- advertisements -
But enough about Europe. Let's talk about US.
germany and france hanging those wops out to dry...southern greaseball effeminate euro countries take note
Hide your bridesmaids! Silvio won't be happy about this.
Bond prices can't go down forever.
Eventually there is going to be an absolutely vicious squeeze that will catch the bears offsides.
No, I guess they can't go down forever. They'll always fetch something on Ebay as curiosities that people can frame and keep on the wall as a reminder that governments do fail, and the debts they issued often die with them.
Just like my framed Zimbamwen $10/20/50/100 Trillion bills!
Technically he's right. They should asymptotically approach zero as interest rates go to infinity, right? Though I guess there's still profit to be had from shorting as rates go from infinity minus two to infinity minus one.
Just like stocks can't go up forever either.
"Bond prices can't go down forever."
ask Jon Corzine how that logic is working out for him
LOL! That just got the coffee coming out the nose hehehe
They sure can. What assets back these sovereign bonds?
Right. If people (investors) aren't stepping up to buy the acropolis or Santorini, what makes you think they'll buy the colloseum or Capri?
Does that translate to "On a long enough timeline the European economy will perk up a bit"?
Incidentally, it seems we are .6 of a bps away from a margin hike.
Edit 2: A bit premature. Someone is selling Bunds. Hmmm.
Edit 3: Are the ECB allowed to buy Bunds from banks at a premium behind closed doors and then sell them back on the open market? That's not against policy is it? If this is happening I would have thought that this would have attracted the attention of Bunga Bond holders: "Well then, we have a buyer of Italian crap at a premium who is also selling German wunderbunds at a loss...can't miss out on that...."
Edit 4: Capitulation, baby. Game over. The ECB has apparently reached the limit of it's endurance. Both bonds heading in their natural directions...
"Like a child that wanders onto a film set..."
sure, when we are at close to 0 deg Kelvin, 0.00001 from absolute zero
which is still some way down
What are Greek bonds selling for?
Good question. But holding out for a gyro is no type of sound fiscal policy!
This has been a mainstay of trader folklore. We old time traders call it October.
Whereas the rest of us call it November.
Can't wait for that trade. Tin-hat wearers are going to be sorely disappointed that they have the end-game timing way off.
ECB waiting for a better entry point. Stick with Draghi
So there is no EFSF expansion, the ECB will not print, and italian yields are about to go through 7 percent. yet the dow is 1400 points above the lows set 2 months ago... I'm perplexed and truly give up
Wil-e-coyote comes to mind.
Corps are issing gobs of debt and some of that money is flowing into share buybacks.
exactly. Nearly every rumor that drove the market higher has since been refuted (or is now watered down)... logic would suggest that the market would return to pre-rumor levels; therefore, US equity markets must be illogical (or the Bernank has shifted its allocation to equities).
Instead of giving up, I just scheduled my lobotomy.
we have seen it before
and now we see it again:
France's AAA is next.
OK Italian PM wins vote so saves face but will resign at 3.00pm to spark stock melt up . Can see a balistic last hour .
Tyler, FT Alphaville recently commented on the BTP-Bund spread claim saying it's actually a weighted mix of German, French and some other (Dutch, IIRC) bond yields that LCH uses.
... and the sheeple follow the S&P 500 and the HFT higher as usual
Don´t bank on it.
Italian culture and politics are quite ...sophisticated...and complicated. Half of the times no one knows what´s really going on.To imputate that it´s possible to connect the wild gyrations in the markers with communicated news seems to me to be a logical fallacy. I as much as anyoneelse would really like for someone to be able to explain what the hell is going on but...I can´t see there´s one theory that covers this trip in unchartered territories.
Maybe we are stuck in this moneyprinting hell forever?
Perhaps, but that's a fast path to Zimbabwe $$ & economy.
Don't forget about the deeper problem of monetary and credit inflation: it rearranges the economy away from efficient compounding production and obfuscates logical price discovery. Net = less wealth / wealth destruction, poorer people. Confining the discussion purely to price inflation misses THAT real problem.
And we should not forget why money printing is illegal for you or me: those closest to it get to benefit from it at the expense of everyone else holding said currency. Also known as THEFT. The authorities have merely legalized a counterfeiting mechanism that benefits core Wall Street, all banks, and especially D.C.
That begs the question - how much can be printed when the paper stays with different dealers and do not reach Joe Sixpack.Hence there is no velocity. The only velocity there is seems to be with the the HFT bots.Heck - no one even knows how big holes there are to fill in all those balance sheets...
So can you give us a guesstimate of how much can be printed before we see any real broad rapid consistent inflation? How many gazillions... 1 or 10 or what?
Maybe we have progressed to Krugman´s Hell with Central Banks feeding dealers that pursue automated trade with each other and the rest is.....just stuck on go.
Velocity is overrated.
All it takes is for the masses to have a Wile E. Coyote moment, and all hell breaks loose.
But to your point, they keep playing that game, the economy collapses under itself since prices aren't being allowed to clear at anything remotely tied to reality.
Hence, they need the consumer to have more cash in pocket to drive action, which will leak $$'s into the system and start driving prices. Helicopters will come.
Stocks represennt pices of companies that can and will reprice their products to capture the upcoming inflation. Few other assets have that ability.
This isn't the 1970's. Salaries are not keeping pace with inflation anywhere.
Companies can certainly reprice their products, but they won't sell many after a while.
I'll say it again... where are the goddamn margin hikes on Italian debts?
And the Dax gave up 6,000 again. Stocks can't go up forever sooner or later they run into an absolutely nasty bear that will eventually rip the longs to the downside.
Risk is still on. Wake me up when the real thing happens.
IMO, for US equities, we're gonna need to see a few really negative US data reports to turn the tide. If they come, and the Euro issues are still hot, the sell off will be large. If the data out of the US stays the course I don't saee a huge move down in US equities regardless of the fiasco in Europe.
BernankAsshole still has the weapon of mass US$ destruction, he will ensure that the stock market never drops. His life saving is also in stake.
data?? data?? What's data got to do with this market? German industrial production - yes, the industrial powerhouse of the world - reports a 2.7% DECLINE for October (expected -0.5%) and the markets in Europe melt up! Now I know the Bernank prints but the German Central bank won't - well, not yet anyhows.
Who Berlesconi took to bed last night has more influence than poxy data.
Even though I knew central bankers would freely print, I expected them to wait for a "useful emergency" before doing so. Now, in light of this 87 breach, Tyler's post on the BOJ is even more telling... the BOJ can just print yen to buy euros to buy BTPs. How the yen can remain this strong after past and expected printing sessions? I'll never know.
Round and round we go -- it is the Japanese turn to print. Apparently, as long as the world is stuck with relative valuation among these swappable currencies the game can go on.
Whoops! - Somebody please buy the fucking dip. Please?
@pivotal trades: you are correct in an inflationary environment. But what about a stagflationary one?
Welcome to the new market double think.
First we had bad economic data = QE3 more likely = ES up
Now we'll have Italian bond yields up as punishment to Berlusconi = more likely he will get kicked out = ES up
It can only go up! Pure logic! Why I'm shorting this shit into the ground I just can't imagine...
gonna go a lot lower. Every bounce will be sold into by every "solvent" french bank looking to deleverage...
Tips: tips [ at ] zerohedge.com
General: info [ at ] zerohedge.com
Legal: legal [ at ] zerohedge.com
Advertising: ads [ at ] zerohedge.com
Abuse/Complaints: abuse [ at ] zerohedge.com
Advertise With Us
Make sure to read our "How To [Read/Tip Off] Zero Hedge Without Attracting The Interest Of [Human Resources/The Treasury/Black Helicopters]" Guide
How to report offensive comments
Notice on Racial Discrimination.