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From "Buy The Rumor" To "Buy The Rumor Of The Rumor"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

From Peter Tchir of TF Market Advisors

We have now moved from buying the rumor, to buying the rumor of the rumor.

Is this another reason for stocks to bounce?  Or just admitting that EFSF is too confusing in its present form, and cannot do enough, and has so little support that we might as well move to ESM?  Maybe the EU members have decided that if anyone was going to spend more money in Europe, it should be something they control directly and not this super CDO? Maybe they finally realized that the EFSF was supposed to be replaced by ESM in 2013, but EFSF was going to issue 30 year bonds?  Maybe the German approval vote is more questionable than we are being led to believe? 

Maybe its as simple as the analysts noticed that the algo's no longer simply bought stocks when EFSF was in the headline, so have added ESM to push the market higher?

Who is this employee who left his briefcase open at a bar with a Bloomberg reporter? Or is someone sending out leaks, waiting to see how the market, responds, and if it's not good enough, they send out another leak?  It sounds bizarre. 

There is no longer any point watching this.  Those that are bullish will be cheered by each and every step, and believe it is a sign of more to come.  Those that are bearish will view each headline with derision, until something big and real happens one way or another. 

The price action seems as likely to be sucking out shorts, giving the longs some conviction, and I don't think the market is positioned as bearishly as it talks.  Too many people seem to really want (need) this market to go up.  If the market was as short as some people think, I believe we would be a lot higher already.  This is a pretty weak bounce given the drubbing of the past 48 hours and all the attempts at positive headline generation.

While we are all focused on the headlines out of Europe, I am wondering when S&P will take the axe to some bank ratings?  Back in January, S&P proposed a new methodology for bank ratings.  It was an open call for comments.  Given that Moody's started with their new methodology this week (blaming less government support), I wouldn't be surprised if we see action by S&P sooner than later.

 


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Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:07 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

We all know what happened after. $2bln total exposure? How sure is MS this time around?

Great time to add to the shorts. Desperate "Risk On" Brigade Gets A Morgan Stanley Reinforcement.... I thought I'd share a Dow Rosecast Bradley chart predicting the market directions:http://inkom.com.au/sites/defa... 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Irish66
Irish66's picture

Morgan Stanley CEO Moved To Quash Rumor About European Bank Exposure -Fox Business's Gasparino Last update: 9/23/2011 1:50:27 PM DOW JONES NEWSWIRES Morgan Stanley (MS) Chief Executive James Gorman called analysts to quash a rumor that the firm faced heavy losses due to its exposure to European banks, Fox Business Network's Charles Gasparino reported Friday. Gorman then ordered Morgan Stanley's traders to buy the firm's own debt in a bid to demonstrate its own financial health, Gasparino added. Gorman told bank analyst Richard Bove that Morgan Stanley's "net exposure" to French banks in particular was "zero," according to Gasparino's report. Full story at http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/09/23/morgan-stanley-bounces-aft...

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

I am sorry but do they really expect us to believe that they backed the truck up for $29 Billion of exposure but then hedged it down to $2 Billion?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

So I bought double long etf silver at 45, you know how I'm doing right now? I'm about to shoot myself.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:32 | Link to Comment whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

I think margin call usually go 5 days. Try to dollar cost average.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 15:02 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

 

So I bought double long etf silver at 45, you know how I'm doing right now? I'm about to shoot myself.

Please do.  Your trolling adds nothing to the board, and the fact that you bought paper at $45 (when was it last at $45, in April???) and held 'till now means you're an idiot.

So I bought a boatload of physical all the way up to $45 and still have it, not like you.  That means that the best thing for you to do is go shoot yourself.  One less inbred bankster would do the world some good.

 

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

We all know what happened after. $2bln total exposure? How sure is MS this time around?

Great time to add to the shorts. Desperate "Risk On" Brigade Gets A Morgan Stanley Reinforcement.... I thought I'd share a Dow Rosecast Bradley chart predicting the market directions:http://inkom.com.au/sites/defa... 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:18 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

(Rumored) Hope Springs Eternal.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

We all know what happened after. $2bln total exposure? How sure is MS this time around?

Great time to add to the shorts. Desperate "Risk On" Brigade Gets A Morgan Stanley Reinforcement.... I thought I'd share a Dow Rosecast Bradley chart predicting the market directions:http://inkom.com.au/sites/defa... 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

We all know what happened after. $2bln total exposure? How sure is MS this time around?

Great time to add to the shorts. Desperate "Risk On" Brigade Gets A Morgan Stanley Reinforcement.... I thought I'd share a Dow Rosecast Bradley chart predicting the market directions:http://inkom.com.au/sites/defa... 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

We all know what happened after. $2bln total exposure? How sure is MS this time around?

Great time to add to the shorts. Desperate "Risk On" Brigade Gets A Morgan Stanley Reinforcement.... I thought I'd share a Dow Rosecast Bradley chart predicting the market directions:http://inkom.com.au/sites/defa... 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

We all know what happened after. $2bln total exposure? How sure is MS this time around?

Great time to add to the shorts. Desperate "Risk On" Brigade Gets A Morgan Stanley Reinforcement.... I thought I'd share a Dow Rosecast Bradley chart predicting the market directions:http://inkom.com.au/sites/defa... 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:09 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

We all know what happened after. $2bln total exposure? How sure is MS this time around?

Great time to add to the shorts. Desperate "Risk On" Brigade Gets A Morgan Stanley Reinforcement.... I thought I'd share a Dow Rosecast Bradley chart predicting the market directions:http://inkom.com.au/sites/defa... 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:09 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

We all know what happened after. $2bln total exposure? How sure is MS this time around?

Great time to add to the shorts. Desperate "Risk On" Brigade Gets A Morgan Stanley Reinforcement.... I thought I'd share a Dow Rosecast Bradley chart predicting the market directions:http://inkom.com.au/sites/defa... 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:09 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

We all know what happened after. $2bln total exposure? How sure is MS this time around?

Great time to add to the shorts. Desperate "Risk On" Brigade Gets A Morgan Stanley Reinforcement.... I thought I'd share a Dow Rosecast Bradley chart predicting the market directions:http://inkom.com.au/sites/defa... 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Hence, my screen name.

It's all pointless.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:44 | Link to Comment navy62802
navy62802's picture

JFCWTF - Please stop the repeat postings. This is ridiculous.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Hence, my screen name.

It's all pointless.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

Tyler, have a better one for today.......called the magic $31.

 

Here is the fresh Bloomberg article today:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/morgan-stanley-gains-most-among-banks-as-france-concern-wanes.html

 

Deja vu. I had to re-read the article several times as something sounded rather familiar. Then my brain spit out something priceless......it was the price target of $31. Where did we hear it before? 

Here: "Morgan Stanley recommended investors buy Lehman Brothers LEH.N shares, setting a price target of $31" http://reut.rs/lDNMvr 

Magical $31.....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 15:15 | Link to Comment Shit Bag
Shit Bag's picture

What the fuck man.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:12 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Hence, my screen name.

It's all pointless.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

If a bullish rumor turns out to be false and causes you to lose money after being presented as investment "advice" on CNBS then it was just Optimism, a sunny outlook on life, and "betting on America!"

A negative rumor that turns out to be false was "rumor mongering" of the most vicious and un-patriotic type. In fact it was witchcraft, let's be honest. And through in a conspiracy theory too

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:15 | Link to Comment tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Jesus Christ Tzarist Bond Holder -- Do all of us a favor and turn off your computer.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:22 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

High Frequency Trading Mouse buttons suck.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:23 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

High Frequency Trading Mouse buttons suck.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:23 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

High Frequency Trading Mouse buttons suck.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:15 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

sorry guys, unsure what happend...posted 1 time, got a message ZEROHEDGE overloaded, now I look like a spammer......

 

sorry, how do I delete the extra dozen of same posts?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:19 | Link to Comment Bill D. Cat
Bill D. Cat's picture

I'll tell you ......it'll cost you tho .

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment fyrebird
fyrebird's picture

Never repost when the server is overloaded. It accepts everything, hungry lil bastard.

Now go back, edit those posts you dupped, and replace the contents with a "dup my bad"

No charge.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:16 | Link to Comment TzaristBondHolder
TzaristBondHolder's picture

turning off to prevent crap....sorry again

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:21 | Link to Comment bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

LOAD "*",8, 1

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:18 | Link to Comment bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

Look how fast gold and silver fall when no one is WILLING AND ABLE to buy it at a higher price.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:22 | Link to Comment Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

ESM should have capital in it from the start from each member state. Not like EFSF which is nothing but big bag of hot air, a headline for the momo algos. That's the original plan for it. Of course Germany and others started to water down the time frame in which the capital was supposed to be in place. The problem is that NONE of the member states have the required capital, hence the watering down. ESM is just hot air like it's predecessor EFSF. A big headline with pundits screaming "we want bigger". It's a promise to take on massive amounts of new debt to pay for the old debt which cannot be even serviced anymore not to mention pay back. It doesn't solve a single problem but makes the old problems worse. It's a failure already even when it's not up and running. That's the most important thing to know. It's too funny that noone EVER mentions what's gonna happen when Germany has it's next depression. When it needs it's resources for itself. There's nothing to give to any insolvent PIIGSF country or to any foreign bank. Folks, euro is done.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Reality is for pussies. Buy and be saved.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Peter K
Peter K's picture

Words. Just words.

BTW Speaking of WORDS, i bring you the one, the only, the greatest....... eveh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwwplStgzp4

And I dedicate this to the shorts who are riding this gab fest......:)

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:26 | Link to Comment Robslob
Robslob's picture

 

 

When I see gold and silver fall like today I know the end is near...just not for physical gold & silver owners like everyone wants to think today (Owner is defined by physical in one's own possession)

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment Peter K
Peter K's picture

Words. Just words.

BTW Speaking of WORDS, i bring you the one, the only, the greatest....... eveh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwwplStgzp4

And I dedicate this to the shorts who are riding this gab fest......:)

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

I already sold the rumor of a rumor that you haven't even bought yet.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 15:07 | Link to Comment bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

well then rumor has it that it's safe to buy that rumor as the rumored selling is over.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

It is the Pleiades bailout rumor all over again.  Untraceable and no number to call for a confirmation. He got if from a guy in Alpha Centauri so it has to be lightyears closer to the truth, right?   This is going to be better than thinking Microsoft is going to send you money to give away all your friends email addresses to spamcentral. Soon the various religions are going to get involved by going all in on one of their favorites coming back and leading a crusade against everyone bad-o.

When did "question" and "conspiracy theory" get newspeaked?  damn scientific method. compared to what?

 

 

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:50 | Link to Comment bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Why buy the rumor of the rumor, when you can start the rumor on ZH?

FIFO

=================
Hey, rumors are baby ponzi schemes, aren't they?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:49 | Link to Comment navy62802
navy62802's picture

Yesterday, I posted on a couple of ZH stories that traders today are reduced to simply reading the minds of central bankers. And this piece is just another example of that. Investments in today's market are not based on the merits of a company. Instead, they are based on the supposition that central bank "X" will take action "A" and it will have result "C." The markets are broken because of central bank involvement ... i.e. we do not have free markets. Trading on rumors is bad enough ... trading on the rumor of a rumor is even worse. Anyone who has any sense will keep well enough away from stocks and shift their investments more towards commodities until the storm has passed.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 15:15 | Link to Comment NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

People really have to start realizing that dumping money from banks to ECB, ECB to banks, sovereigns to EFSF, EFSF to sovereigns doesn't matter.  The loaners of this money A. will never get that money back and B. either had to print (inflate) to get it, tax their people or cut costs so dramatically that both of the latter create the death spiral you see in Greece.  YOU DO NOT COME OUT OF THIS STRONGER...all you do is delay the inevitable while piling more gas on the fire.  LET CAPITALISM WORK!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 20:45 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

People really have to start realizing that dumping money from banks to ECB, ECB to banks, sovereigns to EFSF, EFSF to sovereigns doesn't matter."""""

A 2,000 point Dow short squeeze might convince you, if the ECB prints

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:47 | Link to Comment SeventhCereal
SeventhCereal's picture

This was the silly putty bounce.  The sells are breathakingly strong and the little bounces are just an opportunity to short at higher prices thanks to uptick rule.

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