BTPs Break 7% Again On Italian Downgrade Rumors

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Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:25 | 1879197 mayhem_korner
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I remember when 7% interest was kinda normal.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:28 | 1879211 Jean
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Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:31 | 1879228 Everybodys All ...
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not for sovereigns


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:39 | 1879253 mayhem_korner
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I also remember when "sovereign" meant something different than "dependent upon everyone else papering over your lack of discipline."

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:47 | 1879276 High Plains Drifter
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 a sovereign is a very nice gold coin..........

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:42 | 1879261 Oh regional Indian
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Here in India, it is still normal.

Connedsumers pay 11-15% for home loans, 10-12% for vehicles.... governmant debt is just in the sub 10% range.

Different worlds.


Mandelbrot Magic

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:51 | 1879287 spanish inquisition
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Selfish bastards! If you would lever up on your economy, rates would drop and GDP would increase along with taxes. You could then buy European government debt to support them and take the pressure off Mario for a day or two. Sounds like India is just backward enough to still think that gold is money. (hehe...)

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 12:05 | 1879332 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Hah! Indian's do. India? As in Goobermint? Don't think so.

Same old Deficit Spending, Keynesian bullshit with a huge dollop of corruption for taste.


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:59 | 1879311 ItsDanger
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I remember when countries didnt have so much debt.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 21:08 | 1881043 Buck Johnson
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It broke and stayed over the 7% and this was considered the final straw for other economies that needed bailing out.  But also France and Spain interest rates on bonds are going up also, I think the death spiral is increasing and they are playing this day by day now.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:25 | 1879199 slaughterer
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S&P had another server slip-up?  

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:25 | 1879200 Ancona
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Put some sauce on it's done.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:28 | 1879207 scatterbrains
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flambe style for reals

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:30 | 1879220 a growing concern
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Such a boring wait...

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:28 | 1879208 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Bring back Bunga Bunga.  

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:29 | 1879212 Tsar Pointless
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In rialzo!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:29 | 1879213 Gandalf6900
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Tue, 11/15/2011 - 12:42 | 1879424 Mark123
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at least his name sounded like a precious metal.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:29 | 1879215 Cdad
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So...are risk managers at BLK tapping Larry Fink on the shoulder just now?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:29 | 1879216 oogs66
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its only a loss or bad decision in the real world, not in merkozyville

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:29 | 1879217 dereksatkinson
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I don't think we see a downgrade until after Monti has had a few weeks.  Rating agencies aren't going to put their nuts on the line when governments are already this hostile towards them.   Even if Italy DESERVES to be downgraded, I think the downgrade will come in the form of higher rates and NOT some rating agency.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:31 | 1879225 a growing concern
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Egan Jones might.  They're like the honey badger.  They just don't give a shit.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:54 | 1879239 SheepDog-One
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Honey badgers really dont give a shit, if its hungry, its eating something, it just takes what it wants.

The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (original narration by Randall) - YouTube

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:40 | 1879255 Jean
Jean's picture

This represents a big opportunity for Egan Jones, they keep calling spades, spades while the big guys maintain their "working" relationships with governments - soon they will be the goto rating and the others a Car and Driver like window dressing.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:43 | 1879265 a growing concern
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I think it's clear that no one besides Egan Jones has any amount of credibility anymore.  They are just the paid mouthpieces who happen to do something unfavorable in their ratings just often enough to keep up a slight veneer of credibility.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:47 | 1879277 taraxias
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Forget the rating agencies, the bond markets have already rated these deadbeats.......UP UP AND AWAY with yields baby.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:40 | 1879256 fuu
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Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:33 | 1879233 Jean
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Do they still have a prescence in Italy, or did they pull up stakes after they got raided?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 12:01 | 1879320 DeadFred
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When I read the ratings reports countries get scored on a lot of attributes that sort of sum up to an evaluation of "is this a third world banana republic trying to support its regime through manipulating the economy or is it a free market". Banning short selling, CDSs, putting politcal and legal pressure on the rating agencies, calling a default voluntary... I think the fruit flies will like the smell.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:30 | 1879219 rubearish10
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That's alright, the US Faux economic turnaround will make the pain disappear. Thank you big corporate and all that offshore profit bulldozing!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:31 | 1879223 AngryGerman
AngryGerman's picture

7%. who cares? let it go up to 15%. nobody will give a shit. country is broke anyway, they rely on germany for funding in the future. realize. accept. move on. please, bitch!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:31 | 1879226 Taterboy
Taterboy's picture

I know exactly what Europe's problem is....NO FIVE GUYS!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:52 | 1879294 Jean
Jean's picture

and we can't seem to pull off Moules-frites as cheap fast eats, wtf

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:34 | 1879227 Stack Trace
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Shows us all how ineffectual the "leadership change is good" story has been. Euro is toast and the US "faux recovery" revealed for what it is.

Never mind $100 oil, z-super-duper-dud-kommittee, aging demographics, increasing protests, continued unemployment....on and on. But hey, time to be bullish.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:48 | 1879278 SheepDog-One
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Yep, bullish on equities which havent even budged, inflation adjusted, in over 20 years. What the bulls are all excited about, I have no idea.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:33 | 1879234 homersimpson
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Let's throw some FAZ on that bad boy!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:36 | 1879240 Hedgetard55
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Is this why BAC is up 3% today?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:44 | 1879267 d00daa
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well golly you better jump in with both hands buying then, right????   bwahahahahahahahahahaha!  let me know how that works out for you.


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:37 | 1879242 Ivanovich
Ivanovich's picture go green.  Some one or some thing is holding these things up.  A day like today should force everything (inclusive of the Euro) into the red.  Who is the magic hand supporting it all?  Banana Ben?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:45 | 1879264 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea theyve worked for years to implode the system, now spend all their days keeping it up...what are they waiting for? Do they have cold feet? Or has something gone wrong?

I dont really give a shit, Im a honey badger, Im going to go eat some larva and a cobra.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:47 | 1879275 Ragnar24
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Yeah I'm not sure how some slightly positive econ data fully offsets the seriousness of the Europe tragedy unfolding... especially considering the qualifying factors of said data, e.g. retail sales likely driven by iPhone frenzy and possibly some inflation.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:37 | 1879245 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Sounds like time for a EUR/USD positive rumor? The fixing of interest rate ceilings isn't doing what it was supposed to today. I suggest the ECB splits into a good bank and bad bank. And unlimited PIIG debt buying of course:)

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 13:46 | 1879590 topcallingtroll
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Yeah I hope so.

Reality is interfering with my Santa rally thesis.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:44 | 1879269 vegas
vegas's picture

The talking heads must really love this shit now. They were ga-ga over yields at 6%. Can't wait to see how much love they are in when it gets over 10. Attention money honeys at CNBC: yields are high for a reason.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:46 | 1879271 BlueStreet
BlueStreet's picture

This market sucks out loud.  Starting to wonder if it isn't time to stick a fork in the year.  

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:52 | 1879292 mayhem_korner
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Do you think next year will be better?  I think so because I believe PMs and other real stuff will have another 25%+ gain in 2012.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:47 | 1879274 dereksatkinson
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Given the climate, no rating agency is going to be stupid enough..  Governments will destroy the people at these agencies. Both personally and professionally.


If Egan jones or any other rating agency downgrades a sovereign in this environment, i'd fully expect rape accusation or child porn charges to be thrown against their CEO.  Governments are in FULL attack mode.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:50 | 1879286 SheepDog-One
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Yep, the FED pulled out the last of its dry powder with a lame announcement that ZIRP is now permanent policy far as the eye can see, and didnt even get markets green? Too funny. Gold and oil continue to rise though.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:57 | 1879307 HelluvaEngineer
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These markets are so thin, wonder when we will go bidless?  Even bulls don't seem to give a shit.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:50 | 1879284 vote_libertaria...
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Higher interest's a sign of STRENGTH!!!


buy buy buy.....yepper

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