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Capitalism Versus Cronyism

Tyler Durden's picture


The sad 'this-is-how-politics-works' punchline of this brief animated clip is "those who can afford political influence get the benefits; and those who cannot afford it suffer the consequences" as Professor Matt Zwolinski attempts to balance the question the common claim that 'capitalism exploits the masses for the benefit of the few' - implicitly advocating increased government power - by suggesting (shock, horror) that government power may be more exploitative than free-market capitalism. In just over two minutes, Zwolinski argues that bigger government (thanks to cronyism among other things) makes citizens more vulnerable to exploitation given its power to coerce - intriguing given the recent comments by Obama.



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Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:07 | 2626120 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

Post-lapsarian man = no difference between capitalism and cronyism

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:10 | 2626130 Debtonation
Debtonation's picture

I went grocery shopping today and noticed that the can of soup that I usually buy has been reduced in volume from 24 oz to 20 oz but the price stayed the same.  Either the food industry is trying to trick people into eating less food so they are not so fat for the same price, or they are trying to trick people into thinking they are getting the same amount for the same price, a.k.a. hidden inflation of 20%.  Probably the second one.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:20 | 2626160 SheepRevolution
SheepRevolution's picture

If capitalism was to be set free just for one day, I believe  pretty much all banks on Wall Street would collapse.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:27 | 2626177 Racer
Racer's picture

a phantasecond would be enough

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:32 | 2626199 DoChenRollingBearing
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Read what Jim Clifton (CEO of Gallup, the pooling company) say sin his important new book:



Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:35 | 2626202 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Manifesto of the Progressive Revolution:

Part 1 - Personal Responsibility


It has long been the habit of both religious and right wing zealots to advocate ‘personal choice’ and ‘personal responsibility’. The progressive revolution takes a different approach. Instead of focusing on ethical principles that classify a choice as moral or immoral, we recognize that "choices" are in fact a myth. It is a myth that people are able to influence their circumstances by exercising free will, as has been detailed by many top philosophers at Ivy League colleges across America. The ProgrEssive rEvolution adheres to the work of the following ideologies that absolve people from the myth of personal responsibility:

1. Relativism

2. Determinism

3. Marxism

4. Subjectivism

5. Nihilism 


This knowledge frees people to take what they need from the state and to support policies that they know will work, without having to 'take responsibility' for any negative consequences to others that result from their choices. The consequences were simply meant to be, and are predetermined. If you get something from the government, you were destined to get it from the start, so you are not responsible for the effects to the financial well-being of others in the present OR future. This is the first principle of the progressive manifesto. 


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:03 | 2626277 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So O'Barry was right.

We didn't build anything including the government, so we therefore have no responsibility or allegiance to it. The debts are not ours they are the states and no one has any obligation to pay anymore taxes to support it.

"The consequences were simply meant to be, and are predetermined."

I'm starting to like the way you think ;-) 

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:14 | 2626312 Precious
Precious's picture

Would you rather be ass raped by a carrot or a broomstick?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:16 | 2626316 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Please clearly describe both the carrot and the broomstick.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 23:01 | 2626800 Anusocracy
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Hilary is riding the broomstick and the carrot is in a pot of boiling soup.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:19 | 2626315 francis_sawyer
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So MDB... If I come over to your house tonite... eat all your food, drink all your beer, & fuck your wife in the @55, I was destined to get it from the start (because we should all think of your stuff as collective state property)... I'm responsible for nothing else... I like the way you think too...

Except if you drink cheap beer, eat TV dinners, & your wife is a dog...

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 23:05 | 2626809 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Shoot the wife and kids, burn the house, but don't rape the dog.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 00:25 | 2627015 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I don't think he works for DHS.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:37 | 2626213 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Whoops sorry!  Here is the link to see what is in Clifton's important book:

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:24 | 2626334 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

I think it's time we review our priorities as a nation: banksters are the heroes. 

First off, they go through a lot just trying to keep America growing, working AND playing every single day. 

Second, they are the last true capitalists. They are the rock solid defense against the forces of evil that threaten us 24/7. 

And finally, all of us were never squeaky clean either. Who are we to point a finger of blame in their direction? People who live in glass houses....even foreclosed and underwater ones....shouldn't throw stones. 

I am calling for total and unconditional pardons and amnesty for all in the banking system, to cover their entire careers retro-actively and their golden parachutes plus ten years of earnings and bonuses. Keep in mind that they will get disgusted if we don't agree. 

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:51 | 2626377 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thats right...the Corzines and Squids and Fiskers and Pat Strykers of the world gotta eat too...who are we to judge them with our immaterial morals and ethics?

We're simply unworthy.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:03 | 2626405 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Wow. You're making me weepy. Peace, bro

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:25 | 2626456 nmewn
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I'm doin my MDB impression...but its starting to fry my brain.

You have to take what is real and reverse it...illogic becomes logic...abnormal becomes normal...sick becomes healthy and so on...going down the rat hole too far will kill you...half way just gives you a buzz ;-)

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:07 | 2626566 CloseToTheEdge
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The thing about the Golden Straitjackt is, the tighter you wear it, the more gold it produces.

Milton FreeAssFucksForTheRest

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 23:08 | 2626816 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Let's start a collection for a memorial wall with all their names on it.



Wed, 07/18/2012 - 02:23 | 2627148 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Its interesting that eliminating the FED would achieve exactly this result:  all money center banks would collapse.  The FED is incomptible with free markets as it is a banking cartel designed spefically to protect its members from competition and uses the bailout mechanism to prevent the creative destruction which is the essence of a market/capitalist economy.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:24 | 2626575 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



16.666% loss.

But whose counting?  

Unit pricing counts and I'll tell you this.  Tri-Tip locally at COSTCO has gone from $4.89 to $8.59 a lb. just in the last 24 months or so.

Case of Mexican Coke gone down from $22.39 a case to as low as $17.89 and now back to $18.29.  Same time frame.  Pure Cane Sugar/no change in volume of product.

MexiCoke, Tri Tip bbq...

And, speaking of elbows, the dispensery beats the hookup by 50%. 

Deep Thoughts.








Tue, 07/17/2012 - 22:18 | 2626721 AU5K
AU5K's picture

Difference is, you can buy a different soup brand.


You cannot fire the bureaucrats.


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:10 | 2626132 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Look here Max... You have a challenger to your title...


"The Most Annoying Man on the Internet"

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:07 | 2626291 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thats right up there with the most arrogant man in the white house.

"I don't often drink Kool Aid. But when I do, I prefer my own. Stay thirsty my lemmings"

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:15 | 2626146 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

This shit is fascism

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:29 | 2626185 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I swear that woman could suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch....

And enjoy doing it....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:42 | 2626230 centerline
centerline's picture

golf ball through 20 feet of garden hose.  lol.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:54 | 2626258 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

....suck-start a Harley....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 23:12 | 2626825 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Maintain a perfect vacuum at the Large Hadron Collider.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:40 | 2626227 runlevel
runlevel's picture

max i cant even stand your icon. your as leftist and clueless as they come. 

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:56 | 2626259 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Move to North Korea and fuck off. There's your extreme example of crony capitalism.

Solution? Liberty.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:10 | 2626300 Monedas
Monedas's picture

The Commonwealth of North Korea, Inc.           Monedas       1929        Comedy Jihad All For One And Meatless Won Ton For All

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:18 | 2626311 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

North Korea is your notion of crony capitalism?

You're dumb.

You'll never have capitalism devoid of cronyism. They're one in the same. I'm not sure if you've been asleep for the past 30 years, but the more regulation that we take away, the "more free" the markets, the worse the cronyism gets.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:50 | 2626376 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

You think we live in a capitalist society?  You are dumb.  We don't need 250 years of regulation.  We need more freedoms.  In other words Max, butt out of my life.  Its none of your business.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:01 | 2626400 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

the way I see it... the more layers of government regulation that are applied to markets, an equal scale of cronyism evolves...

Go ask your buddy Lev Davidovich Bronshtein (aka 'Trotsky')...

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:29 | 2626465 covsire
covsire's picture

Equate and berate: The creed of communists and other small minds.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 02:16 | 2627139 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Do you understand you just contradicted yourself? If you remove regulation there is no regulator. With no regulator/ruler/power broker there can be no deals or cronyism. If there is no cronyism then markets are free, in fact, forced to compete for the voluntary relationships of the consumer...unlike the involuntary and coercive relationship of the State with its, citizens.

Free markets eliminate cronyism completely.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 02:46 | 2627176 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 today it's the day I agree with you for the second time in principle only.

without regulators (which can be more or less corrupt) cartels can happen. I know this is against a lot of what has been written about free markets, but the way I see it it's again a matter of size in the partecipants of a market.

I maintain this depends from the market, the goods or services in question, the tariff and other law environment, the financing structure, etc. etc. etc.

I maintain there is no one market, only many diverse and heterogenous markets. the one for Picasso pictures is fundamentally different from the ones for electricity or socks or fish or drugs

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 21:48 | 2630462 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

To a degree, I agree that cartels can happen. The proper role of government is to prevent coersion of one person or group against another. Cartels really cannot control much without government intervention, power and protection. They can't make you buy a cell phone, the service or shop at least until the recent Supremely Stupid Court decision. Now government might be able to do that by calling it a tax. However, I am speaking in principle.

If a cartel or monopoly develops there are interesting discussions as to whether that is so bad or not. I prefer it to government intervention. I say that if a monopoly which charges excessively high prices it will engender it's own destruction as alternatives are developed or others come into the market to compete.

Additionally, if a monopoly develops it is because of one of two reasons; first, because the State granted favors or protection...a bad reason. Second, because it had the best service and products at the best price and no one could compete any longer, a good reason! What is interesting is that the State creates the first and wants to control the second. The State will be the common problem in both.

Markets are all the same in terms of supply and demand if left alone. They self regulate and self value. Picasso's sell for enormous prices that are voluntary. Medicine/healthcare and weapons sell for enormous prices in markets that are generally involuntary and fixed. One is priced by voluntary trade, the others are priced by government intervention.

I am willing to risk liberty. What I love about being libertarian is that I never have to talk about controlling others or their property. The only thing I care about is the absence of coersion in life and honoring property rights and contracts. You are free to trade, not trade, work, not work, not work hard, invent or not invent, risk or not risk, help or not help. You own yourself...but not me.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 03:19 | 2630919 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

again, I agree only in part. you are using what I see as useful approximations out of the libertarian tool box. they are quite good to get people to think, but often lack real world details.

take the illegal drug cartels as example: yes, gov intervention, though it's a negative intervention attempt.

I could argue that historically governments arise from the need to balance the influence of cartels, including the mother of all cartels, the defence and protection racket, best seen when a mobster explains to you that you don't have to worry because you are under his protection.

I know my opinion grates orthodox libertarian worldviews and I'm not challenging the intent of libertarianism, just some details of it's view on markets and human interaction.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 04:47 | 2630955 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"I know my opinion grates"

Indeed, it does, Ghordie! It boggles the mind how you could pull this howler as an example of government non-intervention:

"take the illegal drug cartels as example"

The drug "cartels" are "the government"!!!

A. American and British troops guard opium poppy production in Afghanistan, and use miltary transports to get the opium out! The sole reason for the invasion of Afghanistan just 4 weeks after 9-11 at the end of 2001 was to quickly get the poppies back into the ground -- after the Taliban had ripped them all up (causing a 96% reduction of the crop in 2001) in retaliation for American intransigence over oil pipeline royalty shares!!! (Look at the 2001 opium-heroin production in this chart:

B. The CIA runs cocaine from Colombia into the US -- facilitated by the protection of American bases in Columbia. See: “Colombia turning into giant US military base”

C. The CIA was running heroin out of Vietnam and the Golden Triangle during the whole of the Vietnam "War".

D. The Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has been caught illegally trafficking guns to the Mexican drug barons! The Attorney-General, Eric "Place-" Holder has stonewalled the "Fast-and-Furious" investigations!!

E. It was the CIA that contracted Eli Lilley to create and produce LSD - under government protection!!!

F. Both the British and American governments encouraged the opium traders operating through Hong Kong into China in the 19th century. The reason that Britain took Hong Kong from China in 1841 was to gain a deepwater port on the China coast at the instigation of the opium traffickers!!

Government involvement and protection has been evident for centuries! Without government laws and involvement, there would be NO drug cartels!!

I could mention many other examples, but that'll do for now.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 07:54 | 2631106 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

ok, ok, I concede that the drug cartels are due to (putatively negative) government intervention and that the secret services love to prowl there and use them. And yes, I agree with all the above, including the "crown jewel" of the Opium Wars.

mhmm... that part with the poppy production was new to me, got to think about it...

If it helps, I still can't fathom why the majority of the populations of this globe can think that prohibitions are in any way wholesome. I have the most furious arguments about that in my family - all convinced that banning drugs is "the only way" and "for the kiddies".

I should have stuck to the mobster example. Though in my mind a mafia/mob is a form of primitive/proto-government, too. Nevertheless, what do you think about the "Market for defence and safety"?

Yet I keep thinking that this "free-market" without any "help", "reg", "gov" does not function this way. And I keep thinking that it's like describing how people would behave in vacuum.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 09:34 | 2631408 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"what do you think about the "Market for defence and safety"?"


This is the easiest one for voluntarists to solve! -- even easier to address than private roads (whether toll roads between communities, or community funded internal roads/streets)!

Competition between private security companies and publicly available ratings of their respective levels of service are all that is required to provide safe homes, neighbourhoods and communities at very low cost.

This already operates in parts of the UK, where private security companies patrol neighbourhoods, check houses for homeowners who are away at work or on vacation, and break up any local gang activity -- at a fraction of the cost of the public security agency (the police) and with levels of service that the police don't even offer, let alone achieve. The simplest -- and totally free! -- expression of this is a "Neighbourhood Watch".

This also already operates with banks, large firms, and oligarchs ... they much prefer to trust an armoured car or building/home security firm than rely on Mr Plod to carry their cash or watch their warehouse!!


This is also very easily solved -- though not while the US military behemoth is stomping all over the world: we first need to break up the US military into smaller units (for example, by the 50 states each taking their share of men and equipment back from the hegemonic clutches of the Feds). I doubt that any ideologue of any stripe (other than a globalist) would suggest keeping the current US military intact and supplied with new equipment!

No nation state will embark on a war unless they perceive the potential gain to exceed the potential cost. In all current nations, the "prize" is the tax collection agency and apparatus, while the only other payoff is the possiblity of being able to extract any natural resources with the cooperation of the "captured" country (no invader wants to try shipping out natural resources while the whole population is actively attempting to stop them).

  • Countries with no tax collection agency (eg. Somalia, Greece, Sicily) will not get invaded because there is no revenue stream payoff. 
  • Countries with no natural resources also miss out on the invasion bonanza...because there are better fish to fry. 
  • Countries that are fully armed (eg. Switzerland during WWII) don't get invaded, because the invader doesn't wish to be the target of snipers from behind every tree and window (Hitler and Mussolini planned it, but didn't have the guts/stupidity to try it). 
  • Countries with nukes, or other WMDs, don't get invaded -- because payback's a bitch. 
  • Countries that form alliances with other strategically important friends don't get invaded -- because blowback's a bitch. 
  • Countries that don't threaten neighbouring thin-skinned dictators don't get invaded, because they may have other neighbouring sympathisers in the event of unprovoked attack (that's why NATO took out Egypt and Tunisia before going after Khadaffi).

See?! There are many options to consider - and more creative minds than mine could come up with many more innovative and non-aggressive (ie. voluntary) solutions. That's what diplomats are [supposed to be] good at!

Does anyone seriously think that Louisianna would invade Texas for access to oil? Or Texas invade Oklahoma for more grazing land? Or France try to invade England, again? (OK, bad example!)

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 12:08 | 2632337 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

ok, safety is the easiest - and I bristle at it. I have some experience with private security and I trust them even less than a Mexican policemen. nevertheless, I can't find a good argument against it. +1, though I might come back to you!

>>Edit: I've found one. It's "then the rich get more security than the poor". Sure, the rich have more property to guard, but let me make this "socialistic" argument that human dignity requires a basic safety "blanket" for everyone.<<

LOL - usually I'm quite fast at mocking this kind of what I call "bright-eyed wish-well oh-should-we-not-all..." positive view of human nature. I was expecting something I could stick a knife in, for example leaving out alliances or proposing private possession of WMDs. +1

The only thing I can counterask is: how do you keep people from asking "someone ought to do something" in the typical imperialist manner, like "we should embargo them..." or "bomb and invade them..." for the usual reasons like "they started to produce poppies..." or "they stopped the poppies production..." or "they won't let us finish the pipeline..." or "they won't pay back their debt" or "they mistreat their women" or "he attacked our family's allies the Kuwaiti even though the SecDef told him we would not interfere in their debt/oil and oil-price conflict" or whatever? I sympathize with those Japanese that remind us that gunboats were sent for their refusal to open their country to global trade...

This is the question some creative genius should find an answer. Meanwhile, we are stuck in this inperialist global-trade period of history.

LOL, don't get me into England and France! The last good thing that happened to Blighty was Duke William the Bastard! And a small spell under Boney would have done wonders! ;-)

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:28 | 2634505 i-dog
i-dog's picture

LOL ... Ghordie, if you don't think a little more deeply before replying to my posts, I'm going to have to assume that you are simply pulling boilerplates from 'Sockpuppetry101' (Cass Sunstein, 2008, CFR Publishing Inc)!!!

"I trust [private security] even less than a Mexican policemen"

Then seek compensation from the one that broke its contract with you and find another firm. Post your bad experience with them on an internet rating site ... then do some due dilligence before contracting with another firm, by looking up others' experience with other firms on the same site/s. It's how the supermarkets, coffee shops and housing estates do it in sensible parts of the world (like Asia).

BTW, most Western police forces have a similar reputation to your Mexican policemen ... so be careful trotting out that phrase in future debates. ;)

"then the rich get more security than the poor"

This is certainly the case with government-provided policing, and I'm glad you pointed it out! Try taking on police corruption if you are a "little fellow". I've taken them on in the past and succeeded only because my personal connections went way over their heads.

However, with private security, there is competition for customers and transparency of outcomes. Some poor areas could have far better security even than rich areas -- because the costs are visible and word-of-mouth far more prevalent.

For example, in the city where I live, a privately owned inner-city supermarket employs a private security firm to keep drunks and louts out of nearby parks and streets -- so that their customers are able to walk to their cars and apartments without being harassaed or robbed. It works wonderfully (while the government's previous efforts were appalling)!!!

how do you keep people from asking "someone ought to do something"

*Sigh* ... By making them pay...personally! People don't ask such questions if they personally have to pay for it!

Is Texas going to invade Iraq if their starting position is only a few nuke missiles, a citizen militia and alliances with neighbouring states? How are they going to convince other Texans (or Oklahomans!) to part with their wealth to purchase all the ships, planes, arms and uniforms needed to send an expedition to "bring democracy" to Afghani women?

Even if Iran is going to invade Kuwait (which I seriously doubt would happen in the absence of ZATO's political machinations), what freaking business is it of yours, or mine? If Kuwait asked for help, wouldn't all the people of the world who were "outraged" by Iran's aggression voluntarily put up the funds to finance a rescue mission? Bono and Geldof could even organise another concert! BTW, if I were Kuwait, I'd simply tell Iran that a nuke or two onto, or in, Tehran would immediately follow any invasion!

Your thinking on this point is so shallow and 18th century that it's about to evaporate!!

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:56 | 2634594 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

...shallow and 18th century...

concise & accurate description of our continental correspondents' dementia...

this appears to be a person who worships Boney(>!>?!?) and has so many non-sequitors shoved into a single comment as to have buried common sense and reason together in a shallow grave(along with the previously jettisoned pretense to all dignity!)

  evaporate> ?

perhaps yu mean vaporize... ? The allusion to 'libertarianism' betrays the classic denseness of the continental washed up upon the shores of an unknown land -the world of anti-statism- and mistakes the argument of black flag adherents for the pious dronings of Mt Pelerin style minions of the synarchist scam so beloved to austrians, autocrats, and honorary archdukes such as hisself...I am now convinced that he writes here whilst wearing a gaudy, epaulette-laden uniform of his own design, similar to the kind von Rompuy fantasizes himself to be wearing when sneering down from his podium at the huddled masses of plebians whom he pretends to rule!

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 03:35 | 2634993 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I see you have recuperated your spelling powers, congratulations. In regard to the black or red flags, yes, my experience and my sympathies are limited to my continental experience, the anarcho-syndacalists. I had once a chat regarding them with i-dog, though he gave me the impression of being shocked.

In regard to being washed up on unknown shores, yes, I admit this. How do you fare when you have this kind of experience? Or is your worldview already cut and dried?

I have no clue what your point regarding synarchism. If it helps, I have the impression you are mocking i-dog's views, not mine.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 04:20 | 2635049 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Ehhh!?! WOOF! Neither Joyous nor I are syndicalists (nor anarcho-syndicalists)!

That's just another form of collectivism created to not only split the ranks of anarchists but to also hijack the true message of anarcho-capitalism (or classical anarchy, not the bastard black-shirted bomb-throwing that the left not only portrays, but in which they also indulge when acting as agents provocateurs during demonstrations in Seattle, Paris, Athens and Madrid).

Boogey men everywhere!!! Be very afraid!!!

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 06:04 | 2635096 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

i-dog!! WTF??!! please. read. again. slowly. dammit. thanks.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 07:51 | 2635219 i-dog
i-dog's picture

There appears to be some confusion here due to what I thought was Joyful's playful mixing of words into a single amalgam. It's amusing to those with a penchant for kryptic krosswords and English as a first language, but could be confusing to those who have it as a second - no matter how well they appear to understand it, like yourself.

My apologies if my interpretation of his use of "synarchism" (for 'cynical' anarcho-syndicalism) is perhaps different from your interpretation (cynicism, perhaps?).  Or else I've missed something else entirely in either his, your or my post!!

In any event, I took exception to what I saw as a perceived attempt to use my name in two different posts for a Luciferian divide-and-conquer manouever. I must be having a 'cynical day' and will go take the requested time-out....

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 11:22 | 2636244 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I thought you would know the term - I have to confess I did not... synarchy, from the greek synarkhia, "to rule jointly". Is used by some to describe - in a way I find puzzling - the "government by secret societies" or "from behind the scenes". I don't understand where he is leading, but I find him neither playful nor joyful.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 11:51 | 2636366 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Thanks for the clarification, Ghordie. I didn't know of that term (so much for my stupid assumption!).

I'm going to extend my timeout and watch the synarchy [further] unfold....

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 06:26 | 2634988 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

thanks, i-dog. valid points. I <growl> a bit at your "sockpuppetry" lessons and smile at the fact that my arguments are a bit weak, those days. lots of other things happening, and I'm not used to this discussion format. what I write is just what comes at the top of my mind - always in a bit of a hurry because ZH is so fast. anyway, you have convinced me that key parts of this "voluntarism" ideology have a solid foundation. I won't say you have made Paul out of Saul, but yes, I feel I'm getting on the road to Damascus.

No, my example was what happened with Iraq. Remember Saddam Hussein? Our former friend Saddam? I only described his POV - as it was understood by many, then. So I do claim "we" never seriously exited the 18th century format - another reason why "we" desperately need new ideas and ideals.


another thought: a lot of politics is about (local) preferences. I understand this preference for private malls, private compounds, private security, private gated communities, private police, etc. But to be frank, I don't like it. For me, it robs a certain sense of community and shared space that is the hallmark of the "polis" and it's inhabitant, the citizen. As understood here. To spin this thought further, if the citizen of a city is not involved in having this "commonality" working properly, how can he even think to extend this influence on the province, the region, the state, the supra-national organizations? Yes, I know, this started with the abolition of the commons, in the UK. Again, I'm talking about societal preferences.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 08:20 | 2635274 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"But to be frank, I don't like it. For me, it robs a certain sense of community and shared space that is the hallmark of the "polis" and it's inhabitant, the citizen"

It's interesting to me that you perceive private (ie. locally organised; privately subscribed; individually chosen; located in the community; close at hand; controlled, staffed and priced by neighbours you will often pass in the street to whom you might pass on concerns) policing and provision of other services (eg. energy, transportation, banking, insurance, arbitration, medical care, welfare services) as being somehow "distant from the polis", while you defend the organisation, provision and supervision of all those necessities of life by some bureaucracy imposing a nationwide policy and staff transfers from thousands of miles away (whether in Brussels, DC, Ottawa, Canberra, Brasilia or Beijing) is somehow polis-friendly! I sense some cognitive dissonance causing a logic short-circuit!

Non capisco! Could you, perhaps, expand your reasoning a little to help me understand?

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 12:21 | 2636354 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

as you see, it's not entirely logic. If I stroll anywhere here, I find (sometimes badly, yes) functional public spaces, be them a harbour in Greece or a small village place in Portugal or a city like Hamburg. Common spaces with a sense of communality, which I share with pensioners, kids, etc. The Eastern European countries have that, too.

If I cross the channel, I already miss this sense - though the UK is still better than let's say the US. Private here, don't do this, don't do that, "the park is closed at night", and "please leave the premises if you are not going to shop". Not that it happens to me, but you get the sense. Where does the typical US youth congregate? in private shopping malls. And they lose any sense of "the common". For me, this is the epitome of this whole "NeoFeudalism" and "NeoSerfdom" business.


Strangely, I'm not alone in this, while trying to find examples with a quick search I did find that some define Neo Feudalism with this feeling of mine... Did not know that...

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 23:07 | 2638124 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"as you see, it's not entirely logic"

LOL ... there's no logic, at all, in any of your replies, Ghordie! And whenever we get to the heart of exposing that, you then change tack and just make shit up about how you feel!!

Such "feelings" are simply a product of home culture. I find it "amusing" that people take their dogs with them to dinner in the best restaurants in France (though not to have them cooked, as in China!), but find it entirely less amusing that I have to rent a space from a private operator to sit on the beach at St.Tropez!

Take the simple act of driving, for example. I attempt to avoid driving in France - because nobody obeys any of the speed limits or traffic rules! They're all fucking crazy!! The Italians are also crazy, but they do try not to hit you! The average speed on an autoroute is higher than that experienced on the unlimited autobahns in Germany (where I generally just sit in the outside lane at well over 200km/h and everyone politely gets out of my way as soon as they see me coming in their rearview mirror). Meanwhile, in England, the peasantry drive exactly on the speed limit and deliberately block anyone from overtaking them...something to do with queueing etiquette, I guess!

There is no cultural or political "Europe" ... no matter how hard you Luciferians wish to force it in order to [re]gain control ... only distinct and very pleasant cultures. It's just a name to recognisably describe a geographic land mass -- like "Asia", "Africa", "the Pacific".

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 04:59 | 2638495 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

well, freedom is about being able of doing what you want - and not being forced to do something you don't want

Want(ing), or better will, is a lot about what you like, and there logic has to acknowledge feelings, preferences and cultural influences.

it's exactly this tendency of applying too much logic that provokes the strangest and most laughable results in the EU.

And this is the whole trick. Political discourse, coupled with tolerance for other people's preferences, and a willingness to accomodate all, with a tendency to compromise.

If this position is luciferian (instead of centrist/liberal/mildly imperialist), then, by logic, the other would be radical, because the above promotes discourse, while the other sticks to "my way or the highway". Compromise against purity of ideology. The righteous applyier of the correct dogma scorns the dirty applyier of grey compromises. "Your Pelt is Grey, My Pelt is Pure White"? ;-)

The fact that there is no cultural unity in Europe is it's strenght. Particularly for defensive, gentle policies.

We know that socialist France contains a minority of people that want private beaches, so a small part of the beaches is private and the rest is public, with the funny law of anybody being allowed to walk near the surf of all beaches, public or private. It's a compromise. The Germans have a bloody culture war running on about this thing of "politely making space", including if using the headlights to "knock" should be considered a form of assault. This means we must consider and balance a multitude of factors, while containing several negative attitudes.

Nations can be, and often are, ruthless. (on this I think we agree)

Cultural streams can be, and often are, ruthless (culture wars).

Political parties can be, and often are, ruthless. (so they should be small and many)

Classes and socio-economic interests can be, and often are, ruthless.

Hell, even gender politics can be ruthless (see the northern europeans's new tack in sex laws).

The EU must be, and mostly is, gentler than that. And most of it is not gaining control, but sharing it. And the more diverse and strong the parts are, the more the whole is conscious of it and the less can the center arrogate unnecessary powers.

Paris, Berlin, Vienna, Madrid, Rome, etc. they all counterbalance each other and together they have a respectful daughter, not an arrogant, know-it-all mother, in Brussels. This is the compromise, and you know what? The "Luciferians" hate it. And you see here how many banksters are constantly trying to upset this balance.


The Romans recognized, tolerated and accepted every gens and tribe as a nation in itself, with it's own religion and customs. And every household as a state in itself (albeit a total dictatorship of the pater familias). And still, they had a res publica, a public, shared "commonstakehold". And this still is the base of a shared political and cultural preference, here.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 07:17 | 2638518 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"The Romans recognized, tolerated and accepted every gens and tribe ... with it's own religion and customs"


Indeed ... but ONLY during the expansionary phase of the First Republic. Then, having established dominance, other religions were systematically condemned until, in the 4th century, Roman Catholicism was declared the official state religion, to the exclusion of all others. Heretics and non-christians were excluded from public life.

We are seeing the same process unfolding today. The coming wars between the religions will eventually see a single "state religion" on a global scale, not just within Europe. Already, "non-Luciferians need not apply" for senior positions in the Politburo.

"see here how many banksters are constantly trying to upset this balance"

LOL ... your banksters are a dying breed, and I suspect that you well know it. There will be no banking and finance in the New World Order. The current series of exposés of the corruption and manipulation within banking, finance and regulators is the means to eliminate them. The public will cheer and the rulers will smirk! Hegel will be proud.

There will be no need for an IMF or BIS or FRB or ECB when there is just a single world electronic currency. No foreign exchange; no interest rate arbitrage; no private capital. Just centrally allocated 'credits' distributed as the central planners see fit to both individuals and projects. Agenda 21 meets finance...coming very soon!

"freedom ... preferences ... gentle ... compromise ... gentler ... sharing ... compromise"

I can only chuckle at the rest of your very clever prose definitely have a talent for politics! 

I particularly liked how you describe the EU structure as: "Political discourse, coupled with tolerance for other people's preferences, and a willingness to accomodate all, with a tendency to compromise". That kind of dissemblement takes a rare talent to carry off with a straight face! Who could argue against it? Indeed, I think both Lenin and Mao included similar words in their own constitutions!

If each nation state - or, dare I say it, community - were simply left alone to manage its own affairs, finances and culture, there would be no need for such platitudes to be bandied about to encourage them to join your central planning union!

BTW, one of my degrees included minors in politics and psychology -- which is why I turned to the world of international business to find some straight talking. Tschus!

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 06:50 | 2639936 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

nah, you can't call the early "imperial" christian church "roman catholic", it was the only christan church, period. all christian denominations derive from them, the bigoted destroyers of pagan temples and the gentile culture. the emperor was the pontifex maximus for all religions until the end, and most of the religious war was local. where the early christian were on the losing side, at the beginning, particularly because they did not accept the gentile view of limiting and keeping religion inside the own gens, by proselytizing universally.

re your prediction: "There will be no banking/finance in the NWO". because of one single world electronic currency? now I understand why you are so suspicious of the EUR, you perhaps see it as a "building block" - along the chinese-sponsored SDRs - to a cunning plan of having one world currency. So all my talk about protecting real economies and trade from FX shocks is, in your eyes, propaganda. Am I correct? You expect something like a "one empire to bind them all" scenario. I find this puzzling, to be frank. Got to think about it, because for me this implies that you see many current conflicts as fakes and misdirections.

I'm thankful, you have finally given me the the understanding I was looking for. I'd say if I had the same views, my pelt would be white, too. Hasta luego!

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:23 | 2634667 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

please...we're all ears...

do go on about how a spell of continental imperialism would have done the peeples of the Isles a world of good!

Either yur pulling our leg(s) here a la MDB, or yur dementia exceeds the bounds I could have heretofore even imagined!

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 06:11 | 2635007 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

LOL, you are really cute. I thought my last phrase was recognizable as humour. But since you ask: Napoleon (not only the man, also the times) did a service to the continent - beside wasting the life of millions, that is. It's his codex of laws. It gave us a useful uniformity (gasp!) in law and systems that is an useful bridge across the languages. Yes, we have a lot of entrenched statism, but we also have quite a handle on it, compared to other systems. A kind of immunity, or let's say we learned some lessons, including the fascist ones.

Sure, we had now nearly two centuries of glory and pride in all Anglo-American customs and laws (and three brands of AA imperialism).

But let me ask you one little thing: if "English Law" and AA-political systems are that superior, how is it that it's them that are affected by so much more corruption and discontent, and how is it that again it's an AA legal system that is incarcerating millions above the common levels? this time without deportation to the colonies?

I do hope you are a Brit or a Commonwealther, so that I can trash your oh-so-prejudiced worldview with more relish, in the next future. Let me make a prediction (I give it a +50% chance): the UK will find itself more at ease in the European Concert (yes, I'm pulling your leg with an 18th century term), in the next years. Boney did not cross the channel, but some goodies of his system will...

just one little thing: i-dog gave me reason to respect his views - even those I find preposterous. You? You give me the impression of being a whipper-snapper puppy.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 10:30 | 2636000 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

just as I thought I might be able to warm up to yur somewhat idiosyncratic viewpoint Ghordius, and perhaps even leave yu off of the list of Elvis-like von Rompuy imitators yu pull a cheap carrot and stick schtick out of yur pocket, of the kind that a Metternich or a Talleyrand might try to ply upon a Congress of beleaguered European statesman...

Resort to taunts will not work any majic for thee, anymore than they did for the conjurors of continental cabbalism who's restless spirits yu invoke, when confronted by Castlereagh and the Iron Duke. Like they, I neither seek yur favor nor care of yur scorn, for truth I have witnessed, since before yu were born!


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 12:17 | 2636480 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

LOL, you asked - quite inpolitely - for an explanation. To a joyful joke. I think I gave you one. A taunt works no magic on you? I beg to differ, here , watch this and tell me it works no magic on you!

Are you sure you can stomach a different point of view? And why do you mention this clown von Rompuy? Perhaps because of my avatar? Are you sure you don't have a quite cartoonish view of me and "my ilk"? It can happen, in the "Anglosphere".

Nevertheless, your statements above are intriguing, and puzzling. I would sincerily appreciate if you would explain a bit better - perhaps another time and space - what you mean by them. i-dog and I had quite a lot of discussions on the matter of secret societies and their relevancy.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 03:13 | 2627195 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Even by US citizen standards, it has to be low.

No regulation, no regulator. Why not?

But no regulator, no cronyism?

For the path you take to have semblance of reality, there should be no bid. A bid less society could claim to get rid of cronyism.

Not the point.

Free markets do not remove bids. And it does not remove by then the possibility to favour one bidder over another.

Another epic failure, as brought to you by US citizens.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 22:01 | 2630508 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I am not sure I fully understand your point. But as I see it you make an error and misinterpret what I say.

First, cronyism by definition or at least as used here is the use of government power to favor one business or industry over another. It is essentially a sort of bribery and protection racket run by the government.

My point is that without government power you cannot have cronyism. For example, let's say Merck lobbies Congress to prevent some new onerous regulations from the FDA. Conversely, they may want lots of expensive new regulation that they know smaller competitors cannot afford to force out small players and new players. They pay lots of money through lobbyists and campaign donations to get a regulatory favor. Why don't they do the same thing to the Peoria city council? It is because Peoria cannot do anything to Merck. There is no need for favor or protection. Therefore, there is no possibility of cronyism.

Second, I am not saying that companies themselves will not form favored relationships. In fact, this is done all the time for many many reasons, mostly positive. One might develop a great history with a supplier or provider of a service and keep them preferentially, even if more expensive. How many people become happy with a brand of car, appliance, electronics, etc, and keep purchasing the product without much competitive analysis? Almost all of us do it. However, this is not cronyism by most any definition, including the statist definition.

To understand, believe and support free markets takes a lot of reasoning. That is why it is rarely done.


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 06:15 | 2635129 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

First, cronyism by definition or at least as used here is the use of government power to favor one business or industry over another.


Ah, yes, if you define cronyism as being the way a government influences the selection in a bidding process, indeed, you will end by finding only acts of influence performed by the government.

Woooo, even Wikipedia does not define cronyism the way you do.

Why not expand to progress toward a US citizen perfect society?

In the same way, you could define murders as murders being committed by the government, robberies as robberies committed by the government, rapes as rapes committed by the government.

By getting rid of the government, you will get rid of murders, robberies, rapes etc

A murder less, robbery less, rape less society. What a dream.

Redefining to suit a preset conclusion, how US citizen it is.

Want a free society of human beings? Simple redefine slaves as non human beings.

Want a full employed society? Simple, redefine full employment.

What a non crony society? Simple, redefine cronyism etc

US citizens have deep troubles with reality and they need to manipulate in order to keep pretending.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 08:42 | 2635418 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The hypocritical nature of AnAnonymous is eternal:

Want a free society of human beings? Simple redefine slaves as non human beings.

You prefer half free society? Chinese citizenism to the rescue, since it defines slaves as "half-man, half-thing".

Just how you like it.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 07:19 | 2627288 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture


"Free markets eliminate cronyism completely"


You forgot the (sarc) tag.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:44 | 2634715 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

On a long enough timeline, even Max Fischer will make some sense!

Hard as it is to say that yu are correct Maxie....

yu are korrect! Kapitalism and Kronyism will always Korrespond, because the first is the invention of Kosher Kriminals from Khazaria, and the second is the same Klan's klassic mode of operation...hang together in a secret Kabal to defraud the goyish dupes who have bought into their outrageous notion of 'free market' Kapitalism...

allow it to be shouted from the rooftops here, and hung out in a giant black banner of truth tellin testimony....

the Konstruct of "Kapitalism" is a phony paradigm of kriminal design...the free men of the west have been inveigled into giving up their birthright of entrepenuerial spirit and ability to associate in trade as a graceful and free collective of individuals in exchange for nothing more than the chains of a kartal-directed shell game in which the moneychangers are licensed by the state to defraud the goyish masses and in turn the state is supplied with stolen funds to enforce the dictates of this Khazarian dictatorship of divide n konquer racial hegemonists...

peeples of the west...throw off yur chains and reclaim yur eliminating the false paradox of kapitalism\kommunist khazarian krap from yur lives! Eliminate the State and it's Kapitalist Owners!

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:15 | 2626314 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Is this the same "Max" that used to troll the Reason H&R boards?

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 03:13 | 2627196 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Post-lapsarian man = no difference between capitalism and cronyism

Cronyism is full part of US citizen economics.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 03:31 | 2627211 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous - the Old Faithful of shit geysers

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 12:23 | 2628519 akak
akak's picture

AnAnonymous - The Grand Canyon of intellectual vacuity, and the Eiffel Tower of hypocritical psychological projection of his own nation's faults and crimes onto others.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:08 | 2626121 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Impeach Obama Soetoro Davis--that man in the oval office whoever he is. Arrest Hillary, Holder and all exploitive warmongers. Our truth is marching on. Glory Glory Hells a comin to ya Glory Glory....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:10 | 2626131 TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

"It's not because we have bad people in office"?

I disagree.


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:11 | 2626136 bonddude
bonddude's picture

Here's the ultimate crony capitalist out to dinner. I hate Pelosi.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:44 | 2626235 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

She always spoke well of U ....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:38 | 2626644 Jason_1sandal
Jason_1sandal's picture

Reading that article was about the dumbest waste of three minutes ever.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:12 | 2626140 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The socialization of private losses, mis-allocation and mal-investment of capital and resources continues.

Will continue, until supply lines break, then war.  Somethings never change.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:45 | 2626236 centerline
centerline's picture

Human nature meets mathematics.  Happens every time.  The trick is eventually break the cycle.  Explains why there may not be many advanced civilizians out there in space that are capable of interstellar travel...  they didn't outlive thier adolesence.  Understandable outcome from our vantage point.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:19 | 2626153 Racer
Racer's picture

The ordinary person can be fined for dropping a tiny amount of  litter on the street because it is against the law... fined approx £50 or if you protest and don't pay because you didn't know it was against the law and go to court, get fined approx £350 instead (based on facts in UK court case)

the banksters can cheat and lie for years (and know full well it is against the law), none go to court, and the penalties are a tiny amount of the profits they make because they cheated

Yes one law for the easy target slap them in jail if they don't comply individual,

Minute wrist slap that will be paid for out of mega profits for the sadistic corporations and especially the robbing banksters


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:23 | 2626164 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Hey, the supreme court has said "corprations are people", ergo people can now be considered corporations.  Henceforth, I will maintain "limited liability" for the consequences of all my actions, fucking awesome.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:06 | 2626535 malikai
malikai's picture

I just can't figure this one out, maybe you can help me.

How do corporations hang from lamp posts?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 22:20 | 2626726 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Interesting isn't it?

A person didn't conduct the interview for hire...a building The unions and the New York Times itself aren't people either by the way...its a dive off into the

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 05:12 | 2627290 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture


"How do corporations hang from lamp posts?"


You use a nail gun to attach their corporate charter to the appropriate CEO/Bankster's chest, and then let him/her swing from the lamp post.


easy peasy...

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 03:17 | 2627199 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Hey, the supreme court has said "corprations are people", ergo people can now be considered corporations. Henceforth, I will maintain "limited liability" for the consequences of all my actions, fucking awesome.

US citizens entangled in their own conceptions, as given by US citizenism.

The lapse in logics US citizens are ready to accomplish their purpose is always stunning, even when used to deal with US citizens.

Parrots are birds. Therefore birds can be considered parrots.

As brought to you by US citizenism, that has destroyed the mental process called thought.

And every US citizens know it is before all low IQ people that were forcefully introduced on US citizen populations by whim and desire of elite, city of london etc

It has nothing to do with US citizenism, no, no,no...

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 03:43 | 2627224 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous, spouting more drivel:

US citizens entangled in their own conceptions, as given by US citizenism.

AnAnonymous, entangled in his own insanitation, as given by Chinese citizenism.

Parrots are birds. Therefore birds can be considered parrots.

Therefore AnAnonymous can be considered bird brain.

As brought to you by US citizenism, that has destroyed the mental process called thought.

As brought to AnAnonymous by Chinese citizenism, that has created the mental infirmity called opiation.

An every Chinese citizenism citizen knows AnAnonymous is below all low IQ people that drool on themselves and poop their pants.

It has everything to do with Chinese citizenism and its eternal hypocritical nature, yes,yes, yes...

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:26 | 2626176 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

Its KINGS Law you are the serf Rothschilds are the owners (Kings) because the buck stops (all of them) and starts (money from nothing) with the kING OF kings. WE, the country formally known as the USA and the UK and the EUROZONE and whatever else they control are all just COLONIES of a private enterprise. Governments are bought and paid for. Until this ends everything else is BULLSHIT.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:18 | 2626324 knukles
knukles's picture

By jove, he's got it!

Nobody fucks with the City of

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:40 | 2626490 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

You should have taken the "blue pill'.

Your preaching to the choir here.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:23 | 2626158 Euro Monster
Euro Monster's picture

Money rules the world. Where there is money, there is corruption. And you know where corruption leads to...

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:19 | 2626325 knukles
knukles's picture

It leads to the purchase of the law givers.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 05:01 | 2627285 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Increased personal wealth for me and my fellow bankers?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:26 | 2626174 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture


Who could have guessed the boot licking statist shill Max is first to post. God forbid anyone criticize the supremacy of the state. Like clockwork the useful idiots come swarming out of the woodwork. It’s almost like they are paid. Max you are missing your calling you should be working for the TSA so you can fondle your way up the bureaucracy, who knows maybe one day you could become the camp commandant.  


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:08 | 2626296 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I would have expected letThemEatrand to be the first one all over this post.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:33 | 2626347 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...dammit, more regulation is required!

If we need additional regulators to regulate the corrupt regulators who were hired to regulate the original corrupt regulators...then so be it!!!...the public sector is being crushed without the addition of new law & regulation!

There's a ponzified pecking order involved here that must be perpetuated at ANY cost!!!

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:41 | 2626496 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

We just need to create a regulation inspired ponzi until maximum employment is achieved.

Those who find themselves unemployed because of over regulation, can thus immediately be reemployed at a higher wage bracket regulating the regulators that over regulated them in the first place.

Thus we kill two birds with one stone, unemployment is permanently solved, and the public will forget about those pesky deficits because new regulators will "take care of it".

Basically we just need to give regulation a fair chance to solve all our problems...

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 02:22 | 2627146 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

There are so many departments and regulators and their police forces to track that I think we need a new department: The Department of Evil Ass Departments to correct and regulate regulators and their departments. DEAD will put an end to government corruption...a DEAD end.

This department should immediately be deficit financed and thousands of new regulators hired at not more than triple private sector wages and benefits.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:24 | 2626332 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

And who could have guessed that an entire community of right-wing, libertarian block heads would miss the point of my post?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:57 | 2626392 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

I didn't realize there was a point. I thought it was some kind of platitude analagous to this:

"Some portion of human beings commit murder. Therefore, humanity = murder".


Wed, 07/18/2012 - 03:24 | 2627206 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

I didn't realize there was a point. I thought it was some kind of platitude analagous to this:

"Some portion of human beings commit murder. Therefore, humanity = murder".

Ah back to one of US citizen classics, hijacking of humanity.

See how it is natural for US citizens to cover their back by claiming humanity ground, by diluting their own responsibility.

The initial comment was something like that: capitalism=cronyism.

And it is well known, especially by US citizen perceptions, that not all humanity is capitalistic.

So see the jump here

from some portion of human beings murder people, therefore that portion of humanity= murder

you've got the jump from a portion of humanity to the whole humanity, usual US citizen business.

See how US citizens rationalize their own actions and shift responsibility by use of an exterior.

The story of US citizenism.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 04:15 | 2627245 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Shhh, the people at ZH profit financially from the lack of regulation in capitalism.

The paid shrills get worse day byday, first they let aziz post OPED's and then cross sell you a post from the von mises institute.

At least WB7 and Reggie are amusing to read.

Stick to finance not morality, ZH has no morality, money rules all at ZH, money is the marker which ZH'ers use to define their status and success in life, if you say money is not all that matters you demean and debase their own inflated sense of self importance.

The only thing of value in a capitalist sytem is money, to a capitalist morality, honesty, honor, family and friendship are simply human weaknesses to be abused and corrupted by money.

ZH'ers worship money as the only thing of value to them.

In short ZH - all mouth and no trousers.

But its funny to see such immature, isolated, paranoid, chickens running around with their heads cutoff.

Nearly the entire readership appears to be reacting to life as it happens to them rather than imposing their will on their own life and the world around them, while pining for the golden age of gold guns and gandalf.

You know the USA is proper fucked when even anon has a point.

aMERICAN cITIZENS got corrupted by wealth, whether its the guy with a snap card or the koch with a fortune, when all other values are bad and only the accumulation of wealth is good then society is corrupt.



Wed, 07/18/2012 - 05:25 | 2627306 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



+1 ...nice rant!


We've(Americans) have been converted to the Babylon Bankster's God, which is Mammon.


On Invoking God to Defend Mammon
Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:16 | 2626432 Colonel
Colonel's picture

The same way you keep missing government's role despite all the leftist D-bags you keep worshipping and electing. More change you can believe in right?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:34 | 2626477 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Max ~ perhaps you need a real life example to understand...


CAPITALISM is when your wife is fucking your pool boy because she's pretending not to have any money

CRONYISM is the pool boy only sharing her with his bestest buddies

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 00:12 | 2626991 Lohn Jocke
Lohn Jocke's picture

You seem to have a point... On your head.


I would also venture a guess that you haven't spent much time in Russia or other FSU countries for that matter.

But what do I know... I'm just a Libertarian who must know someone high up.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 03:27 | 2627207 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

And who could have guessed that an entire community of right-wing, libertarian block heads would miss the point of my post?

US citizens did not miss the point. They have nothing to answer to it.

US citizens live on a fabled past. The mention that US citizen economics has included cronyism as an essential part from the start is useless to US citizens.

US citizens do not disagree with cronyims, they have thrived on it. They disagree with not being the recipients of cronyism.

That is the point.

Dont expect US citizens to be able to discuss US citizens from within: US citizenism forces the use of an exterior, real or fantasical to justify itself.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 12:18 | 2628504 akak
akak's picture

Don't expect Chinese Citizenism citizens to be able to discuss Chinese Citizenism from within, without hypocrisy or critical self-reflection: Chinese Citizenism forces the use of an exterior, real or fantasical (such as myths like 'US Citizenism') to justify itself.  That is, when it is not forcing the use of an exposed roadside posterior.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 13:17 | 2628825 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The cronyims are monolizing the speeching means with talkation of numerously.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:50 | 2626498 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Doubt it.Doctrinaire idiots are always the first to be disposed of.

He will be one of the first into the 'showers' at a local FEMA camp.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:29 | 2626184 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Republican tax cuts have been in place for 11 year. Where are the US jobs? Makes it kinda tough to get Mitt RoMONEY elected, even without his Bain BS in sending US jobs offshore. Anyone colluding to send US jobs offshore should be tied onto the back of an elephant, or Rush Limbaugh. Now there's change I can believe it. And if Republicans don't nominate RoMONEY, what other clown will they find?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:01 | 2626273 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Who is Frank Marshall Davis?

found this in that crazy right wing publication (Investors Business Daily).

Tends to explain alot doesn't it.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 05:44 | 2627319 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



Mentor my ass, I think that's Obama's real daddy...



Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:11 | 2626303 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Republican tax cuts have been in place for 11 year."

Ummm, O'Barry extended them ALL after they got their ass kicked in 2010. His words were something like...if we raise taxes now we'll kill the economy.

"Anyone colluding to send US jobs offshore..."

You mean like making solar panels in Mexico or windmills in Europe?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:11 | 2626579 msjimmied
msjimmied's picture

During the debt ceiling debates, the republicans, the best cronies the cronies can have, made the tax cuts the sticking point. Millions on unemployment gets it,  if the democrats did not extend the tax breaks. Lets keep the facts straight. I cannot understand the serf mentality of the not rich repubs, I can understand why the rich wants it all, but it's the ones who follow hoping...what exactly? I kind of like this description of what the party has degenerated into.

"The GOP has no moderate faction anymore. It's a rump amalgamation of plutocrats and the people who service their air conditioning." 

Maybe one day they will reward all who banged their drums for them, maybe...

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:22 | 2626446 jcmjr
jcmjr's picture

Go troll another blog you idiot!

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 00:33 | 2627028 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Anyone who believes that there is really a difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is a fool. Both have paved the way for offshoring US jobs.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:46 | 2626201 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture



Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country.


When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank.


You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin!


You are a den of vipers and thieves.



— Andrew Jackson (7th US President, when forcing the closure of the Second Bank of the US in 1836 by revoking its charter)



SSDD.  Once the cabal came back as The Federal Reserve 'Bank' in 1910 (not announced or officially acknowledge until 1913), they went to the very same playbook. Print fiat, distribute it to the best friends forever of the New York Fed, let these friends speculate (in the most reckless and extraordinary ways imaginable, mega-leveraged) with the fiatski, and in many markets that drive consumer prices higher not via true supply/demand but via pure speculation detached from any economic fundamentals (thus taxing the real economy in just one of their many behaviors inducing parasitic economic drain), and know that if you lose your bet, if you're a friend of the NYFRB, you will most likely be bailed out and even rewarded.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:48 | 2626247 centerline
centerline's picture

Same spin on the same game played throughout centuries.  The game changer IMO is the internet so many ways.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:37 | 2626214 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture

we seem programed...more please...Dickens deconstructed.    liberate your funds, quickly enshrine them in a  golden, silver, copper field.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:44 | 2626234 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

all you have to do is look at the ROI difference between R&D and lobbying - its not even close.  its a hell of lot harder to build a better mousetrap, and constantly innovate or die, than it is get a Mousetrap Stability Act introduced, a Mousetrap Import/Export Bank created, onerous mousetrap licensing requirements and compliance costs, and a Mousetrap Subsidy Bill.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:54 | 2626260 centerline
centerline's picture

Lobbying has no real downside.  They get paid, win or lose.  Even to get common sense shit just in front of state or national legislators these days it requires a lobbyist.  Pay to play, regardless of outcome.  Sure sign of a empire in decline.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:52 | 2626255 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

George Zimmerman is a "demonstration subject" for government power.

 A state smear job agaisnt an individual for PRIVATE political purposes (Gun Control), and perhaps pray Obama, a "racial incident".

Zimmerman's an "example" of what "the state" can do to you-or anybody, even if you're an inconsequential nobody.

On the flipside we have powerful obviously guilty criminals like John Corzine and LA County Assessor John Noguez walking the streets scott free, and a President with a "classified" resume and credentials.    

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:00 | 2626271 centerline
centerline's picture

They fucked up and dont know how to get out of it without creating a race war - or at least another South Central LA event.

The Zimmerman story really is something to watch in terms of government power.  They know it too.  Expect anything serious to be buried until after elections though.


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:57 | 2626393 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

Unless he's guilty, and through his own actions provides evidence and motive to hang himself.  Yup that be the governments fault!!!

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 00:38 | 2627036 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Agenda driven politics are far more important than (true) justice, right?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 18:53 | 2626257 Elliott Eldrich
Elliott Eldrich's picture

Every time someone tries to defend Communism, it always comes down to "yes, it failed, but only because it was corrupted. If only it hadn't succumed to (Stalinism, Maoism et. al.) then it would have succeeded." And then everyone jumps all over them, calls them names, and concludes the poor slob who made the post is an idiot or a tool.

Yet when Capitalism falls apart into yet another stinking pile of corruption and cronyism, resulting in a massive economic disaster that bankrupts millions, its defenders leap up and say "Yes, but if only it hadn't succumed to (cronyism, corporatism et. al.) then it would have succeeded." And then everyone quietly nods and agrees, "yes, if only..."

Compare, contrast, discuss...

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:06 | 2626287 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

It wasn't that, it was because we abandoned our constitutional republic.

It started with the Act of 1871


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:17 | 2626319 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Look just take your marxist views to some other country. Millions of people died under those socialist and their is no defense of those despots. Corruption can be cleaned up with a change at the top in our country. The cronyism you see is in the US now is a blight on the Obama administration. You may have disagreed with other administrations but you never saw this level of cronyism. The justice department run by Holder needs a makeover and it will happen soon enough.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:33 | 2626354 Elliott Eldrich
Elliott Eldrich's picture

My Marxist views? Really? That's the best you can do? Wow...

Re-read my original comment. I'm simply pointing out something that I think is noteworthy, and for that I get multiple down votes and abuse. Nice.

Say, I know of a Libertarian paradise that everyone could move to, today. There's no government, no regulations, no heavy hand of authority of any kind pressing down to oppress the marvelous engines of enterprise and opportunity, no pesky laws of any kind. It's called Somalia.

What, you mean Somalia isn't paradise? But, but... how? How could this be? Jeez.... tell me about the rabbits, George...

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 19:48 | 2626372 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

shut up and read some history.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:13 | 2626584 Elliott Eldrich
Elliott Eldrich's picture

You are barking up the wrong tree, I've done quite a bit of reading about history, all kinds of history. In fact, history is a bit of a hobby of mine. Please don't think someone is ignorant or stupid simply because they disagree with you, it may just be that they have been exposed to some information that you have yet to experience, or lived through events that have given them perspective that you have yet to acquire. 

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:30 | 2626627 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

I suppose I should not discount ignorance.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 23:38 | 2626884 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I don't think you are ignorant or stupid. I think you have inherited the morality of the hunter-gatherers and there is no way for your brain to overcome that.

You are trapped in a culture that developed over the last couple million years and still exists on earth.



Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:18 | 2626435 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Re-read my original comment."

No need're not among boys here...where did the members of the Politburo live? On tenement row with the riff raff or out in the countryside by a lake? And the oriental version...where do they live? Where do they shop & eat?...walking in the mud with the masses in an open market?

You're clinging to a dream that can never be...self interest will always rule the day...self interest combined with unlimited power goes to despotism...and corrupt law is how they get there.

And these preppy little Ivy League fucks are no different.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:24 | 2626454 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Sheesh, is that Somalia canard the best you Liberty hating anti-libertarians have got?  Absolute idiot.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:48 | 2626501 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

They keep throwing Somalia around as a country and they have no clue what they are talking about. Maybe they should do just a little bit of fact checking. But facts always get in the way of propaganda.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:00 | 2626547 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Lots of hot air from you on the subject... but why TF aren't you already on the plane? It's right there waiting for you - unless the loss of your cable TV and Mom cooking 3 squares/day for you is too much to give up...

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:08 | 2626570 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

As usual your monumental ignorance is out in the open for the world to see.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:15 | 2626591 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Yet you're unable to enlighten us?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 23:43 | 2626900 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

About what? The fact that Somalia is just another country the US is fucking over.

If you don't know that, you're an idiot.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 03:29 | 2627209 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

If so, it is a product of US citizenism, the very same that US citizens want to promote, maintain and spread around the world, so what?

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 23:47 | 2628480 akak
akak's picture

Tibetan oppression and colonization by Han Chinese, and 60+ years of warmongering threats toward the utterly peaceful indepedent Republic of Taiwan by the Communist Chinese, is a product of Chinese Citizenism, the blobbing-up scourge of the earth.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:08 | 2626567 Elliott Eldrich
Elliott Eldrich's picture

"Maybe they should do just a little bit of fact checking. But facts always get in the way of propaganda."

Ok, please, pray tell... enlighten me as to what facts I am missing about Somalia. I anxiously await your wisdom on this matter. Please explain to me why Somalia is such a wonderful place.

By the way, for the record, I'm not defending Marxism or Communism. In fact, I think both stink on ice. I just started out by noting an interesting pattern of behavior among people when discussing certain things. 

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:24 | 2626609 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I never said it was a paradise. You refere to it a place with no government and that is a false statement. Somalia has no real central government , but there are different territories in Somalia that are controlled (governed ) by different factions. Just because the central government has no power doesn't mean that it is a country absent of government.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 04:49 | 2627277 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Explain to me why if usa had no govt it would NOT become somalia, you're a smart guy and im not too daft , use words of less than four syllables if it helps.

Fantasy longing by a dispossessed minority for a golden age when your nation was the 'best in the world' is not limited to 'US Citizenism'

Everybody has it, its the BNP in the uk, LE pen in france, golden dawn in greace, Sturmfront in germany. etc etc


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:48 | 2626662 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Somalia? lol  as an example of what?  jihad? What kind of fool uses Somalia as an example for free market capitalism or a democratic republic? Your premise is simply ignorant. I feel stupid for even responding to this Elliot.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 20:43 | 2626502 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The marxist (slash) progressive mind is linear...they see a libertarian saying less is what a marxist dearly loves (government, which is control of all)...and they go immediately to, you're an anarchist.

This is from the same people who want everyone to consume less of

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 21:09 | 2626562 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>they go immediately to, you're an anarchist.

What's wrong with anarchism?

Don't fall for argumentum ad temperantiam.

 >This is from the same people who want everyone to consume less of

That is an easy goal for communists to achieve:

"During the famine, which is also known as the "terror-famine in Ukraine" and "famine-genocide in Ukraine",[2][3][4] millions of Ukrainians died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine."

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