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Case Closed: CME Hikes Gold, Silver, Copper Margins
And there you have it: CME just hiked gold margins by 21%, silver by 16% and copper by 18%. Mystery solved.
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Preposterous.
Oh, wait, actually applying some empathy it makes quite a lof of sense.
oh for fuck's sake... What a rough week for us pm longs.
Is there some way to determine who the big liquidators were today? It would be interesting to see who's getting insider information from the CME.
Give that Idiot a silver cigar!
Laugh a 20% hike across the board. I wonder how many times they can pull that bullshit off? SPOILER ALERT: maybe twice more then game fucking over.
need to kill OBL one more time or will Khadaffy do?
Tyler(s) should always list the absolute margin in addition to the hikes, so we can watch the slow progress towards parity(no margin).
+1 chart.
The banks are desperate, God forbid the canary in the coal mine dies and lets everyone know they are screwed in fiat gas. What's next? The kitchen sink?
For Gold
============
700 rising to 850 to carry 16,500ish, still aint nothing for margin. They have many MANY 20% raises left to use...
that's still almost 20:1 leverage to carry
========
Silver is
18,500 to carry around 155,000
more on the order of 8:1 leverage to carry
That came out like bits and bytes from the matrix. Heres the link
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/09/24/factbox-precious-silver-idUKS1E78M21A20110924?feedType=RSS&feedName=governmentFilingsNews
Following are the percentage changes in the COMEX 5000
silver futures (Tier 1) maintenance margins since 2009 (in U.S.
dollars per contract).
EFFECTIVE DATE INITIAL MAINTENANCE PERCENTAGE
CHANGE
26 Sep 2011 $24,975 $18,500 15.6
09 May 2011 $21,600 $16,000 14.3
05 May 2011 $18,900 $14,000 16.7
03 May 2011 $16,200 $12,000 11.6
29 April 2011 $14,513 $10,750 13.2
26 April 2011 $12,825 $9,500 9.2
25 March 2011 $11,745 $8,700 5.5
21 Jan. 2011 $11,138 $8,250 6.5
17 Dec. 2010 $10,463 $7,750 6.9
16 Nov. 2010 $9,788 $7,250 11.5
11 Nov. 2010 $8,775 $6,500 30.0
01 Oct. 2010 $6,750 $5,000 0.0
07 June 2010 $6,750 $5,000 17.7
30 April 2010 $5,738 $4,250 -15.0
02 March 2010 $6,750 $5,000 0.0
12 Feb. 2010 $6,750 $5,000 11.1
15 Dec. 2009 $6,075 $4,500 12.5
21 Aug. 2009 $5,400 $4,000 -33.3
26 June 2009 $8,100 $6,000 -14.3
28 May 2009 $9,450 $7,000 16.7
22 Jan. 2009 $8,100 $6,000 -6.3
08 Jan. 2009 $8,640 $6,400 --
EFFECTIVEDATE INITIAL MAINTENANCE ABSOLUTE MARGIN(Initial) ABSOLUTEMARGIN(Maintenance)
26/09/11 $24,975.00 $18,500.00 16.15% 11.96%
09/05/11 $21,600.00 $16,000.00 13.97% 10.35%
05/05/11 $18,900.00 $14,000.00 12.22% 9.05%
03/05/11 $16,200.00 $12,000.00 10.48% 7.76%
29/04/11 $14,513.00 $10,750.00 9.38% 6.95%
26/04/11 $12,825.00 $9,500.00 8.29% 6.14%
25/03/11 $11,745.00 $8,700.00 7.59% 5.63%
21/01/11 $11,138.00 $8,250.00 7.20% 5.33%
17/12/10 $10,463.00 $7,750.00 6.77% 5.01%
16/11/10 $9,788.00 $7,250.00 6.33% 4.69%
11/11/10 $8,775.00 $6,500.00 5.67% 4.20%
01/10/10 $6,750.00 $5,000.00 4.36% 3.23%
07/06/10 $6,750.00 $5,000.00 4.36% 3.23%
30/04/10 $5,738.00 $4,250.00 3.71% 2.75%
02/03/10 $6,750.00 $5,000.00 4.36% 3.23%
12/02/10 $6,750.00 $5,000.00 4.36% 3.23%
15/12/09 $6,075.00 $4,500.00 3.93% 2.91%
21/08/09 $5,400.00 $4,000.00 3.49% 2.59%
26/06/09 $8,100.00 $6,000.00 5.24% 3.88%
28/05/09 $9,450.00 $7,000.00 6.11% 4.53%
22/01/09 $8,100.00 $6,000.00 5.24% 3.88%
08/01/09 $8,640.00 $6,400.00 5.59% 4.14%
added it with the absolute margins, using a current price of silver in USD of 30.93....
Divide the percentage by 100 to get the leverage ratios i mentioned before....
Gold Silver started to tank full 2 days ago since 9/21.
Who got to front run this?
Where is the source of the rumor?
Some trader is making a killing with insider knowledge.
http://www.buytherumorsellthefact.com/2011/09/19/the-whistleblower%E2%80...
"Some trader is making a killing with insider knowledge."
I'm shocked, shocked to hear that traders make killings with inside info.
Rumor has it Blythe just put a down payment on a new yacht.
Good thing GLD did the vault fiasco to make sure the smash had a nice whipped credibility topping.
Exactly - which is why this "Strategy" will inevitably fail. The CME is making it so there is no more leverage - so why not just buy the physical outright - rather than paying parity to get paper? When the people wake up to that fact - they will demand the physical - which will be a real problem because there isn't any -- or at the very least - there is not nearly as much physical as there is paper.
I'm starting to think they will start charging a premium when they can't hike anymore.
Ah...to get the real stuff..."they" already are charging a premium. AND the (paper) oz.'s of SLV are falling further and further away from the spot on phys. I feel like a sub commander who keeps raising the periscope and seeing the target on a converging line with the spread of torpedos I just fired. Again, CME (and friends): keep up the good work!
No. Regulators are too busy conducting important research on the mating habits of midgets and fist f@%&ing.
It's the CME board members. Probably the same people who blew up the Hunt brothers.
Bravo.
I must say that the stealth bull market was more fun. You all of a sudden find the speculators in the pool, they start defecating, and next thing they have to charge the pool with big boluses of chorine. My leasurely swim got taken over by the Marco Polo crowd. Hike the margin requirements some more and get the specs outta my pool.
It's no big deal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmMFaVzbzc
You mean the specs of poop in the pool?
@ silver shield
Great post - thanks.
I've got 38 calls for Nov... Think that the Bernank will print about a month before then?
(And just so you know I bought those around Feb. and was pretty new to pm investing. I've since bought several 10oz bars and a couple of 100oz. I'm looking to add to my collection, but was wondering if anyone could recommend silver or gold accumulation since I already have about 300oz of silver in various forms)
I've got calls for 41 43 and 45. I think we are both hosed here I think.
But after this let me tell you this market is fucking bullshit.
I still am a firm believer that the price of silver will be upwards of $50oz by jan 1, but after this blow I will NEVER trade the paper again.
I'm through with this bullshit market. It seems like even when I play the fundamentals, I lose the house money and barely manage to get out with my own skin. It's put me through some sleepless nights, as I have a 9-5 job and try to do this on the side. I am about a year our from University, and I have to tell you that I am ready for the coming collapse. This system is rigged to the point where the average everyday person knows it.
Sustainable and self-sufficient neighborhoods and towns IS the future. Fuck all this petty bullshit around us. I'm tired of walking to work and hearing marketer's wet-dream people talking about buying this fucking thing or that. I'm tired of people not understanding that they are getting hosed. I actually had a co-worker tell me that he wants a government job because they make so much, and when I tried to tell him that if everyone did this, you may make $50,000 a year, but your purchasing power would drastically shrink. He said "but I'd make more money though". This kid went to college for fuck's sake.
This whole culture is a fucking joke, and I say good riddance to it. People need to start actually living, and not acting like fucking pathetic children. When I walk down the street, I can't tell you how many people I see that just have hopelessness and scaredness in their eyes. This is not what our past generations had fought for! I am called non-American because I want us to be humble and value the TRUE American dream, that everyone is entitled to THEIR verision of success. You have to WORK for it though, and it will not be given to you, and nobody else should be able to tell you if it's right or not. That's irrelavant. It's YOUR DREAM! IT'S YOUR LIFE! DON'T BE A FUCKING MATERIALISTIC ZOMBIE! LIVE, AND BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. If you fail, so be it. Simply move on and redefine the dream. Life is a journey, and it's not always comforable. If your life is comfortable or easy, and has been your whole life, then you're not challenging yourself. You are the GREATEST thing this world has ever made, so find and embrace who you are. Challenge yourself constantly so you can find out who you really are!
Sorry for the rant, but what is happening in this country is dispicable.
You are right on, but the biggest practical problem with the "american dream" is that... people need to actually produce something --- something real, something physical. While that should be "no problem", most people today are utterly unprepared to produce anything real. Poke keys? Sure. Push paper? Sure. Actually produce something real? Forget about it! And most people know this, which is why they are so depressed and so hopeless. They've been screwed by the schools, colleges and everything else "official", and they didn't bother to "get real" on their own initiative. The fact is, it is "game over" for human beings, because they bought into all the lies and soundbites the predators-that-be and predator-class handed them.
.
Future historians will write that America packing its factories and transferring its know how off to Asia in the 80's, 90s and 00's was the biggest strategic blunder in the nation's history.
Free trade without free x-rates is a perversion and a path to disaster
Last time I checked, the almonds, pistachios and walnuts are getting ready for harvest. The fruits and vegetables are well into the canning stages. The dairy cattle have their next years forage being tucked away while their milk and cheese has only been increasing.(Oh yeah, and the grapes are about ready too) Life continues to be good in the important areas here in the central valley in CA.
Sure we have some ding bats in gov't still wanting to fool around with H2O, but events like this just show the importance of these basics in lieu of Mcmansion construction, fraudulent education "opportunities" and other worthless pursuits, including obstructionist regulatory personnel.
Money changers will continue their deviant activities as that's what they do. Capitalizing on the poor, ignorant and weak members of society is their stock and trade. For the rest, the admonition to seek justice and love mercy will bring greater satisfaction for our 70-80 orbits.
imo.
Nice to see another central valley-an on the board. You in Modesto? Fresno? I used to live on some Blue Diamond acreage near Merced.
MUHAHHAHAHA! If you take a step back from the carnage and contemplate the scale of this blatant manipulation you can tell someone big is scared shitless of a price ramp up at this point. My bet is well above $50. by end of year. But as Faber and Rogers say "If you can't handle a 30% down move on your holdings... " well you know.
Did anyone on this blog just go out and buy gold/silver without resercing it first , of course not , so therefor you knew it was rigged before you got into it so whats the problem . On another note . In the wizard of oz the only wepon Dorothy had were her ruby sippers (in the original book they were silver but changed to ruby for Technocolour new movies) which if you have ever seen the original story behind it ( Bankers, TIN men Tax identification number, gold paved roads etc ) you will know that her silver slippers brought the bankers down . So sit back have a smoke and a drink because if you have stacked life is GOOD
Uh, do you recommend we play dark side of the moon at the same time?
I'm alright, Jack, keep your hands off of my stack
good for you,,,, remember gold and silver are not means of making money they are a safe storage of ones labor, eventhough the manipulation continues. the margins stuff will continue to be less and less meaningfull, but not by if you look at todays reaction but the 6850 intiall and 5000 maint is getting squeezed. what will the margin mean when intiall is at 7000 and main is 6950? not much. and they cant go any higher because pan asian comex is coming and the competition will fuckem
+ a big number, FnT. Well said.
PLENTY OF PEOPLE OUT THERE tellin you NOT TO PLAY WITH PAPER......IT'S ALWAYS BEEN FUCKING RIGGED!!! "LBMA"....ANYTHING with "LONDON" in its title is a fucking SCAM!!!! You have to know this! Bob Chapman, MAx Kaiser, GATA, etc. etc. Where the fuck have you people been for the last 5 years plus??? These guys are Wall Street vets and HONEST. They have spelled out the manipulation in such detail that a second grade kid can figure it out. Take physical possession or get fucked. Period.
ANYTHING with "LONDON" in its title is a fucking SCAM!!!!
That's so funny I'm crying.
You are not alone. There are many with your sentiments. Just keep the faith.
My degree in economics was in 1961 and one of the fundamental theories is that for a society to succeed for an extended length of time is that what you earn has to have a relationship to what you produce. That theory was violated long ago and has mostly been forgotten but it is coming back loud and clear. The parasites of society have become too much of a burden for us to survive.
Just remember. EVERYONE who has been invested in PHYSICAL ONLY has done just fine... better than fine. And guess what? We love this short-term take-down, because we can convert whatever fiat we accumulated recently into physical at a great price.
Give up on margin! In one sense, those of us who accumulate physical appreciate the crowd who buy on margin, because you let (actually, beg) the predators at the big banks and regulators to screw you AND give us great buying opportunities.
Get real. Get smart. Get physical.
But with that said Honestann, if I were a paper trader, I would be pissed to homicidal levels. This is at least the second time they have raised margins within a week of options expiration, changing the rules mid-game and saving the commercial shorts billions. The god damn leaks piss the shit out of me too. But in a nation of unenforced laws, anything goes...
Oh, I totally agree with you. They are worse than scum. However, when you jump into a pit full of scorpions and rattlesnakes, you gotta expect trouble. The predators-that-be and predator-class have been doing this for a long time, which makes me wonder why people are willing to play in a KNOWN repeatedly rigged game.
"Get real. Get smart. Get physical."
I like it. You should make t shirts and billboards on that line to get the word out.
yep. not only did they carnally violate you with pleasure this whole week but they are sticking around for breakfast monday morning.
we sit here and read and write about it, but it may be time for action.
maybe this week's nyc protest will later be seen as the jv contest before the big ugly varsity gets out there.
Of course you mean that in a tranistory way right Xeno?
Nice legs BTW.
don't you clowns ever sell ?? I sold some a few weeks back near 1900 and silver at 41 and am happy to be buying with my locked in profits which now turn into a bigger pile than before..
keep some of your stuff for trading and hide the rest
if you aren't trading what are you watching for each day?? for gold to hit $10,000 overnight?? you'll know that before you even wake up that day
About a month ago, I went to a local gun show to turn some Au into AR. Got about 1830 per ouce for gold I had paid $300 for. So I'm riding the house with 5 ounces per every ounce I sold. Even Jim Sinclair recommends doing this.
But try as I may to see the opportunity to BTFT as a good thing, I can't bring myself to smile after this past 48 hours. In addition to seeing my physical stockpile drop, my mining stocks got absolutely hammered. PanAm, Endeavour, SLW, FNV, good grief man. I'm off 25% or more on almost my entire portfolio.
The fundamentals haven't changed. But damn what a week to be a bullion investor. Gonna need more than 1 beer this weekend to put these flames out.
You seem to ranting about the values measured in worthless fiat linen. Why would you ever use that to keep score?
Because that's what he truly values. A thing is not worthless if it is valued by more than one person. Last time I looked, the majority of the country is using FRN to buy and sell goods and services, not gold.
I think of trading in the futures market as diving in a pool of sharks to grab some tasty steaks at the bottom at the pool, instead of thinking of it as a clearing house for commidity contracts.
Oh, thank God, I can buy more silver!!
HA HA HA
Oh yes, it will go higher.
MUCH
NoNo froggie; thanks to these bandits I can now do another 100 oz buy, and you also can stack...some more...silver.
CME must be sweating their margin buyers. Will they have the cash to cover?
Who is ready for the REVOLUTION? I'm tired of waiting around for an organized leader. SCREW IT....I am that leader! I'll start the damn thing myself. ARE WE READY? This manipulation is complete B.S.!!! I am sick of doing all the right things only to get hosed by a bunch of controling physco's. CHARGE BITCHEZ! I WANNA SLAP A MOTHA' IN THE FACE WITH MY GOLD BAR!!! SUCK IT YOU F%$#ERS!!!!
I'm gonna go take my nap now.
Blatant manipulation.
http://silverliberationarmy.blogspot.com/
wow, someone always knows!
I feel good I'm not on margin
Indeed. This week would have been Death by Bongo with even modest leverage.
Ze price stabeeleetee.
Yeah. as long as it is stable at bellow $35 right? Or wherever they want it. Right? WHERE ARE THE COPS?
I think the "price stability" witnessed in the last few days will be transitory.
Wonder how many people are demanding delivery.
100% margin! Get bullion.
Zackly.. I have and average price of about $17/oz on my investment.. I hope it goes back to 20.. or 15 for that matter... I'll buy more... and then buy more... For those that bought above 30.. Just hold it.. This isn't over.. not even close.. Nothing has been fixed... NOTHING has been fixed..
I could probably use some clarity here. Futures contracts with Gold at $600 p/oz held a 15-1 leverage. (15% margin)
With the new margin requirements, futures contracts will hold a 15-1 leverage. Is it possible the revaluing of collateral is to hold a 15-1 leverage? In this case as the price of gold or silver moves up it is necessary to adjust collateral requirements. With this mechanism I do not see how margins could ever get to 100% when the target seems to be 15 - 1. Margin percents appear to be linked to spot price or a moving target. To reach 100% margins CME would have to declare a 100% margin. Yes?
And to think how much money was made today by the assholes that knew about it ahead of time. Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges.
Are you counting the money they made since $1917 or just today? And what about the money they will continue to make until they start covering their shorts and going long gold again?
I was just thinking today...
I hate the asshole swindlers, too. And I'm not in the markets.
I am sure congress will prosecute those that front ran this news
Bens last bullet for stocks is crash the bond market
Other way around. Chopper B uses the stock mkt to herd $$$ into TBs. They'll be the last to burn.
why would congress prosecute themselves.
I'd like to know how many congressmen's portfolio's went short before the announcement.
Lame. So nobody sold 400t to an Asian country? I'm very surprised.
Ratio took quite a beating this week. Silver:JPM 1.0458
GeneMarchbanks
So nobody sold 400t to an Asian country?
Would never have affected the market at all.
Such frontrunning is absolutely unbelievable... Btw Tyler , any such move on Treasuries ? What is the current leverage of the futures contract , around 50x right ?
long term treasury futures margins were raised by 25%
where do you see that, i don't see it
I'm having a hard time buying this "conspiracy" that "rumors" of a margin hike caused this sell off. When they hike margins and it sells, you blame them. When it sells and they hike margins, you blame them.
TWENTY PERCENT off silver in two days because of a margin rumor? PULL YOURSELVES TOGETHER, PEOPLE!
Asia is about to tear CME, COMEX a new asshole.
Pan Asia Gold Exchange. Can't wait to see their results.
Un-f'ing-real...
Again showing that the big houses, with huge short positions, own the exchanges, regulators and all else for that matter.
F-off Jamie and Blythe!
i think im going to start digging
LOL. They hiked it because of the volitility. Not before.
You cant front run a plunge that already happened. Idiots.
It's good to see ZH allows "special" people to post here.
It IS good. It also means that somewhere out there, someone is having a well-deserved break.
You must be new here, and not have heard the news about the rumor of a Margin Hike.
Silver lost 25% in two trding days, with most of it happening today. If the margin hike wasn't known by some ahead of time, then what, oh wise one, caused this volatility in gold and silver only? Other assets didnt move the same way.
ZH readers own physical and see this as a buying opportunity. Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about. If you own silver it is because you really don't care what the fiat equivalent is. My silver didn't change. It's still hiding in a deep, dark hole in the Midwest, same as last week.
well everyone on the inside knew early today. the sheep get slaughtered, again. glad i have dry powder left for next week.
Pay day next Thursday and my exchange rate keeps getting better and better.
Where the hell are the cops for insider trading? I mean COME ON!
surfing porn...
Or surfing cars.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/21/cop-caught-car-surfing-in-quebec
Hmm. Must be some printing in the works...?
Who knew and when? If the CFTC does not act on this one, it is time to break out the pitchforks (I am restraining myself).
Perhaps they are engaging in a favorite past time of the SEC...
""Who Knew? and When?""
...Why only G_d knew...and his disciples, Brothers at G S.
So what, buy more!
True. It's an opportunity for JPMorgan to cover their baer naked arse, and an opportunity to back-up the truck for everyone else. Watch for supply shortages.
Don't sugar-coat it. We bullion investors got our asses handed to us these past 48 hours.
My ass is fine, even on Ag and still up 60% on Au. I did get my ass handed to me on mining stocks, but the eggs are in many baskets. I'm sticking with what I have in physical, unless it just gets ridiculously low. Meanwhile on to more productive non electric tools, and more beans, cartridges, med supplies.
Mostly the same here. I was buying Au at $300-325 per ounce, and Ag at $7-10 per ounce. But from an investment standpoint measured in the bullshit fiat dollars we all live and work and plan our children's future with (becuase we have to), today was still a tough day.
Real bullion investors prefer to buy low.
And?
Can this really explain a dump of the magnitude we saw today? I have my doubts.
Yes. What you see as a dump was a bunch of corrupt insiders front running in a very tiny market.
if enough people get on one side of the trade, sure, anything is possible
the ramp in stocks was paid for by the sell off in pms
The same old scam. What they need to do is find out who front ran this horseshit. At least CNBC and Bloomberg can stop rumor mongering now.
As Jim Sinclair has said repeatedly, it will be a cash only market before all is said and done. Own the physical metal unleveraged and this is nothing but a sale.
"...this is nothing but a sale."
Maybe. Are there any dealers actually selling at these prices or are they all saying they're out of stock, like they did a few years ago?
Lots of stock. Same premiums as last week.
I bought silver, gold and platinum 1oz coins today. No problem.
Gainsville looks good
Gainesville.
Is anyone else here shocked. Thank God, I am not margined. Those crazy rascals, just wiped all doubt about my Phzzz accumulation. Shakes head with faint smile. Crazy scared bas%#d's. I rather pity them.
Depends on how you look at it. I've got mine in 3kg bars and still feel butthurt today.
This is an after dumping move. Either someone wants to keep the price down or they are setting someone(s) up to fail. Certain places trying to reliquidated not getting as much bang for their bullion are either being sacrificed or setup to be eaten by larger fish.
Anybody know of or have willingness to chart the increasing margin levels for gold / silver contracts? Curious to see how out of the norm these margin hikes and total margin allowed appear in the big picture.
Margins hiked when prices go parabolic. Margins hiked when prices are in freefall.
And don't forget about the bi-weekly margin hikes.
And don't forget your margin margarine...http://www.butteryspreads.org/
The cosa nostra used to be more concerned about covering their tracks than these guys. It's way beyond criminal at this point. It's in your face, I'll steal your money, assfuck your wife and burn your house down........because I CAN.
Isn't the government wonderful?
predators DBA government
predators DBA corporations
predators DBA central banks
No hike for ES? Lolololoooool!
Effective next Monday!??!
And nobody fucking knew? Ya right
Anybody see the story on how yahoo blocked people from e-mailing each other about the wall street protests yet? Hahahaha--welcome to the ussa!
Was waiting to pull the trigger. Thanks CME for the chance to add 350 oz to the stack :). +80 oz for waiting a week is a great gift.
Anyone who disputes that the CME is in on the racket to suppress these 3 metals, especially gold and silver is simply an idiot or complicit. Frickin' thieves, all of them. Hang 'em high.
These MFs are outright criminals! F these SOBs!
WHOA! Never seen alphabets talk so nasty before -- you kiss your mother with that consonant ?
Anger is the proper response when one is being robbed.
Call these crooks for what they are.
Cocksuckers!!
Cocksuckers.
S.O.S.D.D.
The sooner this "system" collapses, the sooner an honest one can be created to take its place.
right on time
1) Buy physical now!
2) Wait a week.
3) See 1.
I hate this fuckin game and want these bastrads to drop dead. This is a fucking digrace.
Both GOLD and SILVER COMEX will be a physical market soon. When 100% cash is needed to have position, why even bother with closing and re-opening positions?
At that point people will demand delivery. At that point COMEX and JPM are fucked. This is a nice dip engineered to avoid the inevitable. Just go for physical. If you hold an ETF demand delivery, just get the bars out of the system and hide them somewhere.
Fucking Bitchez!
Got Physical? Margins suck!
If the last silver take-down in may was a drive by shooting, this take down was a roadside IED.