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Catching The "Silver Crusher" Algorithm In The Act
There was a time when catching the silver "whack-a-mole" algo, or process, or intervention, or manipulation, or whatever one wants to call it, in action was a myth: an urban legend, perpetuated by silver conspiracy theorists. Until today that is. Courtesy of Nanex we now have direct evidence of just what the reflexive market (in which derivative products such as ETFs influence underlying assets) goes to town by taking silver to the woodshed at a whopping 75,000 times per second! From the broken market sleuths at Nanex: "On March 20, 2012 at 13:22:33, the quote rate in the ETF symbol SLV sustained a rate exceeding 75,000/sec (75/ms) for 25 milliseconds. Nasdaq quotes lagged other exchanges by about 50 milliseconds. Nasdaq quotes even lagged their own trades -- a condition we have jokingly referred to as fantaseconds." Translation: so desperate was the desire to crush silver at precisely 13:22;33, that the Nasdaq order flow directive ended up moving faster than light. Frankly, we don't know about you, but when someone is willing to bend the laws of relativity, just to get a cheaper price in silver, to perpetuate a failing monetary system or for any other reason, we quietly step aside...
From Nanex:
SLV 1 second interval chart showing trades colored by reporting exchange.
SLV 1 second interval chart showing the NBBO
Shaded black if normal, yellow if locked (bid = ask) or red if crossed (bid > ask).
SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing trades colored by reporting exchange.
Chart shows about 200 milliseconds of time.
SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing the NBBO
Shaded black if normal, yellow if locked (bid = ask) or red if crossed (bid > ask). Note the insanely high quote rate in the bottom panel. Chart shows about 200 milliseconds of time.
SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing the quotes and trades from ARCA (red) and Nasdaq (black).
You can clearly see the delay in Nasdaq quotes, yet their trades aren't delayed at all. Chart shows about 200 milliseconds of time.
SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing the quotes and trades from BATS (purple) and Nasdaq (black).
You can clearly see the delay in Nasdaq quotes, yet their trades aren't delayed at all. Chart shows about 200 milliseconds of time.
SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing trades colored by reporting exchange.
This chart shows approximately 150 milliseconds of time.
SLV 1 millisecond interval chart showing the NBBO.
This chart shows approximately 150 milliseconds of time.
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The question I'm discussing involves the timing and not the move.
I have to make sure that i don't inadvertently violate the TOS but if it's not a problem (i'm not a vendor of record) I will post the raw data.
I know there are vendors that replace the timestamp field with their local timestamps, which is why its important to know where nanex gets its data. I haven't seen any discussion about that, not here and not in their fantaseconds page
Do they (regulators) have anyone in their employ that could even figure this stuff out? Seems if they were smart enough they'd be in the private sector. I'm grateful for your discussion.
If we had decent regulators? That will be the day. What we have is a regulatory "go-slow". Four years waiting for a result from them in the silver investigation.Decency and all will only come from a bureaucratic enema. I call BS on Gensler and his surfy chick, Bart Chilton.
I am guessing you haven't bothered to look at Silver Futures or other Silver based ETFs or silver mining stocks, or options on any of those instruments. If you did, you'd see that this type of manipulation has all the hallmarks of "The Disruptor" -- which perfectly times orders in all instruments to hit simultaneously, factoring in such things as speed of light and the processing capacity and load of every machine involved. Truly a work of art in terms of sophistication. You are only seeing the "tip of the iceberg" in SLV.
We bring up SLV to point out how some exchange blindly ignore Reg NMS with regard to routing -- because if they were following regulations it would be impossible for a trade to appear before the quote.
The charts use exchange timestamps from the CQS feed. What is going on is the nasdaq direct feed into CQS gets delayed, and CQS doesn't timestamp messages until it transmits them.
NTP is a protocol -- a specification, and can't "do anything". What you referring to are archaic NTP daemon programs which use the NTP protocol to set time. They aren't very good with time resolutions below 100 milliseconds. And unfortunately, exchanges use them. (http://www.nanex.net/Research/ClockDiff/UQDFClockDiff.html ). I have a charts showing that even direct feeds are guilty of poor timing, even though they use microsecond or even nanosecond timestamp resolutions.
Your "logical conclusion" BTW, has a severe flaw -- it doesn't explain how trades aren't affected but quotes are. No matter how one twists the facts. I truly hope you aren't trolling..
Bart Chilton hardest hit .
Just looking at the Total Situation (M.E. in particular) I'd say we're in the midst of the final pound-down on PMs and final ramp-up of ponzi paper. High rollers will bail w/in hours of the IranWar outbreak.
the time frame says it all ..... a message was being sent . look at the time !!!!
don't understand - look a the time - what about the time?
Just minutes before the Comex close.
13
22
33
Illuminati numbers.
Last year the big beat-down was on their anniversary (May 1).
1:22:33 PM.
I'm no numerologist, but I am pretty sure that means "Buy:Physical:Bitchez"
11, (1+2+2+3+3) is the magician... the one who calls demons.
they pull this crap all the time, both because they are so damn proud of themselves, and also to piss of those are watching for it.
It's not really a gang sign if it's completely secret.
Pardon my ignorance.
How do you distinguish manipulation vs. option market makers automated trades?
What rational and non-manipulative entity without an ulterior agenda is going to make trades that automatically, BY DEFINITION, are going to lose them significant amounts of money?
Maybe one that represents an entity that owns at least half of the physical wealth of the world and simply wants to make sure that no one else can remain independent of their power.
My belief is that if fiat ever falls then silver and gold will become worthless because the power behind the fiat could never allow gold and silver to have value that it did not control.
Power and fiat are VERY far from synonymous, although we are lead to believe that such an illusion exists from time to time.
If they Fiat fails so does their power base. That sort of means that they no longer are the entity with the power. You can try to seperate it all you wish, but in the end you're only fooling yourself into believing that entities BS.
Here...I'll explain:
If you're a trader...you don't...you enjoy it and try to piggy-back your way to fiat paydays brought to you by the status quo's casino
If you're not a trader...you don't....you enjoy it and buy physical, live your life, and resolve within yourself that your discipline and prudence will one day shine when your stack of silver performs it's original function and protects your 'ass-ets' and purchasing power.
The time for distinguishing is over....nobody cares...including the DOJ, the CFTC, and every other "dead letter alphabet govt. agency"
It still looks like a conspriacy theory to me
Yeah, and that Kenworth blowing it's airhorn because you're in the middle of the street dancing to Lady Ga-Ga?
It's just an illusion, don't worry about it. It'll go away.
Like your syphillis.
Stop IT you're killin me.. :P
Are you saying that Hamy has been assisting with the Kony campaign?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/joseph-kony/9159020/Kony-2012-...
you almost had it right. CON/PIRACY. sometimes dyslexia actually works!
You wave a square flag.
It's a Conspiracy analysis Harry. I can understand with your below 100 IQ how you could make that mistake. You couldn't even spell the word conspiracy correctly.
Spelling and IQ are not a function of each other in terms of the general quotient. But then again, if you are referencing IQ and such you might have known that at the extreme right tail of bell curve, above the Asian means, at the highest level of average IQ are a group of people that you despise the most: the (Ashkenazi) Jews. (You know, the one's that invented that search engine you use daily, and other tech.)
The question then is exactly how valid an IQ test really is......
Two Wongs don't make a Reich.
So what then does the 3rd Stigmata make ol' Palmer? ;p
It's all blood.
Hate is a control machine. It's hungry, it cuts both ways and it's only happy when it's well fed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwl8HTLeBMw
So chew some Can-D and make use of your time of translation, buddy boy. Call up Pat PRONTO!
Love to love. Love to hate the haters. Hate to love. One needs the other, especially when you are low IQ, eh?
PS i just pulled my 1st edition of 3 Stigmata...a lovely little novel....THIS IS AN ILLUSION.
Sadly, hate is is a very real trap for the low IQ. This is the reality. Time tested by the patsy masters.
Dioramas optional.
"Just like a car crash. Just like a knife. My favourite weapon, is the look in your eyes!"
"...You've run out of lies.... There's a ton locked in your empty eyes... You've run out of lies...You've run out of time....Oh you have empty eyes... they tell me nothing, nothing but lies."
Seriously the best Ministry song.
They -- the Ashkanazi fauxjews in charge -- designed the IQ tests. They are also known to frequently cheat. (And lie, steal and kill).
Yeah sure man, it's all rigged by those you hate.....i'm sure you scored quite well on those faux tests and all that faux science and faux search engines and such....
And that's why IQ rhymes with Jew -- think about it -- it's all an illusion that you don't quite seem to subscribe to....but i don't particularly subscribe to truth, so it's all a wash.....
What about the correlation between IQ and the realization that this here forum is like all computerized and by simply clicking on the ABC icon one can check the spelling of one's post?
spell check requires no IQ just the derire to appear something other than a lazy lowlife
I noe what you meen.
spell check requires no IQ just the derire to appear something other than a lazy lowlife
Just curious. What is 'derire'? Or did you bother to spell check?
None so blind as those who will not see.
Downmod just for being Hamy
Conspiracy Theory of Gravity
Hamy you better be careful we're running out of trolls.
I am NOT a robo-trader.
Will someone please explain the implications here?
Thanks.
The house will always win ;-)
phys :-/
Zactly...if you can't hold it, you don't own it.
Short version: If you like silver then....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaMu6NldFCw
Regards,
The Syndicate
LOL... multiple dings for asking a quetion!
Some bitter folks around here.
BTFD?
Why would anyone want to Borrow To Finance Debt?
Sounds like counsel from Bernanke et al.
It's illegal and going on all the time which means it can only be government sanctioned theft and fraud. This one is red-handed and still nothing will happen.
These manipulated attacks on the price of alternative currencies, like silver, make them less desireable to own which keeps us muppets in our place. As others have already suggested here, allowing it to happen is how TPTB rewards the pillagers for helping to keep us muppets on the fiat monetary plantation. It's another form of financial repression. They will lose in the long run so just use these dips (gasps) to buy physical.
Kinda like the old British Spy-Sci-Fi TV series "The Prisoner". A giant 15-foot rubbery Orb constantly bounced around on patrol and immediately pounced and absorbed anybody trying to escape the outwardly genteel, but totalitarian, life on the island.
The "orb" was named Rover. He was originally supposed to be portrayed by a robot, but the robot broke down when they tried to run it on the beach at Poetmerion.
So Rover was played by a weather baloon.
I have actually been to Portmeirion, took a lot of photos of The Village. Really amazing if you happen to be hanging around in Wales. It's near where all the slate for pool tables comes from.
Thanks, Maggie, good get. I had forgotten balloon-boy had a name. "Rover" was indeed a weather balloon -- with a bad attitude. I was too young to identify with the unpleasant messages at the time but now we're living it.
The "Village", yes. And everyone was known by a number displayed on their jackets.
I remember the show 'The Prisoner' with the late Patrick McGoohan starring. The rubbery orb used to keep people in line was called 'Rover'.
Must see TVOntario interview w\ Patrick McGoohan: http://www.cultv.co.uk/mcgoohan.htm
Use the opportunity to BUY MORE PHYSICAL SILVER. Take advantage of what the cartel offers!
Physical silver, bitches.
I miss Trav screaming at us how we are all "bagholders" and "victims of silver pumpers" when we bought silver at $12 and $14 per ounce less than five years ago and now the spot price is $32+. All I can say is, if that makes me a "victim" and a "bagholder", then by all means give me more of that bagholding!
Oh yeah. What happened to Trav?
He was banned from ZeroHedge --- why, I do not know.
His last comments here that I can find were not out of line with most of all his others over the past year or more, but perhaps he really went over the line this time, and that (or those) comment(s) was/were deleted.
Hi Mr. A.
Glad he's gone. On another note... this article sickens me... it also tells me to keep buying.
Hey web bot, good to see you around again!
I wonder who Leo is having breakfast and lunch with lately?
If there were any justice in the world, it would be a 300 lb. cellmate with Nazi tattoos and backhair named Bubba who liked Leo's "real purdy mouth".
Ha Ha!!!
a little too big brother of tyler there, whats wrong with a little counter-contrarian cannon fodder? i think the commenters have done a good enough job of flaming him without having to call upon a moderator. if libertarian readers cant think for themselves anyways, whats the point?
Even libertarians do not have an endless toleration for pure bullshit --- nor should they.
Tyler's playpen - Tyler gets to say who plays.
You no like? Make your own.
weeeeaaaakest cover considering all the 'brag' around here...
might have got yanked on ZChat.
It was before zchat came online.
Final post: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/terminated-cbo-whistleblower-shares-her-fu...
"A special brand of stupid...", he says.
Indeed.
Good snooping, fuu.
RIP, Trav777.
We await the opportunity to grok your new avatar fully.
I think this was actually the last, a typo or something more interesting?
"that's how JPN rolls"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/here-why-fed-will-have-do-least-another-36...
http://www.zerohedge.com/search/user_comments?name=trav7777
haha, damn... you know how bad you gotta f**k up to get banned from ZH?
Well... there was our good friend Leo... but that was due to his level of stupidity... ha ha
Leo quit Fight Club, right before his solars tanked. Good timing if you ask me.
Good observation. He did quit...it got too hot.
Everyone should keep in mind the pumpers and dumpers...always...no matter what it is. They will come to you as phantoms in the night, promising quick riches...and then be gone with it...the riches ;-)
Actually, Leo did NOT voluntarily exit from here --- he was shown the ZeroHedge door and asked to leave. I have that from Tyler himself.
Your word is enough for me.
But you gotta admit...good times ;-)
'"Your word is good enough for me"
Well, that says a lot, considering.
Leo was positively an acrobat in walking the very thin line between rampant Keynesian cluelessness and outright malevolent trollishness. While it was fun to lambaste and mock his outrageously statist, pro-status-quo cowardice and shallow and short-sighted venality, in the end I was happy to see him finally go; I almost cannot imagine a WORSE fit with the prevailing ZeroHedge spirit and ethos that Leo, and why he was ever even invited to post his kneejerk pro-Establishment drivel here was an abiding mystery to me.
"...and why he was ever even invited to post his kneejerk pro-Establishment drivel here was an abiding mystery to me."
It was is at it should be in my view.
Let him/them throw it out there and have him/them thoroughly discredited.
As it should be.
I understand your argument nmewn, but are we not bombarded by more than enough such "mainstream", pro-status-quo propaganda from virtually EVERY OTHER media source already? In the middle of the desert, another handful of sand has very little marginal utility.
His threads were no longer constructive.
I understand...I vacillate between using their tactics...or not.
I've come to the conclusion I'll use theirs on them because they are dishonest in what they say.
Give me one Buffet opining on his pre-determined tax rate for government redistribution and I'll give ten examples of...
A Queens teacher who collects a $100,000 salary for doing nothing spends time in a Department of Education "rubber room" working on his law practice and managing 12 real-estate properties worth an estimated $7.8 million, The Post found.
Alan Rosenfeld hasn't set foot in a classroom for nearly a decade since he was accused in 2001 of making lewd comments to junior-high girls and "staring at their butts," yet the department still pays him handsomely for sitting on his own butt seven hours a day.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queens/school_creep_bQL5kouK80obW5MhZRyq7J#ixzz1poEhaLM1
Yes, but this is Fight Club. Will be a little less lively now.
I agree. If everybody thinks and acts the same way, what in the fuck is the purpose? Then you only get confirmation bias. That makes as bad as the lame stream media.
Agreed, I get plenty of group think other places. Trav was a racist yep, but some of his ideas had merit or at least provoked discussion on deeper topics. Hell, I may be next..
Again, the issue was NOT Trav's ideas, but his abuse of this forum --- in essence, his undermining of the overall expression of ideas in this forum. I wish more people here could understand the difference between suppressing ideas and free speech, and the pernicious attack on dialogue and exchange by those using their speech as abuse to divert and degrade the opportunity of others to use that forum to express their own ideas and thoughts.
Let me give you an example: there is currently a poster here by the handle of "AnAnonymous" who I consider to be little more than a prejudiced, bigoted, one-note anti-American troll --- and I have challenged many of his posts with that opinion of mine. Yet I have NOT ever called for his banning, nor even thought of it, as his level of posting, and the lengths of his comments, are well within the normal parameters for ZeroHedge posters. Now, if he started posting the EXACT same comments, but after EVERY other post by every other poster here, that would categorically be forum abuse, and I submit would self-evidently be grounds for banning. But it would not be the message or the ideas of his posts that would be in question --- merely his use (or abuse) of this forum.
Similarly, I believe that Trav frequently and grossly (but certainly not always, and definitely not initially) abused this forum, both in his absolutely rabid attacks on tmosley, as well as in his attacks on "silverbugs", often utterly swarming a thread with dozens and dozens of similarly insulting, abusive, egregiously hateful attacks on tmosley, myself and many other posters. This fundamentally had NOTHING to do with his ideas on silver or racism, though.
"...in essence, his undermining of the overall expression of ideas in this forum. I wish more people here could understand the difference between suppressing ideas and free speech, and the pernicious attack on dialogue and exchange by those using their speech as abuse to divert and degrade the opportunity of others to use that forum to express their own ideas and thoughts."
Hahahah! But that's your MO to the fucking letter! Perhaps it's time you put out a call to have yourself banned? You just might regain a modicum of credibility... not with me, of course.
And who is being the flaming and antagonistic fucktard here --- once again?
Hypocrisy, thy name is GoinNowhere.
Hey, I'm just trying to keep you honest. Don't worry, I have little expectation of success.
They plan on being stricter on ZHchat, as I understand it.
Because a bitchez would have an easier time making the harrassment case?
gone, bitchez.
Getting banned at ZH? That's amazing. He must have really gone off the deep end...
" .. must have gone off"?
Trav had already gone off the deep end long before his banning, and was approaching the bottom of the Marianas Trench of spittle-flecked insanity before the ax finally fell. Too bad about the banning, too --- I would have loved to see him reach rock-bottom and start boring through the mantle and downward towards the very core of racist and anti-silver hysteria.
I suddenly wonder if he didn't do something illegal in his personal life only to have his computer confiscated, and the authorities then contacted TD regarding his past posts, which are full of character evidence.
Seems like a stretch, but I don't see what else it could be, other than him going bonkers on an email to TD or something.
It is clearly puzzling because TD very rarely bans. It shows at least that the libertarian concept of free speech cannot be absolute and total and is therefore a hypocrisy.
Please cite a libertarian who has suggested that one can not administer one's own property. I'll wait.
Was the property in question earned, inherited, or outright stolen?
Been waiting awhile now...
Keep waiting. You asked a stupid question. Obviously stolen goods are not your property. Why are you wasting my time?
Hey, why so butthurt? I'm not so sure it's your time that you're afraid of me wasting...
Yep, that last one was painfully obvious, though not quite as transparent as your motivation for choosing it first and foremost and then acting as if it was the only option.
Honestly, you're doing great so far: still two more choices left.
Next.
Yes, I'm "butt hurt" because you have confused stolen booty with private property. Your obvious mistake is admittedly all my fault. I apologize.
next?
bitchez...
I didn't think about his computer priveledges. I figured he mouthed off to the wrong guy in a bar and got beat into a coma.
honestly, anyone thinks anymore that the line is so thin???
it starts now.
Say too much?
Think too out-of-the-box???
Watch what happens.
Trav is as much a unicorn as any of bernank's wet dreams...fulfilling a purpose as long as needed.
And then...
wait for it...
VAPORIZED!
(bitchez...)
Cheers, all!
-du_doo ;-)
"Too bad about the banning, too --- I would have loved to see him reach rock-bottom and start boring through the mantle and downward towards the very core of racist and anti-silver hysteria."
Wait a minute. You were the one trying to get everyone to report Trav using the report abuse email link.
Could that be the smoking gun?
fuu, I believe you are incorrect --- you are thinking of another poster, either as the ban-er or the ban-ee.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/first-few-days-2012-us-mint-sells-more-sil...
"Given the execrable record of personal attacks, constant diversion of discussion, and egregious trolling by this individual, I am going to ask of the other members here something that I have never done before: please petition Tyler to ban this hate-filled, malicious troll, as I have just done myself.
You can contact Tyler, and report Trav7777's constant and ongoing abuse of this forum, at abuse@zerohedge.com."
Shocked! Shocked I am!
pwnd
And yet, ultimately vindicated by Tyler's own ultimate action in the matter.
I don't understand where this intellectually bankrupt, cowardly moral relativism has come from wherein ANY and all gross violations of decency, and damaging and destructive, purposeful diversionary trolling, comes to be defended by the likes of you as "free speech" --- even aside from the fact that this forum is NOT public property nor a public domain, but subject purely to the administration of Tyler(s).
When a child is screaming his head off and throwing a tantrum in church, is it logical to just ignore it and justify that inaction as "protecting the free speech rights" of said child?
"comes to be defended by the likes of you as "free speech" --- even aside from the fact that this forum is NOT public property nor a public domain, but subject purely to the administration of Tyler(s)."
Who defends it as such? The site is Tyler's property to do as he/she sees fit, no argument. That said, how were you personally injured? It is the reflex you demonstate, to silence "hateful speech" that is a cancer growing throughout society. I was taught many years ago that upon encountering ideas with which I vehemently disagreed, to either repudiate the idea as defective or to simply change the channel, turn the page.
What was so far beyond the pale that you felt compelled to impose your own moral indignation?
One need not be so tolerant that they tolerate intolerance.
This is fight club, but if you will recall, even Fight Club had rules.
@Akak - "live by the sword, die by the sword"
"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." ~ Jesus (Mat 12:36-37)
Tmos, that first sentence reads like it was written by Alvin Joiner,
" I heard you like 'in' tolerance, so I took some tolerance and put it in a comment that was intolerant to me".
... shit,those words have just lost all meaning....
"I don't understand where this intellectually bankrupt, cowardly moral relativism has come from wherein ANY and all gross violations of decency, and damaging and destructive, purposeful diversionary trolling, comes to be defended by the likes of you as "free speech""
You're going to make me go there again?
In the same thread I linked to earlier I compiled some of your comments. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/first-few-days-2012-us-mint-sells-more-sil...
Please explain to the group why it was ok for you to say these things but it was a bannable offense for trav?
JUst for fun:
"You need to kill yourself, now.
Eugenics: it's not just for Nazis anymore." Akak - Silverbug - 1/6/2012
Still waiting.
Saved me the trouble of looking for it. I disagree completely with banning Trav. His was a bit off the wall at times but he did make us look at some of the unpleasant realities of the world. And his posts made me laugh, if nothing else.
Akak, you and I disagree on some things, and agree on others, but I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with it. When I saw you make that post calling for others to join you in your tantrum, I lost some respect.
Let's face it, some of the dunderheads around here actually distract from the conversation.
Looks like trav wasn't the only one banned. So is Robo and SIewie. Is Hamy next?
Robo??? LOL. So the CNBC caucus is being shut down?
I liked Robo. It was funny to see everybody get their panties in a wad.
I haven't seen any indication that RobotTrader has been banned, or anyone else recently for that matter aside from Trav7777.
How many posters have been banned in the last two years on ZeroHedge? Eight? Ten? It is probably not more than that. Is that REALLY so many, in a virtually unmoderated forum? Do some of you actually believe that there is NOTHING that a malicious poster not here in good faith could do that would justify their banning?
"malicious poster"
Says you, the commisar declares it malicous and therefore it is malicious. In the event Tyler hires you as the first moderator I will take note. In the meantime, shove the righteous indignation up your easily chapped arse.
And on the right wing the all star fluffer CA leaps in pumping furiously on a last ditch thread-jack ploy, sweat and long strands of DNA streaming from his greasy fists! ooooh, he fails miserably.
Wipe the 'kak off your chin and sit down.
I don't know what 'kak is. It's beyond my experience but apparently not beyond yours.
Wow, I knew you were a blunt instrument but I didn't think you were that thick.
So you are flat-out stating that malicious posters and online trolls do NOT exist, is that it?
Perhaps I have a slightly different perspective on all this than some of you, as I was formerly an active member of three different online forums that were DESTROYED by trolls and the lack of moderation --- destroyed, as in completely ceased to function. In one of those cases, the forum was killed by ONE utterly determined and extremely skillful troll. I am most definitely NOT saying that anything like that is happening here, but what I AM saying is that there can be and are SOME behaviors (having NOTHING to do with any particular ideas or thoughts) that are simply not tolerable in a forum that claims to foster the free exchange of ideas. Is that even really debateable?
akak didn't ban him. Tyler did. If you don't like it, take it up with him. akak just thinkgs that it was justified.
I don't know the reasoning behind it, though if this were my forum, I certainly wouldn't be nearly so tolerant as Tyler has been. I don't know of anywhere that is.
"I certainly wouldn't be nearly so tolerant as Tyler has been. I don't know of anywhere that is."
And that is why we all arrived here in the first place.
Why would/should zh try to be like 'anywhere else?' The fact that it isn't is what makes it CUTTING EDGE.
The most tolerant is usually the most REAL.
So would your life feel more real to you if you tolerated someone entering your home and peeing on your furniture? akak has made the point that toleration of anything and everything is not a virtue but rather a vice. He's right.
This is an internet forum, dude. Not my home, nor my toilet. This is where we share thoughts freely, exchange ideas with no fear of recourse other than a verbal beatdown.
You can TRY to link political and financial idea tolerance to pissing on a couch. But NO ONE is destroying my property here. This isn't even my property.
I tell ya, some of you fuckers ABSOLUTELY AMAZE ME.
This is Tyler's place of business.
?
"This is not my home"
"This isn't even my property"
"Tylers can do whatever they want"
"This is Tylers place of business"
Fits quite nicely, doesn't it. Seemed redundant though.. mentioned and heavily implied throughout the thread. Tylers right over his property... I mean its Ray Charles.
But since we agree that this is not my urine stained couch...
You shouldn't hide your opinion on this topic behind Tylers decisions.. especially when you stick out like a sore thumb.
As our colleague previously mentioned... "I don't know anyone who would have (kept Trav around this long)"
- agree with the decision or not... It IS just one of the many reasons this site is credible and relevant.. A front line in this mediawebz 'war on truth.'
While your property'd be filled with all those you DIDN'T boot for being a FLAMING LIBERAL OR RACIST.. YET.
Akak sure as hell isn't 'right' on this. And (to his credit) he has already admitted that. In light of this, one has to wonder why you are still bothering to prop him up.
But if you actually believe what you're writing, then, by his own reasoning and yours, you should both be screaming for his removal from this site.
Either that or it's just a double standard that you two are pushing:
If I agree with someone they have license to say whatever they want no matter how disruptive, rude or banal, but if I disagree then they're wiping their hands on my curtains and farting on my couch doilies, or whatever.
When you agree that Tyler has jurisdiction over your property then perhaps Tyler will give you oversight of his property. But don't hold your breath.
So, as I was saying: you're in favour of a double standard then, just so long as it pumps your nag. Weeeeeeeeak.
My thoughts are my property, how long has tyler owned yours?
http://www.zerohedge.com/users/robottrader
WonderDawg, you need to think deeper on this matter --- I STRONGLY believe that you and others are not looking at what was and is really the issue here.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that the expression of thougts and ideas should not be banned. However, the behavior in which Trav and a small but overly influential handful of others often if not routinely engaged in had NOTHING to do with the expression of ideas, but in diversionary undermining of exchange and dialogue, personal attacks and childish antics that made a mockery of this forum itself. My calling for Trav's banning --- and yes, I utterly and completely stand by it, now as I did then ---- was made not because of Trav's ideas, but because of his rabid and purposeful destruction of the functioning of this forum as a venue for the expression of the very thoughts and ideas which you claim to defend.
Again, I will give you the analogy of the child screaming in church --- one does NOT tolerate such behavior, and the child must be removed if every other avenue to silence them should fail, or the entire reason for that gathering is disrupted if not destroyed. Similarly, would somebody mindlessly or maliciously screaming at you outside your house throughout the night be defended under the concept of "free speech"?
Honesty, I have been over this same ground again and again, and I utterly fail to understand the supine and submissive attitude that a troll or a demonstrated disruptor should be permitted to carry on under some miscontrued and misapplied theory of "free speech".
You people who defend such action mystify me, and I must say I cannot respect your position on this particular subject at all. It is just more refusal to confront wrong, such as is so prevalent in our society today.
Akak, you gotta at least backpedal on a different thread. I mean, shit you're going so fast you should be in the fucking circus!
"My calling for Trav's banning --- and yes, I utterly and completely stand by it, now as I did then..."
"fuu, I believe you are incorrect --- you are thinking of another poster"
Can you say 'disingenuous'? I knew you could. I mean, it's either that or thick as a plank.
Yes, I was wrong here --- so shall I mount the scaffold, or place my neck under the guillotine blade? Or would being racked, drawn and quartered fit my monstrous and outrageous crime?
I would aver that being subject, even briefly, to your smug, self-righteous crowing is punishment enough in this case.