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Is Britain About To Scuttle The Last Ditch "Plan Z" European Bailout?
As is by now well known, it was the British refusal to budge and thus agree to the fiscal compact from the December 9th summit, that led to the realization that the European bailout is now further away than ever before. And as reported earlier, tomorrow European finance ministers will sit down to finalize the terms of a €200 billion IMF injection, funded by various European governments, which is the last ditch rescue effort now that the EFSF and ESM have both failed to convince the market of a long-term solution. Enter Britain. Again. Because as the Telegraph reports, it will be up to Britain to fund not just any portion of the upcoming €200 billion payment, but the second largest one, a commitment which David Cameron and the majority of Britain will likely balk at. "Figures suggest European Union officials expect British taxpayers to be the second largest contributor. The Prime Minister has repeatedly promised not to provide any extra funding for the IMF for the specific purpose of saving the euro and Britain is already liable for £12 billion of loans and guarantees to Ireland, Greece and Portugal...An EU official said Britain was still expected to contribute €30.9 billion (£25.9 billion), leaving the country as the second biggest contributor to the new IMF fund behind Germany and equal with France." So ten days after British obstinacy to "on the fly" European bailout plans led to the EURUSD dropping to 2011 lows, will it be the Albion that once again leads to another step down in the European currency, as it now becomes clear that the last ditch Plan Z "IMF Bailout" plan is now worthless? We will find out shortly, although we are confident that anyone hoping that Britain will do an about face and revert on its controversial position, will be disappointed.
From the Telegraph:
Any suggestion that Britain will pay more towards the bailing out debt-ridden eurozone economies will cause anger among Tory Euro-sceptics, particularly if the eurozone nations do not pay their fair share.
Douglas Carswell, the Conservative MP for Clacton, said: “George Osborne has spent 20 months going along with the bail-out and borrow consensus.
“It has cost this country billions of pounds in liabilities which dwarf all the austerity measures. He needs to call a halt now.”
The British solution: let the dominos fall.
Mr Carswell called for eurozone countries to be allowed an “orderly default” on their debts.
Peter Bone, the Tory MP for Wellingborough, urged the Chancellor to stand up for the British “national interest”, even if he is as isolated in today’s meeting as Mr Cameron was earlier this month in Brussels.
In the meantime, Britain is edging ever closer to its own parlimentary crisis:
Yesterday Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrat Business Secretary, when asked about Coalition tensions over the Prime Minister’s decision, admitted he regularly considered resigning from the Cabinet, and accused Mr Cameron of blocking the EU deal for “largely political” reasons.
Though one thing is certain: without England involved, hopes of a European bailout are a pipedream, becase all its takes is for one or two Americans to realize that if Britain is not bailing out Europem, why should the US?
Boris Johnson, the mayor of London, suggested that the eurozone was likely to break up in the next 12 months. “I’d be amazed if we were all sitting here next year and the euro had not undergone some sort of change,” he told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show.
He also suggested Greece would be the first to leave, adding: “I think it highly likely that there will be a realignment. Ouzo will be substantially cheaper.”
His view was shared by Sir Philip Hampton, the Royal Bank of Scotland’s chairman, who told Jeff Randall on Sky News: “I think it’s likely that one country, a small country, will drop out.”
And if that wasn't enough, we now learn that the Foreign Office is actively preparing for a fall out collapse of Europe:
Yesterday it emerged that the Foreign Office was drawing up contingency plans to evacuate up to a million expats from Spain and Portugal in the event of a European banking crash.
The planning was even said to include the nightmare scenario of thousands of penniless Britons sleeping at airports with no money to return to the UK.
We leave with a piece of advice for the French (that means you Noyer): bitching at the UK is great for political brownie points, but all else equal, the UK can print all it wants, and devalue its currency at will (which it is, and will), without destroying its financial system. This is much more than we can say about France and the rest of Europe. So perhaps in the great war of words, it is about time France finally admit defeat, and realize just who holds the trump cards.
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UK will pay.
Once Britain, twice shy.
Hail Hail Freedonia!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsw9jYU_rJI
Why should the UK bail out those lazy bastards from France and Germany, who spend their time drinking wine, ouzo and beer, on endless vacations, with all welfare benefits, early retirement, free education....all at the expense of the UK taxpayer???
Nuttin' for Christmas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lecz6aeP-A
Cam's response: Well, we would of course like to pitch in. Alas, you can hardly expect us to contribute as much as France when we are already much less credit worthy than they.
Don't think the UK is about to bail out Germany..........that's Greek/Portugese/Irish BANKS you're thinking of.............!!
UK cannot "bail out" other bastards because they have enough bastards on their own plate.
"...all its takes is for one or two Americans to realize that if Britain is not bailing out Europem, why should the US?"
For two reasons:
a) The US banking system will go belly-up five minutes after the Euro goes bust!
b) The US is not as broke as Britain and we don't want to follow Britain in to the abyss!
By not doing so, the U.K might be causing a global economic collapse.
I recently purchased the first five Marx Brothers movies. I'm already familiar with Duck Soup and Animal Crackers but I've never seen The Coconuts, Monkey Business or Horsefeathers. It's gonna be a blast.
They're great. Duck Soup is a parody of government in general.
It happens so fast you have to watch them over and over to get it all. As you know, you'll be LYAO and miss parts.
Enjoy!
Well played Crockett, WELL PLAYED!
The Careless Whisper Sunday Trivia And Threadjacking
1.How many people have been placed in the Nevada Witness Protection Program because they have testified against LPS ?
2.According to one of the witnesses, what is the real reason for the existence of LPS with regard to foreclosures?
answer will be posted a few posts lower
Too, that's why I say Hayman nice shot, nice shot man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpWlatljaI0
http://www.haymancapitalmanagement.com
Zahlen macht Frieden. Old German saying.
with the xmas turkey and plum pudding? Or in some distant hazy future? There are many ways to say "no" without saying it.
I will say it again : we are now singing "when thieves fall out" openly...that's the new twist since Cameron walked away at seeing Merkel not ante up fully. "Its US or its THEM," what he sings. In fact, its both, but to those involved in this poker game, last man out gets the chocolate prize. Silly really, its now beyond them, so the silly games of make belief goes on, especially if its election year for you in 2012!
It has been said, Margaret Thatcher during a meeting with Mitterand once produced a map of unified Germany, and told him, and I'm paraphrasing, "If you don't bring her into Europe with a common currency, you all are doomed".
After nearly 2 decades Germany's economy has fully integrated the East. They are unified. They are competitive. They are unstoppable. Britain fears the projection of German power onto the Island, like she is doing on the Continent.
the raw struggle for power on the Contintent & the Isle is at hand.
Did I just hear a rattle from "Drake"s drum?.....
"the raw struggle for power on the Contintent & the Isle is at hand."
Whaty year did you say this is? 2011? or is it 1911?
History repeats, eh.
Yet despite having stayed out of the Euro (Noting the inherent prolems of a single currency shared by countries whose economies were not in synch), or perhaps BECAUSE of it, Britain will continue to be a convenient scapegoat so as to score, as nicely put in the article, domestic political brownie points in France etc.
Ultimately, Britain will be forced into holding a referendum on the EU and the people will overwhelmingly vote to pull out of the EU. Switzerland enjoys the same terms of trade with the EU whislt remaining outside it under a Free trade agreement and Britain could do the same.
Only if the other 26 unanimously agree - little chance UK will be granted the same status as Switzerland
Its either EFTA, where you get all the bent banana rules and no say in how the EU is run, if the other 26 unanimously agree
Or the Customs Union alongside Turkey, no rules but you don't get access to EU trade deals, such as the one the EU did with South Korea. if the other 26 unanimously agree
Or outside all the Walled Gardens - a place in which Britain hasn't been for centuries,
The UK will not go against the will of the US. While Cameron may have good points on principle, blowing up the global financial system and starting World War III and massive social unrest is not on the CFR's game plans.
Its QE to Infinity, starting almost immediately or its massiv chaos, global revolution or war in my opinion. CFR, and International Network will either bring Cammeron and Merkel in line or "New World Order" will be taking on a whole new meaning from what Bush had in mind.
The UK will not go against the will of the US. While Cameron may have good points on principle, blowing up the global financial system and starting World War III and massive social unrest is not on the CFR's game plans.
Its QE to Infinity, starting almost immediately or its massive chaos, global revolution or war in my opinion. CFR, and International Network will either bring Cammeron and Merkel in line or "New World Order" will be taking on a whole new meaning from what Bush had in mind.
Duffminster
The market still digs the city of london.
Europe? Maybe not so much.
Yeah if there were a place where rapists could rape all they want without prosecution they would probably dig that place too.
If anybody “still” has any doubt how this will end, please, click on this C-Span link and go to 1:18:00. Then listen to the exchange.
Can’t say that you didn’t see it coming!
And, if anybody at Zero Hedge can get the transcript [I couldn't…, yet] that would be priceless.
My uncle lives in France and for Xmas he always sends me 2 bags of chocolate coins.
This year the cheap fucker has sent me 20 Euros.
Look, the City of London is never, ever going to agree upon anything that limits their financial freedoms or from which they cannot profit. So desires the City, so goes the UK's actions regarding the EU, Euro, et. al.
My point is/was that the city won't cave. I'm not making a value statement, just an observation.
Well put.
If not London, Brussels. I'm in the free Europe camp too. Meaning, long on individual state sovereignty, short centrally planned economies...especially from outside the voters grasp.
The people of Greece (for example) have a right to yank their money out of Greek banks and hold their elected representatives acountable. If it defaults, it defaults. Its not like it has never happened before.
Its a cleansing mechanism. To hold them (or any other) in fiscal involuntary servitude forever is the real crime here, no matter what their past fiscal crimes were.
nmewn: Do the Greeks actually have any elected representatives left in their Government? Thought unelected, imposed on the people, Goldman Sachs boy was running the show now.
Well, I shouldn't even be commenting on this thread (with all of its interrelated elements of sovereignty, security & finance) out of my own personal integrity. I do despise it so when "ferners" stick their nose into our affairs...lol.
But yes.
To my mind, when you have "a gang" from Brussels (or Goldman) that imposes its will on the people of Greece instead of just writing it off as a "bad investement" we (they) have entered a whole new phase of serfdom.
It doesn't matter one wit to me if the Greeks or Spanish or Italians or Irish have done this to themselves by spending/leveraging more than they have or can afford to lose and put themselves into this position...those are just the facts...this is a whole new level of ownership.
A free people are not owned by anyone or anything. I would fight beside a socialist to stop it. And everyone here knows how I feel about Greek socialists ;-)
"The City" shouldn't be so smug.
On the one hand, it is what it is and at present Financial services, if the full impact of insurance is taken in, accounts for up to 20% of the UK economy so it does need to be protected short term.
On the other hand, it's full of fucking bankers who, rightly, are despised by average Britons for their rapacious greed which caused the financial crisis. Nobody except the city and their political proxies really gives a shit about the city So change is needed and will come. The City also needs to remember that whether in or out of the EU, Brussels can pass regulations which make it more difficult for Financial services from London to be sold in the Eurozone and/or "The 26".
UK will just print the EU30.9b and send it to Brussels with a love letter for Noyer. /sarc
Yep, to
Ake sure every citizen pays their part of the eu bailouf....
To bad that in real.terms, inflation will cost more to the UK citizens than that 30 billion.
The UK should print as much as possible and only buy gold with it while they still can. And in the end, the pound would become one of the strongest currency... But instead they print and give it away...
Britain shouldn't give one more pence to that Ponzi scheme known as the Euro.
It like a restaurant filled with people. 17 to be exact.
Out of those 17 are 5 bumms with no money, but still they order everything on the menu.
Now when the waitor presents the bill, those 5 can't pay so all the nice other people say: we'll share their bill and pay for,it!
And than the bumms order a dessert and 4 whiskey bottles to go....
Just fucking let them do the dishes! And throw them out!
And for god sake! Dn't let them have the desert and the booze!
Declining UK disposable incomes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/8964822/Households-are-500-a-year-wor...
That bum is only holding fiat! Not a single silver or gold coin!
Sd, nice to see your flailing arms and open mouth filled with fangs. Where were you? We missed you last week off and on. Getting some Christmas shopping done?
Yup. Add declining incomes to the complaints about rising fuel bills and UK may be in for another "winter of discontent"
TRIVIA Answers
1. There are at least TEN Confidential Witnesses named by the Nevada Attorney General in her Civil Complaint against LPS for committing Fraud, and other offenses.
2. According to Confidential Witness #10, LPS entire reason for existing was so that attorneys will not have contact with their clients (the Bank). (see para #150)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/75880962/LPSComplaint
Related news of a conflicted world:
Top House Republicans rebelled Sunday against a bipartisan, Senate-approved bill extending payroll tax cuts and jobless benefits for two months, reigniting a politically fueled holiday-season clash that had seemed all but doused.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45717446/
Rebellion & clashes you say? Against who? The Imperial Senate?
To arms! To arms!...lol.
Britain has always been unique to rest of Europe. My guess is geography made it so. It looks like nothing has changed. Tell rest of the welfare state to "go starve you worthless freeloaders". And by the way, f*^k the queen.
This is just another EuroAxis powerplay against Cameron, following the last one in Brussels - where I say he was pushed even though it may appear that he jumped. The only REAL leverage that the Axis have against Cameron is Ireland (lets not forget the full name of the party currently ruling the UK is The Conservative AND UNIONIST Party) as this is the one location in the islands where the guns will be on the streets 'toot sweet', and that is where I would be focusing my attention.
I'd like to see how Britain's general public consensus will be shaped, if the €30.9 billion are agreed to be paid (which I seriously doubt), for Europe's bailout contribution.
The summer riots will look like a hippy festival in comparison, and the remainder of non-Eurosceptics will reconsider their position.
What I don't doubt is that one of credit ratings agencies will see through this bullshit and throw a couple of downgrades here and there during the next couple of days.
Seems like the Fed it's going to have to add more zeros in the new QE, and promptly funnel the liquidity in Europe through the ECB, if they wish for this charade to continue.
The logical argument would of course be for Cameron to require as a pre-condition that Sarkozy deposit documents detailing an additional EU30.9B worth of French public sector cuts to the office of Chancellor Osborne, to be poured over Euro Commission style, including of course, agreed penalties in the event of the French electorate failing to meet the required levels of austerity.
France’s gross domestic product is forecasted to contract by 0.2% in the fourth quarter of 2011 and by 0.1% in the first quarter of 2012. It might not seem like an important decline, but considering that Eurozone is facing a decline of industrial production and a broad incline in unemployment, while only in the beginning of a deleveraging cycle, I’d say that the numbers are bound to increase, the way they did in 2008.
A declining business confidence in France’s manufacturing sector and a cooling off in corporate demand and credit tightening contribute to the discouragement of businesses investments and are causing further downturn in the economy.
So a prediction of weaker job creation and an increase in unemployment from 9.3% in the third quarter of 2011 to 9.6% in the following period, which will be sustained until mid-2012, along with the already imposition of tough austerity measures, will make Sarkozy think twice about any kneejerk reactions.
He is already in the second place, behind Socialist Party nominee Francois Hollande, who has already promised to “renegotiate” the EU fiscal accord, so if he pledges additional public funds amidst the most austere period France has seen in recent years, he can forget the second term and say goodbye to the Élysée Palace for good.
Furthermore, It was only recently voted that the number of days an employee in the private sector can be sick and off work without getting paid were increased from 3 to 4, in order to save just €440 million, and it was only 2 months ago that tens of thousands of French teachers and their supporters took to the streets for a national strike and protests over education job cuts under Sarkozy's government, adding pressure to the pre-election campaigning.
Of course frau Merkel might prove to be rather persuasive and convince him to sacrifice himself despite the odds.
Riots ahoy!
London=Rothschild
Trump card=British taxpayers fucked
Hahaha.....World War Z.....The Zombie Banking Wars have begun
Cannabalistic Wankers
When is this soap opera going to end? they should call this something like "As the Euro Turns" or how about "Euro Hospital". As you can tell I am sick of this Euro beast being on life support, will someone just pull the damn plug!
Hahaha....My mind just flashed to the Monty Python skit....
"But...I'm not dead yet!"
"Well...You soon will be"...now shut up and get on the cart of death
Bring out yer Dead.....indeed
The only solution is to let the dominos fall. The sooner the better. Europe needs national currencies, exchange rates and market-conform interest rates. Otherwise, Eurogeddon is inevitable.
The Euro is dead. The longer its dead, the worse it smells. Its time for the funeral.
two lumpz, right?
care for a bisquit, BiCheZ?
the petite fours are cucumber sandwichez...
stick to your guns UK...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5U8HzbAK1E
Bring a suitcase, these Eurotrash are worse thanthird world immigrants at a US welfare office.
Anyone agreeing to pay will promptly be forced from their seats in the nearest election cycle. There is nothing better than having power when every country around you is falling into disarray. They won't pay, they understand it can't be saved and will want to retain their seats of power when its all crumbling around them.
i'm sure this has nothing to do with hypothecation! 140% can be hypo'd by all countries, except england which has unlimited percentage! the worlds' clearing house of ponzis'.
Dominos of default are beginning to fall.
dupe
last plan z didnt work out either, lost 2 battleships
Fact is, the next round of currency collapse will be Sterling, not the Euro. During the currency war, countries take turns shooting themselves in the head as a way to try and boost exports. Now it’s Britain’s turn. Look for the Pound to get hammered in the near future.
The "Trump Card"???
That would be gold. Any fool can (and will) print. A printing press ain't no trump card, except in nominal fantasyland.
When the market finally decides to draw a distinction between real physical gold and paper claims on gold which cannot be exchanged for real physical gold, Noyer will be the one with an intact financial system, not the UK.
Time to get real.
Meanwhile lets see how well Ireland is doing after using tax payers money to make the bankers whole and letting the public wear the cost via brutal austerity:
Destroying Ireland to the save the banks so the banks can save the country isn't working writes Gene Kerrigan in the Irish Independent:
We learned conclusively that the Cowen/Lenihan austerity strategy, now being implemented by Kenny/Noonan, doesn't work. This ordains that we have to destroy the country in order to save the banks, so that the banks can save the country. So, under ECB instructions, we've been feeding the bankers tens of billions; and seeking vainly to balance the books by cutting services and asset-stripping the citizens. The insane strategy of deflating an already damaged economy smothered any chance of growth. The economy contracted. Unemployment rose relentlessly.
The argument between austerity (focused on reducing deficits) and stimulus (focused on protecting jobs) has been settled. Over the past four years, austerity has turned a crisis into a catastrophe.
One of the most important lessons we learned in 2011 was this: it doesn't matter that the austerity strategy doesn't work. The Economic War Against Ourselves has the approval of the EU, the ECB, the IMF, Fine Gael, Labour, Fianna Fail and The Irish Times. This makes the strategy unimpeachably respectable and perpetually untouchable, despite its blatant failure.
You may notice that Fine Gael, Labour, Fianna Fail and The Irish Times are precisely those who cheered on the property bubble. You may notice that the EU, the ECB and the IMF benignly observed the insane gambles by German, French, UK and Irish bankers that fuelled that bubble. Among the people who matter, being repeatedly, disastrously wrong has no bad consequences.
People who oppose austerity policies are "politically motivated". The incompetent, overpaid elites who blunder onward are, on the other hand, "realists". With no political thought but peace and goodwill to all.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/gene-kerrigan-austerity-doesnt-work-no-problem-2966900.html
Some other interesting quotes from Gene Kerrigan's brilliant opinion piece in today's Irish Independent:
We learned that Tim Geithner, Barack Obama's top economics guy, vetoed any suggestion that the Irish Government might demand that bank bondholders pay some of their own gambling debts.
Some weeks later, face to face with Obama, Enda Kenny chickened out of raising that matter. Face to face with Geithner, Michael Noonan also chickened out. We learned, in short, that Irish politicians are tough when they're taking money away from blind people.
We learned that democracy is dispensable. At election time, we're told to be grateful for the sacrifices that gave us the ballot. People living under dictators put their lives on the line to achieve the right to vote -- and we rightly honour them.
We learned after last February's General Election that a mandate for change is without value, when the elite collude. Promises of change are without meaning. The right to vote becomes a child's game, a trivialising simulation of democracy.
When democratically elected politicians in Italy and Greece balked at taking instructions from the ECB they were replaced by people who never received a single vote. Their successors (bankers) were chosen by unelected but extremely powerful functionaries within the ECB (bankers).
Tyler. don't worry what Cable or any of these EU collaberators have to say. The Liberal Democratic part of the Coalition (be it they're neither liberal nor democratic) can resign and bring down the Government. But it would be political suicide on a grand scale. The LibDems would be wiped out as a national political party in a General Election right now.
Bring it on is what many are saying here in the UK.
No more re-hiccupothecation.
Plan z = Plan b+ Plan C + Whishey+ + cofusion= Dancing with the stars
There is NO WAY we will contribute an extra £25 billion. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY.
If anyone thinks that they are dreaming. Cameron would lose all credibility and the government disintegrate.
Anyway, using Sudden Debt's great restaurant analogy, since Dec 9th, aren't we here in the UK watching through the window whilst everyone is eating?
As such, why would we contribute to the bill!
I think we'll pay, DC too scared to piss the French and Germans off any more. I personally think the ECB should print so they can see what 5% inflation feels like rather than us printing and us suffering even more. Maybe we can ask to fish in our own waters in return? I just wish this shit would fail already....
jcad, sure there is a way! Did you check the graphic below
Only inner sanctum bitchezzz can do that.
BITCHEZZZZ
Cheers!
Tyler, why can't I place the graphic?
anyway, here is the link:
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/testimonies/2011/0922_european...
No way DC won't pay. DC has definately pissed Sarkozy off, but Merkel must be thanking her lucky stars. She didn't have to say no on Dec 9th, and again will watch as the UK makes the only right decision in not backing a bailout.
Shrewd work by the lady, appeasing the profligate without having to make the tough decision of saying no.
Then when the ECB are forced to print, she'll jump.
When the market finally decides to draw a distinction between real physical gold and paper claims on gold which cannot be exchanged for real physical gold, Noyer will be the one with an intact financial system, not the UK.
Where is the gold held? When TSHTF, possession is 9/10ths of the law. The UK might only have 300 odd tonnes, but we hold much more.
Escrava Isaura
Not saying UK can't give the money, just that we WON'T.
Plan Z didn't work for Plankton, why should it work out for the EU.
"No Soup for you!"
Off topic, but sure to be seen here soon:
Dear Leader meets the Grim Reaper...
Here's the money line:
Under IMF rules, Britain would underwrite a portion of loans to struggling countries, but only pay out if they defaulted. Only countries that are members of the IMF and contribute to its wealth can apply for loans.
The Prime Minister has argued that no country has ever lost money by lending to the IMF.
Yes, but this time Greece really isn't Italy. The problem with the bailout plans is that no funds stand behind all these various schemes. They are all pledges. But in the present situation, Euroland is broker, i.e. in need of physical cash. Therefore, pledeges don't do the trick. So how is pledging to the IMF going to resolve anything?
Unless the IMF will take the pledged amounts and use that as collateral with the Bernankster. Yea, now that's the ticket..... :)
So ten days after British obstinacy to "on the fly" European bailout plans led to the EURUSD dropping to 2011 lows, will it be the Albion that once again leads to another step down in the European currency, as it now becomes clear that the last ditch Plan Z "IMF Bailout" plan is now worthless?
I hope other ZH readers realise that the ECB/Eurozone is choosing to NOT pay for bailouts, rather the IMF will pay. This weakens the dollar faction, but does not result in QE and Euro devaluation.
Sometimes, the Eurozone problems are described as Euro currency problems, but they are not. The Euro will be around long after the dollar has become a third-world currency.
View everything you see and here in this context, and you will see more clearly what the long game is.
We are already the second biggest contributor to the EU and the joint second biggest underwriter of the Euro to which we do not belong. Now they want us to contibute more than the French to save that which is already lost. For 40 years they have bled this country, taking the mick at every turn. No, no and no again. This must end now.
We will only pay if the countries default. Great these countries are already bankrupt. They will default again anad again. We will simply end up paying the banks the interest on their bailout loans.
However, Cameron will bend as he is pro-EU through and through. His superficial and much publicised use or veto was both free and without real consequence. Here we will see his true colours. He will fund this with our future earnings and pensions along with those of our children while we will apply for pay day loan lenders in order to make ends meet. All to prolong the current slow motion collapse of the EU and its fiat currency.