Bill Gross Takes On Paul Ryan

Tyler Durden's picture

By now the broad media (where suddenly everyone has become a political expert... math - not so much) has said everything there is to say about Paul Ryan and about 4-5x more than necessary. Now it is time for the pundits. First in line, PIMCO's Bill Gross who just tweeted the following...

The flip side to that question is, of course, very simple: why pay any taxes at all?

With US tax revenues at roughly half of total spending, and declining every day, meaning the balance has to be funded by debt issuance, aren't we just splitting hairs here? Just go the whole hog and collect zero taxes. After all based on recent bizarro logic, the resulting global crisis would guarantee demand for "safe haven" US bonds for centuries to come, even as America effectively collects no tax revenue in perpetuity.

Also, what a better way to test trickle down economics and MMT at the same time.

That way everyone will be happy, including Bill, whose bonds in inventory will be monetized by the Fed day after day, as quite soon there will be no-one else left to buy.

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malikai's picture

That way everyone will be happy, including Bill, whose bonds in inventory will be monetized by the Fed day after day, as quite soon there will be no-one else left.

Seriously.

Hype Alert's picture

I thought we were there already.

vast-dom's picture

bonds may be the greatest bubble of all time. why bother to collect taxes? taxes put crimp on spending and spending doesn't allow the markets to grow. instead of taxes let the gov via fed QE itself rather than ponzi st. why not? at least this will stave off the zombie uprising a bit longer. later they will QE to the people, including and especially the unemployed. why not? it's not like any of these people or their status quo malfunctioning systems make a scintilla of sense. 

Hugh_Jorgan's picture

While I'm no fan of the GOP (or politicians in general) at least Ryan looks like he has a somewhat viable plan to back up his rhetoric, Gross. Your buddies in the DNC have completely stonewalled this plan in Congress because it reduces government control. Have you got a better plan, or just the sour grapes?

 

http://roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/

whstlblwr's picture

Viable plan? Build up supply and they will come. He's a Jack Kemp lover.

Whoa Dammit's picture

"He's a Jack Kemp lover" may be more true that you know since he used to be tight with Jack In The Closet. 

nmewn's picture

Well, lets see here...yesterday Ryan was nothing short of the anti-christ in human form according to left wing MSM pundits, who dutifully called up the flying monkeys of Kos to land on the pages of ZH.

Today its PimpCo's boss (and a subordinate) seeing a "real problem" with LESS taxation, lower deficits, lower debt...thus lower debt issuance and profit for him.

Why, theres almost like some sort of symbiotic relationship here ;-)

 

Hohum's picture

It might be more viable if he left taxes at current rates.  Mr. Ryan is basically another fool who thinks cutting taxes for the wealthy will spur on prosperity.  It won't, but it might inflate stocks a bit.  Tax cuts for lower incomes, of course, principally benefit the People's Republic of China.

LooseLee's picture

Yea. Cut taxes for the warmongers who will continue to bankrupt us with empire and nation building nonsense. Chicken Littles are what they are in essence and at heart....

boogerbently's picture

C'mon,

We should all be willing to pay higher taxes, so the bond market benefits, then?!?!

 

ATM's picture

Actually he's talking about cutting the marginal rates while also closing the bullshit loopholes (only some of them of course). The Feds tax take actually stays the same or goes up.

This talk of "cutting taxes" is utter leftist bullshit. It's called leveling the playing field but Ryan's plan doesn't fix anything. That's either because he doesn't really believe in fixing anything or because he understands the political reality that you cannot actually propose a real fix and win an election. 

Whichever you choose to believe is up to you.

LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

The firm name should be PIMPco with el-erian pushing for more QE (MONEY)for itself yet flashback (not that there's anything wrong with cutting spending we have to but talk about hypocritical out of one side of his mouth he clamor's for more Socialism for himself ) ...

"Austerity? Yes, say Bill Gross, a Republican, and Mohamed El-Erian, a Democrat, the chief investment officers of the giant bond fund Pimco. They support curbs on entitlement spending."

 

Exercises In Supreme Hypocrisy: Bill Gross Edition

"Well, Gross should know all about special interests and bribery. A casual check indicates that the PIMCO boss himself donated $6,900 to future present Barack Obama in 2008, and another $4,000 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign committee. What was the IRR on that investment Mr. Gross? Just how many special Treasury JVs is PIMCO part of these days, and how much taxpayer money ends up in the Newport Beach bond manager daily, to simply trade side-by-side with the Federal Reserve and front-ru(i)n the broader investing public? Was Obama the cheapest politician you could buy?

We were so appalled with the result of this query that we decided against checking further back in time to see just what the price of bribery for prior presidents was. However, we did check how much of a "special interest" PIMCO itself is - to our (lack of) surprise, Mr. Gross, your company has spent at least $431,101 to curry favor with assorted representatives of the government in precisely the very action whose daily occurrence you lament. In the face of the below table, can you please tell the American public how they are supposed to take you seriously ever again?"

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/exercises-supreme-hypocrisy-bill-gross-edition

 

 

"I'm Bill Gross And I Endorse Ron Paul For President"

The Rising Stock Market Could Get Obama Reelected

 

 

TheGardener's picture

Isn`t PIMCO owned by Allianz ? Which company is a pseudonym for dumb money locked into ridiculous European life insurance saving plan policies never to be payed out ? No wonder their American hofkasper executives can freely comment on anything.

Clowns supporting clowns, follow the money...

Whoa Dammit's picture

The GOP plan is the same old trickle down make the rich richer while demonizing and cheating the working poor and middle class who paid into Social Security and Medicare their whole lives. 

Plus, Paul Ryan looks a lot like Bugsy Siegel (see photo on the right in link below) . I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

http://www.comicvine.com/bugsy-siegel/29-6176/

LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

"Whoa Dammit The GOP plan is the same old trickle down make the rich richer while demonizing and cheating the working poor and middle class who paid into Social Security and Madicare their whole lives. "

Actually what bernanke is doing is based on Marx's Theory of Reflexivity that's a leftist ideology

"Federal Reserve Chief Ben Bernanke believes that by pulling up stocks, the masses will feel richer and spend more on consumer goods, thus lifting up the economy. This is based on Karl Marx's reflexivity theory (George Soros essentially paraphrased Marx) that states by turning the small wheel (stocks), you can turn the big wheel (economy), which in turn will come back and turn up the small wheel (stocks). Bernanke subscribes to such a theory, and he wants QE to lift up the small wheel (stocks), which he hopes will lift up the big wheel (the economy)."

TheGardener's picture

Bugsy Siegel looks like a cool chap. I`d have hired him, not just for my accounts receivables. And if he had suggested I
keep just ten percent holding shares and get paid out profit tenfold then before, he surely looks far more trustworthy than any tax collector who puts it the other way round.

kliguy38's picture

here's a better plan for you......forget looking at dems or reps for an answer....if you haven't figured out their puppet strings are attached to the same puppet master then there is no hope for a real solution.........btw the real solution involves pain and a lot of it

LooseLee's picture

Damn! If only we could have a small minority of serious minded people see the utter truth of this statement and act (or rather not act as inaction is the highest form of action) from it. Small minds, unfortunately, are extremely insecure and fearful and therfore must identify with something larger than themselves. The idea of Dems and Reps is an illusion and the truth of the matter is in seeing what they actually are and refusing to participate in it. BTW same process goes for any 'idea' that separates people....

MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

I came to this site just over a year ago with the intention of spreading the progressive revolution to one of the few bastions of libertarian ignorance. Over that period, the number of progressive and left-leaning comments and articles has risen dramatically to the point at which we seriously threaten the libertarian status quo. Whereas for most this site’s history, anti-union or anti-welfare comments would have been considered the norm, they are now hammered with down arrows.  I predict that by the end of this year, the progressive revolution will have fully taken over Zerohedge, and libertarians will have to find somewhere else to post their insolent nonsense. I will continue the march to promote the virtues of central planning and state-enforced controls on the movement of peoples, goods and services, because I know that this is the only path to proseperity, peace and liberty. 

malikai's picture

You didn't troll this place on your own. Somebody else helped you!

SilverIsKing's picture

I was frightened that you were going to say, "so my work here is done."

Keep posting since no one here can match your sense of humor.  Many have tried but you take the cake (but you have to share it with the have-nots)

LooseLee's picture

See my comment above yours. You are the essence of the misguided....

Carl Spackler's picture

I will continue the march to promote the virtues of central planning and state-enforced controls on the movement of peoples, goods and services, because I know that this is the only path to proseperity, peace and liberty. 

 

Central planning leads to liberty.  Nice.  Only an Obama would tout such utter hogwash.

 

TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

MillionDollarBonus_ said:

I will continue the march to promote the virtues of central planning and state-enforced controls on the movement of peoples, goods and services, because I know that this is the only path to proseperity, peace and liberty.

Now that is a beautifully crafted statement, the perfect capstone to a comment which is an instant classic.

JimboWHO's picture

Gross is a common liberal.  No surprise here at all.

 

 

https://home.wellsfargoadvisors.com/james.malmstrom

Spitzer's picture

Thats right, he is just as big of bullshitter as anyone.

who the fuck is he kidding ? US bonds dont trade on fundamentals obviosly. anyone can see that. 

Cow's picture

Gross is a lib donor to Obama.  www.opensecrets.org

 

LongSoupLine's picture

Bill Gross...LOL.  The tweet king,

TwoJacks's picture

the Fed has already moved from lender of last resort to the position of lender of first resort. they might as well make lender of only resort

Winston Churchill's picture

I'm sure the Fed has an exit plan.

Your 201k is going to be forced to buy up the junk UST's on their balance sheet.

Why not,they did it with the SS 'trust fund'.

drchris's picture

There are actually people who believe raising taxes is as effective as cutting spending.  They can't pass a remedial math class, but they exist.  

Totentänzerlied's picture

Even better, they believe that they don't end up paying for it in the end.

buzzsaw99's picture

why pay any taxes at all?

I know it is meant to be sarcastic but actually agree with this.

ps: gross kin suck it bitchez

otto skorzeny's picture

but how is that fireman in your town gonna buy his bimbo wife that new GMC Yukon Denali if you don't pay taxes? or how is that local cop-like the one down the street from me-going to put in a $50K inground pool like he just did this spring at his 3400 sq ft house?

buzzsaw99's picture

the fedgub can print money, states and municipalities can't. the federal income tax is a regressive, invasive burden. billionaires don't pay income taxes only working people do and at a much higher rate which is bullshit. besides, the faster the currency collapses the better imo.

otto skorzeny's picture

and property taxes that have not plunged with the value of your home is what-fair? actually ZH had a good graph up the other day that the affluent in this country pay an inordinantly high amount of taxes. that "tax the undertaxed rich bullshit" is fed by marxist class warfare idiots like Obummer.

buzzsaw99's picture

u r funny. in your world the poor, who own nothing, aren't paying their share, while the rich, who own everything, should pay less. ugh.

pods's picture

Between the hidden taxes of the states/town, etc and the Fed.gov issuing debt like, well, a federal government, we are dying a slow death.

Look around almost anywhere.  The people are broken and do not know why.

The reason is that the harder they work, they quicker they are falling behind.  That makes life less than comfortable, and when they realize that they just cannot pull forward demand anymore due to there being zero chance of increasing their income, depression sets in.  

Amerika has a morphed into a quicksand economy.

Printing government funding would be at least a transparent way of seeing the cost of governments, and would allow the ants to prepare while the grasshoppers become fatter, drunker and stupider (Forget it, he's rolling).

As it is now, the grasshoppers use the guns of government to take from the ants.

pods

buzzsaw99's picture

Printing government funding would be at least a transparent way of seeing the cost of governments...

 

Exactly! The way it is now they force us to pay for wars and shit by taking what little we can get and also have to pay interest on money which they just farking printed as homage to the bankers!

Totentänzerlied's picture

Then why do they continue to support it, by action and by inaction?

pods's picture

If things were transparent, manipulation would not be possible.  You would see how much was spent each year.  

Now we have funny accounting, etc. 

And people love to see the sticker price, not the total.

Ex:  Cell phone plan that is $49.99 a month.  People like that.  They do not like seeing the bill for $68.49 a month.  But the $49.99 is what is in their head.

I always ask what the cost is, not the bullshit number they pimp out on the idiot box. What is the number printed on the bill.

Just multiply that all over every single facet of american life.

We are masters of self delusion

Ex.

0 G trans fat.

People see that and think there is no trans fat.  Reality is that there is less than 0.49 G of trans fat per serving.

Nobody really wants the truth. The truth is ugly and uncomforting.

Now lies, they can be whatever you make them.

pods 

TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

pods said:

Just multiply that all over every single facet of american life.

We are masters of self delusion

Ex.

0 G trans fat.

People see that and think there is no trans fat.  Reality is that there is less than 0.49 G of trans fat per serving.

Serving size: 1 G

Nobody really wants the truth. The truth is ugly and uncomforting.

That's why only liars win the presidency.

Now lies, they can be whatever you make them.

...and, by God, those lies are still Made In America, and are our biggest remaining export.

CommunityStandard's picture

You must live in Cali.  Cops around me are lucky to pull 30k.

otto skorzeny's picture

IL- any state -like NY,CA,OH etc (or municipality contained within said state) that's F-ed financially pays their civil servants big bucks/benis/fat pension @ 50 Y.O.

Totentänzerlied's picture

You're delusional! There are no 50 year old cops! /sarc

Actually, the municipal governments try to kick the cops out (they cost more than they generate in return, DUH!), but many try to stay on as long they can, nowhere else would pull in the same salary. And the pensions are beyond fat, they are supermorbidly obese. I have a family member who works as a civilian in a precinct, you would not believe the shit that goes on there. Latest thing I heard, they're whining about being asked to carry a weapon while off duty - but they get overtime for mandatory weapons training.

Jlmadyson's picture

No had they freaking controlled spending in the first place, Dems, Repubs it wouldn't matter.

But they didn't and now the trainwreck we have fiscally and politically there is no way they can fix it.

Screw taxes and screw out of control politicians and the bankers that back them.

Period.

pods's picture

To be blunt, they increased spending (debt) because debt must keep expanding exponentially for our system to exist.

It does not matter what it is spent on, as long as the debt gets issued.
That is why all national elections are meaningless.  Because you are merely choosing the group that will spend the money how you want it spent.

But the debt will expand, whether private or public, aggregate debt must expand.  You can take that to the fractionally reserved bank.

pods 

billwilson's picture

Ryan + Romney will produce an Obama landslide once the old dumb southern rural white folks (the last remmaining core GOP constituency) figure out that Ryan has a plan to screw them. Florida goes Dem, and so do a whole bunch of other states. Epic Fail by Romney ... but given how he has run his campaign so far, no surprise.

There are still ways to reform and eventually fix the economy but unfortunately neither the Dems nor the GOP nor the American people are willing (as of yet) to implement them. Oh well ... and the US $ as a reserve currency gives the US far too much rope ... menaing the day of reckoning will probably come too late.