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Brent At $126 As Israel Security Cabinet Votes 8 To 6 To Attack Iran

Tyler Durden's picture


Looking at the tranquil sea that is the S&P one may be forgiven to ignore the rapid intraday surge in Brent which was up over $3 in a few hours, approaching $126 once again. But why? After all the FOMC minutes were oh so very slightly hawkish, and not to mention that the Fed's scribe Hilsenrath told everyone at best the Fed would proceed with sterilized QE which would leave risk prices untouched. Maybe it has something to do with this. According to Israel's NRG, in a just completed cabinet vote, for the first time Netanyahu has gotten a majority (8 over 6) supporting an Iran attack. NRG also notes that at this point Israel has decided to not wait until the US elections in November before proceeding with sending crude to the stratosphere. From NRG (google translated): "Israeli political sources believe that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a majority Cabinet support Israeli military action against Iran without American approval....He announced that he would not hesitate to perform the operation without the approval of President Obama mentioned the precedent of the decision to attack the Iraqi reactor, Prime Minister Menachem Begin, and with the comments heard yesterday some cabinet ministers say privately that "It sounds like a speech preparation for attack." Political - Security Cabinet 14 ministers. According to estimates, at this stage tend to support Netanyahu and
Barak's approach eight ministers, and six against it
(including the traditional opponents octet: Moshe Ya'alon, Dan Meridor, Benny Begin and Eli Yishai).
" So... $4.00 gas is just around the corner. As is, probably, $5.00 gas. And $6.00 gas.

And from Richard Silverstein's blog:

Just when you thought it was safe to come out from your air raid shelter after Bibi returned from his U.S. foray to stoke up war fever, Maariv raises the temperature to a boiling point.  Ben Caspit reports (Hebrew) that the cabinet now has, for the first time, a majority (eight votes for, six votes against) favoring the measure.  This means that theoretically Bibi can begin an attack at any time.  Of course, it could mean something different: it could mean the cabinet has approved a strike at any point in future with Bibi determining the timing.  So it doesn’t necessarily mean the F-16s will fly tonight or tomorrow.  But it could:


Cabinet Majority Supports Iran Attack


The prime minister yesterday delivered one of the most combative and explicit speeches in the history of the Iran affair.  Several cabinet ministers said in private conversations that it sounded like a “speech preparing for war.”


Political sources judge that the prime minister has a majority in the cabinet which favors a military strike against Iran, even without American approval.  Yesterday, Netanyahu said he wouldn’t hesitate to attack Iran even without the approval of Pres. Obama…A senior official said Bibi believed it would be best not to wait for the November presidential elections because he didn’t trust the president to deal with the problem after the election.

So it appears that the dies is cast. Our ETA for the earliest possible offensive? Not before CVN-65 Enterprise reaches CVN 70 and CVN 74, sometime over the next 3-5 days. Of course, this is not a prediction of war. Just a logistical notice.

h/t Gregor Peter


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Fri, 03/16/2012 - 17:42 | 2263527 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Mabus will then soon die and there will come a dreadful destruction of people and animals.  Suddenly vengeance will be revealed, a hundred hands, thirst and hunger, when the comet  will pass.

Watch yer back Ray!!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:51 | 2264019 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

lol Ive been trying to play that mabus record backwards to see if it says obama for a while now

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:05 | 2264181
Fri, 03/16/2012 - 17:44 | 2263535 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Now more than ever Ron Paul needs to drop out of the Republican Party and run as an independent. To hell with this delegate strategy.  There needs to be a legitimate anti-war voice so that Obama won't attack Iran.

Decisions to go to war are never about the international posturing.  It's only about the domestic politics.  Obama and the democrats have to realize that being pro-war and pro-Israel will not win them an election.  Walking down this path needs to cost them.  RP is the only one that can apply the pain with a 3rd party run.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 17:45 | 2263536 Father Lucifer
Father Lucifer's picture

"The Future"

Give me back my broken night
my mirrored room, my secret life
it's lonely here,
there's no one left to torture
Give me absolute control
over every living soul
And lie beside me, baby,
that's an order!
Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that's left
and stuff it up the hole
in your culture
Give me back the Berlin wall
give me Stalin and St Paul
I've seen the future, brother:
it is murder.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
has crossed the threshold
and it has overturned
the order of the soul
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant

You don't know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I'm the little jew
who wrote the Bible
I've seen the nations rise and fall
I've heard their stories, heard them all
but love's the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold:
It's over, it ain't going
any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

There'll be the breaking of the ancient
western code
Your private life will suddenly explode
There'll be phantoms
There'll be fires on the road
and the white man dancing
You'll see a woman
hanging upside down
her features covered by her fallen gown
and all the lousy little poets
coming round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson
and the white man dancin'

Give me back the Berlin wall
Give me Stalin and St Paul
Give me Christ
or give me Hiroshima
Destroy another fetus now
We don't like children anyhow
I've seen the future, baby:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

When they said REPENT REPENT ...

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 18:22 | 2263642 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

that's leonard cohen BTW.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 19:47 | 2263871 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Yardbird, I like that song he did called walking in Memphis.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 23:14 | 2264308 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

still going strong, in his mid-70's now, recently heard a track from his new album - always the poet's lyric. . .class!

Sun, 03/18/2012 - 09:22 | 2266896 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

That's Mark Cohn, not LC.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:08 | 2264185's picture

Democracy is coming to the USA.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 17:53 | 2263567 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

$4 gas just around the corner?  That would be nice since here all we can do is dream about when it used to be that cheap. 

Must agree with you Cattulus, RP is never going to win or even have much of an influence on the party platform as a GOP candidate.  And I believe he would draw as many votes from progressives as from conservatives. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 18:03 | 2263596 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I would be a lot more worried about the big deck amphib troop ships right now than the carrier groups, the 1, 2, 5, 6, and 8 are all either at sea or already in the gulf.  I still have April 7 in the pool right? 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 18:10 | 2263612 PolishHammer
PolishHammer's picture

We created this Monster and it shall lead us to ruin.

It was supposed to be our little unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Middle East.

It wags the dog now.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 18:22 | 2263643 blindman
blindman's picture
Thursday March 15 2:00pm
minute 45:45

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 19:06 | 2263783 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I wonder what part is being played by that Sgt that shot all those civilians in Afghanistan.  I mean it is obvious in hindsight that securing Afghanistan and Iraq as well as having Turkey and Pakistan as "allies" was an important strategic factor in war planning for the eventual matchup with Iran, these nations virtually encircle Iran.  Now that Afghanistan is on the verge of kicking us out or at least withdrawing consent and alliance with NATO this could well be a major event in pushing the timeline forward.  I wonder if the planners in the war rooms are fuming out loud about the crazy act of one sick man. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 19:39 | 2263851 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

I suspect there is a bit more to the story. Or do you think individual soldiers wander off a military base alone in the middle of the night, heavily armed? You would think the Talibans could do the same, no? Now smoke that in your pipe.


Correction: Boil that in your pot.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:30 | 2263979 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

In spite of our differences I can't help but agree.  But, I will say that if it was planned as a provocation it was an enormously cruel plan.  And what kind of "agent" can simply walk out into a community on a green light and slaughter 16 people?  Life might be cheap there but this really is mental.  That there is a bit more to the story seems obvious.  I just don't think we will ever be told because it will have precipitated a much bigger set of headlines in a matter of days.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 22:25 | 2266320 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I saw an early report out of Russia that claimed there were a number of soldiers, they were drunk and carrying on, and they went on a killing spree. A more recent report discusses early findings:

"An Afghan parliamentary investigation team has implicated up to 20 US troops in the massacre of 16 civilians in Kandahar early on Sunday morning. It contradicts NATO's account that insists one rogue soldier was behind the slaughter."

“We are convinced that one soldier cannot kill so many people in two villages within one hour at the same time, and the 16 civilians, most of them children and women, have been killed by the two groups,” investigator Hamizai Lali told Afghan News."

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 19:36 | 2263847 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Premium gasoline is 25 oz of Tide 2x Ultra Free Liquid Laundry Detergent a gallon around me, or 16 cents in 90% silver money. That sheet is cheep!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 19:55 | 2263890 a. palmer jr.
a. palmer jr.'s picture

Apparently Israel is more concerned with their preservation as a nation than they are with Obama's re-election.  Obama would gladly trade Israel being inhillated for one more try at destroying America.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:11 | 2264188's picture

No doubt it would have been better if McCain had destroyed America.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 12:37 | 2264964 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Attacking Iran ends Israel. Russia & China can't let it go any other way. India & Pakistan have a say in Iranian oil & also have nukes.

Think this through. Israel is out-gunned 100x over. Even with America there it's too high a cost.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:17 | 2263944 nothing can go wrogn
nothing can go wrogn's picture

If Israel is so worried about getting nuked they should bomb Japan.

When they're done they can then dismantle all their own nuclear installations and weapons to be extra safe.

Funny, how since 9/11 we've been told to cower in fear because the "terrorists" might get hold of a "dirty bomb."

Yet...when the biggest dirty bomb in the history of the world went off on 3/11, and is still spewing uncontrolled radiation in to the land, sea and air. Not a word. Silence.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 23:21 | 2264316 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


Giant security cameras and sensors were installed inside Reactor 3 and elsewhere on the Fukushima site about a year before the disaster by the Israeli company, Magna BSP.

This specialises in producing ‘virtual security fences’ for military and civilian use that include an ‘electro-optical radar system’ and ‘stereoscopic vision sensors’.

The cameras weighed more than a thousand pounds and were of a size and shape very similar to a gun-type nuclear weapon.

Magna BSP is located in Dimona in Israel — the home of the massive Israeli nuclear weapons programme.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 02:44 | 2264479 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

That is one scary post you did there. Makes a person think twice. Thanks.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 05:52 | 2264545 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Ponder this...


Why would anyone hire an Israeli 'security' firm?


Their track record sucks. Seems that quite a bit of things they 'secure' tend to go boom...


btw CA an ICTS-International subsidiary had a presence at the scene of one of the London bombings(7/7) as well...


But ICTS International does have a subsidiary in Britain called ICTS U.K. Ltd., which is located in London's Tavistock House South, precisely where the double-decker bus was bombed on July 7. A receptionist at ICTS U.K. Ltd. said the office was temporarily closed after the bombing due to damage, but that the company was indeed part of ICTS International. - Christopher Bollyn


edit: more on this here:  Scandals rock Israeli 7/7 tube security company

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 17:11 | 2265572 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


Terrorism expert Tommy Preston of Preston Global in Frankfort, Kentucky, said sources in the intelligence community reported that at least one person in London, England was warned of Thursday morning's terrorist attacks moments before the initial blast. Preston, citing sources in the intelligence community, said former Israeli Prime Minister and current Finance Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was in London this morning for an economic forum. "Just before the first blast, Netanyahu got a call from the Israeli Embassy telling him to stay in his hotel room. The hotel is located next to the subway station where the first attack occurred and he did stay put and shortly after that, there was the explosion," Preston said.

wonder where the con-nection comes in with the Madrid train bombings on 11 March 2004 (yet another 3-11 dated marked. . .)

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:21 | 2263953 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture


Thats Rothschilds town is it not ?

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 05:06 | 2264561 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Well the Balfour Declaration of 1917 vintage begins like this:


"Dear Lord Rothschild"


but that's probably just a coincidence. LOL!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:28 | 2263972 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I wonder who is buying all that { contango oil}?   Isreal must have " LEVIATHANS FULL OF CRUDE" parked in International waters.

   Isreal and SPR = Gamma Burst [EoL scenario] on a regional scale. 

                                                                                                    " To start with"...

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:31 | 2263976 gnomon
gnomon's picture

Israel will not be left alone by the Islamic radicals or their threats to eliminate her.  Bibi does not and should not trust Obummer.  Obummer will leave Israel swinging in the wind after the election, if he gets the chance. Time to kill two birds with one stone----Iran's nuclear ambitions and Obummer's second term hopes.

Those who say there is no difference between the political parties are being disingenuous as they voted for Obummer in the last election.  And so their choice is still occupying the White House, however discredited he may be.

Iran has painted a permanent bullseye on itself.  It is time to pull the trigger.  The time is ripe, and the attack is inevitable.  Better now than later.  The sooner the better.  Let's ROLL!!



Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:49 | 2264013 akak
akak's picture

Warmongering: it's not just for (kosher) breakfast anymore.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:45 | 2264133 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Statists engage in "warmongering".

But as a libertarian, I know that force is required to facilitate a free market. von Mises stresses the importance of a social apparatus of coercion, a.k.a. the police. And Rothbard's private providers of security and arbitration services would certainly act against aggressors if they expected their action to result in financial gains.

Are you a dogmatic pacifist, or are you able to participate in an honest debate about the benefits and losses resulting from engaging Iran?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:53 | 2264142 akak
akak's picture

But as a libertarian, I know that force is required to facilitate a free market.

Smother it with glue, roll it in red-hot broken glass, and shove it up your ass.

I don't know what your dishonest and infantile, willfully antagonistic flaming campaign here is all about, but I don't give a damn either, as long as you stop.  You used to be better than this.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:54 | 2264155 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

How disappointing: no refutation or argumentation. Just silly jokes and insults. The bleatings of sheep.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:13 | 2264196's picture

You are far too deluded as to this issue for rational discussion to have any effect.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:16 | 2264208 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

So what would you do if you were CEO of a private entrepeneurial provider of security and arbitration services?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:26 | 2264229's picture

I would not take payment from a customer who wanted me to attack a non-threatening party. That would be bad for business all around.

Israel has been blowing up Iranian assets and personnel for years. The US has blockaded Iran. All Iran has done is make a few noises about fighting back against unwarranted aggression.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 06:52 | 2264612 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>That would be bad for business all around.

What about seeking profit?

What would you say to the shareholders???

Per von Mises in Human Action,

"for the owner it means much more, for the most part the loss of his total fortune. But if a manager is given a completely free hand, things are different. He speculates in risking other people’s money. He sees the prospects of an uncertain enterprise from another angle than that of the man who is answerable for the losses. It is precisely when he is rewarded by a share of the profits that he becomes foolhardy because he does not share in the losses too."

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 10:24 | 2264750's picture

A free market security service must be based on law, preferably natural law. It is unethical to attack those who have not attacked you or your customers.

Only those with a high time preference would use their private security force to kill and steal from innocent people. Those with a low time preference realize that a sustained business model for private security depends on the ability of all potential customers to trust your methods and intentions.

It's not personal, just business.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 12:41 | 2264973 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

perfect refutation: free markets require consent & pre-emptive force is removal of consent. WHat you said is utter nonsense anti-freemarket piled on as an argument "for" the free-market.

Dr. Trollcula.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 03:43 | 2264510 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

And Rothbard's private providers of security and arbitration services would certainly act against aggressors if they expected their action to result in financial gains.


Ah, the bully behaviour. Iran is the aggressor.

Iran initiated the hostilities so...


Sat, 03/17/2012 - 10:27 | 2264753's picture

No. Rothbard had low time preference which means he would build a sustainable security business which is only possible if that business remains ethical in the eyes of all potential customers.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:11 | 2264190 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

Obummer is just a flunkey put there to enact a charade.

Anyone thinking that Obummer is a man on his own rights needs to be put into a lunatic asylum.



Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:52 | 2264020 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Iranian Oil and Petrodollars Are Real Threat to U.S., Not Iran's Nuclear Program


When does this happen daddy?

Well son, the date is scheduled for March 20th.

But daddy, aren’t they going to SWIFT them first?

Son, just let Israel attack IRAN, you’ll see how the whole world will change after the attack.

Your scaring me daddy, why do you want them to attack Iran?

Son, your life will begin how it was for me, simple. Those who want to attack will regret their decisions. You’ll see in the coming weeks, an International community mocking a small group who reside in a location the size of New Jersey.

Thanks daddy.

My pleasure son.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:24 | 2264095 ekm
ekm's picture

What do you know about March 20th?

I have a bet going, but my logic was connected with greek default.

Strange enough, greek CDS auction is scheduled for March 19th.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:37 | 2264120 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

An attack this month is highly unlikely:

Even an attack this year is not a sure bet. There is still some time left before Iran is able to manufacture WMD's.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:15 | 2264201's picture

And Saddam is getting close to deploying them as well.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:22 | 2264219 ekm
ekm's picture

Well, there's an election coming and except for Jimmy Carter, all other presidents have started a war. No war, no election for Obama the Cubanizer.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 02:47 | 2264482 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Jimmy Carter's war is coming to an Iran near you soon! He planted the seed back then, it just took decades to grow and ripen.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:01 | 2264172 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture


Propaganda is like an onion, it has many layers and no core. Yes, this has to do with CDS, your just watching the side show.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:03 | 2264176 ekm
ekm's picture


Sat, 03/17/2012 - 11:14 | 2264782 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Iran officially stops accepting the USD for oil payment on the 20th. They have been accepting a basket of currencies and gold just recently and slowly moving away from the World Reserve Currency. Iran chairs OPEC now and are #3 oil producer in the world, so, if thats not enough evidence for you that they have nuclear war heads, I don't know what is?


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:55 | 2264022 Blue Horshoe Lo...
Blue Horshoe Loves Annacott Steel's picture


This is the sign we need to show Israel for the rest of eternity, before those Zionist maniacs start WWIII.  What good has backing them ever done for the USA?


. . . . . . . . . . . .  ---






........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')


...........\.............. _.·´








Sat, 03/17/2012 - 13:47 | 2265073 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture


Simply put, WHY the need for 200-400 nuclear warheads?  5 Are more than enough for security purposes, the threat of even one should be enough to make any enemy think twice about attack the Jewish state with any prospect of victory, the minute Israel feels they may lose, then the threat of a capital city going up in a cloud should stop the enemy in their tracks.

Simply put, Israel ONLY needs that large number if they plan to take out Europe and the Middle East.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 15:09 | 2265218 noob
noob's picture


Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:36 | 2266188 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

WHY?  Because when the nuclear shit hits the nuclear fan once and for all there will be no limited or contained warfare, all human scores will get settled in a few hours.  That would include the race war, the class war, religious bullshit, all of it, international differences, border disputes, piracy, broken treaties, ungovernable tribal regions, and fiat money.  Every dark corner and festering resentment will get settled. 

And 200-400 Israeli bombs?  Come on, that is like saying the world has three billion people, it was true, when we were kids.  Not so much wrong as just dated information.  A more realistic number would be a couple thousand. 

Five are not enough for security purposes, Israel keeps a really powerful conventional military force for a nation it's size as a deterrent to it's more murderous neighbors even though for the most part the regional players have stopped trying NOT to get along with Israel, but there is an element of theater in which Israel is totally justified.  And they have assurances that Israel will not go away thanks mostly to the USA (and particularly the former senator from Tel Aviv Joe Lie-berman) and I for one can't blame them, in their position I would do just as they are doing too. 

Their problem is that if things in the ME get bad enough that they are forced to actually use a nuclear weapon, even one, then the only shield they have is assured destruction.  The rest of the world has depended upon MAD for the better part of a century and still do in a second hand way, so before anyone goes accusing Israel of shady dealing re nukes I say look in the mirror.  Your skin and that of your family and all you have is owed to a policy of total destruction if someone attacks you.

This is the point, no matter the number of bombs Israel has it cannot use any of them unless it wipes out all enemies on the same day.  If Israel kills one Muslim with one nuclear weapon they know damned well they better not leave a single Muslim alive, from Rabat to Irian Jaya, with clean up teams for places like Detroit and Canada. 

Every nuclear power has contingency plans for retention of enough genetic material to eventually repopulate, crops, animals, humans.  America has 600-700 million bbls. oil in the SPR, what do you really think it is there for?  It is not enough to run the USA even on drastically reduced production and transport schedules, at least not an America of 315,000,000 souls, but an America of 1 million carefully selected people and a few million "survivors," in a new world of specific technocrats supported by a rural agrarian poor, that oil would last generations. 

And here is the deal, I think America, Russia, and China, we would all allow 90-95% of our populations to die off without even killing each other.  What they would all be left with is their respective 1% supported by 4% rather than billions of mostly useless eaters.  I also believe that Chernobyl was a turning point.  A vast swath of Europe was irradiated by that accident and not only were there no epidemics of radiation poisoning or cancers 26+ years later but the exclusion zone they cordoned off is a miracle of greenery and wildlife.  This has made war planners ultra skeptical of claims about radiation and nuclear winters.  And look at the population around Hiroshima and Nagasaki, those at ground zero that survived their burns had a higher cancer rate for sure, but most did not die of cancer and many still live today as very old people.  Certainly the people in neighboring towns had no higher than normal cancer.  That fact frightens me more than anything else you can say about nuclear weapons and war, that it is survivable.  It means Mutual Assured Destruction is nothing of the kind, it is just a cheaper way to blow up cities, but the deterrent was in assured destruction.  If it becomes widely believed that nuclear war does not wipe out life then their use will be nothing more than a convenient way to get rid of obsolete infrastructure and billions of mouths to feed.  And given the math of that a totally amoral structure like the 1% and it's ruthless leadership at the Squid would not hesitate to launch. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:55 | 2264024 jpmrwb
jpmrwb's picture

My only question is does Israel have the jets/planes to carry a bunker busting bomb that would penetrate over 200' underground? Also, do they have that type of bomb which weights upwards of 30,000 pounds? At this point Israel would have to have support from the US to do serious damage on the Iranian deep nuclear facilities. But, none the less, I never will count out Ben Net, truly a man born for the job.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:06 | 2264055 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

We are in the mist of game theory.

Nash: In competitive behavior someone always loses.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:31 | 2264111 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

A small fission weapon might suffice.

Iran, in seeking nuclear weapons and threatening to "erase Israel from the pages of history", is logically estopped from objecting to the use of such weapons against itself.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:35 | 2264216's picture

Yeah, your small fission weapons won't erase anything at all. The babies will dance and the birdies will sing!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:41 | 2264263 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

So if I want to own a gun, I am logically "estopped" from objecting to someone shooting me?

You stupid animal.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 23:01 | 2266412 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

If you threaten to kill your neighbor, actively annoy and attack him, and go in search of a weapon with which to kill him then yeah, you are not allowed by the community to get such a weapon.  You will be isolated and placed in a straight jacket till you agree to let that neighbor live in peace. 

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 03:44 | 2264512 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

threatening to "erase Israel from the pages of history",


Cant even get the quote right.

Who cares? US citizenism is all about propaganda.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 04:45 | 2264543 akak
akak's picture

And chinese citizenism is all about public nose-picking, roadside shitting, furious rates of resource exploitation and environmental degradation, the genocide of the Tibetan people and culture, tens of millions killed for the glory of sociopathic and totalitarian leaders, and general blobbing-up.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 11:07 | 2264794 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Iran never said "erase Israel from the pages of history"

Ahmadinejad said "erase the Zionist regime in Israel from the pages of history"

it's regime change. Y'all are familiar by now. That regime change would be welcome as it would in the USA.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 22:58 | 2266405 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

The bunker busters we gave to Israel a couple years ago when BushCo was in office can penetrate more than 300 feet of reinforced concrete or granite.  That is how far they can travel through solid rock before they detonate, and that is also a number from about 40 years ago, I am thinking that they have improved some on that number since I was in the service.  When they do go off they are dial-a-yield nuclear warheads that can shatter windows 65 miles away.  Nothing in the ground within 10 miles will be alive after they go off, not even bacteria, and that is from the shockwave not radiation.

Must keep in mind that there are only a few sites (no more than 5) that will get these bunker busters but those that do will be permanently unusable, and only a few of the other 45 or more sites related to their nuclear bomb program will get targeted for more conventional destruction because most of them would be useless by themselves without the key underground facilities which will be taken out, though there will be some military bases that get hit hard, and anything to do with missile technology for delivering anything more than a basket of eggs to the local souk will be history.  

And yes, they do have the delivery systems to do this.  For that matter they can fly a few Israeli jets over the targets unarmed and B2's at 50,000 feet above them can carry the actual weapons. 

There is no question that the capability exists to reduce the Iranian nuclear program to nothing in a matter of hours, there never was.  And the fallout (politically not radioactively) would be a bit dire for days if not weeks, but even Russia is telling Iran to cooperate at this point.  In fact, Russia is now so concerned about not only about Iranian bomb capability but the ability to deliver it long-range that they are actually negotiating with the US about the nuclear shield that requires their cooperation. 

Exclusive: U.S. dangles secret data for Russia missile shield approval


WASHINGTON | Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:41pm EDT



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration is leaving open the possibility of giving Moscow certain secret data on U.S. interceptor missiles due to help protect Europe from any Iranian missile strike.

This data was THE one stumbling block to Russian cooperation re the anti missile shield.  By the time you read this the Russians will have the data, in fact they might as well be accepted into NATO already.  They applied and were told that NATO is by invitation only, but that NATO would keep an open mind, that was years ago.  Now that Putin has regained the Kremlin and the plot has thickened so much I think they will withdraw scientific personnel from Iran in the next week.  Remember, Russia does not have any treaties with Iran for mutual military protection, nor does Russia have bases in Iran.  All they have are a few scientists that would otherwise be unemployed.  No different than a few contractors we have in some spots around the world.  We are not going to DEFCON one and start WWIII just because a few Americans on an oil rig or in a factory were in a country China just has to attack.  Or that get in the way of global geopolitics.  I am pretty sure that the few Russians still in Iran are ready to get out and will be told in advance when to go. 


 Militarily Iran poses no threat whatever.  And while they could become a major terrorist state threatening to do all kinds of bad bullshit like cutting off oil or closing Hormuz or whatever, the truth is they are in WAY over their head and they know it, what they really need is a way out of their self made mess that allows them to save face.  That was the real problem with Japan in the 1940's, America did not FORCE them into war, we just did not permit them a way out of war that allowed them the false dignity of face saving, and frankly sometimes rubbing their noses in it is required to teach them a lesson they will never forget.  Japan is industrious and friendly, they are unlikely to ever do again what they did in the 1930's and 40's.  They honestly saw the error of their ways and freely admit it was their social fears of losing face that drove them to the evils they did. 

?Now the real trick is to find a way to get a player like Iran to give up what is so unacceptable to the rest of the world with a compromise that preserves their dignity.  A way that they can say that they won, or at least got as good as they gave.  I think it can be done.  But I also think the time is very short, so short is all but impossible.  I think if Israel announced it would sign the NNPT and give up any atomic bombs it has in exchange for Iran dropping it's nuclear bomb program, that could do it.  But, both sides could have lifetimes of inspections and even then Israel would still have a nuclear protector, the USA.  Still, it could happen.  And I loath to think of the world a month from now if something is not done of that magnitude. 



Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:46 | 2264138 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I'm getting sick of all this "after the election talk".  #1 If Obama is saying he wants to wait, and get this fuckers, THAT MEANS WAR WITH IRAN IS IMMIMENT!!!!  Not sure what the debate is.

#2: The elections are fucking rigged. These bastards have an agenda and your stupid vote doesn't make a bit of goddamn difference.

Welcome to reality.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:49 | 2264144 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

It's just too much headache for all the scabby sheep to wrap their poor little minds around such things as 30,000 drones and NDAA. In fact, there's even little mention of that now. It took 2 weeks for this issue to die.  What the fuck is wrong with people?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:23 | 2264225's picture

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things."  -- Thoreau's Walden

Sun, 03/18/2012 - 03:19 | 2266713 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I agree, war is coming and not just breathing hard, I wish they had more time and more guts to find a way around it but there have just been too many isolated little items that barely made the news (or did not make the news at all) which by themselves mean nothing, but put together cannot mean anything else.  Like:

Exclusive: Saudi oil sales, tanker bookings to U.S. surge

By Matthew Robinson
and Jonathan Saul
Posted 2012/03/16 at 11:43 am EDT

NEW YORK/LONDON, Mar. 16, 2012 (Reuters) — Saudi Arabia is preparing to extend this year's unexpected surge in oil sales to the United States, according to tanker industry sources and government data, adding to speculation about the response of the world's top oil exporter to sanctions against Iran and a rally in prices.

Contrary to expectations that the modest recent rise in the kingdom's output was bound for fast-growing Asian markets, preliminary data shows that shipments to the United States have quietly risen 25 percent to the highest level since mid-2008, when the OPEC kingpin was driving up production to knock oil prices off record highs near $150 a barrel.

The surge appears set to continue. Vela, Saudi Arabia's state oil tanker company, has booked at least 9 very large crude carriers (VLCCs) capable of carrying 2 million barrels of crude each from the Middle East Gulf to the U.S. Gulf since the start of March, the biggest such wave of fixtures in years, analysts say.

Evidence of the abrupt boost in sales, which has gone largely unnoticed in the market, will likely provoke speculation about whether it is more political or commercial in nature.

The White House has been scrambling for options to bring down gasoline prices -- at a seasonal record high -- during an election year, after concerns over an Iranian supply disruption launched benchmark Brent crude to lofty peaks over $120 a barrel not seen since the record price run of 2008.

Washington has urged ally Saudi Arabia to cover potential shortages when new U.S. and European Union sanctions are expected to reduce Iranian oil exports from July. The Obama administration has considered releasing strategic oil inventories, potentially as part of a bilateral deal with Britain.



Why would we need every available loose mega tanker on the high seas filled with Saudi crude and sent toward North America?  We have not bought oil from Iran in decades and the embargo of toughened sanctions will not go into effect for months.  I am guessing because they amount to a floating adjunct to the SPR?  This is not about the political blowback from high prices at the pump, if anything buying large loads of crude now at current prices would only make that worse.  It is because in the coming ME war oil will not get shipped at all, at least the interruption will be tangible enough that we will need all the oil in tankers and already out to sea we can possibly manage. 

I was thinking April 7, that is my day in the pool for the start of the Persian war, but I am starting to think Passover might be the latest date for the start and it could begin tomorrow.  I think they had a plan, but the massacre in Kandahar moved the date up.  Crunch time fellow ZH'ers; no matter what you think of Iran and no matter what we think at all, it is going to happen, soon. 

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 14:50 | 2264764 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Or.. A declaration of "State of Emergency" that activates COG, then Obama stays without any elections. Didn't matter in '08 anyway.


USA! USA! Gotta lov it..

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:33 | 2264246 cnhedge
cnhedge's picture

goldman is recommending its clients to sell calls.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 09:57 | 2264714 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

You mean muppets.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:36 | 2264255 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

We starve. 

Look at one another,

Short of breath

Walking proudly in our winter coats

Wearing smells from laboratories

Facing a dying nation,

A moving paper fantasy,

Listening for the new told lies

With supreme visions of lonely tunes.


inside something there is a rush of

Greatness.  Who knows what stands in front of

Our lives?  I fashion my future

On films in space.  

Silence tells me secretly

Everything --


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:38 | 2264258 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 You are being veted EKM!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 16:38 | 2263307 ekm
Vote up!

Vote down!


My bet  and speculation posted few times on ZH:

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 12:29 | 2264942 ekm
ekm's picture

I guess I'm famous.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:46 | 2264268 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Getting a little crowded over there. They're going to need a traffic light or two.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 23:04 | 2264299 gnomon
gnomon's picture

Suck it up you Obummer/Ron Paul Retreads!  The Republic is probably already toast. We might as well do God's Work and take out a bunch of Mad Dog Mullahs on our way down for the final count.

No Guts, No Glory.  And don't say I should be on the front line because everywhere is the front line these days.  

Our time is up.  

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 23:10 | 2264304 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

-1 for being such a drama queen.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 23:12 | 2264305 akak
akak's picture

Let's see you lead the charge, chickenhawk --- yes, on the front lines.

Put up or shut up, you warmongering pig.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 23:26 | 2264319 gnomon
gnomon's picture

Warmongering is the only thing keeping us alive at this point.  Our task is to keep the oil flowing and the sea lanes open.  If you can't accept that reality, that is not my fault.

The second we abandon those tasks we will be replaced or chaos will ensue, (as power abhors a vacuum).  

This is where we are at.  Do you want to wimp out, curl up in a ball, and let the termite-infested walls collapse in on you?  Or do you want to go out with a bang?

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 11:33 | 2264845 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I want American control of sea lanes & sky to end.


What is here NOW is chaos. What comes after is a solution.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 23:31 | 2264322 groundedkiwi
groundedkiwi's picture

saudis have just leased 11 new oil tankers to start deliveries to usa next week. mmm


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 23:37 | 2264326 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 You are all a bunch of " Drunk ass Sailors" We had a rough week!

  Put your asses to bed Sailors!!!

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 00:02 | 2264358 digalert
digalert's picture EU sanctions cut off Iran from world banking.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 00:37 | 2264398 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  O/T I'm curious. Does that  usd/cad trade mean anything?

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 00:37 | 2264399 Clowns to the l...
Clowns to the left_ jokers to the right's picture

The Big 0 would probably love this war. He can decry it and talk about how he would have preferred a diplomatic solution but it gives him a perfect excuse for oil and gas prices leading up to the election.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 01:24 | 2264429 Element
Element's picture
And in other news, this just came in on
Julian Assange to run for Senate


Updated March 17, 2012 15:32:51


WikiLeaks has announced that its founder and leader Julian Assange is planning to run for a seat in the Australian Senate.

In its announcement on Twitter, WikiLeaks said it would also be running a candidate against Prime Minister Julia Gillard in her Lower House Victorian seat of Lalor.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 01:52 | 2264452 astartes09
astartes09's picture

$4.91/gal in Los Angeles.  Good thing I filled up today.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 02:54 | 2264487 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

The sooner you will be empty and have to pay $5.03.

BTFD Reduced Shipping $5.95 Sat & Sun in March at Provident Metals with code MADNESS12 any size order woo woo Get some Ron Paul Copper Gold or Silver BTFD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They have 1/10 ounce [troy] ron paul gold coins. sweet.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 04:33 | 2264533 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

OooH the pussy canuks are on the forum! It must be that ass clown from Forex Live, that Idiot that reads numbers in Gumby Land!


            Element makes sense.+1

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 08:49 | 2264662 Fuzzyduck
Fuzzyduck's picture

Interesting article in the UAE Gulf News yesterday reporting that US threatens India with sanctions if they don't stop buying oil from Iran. 

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 11:03 | 2264748 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Exactly! The problem is that India and Russia already signed energy contracts with Iran (oil - electricity) and will not use USD for payment. WWIII is most deff on the front burner.

"Israeli political sources believe that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a majority Cabinet support Israeli military action against Iran without American approval.

This vote above in my opinion is just cover, if Russia / China find out were going to be involved on a preemptive level, it will get ugly real quick. Just my opinion.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 08:56 | 2264664 Fuzzyduck
Fuzzyduck's picture

and in other news that you won't hear the natives in the Eastern province of Saudi Arabia are getting restless!

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 08:52 | 2264666 cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

About time!

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 09:16 | 2264682 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Navy Doubles Minesweeper Presence in Persian Gulf


"Four more minesweepers and four more minesweeping helicopters are to be sent to the Persian Gulf, a move which will increase the number of mine countermeasure forces available to keep open the sea lanes around the Strait of Hormuz should Iran choose to mine that critical waterway."

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 10:11 | 2264735 passwordis
passwordis's picture

Israel behind another war?  Is there any real question as to who is the problem on planet earth?

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 10:40 | 2264768 It was not me
It was not me's picture

I wonder what will happen to European economy when this all will be over and Brent trades at 200.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 11:44 | 2264862 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Brent at 200 is good for Dow at 20K



Sat, 03/17/2012 - 11:03 | 2264787 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Israel the suicidal.

Not only will this definitely mean the Straight of Hormuz will close but also that Russia will intervene. If the USA is forced to face down Russia in Iran then we get WW III. Expect nuclear responses.

Fucking idiots.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 12:57 | 2264988 coolpajim
coolpajim's picture

Ezekiel 38:17 - 23

17 ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Are you the one of whom I spoke in former days through My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for many years that I would bring you against them? 18 It will come about on that day, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” declares the Lord GOD, “that My fury will mount up in My anger. 19 In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will surely be a great [m]earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all the creeping things that creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at My presence; the mountains also will be thrown down, the steep pathways will [n]collapse and every wall will fall to the ground. 21 I will call for a sword against [o]him on all My mountains,” declares the Lord GOD. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 With pestilence and with blood I will enter intojudgment with him; and I will rain on him and on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, [p]a torrential rain, with hailstones, fire and brimstone. 23 I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the LORD.”’

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 13:40 | 2265041 gnomon
gnomon's picture

Tel Aviv gets nuked, and then Iran gets what it is begging for.  And I am sure Israel has a few spare nukes for Russia, if they want to get into the fray.

The oil must flow and the sea lanes must stay open, come Hell or High Water, (or the Apocalypse).

(This sincere reflective message of the day is meant for all of the Masochistic Obummer/Ron Paul Retreads who wish to curl up into a ball to be bitch-slapped for the rest of their lives by our enemies).

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 23:29 | 2266457 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Go die, you pansy ass drama queen.


Sun, 03/18/2012 - 00:19 | 2266527 akak
akak's picture

No, he needs to suffer first --- and I hear it is good for the soul anyway (assuming he has one, a dubious assumption on the face of things).

Sun, 03/18/2012 - 17:19 | 2267406 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

You sure have a good grip on Geo Political, /sarc/

They want to close the shipping lanes because of US sanactions. Russia has more Nukes than Israel BTW (300+) and they are not bi laterally alligned.

Russia is alligned with Iran.  Russia has a huge investment in Iran right now along with India and China, so poke that badger (Iran) with a sharp stick and we.. USA have no allys in that area besides Israel and UK? Get it?

Non US Allies in that region:





N. Korea

US Allies:


United Kingdom

Saudi Arabia

South Korea

Add to the list if you like.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 13:53 | 2265088 DonGenaro
DonGenaro's picture

And to these modern-day nazis, I say "GO AHEAD (and see that happens)".

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 16:19 | 2265435 goforgin
goforgin's picture

I sent an email to the Israeli Security Council and asked them for date, time and the operational details. To my surprise they said that they can fax it to me. I just hope that they haven't outsourced their customer service to Malasia or Mindanao.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 16:27 | 2265466 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

When the comments start being an inch wide I leave the thread. Some people love to hear themselves type.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 18:50 | 2265822 squexx
squexx's picture

If they do attack, ALL Jews around the world become legit targets of war. Hopefully, Israel will be given a blow they can't recover from.

An attack on Iran deserves an even worse attack back! Fuck Israel!!!!

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 19:48 | 2265942 solidus
solidus's picture

It might be instructive to look at the politics of the situation.   Political Reality #1:  Obama is no friend of Israel and they are well aware of the damage $6 gas could do to his reelection bid.  An extra added bonus for eliminating the Iran threat would be that $6 gas would put a nail in the coffin of his reelection.  They won't wait till after the election.  Political Reality #2:  Obama might want an excuse for high gas prices.  He already owns them and might think it would be helpful to be able to blame them on someone else.  Plus it's great for his green agenda.  Plus he would come across as less of a pussy.  Obama remembers the glow from Osama.  Yup, if its gonna happen, it will happen before the election.

Sun, 03/18/2012 - 15:52 | 2267615 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

another interesting date coincidence.  the Afghan government had banned the use of private military security effective march 21'st.  today the Afghan's "extended" the deadline another 90 days - and this is after the Bales incident!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:27 | 2279267 jaanp444
jaanp444's picture

Easter foodstuff and Easter bunnies easter status are commonly believed by today's secular world to be the sorry status perfect gifts for the Easter holidays

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