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CDU's Michael Fuchs "Greece Cannot Be Saved, That Is Simple Mathematics"

Tyler Durden's picture


Since it has now become the norm to spread myth, fairy tales and magic during the week, only to collapse the wave function of an insolvent "developed world" with a double dose of reality during the weekend when markets are conveniently closed (recall the Draghi in a Box phenomenon) only to repeat it all again the coming week, here is some more truth which may force Citi to hike its estimate of Greece leaving the Eurozone from 90% to 110% (or about how much of QE3 is now priced into the market): "Greece cannot be saved, that is simple mathematics," Michael Fuchs, deputy leader of the parliamentary group of Merkel's Christian Democrats and their Bavarian sister party told weekly business magazine Wirtschaftswoche." Indeed, truth hurts, especially when accompanied by math. Which sadly is the problem these days in a world where math and surreality can no longer coexist. And sadly, in the absence of money growing trees, where one can create wealth out of thin air, not fiat dilution, disappointments such as these will only propagate until the game (over) theoretical equilibrium we discussed yesterday has no choice but to finally make its appearance.

"Greece cannot be saved, that is simple mathematics," Michael Fuchs, deputy leader of the parliamentary group of Merkel's Christian Democrats and their Bavarian sister party told weekly business magazine Wirtschaftswoche.


"The government has neither the will nor the means to implement reforms," he said.


Hermann Otto Solms, a financial affairs expert for the FDP, also underlined in an interview with Wirtschaftswoche that should inspectors from the so-called troika criticise Athens's progress there should be no new aid for Greece, and it would have no choice but to leave the single currency.


Roesler ruffled feathers last weekend when he told a German broadcaster that a Greek euro zone exit was no longer a taboo for experts and had lost "its fear factor." A party colleague branded his remarks "reckless."


In his interview with OZ Roesler dismissed widespread criticism of his stance both from Athens and within his party.


"In my ministry we've seen that the Greek government has been unable to implement very much."


His comments come amid a growing chorus of voices within Merkel's centre-right coalition that insist there can be no new aid for Greece and that a Greek exit could be imminent.

To summarize: euphoria meets despair, as everyone from one side of the stock market ship scrambles to get to the other, and as the amplitudes of market moves become larger and larger, thanks entirely to central bankers destructive influence on capital allocation, until finally one day the entire market drops to below zero, which as the Fed itself was kind enough to tell us it would have been in 2009 if it wasn't for the Fed itself.


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Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:23 | Link to Comment TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

Fuchin' A right!

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:41 | Link to Comment veyron
veyron's picture

The sheer number of analysts which are now talking the bear case suggests to me that there may be a way out of this mess ...

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:00 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

There is no country that can survive central banking, that is simple mathematics

fixed it 

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:54 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

But also Greece has no history of prospering in the recent era (common era). This is not about sucking it up; it's about completely retooling attitudes and societal norms. Tell us how that works out.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 16:34 | Link to Comment Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

Hotels et al are about 25% full this peak season. There is no money. 

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 20:02 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

 Let me help you out here. The problem is the corrupt Bankers/Politicians that are sucking all of the wealth out of their country. They need to boot the sons of bitches out and either print their own godamned money or go to a Gold Standard, that includes trade and barter.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:01 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



The SHTF in Greece right after the Germans are done vacationing.  Sunbathing amidst rioters loses some of its allure.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:23 | Link to Comment One Ton Lady
One Ton Lady's picture

The New Dawn party knows what needs to be done. They are ready to kick ass and take names.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 20:04 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

U fucking Cunt troll

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:10 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

There may be a way out of this mess?
Give me a break. If there was don't you think the USA would have applied it for herself as well?
Since when does a debt fuelled spending orgy have a painless way out for either the borrower or lender?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:40 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 75–77

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 13:49 | Link to Comment earleflorida
earleflorida's picture


Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:52 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Although this may be an appealing quote, one should be careful to recall the story. 

Polonius was a fool who made every fatal mistake he ever had the opportunity to make, and was responsible for the tragedy that is the climax of Hamlet.

On the other hand, fuck Shakespeare.  A pop-culture icon who achieved fame rewriting others' stories and presenting them for the amusement of his audience.  Such wisdom can easily be found in the average Three's Company script if you care to look.  Everyone always knew Larry wasn't good for that $50 he wanted to borrow from Jack.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 20:08 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

The lenders are the first sons of bitches we're going to aim at when the shooting starts. They're at the very top of the good/evil scale right next to Shalom

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:29 | Link to Comment Elmer Fudd
Elmer Fudd's picture

Oh really? What a revelation,  Print or die, make up your f*ng mind already.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:23 | Link to Comment One Ton Lady
One Ton Lady's picture

Print or die?  Sounds like Perl programming.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:55 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

"Print or die" is using the wrong Boolean term. I think they meant "and"

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:07 | Link to Comment THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

1. Print or die.

2. Print and die.

3. Die and dead.

I think that about rounds out the central banking syllogism.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:47 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

So does that mean next time around we will overshoot zero and they will be paying to have folks take equities off their hands?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 18:42 | Link to Comment monkeyshine
monkeyshine's picture

Well, If money is debt then that one potential outcome isn't it?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 20:12 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Money is created as credit, not debt. Newly printed money is a tax on existing money, and does not need a tax to pay it back. A Banker should never be allowed to just print money, Bankers are the most dishonest people in the world and should all be arrested and sentenced to life without parole.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:32 | Link to Comment Tinky
Tinky's picture

Loved this (via Calculated Risk):


Here was Lou Barnes reaction [to Draghi's latest]:

Sentiment turned yesterday on ECB President Mario Draghi's "...The ECB is ready to do whatever it takes to preserve the euro. Believe me, it will be enough." He went on to announce his plans to date Jennifer Lopez tonight, Kim Bassinger tomorrow, and win the decathlon gold next week. 

If a central bank has to promise to preserve something, odds are high that it is already dead. This is the talk of 0-10 football coaches. Imagine if an American Fed Chair said he would "preserve the dollar." Not defend its value versus other currencies; not prevent inflation or deflation, but preserve its existence? Elbow the women and children out of the lifeboats.



Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:22 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

well if we think in terms of the word "preserve" i does in many ways mean "you're dead already." hence "the fight is with the Germans" is it not...that WANTS a strong euro, no? And if we were to continue down this path CB Draghi also adds the rejoinder "believe me"...which is interesting because "it is a matter of faith" it would be appear that "upon death this thing is preserved." And interestingly...he finishes with "it" will be enough. What will be enough exactly? The way we kill it? And what does he mean by "enough" exactly? "Just enough so that it crushes you phuckers in the North...but not so much to hurt our recovery in the South"? I'm probably just reading into the words too much again. I'm sure this is all he meant:

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Rusticus
Rusticus's picture

"The ECB is ready to do whatever it takes to preserve the euro."


Museum curators will be tasked to preserve the Euro ... the display cases of various Euro denominations to include; humidity/temperature control and the ironic "please do not touch" signs. 

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:57 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

I think the Euro will continue to trade, but only on Ebay.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 22:44 | Link to Comment Weyland_Yutani
Weyland_Yutani's picture

They will need a lot of formaldehyd to preserve the Euro.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture

Imagine if an American Fed Chair said he would "preserve the dollar." 

I picture jars of Formaldehyde...

USD; eventually a museum exhibit.

Edit>/  Oh well, by the time I posted this, I see everyone's thnking is in the same gutter...

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:33 | Link to Comment pasmurf
pasmurf's picture

What the Fuch Michael? when math doesn't add up, print, spread rumors lie, and at last resort, get the Fed to feel sorry for the EU dollar liquidity issues.  Problem solved eh?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:34 | Link to Comment Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Greece does not have a Central Bank and may join Iceland in giving a one finger salute to the private bank cartel families. That will be wonderful. I just finished reading Predator Nation by Charles Ferguson.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:58 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The Bank of Greece which is the central bank of Greece, has its shares traded on the Athens Stock Exchange. The government owns under 10% and the rest of the owners are unknown due to an exemption under the original charter imposed by the Brits in the late 20's.

The plan going forward will be to asset strip Greece and have multinationals then move in as messiahs to run everything as an act of "benevolence".

What Fuchs says has already been said by a number of people for over two years. The last two or so years have simply been used to prop up the rancid banking system of Europe, to further indebt nations and to break the will of the people across Europe whilst enriching those in the know.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:45 | Link to Comment TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Practically nobody can be "saved" within the Eurozone. Hope Italy goes out as soon as possible, Italy first just because half my family is suffering in Italy. Hope Greece gets out quickly too, because of my grec friends. Hope they default and leave all the fucking banksters fail as it's required to end this agony. Hope we all go back to real economy and abbandon the perversion of this financial "casino".

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Off topic, I just read an article about how the Arg's buy dollars and trade property in dollars(which were recently practically banned) to stave off their inflation.  The Arg Govt wants dollars to stay in the country to safeguard their central bank's international reserves.  I study countries that have gone thru a financial collapse to see how they handle the aftermath.  I don't understand why they continue to have a debt crisis and such high inflation(20-25%/yr), any thoughts?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:45 | Link to Comment TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Argentina doesn't have any debt crisis. State sovereing debt is around 17% of GPD (private sector ext. debt not included). Just trying not to fall again under the hand of those nice guys from international finance. Moreover, Europe is desperately calling for fresh money from all their firms in South America, especially banks, so mesures are being taken to avoid the leak (meaning: Brasil, Argentina and others to avoid them to take our savings away as they did in the past so freely). Too many so eager for real assets backed liquidity ...

Basicaly trying to prevent South America to fall again into a crisis when LAmerican fundamentals (including Central Bank collateral/reserves) are all right, just to control the EZ fever for a few minutes while we all know it's gonna go up as long as they try to keep the Euro alive.

If out savings are in national currencies and cannot easily be converted into euros and/or US dollar robbery becomes harder.

It's hard work, anyway. You all know what kind of weapons they handle.

(Forgive my poor English)

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 15:22 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Your English is fine.  I have a figure of 44.2 % debt to GDP for 2012, but it seems to be improving

I understand Argentina is off to the printing presses again as the Govt. tries to stimulate consumer spending and job growth. Sounds like more Keynesian madness. This must be what is causing the recent spike in inflation.

The way I see it, solving these debt-to-GDP problems without printing money requires one of two things. Cutting spending to reduce debt or encouraging growth to increase gross domestic product. My point is that defaulting and restructuring debt is not going to solve the problem if the system currently in place is unsustainable.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 16:06 | Link to Comment TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

"My point is that defaulting and restructuring debt is not going to solve the problem if the system currently in place is unsustainable."


But for the information about Argentina, you better believe me as an italo-argentinean free professional who runs her own business and has many employees (far more than a hundred) I'm able to pay every month. Data on corporative media and corporate institutions isn't accurate, as you know. Moreoften it's propaganda or counter-information. As Argentina defaulted we're not an example to be shown off, considering the present west scenario up north.

A teacher working 20 hours a week in highschool, with 10 years of service, gets 1000 USD; a truck driver 1800 minimum (more like 2400). Best meat u can find it's about 10-12 USD per kilo (the unit we use); milk 0,7-1 USD x lit., chicken 5-6 USD x kilo. Schols and Universities are for free (private school is people's choice); public health system is working fine except in Buenos Aires City, a very big over-populated megalopoly (again, u can choose private services), we're doing fine and many people is being rescued from the misery they were pushed into in the 90ties and/or was part of structural poverty. Unemplyment is around 8%.

Argentina, as other countries in South America, is self-sufficient in food, energy, water, minerals...

Not so bad taking the world picture into account. But we're not alone and in my opinion the system you're talking about won't live South America be (predators are always hungry). So I must agree with you. If we've been doing well since the default, we're definitely gonna be affected by the huge financial mess and the structural problems of USA and Europe. Because as many here at ZH say (and it's known all over the world), there is no free market out there (in which Argentina would keep performing perfectly), but a bunch of speculators and a very disfunctional élite that distort each and every element of economy by any means (including conquest wars) for they extraordinary and exclusive profit.

Too complex to develop in a comment but I guess you can understand my point of view.


Sat, 07/28/2012 - 16:47 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Many ZH readers are free market libertarian minded people who believe in sound money and small Govt.  The exact opposite of what they are doing in Argentina.  Good luck.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 16:57 | Link to Comment TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Thanks. Do not mistaken: Argentina isn't socialist.

We also believe in sound money but not above people. We kind of humanists-capitalists.

I can't be happy if most of the people I'm sorrounded by is starving. That's why I'm libertarian, ok, but I'm willing to support a gvt that takes care of those unable (for a number of possible reasons) to self sustainability.

You whoudn't shoot them out,  would you?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Argentina isn't socialist? :)  FYI, Free university education and free healthcare to ALL is very socialist.   The top 17 Universities in the entire World are in the USA for a reason.  You can't be a little libertarian like you can't be a little pregnant.  I not going to convince you but know that you're 1 step from Venezuela.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 03:57 | Link to Comment TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

The USA are "top ten" in many other issues, as the Roman Empire used to be for better and worse. I'd rather prefer to drop the matter. About socialism: There isn't such a thing as "little socialism" either. As a matter of fact, socialism exists only in theory; it was never implemented as a paradigm by any State. Following your argument we must believe England is socialist too because of his public hospitals.

On the other hand, we don't need to convince each other about anything. I think Humanity needs to evolve in order to be able to improve. We haven't done any better for thousand of years now. Just have more sophisticated tools to do the same again and again.


Sun, 07/29/2012 - 16:58 | Link to Comment delacroix
delacroix's picture

I thought argentina began importing energy recently?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 22:22 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Everything (or close to it), gets traded for worthless pieces of paper, until the collapse comes.  Then, no one (or very few), have the wherewithal to create anything of value (i.e., NO capital left).  Finally, the idjuts in charge do the same thing they've always done:  Print more Munny.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:46 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture



Ah fuck it.



Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:13 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

What is taking that hundredth monkey so godamned long?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:30 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Porn most likely.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:49 | Link to Comment Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Greece can't be saved, The Euro-zone can't be saved, and the EURO can't be saved.

California can't be saved, The North American Free Trade Zone can't be saved, and the US Dollar can't be saved.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:16 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I for one don't want to be saved. Their attempts at saving me and the system since the GFC set in, have been killing me. Please no more.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:28 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I agree. When a govt official or central banker utters the word "saved", what they mean is "save the status quo so I can continue my life of power and luxury". Unfortunately, we (the unwashed masses) are collectively such dumb fucks who can't think critically for ourselves that we buy into the idea that our leaders must "do something" to "save" us from a fate worse than a fate worse than death.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:49 | Link to Comment milanitaly
milanitaly's picture

I suggest to read also Karl Lamers (Cdu). I deem that we will listen less nein in the future.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:59 | Link to Comment Haager
Haager's picture

Less nein stands equivalent for less value. Do you feel comfortable with less value?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:52 | Link to Comment t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

Simply revise the formula.  Problem solved. 

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 10:51 | Link to Comment Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Where do we all meet to party at the point in time when the Euro breaks apart?

Suggestion: In front of the ECB in Frankfurt. I will bring 1000 liters beer!

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:05 | Link to Comment TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

U can count on me. I'll bring my best tango dancing shoes.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:01 | Link to Comment Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

Say it ain't so!  Did he really say imminent?


And do algo's work on weekends or do they just skip those headlines?  This is making my float the market until Wednesday idea a little more difficult to envision.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:05 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

When the Greeks start getting Pension checks that can't buy a weeks worth of food things are going to get ugly fast. That is the problem with Greece leaving the Euro. Unless of course others follow her out adding more "ballast" to their new currencies. Euro cleaning time....Greece Spain Portual....maybe Italy?  Well it was fun while it lasted.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:20 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

You are spot on Burningfuld. When the Greeks are confonted with starvation they will sell their 4000 year old birthrights for a piece of bread. Break the will of the Greeks and the rest of Europe will fold very quickly.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:10 | Link to Comment pain_and_soros
pain_and_soros's picture

Michael tells Greece to Fuchs off....

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:25 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

For Fuchs sake. Don't you realise that the pain will work both ways?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:42 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

when a party hack speaks...

...tyler listens!

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:18 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

Could be, possibly, perhaps, at the right juncture, in the fullness of time.....Greece might leave the EU...imminently.




/polite golf clap

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:38 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Greek Islands and Greek gold reserves will soon by "Nationalized" by Brussells.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:35 | Link to Comment Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Of course it is simple mathematics. Lowering their borrowing costs from around to 25% to 5% is impossible. Besides, they will start spending again. SOCIALISM KILLS!

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:46 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture


fixed it for you

Also, your 5% and 25% figures need readjusted to .0005% and .0025%

fixed that for you too

Now stop your Trolling and get a real job you spineless vampire

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 13:40 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

You do realize that we are in the current mess because of socialist policies right?  You do understand that it was the left that was lobbing for the tax and spend and borrow and spend policies that are collapsing all around us right?  You do understand that it was the politicians that created the financial casino by reapealling the Glass-Steagal act that created the casino in the first place, and now they are shocked, SHOCKED that the system they set up is full of gamblers.  And then they bail them out every time they make a losing bet.  But yeah, socialism.  Look around you, WE HAVE SOCIALISM.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:00 | Link to Comment earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

Socialism is but one, Potemkin`village from Communism!

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:40 | Link to Comment wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

The bad news: the fiat ponzi is only then REALLY REALLY over when fiat does no longer buy oil. In between now an then I am afraid, there is still a lot of military and war and 1984.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Neethgie
Neethgie's picture

I wanna be clear, i have respect for the germans here, no i am not trolling. We know for a fact, that the fiat system works until it starts getting debased mindlessly ala the bernank, germany is not willing to see this happen, now ok we know they have the ez as their bitchezz, but aside from that, if germany was the us government wed all be a damn sight happier, they would say no bernank stop printing we are gonna fix this deficit.

Germany is unpopular but it is taking measures people on here would like to see applied elsewhere, telling draghi not to print is only prudent.


Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:37 | Link to Comment bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Germany already 'debased mindlessly' and 'printed' when they let the German banks lever up and create a credit bubble at 60-to-1 leverage.

It is too late for Germany, too, and the German elite knows that. Euro-zone implosion means German bank implosion.

The German 'we are hard money' show, is just that, a show ... after a likely 'systemic crisis' episode in the next few weeks or months - Greek exiting the euro a good candidate, leading to a 'surprise' sudden near-collapse of the whole euro-zone banking system - Germans will agree to print.

It is already in the cards.

As Jim Sinclair said years ago: 'QE to infinity' ...

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:50 | Link to Comment km4
km4's picture

Spain's chances of avoiding intensive care-a full bail-out-are receding to near vanishing-point

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:50 | Link to Comment Neethgie
Neethgie's picture

oh and isnt the prevailing attitude among wall street types, Dont let math get in the way of a good rally?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 11:50 | Link to Comment Neethgie
Neethgie's picture

oh and isnt the prevailing attitude among wall street types, Dont let math get in the way of a good rally?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:09 | Link to Comment IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

yes greece is screwed





Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:10 | Link to Comment Duke of Con Dao
Duke of Con Dao's picture

bring on the Demolition Derby, yet again!

YouTube - Euro Roadkill of 2012: GREECE

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:21 | Link to Comment Marley
Marley's picture

"in the absence of money growing trees, where one can create wealth out of thin air"

Easy, first you make money by selling fecal matter to municipalities with the contention that it supports growth then profit from the bet that the fecal matter will stink.  Failure of municipality is icing on the cake because you can blame it on the greedy socialist.

Your money, their harvest with an Austrian stype scythe:

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:06 | Link to Comment earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

The 'Fed's' honey wagon?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:48 | Link to Comment ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

So, once Schrodinger's box was opened, (Greece) was DEAD!


All the magical thinking and money printing couldn't change IT's wave function.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:52 | Link to Comment Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Greece is not completly fucked until the gold is relocated.

What the hell will they base the drachma on then?

A "promise to pay"?

That sounds familiar.


Sat, 07/28/2012 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Weyland_Yutani
Weyland_Yutani's picture

Greece could back their currency with olives. That could work ;)

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 13:12 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Draghi must have read Game Of Thrones...

"That which is dead cannot die."

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment Marco
Marco's picture

Greece can not be saved ... but a bank run cascading till all Euros are deposited in German banks won't just destroy the Euro, it will destroy the entire EU.

Depositors can be saved ... and whether they morally deserve to be is entirely besides the point, the alternative is monetary chaos on a scope only seen in countries with hyperinflation ... playing out throughout all of Europe with the exception of Germany.

Even if we decide to get rid of the Euro entirely after this, the depositors in Greece still have to be saved (fuck the banks and bond holders though).

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:21 | Link to Comment Cali42
Cali42's picture

Some quotes by Thomas Jefferson for perspective:

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

Most bad government has grown out of too much government.

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.

To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.

I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. (Back then!)

Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

And again:

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:45 | Link to Comment SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture

Irish Poem time again:


A Kraut politician named Fuchs,

Said fiat dilution just sucks.

The Greeks, they are screwed

Blu-ed and tattooed,

Und der Banks kan nicht print enough bucks.


Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:50 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Free Greece from banker occupation.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

It seems to me that all this talk about "saving" Greece is some kind of code-word for "protecting Eurozone banks."

It sounds scary to hear "Greece can't be saved," but if you translate that into "Eurozone banks are going to take some massive losses," suddenly it sounds like GOOD THING.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 15:22 | Link to Comment Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

Lehman 2.0 approaches. Draghi puts on his best show...stay tuned.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 15:43 | Link to Comment smart girl
smart girl's picture

"We worry European officials are not prepared to take any key decisions in the weeks ahead: not about Greece, Spain, or the ESM." Marc Chandler


Sat, 07/28/2012 - 16:04 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Market drops below 0 = we start paying the market?

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 16:41 | Link to Comment sunny
sunny's picture

Yeah, but what if Draghi prints several trillion euros and floods the banks and other pockets.  That would be a mighty kick down a long road, there would be happiness and joy in the markets for months.  Don't sweat the laws forbidding it, laws don't seem to matter much do they.  And don't tell me that Germany won't allow it as it goes against their constitution.  Plan on Germany, Finland and that group to whine, bitch, piss, moan and cave when push comes to shove.

The simple fact is that folks have been predicting the collapse of Greece and indeed of all of euroland for some time and it still keeps chugging along, doesn't it.  

I think it an incredible shame, but we are in a new paradigm, and this time really is different.  NO MORE CORRECTIONS UNTIL THE BOND VIGILANTIES TAKE THE PRESSES AWAY.  Until then, it's just markets grinding higher and higher.


Sat, 07/28/2012 - 19:29 | Link to Comment octafinance
octafinance's picture

What if he can't ? What if ECB's balance sheet is already 37 times leveraged? What if after a 1 trillion more, the markets know that soon haircuts on debt will wipe-out their capital and German taxpayers will have to pay for the new ECB ? What if people have too much faith in central banks but CBs financial power is also exausted, in the same way as sovereigns and banks? Have you though about a minute why exactly FED is not printing a trillion on every meeting? Could it be that ECB has only more move or not even one?

Also the fact that Greece did not collapse is not true as its in great depression. The fact that it did not exit yet, does not mean it won't. Same as home prices in 2007...

I tell you, one day people will bet on central banks and will lose a lot of money. Do you think investing is so simple? Once CB prints money you invest and become rich ? Everytime? I wish you good luck.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 22:37 | Link to Comment hedgehog9999
hedgehog9999's picture

Mathematics???? give me a break, all you need is grade 8 arithmetic, maybe even grade 7!!!!!

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 09:09 | Link to Comment monad
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 03:23 | Link to Comment GMan_
GMan_'s picture

We just need Frau Merkel to come on TV Sunday night saying NEIN NEIN and then we'll have SPX to 1330 Monday morning. Super Mario, you just put yourself in an even more difficult situation. Congrats my friend. 

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 09:09 | Link to Comment monad
monad's picture

Merkel is Bilderberg

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

some clown was on MSM early last week saying 'buy spanish bonds'.  well - if you had a one day holding period, he was right.  he had inside info, and at the time, i laughed.  now i'm crying.  so - let me get it right this time.  buy spanish bonds, AND french and italian also!!!  this stuff yields and is cheap!


Sun, 07/29/2012 - 16:49 | Link to Comment lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

oh.  and i forgot.  reits and subprime too.  and home builders.  the bottom is in.  and did i miss banks?



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