you liberals hated Bush for.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:21 | 2702058 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Are you defending Bush?

Actually, I hated him for being a total fuck up, blowing off the intel officer that brought him a memo stating ''bin Laden determined to strike inside the U.S.'', starting two losing wars that cost way more than he said they would, blowing the deficit into the trillions for the first time, signing statements, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and all his lying, but that's just me, I guess.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:37 | 2701391 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Obummer hasn't built a single road, let alone a bridge, nor have any of his minions underneath him.

Are you always this detached from reality?

The funny thing is, the credit for "standing on the shoulders of giants" all comes from capitalism and the division of labor that has allowed us to efficiently produce more than we consume. It is this same pool of wealth that supports the parasitic class d.b.a "government."

Oh, please notice I used a lower-case form of capitalism, so please don't try and form a rebuttal against the facade called "Capitalism."

Government, creates NOTHING. All it does is to consume in an effort to take credit for the hard work of others who prosper in spite of these depredations.

Look around you and you'll find that even the original roads are older than the gangs claiming ownership of them. I wonder, just who would ever think to build a road without forcing others to pay for it? (hint: the same people who created the world's commercial legal system (which is also older than governments))

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:54 | 2701468 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Goverment creates nothing? You mean, like the internet that brought us all together for these happy chats?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:04 | 2701521 ms1408
ms1408's picture

"The government" can't invent things, only individuals can. Are you saying the scientists who invented the internet couldn't have done so without the initiation of force? 

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:05 | 2701527 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

oh that tired old line, eh?  lol thanks gubment.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:43 | 2701413 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

While it is true we all rely on the underlying efforts of others to provide the infrastructure upon which we succeed or fail, it is still up to the individual to succeed or fail when starting a business. If all success were truly the result of others' efforts, we should immediately end SNAP and every other welfare program. Surely everyone on welfare can succeed on his or her own, right? They just have to let someone else do it for them and pocket the profits. Since I'm not as wealthy as Soros, clearly I've been deprived of what is rightfully mine! Why didn't Soros do it for me?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:26 | 2701334 Dolar in a vortex
Dolar in a vortex's picture

Of course you're right and Romney basically killed that woman with his bare hands too!

/sarcasm - for those who don't recognize it (Obama voters)

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:33 | 2701361 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

This is the context my brainwashed friend: he made very clear that he is a collectivist. He think individuals are nothing without the help from government. Instead of recognizing the harm government does to individuals and businesses, he instead thinks a big government is required. Required for a strong economy, required for freedom, required for happyness. The exact opposite is true.


That is the lie you have to face.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:45 | 2701427 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Plug your friend back into the matrix. He sounds like such a dim bulb, however, that I doubt he'd even make a good battery.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:23 | 2701608 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Actually no.

Listened to the whole speech several times.

Something you haven't by your defence of the indefensible.

Obummer meant exactly as most ZH's understood it.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:57 | 2701483 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"highly educated and very smart" - this conjunction is a non-sequitur. And, if Bill was really smart he'd keep silent and out of sight  like a good little Ponzi crony (Jon Corzine, anyone?).

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:01 | 2701488 JimboWHO
JimboWHO's picture

Education and Liberalism don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive.  Lots of educated Lefties running around.

Gross and The Left lost the tax debate a generation or more ago. 

You Statists amuse me in that you still don't realize our deficits are the result of decades of poorly constructed social programs designed by bought and paid for politicians.

We are all taxed quite enough, thank you very much.



Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:51 | 2701734 LooseLee
LooseLee's picture

Having done well in a system that requires conformity to mediocrity is not 'success' in my opinion....The negation of 'systems' is the only freedom....

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:20 | 2701308 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Thats right, he is just as big of bullshitter as anyone.

who the fuck is he kidding ? US bonds dont trade on fundamentals obviosly. anyone can see that. 

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:28 | 2701346 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Gross is a Reagan Repub.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:32 | 2701367 Cow
Cow's picture

Gross is a lib donor to Obama.


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:12 | 2701273 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Bill Gross...LOL.  The tweet king,

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:12 | 2701276 TwoJacks
TwoJacks's picture

the Fed has already moved from lender of last resort to the position of lender of first resort. they might as well make lender of only resort

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:35 | 2701656 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I'm sure the Fed has an exit plan.

Your 201k is going to be forced to buy up the junk UST's on their balance sheet.

Why not,they did it with the SS 'trust fund'.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:15 | 2701284 drchris
drchris's picture

There are actually people who believe raising taxes is as effective as cutting spending.  They can't pass a remedial math class, but they exist.  

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:58 | 2701492 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Even better, they believe that they don't end up paying for it in the end.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:16 | 2701286 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

why pay any taxes at all?

I know it is meant to be sarcastic but actually agree with this.

ps: gross kin suck it bitchez

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:24 | 2701320 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

but how is that fireman in your town gonna buy his bimbo wife that new GMC Yukon Denali if you don't pay taxes? or how is that local cop-like the one down the street from me-going to put in a $50K inground pool like he just did this spring at his 3400 sq ft house?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:33 | 2701372 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

the fedgub can print money, states and municipalities can't. the federal income tax is a regressive, invasive burden. billionaires don't pay income taxes only working people do and at a much higher rate which is bullshit. besides, the faster the currency collapses the better imo.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:42 | 2701409 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

and property taxes that have not plunged with the value of your home is what-fair? actually ZH had a good graph up the other day that the affluent in this country pay an inordinantly high amount of taxes. that "tax the undertaxed rich bullshit" is fed by marxist class warfare idiots like Obummer.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:53 | 2701465 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

u r funny. in your world the poor, who own nothing, aren't paying their share, while the rich, who own everything, should pay less. ugh.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:55 | 2701475 pods
pods's picture

Between the hidden taxes of the states/town, etc and the issuing debt like, well, a federal government, we are dying a slow death.

Look around almost anywhere.  The people are broken and do not know why.

The reason is that the harder they work, they quicker they are falling behind.  That makes life less than comfortable, and when they realize that they just cannot pull forward demand anymore due to there being zero chance of increasing their income, depression sets in.  

Amerika has a morphed into a quicksand economy.

Printing government funding would be at least a transparent way of seeing the cost of governments, and would allow the ants to prepare while the grasshoppers become fatter, drunker and stupider (Forget it, he's rolling).

As it is now, the grasshoppers use the guns of government to take from the ants.


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:00 | 2701497 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Printing government funding would be at least a transparent way of seeing the cost of governments...


Exactly! The way it is now they force us to pay for wars and shit by taking what little we can get and also have to pay interest on money which they just farking printed as homage to the bankers!

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:01 | 2701507 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Then why do they continue to support it, by action and by inaction?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:13 | 2701572 pods
pods's picture

If things were transparent, manipulation would not be possible.  You would see how much was spent each year.  

Now we have funny accounting, etc. 

And people love to see the sticker price, not the total.

Ex:  Cell phone plan that is $49.99 a month.  People like that.  They do not like seeing the bill for $68.49 a month.  But the $49.99 is what is in their head.

I always ask what the cost is, not the bullshit number they pimp out on the idiot box. What is the number printed on the bill.

Just multiply that all over every single facet of american life.

We are masters of self delusion


0 G trans fat.

People see that and think there is no trans fat.  Reality is that there is less than 0.49 G of trans fat per serving.

Nobody really wants the truth. The truth is ugly and uncomforting.

Now lies, they can be whatever you make them.


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 20:17 | 2702505 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

pods said:

Just multiply that all over every single facet of american life.

We are masters of self delusion


0 G trans fat.

People see that and think there is no trans fat.  Reality is that there is less than 0.49 G of trans fat per serving.

Serving size: 1 G

Nobody really wants the truth. The truth is ugly and uncomforting.

That's why only liars win the presidency.

Now lies, they can be whatever you make them.

...and, by God, those lies are still Made In America, and are our biggest remaining export.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:43 | 2701414 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

You must live in Cali.  Cops around me are lucky to pull 30k.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:50 | 2701454 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

IL- any state -like NY,CA,OH etc (or municipality contained within said state) that's F-ed financially pays their civil servants big bucks/benis/fat pension @ 50 Y.O.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:08 | 2701547 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

You're delusional! There are no 50 year old cops! /sarc

Actually, the municipal governments try to kick the cops out (they cost more than they generate in return, DUH!), but many try to stay on as long they can, nowhere else would pull in the same salary. And the pensions are beyond fat, they are supermorbidly obese. I have a family member who works as a civilian in a precinct, you would not believe the shit that goes on there. Latest thing I heard, they're whining about being asked to carry a weapon while off duty - but they get overtime for mandatory weapons training.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:16 | 2701290 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

No had they freaking controlled spending in the first place, Dems, Repubs it wouldn't matter.

But they didn't and now the trainwreck we have fiscally and politically there is no way they can fix it.

Screw taxes and screw out of control politicians and the bankers that back them.


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:01 | 2701505 pods
pods's picture

To be blunt, they increased spending (debt) because debt must keep expanding exponentially for our system to exist.

It does not matter what it is spent on, as long as the debt gets issued.
That is why all national elections are meaningless.  Because you are merely choosing the group that will spend the money how you want it spent.

But the debt will expand, whether private or public, aggregate debt must expand.  You can take that to the fractionally reserved bank.


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:17 | 2701291 billwilson
billwilson's picture

Ryan + Romney will produce an Obama landslide once the old dumb southern rural white folks (the last remmaining core GOP constituency) figure out that Ryan has a plan to screw them. Florida goes Dem, and so do a whole bunch of other states. Epic Fail by Romney ... but given how he has run his campaign so far, no surprise.

There are still ways to reform and eventually fix the economy but unfortunately neither the Dems nor the GOP nor the American people are willing (as of yet) to implement them. Oh well ... and the US $ as a reserve currency gives the US far too much rope ... menaing the day of reckoning will probably come too late.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:19 | 2701299 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

i sometimes question how much the repugs really want to win if they are running that pair of boobs.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:26 | 2701335 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I don't get this Ryan pick either- doesn't appeal to the southern crackas,looks kind of Jew-y, not a true tea-bagger.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:35 | 2701383 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Apparently, you dont "get" much around here. Are you just trolling?


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:51 | 2701459 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Go rescue a fascist, why don't you.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:29 | 2701353 Bob
Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:31 | 2701362 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hey Buzz...

No shit eh?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:24 | 2701323 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Once I saw you use the term "Epic" I knew you were way smarter than all us folk.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:27 | 2701345 drchris
drchris's picture

There was just a lengthy article on ZH that showed Ryan's plan has very little nominal effect at all.  It takes some money out of medicade (NOT MEDICARE) and reduces the impact on the debt in the long term:

The end result is that this doesn't solve the crisis and it doesn't screw anyone.  

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:41 | 2701403 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Only Dr Paul had a serious plan

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:42 | 2701406 RationalPrepper
RationalPrepper's picture

Yes, but the democrats and the main-stream media claim it will kill seniors, while the GOP claims it will cure our deficit ills.  That's all the matters for the purposes of the election.  The lines have been drawn...once the election is over a gust of strong wind will blur the line, as usual, and we will still have bloated entitlements and soaring deficits.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:57 | 2701482 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

If the old folks in Florida ever find out that Obamacare - supported by up-for-reelection Sen. William Nelson - voted to cut $700 billion from Medicare, both Obama and Nelson will be unemployed come next January. Talk about throwing the old folks under the bus! Obamacare blew it as far as timing goes, because the Medicare options must be selected before the election. The oldies will - I hope - be made painfully aware of how they're being screwed by the likes of Obama, Nelson and Ditzy Wasserman-Schultz. It depends, of course, on whether or not the RINOs really want to win.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:18 | 2701294 SaveTheGreenback
SaveTheGreenback's picture

Oh? shut up and just collect your expense ratio....Let El-Erian do the talking...

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:31 | 2701360 Cow
Cow's picture

El-Erian is a big Dem/Obama donor along with Gross.


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 16:10 | 2701810 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Makes perfect sense. They built their lives on the backs of future generations. Rich want to get richer taking more from the poor.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:18 | 2701298 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It seems to me (a lunatic and all) that we could have lower deficits and lower taxes..........

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:20 | 2701307 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

I must be a lunatic too.



Does Government Have a Revenue or Spending Problem?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:19 | 2701302 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

Lower taxes doesn't mean higher deficit, just like higher taxes doesn't mean lower deficit. Less expenses is what is needed but then how can Gross be bailed out if the government stops spending money it doesn't have.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:34 | 2701379 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Gross doesn't need to frontrun any QE. He just needs things to go bad in Europe temporarily, so foreign investors pile into UST & MBS.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:22 | 2701304 virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

Romney sealed his loss with "Radica Ryan".. he he. The money is already spent and NOW he wants to cut spending. A few decades and trillion too late.  He is just a BIG BS'er if you ask old virgil.. ALOT of Hot AIR.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:02 | 2701983 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

You've bought into the MSM clap trap with the radical crap which makes you full of a lot of hot air. Ryan is no more radical then Obama is. However, Ryan is from the Bush W era, which is unfortunate. Both SUCK.

 And to make statements against Ryan as a BIG BS'er is laughable. THEY ALL ARE BIG BS'ers on BOTH SIDES.


The only question is, if you haven't figured it out is, do you want a bullet to the head by democrats, or be gased to death by republicans in a slower way.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:20 | 2701309 chet
chet's picture

"what a better way to test trickle down economics"

I find it mystifying that people think that "supply side economics" is still some untested theory hanging out there.  The investor class (the real super-rich one) has been keeping progressively more of their money for 30 years.  How has it worked out to let the investor class keep more of their money?

Wages for everyone else are lower than they were in the late sixties, our jobs are in China, the markets are complete bullshit, money has corrupted nearly every institution public and private, and we're flirting with a new depression.

Folks, we've been cutting taxes for rich people since the early 1980's.  It's been tested now for decades.  These are the results.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:25 | 2701321 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture



I guarantee no one from the .1% top earners is on this board, but you'll get their mindfucked pissboys disagreeing with you.  It's truly pathetic.



Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:35 | 2701381 drchris
drchris's picture

The group that is typically used in debate are the top 400 earners.  Those are the top .0001%.  

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:37 | 2701388 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The best clawback for the looting that occurred is a wealth tax.... aka a real trickle down effect... Suddenly clipping tax-free Munis coupons at 3% ain't so attractive....

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:27 | 2701625 pods
pods's picture

Although that may work in theory, that is never going to be implemented.  And I for one do not want to give the federal behemoth any more power.


Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:46 | 2701433 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Maybe some of us see how this divide and conquer strategy is used to soak the middle and lower classes by using the faulty logic of taxation (of others) is good.

Maybe some of us take the time to understand that to fight an incoherent fight not only fails to engage "the enemy," it actually supports them.

But go ahead, mischaracterize it all, and see where that gets you. You might believe it looks "better," but if you look long enough, all you'll get for your efforts is "bitter."

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:07 | 2701536 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Supply-side economics can work from the financial aspect only if the regulatory state does not strangle the economy. Suggesting that supply-side economics alone is solely responsible for our current state is absurd. Consider how many new rules and regulations that hamper businesses there are now compared to thirty years ago. One might as well wonder why a truck with 1000 HP and weighing 8000 pounds isn't as fast as a car with 500 HP that weighs 4000 pounds.

Heck, even if the taxes on corporations were cut to zero, supply-side wouldn't work if there were regulations prohibiting actual production of goods and services. Supply-side economics has not been tested for decades on its own merits; other factors have changed.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:14 | 2701574 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Sure, of course it never has anything to do with growing government. It never has anything to do with Government encroachment and largese to you. It's always just the "Rich" to you. 

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 16:16 | 2701820 chet
chet's picture

The government is too big, and the deficit most definitely has to do with the spending side.  But people like Romney and Ryan and their entire party will never tell you what they plan to do about spending.  They'll never give you a specific cut and never follow through. 

What they will get real specific about and follow through on is cutting taxes, which always disproportionately benefits a segment of society which hasn't done this well since the Gilded Age.

I don't mind the idea of everyone's taxes going down, but in our current situation, with the Bush tax cuts barely 10 years old, and us with bigger fish to fry, new cuts are not even within my top 10 priorities.  But it is all that Republicans will fucking talk about.  And it is the ONLY thing they actually care about following through on.  They will gladly raise spending across the board while they do it.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:25 | 2701618 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

In a fairy-tale mixed economy, say ours in the 1950s, the very wealthy are also the most productive, so taxing them would be a net-loss for the economy.

In a nightmare mixed economy, say ours today, the productivity of the very wealthy is massively distorted and may even be net-negative.

This is what people fail to realize: the producitivity of wealth is not a constant. However, people also fail to realize that we are far, far beyond the point where taxation is anything but window-dressing. We passed that point somewhere between the LBJ and Reagan years.

Go ahead, tax the top 1% at 100%, even if you somehow managed to collect all of it, we would back in the same fiscal situation by the end of FY2012 because spending has not been addressed. In other words: other people's money has run out. And, as pods astutely observed, spending cannot and will not ever be addressed - voluntarily.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:22 | 2701310 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

TAX the ultra rich, they have all the money since they have been looting for 3 decades.  I swear I dont get why so many are happy being their piss boys.  Fuck the rich, they dont give 2 shits about you, why do people defend them.  TAx those fuckers.


Ryna?  Ryan?  is nothing but a math challenged stooge.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:47 | 2701430 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

ZH had a graph that showed the "rich"(whatever the F that is) pay like 60%+ of the taxes as it is to support the welfare queens and subsidized farmers and solar companies and all the other boondoggles so TAx the rest of the fuckers that pay NO taxes at all.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:55 | 2701474 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

It's sad to see you don't have the tiniest clue about how the world works.

Taxation see, well it flows from the poor TO the rich. But hey, go ahead and fantasize about how things would work if you were dictator.

I'll just point out that in a world without taxation, the rich would have to actually produce value in order to remain rich. Instead, they've got this slushfund known as "government revenue" to ensure their gate-keepers protect them at all costs.

But for some reason, you believe their gate-keepers are your "regulators," when you haven't done dick for their careers, and they could give two shits about you.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 16:09 | 2701806 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Demanding more than your fair share is worse than not paying your fair share.  So let's tax the shit out of the mooches, like Bloomberg does to cigarettes, to make sure we get less of them.


If you drop out of school and do drugs, you'll be poor and bankrupt the country. This is clearly not "Sustainable". To protect the 99% from the bottom 1%, it is a moral imperative we stop the mooches. 

It is our duty to stop them from hurting themselves, and others, by taxing their bad choices. This will be a deterrent and indirectly reward the productive people for making good life choices, thereby increasing their numbers, and benefitting society. If you really want "Social justice" there it is, sucka.

The top 1% already pay 40% of everything. Under Carter it was only 19%, because the top tax rate was 70 percent. Doesn't work. It's Munchhausen by Proxy.



Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:05 | 2701994 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

How about we just give permission for anyone to demand higher taxes from those that have more? I think you have more than me crawldaddy. Pay up! Liberalism is a true mental disease.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:21 | 2701312 Dolar in a vortex
Dolar in a vortex's picture

Cut spending first pols.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:44 | 2701411 whisperin
whisperin's picture

That's why I'm Voting for Romney. Not that they WILL cut spending it's that I'm going to vote for anyone who MIGHT cut spending let alone kill a govt. program. I think think I'd fall over in a dead faint if we live to see somone actually reduce the size of govt. Obummer had his chance and it's an unmitigatted disaster and a treatise on why socialism is a worthless venue. Just look across the pond to the disaster that is Europe. Obummer want's that kind of shit for us. NO THANK YOU!

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:58 | 2701487 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Goddamn, the stupid, it burns!!!!

You're admittedly voting for a different flavor of Hopium, even though you know it will never materialize, all because "you have to do something!"

How about abandoning support of an evil SYSTEM? Ever consider that?

The only logical vote, is a vote for NOTA.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:12 | 2701566 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Out with the old POS, in with the new POS. Can anyone give me a link to where Romney says it's a good idea to allow a president to decide which Americans he can order killed? No trial, no jury, just kill, as in assasinate? That alone would be a big enough difference for me.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:22 | 2701316 digalert
digalert's picture

All this Ryan, Obamney, Romobama talk is just a distraction. Let's just cut to the chase, and ask Goldman Sachs who the next president will be.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:08 | 2702006 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

I did/ They told me is was some person named digalert.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:24 | 2701322 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I bet Paul Ryan at least tips his waitress.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:27 | 2701342 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

only if he's cute

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:10 | 2702012 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Obviously you know from experience. Did Barney Frank shaft you?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:42 | 2701408 Rusticus
Rusticus's picture

Lose by default, the lobbyist that's dining him picks up the tab and tip.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:25 | 2701329 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture



Neither major party is at all, in the slightest, eensy-weensiest bit serious about reducing the deficit.

They just have slightly differing takes on who our childrens' looted cash should be allocated to via the Central State.

Please get over yourselves, shills.  This is serious now.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:26 | 2701337 billwilson
billwilson's picture

Slash corporate welfare!!!

Cut the breaks for Big Ag, Big Oil, Big MIC, Big Ed ... all the supposed free enterprise proponents feeding at the public teat.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:11 | 2702020 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Slash all welfare.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:26 | 2701338 daxtonbrown
daxtonbrown's picture

The reason for the Reagan era low tax policy was not just to spur growth, but to Starve The Beast and keep government in check with tight purse strings. In that context it was brilliant strategy, which was circumvented by the Fed's ZIRP and willingness to print to infinity, enabling the debt. That's why Ron Paul is the only one on the right track to audit the Fed - it needs to be returned to a rules based algorithm if you aren't going to use gold to anchor it.

The Federal Reserve and all fiat central banks are by physics pushing on a string when they manipulate currency. Money is information, but Bernanke cannot ADD information to the system unless he is smarter than the system (zero evidence for that). What really results is not hyperinflation, but a Biflationary Depression.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:06 | 2701528 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Reagan ran up massive, for the day, deficits. I don't understand why people look back on his presidency as a model to follow.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:28 | 2701632 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Please remiond me: who initiates spending bills, Congress or the President? And who controlled the House back then? Democrats under Tip O'Neill. Who controlled the Senate? Republican RINOs like Bob Dole. What was the trend in deficits at the end of the Reagan presidency? Down, if I recall.

True, spending under Reagan was too high. He felt compelled to go along with the big spenders in Congress on domestic spending to get what he felt was needed to repair the damage done to the military, especially to the Navy, under Carter. The anticipated 'peace dividend' that was supposed to accompany the demise of the Soviet Union came after Reagan left office and disappeared into the vast Federal spending boondoggles of the ensuing decades.

Blaming deficits on presidents, alone - including Obama - is just wrong.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 17:16 | 2702037 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Good post Geezer with some common sense.

I have often wondered and occasionally posted on why people put so much emphasis on the President. In fact, less emphasis should be on government as a whole.

I think Republicans like to go back to Reagan because of the stark economic difference that appeared between the Carter and Reagan presidencies.

Its the same on the opposite spectrum. Democrats like to compare Clinton's presidency with that of George H.


Both sides manipulate the facts and mislead everyone.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:28 | 2701349 Cow
Cow's picture

In the 2008 election, Bill Gross gave $4,000 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign and $2,300 to Barack Obama.

He lives in Laguna Beach, CA

Helps to know this when listening to him.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:28 | 2701350 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Paul Ryan supported TARP, the war in Iraq and wants to make the Patriot Act permanent.  So basically he's a status quo statist.  What more could one expect?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:34 | 2701364 island
island's picture

If you are obese, the best plan to get healthier is to eat healthfully, exercise moderately, and reduce stress.

A similar multi-pronged approach is best for a society that has overconsumed and gotten obese on debt.  Reduce consumption (stop creating more debt), exercise moderately (tax more, and more fairly - but not excessively), and reduce stress (don't make life harder).  A steady balanced approach is the way to go - you eventually reach your goal, and have learned lessons on how to stay "fit."



Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:33 | 2701370 SaveTheGreenback
SaveTheGreenback's picture

Tax the rich?   Wow, some of you folks should work for the teleprompter in chief!  

LOL, the debts can never be paid off....

It's time (and been time) for massive liquidation and bancrupcy, the old fashioned way...

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:44 | 2701418 Agent P
Agent P's picture

If the United States does go through a good old fashioned bankruptcy, I sure hope they let GM manage it...just to be fair.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:37 | 2701382 You Didn't Buil...
You Didn't Build That's picture
9 Signs Your Pet is Depressed


I'll never figure out how ZH misses important news like this. If you love your pet you'll cut his "Twittering" down and turn off the MSM BS on TV. It's bad for their psyche and they get depressed. Plug in your pooch to ZH on the Big Screen so he can stay informed and not get so down.

Who doesn't love their pet?

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:37 | 2701385 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

Paul Ryan is just as much of a hot air machine as any of the other corporate shills masquerading as representatives of the general public.  Who gives a rat's ass about what any of them spew?

If you haven't learned by now that the very, very old adage about how you can tell when a politician is lying (his lips are moving) is based 100% in fact, you need to go back to kindergarten and relive your life, paying more attention to what politicians do after they're elected on your next time around.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:44 | 2701420 Totin
Totin's picture

That's BS man. In this country we have a choice of two idealogies. Obama and the Dems have moved this country in the wrong direction. Romney/Paul are our only hope of turning this beast around. We don't need the Democrats pouring even more gas on the fire - we can't just keep kicking the can down the road.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 14:49 | 2701445 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Nonsense. The choice is manufactured to make you believe there is an alternative. The two party political system is constructed to make you more mad at the other side than the systemic corruption and absolute looting of all citizens of the world.

Mon, 08/13/2012 - 15:10 | 2701518 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

Exactly, the illusion of a real choice because once the general public actually realizes to what huge extent they are being screwed with no real voice in the matter there might be civil unrest.  So, keep them watching American Idol and put up a few corporate shills for them to vote for every few years while smothering it all in big dose of subtle propaganda that they are too stupid, apathetic or uniformed to see through.  And, this is very,very important, be sure to keep them fighting amongst themselves with labels like "liberal" or "conservative" to maintain that illusion of real choice.

Here's that in a graphic:

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!