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Catching The "Silver Crusher" Algorithm In The Act

Tyler Durden's picture


There was a time when catching the silver "whack-a-mole" algo, or process, or intervention, or manipulation, or whatever one wants to call it, in action was a myth: an urban legend, perpetuated by silver conspiracy theorists. Until today that is. Courtesy of Nanex we now have direct evidence of just what the reflexive market (in which derivative products such as ETFs influence underlying assets) goes to town by taking silver to the woodshed at a whopping 75,000 times per second! From the broken market sleuths at Nanex:  "On March 20, 2012 at 13:22:33, the quote rate in the ETF symbol SLV sustained a rate exceeding 75,000/sec (75/ms) for 25 milliseconds. Nasdaq quotes lagged other exchanges by about 50 milliseconds. Nasdaq quotes even lagged their own trades -- a condition we have jokingly referred to as fantaseconds." Translation: so desperate was the desire to crush silver at precisely 13:22;33, that the Nasdaq order flow directive ended up moving faster than light. Frankly, we don't know about you, but when someone is willing to bend the laws of relativity, just to get a cheaper price in silver, to perpetuate a failing monetary system or for any other reason, we quietly step aside...

From Nanex:

SLV 1 second interval chart showing trades colored by reporting exchange.

SLV 1 second interval chart showing the NBBO
Shaded black if normal, yellow if locked (bid = ask) or red if crossed (bid > ask).

SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing trades colored by reporting exchange.
Chart shows about 200 milliseconds of time. 

SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing the NBBO
Shaded black if normal, yellow if locked (bid = ask) or red if crossed (bid > ask). Note the insanely high quote rate in the bottom panel. Chart shows about 200 milliseconds of time.

SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing the quotes and trades from ARCA (red) and Nasdaq (black).
You can clearly see the delay in Nasdaq quotes, yet their trades aren't delayed at all. Chart shows about 200 milliseconds of time.

SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing the quotes and trades from BATS (purple) and Nasdaq (black).
You can clearly see the delay in Nasdaq quotes, yet their trades aren't delayed at all. Chart shows about 200 milliseconds of time.

SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing trades colored by reporting exchange.
This chart shows approximately 150 milliseconds of time.

SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing the NBBO.
This chart shows approximately 150 milliseconds of time.


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Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:48 | 2278317 Burr's 2nd Shot
Burr's 2nd Shot's picture

That's craziness, the dude in the coin shop doesn't even speak that fast.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:04 | 2278400 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

I stopped worrying about rises and prices about 6 months ago when I saw it move from damn near 6 fucking dollars in minutes.   Stack it, eventually this thing called the USD is going to detonate.  


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:18 | 2278455 Crab Cake
Crab Cake's picture

Historically when its ten till midnight, gold and silver ownership is outlawed. My bet is that this time around the rhyme tptb will close the noose by outlawing all non electronic transactions. They will try this, theyre already pushing and selling it. They are trying to build the new Ponzi right now.

Viva la revolucion!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:02 | 2278595 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

How long until JP Morgan takes down this post?  

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:06 | 2278606 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Fuck JP. A bunch of pikers...


Seriously, Zerohedge is fucking changing the world. Our country is based of economics and I'm all for making Tyler the head of the Treasury when our country resets.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:50 | 2278725 Malachi Constant
Malachi Constant's picture

I'm all for making Tyler the head of the Treasury

It doesn't matter who occupies the seat—it's the seat itself that perverts the law. They have this hub to avoid the tedious job of corrupting each individual spoke. Want change? Quit an hierarchy.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:58 | 2278740 akak
akak's picture

"Quit a heirarchy."

But agreed.


(I could not give you an up-arrow due to you having started your post with a quote from another post.  But I would have if I could.)

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:16 | 2278803 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I gave him one for you.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:40 | 2278861's picture

Why are some blocked and others not? A question for the ages, I suppose.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:55 | 2278910 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Using the browser and a mouse it doesn't work.  If one looks at the html, it is pretty easy to work around.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:23 | 2279059's picture

How so?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:03 | 2279200 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Crockett - Post that begin with italics can not be voted up or down from most browsers.  Strange bug.  Sacralidge!!!  Oh !!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:30 | 2279258's picture

But it seems that XitSam is saying that he can vote on those items by playing with the html. Note that one person did up vote the post by Malachi Constant in question above.

When I find that one of my posts in not votable I can edit it by clicking on disable rich text and remove the code before the quote that interferes with voting. But I wouldn't know how to alter someone else's post in such a way unless I were to view the source, edit and save it and then vote. Not sure if that would work.


PS - I think I figured out how to do it. The post by Malachi Constant now has two up votes.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:53 | 2279343 fuu
fuu's picture

Ahhhh! Now it has 3.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:41 | 2279623 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture
  gruseom 636 days ago | link | parent

Nanex is a data feed company that was started by Eric Scott Hunsader who is one bad ass programmer and, based on my limited interactions with him when I used to program against a previous API he designed, a decent person. He was able to deliver results back then that other people couldn't dream of, and Nanex (called GenerationV at the time I think) was his "build it all again from scratch based on what you've learned to date" data feed engine. It's interesting to see the name come up here. How big of a player are these guys?

brownegg 636 days ago | link

They're not, really. Not on the HFT landscape, anyway. It's tempting to say they're being slept on, but the cream rises to the top VERY fast in HFT--there have been multiple instances of products brought to market and the company being purchased outright by the first would-be customer (although this is much, much more frequent on the networking and hardware sides).

I think the analysis and borderline-accusation of what is termed "insincere quoting" by the exchanges is... laughable. It doesn't speak well to the authors' knowledge of their industry. I've had an exchange disconnect my session for sending 1000+ orders per second by myself, and I would have been quite happy to execute any of them (or else they wouldn't have been sent). To be honest, I'm surprised 5000 is the biggest number they could find. I would have guess an order of magnitude higher.

What happened on 5/6 was that the NYSE finally learned that they aren't the boss in the equities markets anymore. Trying to slow down trading without regard for the other routing destinations was nothing but quaint.

You know those videos you see of suburban shoppers at 6:00a on Black Friday, rushing through the doors to get one of the three available Xbox 360s or whatever? The NYSE was the hapless security guard whose watch was slow telling everyone the store wasn't open yet.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 05:23 | 2279691 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

i think that is rock fish on the second shoal at 22 ft. ....

oh this isn't bill dance's fishfinder course?..never mind..

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 08:28 | 2279826 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture





Nothing to see here.


The CFTC is on the job.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:26 | 2279265 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture



Reform the monetary system before we are all pitched into chaos.

Enough is enough.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 05:16 | 2279685 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Charge the Flocker's a penny a trade.

Make the Flocker's pay to play.

Instant Karmas going to get them.

Upside - the Debt gets a transfusion

Downside - You Fuck the Flockers

Balls - BIG BALLS is what we need to kill this infection

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:15 | 2278804 strannick
strannick's picture

The Silver Crusher Algorithm is a computer selling a paper silver fraud instrument (SLV) on a paper silver fraud unregulated exchange (COMEX).

Needless to say, when solar panel makers and the military, -not to mention fiat currency malcotents -want silver, they will be gettings something a little more, shall we say, physical?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:55 | 2279186 rocker
rocker's picture

Excellent thought. Just like JPMorgan.  Short the paper, buy the physical. They do the same on a grandular scale for Platinum and Palladium.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 04:34 | 2279661 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

2 Quests:

1) The resolution is amazing - where's does Nanex get this kind of detail.

2) In the charts showing black bid = ask ticks, were those those traded or canceled. Easy to imagine, at these kinds of throughput rates, despite the fat pipe connecting  collocated HFTs to exchange trading object, there will be, on occasion, packet jams, Not beyond the realm of possibility an algor is early for own feigned "delayed by traffic" price discovery "ask".

Maybe a short squeeze so contractors working Skynet's newest 2 million square foot 2 Billion Smacker Citizen SpyOp project in Utah can get a better price on silver. The complex is way cooler than Solendras' offices All that mil-spec`d circuitry needs silver (very hot solder - lots of care reuired to assure the IC laminate don't get waxed) where the pins hit the boards. Lot's of silver in Utah,

What are they so afraid of? Who knows - maybe Anonymous will get cube space there and keep us informed (.... right).

Been stacking Libertads myself.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:39 | 2279307 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Actually, "an hierarchy" is grammatically acceptable, as is "a hierarchy". However, your spelling of "heirarchy" is in violation of the "i" before "e" rule, and is incorrect. You lose, but thanks for playing ;-)

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 02:31 | 2279539 akak
akak's picture

I always learned (and observed) the rule that one uses "an" before a word beginning in a vowel, "a" before a word beginning with a consonant (sound).

Since "h" is a consonant, it should take "a" and not "an", correct?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:07 | 2279575 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

The difference is due largely to the British not being able to enunciate. 'Ere, 'ere, 'ave an 'ot dog! An 'inge 'olds the door on.

Since its pronounced like a vowel, it gets preceded by an "an" instead of an "a." Still wrong, but that's why you see it.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 04:20 | 2279654 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

"A" or "an" is acceptable preceding a word beginning with "h".

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 04:40 | 2279666 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

But it so discomforting to "an horse", "an house" "an hullabaloo"

Works with "an Hawaiian" - but so do "a" - case by case it.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 05:32 | 2279698 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


"A" or "an" is acceptable preceding a word beginning with "h".

Only if you're British and nobody never learned you no good English.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 13:59 | 2281076 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

The red coats speak English? Don't that beat all! So what language do Welsh speak?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 01:00 | 2282668 Swemson
Swemson's picture

Ahhhh England...

Where every boy has a chance to grow up and be queen!


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 08:45 | 2279971 i_fly_me
i_fly_me's picture

After the collapse, when your community begins to realize that almost no one bothered to maintain any proficiency in basic low-tech skills, you two will be in high demand.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:07 | 2279376 semperfi
semperfi's picture

Like your picture RTM !

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 02:55 | 2279563 joe6px
Thu, 03/22/2012 - 14:18 | 2281190 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Dimes and quarters stamped in the 50's may have been 100% silver. At some point they started making silver Oreos with a thin copper "cream" filling (maybe after Kennedy's secret service forgot it's mission). Don't know details - but over time the "copper" filling got fatter (used regydrogenated copper with corn syrup) and the silver "cookies" got smaller.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:21 | 2279405 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Our country is based of economics and I'm all for making Tyler the head of the Treasury when our country resets.

What reset?  There isn't gonna be any reset. 

For a reset to happen the current government would have to be seized and dissolved.  That's not gonna happen.  The American people don't have the guts to do it, and the military is too sold out to do it.

Weimar style hyperinflation is where we're headed.  Bernake will keep right on printing untill the dollar loses world reserve currency status, drops like a stone, the economy implodes, America sinks into 2nd or 3rd world anarchy, and the government goes into full police state tyranny to control rioting masses of sheeple.

That's America's future. 

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 02:24 | 2279530 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

Dream on.


Not gonna happen in your or my lifetime.


Everbody keeps calling a major dropdown happening shortly.


Nope. They can keep this Ponzi going for a long, long, long time.


Remember the quote:


"The market can remain irrational for a lot longer than you can remain solvent."



Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:21 | 2279576 joe6px
joe6px's picture

I disagree.  The fact that we have bombed our way into the last three wars based on the petro-dollar dictates that the next war must be with Iran because the Islamic State has accepted alternatives to the dollar in payment for oil.  It is that simple.  Sadam did the same, Qudaffy did the same....and the Afghani's need a pipeline.  If the...we...the good-guys...the bad guys....lose our ability to print currency to pay our imanginary bills with other people's money...well we just may have a real problem.



The rabbit in the hat is the real economy...and that can not improve without an increase in real production, ie, the production of goods/services....and the 4th generation on great things..that is INFORMATION, has turned into spying and Indian customer service lines.  Please, kind sir, direct me to the recovery.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:09 | 2281370 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

In Honduras the control is concentrated in urban areas. The US is a high tech integrated network that eventually ports some commerce to the population centers. Weaknesses at any node can cause system wide failure. The commons is a roach nest - they can treat and step till the rooster crows and all they would accomplish is working up an appetite for food they depend on the commons to be delivered.

The infrastructure of the US is not the same as those we've allowed to be bombed. Look out your window. Cell towers, relays, power lines, zillion lane highways. All that stuff is woven through, maintained and invented by the commons. It is the creativity and knowledge of the commons that keep it all together. The criminals feed, and profit, at the pleasure of the commons, from production to delivery. The commons quits doing what only it knows how to do - what they goona do?

The goal is not to engage in a glorious blood letting fight where the assets belonging to the commons could be destroyed or stolen (like the museum at Ur in Iraq).

The goal is to win. The gold is to preserve the commons assets - the stuff our parents gave to us and the stuff we obliged to pass to our children.

The legal weaknesses in our rules that allowed a bloodless coup by the white shoe boys will need to be addressed. Justice for crimes against the republic by those trusted with the commons authorities, must be allowed and thorough. Without justice, the republic is just a whore pig with lipstick on.

All the commons would need to do is we have to do is collectively nonviolently demonstrate their collective awareness and the white shoe boys would be grabbing for the commons zippers, on their knees, just like they do when the pimps bag man cums a calling.

We get angry - bitch - publicize - that raises awareness. It is also a good diversion. Think about it:  Inside our rank and file civil and uniformed service employees implement dictum sharted by the white shoe crowd. The "record" espionage act whistle blower cases Bambi is pulling out of his ass may be just the tip of an iceburg. Our rank and file employees are the only people holding this mess together. The white shoe boy politicians and sayans partners are so dulled by their rut, that reality is an alien concept to them. I would bet the politicos fear what may be going on inside the rank and file they have to rely on to implement their crimes much more than they do the commons.

Coups and provisional governments are preceded by resentment of the commons - but in most cases, the "take back" is executed by uniformed and civil service employees, the spawn of the commons. You some of them may even have the home addresses for every Xe Merc being paid through the extractions from the commons. Anybody dirty inside the cloistered cluster fuck of rut the white shoe bathhouse sluts are running should be very worried - not bout us - but our loyal rank and file civil and uniformed - shit they know where the accounts are - where the transactions are - where the skeletons are - and they real good with guns.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 05:06 | 2279678 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Not gonna happen in your or my lifetime.

You're the one dreaming. 

It might well happen in 12 - 24 mo, and Bernanke won't be able to stop it.  He can't control how the rest of the world views the US dollar.

Sheeple like you hope it won't happen, so your worthless kids can have a future.

I don't give a fuck about your worthless kids and their future, and neither does anyone else.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 05:34 | 2279699 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture


His kids will have a future - digging slit trenches under fire in our WOC (War Of Choice) number 34.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 09:44 | 2286377 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

No doubt, the real reason China has been buying physical and shipping ton after ton back to home base is to win the true war...and that is to wrest contol of the world's reserve currency status away from the US.

The only way that can happen is if the Chinese Yuan is backed by massive amounts of gold and silver. International trade will simply migrate to the CY just like deer trotting over to a salt lick. The Chinese won't have to declare that they now posess the world's reserve currency, it'll just be a gradual process that happens over time, slowly changing the way international transactions take place, and the dollar is eventually dethroned.

Once that happens, the financial engine that supports the US military will
cause massive drawdowns...especially to the Navy. Taiwan is then easy pickens.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:12 | 2278627 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

I remember last summer how many posts I read as the HFTs beta tested their newest market crash algos. It wasn't long until they put them to use. Get ready. It won't be silver they flex their muscle on. All your AAPL are belong to me!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:43 | 2278705 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Sorry but this evidence is far too late to be considered for the investigation into manipulation of the Silver market which started three and a half years ago.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:48 | 2279634 joe6px
joe6px's picture

they can't touch appl, to do so would spell decline!  There is one shining light in the market, so why douse it?  The only real decline in Appl is profit taking...they make a big deal of it in the PM's...but apple gets a pass because it perpetuates the fraud....I mean the market.  So sorry central planners...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:11 | 2278783 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Crab Cake said:

My bet is that this time around the rhyme tptb will close the noose by outlawing all non electronic transactions. They will try this, theyre already pushing and selling it.

Oh, my, that would certainly be a grand display of antiwisdom! Unless an electronic transaction system, from the very day of its inception, was completely free of of all vulnerabilities, it would be a disaster waiting to happen.

This includes software vulnerabilities, electronic vulnerabilities, and weaknesses in the physical infrastructure. It applies to all nodes and links in the system, from "consumer" identification tokens and point-of-sale end nodes to corporate and government servers, as well as every network device and segment and every communication and transaction protocol.

If it is not perfect from day one, it will fail. Due to the potential gain that a successful exploit could provide, it will become the most frequently and persistently targeted system on the planet. This doesn't even take into consideration the integrity of the people running such a system.

Imagine the hilarity which would ensue if the only legal transaction system stopped working at precisely 11:59 PM (23:59) on Thanksgiving day. Nobody could do any Christmas shopping unless they were willing to break the law and participate in the black market. Good luck buying groceries, filling your gas tank, and paying any bills.

They are trying to build the new Ponzi right now.

It's the only game they know.

The system is self-immolating.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:00 | 2278936 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

They're working fast and furiously to eliminate currency from the system as we speak. Your new Ben Franklins will be just bits on a plastic card it they get their way. Someone probably has a plan to make plastic gold and silver too. It solves a lot of problems for TPTB.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:23 | 2279054 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Only problem with that is aaaaall those paper dollars out there (coins too) out busy in the cash market come home to roost...


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 08:16 | 2279887 Umh
Umh's picture

We will get about two months to turn in all of the physical money before the STATE declares it worthless or in the case of the nickle more.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 09:21 | 2280071 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

That's right LowProfile.  And how would they fund black ops without cash?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:45 | 2279149 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

When the paper market dramaticly fail it will be generations before anyone will buy paper gold or silver. The 399 people who think they own gold will remember that only lucky #400 got physical delivery. This will make a big impression. When bond markets fail the professional money managers will be looking for far more secure ways of managing.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:11 | 2279580 joe6px
joe6px's picture

what will that be? canned salmon?  They will reap what they sow.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:02 | 2279249 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

I gave you a green for the interesting article, but The Atlantic is just a mouthpiece for the Ponzi.  At one time, long ago, I am sorry to say I was a subscriber.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:26 | 2279597 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Replaced "The Atlantic" with "Reason Magazine." :>)

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 06:04 | 2279715 mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

Yeah but then so are most media organisations then right? The trick is to be able to discern which reporting is good and fact based and which is not.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:55 | 2279353 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

tptb will have an amnesty period where you're allowed (forced) to sell your hoard to the government in exchange for fiat.    Paralleling amnesty will be outlawed sales of all silver & gold along with a completely closed door on cross border transport that will result in immediate confiscation.   Next will come the big round-up for holdouts which will include all safe deposit boxes, home raids, etc.. 

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 05:52 | 2279709 ChrisFromMorningside
ChrisFromMorningside's picture

Buy a parcel of dirt-cheap rural land somewhere and bury it. While I do think it will get as crazy as you suggest, I don't think that period will last long.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 13:45 | 2281017 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

But they won't call in family jewelry, right? So buy rolls and rolls of 14k or 18k gold chains. Yeah, the markup will be higher, but if it won't be seized while gold eagles will be seized, it will be great for barter. I am about to become a goldsmith!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:09 | 2279381 semperfi
semperfi's picture

And at 9 till midnight lead ownership takes over.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:28 | 2279601 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Cast silver buckshot. I hear it does wonders on werewolves.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:18 | 2278457 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

can't detonate soon enough. keep raiding the market, assholes! i'm going to add more to my stash! hahahahaha!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:19 | 2278458 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

double post. sorry, bitchez!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:43 | 2279139 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1
Best dupe post apology I have seen!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:55 | 2278583 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

It's fine with me because it only makes their problem worse. Price floors only increase demand in the long run.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:53 | 2278904 Dollar Damocles
Dollar Damocles's picture

Are you really a cute girl who understands supply and demand as well as silver price suppression? I think not!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:29 | 2279420 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

It's a girl alright. Past experience.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:40 | 2278699 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I too remembered the 6 dollar drop.

Even so this big dollar drop took 25 seconds or so to slam the door shut and another 3 minutes to nail everything and bar it. Wow.

That tells me just one simple fact.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:22 | 2278821 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

  2oo oz silver  supported with 2oo Oz of lead slug, if you can stock up 200 oz of good scotch ..

keep on trucking hookers



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:21 | 2278814 old naughty
old naughty's picture

That's about the only thing moles and muppets can do...Now that they have made everything their domi-no, ~0 rate, nasdapple, algo down au ag...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:06 | 2278407 SHEEPFUKKER

Those charts looks like a bad acid trip from the 60's


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:30 | 2278501 ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

Unfortunately, they remind me of my sex life after 18 years of wearing a ring.................

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:40 | 2278532 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Stop hedging your hedges sit down and have a one on one about it.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:22 | 2278653 ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture


I can see it now: "I'm dissatisfied with our sex life and have been for a long time."

Reply: "Oh really???????  Let me go get my list..........................."


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:24 | 2278830 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Married for 20 years, never had bad sex but got out due to bad karma. The only thing that worked was the sex....and me.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 04:34 | 2279663 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

yours was a marriage far above average then

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 07:35 | 2279797 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

i'm still fairly there such a thing as 'bad sex'??? just asking....

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 10:49 | 2280376 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

You'll find out when someone visits and says "I'm from the government and I'm here to do you. Bend over."

Suggestion to those lamenting fall-off in sex lives: Get a job with the TSA as depicted recently on South Park. Or, as Woody Allen said in one of his movies, "I pracitce a lot when I'm alone."

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:37 | 2279603 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Thanks. I think I just coughed up a lung.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:03 | 2278396 Pejorative Requiem
Pejorative Requiem's picture

still laughing....... man, that's a funny line

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:57 | 2278572 Michael Victory
Michael Victory's picture

tru dat.

here's another line(s) (15 minutes worth)..

WATCH: Bernanke shovels rubbish on a Gold standard.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:27 | 2278493 Banksters
Banksters's picture

Is there any way we could sell our resident fuckwit, trav, for physical silver?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:50 | 2278723 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

if we could only sell him for what he thinks he's worth.....

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:46 | 2279150 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 to anti-troll JonNadler!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:31 | 2279609 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

You know, Akak has a 100 tOz brick with your name on it. Just saying.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:01 | 2278755 akak
akak's picture

Worth his own weight in "bagholders"!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:46 | 2278878's picture

Trav moved on to a higher plain some days ago. I don't know if anyone was able to collect thirty pieces of silver or not.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:34 | 2279239 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Yup, trav has ascended.  Let's see how it went down:

-St. Peter: Welcome to ZH heaven, friend.  You have left the realm of pain and misery and come to a place of universal love and understanding.

-trav: Who gave refrigeration to the people of this place?  It wasn't blacks.

-St. Peter: That's not an issue, loved one.  God's love is universal.

-trav: I hate silverbugz.  Cliff said $60 by last May and he was wrong.  ROTFL

-St. Peter: God does not care about the manipulated price of silver.  Neither should you.  Buy physical while you can.

-trav: Do you even understand peak oil?  EROI?

-St. Peter: It does not matter.  Come with me to a better place.

-trav: McD's is now.

-St. Peter: Fuk it.  If this is heaven, get me out of here if you are in it.  Buy physical.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:40 | 2279310 akak
akak's picture

As much as I hate these trite and cliched texting abbreviations,


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:03 | 2279368's picture

I believe that the proper cliche to append to that post is:


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:29 | 2278841 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture




"LA LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAARRRR YOUUUU LA LA LA!!!"  - Gary Gensler's response to this post

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:34 | 2279101 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

hahahaha! Made my day! Should have seen it coming, I know, but caught me absolutely flat footed.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:20 | 2281417 Sokhmate
Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:35 | 2279107 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

About a week ago, I signed out of ZH saying it was getting too dangerous speaking truth in a public forum. My bad...mea culpa.

I must speak truth until they come for me.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:15 | 2279584 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

No doubt. But there still may be some inanimate silver left.

My silver just sits there and looks pretty. I don't expect it to do any more than that.

Otherwise it would be in a circus. Like the paper stuff in COMEX is.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 13:28 | 2280942 ClevelandJanelle6
ClevelandJanelle6's picture

my neighbor's aunt makes $67 hourly on the laptop. She has been fired from work for ten months but last month her check was $20142 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Here's the site to read more ....

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:48 | 2278318 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Now how long can this funky monkey crap last? I had my screens running full throttle in 2008 and during one of the big drop days I seen ATI hit rock bottom and bounce hard, and it was HOG buying it up. if they didn't know.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:52 | 2278338 spinone
spinone's picture

as long as you keep playing too.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:16 | 2278452 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Nope, until June of this year, the PAGE exchange (Pan Asia Gold Exchange) is a silver and gold exchange with 1 contract to 1 physical piece (not 100 to 1 like in the West), 8 Chinese bank to do the fix in the morning, Agricultural Bank of China plugging 230 million chinese  clients in the exchange so they can buy it from their computer at home, the contract and title is nominal no re-hypothetication. Someone is desperately trying to get out before June. GO CHINA! Fuck London and New York paper manipulators. That will force central banks in the West to have discipline. The contracts are open to international investors, the contracts will trade at a premium because they are of betterquality, Gold will move there because of that. The contracts are settled in Yuan. I KNOW YUAN IS GETTING INTERNATIONALIZED THROUGH THE PMs IT IS HUGE. SEND A POST CARD OF SYMPATHY TO THE ENGINEERS OF THE POLITBURO IN CHINA, THEY DID A GOOD JOB. THEY ARE DOING EVERYONE A SERVICE BY ENCOURAGING THEIR PEOPLE TO OWN REAL MONEY, THEY SHOW THEY ACTUALLY CARE FOR THEIR PEOPLE AS OPPOSED TO WESTERN PSYCHO "DEMOCRACIES" ABUSING THE POPULATION WITH ENCOURAGEMENT TO GET IN DEBT AND ABUSING THE SAVERS WITH INFLATION AND THE DISPARAGING GOLD TROLL (BUFFET).

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:27 | 2278495 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

PAGE is about a year behind...heard all this last's not going to happen. China? No. The Silver "investigation" to stop the monkey business by the CFTC is going on 3 years now. And then there was something called "Position Limits" that were supposed to stop the shorts. 

It's all BS.

Nothing will happen until the metal runs out or the Financial System comes apart. Then who knows? Silver will be actually money again, and worth about a gazillion dollars an ounce. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:35 | 2278694 flacon
flacon's picture

Andrew Maguire said that PAGE was killed dead. 


Listen here:


The silver lining to this is that they are setting up a SILVER exchange.... I do hope it works this time....



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:33 | 2278848 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

They should be careful or NATO will liberate them with democracy.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:14 | 2279231 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture


I needed that.. Thank You!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:13 | 2279392 Nage42
Nage42's picture

Can someone provide a paraphrase of that broadcast?


I can't listen to that twats voice without wanting to put icepicks in my ears...


Incase you're wondering why his voice is monotone with left-right channel warble, he's trying to use NLP trancing... shame his tonality is so horrible that people just want to throat-punch him... or maybe that's just me.


Looking forward to the day the US is a third-world country and the "NY whine" accent will be considered as hicksville as valley-girl speak....

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 09:32 | 2280118 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

King's affected voice is annoying as hell. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:48 | 2278716 Chaffinch
Chaffinch's picture

Flacon is right. Heard an interview with Ned Naylor-Leland on Turd Furguson's TMR site. PAGE is dead but there are high hopes for something better - which they are keeping under wraps for as long as possible in case it gets undermined like PAGE was. It will be a 1:1 silver market, not gold (yet) as gold too politically sensitive at the moment in China.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 04:58 | 2279672 uniman
uniman's picture

I happen to have some insight into this and I am wondering where you get the idea that gold is so politically sensitive in China.  In fact, it has an amazing logic to it that, if one desired to engaging in risk taking activities, would make it worthy of further consideration.

I know of at least one retail branch of China Construction bank where you can buy small ingots.  I suspect that what happens at one branch is likely to happen at others.  And sure, it's fun to speculate about the quantity of tungsten in the ingots but I will leave it as an exercise for my readers to ponder what mechanisms might counter-balance the natural tendency of larceny.  In any event, they sure _look_ like goldy and pretty to me.

There's also ICBC which has a nice program whereby an ordinary person can connect their ordinary bank account to a PM trading account.  You can trade gold in units of 1gm and there's no transaction fee.  There is however a 0.8 RMB constant spread between the quoted bid and ask price, so perhaps there's a fee buried in there somewhere.  You can also trade silver and platinum.

Again, it's fun to scoff at the business ethics of whoever runs this in China and I'm aware of the arguments against "paper" metals.  Nevertheless, the Chinese have a big problem with too much money supply and not enough good use for it.  The authorities seem to have a requirement to keep expanding the money supply in order to keep the CNYUSD priced at their desired level.  But if everybody plays real-estate mogul then they get a real-estate bubble.  A lot of people enjoy playing the stock market, even though many would be hard pressed to explain what exactly "stock" is or why anybody sets up an online casino for their benefit. 

So it would be really, really good news, for the Chinese authorities, if the ocean of people took a liking to gold instead.  Also, widespread ownership of paper gold would be a very useful step towards an eventual return to a gold standard.  I think everybody sees that writing on the wall.

So the fundamental issue is whether or not this paper gold is purely or partially a work of fiction.  That I cannot answer.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 06:07 | 2279717 mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

Totally. I heard PAGE got harpooned by a foreign shareholder who was associated to Western Banking Cartels. Word on the street is they're having another crack soon without foreign money.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:15 | 2278641 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Right, except for the part about the Chinese giving two shits about their citizens.  They let them buy with the thought that they can always make it illegal or take it away.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:51 | 2278896's picture

Well let me tell you something about Chinese citizenism...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:01 | 2278939 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Ah, Chinese citizenism citizens and their group obsession.

Funny how Chinese citizenism citizens jump on their high horses, and display that openly their deep troubles of self perception.

Made me laugh.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:27 | 2279075 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

No monee no silver, so solly.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 05:20 | 2279688 akak
akak's picture


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:48 | 2279155 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

You mean like in the US?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:25 | 2279414 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

They do give a shit, at least a lot more than our psychos in the West. The world will never be perfect, but they are trying hard to have the general population not overthrow them by delivering the goods and avoid mass movements which they abhor since Mao mass movements (Great Leap forward and cultural revolution) were total disasters . Our guys do not care they leave the problem to the other guys so they can blame the other party. Since the communist party can not blame any other political party, they have todeliver the goods.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:42 | 2279450 UnderDeGun
UnderDeGun's picture

Geez son. Chill. "THEY" do not HAVE to do anything they dont want to do. And they will always do what they feel they NEED to do and everyone else can go straight to hell.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:09 | 2279382 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

But if the Chinese are buying up silver, it would be in their interest for the price to be low, wouldn't it? So why would they initiate a new exchange in such a way that it causes the price to rise more than it would anyway? ... I don't really understand why so much hope is placed on the PAGE.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:45 | 2279454 UnderDeGun
UnderDeGun's picture

Me either, Iron. The only Exchange that anyone can truly trust is the one from my hand directly to yours.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:53 | 2278341 iamgogi
iamgogi's picture

As long as funky monkey can crap. And he is a good crapper. Or until the physical overwhelms the paper...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:50 | 2278322 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Wow, visualizing the destruction of capitalism to perpetuate elitist psychopathocracy really IS a trip!


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:55 | 2278912's picture

"To get back to the warning that I received. You may take it with however many grains of salt that you wish. That the brown acid that is circulating around us isn't too good. It is suggested that you stay away from that. Of course it's your own trip. So be my guest, but please be advised that there is a warning on that one, ok?"

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:02 | 2278942 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Describing the destruction of capitalism, , is just as enlightening.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:59 | 2279191 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

+1 for coining 'psychopathocracy' . that word really rolls of the toungue and ryhmes well with psychopathology. 


nicely done jim . that's one hot ass word you used, but  unfortunately , it's cold as ballz in minnesota. 

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:37 | 2279303 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

What with the 3,500 record high temperatures recorded in the US in March (cf. The Weather Channel this evening), it really isn't.  You can ice fish without a shirt and everything.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:46 | 2279457 UnderDeGun
UnderDeGun's picture

... to nowhere.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:51 | 2278326 Bill D. Cat
Bill D. Cat's picture

One millisecond charts ......will a good speed reading course .. oh ,never mind .

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:10 | 2278618 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

It always helps!

I'm now down to nano-second analyses..... trouble is, my trigger finger is a bit slow.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:35 | 2278850 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

I'm so glad Evelyn Wood is my broker.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:56 | 2278920's picture

That's funny.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:51 | 2278328 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

smh, polishing (discounted) brass on the titanic man

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:51 | 2278331 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Purty polka dots.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:51 | 2278333 veyron
veyron's picture

I think that nanex machines left NTP running ... I checked on my direct feeds (10G, colo'd in nasdaq) and saw no such lag.  


If their clocks had problems (essentially, letting NTP correct itself during the day) that would explain most of the quirks they see.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:11 | 2278432 Western
Western's picture

So smart, and your name is that of a $1,000,000 car.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:33 | 2278511 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

So you're saying they're woefully incompetent amateurs.
I find that hard to believe.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:53 | 2278576 chinaboy
chinaboy's picture

NTP being network timing protocol. You are speculating that nanex is using local network time. If so, the less precise local time may screw up all time stamp. From what I can see, they clearly have adequate timestamp. So your speculation is really superficial.


I think you don't want nanex to spoil your supremacy. You think you have a hand over others. If so, keep playing on gold and silver. After all, super fast computing take over the market only for short period of time.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:17 | 2278623 veyron
veyron's picture

I'm noting the following: nasdaq's data is inherently sequential (both the TCP-based and the UDP-based feeds).  Therefore, to see something out of order based on a time measure means that either:


- their system is dropping packets (and issuing retransmit requests)

- their system has a clock problem


The situation is different with some of the other exchanges (e.g. BATS) because they use multiple devices as matching engines.  NASDAQ uses one.


As for speculation, I looked at my raw capture of the feed.  The machine is sitting in nasdaq, and I have a 10G cross-connect.  If my data shows no such anachronism, and the raw data (using nasdaq's timestamps) shows no such anachronism, the only logical conclusion is that there is an issue with nanex's recording process.


EDIT: what NTP does is adjust time occasionally.  If NTP makes a pass and concludes that the local clock is moving faster than the remote time (generally it hits, then it will shift local time back, which would explain the time anomaly.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:32 | 2278680 Likstane
Likstane's picture

Looking at my 20G cross-connect, I was thinking the same thing, only in half the time.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:58 | 2278747 veyron
veyron's picture

Actually, they are introducing a 40G connection:

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:54 | 2278737 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

lol. Coupla computer nerds scratching each others eyes out. Veyron wins.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:09 | 2278780 MaggieL
MaggieL's picture

Maybe. This would suggest that somebody at Nanex understands high-precision time measurement:

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:04 | 2278952 veyron
veyron's picture

This discussion lacks details of the measurement (e.g. how was the data captured, what timestamps were used).


For example, some data vendors actually replace the exchange timestamp field with their local time.  If nanex was using a vendor, they wouldn't know if that replacement was happening.


I can confidently say there was no problem precisely because I actually record both timestamps.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:13 | 2278791 chinaboy
chinaboy's picture

Thank you very much for discussing with me.

(1) Nanex uses exchange time stamp.

(2) One needs to turn off NTP in order to have consistent time source ( a networking common knowledge). Asserting someone else about their NTP is often problematic.

(3) The issue here goes much beyond networking. And you keep making conclusions based on networking. Nasdaq trades vs. quotes discrepancy is a serious problem. IS it a design issue (why)?

Again, you have my respect.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:48 | 2278882 veyron
veyron's picture

With regards to timestamps, I am highly suspicious of the following statement in the fantaseconds page:

"Millions of traders depend on the accuracy of exchange timestamps"

That is patently false.  If you are running a multi-exchange trading strategy (e.g. location arb) you need to maintain your own timestamps (especially when sending intermarket sweep orders -- to comply with regulation NMS -- where you have to prove that the data you had at the time was consistent with the orders you sent).

But both arguments look at UTDF/UQDF, so let's discuss that example.

we are in agreement with this statement: "One needs to turn off NTP in order to have consistent time source", and I am arguing that they didn't turn off NTP.  This only applies if they are using their own timestamps, though.

The plots which show a crossed or locked NBBO necessarily involves multiple exchanges, and you can see from the plot itself that they are using multiple sources, so i guess the real question is what timestamps are they using?

I will recant this entire line of argument if they would give details as to how they did the tests.  For example:

1) how did they obtain the data?  Did they record it live?  If they did, where is the source of the recording?

2) were there any retransmit requests from the data source?  If so, how are they handled?  Are they correctly inserted in sequence?  And if they are reinserted, are the timestamps correctly handled?

3) did they or their data source use a low latency connection?  were they colocated?

Each discussion is a learning opportunity.  This discussion forced me to dig through their arguments in more detail.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:38 | 2278856 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

And the time adjustment happened just as silver was getting it's ass handed to it?  Yet all the other packets seem to be in sync... 

That's some timing right there.  Say if a NTP daemon running on a box is adjusting time does it ever write something out to a sys log indicating that time had been adjusted?  Yes, that's rhetorical.. it does.  And if you got a box out there your running this kinda crap on you prolly got some folks watching your logs.

You could be dead on and have their technical problem pegged... or you could be damn wrong.  Lets say there is no manipulation in the silver markets.  Why did the price drop?  Was there some news I didn't hear that indicates that the supply of silver in surplus and folks don't know what to do with the silver supplies they have? 

Yea, I'm kinda being an ass, but even you have to admit that is a heck of a coincidence.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:56 | 2278915 veyron
veyron's picture

"Say if a NTP daemon running on a box is adjusting time does it ever write something out to a sys log indicating that time had been adjusted?  Yes, that's rhetorical.. it does."  

 Actually if syslogd is disabled, under most distributions' configurations of NTP the adjustments aren't captured.


"Lets say there is no manipulation in the silver markets.  Why did the price drop?"

Is it possible that an algorithm was asked to unwind a large position in SLV and it opted to just dump the position on the open markets?  This certainly doesn't represent manipulation yet is a possible explanation.  Not saying there wasn't manipulation, but price drop does not necessarily imply manipulation.


"And the time adjustment happened just as silver was getting it's ass handed to it?  Yet all the other packets seem to be in sync... "


I suspect they noticed the silver issue because that fell quite a bit.  I don't think they look at every stock during the day.  They probably cherry picked this example because of the magnitude of the move and noticed the time issue.  If the issue were persistent, they would notice this with other stocks as well, but it's not clear if they would check. (analogy: just because few people speed in the presence of a cop, you can't make a statement about how many people would speed if the cop weren't there)


Now im not saying that manipulation is impossible.  I'm saying that their time analysis is sketchy at best.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:08 | 2278966 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Nanex has spotted this outside of silver before. Has for quite some time. disabled syslogd? Really? Think about the implications there. Sure it can be done but will it?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:33 | 2279094 veyron
veyron's picture

I want them to give some details regarding how they obtained the data in the first place.  I looked into a few of their examples (this, the one on the fantasecond page, another one regarding patterns in dell) and I saw no problems in the raw data.  It's possible they are using vendor data that is messy, but in order to confirm we need nanex to give details

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:21 | 2279044 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

And your saying it is normal to turn off syslogd?  Yea, they can turn that off but why would they do that one a box of this nature?  That doesn't make sense.  I work in the financial field myself and while we have tuned several boxes for special purposes, compiled builds that don't have several "features" installed, I can't imagine them turning off syslogd.

Possible an algo jumped in and smacked things down?  Of course, obviously that is exactly what happened.  That's not in dispute at all I don't think, but the timing of it certainly is.

I would certainly like to see a raw packet dump of the data, check to see how their timestamp setup is configured and all that to, but I trust Zerohedge and from looking at that dataset and making a judgement on that dataset, I think it's safe to say something happened that shouldn't have.

If we had some decent regulators they could go back track down this batch of orders, look at the headers and see timestamp and order numbers, match it against this time and prove it straight out.  But that won't happen.



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