Bob Janjuah: "It's Only Just Begun" - Sees S&P 500 "Fair Value" At 800-900

Tyler Durden's picture

Bob Janjuah's brief infatuation with groundless optimism is gone. Bob the real Bear is back.

It's Only Just Begun

To kick-off, please be careful about taking too seriously views which claim that the markets, over the last few weeks and months, are over-reacting, or views that claim that markets are behaving in a surprising manner. Whilst precise timing has surprised even me a little – see below – anyone who has followed my work or Kevin?s work over the last few months and more broadly since late 2006/early 2007 will know two things. First, rather than an over-reaction we both feel that markets are, finally, beginning to price in the kind of „new normal? which we have talked about for years. The one where weak trend growth and fast-deteriorating policy credibility and poor policy effectiveness are the norm. This process has only just begun. It will not be a straight line down, but the secular (bearish) trend for risk assets is, to me, now clear and, with hindsight, this bear leg began in Q2 2011. Second, the drivers of this bearish secular trend are precisely those which we have been writing about at length over the last 10 months, so one should not see any of this as a surprise. Turning now to a number of more detailed thoughts:

1. I was wrong on the very short-term tactical call. I got greedy. I was looking for one last mini bull-run up in risk as the perfect set-up ahead of the resumption of the secular bear. I felt that sentiment and positioning were pointing to one more move higher. Also, S&P moved its US sovereign rating at least a quarter before I had expected. Nonetheless, I am mighty glad I refined and highlighted my S&P 1280 bear alert level/stop loss in my last note in July. Phew!

2. To reiterate, I am bearish on a secular basis, and in the big picture we have now commenced the third leg. Leg 1 was the nasty bear from the Q3 07 highs to the Q1 09 lows. Leg 2 was the policy-funded rally from Q1 09 to Q2 11. This Leg 3 will, I think, last deep into 2012, and likely beyond. We are in a balance sheet recession which will take at least 2 to 3 more years to clean up. The cost of capital will keep rising. The outcome is weak trend growth – I feel 1% pa on a 2 to 3 year basis in the balance sheet impaired West is the central case. Soft patches will be the norm. Cushions against economic shocks will be thin/non-existent. Aggregate real Earnings and Incomes will stagnate/fall. Defaults (amongst weak balance sheet corporates, consumers, AND sovereigns) will rise and P/Es will fall. In this world, and using the S&P 500 purely as a risk proxy, I see ‘fair value’ for the S&P down in the 800/900 area. I think we will see these levels trade in the next 12/15 months. And we may even „undershoot? to levels last seen at the lows of Q1 09. For this year I still expect – as I have said all year – that between now and end 2011 the S&P will trade, as a low print, in the low-1000s.

3. In my view the market remains too optimistic and full of hope. In particular the sell-side remains too hopeful on trend growth. (I think Q2 11 US GDP will be revised down heavily, and H2 11 and 2012 expectations are, I think, way too high.) Further, the sell-side remains way too addicted to policy and policy makers. Over the next year I feel that all the things we have talked about all year – weak trend growth in the West, growth risks in EM as the focus remains on combating inflation and excessive credit creation, euro zone restructuring, and fast diminishing policy maker credibility, policy ineffectiveness and policy options - will get priced into markets and asset prices. These last few weeks and months are the beginning of this process.

As I write all eyes - for now - seem to be focussed on Bernanke and Jackson Hole. Why? I don’t know. After all, QE2 was – in the eyes of, many - a dramatic failure. Bernanke will likely disappoint the more bullish expectations with his Jackson Hole speech, but as I have said all year QE3 is coming in late 2011/early 2012, once S&P trades at 1000 and once the unemployment rate hits 10%. However, if QE3 comes as a de facto redux of QE2, then this will I feel be a major policy error. It may „help? markets for few short weeks, but in reality such QE3 will force EM to slow down even harder (China hard landing anyone?) as such a form of QE3 will simply reignite food and energy price inflation for EM. And for the West such QE3 will simply act as an even bigger de facto tax on the Western consumer. All at a time when „official? fiscal policy is already being tightened in the West. I think that any QE3 which is a de facto redux of QE2 will be a critical step towards a collapse in policymaker credibility amongst the markets and amongst the real economy.

4. The secular bear market will not be a straight line down in my opinion. Short sharp counter trend rallies will occur, but the secular trend will be clear. Such rallies will sometimes be driven by the occasional „strong? patch in global growth. But in particular look out for Fed QE3 (as mentioned above), and QE2 in the UK (I think the UK has a more credible case for more QE than the Fed). Fed QE3 (see above) late in 2011/early 2012 will likely drive the sharpest such counter trend rally. And markets will likely seriously start pricing it in beforehand, likely once S&P hits low-1000s and once (even) the (official) unemployment rate hits 10%. Such a QE3 may see the S&P move from the low-1000s (my long stated low target for the S&P for 2011, which I expect to see in the next 2 months) back up to say 1200.

QE1 had a useful shelf life of about 12 months and about 600 S&P points. For QE2 this useful shelf life was six months and worth about 300 S&P points, and the period of ‘usefulness’ expired well before QE2 ‘officially’ ended. So, for any QE3 which is merely a de facto extension of QE2, I’d expect it to have the same half-life and thus a useful shelf life of, at best, three months and be worth no more than 150 S&P points. Very tradable, but a mere blip in the bigger picture. Such QE3 will not work to achieve sustainable (even just) ‘OK’ growth, and it will just be another example of the fact that policymakers continue to misdiagnose and thus mistreat our problems. Such QE3 will simply be another example of the gross misallocation of capital by Western policymakers. This ugly policy error is getting the expected response from the real economy and the private sector - they are „hunkering down? and getting prepared for bad times ahead. Time, and ultimately the rejection of the print/pump/borrow/spend policy framework, still deeply embedded in the West, will be the cures and will drive, in time, a sustainable recovery led by the private, and not public, sector.

In the euro zone, the options are clear I think. It’s either full, explicit fiscal union where Germany and the inner core pay up. Or we end up with a ‘neue-euro zone’ in which certainly three, and perhaps more, of the existing members of the current club – those with the weakest balance sheets – are „ejected? from the euro zone (not from the Euro) and put under some form of multi-year „conservatorship? for 3/5 years, during which time these economies undergo meaningful debt and economic restructuring, with conditional assistance from Brussels and the ECB. This means genuine default and real bondholder losses. I cannot see any other solution.

Full fiscal union is many years away. So genuine and meaningful debt and real economy restructuring seem to me the only choice realistically. The longer we wait, the lower the recovery and the bigger the risk that three goes to five or maybe even six existing members. The sooner the euro zone gets “fixed” real the sooner we can move on. If we can get to this point quickly, then I am pretty certain that markets will be pleased to see a sustainable resolution and this, as well as US QE3 or UK QE2, will be an outcome which can also drive a short sharp counter trend.

5. So, what should investors do? On a two to three year timeframe, the old rule applies. Focus on and favour strong balance sheet entities, whether its government debt, consumer debt or corporate equities. Strong balance sheet, large cap global blue chip non-financial equities and debt will I think offer the best relative value and best risk reward. On a one-year timeframe I would be extremely risk-averse and outright bearish. And in the very short term, I look for a low-1000s S&P print this year, but thereafter I would also be expecting, as discussed above, to see one last policy-fed hurrah which could see, as a proxy, the S&P up at 1200 by end 2011/Q1 2012. Gold should continue to ramp up, largely irrespective of what happens to commodities in general, as on a two- to three-year timeframe we are – I am sure – going to move away from fiat money and the failed economic thinking of the last 30 years. For now I do not have any strong FX call – I think 2013 could well be the year in which we get the major global currency/money paradigm shift which will be a core part of the longer term solution to our global growth and Western debt ills, but this is a topic for discussion later. As for core rates – the US, the UK and the inner core euro zone - on a 12 month basis I can see 10yr government yields in the US UK and Germany down at 1.5%, maybe lower. If my nearer-term 2011 S&P target is going to prove correct (low-1000s target) then expect such 10 year yields to break below 2% and perhaps even 1.75%. On a QE-fed counter trend risk rally, core governments will of course sell off, maybe to mid-2s in yield terms. On a 12 month horizon I suspect this will be a great entry point.

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hugovanderbubble's picture

Sell French banks

Sell Italian banks

Sell UK banks

Sell Spanish banks

Stumpy's picture

Don't you forget Canadian banks? Word on the street is that they're not as good as canucks might think.

spiral_eyes's picture

s&p 800-900

wtf is bob ganja smoking?

s&p 400-500 more like. 

HCSKnight's picture

Priced in the average of 1990 to 95 USDs, the S&P is right now ~935...

PulauHantu29's picture

Wait until Canadian RE starts to hit reality.....that's when their Bubble meets the Pin.

DefiantSurf's picture

you must be talking to the FED and US Banks? I think their the only ones holding that steaming pile of shit


Ruffcut's picture

Fair? More like bair market again.

Better yet, a rabbit market. Going straight down the jackson hole.

IQ 145's picture

"On a two to three year  timeline, t he old rules apply, focus on strong balance sheets---" What a complete load of useless crap. This person has no more idea how to survive in a major market than my little sister. Some of the worst newsletter quality shit I'ive ever seen. Meaningless mouth noises.

Manthong's picture

"focus on strong balance sheets"

Kind of like "reach for a strong stanchion".. on the Titanic.


John McCloy's picture

 I still think we go through the 2009 S&P low like butter but then again priced in gold we are essentially already there.

SheepDog-One's picture

Yep, really are already there, just this free ZIRP trillions sloshing around that has PUMPED it all up, now theyre talking about 'cleaning up our balance sheets' since theyve been doing the exact opposite for last 3 years propping it all up blowing a bubble on their balance sheets?

This is all just retarded.

HCSKnight's picture

Priced in the average of 90-95 USDs, the S&P is ~935...

Popo's picture

I'm trying to re-like Janjuah.   But after watching him trans-mutate into a slimy British banker dick and go bullish -- it's going to take more than a repeat of what *everyone* is now saying.

Bob -- once you were prescient.  Now you've got your hat in your hand, and you're late to the party.

slaughterer's picture

Bob, usually very good, fucked up his last short-term tactical call.   Now his long-term strategic call comes too late for much reward. 

IMA5U's picture

too much gloom and doom out there


the kommunists will do everything they can to squeeze the shorts

SheepDog-One's picture

Longs about to get squeezed big time by a python, namely the 401K and pensioners, and they dont suspect a thing. No QE folks, the house of crap is about to tumble.

jedimarkus's picture

These price targets, high or low, are irrelevant and downright stupid.  The HAL 9000s are in charge and they sold Accenture at a penny so don't tell me there is anything called "fair value".  That is for fund managers to justify their actions to their directors and clients....  All of it is worth nothing and worth everything... all supply and demand.  valuation... what a silly arcane concept.  For the love of God, all this crap is backed by a fiat currency in the first place!  Just another PSYOP in the global system...

LoneStarHog's picture

"We are in a balance sheet recession which will take at least 2 to 3 more years to clean up." -- Whatever you are smoking, pal, pass it around.

Spastica Rex's picture

Yeah, five maybe six years total. Lost decade my ass. Suck it, Japan. USA! USA! USA!

alexwest's picture

well, why is 800-900pp fair value?

i dont get it.. FED is out of bullets. .fine.. problem is NOBODY FUCKING  SEEMS TO NOTICE HUGE ELEFANT IN THE ROOM called federal deficit..


we are in ressesion.. so tax receipts are instead of running 0%  y/y goona be down 5-10%.. so

next years deficit is going to be 2$ trln at least..


HOW ARE WE GONNA DEAL W/ THAT? did mr whatever_ his name  and market itself discount perpetual 15% GDP deficits ? doubt it..


so peaking   random number is useless... fiscal pucture is getting worse and worse.. only plausible solution is increase taxes in short run...  did market discount that too?



SheepDog-One's picture

400 is optimistic fair value.

Spastica Rex's picture

I consider myself optimistic and I say 350. Nah, I'm just kidding, I'm really not optimistic.

Paper CRUSHer's picture

Ah-Ah-Ah SheepyDawg,

Bro,one-tenth ounce o'gold for SPX.

SheepDog-One's picture

Oh we're going to 'clean up our balance sheets' now that we've been propping them up with trillions in free 0% interest money? Load of BS!

Oh regional Indian's picture

Knock knock Bob, there is a WAR coming. 2-3 years. Hah. Months maybe to Mayhem.

Wakey wakey Bob. 


Spastica Rex's picture

I'm trying to figure out how they're going to run a war this time. How does one cull the herd but not poison the pasture?

Oh regional Indian's picture

SR, in their fantasy world, their survival will be in underground bunkers/tunnel systems and what not. Will wait out the 100 years below ground.

First off, what a god-forsaken mind-set and second, good luck wit dat, eh!


SheepDog-One's picture

Theyll all be at each others throats within 2 weeks.

Spastica Rex's picture

Sounds like the science fiction stories I read as a kid. Do they still have neutron bombs? What are the long term radiation effects of those? I can't see the elite living in tunnels for a hundred years. Maybe the war will be fought by a multitude of irregular armies with small arms, all against each other. Help the plebs kill themselves, assisted suicide.

john39's picture

the elites are fucked.  they just don't know it yet.  going to be fun to watch.

Oh regional Indian's picture

SR, at least some of it is true. The seed vault in the Antartic, funded by Gates, Monsanto, Cargill and a bunch of "Governments, mostly northern european, the 1,000 year vault. And then there is Denver, spooky city. The whole  thing.

If they can build one, why not 1,000? Lot's of drug slush money sloshing around and lots of complicit MIC contractors happy to play if paid. Big. 

Science fiction always becomes science fact, ne?

Vivek (ORI)

MoneyWise's picture

Ones Markets are up Doomsters
Bullshit pops up. S$P LOW-HIGH Target 12500-14000 by Year End.

SheepDog-One's picture

WOW really! BACK to the R/E insane bubble top in a few months! 

snowball777's picture

<--- dumbest post of the day, if not year

<--- no, he and altucher are savants, you just need to squint harder

Spastica Rex's picture

"Idiot Savant" is pejorative. Even if you didn't say "idiot," we knew what you meant.

MoneyWise's picture

We have September to f* around and then Markets
move much higher, Watch and learn, dumbass..
If you don't like stocks, this doesn't mean that S&P
should fall to 800, cause it's already at 800 (USD wise), inflation adjusted

snowball777's picture

14000 (note the 3rd zero)?!

I like stocks just fine...I fondly remember when I used to buy's this "market" I fucking hate.

Post bookmarked; see you in November, chuckles.

Ruffcut's picture

A huge market ramp, is not impossible. Over half the wealth in the world is "pump" money.

First chase every sane person out at a loss.

Then ramp the ever living fuck out of it. Fuck billions when you could raise trillions. Inflation will go a little nuts, but they will be stick saved on the top level. THe inflation is only bad, in their minds, when they release too much phoney money into the main street markets.

When the low of march 2009 was manufactured, banks like wells fucko bought the shit out of the bottom.  It saved their ass. Buffy went crawling to goldie and became more towards an investment bank.

Could it happen? Sure, but not against doomsters.

Spastica Rex's picture

This is just beginner trolling. Really bad spelling errors are a give away. No subtlety or art here,  just keyboard banging. It will take much more than this to create real entertainment.

Flakmeister's picture

Would you not say that the Hedge is a jaded tough crowd?

A while back Calculated Risk viewship (thread comments) were a great contrarian indicator for the market. ZH has all but morphed into the same for the PMs....I used Monday to sell some close to the money weekly GLD calls for relatively massive premium....

adr's picture

Well the 100 point plus morning rally i in full effect again.  the total skitzoid market doesn't know what it wants to do. Who really bids up Amazon $12 in thus environment?

Crude is up and down at the same time. The Yen is up after being down. Bank of Amerika is almost even for the morning.

Is SODA higher? Is this a Cramer bought rally?

SheepDog-One's picture

JH in a few days and theyre popping markets +100 QE folks, about to see a huge planned crash. 'To clean up our balance sheets' as Bob Janjua would say. 401K and pensioners, prepare to get bent over big time.

mynhair's picture

What happened to the leading '1' in that range?