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Black Friday Gun Sales Break Records

Tyler Durden's picture


Even as Joe Sixpack was maxing out that last credit card on useless gadgets (but not flat screen TVs as Corning was so nice to warn), he was making sure to have enough in store for that one final Plan Z purchase. Guns. As KNDU reports, "Gun dealers flooded the FBI with background check requests from shoppers,  smashing the single day record with a 32% increase from last year." USA Today has more: "Deputy Assistant FBI Director Jerry Pender said the checks, required by federal law, surged to 129,166 during the day, far surpassing the previous high of 97,848 on Black Friday of 2008." And in reality, the number is likely far greater: "The actual number of firearms sold last Friday is likely higher because multiple firearms can be included in a transaction by a single buyer. And the FBI does not track actual gun sales." And while Saudi Arabia is warning that women driving leads to the end of the world, in America women are now the marginal guy buyer: "Some gun industry analysts attributed the unusual surge to a convergence of factors, including an increasing number of first-time buyers seeking firearms for protection and women who are being drawn to sport shooting and hunting. Larry Keane, a spokesman for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, said 25% of the purchases typically involve first-time buyers, many of them women. "I think there also is a burgeoning awakening of the American public that they do have a constitutional right to own guns," Keane said. Yet Keane said last Friday's number appeared to defy complete explanation. "It's really pretty amazing," he said." Indeed it is, and unlike Europe, where with the exception of Switzerland the best the local rioters can do is some imported (from the US) tear gas, when the Arab Spring finally makes landfall, it will be time to use up those one way international frequent flier miles (assuming of course that American and soon others don't cancel them).

More from KNDU:

In the Tri-Cities, sporting goods stores say they've seen an increase in sales in the last four years. Griggs in Pasco saw a 25 % increase in sales from Black Friday last year.


Wholesale Sports in Kennewick has an increase of 35 percent%.


"Normally it's electronics and people are out there looking for that screaming hot deal, and we were discussing that maybe women were out doing that shopping and their husbands were out buying their own Christmas gifts," says Charlie Grigg, whose family owns the ACE Hardware Griggs store.


Grigg says more than half of the calls that come into the store are for the gun department. They even had to put in extra phone lines to do background checks. Managers from both Griggs and Wholesale Sport say the presidential elections have a big effect on sales.  Sales went up four years ago when Obama was elected into office and they say with the new elections around the corner, many fear the President will work on changing gun control laws during his second term in office.

And for the attention and reading challenged:


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Sat, 12/03/2011 - 21:52 | 1942760 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Welcome to the jungle!

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 21:53 | 1942764 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

We goin' huntin'?

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 21:55 | 1942768 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

We ride at dawn, bitchez!

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 21:59 | 1942773 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Hopefully we'll meet some chicks, too.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:01 | 1942777 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

With Guns N Roses and Lord of the Rings references?  Probably not so much.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:55 | 1942890 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

So is this a result of fear of civil unrest, federal government unlimited detention of American citizens, or both. Increased interest in sport shooting is poppycock.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:28 | 1942926 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I was driving around Michigan about this time a number of years ago and stumbled across Ted Nugent's show on the radio.

He was plugging a local gun shop with this wrap to the commercial: "And remember, ammo makes good stocking stuffers!".

Hey , here's another holiday gift idea:

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:25 | 1943121 Mauibrad
Mauibrad's picture

Get your guns on, bitchez!  F--- S. 1867!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:00 | 1943199 trav7777
trav7777's picture

well maybe white women are waking up...tens of thousands of rapes at the hands of black men annually. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:24 | 1943237 Real Money Wins
Real Money Wins's picture

Citizens Arm Yourselves

The time for talk is OVER!!!

Let the traitors swing from the Liberty Oak Trees!!


Sic semper tyrannis

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:46 | 1943338 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

sic semper tyrannis...



Si vis pacem, para bellum

Punisher cover plates make a great accessory for your Glock.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 07:11 | 1943503 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

per the story above: women are now the marginal guy buyers.  i'm assuming the core of demand remains catholic priests.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 08:58 | 1943556 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



I would never invade the United States, there would be a gun behind every blade of grass....Isoroku Yamamoto

Sport shooting.....that's f__king hilarious.


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 11:04 | 1943705 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

BTW the picture with Santa is from the Scottsdale (AZ) Gun Club.  If you are ever in the Phoenix area take the time to check it out.  Very nice store and range.  The range has Class 3 weapons (machine guns) available to shoot.  They also have a very large seclection of guns to "rent" there and try on the range.  Gives you the chance to try before you buy. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 12:08 | 1943912 False_Profit
Sun, 12/04/2011 - 05:03 | 1943434 Michael
Michael's picture

This gun story alone is why I really love America so much.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:10 | 1943289 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

they only say it's rape when their dad finds out

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:25 | 1943122 wanklord
wanklord's picture

First of all, Americans are a bunch of stupid animals easy to manipulate and subdue. Gun manufacturers in the United States are making humongous earnings thanks to the stupidity of these mules.
The Federal government has already a comprehensive -and constantly updated- national database of all gun owners in America, so when it is time to implement Martial Law due mainly to social unrest (Google NSPD51), they will order the surrendering of all weapons in exchange for food coupons – HASTA LA VISTA Second Amendment.
Those who decide not to obey this emergency decree will be considered enemies of the state and a potential threat to National Security, thus all law enforcement agencies in the union (including the US military) will have green light to use deadly force against gun owners who may opt to put some sort of resistance during the confiscation process.
In the end, Americans do not have a single clue of what Martial Law is all about and it will be virtually impossible to educate these brutes about the subject itself.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:33 | 1943140 fnord88
fnord88's picture

that depends on whether or not serving military personnel feel like shooting US civilians. Somehow i don't think they will feel like it. In fact i am guessing quite a few will instead feel like shooting whoever gives them the order.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:05 | 1943206 trav7777
trav7777's picture

they do what they are ordered to do

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:52 | 1943273's picture

Hugh Clowers Thompson, Jr., DFC, BSM, PH, AM (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) was a United States Army helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War. He is most well known for his role in stopping the My Lai Massacre, in which a group of US Army soldiers tortured and killed several hundred unarmed Vietnamese civilians, mutilating their bodies after they had been murdered.,_Jr.


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:12 | 1943293 milbank
milbank's picture

First of all, He isn't well known and secondly, he obviously didn't stop the the My Lai Massacre.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:46 | 1943337's picture

Obviously he did stop the massacre.


Thompson: What's going on here, Lieutenant?
Calley: This is my business.
Thompson: What is this? Who are these people?
Calley: Just following orders.
Thompson: Orders? Whose orders?
Calley: Just following...
Thompson: But, these are human beings, unarmed civilians, sir.
Calley: Look Thompson, this is my show. I'm in charge here. It ain't your concern.
Thompson: Yeah, great job.
Calley: You better get back in that chopper and mind your own business.
Thompson: You ain't heard the last of this!
Realizing that the soldiers intended to murder the Vietnamese, Thompson landed his aircraft between them and the villagers. Thompson turned to Colburn and Andreotta and told them that if the Americans began shooting at the villagers or him, they should fire their M60 machine guns at the Americans:[8] "Y'all cover me! If these bastards open up on me or these people, you open up on them. Promise me!"
Sun, 12/04/2011 - 03:47 | 1943400 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

well according to McCain, who ironically was imprisoned as a POW in Vietnam, we'd just call those villagers 'associated with terrorists', then even if they were US citizens, since the entire world is the battlefield, the president could unilaterally order a drone strike to wipe out the entire village.

It would make no difference if said village was in the mainland of the USA or in Yemen.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 07:17 | 1943506 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

you make an interesting point.  judging from obama's latest moves, he wants to make sure nothing like the heroism cited above in the face of illegal orders surfaces.  this time they'll be legal orders.  the constitution?  he's protecting and defending it. like he swore he would.  change you can't refuse.  

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:18 | 1943232 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

And then there was Kent State. And that was then. 

This is NOW. Or is that NWO?



Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:46 | 1944273 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

"that depends on whether or not serving military personnel feel like shooting US civilians"

It amazes me how many on this site pin their faith on US soldiers somehow being too noble to shoot US civilians.  I'd suggest that that the US military has a long and proud history of killing and maiming civilians, in vast numbers, all over the world.  WTF do you think Hiroshima was?  I'd further suggest that your idea that this would magically stop at our borders is, to say the least, misguided. 

Get real guys.  The military has to be assumed to be the enemy, until it proves otherwise. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:07 | 1943214 goat
goat's picture

The Federal government has already a comprehensive -and constantly updated- national database of all gun owners in America,


Unless they have Madame Cleo performing psychic readings on gunstore A&D books, this is untrue.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:51 | 1944289 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Sure.  All that paperwork you fill in, all that lovely useful data, is just thrown away.  Right?

I think not.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:06 | 1944617 Coast Watcher
Coast Watcher's picture

Many states still allow the private and unregulated sale of firearms between individuals without the FBI background checks. Even the People's Republic of Maine allows it.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 19:53 | 1945159 goat
goat's picture

Its all kept by the gun dealer...none transmitted to the government (except under certain circumstances)...unless and until you go out of business.  And then it cant be collated.  It is open to inspection.  


That is current procedure.  of course this could change at any time.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:23 | 1943236 preppin.for.the...'s picture

What "wanklord" fails to take into account is that

a) America is chock full of military veterans armed to the teeth and fully aware of why the framers of the constitution decided to add the 2nd amendment;

b) a good percentage have stocked up on food and water, so food stamps for guns won't mean shit; and

c) the vast majority of the military will not obey an unconstitutional order - this is part of the "obey LAWFUL orders" that is drilled into the heads of American servicemen.  

That's what "wankers" outside the US haven't quite figured out: "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 07:08 | 1943502 prole
prole's picture

The military will obey orders just like they did in the Bonus March, Just like they did at Waco, Just like they did at Katrina. As far as the Mei Lie Massacre, every day is Mei lie in Iraqnamistan.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 07:24 | 1943511 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

we are at war.  with u.s. citizens in this country, if need be.  we are all subject to assassination at the (secret or publicized, as needed) order of obama without appeal or recourse.  don't kid yourself it stops with the muslims.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:30 | 1944501 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Well, if they do, it will be the first time their out numbered 3000x's to 1.

I wouldn't like those odds.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:33 | 1943245 Clay Hill
Clay Hill's picture

Why all the fuss? It's just Wanklord speaking out of turn again.

Gun laws vary a great deal according to which State you reside in.

Over the last twenty years or so, I have bought and sold dozens of guns via flea market, yard sale, and estate sale.

Hell, Wankie, I've even taken them in trade for handy man work once. I've never needed to provide identification unless buying from a licensed dealer in a brick 'n' mortar location.

Come and get'em Statist bitchez.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:31 | 1943246 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

You know wank off lord bitch, fuck you and the horse you need to ride off on. You do not know shit about rural american's you fucking troll. For one, if there is a shit storm, we all loyal american's hope that after the dust settles, there will be some sort of piece with people. 

If there is not and shit does hit the fan, say being attacked from a foriegn gov. etc, you have no idea you dumb fuck how true american people will stick it out. Not everyone sit's behind a desk, or hides behind a p.c. dick head.  

You are a complete troll and to boot a dumb fuck I would like to meet in the mountains if shit does hit the fan you punk. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:41 | 1943334 NullShrub
NullShrub's picture

Sorry, but guess again.  I have two in special operations that will follow my orders to shoot, before they follow an order to shoot American civilians.  Your scenario is not going to happen.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:47 | 1943340 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

You guys do realize that guns won't offer any protection whatsoever against engineered bugs and even more exotic weapons?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 07:34 | 1943515 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

oh let them shoot their rifles at the robotic russian doll of death.  i believe anwar al-awlaki (and his teenaged son) was armed or in the company of armed men.  maybe those depending on massed rural guerilla warfare in the u.s. should consider the ballot box while there is still a chance.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 11:42 | 1943835 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

No, really my shotgun won't protect me from flu, do tell..  Then stfu and go back to mom's basement.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 03:01 | 1943363 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

"they will order the surrendering of all weapons in exchange for food coupons"

so that means you need to have a lot of weapons so that you can get a lot of food ...

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 06:28 | 1943480 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

You have the idea.

One has one legally registered weapon that can be seized.

One also has 300 other weapons that are NOT registered and stashed in a safe location.  All the goobermint knows is what is registered.  They have no idea about all those thousands of guns that have gone missing from police lockers over the years, nor of the unrecovered stolen guns, nor of the guns dropped during street crimes,nor of smuggled weapons.

They only know what they think they know.  Their pronouncements of adequacy are mere bluster.  And the moment they seize the legally registered weapons is the moment all the hidden ones lock and load.

Not saying it won't happen, because the wanabe predators we have in government believe they are infallible in thier supremeness.  I'd wager there are way more individuals in Virginia alone that believe in their sovereign, god-given rights than there are bureaucrats in DC.  I imagine the House cleaning will be thorough enough, though pretty devastating.

Parasites in our government now think they have the power to issue dictates and to enforce those dictates with 'shoot to kill' orders.  They forget thay are outnumbered, in DC, by a factor of millions to one.

The Senate's near declaration of War on American citizens is the last alarm bell.  It's time to lock and load, and start marching, or targeting.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 07:38 | 1943519 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

one would think.  but it seems that the majority of armed, god-believing virginians still vote, when they do vote, for the corporations and their tools.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 10:45 | 1943405 joshua10
joshua10's picture

WankLord, Keep in mind. A green light for the government to use force is also a green light for the people. The use of force door swings in both directions. The government does not have a monopoly in this department. This is not Rwanda, or China under Mao,  Russia under Stalin, or Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. Most Americans understand that The People are the sovereigns of the United States and it's our duty to resist tyranny, subjugation, and to remain free using any means necessary. Believe it!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:56 | 1944302 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

The government IS using force.  100 SWAT raids daily.  Things that one fella used to take care of with a tap on the shoulder and a "please come with me Sir".   Wako?

Unfortunately, this IS Rwanda etc.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 21:13 | 1945338 joshua10
joshua10's picture

Yes the government is using force. If you throw out a number of SWAT raids you need to breakdown what the raids are for. Are they looking for heavily armed and violent Mexican drug gangsters? Are they looking for violent armed gang members? Are they looking for terrorists building an IED or a weapon of mass destruction? Are they looking for someone who's parking meter ran out? I don't know. 

One thing I can tell you, this is not Rwanda. We don't have organized groups of terrorists running around from town to town, neighborhood to neighborhood with machetes committing genocide, beheading people, castrating men, raping men & women, cutting womens breasts off, and cutting out nine month old fetuses from mothers. We don't have that here in the US. If crime in my neck of the woods even scratches the surface on that kind of wanton and naked evil, the bandits had better be able to run faster than the 2600 feet/second it would take my .308 Win projectile to reach them. We are not allowing that kind of criminality here.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 05:18 | 1943439 Michael
Michael's picture

All I know is I got this three inch thick burl wood coffee table I can stand up for protection while I'm shooting back with my 17&1 SR9. Hopefully I can take out a dozen of them before they get to me.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 09:42 | 1943608 Floordawg
Floordawg's picture

The way I was taught... In a fight, a sidearm is your secondary weapon used when tactical reloads aren't conducive or your fighting to your rifle.

My friendly advice is to get a good primary weapon (AR variant, SCAR, ACR, etc.) with a good reflex optic (Aimpoint, EOtech) and a matching 3X magnifier with a throw-switch if you want to engage targets at greater distances. Of course plenty of mags and a bench loader will really up your lead dispenser status.

If it ever gets to that, we're all in this together...

Party on!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 10:54 | 1943691 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Michael time to step up your game.  The pistol is nice and works well in the movies, but like Floordawg said you need a rifle.  If you anticipate engagements at you doorstep .223 will be fine.  If you want to have a fighting chance at longer distances go with a .308 AR10 or even a good bolt action gun.  Spend the money for a good optic and good match ammo.  Then practice, practice, practice.... 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 11:28 | 1943786 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

The ultimate weapon for engements at your doorstep is a crate of handgrenades.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:58 | 1944309 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

You might want to buy a new coffee table as well.  You'll need 12 inches to stop .308.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:39 | 1944396 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Nothing says "Welcome" more than an improvised Claymore.

Since we are on the subject, I think many here might enjoy the first chapter of "Absolved" which can be read here:

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1944424 KowPie
KowPie's picture

"All I know is I got this three inch thick burl wood coffee table I can stand up for protection while I'm shooting back with my 17&1 SR9. Hopefully I can take out a dozen of them before they get to me."


A 300gr .44 MAG penetrator (FMJ) with 22gr of Alliant 300-MP and a Federal 150 primer packed in a starline case traveling at 1350 fps muzzle will go through your coffe table like swiss cheese. I have 500 of these loaded in stock. Wood, bricks, sheet metal and sheetrock are no cover from the right round. Good concealment, but shitty cover. Unless you add a .75" plate steel liner to your coffee table keep using it for coffee.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:31 | 1944842 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

An inch of hardend steel or a foot of sand, isn't it funny how sand works so well at stopping bullets?  Stock up on sand bags and sand for cheap cover, should you ever need it.

Check out the Box of Truth:

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:45 | 1944868 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

You need training friend.   First lesson, the difference between cover and concealment and three inches of coffee table is concealment unless it is a rolled homogenous coffee table..

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 09:01 | 1943573 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

You talk like you know the future.  You do not.  In reply to wank something above.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 11:27 | 1943782 g speed
g speed's picture

Yeah Wanker--like the IRA turned in their guns -right-- same old Red Coat bullshit from the "lost empire wantabes"-- England is on its knees and you talk shit about Americans-- English fop. Have some tea and crumpets--don't for get to cross your legs.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:01 | 1944439 KowPie
KowPie's picture

Go fuck yourself wanklord. Not every firearm is registered you ignorant limey fuck. As to trading a firearm for food??? Only a dipshit like you would even consider that. And yes, I'm a "brute" (only a pussy like you would use that description in that context) and I would gladly put a round through your rotten mellon from 700 meters all day long.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:22 | 1944486 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

In the Philippines, when Marcos confiscated guns people simply wrapped them up and buried them.  Hide em with your gold.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:32 | 2004961 twotraps
twotraps's picture

Gun Envy?  Have another pint darling

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:55 | 2004478 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Ahh,  the poster boy for methedrine induced reality.  Teddy.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:39 | 1944713 pcrs
pcrs's picture

good luck with your handgun against the indefenite detention of the government

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:58 | 1942897 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

The best backup is always "well equipped".

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:25 | 1943123 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

If u meet them in the GS GQ, 200 West Street - shoot first, and take them b4 they get cold.

Shooting baby squids is the major fun, methinks ...


Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:16 | 1942807 economics1996
economics1996's picture

I just bought a Rugar 380 with lazar sights.  Urban duty.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:24 | 1942948 Rome is burining
Rome is burining's picture


check this out - nearly zero recoil, 20 in the magazine.  It is a fast round.  Oh.... there is also a rifle that uses the same (interchangeable) ammo but it has only a 50 round magazine.  I hear the Israeli's really like this.  It comes with a guarantee that it will keep the cats out of the backyard.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:34 | 1942978 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

I'm worried about coons, not cats. When the EBT cards stop working.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 07:51 | 1943528 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

i'd worry more about the zionists than the "coons".  they explain more of the current predicament, if not offering as much visceral satisfaction as "the other".

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:10 | 1943220 goat
goat's picture

five seven ammo is not really plentiful right now

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:53 | 1943186 JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture

Got an internal Lasermax sight for my Glock 17.


A little pricey, but good for aiming.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:56 | 1943357 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Have a lasermax in my carry piece, Glock 26.  Keep a few 32 round mags in the side panel of my car, great piece of mind.

It's always good to have tritium nite sites anyways, never want to rely solely on batteries.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:58 | 1944307 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I got a Glock 26 too. Those 32 round mags are a bit much for me. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:53 | 1943350 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Ruger pistols are shit, and 380 is shit for stopping power. Get a Springfield XDM 45 with nite sites. Load it with golden sabers, and buy plenty of mags.  Quick Shok is also a great round, I have seen what they do to flesh... makes a big mess.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 06:18 | 1943470 Idiocracy
Idiocracy's picture

economics1996, I hope you shoot better than you spell.  Otherwise your neighbors are in for a lot of collateral damage.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 10:22 | 1943664 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture
"With a gun barrel between your teeth, you speak only in vowels."
Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:02 | 1942778 philipat
philipat's picture

Here we go again. Actually, the US Constitution does NOT give the right to individuals to bear arms. What it actually describes is the right of the people to establish "Armed militias". In most countries this is known as the military.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:09 | 1942796 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."


Sounds like individuals to me.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:29 | 1942836 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It's what the SCOTUS think it sounds like too...

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:41 | 1942863 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

until the corporations tell them to think different

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:58 | 1942899 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

At which point SCOTUS & CorpUS will no longer be parties to the conversation.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:34 | 1942973 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

There is no spoon. See the system for what it is.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:01 | 1943058 FranSix
FranSix's picture

This too, is for the attention and reading challenged:

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:57 | 1943042 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

SCOTUS can "interpret" constitution any way they want.

Your rights are negotiable in their eyes.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:34 | 1943145 ironsky
ironsky's picture

How big is their army.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:48 | 1943174 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Just under 1,000 in my estimation. They are nothing without us. Its called consent.

The enemy within to them ;-)

It could change tomorrow if we all really wanted it to...the sheeple remain convinced they have no power or just prefer to graze off the scraps thrown over the fence.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:30 | 1943319 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The morons love being brainwashed 24x7 in HD. All TV is shit. Most viewers/morons love the muslim.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 07:15 | 1943504 prole
prole's picture

For a "Moslem" he sure bombs a lot of Moslems. That is one funny Moslem.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:48 | 1944876 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Yeah, how many divisions does the pope have anyway...

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:43 | 1943000 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture


From the Michigan Constitution:

§ 4 Militia.


Sec. 4.

The militia shall be organized, equipped and disciplined as provided by law.

The law:

32.509 State military establishment; composition; organized and unorganized militia.


Sec. 109.

The organized militia of this state taken collectively shall be known as the state military establishment and constitutes the armed forces of this state. The organized militia consists of the army national guard, the air national guard, and the defense force when actually in existence as provided in this act. The unorganized militia consists of all other able-bodied citizens of this state and all other able-bodied citizens who are residents of this state who have or shall have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, who shall be age 17 or over and not more than age 60, and shall be subject to state military duty as provided in this act.


So does that make me part of the unorganized militia, with full U.S. 2nd Ammendment rights, or am I reading this wrong?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:04 | 1943073 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Yooper in the house!  Where are you located?  I grew up in Ontonagon and have a B.S. in forestry.  Small world.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:49 | 1943176 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Onto?  The Banana Belt, only around 110" of the white stuff a year, and now 14.7% unemployed after everyone left.

I'm actually up the road near Calumet, and hope the BS is treating you better, I can't walk in the bush anymore due to a plate and screws....

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:17 | 1942811 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Get a job.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:19 | 1942815 robobbob
robobbob's picture

Get your progressive constitutional rewriting troll ass the hell out of our country.

"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

pretty clear. you've already failed that excuse in court. move on. oh, but progressives never do, do they? instead, you just keep stacking the courts with biased judges until you get the answers you want.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:35 | 1942846 openoutcrying
openoutcrying's picture

well put my friend

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:56 | 1943037 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

They are actually liberal communists....for real.

"We should have no illusions: liberal communists are the enemy of every true progressive struggle today. All other enemies – religious fundamentalists, terrorists, corrupt and inefficient state bureaucracies – depend on contingent local circumstances."

Spot on otherwise ;)





Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:50 | 1943345 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

None of us ever signed assent, contractually, to the Constitution.

It's a meaningless document and its "viability" is just a spook in peoples' heads,

just like our economic system.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 11:36 | 1943815 g speed
g speed's picture

WTSHTF I'd rather have a gun than a lawyer. Sign shmime--- stick your pen where the sun don't shine

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 09:24 | 1943591 saiybat
saiybat's picture

Guns are here if they don't like them they can move to North Korea where they're illegal.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:42 | 1944724 pcrs
pcrs's picture

Here in europe we are all slaves, no guns and shut up. You get used to it, allthough taxation of 80% of your life by your rulers is something that keeps itching.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:23 | 1942822 nmewn
nmewn's picture

If you've read the Federalist Papers you would have discovered that the Founders considered the people as the militia.

They were against standing armies...which was affirmed by the restriction on government military by way of the follow on amendment (the third) which you now defame as well.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:27 | 1942832 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Talking sense to a traitor is pointless. Hang them all.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:47 | 1942870 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Especially when they print their own money.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:52 | 1942881 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Talking sense to a traitor is pointless."

I think its high time to re-assert some basic liberal tenants of what it means to be American.

#1 is any government can only remain viable by the consent of the governed. Statists should remember this always.

Their lives (not just their jobs) may one day depend on it ;-)

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:46 | 1943003 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Statists should remember this always.


Most especialy when so many of us are armed. This is precisely WHY we are allowed to be armed, to keep the lying thieves under some control. Fear is the only mechanism they get if people are unwilling to do their job and clean the place out once in awhile with a vote.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:29 | 1944499 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

nmewn, historically speaking, the only way to get rid of them is some form of the French way, but like cockroaches, they always come back.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:36 | 1942984 Rome is burining
Rome is burining's picture

But what would we do with our guns then?  Hunt?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 08:55 | 1943565 flattrader
flattrader's picture

I think you need to remember/consider that the first ten amendments (originally twelve) were forced upon the "Founders" as a condition of ratification.  We came very close to being a different country had we left it in the hands of what was then "the oligarchs."


While the new state governments protected individual rights, the Articles of Confederation, the first constitution of the United States, did not. The weak national government under the Articles of Confederation created many problems. In 1787, these problems finally led to a convention to draft a new charter for the national government, the Constitution of the United States. Lack of a bill of rights became the main reason many people opposed the Constitution.

When New Hampshire became the necessary ninth state to ratify it, the Constitution went into effect on June 21, 1788. Ratification was achieved only through the promise of amendments to protect individual rights. Congressional debates over the Bill of Rights drafted by James Madison, then a U.S. representative from Virginia, were, in Madison’s words, “extremely difficult and fatiguing.” Members of Congress challenged each other to duels at one passionate point in the debates. Congress submitted a bill of rights with 12 amendments to the states for ratification in September 1789. Two were not ratified: one changing the apportionment of Congress and the other forbidding congressional pay raises to take effect until after the next election. (This latter amendment was ratified in 1992 as the 27th Amendment to the Constitution.)

On Dec. 15, 1791, Virginia ratified the 10 amendments. This satisfied the requirement of approval by three-fourths of the states, and the Bill of Rights became part of the law of the land.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 10:30 | 1943668 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well stated, this is true.

Without the Bill of Rights as a part of the original documents some states refused to combine/join into a national federal government.

Many distrusted a large centralized government completely...for all the good reasons we discuss here everyday.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:24 | 1942826 Cheyenne
Cheyenne's picture

I comment about once a month, and only when it's important.

You are a moron.

The more people that know that, the safer we all are.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:22 | 1942944 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

Well said. You should post more often.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:26 | 1942828 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

well, I have guns and im guessing you dont. you loose

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:05 | 1943074 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Looks like you got him there.  But, he is up to a pretty impressive 112 junks...

I would green you but this computer (here on visit to Peru, next up is Havana Club shots, bitchez!) does not display graphics well, so please accept a virtual + 1!

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:29 | 1942835 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

The Constitution grants no rights at all. Rights are inherent. Privileges are granted. The Constitution explicitly recognizes some of the rights that the people already had.

Defense, and the right to bear arms, are individual rights. A military or police force, when used to defend the people's rights, is the collective expression of this individual right. A military or police force, when used offensively, is organized crime.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:36 | 1942847 Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

Philpat - I predict you break the record for junks with this stupid post.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:50 | 1943014 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Well said...

91 junks to 1 (at time of posting)....

Shit I'm not even from the States but the 2nd amendment is a no brainer and a well understood aspect of the Bill of Rights.

Philpat?  What a fuckin' Teletubby - Tinkywinky comes to mind....

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:07 | 1943079 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

117 and counting, LOL...

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:52 | 1943179 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

133 so far.  Ol' Wanklord must have given him the up, for trying to "keep the colonists in their place"....

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:38 | 1942855 ironmace
ironmace's picture

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

what part of that do you not understand?

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:22 | 1942942 s2man
s2man's picture

As in, "We the people".

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:39 | 1942990 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

That even includes excons, BTW.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:36 | 1943154 nmewn
nmewn's picture

In my view that is correct, as disturbing as that might seem to SOME.

While a government statute can be constructed to say its illegal for an ex-con to have a right to self defense, it can do nothing to prevent his right of it.

For example...a guy (or woman) gets out of prison after serving his or her time. Where will they end up? Boardwalk or Baltic Ave?

The Founders understood this basic concept. Its a human right to self defense.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:10 | 1943286's picture

You can get to neither Baltic nor Boardwalk on the first roll after being sprung. Not unless you role doubles. Do that three times and you'll end up back in the pokey.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:54 | 1943353 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Not true... You could roll a "12", & land on CHANCE and get a "Take a Walk on the Boardwalk" card... Then, since you'd have rolled doubles, your next roll could be a "4", landing you on Baltic...

Effectively, you'd have landed on both in the same turn...

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:57 | 1943359's picture


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 04:26 | 1943413 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

What would be even funnier is if the "4" you rolled to get from Boardwalk to Baltic (in the same turn) was a pair of 2's...

This would entitle you to a 3rd roll (which potentially could be doubles again), and land you back in the clink, as you pointed out...

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:34 | 1943323 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Wel if it is Corzine it is Park Ave but he will never go to jail.  Former Democrat govenor Jon Corzine is friends with the muslim.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:39 | 1942856 pods
pods's picture

Well technically you are correct, the Constitution does not GRANT anything to the people. It merely describes certain rights.

Read up on what was actually said by the founders, like in Federalist 84 pertaining to the bill of rights.  Although this one was penned by Hamilton, the father of the First Bank of the United States, it describes what the constitution is about.  A framework for the new government, NOT something to restrict the people's rights.

But a minute detail of particular rights is certainly far less applicable to a Constitution like that under consideration, which is merely intended to regulate the general political interests of the nation, than to a constitution which has the regulation of every species of personal and private concerns.



Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:36 | 1942980 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Hamilton was a royalist.  He wanted to be king of the new US of A.  Jefferson wrote the Constitution with Madison.  Look at what Jefferson had to say about the right to bear arms.  And it's interesting to note what Jefferson said about Hamilton too.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:12 | 1943292's picture

And don't forget Jefferson's VP.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:36 | 1943329 Loki Verloren
Loki Verloren's picture

relating back to the constitution, the constitution, and all national, state, etc unincorporated organisation constitutions they are 'positive law' and only 'include' the rights of the organisation that are specified, and ultimately anything which can be shown to be in conflict with the constitution has no effect, and this principle of first claim is superior, a maxim of equity, together when you think about these things what you get is, that first, the rules only apply to those working for or acting in the interests of the government, performing a function of government, and that for the most part the oldest rules trump the newest ones because they have been agreed upon long before. i dunno about other constitutions but the foundation documents including the constitution of canada actually straight out say that any law in conflict with the foundational documents has no force or effect. so, for example, this business of the government having exclusive jurisdiction over certain fields of human endeavour - eg police, judiciary, even these are recognised as being permissible to be provided by non-government entities or people, because right near the top of the rules you have the criminal code, and monopoly, protected by fraud or violence, is criminal, one of the worst due to its multiplier effect on violence.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 10:08 | 1943639 pods
pods's picture

This was the same way the US Constitution was written.  I have read many essays on how the bill of rights was actually a potentially dangerous addition, as the organic constitution was merely a set of rules for the government to abide by.  

Not sure who tossed the junk on me, probably my mention of Hamilton, but in Federalist 84 it was actually written that the inclusion of a bill of certain rights could be construed to be a simple declaration of the people's rights. And anything not included could be looked at as not being a right.  This is actually EXACTLY what has happened over the years.

I think with the War of Northern Aggression, everything changed.  We lost our republic then, and with the 14th ammendment, became a corporate democracy.  Well, along with the act of 1871, which established the corporatocracy.  

When we the people handed in our gold, and accepted the benefits of corporate money as allowed by the 14th ammendment trust, we became citizens where we signed over our rights for the priviliges of being a citizen.

That scenario actually explains quite well how a government can regulate something which it had no business regulating.  If we are subjects to the goverment as citizens (in the 14th amendment scenario) they may do anything they want to infringe on a so called right.  Because in reality, it is a revocable privilege and not a right.  

Of course I will now be junked to high heaven for saying this, but there is a good deal of evidence that in fact this is how the nation is being run.  With a non existant (for the most part Chumbles) "people", then a government, and a subject citizenry.


Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:40 | 1942860 navy62802
navy62802's picture

In modern America, such groups are called terrorist organizations and stripped of their Constitutional rights.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:48 | 1942873 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Here we go again. Actually, the US Constitution does NOT give the right to individuals to bear arms. What it actually describes is the right of the people to establish "Armed militias". In most countries this is known as the military.

You are a liar.

There is a mountain of evidence - correspondence between the founders - showing exactly what was meant by the wording of the 2nd Amendment.

You can argue lots of things: you can argue that the Consttution doesn't matter, or that it should be overthrown, or that it makes domination of my country a little more difficult than otherwise. But if you want to argue finery of that the wording of the 2nd Amendment, you have a weak argument.

Fuck off.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:19 | 1942936 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

+1 Actually, I don't really care how people "interpret" the wording. My government is corrupt. "They" need to go along with the bankers and measures need to be takin to NEVER allow their kind again. I own pistols, rifles, and shotguns. Is my government taking them from me? NO FUCKING WAY. I hope I'm using them very soon. This "system" needs to come down. The orginal system needs to be reinstated. Face it....they want you dead. I wish "them" the same fate.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:51 | 1943019 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

We only really own what we can defend, including our freedom.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:48 | 1943175 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

comment of the thread and the essence of the second

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 22:49 | 1942876 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They had standing armies back then.  If they mean official military, they would have said official military.

As if they needed a fucking Constitutional amendment to make sure that soldiers would be able to carry weapons.  That is the dumbest, most twisted logic I have seen since Trav's last post.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:00 | 1942902 Pangasius
Pangasius's picture


Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:34 | 1942908 Barack Obama
Barack Obama's picture


"The Supreme Court held:

(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

Why does everyone pretend to be a Professor of Constitutional law. Leave the law to the experts.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:40 | 1942992 Rome is burining
Rome is burining's picture

We got here by leaving it to the elitist, know everything, ivy league experts.  No,... I'ld prefer to consult Joe 6-pack as long as he is not drunk and can balance his check book - he appears to be managing better than those in washington. 

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:11 | 1942919 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

As an American( note lack of use of the letter K) I recommend 30-06 and 45 acp for second amendment exercise.

 Have a great totalitarian day!

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:41 | 1942996 Rome is burining
Rome is burining's picture

Do you know why Americans love the 45?  Because they don't make a 46!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:50 | 1943269 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Try out a 45-70, nice little pea shooter lol. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:49 | 1943343 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Out of a No. 1 or No. 3, you can really bump 'em up to shoulder-killer status.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 08:07 | 1943537 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Just sold a #3 and had a great time test firing wadcutters from it through my old televisions. Also sold off a Browning 1885 in 45-70 that was a dream to shoot. Long heavy gun but it minimized the recoil quite a bit. Too bad I didn't get to shoot it past 100yds.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 06:45 | 1943490 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Isn't it nice to know that the 'gangster' guns of the 20/30's were .45 Tommy Guns.

And, during that time of bank orchestrated fraud and theft, that the targets of the 'gangsters' were the banks.

Now we can understand why many considered Dillinger a folk hero.

I can only imagine the thrill of a hundred round magazine!

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:21 | 1942941 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

You must have missed this: District of Columbia v. Heller (2008).

Right of individual to bear arms.  And you're right, it's not in the Constitution per se, it's in the Bill of Rights, Second Amendment. 

We own quite a few guns in our household, and part of the reason is self defense. No apologies either. 

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:23 | 1942945 reescher
reescher's picture

holy Scheiße you're gonna be the first one hangin' progressive. anyone, ANYONE who voted/stacked courts/wrote against the right of the people to bear arms is going to be first on the list when the SHTF. Plus, bonus for us: YOU WON'T BE ARMED!!! Saves us true Americans some ammo. Since you voted against the Constitution, you can all say ????? to bin laden.

Banksters are second.

geez. get the hell out of the US if you don't like it. Seriously. Leave now. You're not wanted and you are against the crucial standard by which this country is defined. Go to France. You're not worthy of being a US citizen.

Dammit your type pisses me off.

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 23:47 | 1943005 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

What about the American Indians?  Do they have to leave too?

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