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The "Buffett Rule" In Perspective

Tyler Durden's picture




 

We have extensively discussed the Buffett Rule before (which incidentally will achieve nothing to fix America's gaping deficit problem, but will certainly succeed in driving many wealthy people away from this country). We thought this issue was closed. Apparently it wasn't, and Obama is once again warming up the class divide wagon - remember: the number one rule in politics when electioneering is keep everyone as divided as possible - under the guise of tax reform. So here is a reminder on same simple issues of perspective, courtesy of Rick Santelli.

As a reminder, as we pointed out yesterday, the US just posted the largest ever March budget deficit in history of nearly $200 billion, which followed the single largest monthly budget deficit on record of $232 billion. Keep those numbers in mind, because they frame, in a very, very, very aggressive case, the bottom and top range of what the entire Buffett Rule would offset in terms of gained revenue. As rick explains, assuming one taxes an upper estimate of those eligible for the Buffett Rule (indicatively 225,000 people but realistically far less) an incremental $1 million, the offset would be $225 billion over the proposal's life. Which is not enough to even plug one month of US deficit. And that is what all the posturing is about.

Now don't get us wrong: America has a record deficit problem, and it will require both revenue and spending decisions to fix it, but in isolation, neither will make a dent, and with the government as bloated as it is, far more spending cuts will be required to match any revenue increases.

Finally, since the Treasury already funds over half of US funding needs, and the Fed is among the biggest monetizers, pardon holders, of US paper, why not just go ahead and print the money America needs? Surely all modern economic theories will agree that the once greatest country in the world can print itself into prosperity...

From Rick Santelli:

And while Rick's example is hyperbolic to the upside (in terms of benefit), here is a different more realistic perspective on things, via the Joint Committee on Taxation, courtesy of TaxProf.

Seriously, this may work... If America taxes everyone at about 1500%.

(which incidentally is not too far off: once again we remind people of the ominous reality that the BCG study predicted last September: take our word for it - a one time tax on all assets is coming).

 

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Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:00 | 2339792 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Hate to say it, but American talent costs (including, perhaps especially Senior management) are not competitive for the skill-sets that are being sought in many of the once-cherished industries, and regulation and tax policy are killing the remaining industries where American talent is highly competitive. Not to mention the fact that Big-Government is waging an all-out war on small business, which has historically been an engine of economic growth in the US. The US decided to run to central planning pretty much at the same time the rest of the world was decentralizing and beefing up competitiveness.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:59 | 2339966 11b40
11b40's picture

What you mean is, multi-national crony capitalists captured American govt and convinced enough dirt-bag politicians to allow them to sell the free trade idea and bleed America dry.  Of course we will never be competitive with 3rd world labor until we are ourselves a 3rd world country - but has been part of the plan all along, has it not?  How could our companies compete against foreign govenments and mercantilist states? What part of the rest of the world are you talking about the has de-centralized and beefing up competitivness?  Are you confusing unfair trade practices and waging war against American dominated industries one by one with 'beefing up competitiveness'?

As a small business owner, I agree that we are being shoveld shit, but it is the multi-nationals who own the politicians and get the laws written for their benefit.  Big business is squeezing the life out of the smaller competitior, and it is deliberate.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:29 | 2340042 chunkylover42
chunkylover42's picture

I've heard this argument before, that higher taxes encourage businesses to plow profits back into the company instead of paying dividends, and it's bogus.

Companies don't invest in new equipment or factories for the tax break, they do it because they project demand for their product to grow and they need capacity.  Think about it - if I sold 500 widgets last year and I expect to do the same this coming year, am I going to run out and buy a new widget maker that I don't need so I can save a few bucks on taxes?  That widget maker is just going to sit there, or maybe I can spread some production around and use my other widget makers and this one at less than full capacity, but I still have to pay for maintenence, upkeep, and pay some person to run my new widget maker.  Hell it's cheaper just to pay the damn taxes.  This argument falls apart pretty quick.

In the real world, higher taxes just means I'm going to raise my prices and lay off a worker or two (or find ways to automate processes which means it's someone I don't hire in the future) to try and protect my margins.  If the tax is so onerous, I'll just sell my business to a larger competitor that has the scale to be profitable in this environment.  I get to cash out and a third of my workforce can join the unemployment line as the acquiring company finds they don't need TWO accounting or HR departments...

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:52 | 2339757 dirtbagger
dirtbagger's picture

You state that the schools are worthless and the infrastructure is outdated and then in the next breath say you don't think more taxes should be payed to make it better.  

With a feedback loop of over 30 years the evidence is indisputable that the Laffer Curve and the Trickle Down Theory is complete economic nonsense.   The results of cutting taxes for the wealthiest in our society has been a declining standard of living for the vast majority of citizens,  not to mention underfuning of education and infrastructure.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:27 | 2339487 TMT
TMT's picture

-1

Just another troll who hates those who are more successful than him. Get a job, work hard, and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:18 | 2339457 bb5
bb5's picture

the plutocrats need to pay their fair share in taxes. What amount did they pay under Repubican Kingpin Ronald Reagan? It wasn't 30-35%.

Correcting this problem is just a piece of the puzzle. So what? It needs to be done.  

 

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:20 | 2339459 dumpster
dumpster's picture

buffett tax..cosmetic surgery for the brain dead ..

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:35 | 2339520 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Brazil (2/10) Movie CLIP - Plastic Surgery (1985) HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnx95KyQEAA (2:20)

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:12 | 2339641 centerline
centerline's picture

Great movie.  I loved it for how bizarre it was, long before I ever really understood it.  I really need to watch it again.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:30 | 2339683 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Brazil - Geoff Muldaur
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HtHEgINHO0 (3:28)

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:20 | 2339460 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

One of Santelli's more masterful performances...  I think I actually saw his face turn purple.  Awesome.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:14 | 2339648 centerline
centerline's picture

Yeah.  He has been getting pretty animated.  Seems like one day he is just going to postal or have a nervous breakdown on camera.  LOL.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:21 | 2339462 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Oh MDB. Your trolling is getting really lame. Come on you can do better than that, can't you?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:22 | 2339468 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Oh poor rich guys. They might be made to pay a fair rate when compared to the little guys. Makes me want to cry... The only way to stop the crocodile tearing is to give them more tax breaks, yeah. Let's all page Bush and hope that Bush II (Obama) does the same.

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:28 | 2339490 TMT
TMT's picture

-1

Just another troll who hates those who are more successful than him. Get a job, work hard, and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:56 | 2339597 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

The old American adaggio of "Everyone can become a 1%". Hah, don't make me laugh, serf. If you are a millonaire, you didn't do it on your own. You required all that society and the infrastructure of the state had to offer. It's just fair you pay your share. Which should be bigger than those at the bottom.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:08 | 2339629 TMT
TMT's picture

Quite a defeatist attitude you have.  Don't worry, it's never too late in life to try and make it.  Stop pouting.

And for all that infrastructure and whatever else the state provided, I paid taxes for it.  Maybe, just maybe, it's you who need to chip in a little.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 10:16 | 2341456 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Exactly, you paid taxes. The problem is that now the burden of that same infrastructure by which some got rich is proportionally heavier on those who have less, instead of being heavier on those who actually made something out of it. That's awfully unfair, if anyone cares about that.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:24 | 2339478 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

It figures Buffett would come up with a tax increase which costs him nothing.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:27 | 2339479 Eurogroup
Eurogroup's picture

Tax the motherfuckers is the least you should do. It's surprising that even ZH-readers talk about serfdom and slavery by the elite in the morning topic about the Roman-comparison and reject a "one man, one tax justice" in the evening. There is a also the case of a Roman emperor who rounded up the elite, hung them and took their processions to solve his deficit problem. The Buffet rule sounds fair and even gentle to me. But then again, I'm from the EUSSR.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:29 | 2339493 TMT
TMT's picture

-1

Just another troll who hates those who are more successful than him. Get a job, work hard, and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:35 | 2339521 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

don't sweat it, the system is dying, so regardless we will get to find out precisely what the value of everyone's labor really is.  Only the paper-pushers have something to worry about.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:43 | 2339546 TMT
TMT's picture

And those wholly dependent on the state for their survival.  They're in for a rude awakening.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:49 | 2339568 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

You mean the banksters? Damn, that would be suuuhweet. You should start holding your breath right away.... ahhhhnd, GO!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:55 | 2339590 TMT
TMT's picture

+1.  Touche.  I was thinking of the parasites at the bottom, but indeed the parasites at the top are equally in for a rude awakening.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:05 | 2339621 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

All told, the 'parasites' at the bottom are a drop in the bucket.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:14 | 2339645 TMT
TMT's picture

I agree; Bernank has done more economic damage than millions of welfare babies.  But my point is that if those on the bottom had to chip in (pay taxes) then maybe they would pay attention to this shit and open their eyes to what's really going on.  If they don't have any skin in the game then they'll never get it.  Perhaps that's why the system is designed as such.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:50 | 2339747 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i don't dis/agree with you, but i thought you went from one cliche to another very adroitly;

then i wondered if you really believe that:

  • "those on the bottom"
  • have no "skin in the game" ? 

you may be relying a bit too heavily on this "fact" as proof as to why:   they will never get it

perhaps some "system" is designed to prevent you from seeing that "those on the bottom" might not be quite so sure of who isn't getting what, here.   protecting you and defending you from it, even? 

status is always and everywhere a psychological phenomenon

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:19 | 2339858 bb5
bb5's picture

Everybody has skin in the game. They are taxed on gasoline and most other products they use. If they own property, they are taxed, if they smoke or drink, they are taxed. If they shop at Wal Mart or other stores they may be taxed. Stop swallowing the kool aid.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:10 | 2339991 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

TMT isn't drinking, he's serving.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:04 | 2339617 tickhound
tickhound's picture

"Welfare dependancy" is a stigma reserved for the lower classes... You know this GF ;)

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:48 | 2339557 Eurogroup
Eurogroup's picture

Working hard and earning a lot of money is not an ticket for a free ride and pay no taxes or less taxes than your secretary. And sorry, I'm no troll. Just surprised about the inconsistancy of arguments. If the money in taxing the rich is not worthwhile it is not a problem either if they take their money elsewhere for taxreasons.  At least with the Buffet Rule they have something to explain if they run for office e.g.. 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:11 | 2339635 11b40
11b40's picture

Your trolling is geting tiresome, TMT

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:25 | 2339481 cdskiller
cdskiller's picture

These is a classic false choice argument. Raising the top tax rate to at least 30% will not fix the deficit. No. It won't. But that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. And saying it warms up the class divide wagon is disingenuous. There already is a class divide wagon, and it has been driving drunk in a school zone at 70mph for 30 years. The problem with the Buffett rule is it is lame. The top tax rate needs to be raised to 70%, or more. Forgive me if I'm not moved by the fear by the prospect of wealthy, unpatriotic, ungrateful people leaving the country. I hope their children are happy in Kuwait. I can only assume that the wealthy people who lived here from 1936 to 1981, when the top rate was 91% and never went below 70% loved living in the greatest country in the world more than they do now.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:30 | 2339497 TMT
TMT's picture

-1

Just another troll who hates those who are more successful than him. Get a job, work hard, and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:36 | 2339528 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Okay, now you get junked because you can't do anything aside from copy and paste.  fucking weak.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:53 | 2339583 TMT
TMT's picture

What's fucking weak are the trolls on here who hate successful people, or even worse those on here who don't call them out.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:24 | 2339672 11b40
11b40's picture

I am a successful person.  I do not hate successful people, although I do like some much more than others.  Many are quite unattractive and deserving of contempt, while most others are pretty good people.

But what does that have to do with the distribution of wealth and maintaining a country with the bounty of America?

Each of us who have attained a measure of success did not do it alone.  We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before and invested in our future.  We all enjoyed the public education, good roads & other infrastructure, the security afforded by our police & military, and on and on.

The problem is, over the past 30 or so years, we have been taken over by a bunch of shirkers - pikers who only care about themselves and all they can grab.  One party screams that the other is just a bunch of tax & spenders.  They come to power and become a bunch of borrow and spenders.  Which way is better?  Of course, many will say neither, that spending is the problem.  Well, it may be the problem, but no one is going to do anything about it, so we better figure out how to pay for it.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:31 | 2339698 TMT
TMT's picture

The problem is the sheer size of the debt.  It simply can't be paid off.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:39 | 2339921 centerline
centerline's picture

Sure it can.  Unfortunately it will crush most everyone in the process though.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:45 | 2339545 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Just another duped troll useful idiot who hates those who actually do work for a living, and defines 'success' as elites sitting on their spotty asses while collecting inherited wealth.

Get a job, work hard, and quit trying to pretend that Daddy's money is something you've earned.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:50 | 2339574 TMT
TMT's picture

I have a job, work hard, and have earned (not inherited) everything I have.  You made the mistake in assuming that I'm a rich guy.  I'm a middle class guy who works hard and despises those who hate those who are more successful than them.

Where did I say I hate those who work hard?  Your envy of the rich is getting the best of you.

As I see it, people like you are part of the problem.  When you throw out bullshit like "daddy" and "inherited" I know your type ... I would have more respect for you if you just came out and admitted you hate successful people.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:15 | 2339612 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

You assume about others, others will assume about you. You get what you give.

In my experience the general rule is the harder someone works the less they get paid (per hour).

So, now that I've thrown out 'bullshit' like "daddy" and "inherited", why not address the point I made? If you love the working man so much?

As I see it, people like you are part of the problem. I would have more respect for you if you just came out and admitted that you revere wealth, regardless of how it was obtained.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:23 | 2339668 TMT
TMT's picture

I don't worship wealth, in fact I'm pretty content being in the middle.  But, I'll admit I get out bed each morning and go to work hoping to become wealthy.  If/when I become wealthy I won't feel guilty at all.  If I won the lottery, I wouldn't feel guilty.

Do you strive for mediocrity when it comes to income?

The great irony is this site is rife with those trying to hit a home run on PMs.  If/when their positions pay off, will you deride them for being wealthy?

How can trying to become wealthy be part of the problem?  Perhaps I'm wrong, but I sense you are very angry with those with money.  Envy is a killer.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:06 | 2339815 jomama
jomama's picture

buying PMs isn't about hitting a home run.  it's about preserving the wealth that you have, because it's being stolen outright every day.  there are few other options, if any, to save - safely - in this modern paradigm. 

and get off your envy schtick.  it's inaccurate and disgustingly pretentious of you to assume.  most of the outrage is based on inequality.  

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 09:52 | 2340785 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Well you full-circled that one right smartly.

You don't need to buy a lottery ticket, you've already won! You're a winner! Congratulations! Against all the odds you're here, you! Well done, you made it! In my experience this is a limited time offer...

 At the tails, luck and power are dangerous in doses of anything but inverse proportion to one another. Wealth is Power.

Bonne Chance!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:19 | 2339660 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

"...and despises those who hate those who are more successful than them."
            WHAT?
Life Call Commercial "I've fallen and I can't get up!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQlpDiXPZHQ (0:59)

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:29 | 2340183 seek
seek's picture

The tax rate is immaterial in the sense that it won't solve the problem. Rates are nonsense, it's the definitions of income and ultimately total tax collected that matters -- there's one freaking page of tax code covering rates, and tens of thousands covering what "income" is. The 91% rate was a pure fiction, because deductions were far more permissive.

We're up against the Laffer curve here. Tyler ran a story on this just within the past 24 hours: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/real-tax-rate-conundrum

In the US (which has an unusually high tax compliance) we've never brought in more than about 25% GDP as taxes, and it's more like an average just below 20%. So the upside in tax revenue, best case, is a 25% increase. We're already deficit spending above this increase.

So you're right. It won't fix the deficit. And given how the spending is going on, nothing will.

To think raising the top rate to 91% will fix anything is insane -- under the current rules for deductions, it would flat out put a bullet in the head of virtually every small business owner. Indeed, it is a bad idea -- unless you're a supporter of fascist big government and corporations, for whom this is great, as they'll be exempt and it'll cause competition to disappear in droves.

Make you a deal, though. I'd happily support a 70% top tax rate -- provided we get to operate under 1950's tax rules. As a top-rate taxpayer, my effective tax (which is about 34% these days) would drop, since I'd be able to deduct virtually every expense I have. Credit card interest, student loan interest, shit, fucking everything was deductible back then; you'd have to be earning something on the order of $19 million in inflation adjusted dollars as earned income to actually experience the top tax rate in the 1950s. It applied to no one.

Seriously, get a clue. It's not a false choice. The fucktards in DC have been handing cash out like candy to those who didn't earn it, the credit card is maxed out, the jobs lost, and the bill has come. The whole mess is going boom.

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:29 | 2339498 dbomb12
dbomb12's picture

Maybe old warren could lead the way if he paid the 1 billion he already owes from backtaxes

Report: Buffett's Berkshire Owes $1 Billion In Back Taxes

Thursday, 01 Sep 2011 06:37 PM

By Newsmax Wires

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:32 | 2339511 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Funny thing about taxes and unintended consequences.  When Maryland marxists increased the taxes on millionaires, the next year produced less total revenue.  Duh.  Who could have foreseen that?

Duh squared

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:33 | 2339512 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Crash the system, crash it now.  Only then will we will find out who's labor is actually worth a shit, and only then will capital start flowing to productive people and ideas, until then, the captial mis-allocation and mal-investment continues, taxes are now totally fucking irrelevant, especially for the rich (thanks by the way - when my father had a lesser income than I in the 1980's, he was taxed at over 50%, my total tax on all revenue streams is about 22% right now).

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:26 | 2339680 TMT
TMT's picture

We had a golden opportunity to reboot the system in 2008 but we opted to do the exact opposite.  That's too bad because now we would be in a much better position.  Thanks Bush, BHO, Bernank, et al.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:44 | 2339932 centerline
centerline's picture

Your just scratching the surface TMT.  Keep asking questions.  The rabbit hole goes much deeper.  Shit, I'm lost down here at this point (most of the time) and still haven't found bottom (or maybe have and don't know it) - but I can tell for sure you haven't connected cause and effect yet, or recognize useful idiots, etc.  On the right track though.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:34 | 2339517 Bull and Co.
Bull and Co.'s picture

Video in this article makes the same point just as eloquently

http://www.businessinsider.com/dallas-fed-fisher-debt-video-2012-4

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:04 | 2339548 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

An asset tax would be the biggest margin call to ever hit the stock market!  Who's going to ring that bell?

How would an asset tax even work?  Say you're taxed 30% on assets as of Dec 31.  If people wait to start selling assets to make the payment, by April the market could be cut in half or less and after payment you're down 80%?  Retire on that...

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:45 | 2339559 wisefool
wisefool's picture

You are wrong on this one Tyler. Doctors would tell you the typical first few doses of heroin/cocaine/crack/crystal meth/tobacco have absolotely no long term effect on a persons health. Its the mission creep ........ 80,000+ pages.... trillions offshore that "can not possibly" be brought back .... etc

lots of comments about aristocracy and fuedal lords. successfull people leaving the USA instead of of just sending their money out of the USA. The fuedal lords in the old days had to atleast show up on the feild of battle, and many went in first. Good for you Uncle Warren.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:09 | 2339630 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

Good ole Uncle Warren and his "The USA is like a farm"  BS back in 2002, when the US gov was going in to the hole just $200 Billion a year.

Now that the US gov. goes into the hole $1 Trillion plus a year, Uncle Warren now calls our situation AAAA!

The cult of personality surrounding Uncle Warren is staggering.  At the time of our greatest needs, Uncle Warren is going around telling us that the banks are money good, the US Gov. is AAAA rated and the USA is #1!

Of course, if the USA actually had free markets, Uncle Warren and his bank stock owning corp. would have gotten their ass handed to them in 2008.  But don't try and mention that to any of the cult members, they simply cannot handle the facts and its consequences.

Rick and everyone else with half a brain is right, there is no way out of this mess.  The math is staggering.

Its a catch-22 situation the whole way.  The USA becomes a third world country, printing or no printing.  The time to "fix" things has long since passed.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:45 | 2339734 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Oh I am not a groupie. Uncle warren knows his connections and the pandoras box  called the tax codes is what made him wealthy. This is what sanguine people do at the end of their lives.

The problem is people like Romney. Saturday night live spoofed him this weekend. He is so out of touch that he really thinks his "brilliant" allocation of capitol created jobs. Sure it did, but it destroyed just as many. East St. Louis used to be one of the best towns in america. What happened? Some whiz kid like romney said "I can leverage this plant to the hilt, knowing I am going to shut it down, never repair or upgrade it and use the leverage to build a new one. When the time is right I can say the Old plants are too far gone and can not be saved. cost free bankrupcy good-company bad-company" Not a drop of risk was truly taken.

This is exactly how Romney made his money, and maybe sometime these "decisions" need to be made, but it is not rocket surgery, and it certainly does not explain why a guy making $50k per day pays a lower rate than a person making $50k per year. And unlike Buffet, Romney is clueless. I hope people understand the true meaning and history in that SNL skit aired last weekend.

Anyone who is not medical doctor, top researcher in energy, etc. can gladly leave my country with your "talent" and your benny bucks if it upsets you that you should pay the same tax rate as wisefool. Dont let the door hit you on the way out.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:00 | 2339786 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

I gave you TU, for being coherent.

But, I must point out, that we could fiddle with the tax code for ever, but, there is simply no way to tax our way out of our current mess.

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:04 | 2339800 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I gave you a thumbs up cause you actually solved the problem in the contrapositive!

Ron Paul. write in 2012.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:15 | 2339847 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

We agree on Ron Paul!

Signed,

Young Dipshit

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 17:49 | 2339567 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Taxing labor at a rate higher than capital gains is immoral. Who cares about its impact. Two people, one making $50k/yr working and one making $50k/yr investing should pay the same rate.

One of the reasons we are in the situation we are in is because we rationalize everything based on economic impact rather than doing what is right and fair. See everything.

And using maryland is not a good analog. Show me an example of federal taxes driving people completely out of the US. The people in maryland (among one of the smallest states) probably moved twenty miles to avoid that tax. Not exactly a big life changing move.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:02 | 2339603 riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

Its not right because you say so?  Why not lower taxes on labor then?  Why is it necessary to raise the tax on someone else?

The reason we are in the situation we are in is very simple. The government is taking money from one person who rightfully earned it and redistributing that money to another person who has not earned it. A society does that long enough and  the tatoo shops and corrupt bankers will grow up around you like weeds in an unkept garden.

I will add that if you understood how your statist desires are funded you would realize that the situation would be much worse had the capital gains tax been higher over the last 10 years. There is a reason bushs tax cuts are now obamas tax cuts. 

 

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:05 | 2339813 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

"Why not lower taxes on labor then?"

OK. I made no argument about absolute rate, my argument was the relative rates between these two sources of income.

The reason it's not right is because our tax system is based on income and both labor and investment return is both income. That is my issue. I'll turn it on you, how is it "right" that two people earning the same amount should pay different rates?

I'm not sure how you could deduce my "statist" desires from my post.

My point as it relates to economic efficacy vs. what is right is that things like money printing, tax policy, bail outs, etc, are all based on shoring up the economy rather than doing what is fair and right.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:01 | 2339610 TooRichtoCare
TooRichtoCare's picture

Obama is so far down the Socialist path he makes Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, Ed Balls, Ed Milliband and Hariet Harman look like Reagan conservatives...

Are Americans really so stupid that they can't see how Obama's rich-bashing class warfare is so clearly a stunt to distract from his complete failure in economic management? Are people so blinded by their rage against Bush and the whole Iraq/WMD thing that they can't realise they've jumped from the frying pan into the fire? They should've gone for Hillary.  At least she's got some semblance of sense in her Democrat brain. McCain & Palin would've been a disaster, but jeezuss people, look at what you voted into power!  Is this what you thought you were gonna get? Can you honestly say you're happy with the result?

I've never been more scared for America than I am now.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:36 | 2339703 11b40
11b40's picture

"I've never been more scared for America than I am now."

Exactly how I felt when the Supreme Court stopped the recount in FL in 2000 and annointed Bush the Lesser.  So far, that gut feeling has proven to be correct.  From that point forward, America has gone straight down the tubes as all the rules for elites were wiped from the law books.

Remeber this quote from Shrub?

"Some people call you the rich, but I call you...my base."

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:53 | 2339758 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Oxymoron!

Too rich to care has never been more scared for America.  ;O)  

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:07 | 2339624 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Millionaire's blood mixed with billionaire's greed will save us from US Government liabilities!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:09 | 2339633 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

Why doesn't Warren Buffett put his checkbook where his mouth is and send Obama a check for $40 billion dollars. Warren will still have $5 billion to live on - this should be enough for a frugal man. Obama could then use the money to pay for 6 months of food stamps - SNAP !!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:29 | 2339670 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Buffett is obviously a hypocrite. If he sends his money to charity (which I think is stupid, but ok) then he clearly thinks charity is a better destination for his money than government spending. So then why does he want more taxes? It doesn't make any sense. If he wants more taxes he would pay less to charity and more to government. But again the fact that he doesn't proves he is a hypocrite.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:01 | 2339971 wisefool
wisefool's picture

The Romney counter argument is that "we should not consider taxes/government a charity."

If buffett gets people to talk about the tax code. he is good by me. Now back to our regular program: "dancing with the romneys"

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:29 | 2339663 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

ZH terds are arguing about who's the prettiest horse at the glue factory. 

Income taxes are a key co-dependency to the precious Federal Fraud and Racketeering Reserve.  Heads and tails you lose because of this marxist arrangement.  FROM each according to their ability; TO each according to their incorporated racketeering frauds.  Socialized loss, privatized profit, TBTF all root in this sinister collusion.

NO FUCKING TAXES ON INCOME!

END THE BULLSHIT!  END THE FED AND INCOME TAX ENTIRELY!

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:29 | 2339690 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I agree, everyone should stop paying taxes and let these fuckers wither and die! Its ALL theyve got is the slaves compliance!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:11 | 2339833 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Taxes are lower than they've been in fifty years...

 

Maybe I should write that in all caps so you can understand...

 

TAXES ARE LOWER THAN WHEN REAGAN RAISED TAXES ELEVEN TIMES BITCHES!!!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:31 | 2339895 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

Which taxes?  Income taxes, OK sure, I'll agree.

But what about capital gains taxes?  Or Corp. taxes (Which everyone wants to to harp on as being high, but they never mention that this is BEFORE deductions.)

What about taxes on booze and cigs?

Or, property taxes?

School bonds?

Where I live, the local politicians want to charge $1,800 if you cut down a tree on your property.  I don't know if this law passed, but I sure do hear alot of chainsaws these days.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:39 | 2339919 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Oh no... your cicarette taxes are higher. Boo Hoo. So are mine. 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:47 | 2339928 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

Great rebuttal.  You really got me thinking.  I my even change may opinion.

Ahh, no. 

Yet another dipshit "expert" on taxes.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:49 | 2339941 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Your only rebuttel is that your cigarette and booze tax is larger than your capitol gains taxes or income taxes.

 

Well... I think that says enough about your financial expertise.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:55 | 2339956 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

They were fucking examples, dipshit.  You know using examples to back an opinion in a rebuttle to your statement,

"Taxes are lower than they've been in fifty years..."

English motherfucker! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:06 | 2339983 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Yes I speak English...

 

Who are you... Louie Gohmert? 

 

Check tax rates in the US. Taxes ARE lower than they've been in fifty years. Where do you get information from... Pat Robertson? 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:25 | 2340029 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

Boy, you really are special.

How about the corporate tax rate, AFTER DEDUCTIONS.  Which, TODAY, are lower as percentage of GDP, in......wait for it........not yet.......almost there......50 years!

Or, how about capital gains taxes?

How about car registration?

How about parking tickets? 

How about parking meters?

Or, toll roads and bridge tolls?

How about sales taxes in many states?

What about fishing licenses?

State and National Park fees?

 

 

Or, now the real big one, inflation.  INFLATION. Yes, thats rigth.  You know, the common effect of prices rising faster then your income.  Now, shoot, were does inflation come from?  Could we not call that a tax?  Or did you do you think that GDP is up 1000% since 1970 because we're so damn perfect?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:44 | 2340076 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Toll Roads????

 

That's privitation baby. That's been going on for a few years:

 

Read 

The Highwaymen

Why you could soon be paying Wall Street investors, Australian bankers, and Spanish builders for the privilege of driving on American roads.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2007/01/highwaymen

Shall I get into Blackwater?

What about Charter Scools?

Making prisions a for-profit business?

 

Ironically... the more we privatize basic services. The worse things become.

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:49 | 2340089 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

I'll agree with your point on privitization.

But, please, do not tell me taxes are lower then they have been in 50 years.  Not when we are talking about the aggregate amount.

And of course, not when we include inflation.

Yes or no?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:11 | 2340139 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

I will disagree with you.

 

But I will try my best to not be as snarky as I was before. Cool? Cool...

 

OK then.

 

The ECB had a game (I'm not kidding... a game) on their website where you scored higher with lower unemployment... as opposed to inflation.

 

Here's the link: http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/11/18/372102/economia-the-game-of...

The lower the employment the better.

The higher the employment... you lose the game.

It is true... better economies also produce higher inflation.

 

The idea that we need to fight inflation... truly only protects those who are already wealthy. Not the real ecomomy. 

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:36 | 2340203 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Correction,

I wrote:

 

"on their website where you scored higher with lower unemployment... as opposed to inflation"

 

I meant "lower employment"

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 00:29 | 2340698 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

Intersting link.

 

The idea of inflation, in general is misunderstood.  Better economies DO NOT come from inflation or are caused by inflation.  Good times = more credit available = inflation and of course the opposite is true as well, bad economies = less credit available = deflation. (all things being equal, which, of course they're not)

It actually should works like so.

Joe Blow comes along and invents a new process that allows him to make candles cheaper, better and/or faster (pick two).  Now Mary Sue Consumer has more money available to spend at either the butcher or the baker.  Prices for meat and bread rise, drawing in new competitors into the meat and bread markets, which has the effect of drawing down the prices of meat and bread.  In the end, the world/economy is ever so slightly deflationary as this process never ends. (Unless you print to much money, BTW)

This can be proved by simply using agriculture as an anecdote.  It used to be that 90%+ of the world's population were farmers.  But through education, technology and yes, dumb luck, society was and is able to feed itself using much less labor and capital inputs.  In fact today, in the USA, only 2% of the population are farmers.  The Krugmans of the world would tell us that the free market "efficiences and free markets" would cause alot of unemployment, a drop in tax revenue and deflation, but, it is the unseen gains as both capital and labor are freed to pursue new avenues of wealth creation, that they never seem to grasp.

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:13 | 2339999 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

I guess when one had a pension back then they didn't have to save as much money for retirement.  I'm sure what will happen is the higher capital gains tax will end up being imposed on the middle also and they will be hit the hardest.  

 

here's some more for the list:

sales tax increases

water rate increases

telephone tax increases

alcohol tax increases

license and registration fee increases

hotel tax increases

gas tax increases 

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:28 | 2340185 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Inflation ain't goin' away... Blame the free market.

Unless you want a complete market collapse where nothing is worth anthing (that's not happening, especially in a growing economy and shrinking world).

I assume one of your concerns is the Federal Debt. Right?

Well. We could lower taxes for the rich and raise the taxes on the poor. How would that take care of the debt? Or the defict (two very different things that most folks get confused)?

 

That's Paul Ryan's plan. Romney has adopted it.

 

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:27 | 2339685 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

The Top 400 Families in America.. Earned (Stole) 93% of ALL Profits in 2009, 2010, 2011! The Top 400 Families! Have More than the Bottom 150 Million People!

EAT the TOP 400!!

The Few must pay their back Taxes to benefit the many, 150 Million Many!!

EAT THE TOP 400!

Spread the Word!

This is Sustainable! Next we eat the Top 800! And then the Top 1,200.. to the Top 1,600! And so on!

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:41 | 2339724 TMT
TMT's picture

Fucking exhibit A of ZH being infected with OWS pimple faced, mad at the world, basement dwelling, I hate those who are successful.  Fucking sad that an otherwise informative site is coopted by some who are pissed they failed in this life.

I've recommended this site to a bunch of associates.  Without fail the feedback has been that the articles are spot on, but the OWS angle of some in the community is enough to look elsewhere for insightful analysis.

Someone needs to turn off the power at Zuccotti Park.  Take a shower and fuck right off.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:55 | 2339765 jomama
jomama's picture

basement dwelling?  you've really got some fucking audacity spewing your tripe like that.

i live quite well, but i'm no 'millionare'.  and i'll be damned if i make a 'fortune' on the backs of the less fortunate - or as you put it, the people who are too fucking stupid to figure out how to rip everyone else off.

your holier-than-thou drivel is a prime indication with what's wrong with this country.

and btw, if you like the analysis, don't forget to hit the donate button, douchebag.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:58 | 2339772 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Or people who actually used to work on Wall Street. And know how fucked the business is from the inside.

 

But some of us aren't global warming denying creationistists buiding bunkers in fear of the evil black man in the oval office who is gonna steal your gold and guns.

 

And we actually get OWS has valid points (minus the crazy Ron Paul kids that have never seen the Libertarian pardise otherwise known as Somalia). 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:37 | 2340206 CommonSense89
CommonSense89's picture

Somalia has no relationship to the stateless society desired by anarcho-capitalists. Please read here for proof and comments by researchers who actually lived in Somalia: http://c4ss.org/content/2859

 

And the lumping in of global warming deniers with creationists is rather cute. Unfortunately, global warming deniers actually read current temperature trend reports (as in, science). To believe in man-made climate change, you truly have to be just as indoctrinated as the average creationist.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:35 | 2339911 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I don't resent successful people.

What I do resent is people that make their living off slave labor in 3rd world countries, people who live off the taxpayer as well as people that can create money out of thin air.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:10 | 2339992 Quisat_Sadarak
Quisat_Sadarak's picture

Pretty sure exhibit A is channelling Johnathan Swifts satirical "Modest Proposal".  Try reading it and see if you agree ;-)   Eat the rich.  Now that's rich.

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:28 | 2339687 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Cant someone just hit Buffet on the head with a mallet and be done with it?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:50 | 2339750 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Somebody must've dropped Santelli on his head.

How else can you explain his nonsense?

 

As far as Buffett goes... He's right more often than not.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:36 | 2339914 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Yeah, Mr. Bailout himself.  He's admitted on CNBC that if it weren't for the bailouts he'd probably be eating at McDonalds.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 22:55 | 2340452 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Yup... and without the bailouts.... US taxpayers would be on the hook for 4.2 trillion of Cititbank and Bank of America's deposits and liabilities alone.

 

As much as I hate the bailouts. Without them we would've been more fucked.

 

We should have broken them up... Re-installed Glass-Steagall... But no... that's aparently big government and socialism.

 

---sigh

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:00 | 2339785 bidaskspread
bidaskspread's picture

That wouldn't happen; he needs to pull a Paulson first......they'll create a special government position for him so he can sell his fortune and pay zero captail gains due to conflicts of interest.... it 's only his fair share of the gang-bang.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:03 | 2339801 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

For a minute there I thought you meant Pat Paulson.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:37 | 2339707 Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

So far, it has done little to correct the source of the problem. Only this will put off thereadjustment of the accounts and tried to "share" the crisis in the world. In this context, the formula Buffett has no importance. We are getting ready to go. the solution to this problem is to cut spending and raise taxes. Sooner or later, we touched pay part of all this trouble. Do not hesitate.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:42 | 2339725 BunnyMunroe
BunnyMunroe's picture

Santelli is an idiot.

 

He made his living trading both government and private debt.

 

He wouldn't have had a career without the concept of debt.

 

Ironically the biggest creditor of US Debt the Goverment owes money to is ITSELF.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:43 | 2339727 lostintheflood
lostintheflood's picture

who gives a shit?

like it even matters...

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:45 | 2339736 Diamond Jim
Diamond Jim's picture

you guys are forgetting about the single term most important in this discussion.....the word is "fairness", the concept...re-distribution of wealth in this country. It is not about paying off the Fed debt..........

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:06 | 2339812 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Nah, fairness is the ruse by which the Criminal-Elite get you to elect their puppets to go about the important work of re-distributing wealth from average Joes like you to themselves.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:10 | 2339831 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

I would simply suggest that the spending and revenues will not be enough and that an inevitable destruction of debt will have to occur just to return us to sane if not more realistic levels of spending within our means going forward.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:47 | 2339938 centerline
centerline's picture

Or preservation of debt at all costs.  However, to most of the world it will feel the same.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:18 | 2339857 bjfish
bjfish's picture

O'blamer doing what he does best ... rallying the uninformed masses... Putting politics and himself before all else.

Also, can't we vote MDB off this island.  He's gotta be a paid campaign hack to repeatedly say such stupid things. Maybe its J Corzine, last I heard he needed a job.

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:32 | 2339899 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

Santelli's doin' a good job honing his act! CircusNBC can now compete with Snooki so it seems.

Funny to hear a man talk about distractions and diversions and at the same time be one.

Just for fun, reverse Santelli's math and take ZERO away from those groups of millionaires. We're still in a ditch and he knows it.

Apples and Oranges.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:41 | 2339925 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Banksters have to get the $31 billion from the 95% to 99% to pay for the drones to f'n kill us with.

How about this instead: Impeach Obama!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:44 | 2340075 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Courtesy of Atomizer...
Obama is monitoring the situation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOBpG6RjokQ (1:55)

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:03 | 2339973 luna_man
luna_man's picture

 

 

Us lower classes, are already decimated!...Dig deep!...

Yo money, is OUR money!...Or, get to packin!...Right?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:06 | 2339980 zot23
zot23's picture

Not sure I agree with your detective work there Dan.  Oh, you betcha!

So $225 billion from Buffet Rule + $700 billion repealing Bush Tax Cut (really just letting them expire) = ~$1 trillion.

Hmmm ... that's almost quite a fuckload of revenue.  

Throw some cuts to medicare in the form of negotiated drug pricing, end the wars, cut the military again for giggles, trim SS, and we're almost getting somewhere.  

Buffet rule is just fine, any rich wage earner who would flee the nation based on being asked to pay a fair share is welcome to go, what good are they?  You know how much the govt takes ont he way out if you go expat?  It ain't peanuts my friends.  If you are a citizen abroad, you still must pay US taxes.  Really,  people taking their stash and going rogue isn't a real threat.

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:14 | 2339998 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

1 trillion equals 5 months of government spending.

And than what?

And enough with this "fair share" bullshit. 50% of Americans pay NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX. When are they gona' pay their fair fuckin' share?

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 01:55 | 2340805 Amagnonx
Amagnonx's picture

The 50% that are paying should just wake up and realize its all just theft, and stop paying.  Besides here are some legal arguments against paying income tax.

 

1.  If they take you to trial before a judge, the judge and the prosecution both represent the state, this is a conflict of interest and obviously you aren't going to get a fair trial.

 

2. If you don't pay taxes they are likely to charge you for a crime, but without an injured party - there is no crime.  A claim of being injured by your non payment would require them to produce a contract.

 

3.  If they cite the constitution as a contract, then it is easy to show that your signature does not appear on it, and in fact nobody ever signed it - it was only witnessed, and all the witnesses are now dead.

 

4.  In fact there is no legal basis for the existence of the US state. 

i) There is no evidence that the population voluntarily supports the state because taxation is compulsory, backed by force. 

ii) The supposed contract is not signed by the people. 

iii) The state is alledged to be composed of citizens.  The definition of citizens is that in return for an oath of allegiance the state provides protection - this has been tested legally, most recently and publicly in the case where survivors of 911 tried to sue the state - but the result was resoundingly that the state has no duty of care.  Therefore the reciprical agreement is broken that defines citizens, in other words there are no citizens - ergo no state - ergo no legal basis to compel anyone to pay taxes.

 

Fair doesn't come into it - its purely extortion.  When you strip away the BS, the government is a small, violent monopoly - they claim a monopoly on initiating violence - they have no duty of care, they do not listen to the people, and they abuse the rights and freedom of the people - how does that translate into moral authority?

 

Stop paying them, they have no moral authoprity - there is no contract - if you don't want to pay them - stop doing so.  The only reason that people keep paying is because they are affraid of the consequences if they don't.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:12 | 2339997 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Pure Hogwash!  The top 100 Wall Street thieves have amassed $2.2 trillion among them.  They spend some of that money buying Senators and COngress critters.  If you took away $2 trillion they'd still be filthy rich.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:26 | 2340031 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

FairTax.

Anything short of that is out and out lying, tax code gimmickry and shite.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:40 | 2340063 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Wake me up when they start talking Jimmy Buffet instead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCcXqFCMSbo&feature=player_detailpage
same with the rest of ya.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkVijd9g_Hk&feature=player_detailpage
SHUT THE PHUCK UP PLEASE!

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 00:05 | 2340068 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

Somewhere, Glenn Beck is smiling Ricky.

 

Keep talkin' solutions and you might just get a slot on GBTV.

 

Douche.

 

(edit)

Upon further consideration, he is a douche.   And he should think about his futures on GBTV.

 

yep, double down bitchez. Santelli is not part of the solution..

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:52 | 2340096 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Rick Santelli and his kids are welcome in my SHTF bunker anytime (call ahead so I can get extra food) for speaking truth so sincerely and pasionately on MSNBC.  I'm sorry for all the good people that will be affected, I'll be happy to see the others rot.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:13 | 2340141 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

what can i say,... i like RICK, period!

'there are alot of smart, courageous, and good people out there, that refuse to keep their mouths shut - when it comes to being a truthsayer, the rickster is at the top of the list!'

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:18 | 2340153 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

(which incidentally will achieve nothing to fix America's gaping deficit problem, but will certainly succeed in driving many wealthy people away from this country)

 

And hopefully they take their fucking tax loopholing, MIC bloating, no-bid contracting, WAR mongering, central banking psychophantic lobbiest/legislative whores with em'

 

 

i said good day!

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:03 | 2340479 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Well said.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:18 | 2340531 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"psychophantic"- I love it!

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 09:47 | 2341349 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

You Sir are no better, in this case, than a Zimbabwe peasant wishing the white farmers would leave.  Probably way more than half the rich in this country are disproportionately responsible for what little growth and technological advance we have.

Our dependency society rests on their shoulders and you naively hope they will shrug.  Will you, can you, pick it up or have you reached the point where fairness is more important to you than standard of living?

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 13:34 | 2342215 W10321303
W10321303's picture

fairy tales are for small children and half wits...how are you little girl?

Like Apple right? All their patents are MADE in GERMANY....where they have social democracy, anti-trust laws, and the good sense to put their R&D money in something other than Weapons of Mass Destruction...

Way more than half the rich....Oh brother, you are another one of those totally foooooled zombie consumers....

Dependency society....you mean all of the subsidies that the Super Rich get in exchange for the legalized bribes they give the GOP Serial Killer Clowns From Outer Space and the Demorats, right? That's what you mean right?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 22:35 | 2340383 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

a one time tax on all assets is coming

They won't call it a tax. It will be a special assesment or something like that. Just like a special assessment on your condo isn't really part of your maintenance fee.

or some such bullshit (Mike Myers, "The Love Guru") 

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:03 | 2340478 Pike Bishop
Pike Bishop's picture

I try to stay away from the hardcore financial porn like CNBC, but who is this Santelli guy and what did he do with the guy with the same name who used to wear the traders' jacket?

Does the suit mean you have been promoted to pimp? When did he start running interference for the same guys he was saying were going to get their asses kicked during the cheap money, house bubble, and bullshit and bad statistics of 2006-7. He used to chew-up Liesmanure's Goldilocks Economy.

Well, it costs a lot of debt to keep the same shithouses intact. Nobody got their ass-kicked and their shit assets had to be hidden. Santelli was right, he just didn't expect to be 10X righter than he thought. The capital had to be replaced and the workforce eliminated to mimic an elevation act.. It WAS all vapor and smoke and mirrors that he was biyatching about.

If the capital had been rightfully priced to market, the fuckin' capital holders of debt paper, stockholders, and counterparties would have paid the bill. Instead, the nation has to pay the bill. As completely stupid as that seems, the same people he's pimpin' for, delivered Obama, financially retarded Republicans, and the Geithner-Summers-Bernanke Show.

Then you have a National Gov't and Economy for the Residents which is just a fuckin' economic blackhole in disguise.

Who gives a shit about the big capital holders, they are livin' on the largess donations that saved their par. Whose yields are being poured back into Washington.

The whole bill (whatever) IS pathetic. Because everything which should have been done, wasn't done. And any meaningful clawback wouldn't see the light o' day. This is an after-the-fact faux attempt at "justice"?

The solution has always been simple. Everybody brings out their shit from the blackboxes and puts it on the table. Fed too. We're gonna go around with one of those grocery pricing guns and mark everything to market. It's been 4 years, what's the problem?

The "liquidity crisis" is long over and Banks are "sounder" than ever.

So let's go.

No?

Santelli was hot-to-trot for the government to do something meaningful... Well, how 'bout they reinstate the law of inconvenience, like FASB 157? Which was 'temporarily" suspended.

You can be pissed at Bernanke because we don't know the price of anything...

... but even his plan could have never materialized without FASB 157 on the bench.

BTW, now are you to take this new Santelli guy more seriously, because he screams and thrashes?

Is he the John Holmes of the Financial porn?

 

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 00:39 | 2340716 TheDavidRicardo
TheDavidRicardo's picture

No offense to retards, of course.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 13:28 | 2342183 W10321303
W10321303's picture

Drive the rich away from America? Oh please, please, don't leave us all of you blood sucking vampire zombies....how could we go on without you?...please, please stay, otherwise all of those local TV stations will go out of business due to lack of false advertising political campaigns coming any day now to our neighborhoods....but remember Oh Imperial Gilded Ones, there is no place to hide now...Can we say Free Radicals, Bunkee?

Can we say Fukishima, Oh Blessed Fat Cats?

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