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Blast From The Past: Laughing With Laffer

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Or, rather, make that 'at'. Suffer us this brief detour into history, when hilarity ensues as we watch how Arthur Laffer, one of the "world-renowned", "greatest economists" of his generation and inventor of the Laffer curve, describes the US economy as of August 2006, indignantly making wagers with Peter Schiff that the bums bears will always lose, and otherwise validating the cardinal flaw canon of modern economics, namely that unsustainable debt is really just very  much sustainable wealth.

h/t Sudden Debt

 

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Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:50 | 2359331 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Very bullish news.... can you imagine all that slave labor moving to the US??

http://global.christianpost.com/news/popocatepetl-volcano-threatning-to-...

Popocatepetl Volcano Threatening to Erupt, 19 Million Prepare to Evacuate The Popocatepetl volcano is making movement and threatening to erupt, causing Mexican officials to raise the alert level from yellow phase three to yellow phase two.

The volcano has already begun spewing red-hot bits of rock, and its opening has expanded. These are signs that the volcano, still quite active, could soon erupt. In a statement by Mexico's National Center for Disaster Prevention, the volcano could produce "moderate exhalations, some with ash, sporadic low to moderate explosions with likely burning fragments, and flaming magma within the crater."

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:06 | 2359384 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

In the end the number of so called "Economists" and CNBC Clowns that will be embarassed on video by Peter Schiff will be stagering.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:06 | 2359388 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

MXN is at multi year lows:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=USDMXN%3DX+Interactive#symbol=;range=...

Goldman Sachs must expect a pyroclastic explosion in the next few hours...

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:58 | 2359674 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

I'm so happy they stopped the housing and stock bubble from fully popping because bubbles are just so fun. Now we get to watch the bond bubble go pop. Nothing can stop the bond bubble from fully popping. There's no entity large enough to bail out the US.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:38 | 2359864 Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

Bat in the upper deck.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 04:38 | 2360499 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I'm just so 'wealthy' it hurts...

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:44 | 2359871 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Laffer's arguments;

  1. US economy has never been in better shape
  2. No tax increase
  3. Monetary policy is spectacular
  4. Freer trade better than ever before
  5. Women with 7month old baby love the work so much that she's back at work and enjoys low taxes
  6. his expert opinion is only worth a penny

 

Peter swivels side to side in the beginning of the interview .

 

Laffer is not a stupid guy with Yale and Standford MBA PhD. So why would smart people make illogical conclusions? because they sold out to big money elites to sell Reagonomics bull which deterioriated the middle class power.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 20:00 | 2359896 economics9698
economics9698's picture

90% of economists are glorified propaganda men and women.  They believe in fairy tales or are good fairy tale story tellers.  When you understand they are full of misinformation shit and their job is to baffle the peasants with bull shit so the elites can continue their theft you got the correct picture.

The only economists who understand the fucking subject are Austrians.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 20:09 | 2359912 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

American new world order elites decided that they made it to the top in America. There is nothing more, so they must aim to top the world. Ignore any issues in house such as education, labor, justice, illegal immigration etc, and just focus on military colonialization of key commodity and energy regions.

 

Of course this doesn't work well, but to keep fooling the public to keep them in power, they give the public the facade of getting wealthy: stock (nasdaq bubble), housing value (housing bubble), and plenty of food and entertainment (cheap fake stuff on TV).

 

Public with stupid education, doesn't realize what is happening and keeps them in power until it is too late or expose is too obvious. Then those guys come up with another bubble scam. It has been 30 years and working well.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 00:12 | 2360322 destroyer of mo...
destroyer of moonbats's picture

bravo!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 03:01 | 2360442 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"because they sold out to big money elites to sell Reagonomics bull"

Reaganomics?  Try statism bull of the last 100 years...this aint no 8 year, nor 1 party show...

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 00:31 | 2360344 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

aha, just wait till you see the great...

BAIL BOND BUBBLE....

Pop that...

ori

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:35 | 2359486 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I don't think those people have that emotion.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:02 | 2359371 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

aHHH Cute little Maria Bartoromo is purring, "Stocks well off their lows today on a decrease in jobless claims" 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:21 | 2359428 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

there is nothing "cute" going on there, and her voice can split atoms and melt diamonds.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:44 | 2359509 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

...as well as kill pensioners and those foolish enough to believe they will retire from their "investments" in stocks.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 20:50 | 2360002 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

police chiefs pension are above six figures.

and they get to be "consultants" for another six figures.

it pays to be a dumb dog in a police state.

 

Even in arab spring, falling leaders offered gold to military and police. They didn't care about scientists or doctors.

guns > brain in case of emergency

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:16 | 2359411 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

this is one of my favorite all time videos schiff vs laffer.........Schiff vs Norman is a close 2nd

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:04 | 2359569 devo
devo's picture

Link?

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:04 | 2362191 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Perhaps this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G0tfb8ZefA

Also seach "Peter Schiff was right" on youtube.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 21:51 | 2360108 CURWAR2012
CURWAR2012's picture

Please give  link to Schiff vs Norman

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:21 | 2359435 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

News just in! Laffer is the father of all Khardashian sisters! Explains their utter stupidity now!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:52 | 2359531 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

You need help...  Kardashian post obsession is a treatable disorder. :)

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:24 | 2359738 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Laffer isn't stupid.  When someone blows as much statist smoke as he is it can only mean he's a tool of Wall Street i.e. paid for his excremental utterances in favor of Wall Street.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:53 | 2359889 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

stupid people make mistakes.

but to make mistakes ALL THE TIME takes a genius to understand ALL of the right answers and purposely take an opposite stance.

 

Laffer is just a sub when that cnbc tool Larry Kudlow is out on vacation

they founded some bs fund together Free Enterprise Fund

why would an economist partner with a freaking journalist? because no other rational economist want to be associated with that fool.

 

CNBC is for fools.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:53 | 2359339 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Leisure Suit Larry?

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:51 | 2359341 vmromk
vmromk's picture

FUCK YOU Laffer, you moronic ASSHOLE.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:20 | 2359425 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Yeah.. wow.. I'd like to see that moron come on TV and defend that interview..

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:36 | 2359491 withnmeans
withnmeans's picture

I would bet you a penny, HE WON'T... He's a piece of work, should be a government empolyee and work with Timmah!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:21 | 2359610 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

We tried that already. He *was* a government employee, on Ronald Reagan's Economic Policy Advisory Board, for 8 years, and the father of Reaganomics.  

That experiment doesn't appear to be finished fucking us yet.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:01 | 2359785 killallthefiat
killallthefiat's picture

Then Peter said, "I'll bet you a whole lot more than a penny."  Too bad Peter put all his (clients) winning into Chinese stocks!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:36 | 2359493 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Of course we know they'll never subject him to that treatment.

Which is why he did it in the first place.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:07 | 2359578 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Laffer you jerk, pay your bets!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:26 | 2359615 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Laffer reminds me of an evangelist preacher, maybe even a parrot. Bet me a penny, bet me a penny, it's great! BUCKAWW!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:52 | 2359343 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Carnys are everywhere ... but always show up on CNBC as experts.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:54 | 2359346 michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

Welcome back SD

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:53 | 2359349 blu
blu's picture

The Laffer curve was a joke back even when Reagan first pulled it out of his ass. Wow did that 1%'er wealth ever trickle down back in the day, you bet it did.

You'd think these quack ideas would go off somewhere and die. Seems not. I guess they think most of us are just stupid. Could be they are right.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:25 | 2359421 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Even Laffer, himself, has admitted that the theory was dubious at best. Unfortunately, though, it wasn't just a bad theory; it was pure right-wing bullshit propaganda disguised as highly researched economic theory, complete with overly simplistic charts and graphs. It was a seemingly perfect visual to convince the dumb masses to give the rich more tax breaks... just look at the charts!......to deny supply side economics was to deny geometry, itself!  *LOL*  Great trick. 

Not only did it not happen under Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, but the EXACT OPPOSITE happened under Clinton - higher taxes cut the deficit... DUH! And the economy didn't collapse!  There are, however, some right-wing super morons who will point to a brief increase in tax revenue during Bush II, but that was due to everyone turing their house into an ATM machine.  After 10 years of Bush tax cuts, government revenue is straight into the ditch and our debts are soaring. 

Simply put, just more right-wing lies.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:32 | 2359480 blu
blu's picture

When things get really bad they'll come up with another visual along the lines of the Laffer curve in order to justify what they intend to do anyway. Probably be something that proves beyond doubt that $1T a month in deficit spending is sound policy.

Whatev'. I can't care anymore.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:39 | 2359494 GernB
GernB's picture

Surely you are not suggesting that the Federal government will have income at a tax rate of 0, so if that's not in contention then you must be suggesting people will work even if you take 100% of their income. To which I would say: only in a society where people are forced to work because they are slaves. If you agree there is zero revenue at 0% tax and 0 revenue (unless you coerce people to work) at 100% taxation then you agree with the Laffer curve.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:46 | 2359513 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Are you seriously trying to defend the Laffer Curve (and the manner in which it was used politically) by using only the two furthest extreme data points?

If so, you're an idiot.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:29 | 2359568 akak
akak's picture

And are YOU, smug and dishonest statist bastard that you are, going to deny the reality of the so-called "Laffer curve"?

The manifest applicability of it is beyond dispute --- what is NOT beyond dispute, however, is where the overall US tax regime fell on that curve, or where it falls on that curve today, as well as the exact shape of that curve itself.  But to deny that rising tax rates, beyond a certain point, will in fact lead to LESS overall tax collections is mindless contrarianism for its own sake ---- which, however, has never stopped you from engaging in such before.

Your consistently pro-statist, elitist arguments and intellectually empty bluster are as uniformly shallow and puerile as is the typical adolescent as (appropriately) represented by your avatar here.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:16 | 2359816 ljag
ljag's picture

Don't hold back...........tell him how your really feel!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:22 | 2359827 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

This Max fucker is one of the biggest douchebags to ever hit ZH.

Talking partisan politics? LOL. What a useless tool he is. 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 20:18 | 2359933 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

But deny that rising tax rates, beyond a certain point, will in fact lead to LESS overall tax collections is mindless contrarianism for its own sake....

That's not even remotely close to what I'm saying.... at all.  

 ...what is NOT beyond dispute, however, is where the overall US tax regime fell on that curve, or where it falls on that curve today, as well as the exact shape of that curve itself.   

WTF?  You CLEARLY do not understand what the Laffer Curve is, either.  *LOL*  Dude....  lol.  JSTFU, for your own sake.  

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi



Fri, 04/20/2012 - 12:39 | 2361486 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

Nothing but crickets, as expected. 

You're a joke, Akak. 

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:11 | 2361837 akak
akak's picture

Oh, was there something in your typically antagonistic and puerile stream of (un)consciousness there to which I was supposed to reply?

You are nothing but a seething mass of hate, contradictions, misinformation and logical fallacies, all wrapped up in a smug and arrogant shell.  If I wanted to truly engage anyone on your emotional and intellectual level, I would go debate the merits of feeding the squirrels and screaming at the pigeons with the homeless in the nearest municipal park.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:17 | 2359598 Umh
Umh's picture

Ok; try 1% and 99%. There; I doubled the data points for ya.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:48 | 2359642 Doña K
Doña K's picture

That doubling reminds me of the question: If it's 0 degrees outside and tomorrow will be twice as cold, what would the temperature be?

BTW: The curve does work to some degree, but it does not make one an expert and brilliant economist. There is no such thing as a brilliant economist. Errr. except Paul krugman /s

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:04 | 2359672 akak
akak's picture

.

If it's 0 degrees outside and tomorrow will be twice as cold, what would the temperature be?

Since you are NEVER going to experience an ambient temperature of true, or absolute, zero, -273 C (not to mention anything even remotely close to it), your question as framed is meaningless.  The "0 degrees" you are referring to, whether on the Celsius or Fahrenheit scale, is arbitrarily defined at that value, and does not represent "0" in any actual, real physical sense.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:06 | 2359694 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Kind of like ZIRP. There really is no lower bound, it's just that the common thinking is that below 0% is bad. Setting rates at -.5% is just about as assinine as setting them at 0%.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:07 | 2359696 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Of course you're right. it's a ponderable to throw people off.

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:20 | 2359735 akak
akak's picture

Oh, I assumed that you were in fact framing that question as merely a rhetorical or semantic irony --- but I have heard and read people actually ponder that same question in a serious manner, never realizing that their "0 degrees" was in fact nothing of the sort.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 02:38 | 2360047 akak
akak's picture

From my two down-arrows above, I guess we have two members here who dispute the concept of absolute zero.

Fascinating.

 

EDIT: Now we have at least four anti-absolute-zeroites!  What the hell is up with me being downarrowed for a simple explanation of the temperature scale?  And has anyone else here noticed an apparently increasing degree of downarrowing mania in these threads?  What, do we now have trolls who just run around downarrowing comments, in the attempt to discredit that poster?

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 07:44 | 2360596 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Its a question of believing in an abstract concept, some do, some don't.

I guess four peeps had some difficulty understanding that.

 

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:13 | 2359571 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Laffer may not be the sharpest tool in the shed - he's not clueless, he's downright WRONG, but he's got a lot of company on the left.  Lots of lefties squawk about the higher tax rates under Clinton, and some especially moronic lefties bring up the tax rates in 60s as "evidence" of the efficacy of higher tax rates on increasing revenue from the rich.  Yeah, that's not misleading.  :-O

Lefties are always squawking about the "rich paying their fair share," but that's not really what they are interested in.  It's strictly misleading propaganda.  Why do I say that?  Well, let's try to at least examine the question at a remedial math level.  How do you think a "C" student would examine the issue?  Do you think he'd look at tax rates and overall revenue to the treasury in order to draw his conclusions?  Not if he wanted to pass math class, he wouldn't.  Might he be smarter to look at the % of overall revenue paid by the top earners as compared to the marginal tax rates in order to find a correlation?  DUH!

When was the last time you saw the % of what the rich paid as compared to the various marginal tax rates?  Hmmm, might the answer be - NEVER!  LOL  Do you wonder why not?  Is it because I'm such a genius that it only occurred to me?  Hmmm, it's tempting to think that ;-), but maybe it's because the top earners are paying a larger and larger share of the overall revenues collected by the government as % tax rates on the rich are reduced.  Unfortunately, a result like this doesn't fit the leftist media narrative, so instead you get error by omission as well as outright lies and propaganda.

Just something to think about for those who actually don't mind thinking.  Use it or lose it people.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:17 | 2359595 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You sound like someone who has no clue what the "Laffer Curve" is.

Good rant, tho.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:37 | 2359621 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

I know exactly what the Laffer Curve is.  Maybe I should've been specific about why I said Laffer was WRONG.  I thought it was rather obvious, or do you not think his .01 bet and economic forecast were just a little off the mark? ;-)  LOL

As to Laffer, meh.  I'm not a fan of supply-siders.  They like to coerce the market in different ways under the basic assumption that "growth" is good.  Well, what if the market doesn't want to grow?  What if people want to pay down debt and save?  That's not really an ideal option for supply-siders, even if that's what the market would dictate absent intervention.

Austrian economics is the most accurate school in terms of analysis of the historical past as well as predictions about the future, which in hindsight are validated by history - in my opinion.  Yes, I know it's an opinion, but I'm certainly not going to attempt to justify and document my belief in this thread.  Disagree with me, and be wrong ;-) if you want to.

Cheers!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:48 | 2359651 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The reason the rich pay such a large percentage of the taxes is they have all the money.  I dunno, maybe you've never seen the charts that break down what the "top 5%" and "bottom 50%" wealth holdings and income-levels look like in the US.

Of course, whenever people talk about "50% pay no taxes," they refer only to income taxes, and when you talk about how the rich pay such a huge proportion of the revenues, you have to subtract out the payroll taxes, which are paid primarily by the folks with more typical income levels.

Ultimately, I can't really make much sense of what you're saying.  I definitely agree with your point that you're no genius, though.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:54 | 2359668 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Why should anybody pay any income taxes? We pay fuel tax we pay for tolls, we pay excise tax for tires and stuff, we pay sales tax, we pay for liscence to fish and hunt to feed ourselves on and on.

History has proven that once taxes go above 50% you eventually have a revolution or a reset.

Reset is coming.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:19 | 2359724 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I don't advocate paying them.  I wish more of the regulars here would just stop, already.

There's just not enough power to enforce anything, that why I'm (overall) feeling pretty positive as an anarchist.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 22:13 | 2360153 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Anarcho-capitalism is the way to go!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 22:58 | 2360235 piceridu
piceridu's picture

You ask: Why should anybody pay any income taxes?

My answers are: Jekyll Island and Aircraft Carriers

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 22:11 | 2360148 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Blunder,

If you can't make much sense out of what I said, then how in your ignorance can you agree that I'm not a genius?  LOL

I'll make it real simple for you.  As a percentage of tax revenue to the government, lower marginal tax rates for the wealthiest historically correspond to them paying a higher percentage of overall revenue.  Can you follow that?

The left screaming about raising rates on the rich because they don't "pay their fair share" is a tired old canard, and please spare me the reductio ad absurdum of ZERO federal tax rates for the wealthy and how that would contradict my assertion.  I am merely speaking in light of the historical record of % tax rate for the wealthy vs % of government revenue paid by the wealthy.

You say:  "The reason the rich pay such a large percentage of the taxes is they have all the money."

You might want to reevaluate your understanding of the tax code.  The tax code primarily targets the ACCUMULATION of wealth.  Those who already have their money rarely pay additional taxes on it.  There are exceptions - death, property taxes...

 

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 10:54 | 2361174 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

   As a percentage of tax revenue to the government, lower marginal tax rates for the wealthiest historically correspond to them paying a higher percentage of overall revenue.

I'd like to see your data, as that's a very simple assertion to evaluate.

   The tax code primarily targets the ACCUMULATION of wealth.

No, that's wrong.  It targets various FLOWS of money.  The poor and working classes don't generally accumulate significant wealth but still pay significant portions of their income to the government as taxes.

You've got the simple stuff completely backwards.  People whose incomes are, say, $40,000/year and less, which is roughly 50% of the population in the US, spend every dollar on paying for food, housing, and energy.  They don't pay the largest share of the overall tax-revenues because all their money is already spent.

The folks whose incomes are, say, $100,000,000/year and more, which is less than 0.01% of the population, pay a relatively small percentage of total tax revenues because there are so few of them.

The "sweet spot" is at the top end of the working-class--right after the income bracket caps (at the absurdly low level of ~$150,000).  There is still a large number of people in this income-range (call it 15% of the population).

But that's not "rich."  The "rich" often don't pay income taxes at all, and they derive by far the greatest benefit from the secure governance of society, but the RELATIVE PERCENTAGE OF TAXES they pay are far lower than the working classes beneath them.  "Rich" means: working or not working cannot affect their standard of living.  The "lefties" happen to be absolutely correct to point out that they're the ones who don't pay their fair share. 

It's just too tiny number of people to worry much about them, and the fact is, when you're rich, you've got the power to elude any government's collection attempts anyway.  Money trumps legislation every time.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:41 | 2359504 GernB
GernB's picture

Please explain which part of the Laffer Curve you disagree with:

1) That there will be no tax revenue at a 0% tax rate

2) That there will be no tax revenue at a 100% tax rate because people wiill choose not to work without pay.

3) That at some point inbetween you have non-zero tax revenue.

The Laffer Curve is just common sense. In a free society nobody will work for nothing and you can't get tax revenue at a rate 0.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:48 | 2359518 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

No tax revenue at a 0% tax rate?  I assume you refer to income tax rate. If so, could you explain to me how our Federal Government obtained revenue prior to the 1913 income tax?  It is not a trick question either.  They sure as hell had revenue coming in the door for nearly 100 years, minus the short Civil War tax dishonest Abe Lincoln foisted upon the plebes.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:52 | 2359528 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Please see my comment above.

And please take at look at our tax revenue and deficit after 10 years of Bush tax cuts.  There is FAR MORE to tax revenue than this stupid, overly simplistic visual which was deliberately designed to fool the dumb masses.  Just because point A is known and point Z is known doesn't mean we can draw any curve between B through Y and call it fact or "common sense."  

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:24 | 2359614 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

That's not the Laffer Curve, that's the Laffer Assertion.

It's got to be a 2D plot to qualify as a curve.  The one Laffer drew on the napkin was what was so totally wrong, bogus, misleading, bullshit.

It's the difference between the Assertion and the Curve that's the source of your cute little slapping match with that other asshole.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:20 | 2359734 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Federal revenues can come from hundreds of sources: printing and coining money, fees, tariffs, interest income, sale/lease of land and resources, arbitrage trading, mercenary action, fines, commodity trading activities, energy and strategic material sales, fines, levies, and foreign exchange swaps. 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:59 | 2359350 It is a bargin ...
It is a bargin my friend's picture

Schiff...Legend

Man who looks weird....Cunt

Michelle Lasagne....Doable

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:23 | 2359437 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Lately I have only been replying to comments that mention Becky Quick...

 

That being said, Michelle-Caruso-Cabrera-Whatever is fucking nails. I'll bet she fucks like a crack whore.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:36 | 2359492 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Speaking of crack-whore, where's your son been hiding lately?

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:05 | 2359536 akak
akak's picture

Watching the Dow hit and surpass 12,000 put RobotLemming into permanent masturbation mode --- and which, despite all his wild bragging, is probably the only form of sex he has ever experienced.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 23:29 | 2360252 prole
prole's picture

Wait: There is another form?   Of sex?

BTW Schiff is a sage .. an oracle

Laffer is a Max Fischer size douche bag. A joke wrapped up in a bag of elephant droppings. If he ever shows his face on TV again he should wear sack-cloth and deeply apologize to Schiff for his arrogance and stupidity.

You should do the Same Max before your next paid troll offal dropped on this website

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:04 | 2359570 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

Isn't every talking head on CNBC a QE crack whore?

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:55 | 2359354 TwoJacks
TwoJacks's picture

this was about the time that I stopped watching cnbc.  these types of conversations were just too painful to endure

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:55 | 2359355 Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture

WHERE IS THIS MORRON TODAY?

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:08 | 2359391 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Incredibly, still making appearences on CNBS!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:32 | 2359477 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Ted, just between us... it's m-o-r-o-n....

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:57 | 2359677 The Third Man
The Third Man's picture

or M-ar-o-o-n! (if you're Bugs Bunny)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:57 | 2359357 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

I went to a discussion of Michelle Caruso-Cabrera's for school once, and let me just say, those cans are very impressive in person.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:08 | 2359397 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Maybe so, but she's starting to get a face for radio.

She's a pitching wedge........good from 125 yards.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:25 | 2359440 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

"starting to"??

 

Heck, the CIA replaced waterboarding with a picture of her face...even Cheney said it's inhumaine.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:29 | 2359468 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Yeah but those Fun Bags are as phony as fiat money. Flesh backed by nothing but plastic and saline.

And I did not even mention PIGS.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:02 | 2359784 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

Nah,they're real.  She mentioned that she used to be fat. Those are ex-fat girl titties.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:57 | 2359358 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Oldie but a goodie. Wonder if Schiff ever got that penny.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:06 | 2359387 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

He didn't.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:19 | 2359418 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Turns out Laffer rehypothicated that penny.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:06 | 2359390 Milton William ...
Milton William Cooper's picture

He didn't
schiffradio.com

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:31 | 2359471 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

after the dust settled, I doubt Laffer even had a penny left.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:55 | 2359544 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Here is Art responding to this bet.  This was on Bill Maher Show March 2009. http://fliiby.com/file/311438/by14vav6k8.html

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 15:58 | 2359363 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Laffer is an idiot. I can't wait until Schiff is proven right on the larger picture.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:50 | 2359526 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Most recently he indicated a time frame sometime within the next two years.  Based on his 2007/08 prediction on the depression he may be right again timing wise.  Interest rate rise where interest on the debt eats up federal taxes or keeping rates low through money cunting is the only question I have regardingthe implossion.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:00 | 2359367 i love cholas
i love cholas's picture

Thank god for Youtube

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:00 | 2359372 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Watch the top ticker...

Gold = $623.00

Silver = $12.02

Meanwhile, Art Laffer has disappeared from the MSM.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:01 | 2359374 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Damn, that was actually tough to watch. Laffer made an absolute fool of himself there.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:19 | 2359730 pirea
pirea's picture

but you know what?

this guy can sleep well even if you show him every day this clip.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:06 | 2359389 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

That was wonderful. At least the Apocalypse will be televised.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:09 | 2359395 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Laffer suffers from the same disease most economists and analysts do today: a self-righteous sense of security about their own ability to understand and predict the markets. You never hear them say 'I could be wrong' this on itself is an indicator to be cautious.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:36 | 2359488 Decolat
Decolat's picture

The President kept on saying in 2008 that 'everything is fine, the economy is great, nothing to worry about'... when he KNEW that everything was FUBAR'd. I got laid off from a small business delivery job March 2009.

 

That's when I quit listening to anything MSM or the gubmint had to say. It's all propaganda to keep us in line and to keep us from thinking for ourselves. That's what TPTB fear the most.

I'll bet money that Laffer always knew he was spewing shit.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 09:26 | 2360815 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

"I've never seen an economy as strong as this one"

Hank Paulson - 2006 AND 2007

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:13 | 2359404 MGA_1
MGA_1's picture

 

Spectacular monetary policy ?

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:24 | 2359444 Belarusian Bull
Belarusian Bull's picture

Classic.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:25 | 2359445 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Announcer says: "Some people and their "economic theories" hold up nicely over that most torturous test.... the test of... time.

Others? Not so much" {cue Laffer soundtrack HERE}

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:25 | 2359448 Titan Uranus
Titan Uranus's picture

What's Laffer's recommendation now - load up on Greek bonds?

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:25 | 2359454 Cocomaan
Cocomaan's picture

Fuck Laffer. Ibn Khaldun came up with the Laffer curve centuries ago.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:28 | 2359458 geewhiz190
geewhiz190's picture

Laffer's thesis was and is the basis for The republican party's economic thought.  His ideas are what paved the way for Ronald Reagan to cut taxes without cutting spending and allowing the deficit to explode. reagan carried with him the ideas he had put into effect in California as govenor. His mentor was Howard jarvis who   organized propostion 13( written by laffer) which also cut revenues while allowing spending to expand. (look at california's finances now) The first George Bush called it "Voodo economics" How right he was.  Now we have both current presidential candidates essentially on the same side but from different angels. One won't cut spending, the other won't increase revenues. 2 plus 2 will never equal 5. What a mess. i wonder when the  trickle down" will finally get here.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:28 | 2359619 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    cut taxes without cutting spending

No, no.  It's "cut taxes and INCREASE spending."  That's been the Republican play since Reagan.  The Democrats like to INCREASE taxes and increase spending.

There's a common element there.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:45 | 2359876 Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

"Since Reagan"??????????

Sure, the government never spent more than it took in before "Raygun."

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 10:56 | 2361179 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

That's kind of a stupid thing to say.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:28 | 2359460 Jason T
Jason T's picture

classic stuff.  Schiff and Ron Paul, who I'm about to go see at Cornell! are both renegades who don't drink coolaid.

 

Ron Paul!!  

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:27 | 2359462 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

LOL

Good video. Thanks TD

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:28 | 2359466 truont
truont's picture

"I'll bet you a penny on this one, Peter...it's not gonna be a crash..."

I hope Laffer has since brushed up on what "normalcy bias" is...

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:32 | 2359476 Apostle of Unknown
Apostle of Unknown's picture

Give him the penny you cheap f*ck.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:35 | 2359478 XXL66
XXL66's picture

Art Laffer now writes for http://www.investors.com

Check it out.

And take a look at this :

http://www.buygoldco.com/arthur-laffer-predictions/

 

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:40 | 2359500 theTribster
theTribster's picture

Wow, pretty painful. Art is and always has been an idiot.. He didn't pay the penny, he was actually on bill Maher and admitted he did not pay the moeny.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:41 | 2359501 Ellesmere
Ellesmere's picture

Arrogant bastard wasn't he ?

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:40 | 2359515 devo
devo's picture

.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:46 | 2359516 Logans_Run
Logans_Run's picture

I used to work at a consulting organization where this guy was on our Board of Advisors. What an embarrassment!

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:50 | 2359524 Catflappo
Catflappo's picture

Wow - I would NEVER have guessed that the anchor would side with the guy who had it all wrong!    Hell, the idiot even threw a "Thank you Michelle" into the mix!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:12 | 2359813 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The thing about Michelle is , she is supposed to be the libertarian.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:56 | 2359551 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

Peter Schiff is one smart guy!!!

Between, "Kermit the Frog - Kernan" and Michelle 'Caboose' Cabrera, this laughter-guy fits in perfectly, where three isn't a crowd.

always ganging-up against the right opinion - buttering their burnt toast  via CNBC,... daily BS ala carte! 

honestly,... if not for Becky and the Rickster, i'd never watch the show.

The Show?

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:00 | 2359558 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

I agree with Laffer, debt doesn't matter.

 

Until it does.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 16:59 | 2359563 Raincheck
Raincheck's picture

Simple.  Laffer is a fucking idiot.  And to think that people have paid for this embeciles perspective.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:00 | 2359567 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

"but the EXACT OPPOSITE happened under Clinton - higher taxes cut the deficit... DUH!"

LOWER taxes (of 15%, on capital gains) encouraged people to cash in on (realize) profits on lots of capital (stocks, etc) they'd been holding for years or even decades. THAT is what sent gov revenue soaring, not "higher taxes."

from the Department of Corrections

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:06 | 2359575 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Laugher....

Once an asshat, always an asshat.... An economic false prophet of the highest order..

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:06 | 2359577 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Classic last line!

Schiff:  "..cause all the dollar is going to be worth, is a penny!"

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:20 | 2359606 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

Idiots like Laffer really do believe that if you increase the money supply, you increase wealth.  Schiff is correct when he says money (and debt) is not real wealth.  Although Schiff was mostly correct, he had no idea the Federal Reserve would could interest rates down like they've been able to do.

 

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:18 | 2359723 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

"Although Schiff was mostly correct, he had no idea the Federal Reserve would could interest rates down like they've been able to do."

 

Schiff was 100% correct, not "mostly" correct, and OF COURSE he knew the Fed could zero out interest rates, "like they've been able to do" (all it takes is a news conference MrBoompi - did you think the Fed pulled off some amazing feat or something?)

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:22 | 2359608 Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

Schiff was laughed at on "Bulls and Bears" on Fox news as well over the housing market...

Dec. 16, 2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HFNJw7xGSA

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:42 | 2359631 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

This thing comes across like a hollywood movie! Schiff is correct on everyting he mentions which makes it appear unreal. One guy telling it like it was and then the stooge clown, making fun and laughing and betting stupid bets like a penny just to be obtuse, trying to distract people long enough to not believe. Oh hahahaha, so funny. So sick of people who talk comically for protection of their ignorance.

And of course then there's Wichypoo trying to turn common sense into a woman's issue. More distraction. Schiff never said anything about woman not having the right to work. He basically said Who wouldn't want to have the opportunity to stay home and raise their children! It's the opportunity that's lost not the fact that both people WANT they're stinking jobs! Afterall it's only biological that a woman gives birth so obvioulsly that person would want to stay home, or not. But of course mole face turns it into a woman's right issue and blaber fest.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:27 | 2359749 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

My thoughts EXACTLY. Anywhere you find a man who thinks for himself and speaks truth even if it's not popular, you'll find a few others, or some mob, ridiculing his ideas (or more likely, HIM) with hollow platitudes, ad hominem attacks, the obtuse, etc etc. ANYTIME you witness that, it's usually a very good bet the one standing alone is RIGHT, and all those jackals laughing and hoohawing are WRONG. There's nothing I despise more than a COWARDLY phuck who seeks affirmation from the mob - and before any of YOU say "me too!" there are plenty of you stupid cowards here too, WAY too quick to let your eagle mouths outrun your turtle brains and to act all thin-skinned and upset whenever someone states a fact that seems to derail your latest little circle jerk (Xenofrog's recent bravery in the face of a whole flock of idiotic coward-sheep here comes to mind.) You know who you are.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 08:21 | 2360642 o2sd
o2sd's picture

My experience is that there is nothing more dangerous than certainty. Even Peter Schiff got burned by central bank intervention. In the end, you gotta play the odds, but it's hard to beat the dealer.

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:49 | 2359648 thechainrule
thechainrule's picture

..THE Adamms Family. That's all I could think about when I saw Laffer.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:55 | 2359670 Cheduba
Cheduba's picture

I think I started writing my post just before you posted.  Glad we're on the same page! 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:52 | 2359657 Cheduba
Cheduba's picture

All I could think of while watching this is what a piece of $@!# Laffer is.  So pale, he looks like he just crawled out of the grave.

Rock on Peter Schiff and I can never show enough gratitude that someone has been and will continue to be out there standing up to the Mafia in the MSM.

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:32 | 2359752 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

LAFFER looks bad? You hypocrite! Look at you! All wide-eyed like a deer in the headlights, wires attached to your eyelids, screaming like you're watching something real horrowshow! I'm WAY better looking! LOL

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 17:55 | 2359669 HD
HD's picture

 I bet they wont be replaying this clip on Kudlow...

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:10 | 2359705 Let them all fail
Let them all fail's picture

Thanks for posting, same conversation could almost be had today aside from the RE side of things already collapsing - good reminder not to listen to someone just because they have a fancy title and are on TV - Hard to imagine that guy ever advising a president, but it seems most economic advisors are now debt-addicted dumbasses with no LT view

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:22 | 2359736 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

Women love raising kids and working at the same time.  All of them, every single one.  No matter how bad their jobs sucks or how little they get paid.  Love love love to work and raise kids at the same time, double shifts even.  Fuck sleep.  Working for the man and raising kids, da bomb, especially a good ol' tax collecting corporation, the more stress the better.

It would suck to stay home and take care of those rug rats, drop em off with the nanny and head to the studio to film Mr. and Mrs. Smith, what's not to like.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:52 | 2359772 HD
HD's picture

Indeed. The majority of working women (and men for that matter) are not out building a career at their dream job - they work because they have no other choice. In 1970 one income was enough to have a comfortable middle class life - now you need two incomes just to keep the wolves away from the door.

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:26 | 2359743 poor fella
poor fella's picture

That was Beautiful!! 

Had to watch it twice. Thing is, if we recorded EVERY single day of CNBC, we could look forward to the same laughs into infinatum.

They were GIDDY on Tuesday. Wish I recorded the love-fest because it was comical. I thought the Najarians were going to put on flapper dresses and do a little chorus line to "Happy Days Are Here Again!!!"

 

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:35 | 2359755 nothing can go wrogn
nothing can go wrogn's picture

Mamas don't let yer babies grow up to be economists.

Economists have never been loved and their heart has grown cold.
They'd rather give you paper than silver or gold.
Shiny bald heads and stiff looking suits,
And each night begins a new day.
If you can't understand him, he meant it that way,
He'll prob'ly just sneak away with all yer money.

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be economists.
Don't let 'em read Keynes or talk on the TeeVee.
Let 'em be farmers and cowboys and such.
Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be economists.
'Cos they'll steal your home and give you the bone.
Even to someone they love.

Economists like pyramid schemes and think Ponzi's the king,
Little warm puppies and children are left broke.
Them that don't know him won't like him and them that do don't either,
Cause he's just an ivy league prick.
He's wrong, and full of shit but the money changers won't let him,
Tell you things he knows is right.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:52 | 2359770 bobm2626
bobm2626's picture

1st they "laff"er at you

then they fight you

then they lose...

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 23:23 | 2360269 prole
prole's picture

Then they get laughed at by ZHers and never show their face on TV again!

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:03 | 2359794 deepthoughtless
deepthoughtless's picture

I think more of the problem than most people realize is not the health of "job creators" and their companies (or their greed and tyranny), but our dependence on them. A substantial portion of our government expdenditure goes to two things: Supporting large busninesses, and compensating the poor and middle class for the wealth extracted by those large businesses. We can complain until we're blue in the face about how we were laid off, how the government or the Chinese took our jobs, but that's energy that should be spend trying to create something on our own, which we can then contribute to the economy around us.

"Job creators" use our skills as employees to deliver a product or service to the world around us. Why not cut out the middle man? The answer is, of course, fear. Fear of failure. Fear of responsibility. Fear of success. It's so much easier to do what one is told. To show up for 8 hours, five days a week. Look at what you do for a living and ask why you're not in charge. Why you aren't running the business. Why you wait for someone to give you your paycheck, and complain about how the government took 8% and only gave back 3% come tax day. What's YOUR excuse for living like that? 

New Rule: Every time you complain about how someone else robbed you of your economic prospects, you have to try to start a business selling widgets or teaching fidgets.

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:23 | 2359832 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Funny thing is this clip could play today and not be far off.  I believe we have more to give in the markets and housing and we still are upside down on the savings vs. borrowing/producing vs. consuming ratios.  The debt problem is BIGGER than ever and a massive consumption contraction is coming in many unnecessary areas.

Why don't they bring these guys on again so we can see the settlement of the bet.  Laffer will never come on again with Peter.

Side note:  Did you notice that Michelle completely lost it when Peter mentioned a traditional family thought about moms that like to stay at home with the most important thing they have in the world.  She couldn't think about or remember anything else that was said after that comment.  Feminazi for sure!  My wife loves staying at home and would consider it a huge sacrifice if she had to go back into the "work" force.  We would move, sell our house, get a cheaper car, eat twice a day, whatever it took to keep the structure that we have now.  We didn't have our children so we could work and someone else could raise them.........damn sure not this nanny state!

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