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Central Bank Attempt To Sucker In Retail Investors Back Into Stocks Has Failed

Tyler Durden's picture


In what should come as no surprise to anyone who has a frontal lobe, yet will come as a total shock to the central planners of the world and their media marionettes, the latest attempt to sucker in retail investors courtesy of a completely artificial 20% stock market ramp over the past 4 months driven entirely by the global liquidity tsunami discussed extensively here in past weeks and months, has suffered a massive failure. Exhibit 1 and only: as ICI shows today, following what is now a 20% ramp in the stock market, not only have retail investors continued to pull out cash from domestic equity mutual funds (about $66 billion since the recent lows in October, the bulk of which has gone into bonds and hard commodities), but the week of February 29, when the market peaked so far in 2012, saw the biggest weekly outflow of 2012 to date, at -$3 billion. Alas, this means that the traditional happy ending for the authoritarian regime, whereby stocks get offloaded from Primary Dealers, and GETCO's subsidiaries, to the retail investor, is not coming, and soon the scramble for the exits among the so-called "smart money" will be a sight to behold.

The Globe and Mail has some observations on just this:

Retail investors, after gutting it out through years of awful returns, have finally fled. In a normal market, retail participation – Mr. and Mrs. Public trading their personal accounts – should be about 20 per cent. That plunged in November and December, traders say.


It could be that Canadian investors suddenly and finally tired of the relentless volatility, or the long-term returns that have barely cracked positive territory.


Perhaps the most likely candidate for the drop-off is a decline in activity by the same high-frequency traders who helped boost volumes so dramatically in the preceding few years, and who now constitute roughly a third of the market by many estimates. So-called HFTs were drawn to Canada by incentives from markets such as the TSX, and by the opportunity to trade against investors big and small who weren’t wise to their tricks.

The same HFT that Zero Hedge dedicated the early days of its existence into exposing for the massive market, volume, and liquidity manipulating and momentum perpetuating sham it is now perceived by everyone.

As for HFT, after destroying any semblance of a rational market, the participants have finally turned on each other, in the same cannibalization that we had been warning for the past 3 years. In fact, Traders Magazine has dedicated its entire cover story "Fear Factor" to precisely this:

On Wall Street, risk is suddenly a four-letter word. Retail investors can't stomach it. Pension plan sponsors are allocating away from it.


That's bad news for stocks. Volume has been dropping almost nonstop for three years and shows no signs of improvement. The situation is worse than it was following the crash of 2000. It's worse than it was after the crash of 1987. Fearful of the future and still wincing from 2008, investors are moving funds into bonds, commodities, cash, private equity, hedge funds and even foreign securities-anything but U.S. stocks.


"Our bread and butter is the retail investor," Scott Wren, a senior equity strategist at Wells Fargo Advisors, one of the country's four largest retail brokerages, told Bloomberg Radio recently. "They're not jumping into the market. They're not chasing it. Those who have been around for a little bit have been probably burned twice here in the last 10 years or so. They're definitely gun-shy. They're not believers. I'm not sure what it's going to take to get them back in the market."

Good work you central planning idiots and 21 year old math PhDs - you finally succeeded in terminally and completely breaking the market.


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Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:49 | 2233677 toothpicker
toothpicker's picture


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:52 | 2233690 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If a TBTF-zombified entiy or a stuffed-to-the-gills-with-"stocks" hedge fund wants to sell a tree in the forest, but no one is there to buy it, is there a market maker, and what's the tree worth?



... I screwed that up horribly.


I will fix it. Give me a few.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:58 | 2233726 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

fukin brilliant

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:06 | 2233760 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Scared beats dumb!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:40 | 2233872 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture


Thu, 03/08/2012 - 00:01 | 2234693 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

This is obviously bullish for equities as is QE3 no different than commodities or anything else for that matter.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:07 | 2233772 redpill
redpill's picture

Funny that most folks don't like the idea of entrusting their retirement to a giant pyramid scheme that has run out of new fodder.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:42 | 2233879 prains
prains's picture

Too Big To Fuck

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:18 | 2234243 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Too Broke To Float

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 00:04 | 2234698 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

No it's funnier believing they are entrusting it any more or less than to lumps of metals.

Only the blind man can't see the government's are currently behind everything moving higher/lower and instead feel the tail and call the elephant a dog.

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 00:47 | 2234816 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

What's funnier is that you're a retarded chimp and you don't even know it

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 03:09 | 2235071 eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture

too busted to fix

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:09 | 2233780 r101958
r101958's picture

Abruptly; avatar pic is too small. Bigger pic please. For those who don't already know....kawaii=cute in Japan.  Sorry, couldn't help it!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:53 | 2233930 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

it's a pic of a suicide girl ...theyre hot (even though i like chics sans tats; only cause im a contrarian, not because i have anythning against tats, you know, when the subculture becomes the main culture,  it aint my thing) ...i got the handle from serendipity name/handle generator....went with it





Wed, 03/07/2012 - 23:44 | 2234661 rocker
rocker's picture

 Suicidegirls is very justified.  When will Bambi or the Fed get it.  The market is Rigged by HFTs and Goldman Sachs.

 I have tried on many pull backs. Sometimes good and then here comes the HFTs ripping you off. 

 You can buy under book value with real growth, they take it down. You buy undervalued and it goes lower.

 Metrics, TA and DDD do not work. The only thing that matters is they can see your UPL and go after it.

 Until somebody tells the NYSE that selling seats in front of your trade is a bad idea. It is nothing less than a pure rip off.

 Fuck them all.  Buy Physical PM's as I have and win. All my physical PM's are up nicely.  

It's a shame I don't have enough money to buy a tanker of physical Oil like Goldman, JPMorgan and Deutche Bank have.

Go physical. The market is a pure paper scam. Just like paper dollars.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:51 | 2233913 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

and the reason this continues, is because of unintended consequences...douche bag has given people an exit point by levitaing ...just like myself...after the 2008 debacle...i hung in until i got back to where i was and bye bye....if he wants to keep them in it ,crash the market...momos hang on to underwater stocks...cant stand to book a lost.. ...and i could be completly wrong

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:59 | 2233728 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

retail investors are taking their money out to deleverage and/or pay for their higher cost of living courtesy of the bernank

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:59 | 2233735 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I have been 100% out of stocks as far as retirement allocations go since after '08.

I refuse to go back in, in any capacity, until this bitch crashes. I am not talking a correction, I am talking wrath of god mean reversion plus overshoot.

It can't happen because the system would explode ... so we get to watch these "players" eat each other ... hehe ... suckers



Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:08 | 2233777 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

The public beheading of a banker will get me back!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:41 | 2233876 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Corzine isnt doing anything...

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:40 | 2233873 Oztralian
Oztralian's picture

so you've missed out, ya knucklehead

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:24 | 2234261 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

nope, Corzines still available

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 00:49 | 2234820 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

missed out on a ponzi scheme? darn!

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 08:54 | 2235441 ltsgt1
ltsgt1's picture

Me too. I have been out of stocks and switch over to gold.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:02 | 2233742 Cdad
Cdad's picture

This session today was absolutely desperate, Truth.  Absolutely breathlessly moronic.  Just the market action today, out of sheer stupidity and desperation, augers for a bear market correction....20%.  And after that, the panic.

All under the smoke screen of the freakin' iPad 3...a meaningless device...meaningless except to entirely brain dead people.


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:22 | 2233823 Jake88
Jake88's picture

Good deals on iPads coming soon at your local pawn shop.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:07 | 2233982 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

too bad the batteries will all be dead...

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:58 | 2233945 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Bill Dudley's breathlessly awaiting the release of this update, hoping that this version of the Ipad will, in fact, be edible.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:07 | 2233981 J 457
J 457's picture

Ditto about Ipad 3.  These devices have people in a trance like fog.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:26 | 2234265 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

i've just seen the iPad3 advert ...friggin brilliant

..or you could just wait for the cheaper, dumber, less reliable, me-too version from also-ran Google

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 02:58 | 2235045 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Cdad, the markets are like those funhouse mirrors. Bernankified. Warped. Broken.

There are no markets. It's truly all an illusion.

At least holders of electronic stock certificates can eat those shares when the shit hits the fan, and there's inevitably no greater fool to pawn them off on.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:02 | 2233746 r00t61
r00t61's picture

When a game of three-card monte is finally recognized for the crooked con that it is, what's a huckster to do?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:09 | 2233768 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



"I'm not sure what it's going to take to get them back in the market."

Let me give you a phucking hint, Braniac.   Quit phucking shyster-scamming investors at every phucking opportunity you phucking get.


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:46 | 2234315 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

How about giving people jobs so they can get back into the market. It is kinda hard to buy stocks when you are broke!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:11 | 2233785 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

Find a new game and a new mark.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:46 | 2233900 Strider52
Strider52's picture

I'm starting to get addicted to Zynga no-limit hold 'em, me self. It's all play chips, but they're still hard to get. If you have to gamble, forget stocks, just buy phys and play poker for free. I still have yet to lose any money, gold, silver, guns, food, water, or ammo. Except for the boating accident of course.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:49 | 2233680 Dow 36000
Dow 36000's picture

This means stocks are going up...right?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:43 | 2233885 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Yes.  I heard something about infinity.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:49 | 2233681 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

So without the illusion of stock markets to fund 401ks, and bond interest rates at 0, what is Average Joe going to do as their retirement cash gets inflated into nothingness?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:52 | 2233689 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Wait until gold's "too expensive" to acquire then pile into silver like everybody else will.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:56 | 2233707 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Even my most "unsophisticated " clients know this market is detached from reality. But when I suggest they need to put a portion of their holdings in gold and silver they look at me like I'm nuts.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:08 | 2233776 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

It's pretty amazing how fucking retarded the "average" person is concerning personal finance, budgeting, saving, investing. 11 credit cards, triple re-financed house and 2 car leases. Way to go.

And I'm the dumbass because I'm buying gold and silver.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:31 | 2233840 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

"And as it was foretold, yea, verily, did the dumbasses inherit the Earth."

Durden, 12:12


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:37 | 2233855 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture


"Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of debt I shall fear no margin call, for Durden is with me. His charts and prose they comfort me."

Bitchez 1:1

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:42 | 2233886 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

Lesson 1: If you're not in debt, liquidity, and margins are irrelevant.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:17 | 2234241 Solarman
Solarman's picture

You just have to make sure what you do buy is free of a counterparty or is deriviative itself.  Anything generating cash right now is at risk of default from somewhere else.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:17 | 2234016 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was DEBT. And Hell followed with him.
~ Book of Revaluations

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:12 | 2234224 I should be working
I should be working's picture

I think his name was Bernank...

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:31 | 2233843 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Yeah, my friends think I'm crazy when they find out I'll pay $100 for $4 face value of pre-1964 dimes.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:39 | 2233865 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

I paid $400 for $15.75 worth of quarters and dimes. My girlfriend said "at least they still accept debt for money" she gets it.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:45 | 2233896 Rip van Wrinkle
Rip van Wrinkle's picture

Been there, done it.


'Gold?' Why the hell would I want to put my money into 'gold'? Every f'ing time.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:12 | 2233996 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Then they say .. What in the hell do you do with it? Where do you put it? I talked to one client yesterday and he asked if I hid it taped under the dog dish.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:37 | 2244780 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

I just don't think that would look very good on my dog -- plus he refuses to use the GPS when he buries things.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:00 | 2233958 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

What a sad lack of even rudimentary imagination that is.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:16 | 2234239 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

A friend of mine who happens to be a waitress was left a paper tip with some change and she noticed the dime looked different,  it was a 1964 dime.  Ka-ching 

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:57 | 2233716 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Some will "lose it" in ways which today are considered unimaginable. (Bank robberies, for one, have risen substantially where I'm at.)

Others will just wither away in poverty until they eventually pass on.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:00 | 2233736 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Do like my 60 year old baby boomer neighbor does. Walk around stating how great everything is while people make sheep noises at him.

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 08:44 | 2235415 ltsgt1
ltsgt1's picture

Buy gold or silver!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:51 | 2233687 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

I'm not sure what it's going to take to get them back in the market."

Hmm... a positive return that beats inflation, maybe?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:59 | 2233730 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

yeah but at least over 10 years! if not fuk em you must buy and hold

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:04 | 2233751 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

1.Normalization of monetary policy.

2.End of TBTF.

3.Reinstatement of Glass Stegall.

4. Strong regulatory presence.

5. Capitalism.

People adapt. And what retail investors have adapted to is a 15 year cycle of the Fed blowing bubbles and the busts that occur. What they have adjusted to is the Government picking winners and losers and they are never the winners. They know the game is rigged, and instead of playing they are chosing "a nice game of chess".

Current economic group think is insane:Savers will eventually be rewarded with growth. How about rewarding savers and growth will occur?

The FED suffers from the most dangerous groupthink of modern times. 

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:23 | 2233829 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Well said, thank you.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 23:58 | 2234676 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

You have to get rid of fractional reserve banking and tie the ability to create currency to the amount of things - anything or any things - that have real, inherent value. You want to grow the amount of currency without creating imbalances? Fine. Create the wealth, whether by mining, drilling, inventing, modifying, researching, discovering, problem solving, or luckily stumbling upon something that has inherent value. Absent that, no long term plan to organically grow the economy at a true rate that keeps living standards rising is sustainable.

Economic instability as the world is experiencing now is the direct result of what the wise men know to be an actually very basic & transparent Pyramid Scheme that is fractional reserve banking.

If fiat currency creation isn't directly limited to the amount of real wealth, in whatever form, a nation is able to create and store, there can't be a means of discipline to prevent the banksters and politicians from ultimately spending down the savings, and inevitably getting into the never-ending deficit spending pattern, where they promise to deal with the debt, eventually - again, and again, and again...until it's simply not possible purely as a basic function of arithmetic to do so (absent hyperinflation, hyperdeflation or some other very ugly scenario, including but not limited to, outright de jure default).


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:34 | 2233851 singsing
singsing's picture

...and restore FASB rules.  Still in the world of balance sheet fantasy.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:48 | 2233904 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture


Prosecute fraud as fraud and let morons go broke.  Thats all the regulation you need.  Otherwise just fair rules of competition.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:14 | 2234230 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Peanuts Theme Piano Cover (4:05)

Peanuts Theme Song (2:21)

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:03 | 2234472 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Good places to start. Sadly, won't be happening. Too late.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:11 | 2233788 Acet
Acet's picture

After MF Global, especially after seeing that the law doesn't apply when it comes to retail customers having their money stollen by brokerages, why would a retail customer trust their hard earned money to any brokerage whatsoever?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:53 | 2233693 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Even sheep learn eventually !

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:21 | 2233822 toothpicker
toothpicker's picture

but it wont come sheep

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:21 | 2234025 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

Sheep walks into electric fence:


Sheep walks into electric fence:


Sheep walks into electric fence:


Sheep walks into electric fence:


Sheep walks into electric fence:


Sheep walks into electric fence:


Sheep walks into electric fence:


Sheep walks into electric fence:


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:54 | 2233696 ken4aub
ken4aub's picture

But, But, But.....what about all the CIRCUT BREAKERS the controllers have installed over the last 3-4years....wont that allow for an orderly exit? <wink>

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:54 | 2233701 brewing
brewing's picture

who can believe the shit pile that is wallstreet...

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:54 | 2233703 sodbuster
sodbuster's picture

What? You mean this time IS different? Had a friend of mine tell me he was finally back to even on the stocks in his retirement account- His words- "I'm not gonna let them f'ers beat me up again- I'm paying the penalty and pulling the money out." He does NOT need the money. He'll probably buy another apartment house.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:57 | 2233718 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"He'll probably buy another apartment house."

At least then he will have a revenue-generating asset.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:02 | 2233737 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

how many years did it take for his lying ass to break even, total bullshit, he's smoking hopium crack needs an intervention

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:13 | 2233793 sodbuster
sodbuster's picture

AK- Beg to differ AK, this guy is a blue collar hard worker- owns an auto repair shop and a bunch of apartment rentals. He is not a "sophisticated" trader that would blow smoke up my ass. I take what he says at face value. What kind of return he may have got, or any other details, I do not know- I figured it was none of my damn business.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:03 | 2233747 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I think homes/apartments in parts of town that are close to resilient work centers (physically proximate) will do very well ... soaring energy costs are going to destroy suburbs (commuting costs) and those folks will want to move close to work and want to stay mobile so they can relocate near a new job if they change.



Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:58 | 2233708 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"I'm not sure what it's going to take to get them back in the market.""

Really?  How about starting by prosecuting the fucking fraud, restoring the rule of law, and let bad business models and irresponsible behavior lead to fucking failure for a start.  There is a very real cost for creating capital and not adding any real value.  Atlas is shrugging fuckers.  Why behave responsibly when it gets you kicked in the teeth.  Sit on the side lines, get physical, recognize real value and simply and wait.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:00 | 2233733 VulpisVulpis
VulpisVulpis's picture

^^^^ Restore the rule of law, bitchez.  +1

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:20 | 2233820 r101958
r101958's picture

Restore the rule of reality.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:46 | 2233898 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Can I get something more attainable like...Taco Tuesdays back?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:46 | 2234116 grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

1. Restore contract law.

2. Move off-balance sheet items to the balance sheet.

3. Detail mark-to-market write-ups so individual investors can perform due diligence once again. 

4. Show names and faces of all candidates in a political race.

5. Auto-adjust public sector pay and benefits to those of the private sector, giving public workers a natural incentive to promote private sector efficiency and success.

6. Declare wars and fight only entire populations and entire countries rather than expecting soldiers to pick out nearly-unidentifiable enemies within homogeneous populations and then crucifying them when mistakes are inevitably made.  

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:01 | 2233738 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

I doubt ANY of them shisters will ever see a jail cell! More likely is that someone will put some led between their greedy bloodshut eyes!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:10 | 2234369 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Atlas is shrugging? That would mean the wealthy are not investing.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:25 | 2234507 espirit
espirit's picture


Thu, 03/08/2012 - 02:07 | 2234963 resurger
resurger's picture

Restore The LAW!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:56 | 2233712 EBR MOD 0
EBR MOD 0's picture

doo doo doo dooo, so the tune goes...only physical bitchezz

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:59 | 2233714 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

I have yet to see that "genuine" SELL OFF by the "smart-douche-money"!!! Today would have been a gradual sell off with red into the close, HilsenRattenSchwanz came out alleging FEDsters would "mull" QEx-something and... Puff, there goes the big sell off?!?!

I dont do the market since last year, I got out, in disgust and with a lot of PHYZZZ on my hands! Just watching now, and having FUN! On the side of course still prowling for cheap(er) PHYZZZ!

I dont trust them fuckers for a nanosec! Watch how they will spin PSI tomorrow!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:03 | 2233734 Overflow-admin
Overflow-admin's picture

I don't give a Plank Lenght of credit to these assholes.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:48 | 2233903 shuckster
shuckster's picture

Smart money is legally obligated to never sell off - that's why they don't - they're legally obligated to take long positions - just look at mutual funds, 401k's, they're all rigged in order to keep the market going north - penalties? That's to prevent people from being able to close out when it's in their best interest. Every rule, every aspect of the market is intended to keep people in and bullish... wouldn't surprised if my broker has my money tied up in Zimbabwe bonds right now and when I go ask for it back he'll say "sorry, we MF'd it"

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:44 | 2234106 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

Yup, like social security, just institutionalized Ponzi schemes.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:06 | 2234473 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

The "maybe we're thinking QE" rumor was absolutely a pre-Thursday Greek news market plant. These guys are nervous.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:59 | 2233729 John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

Let the 1%ers bid their own stock prices into the stratosphere with nobody to sell their shares to when the music stops playing. It will be something to watch them crawl over one another to try and be the first ones out the door.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:43 | 2234101 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

The faceless money counterfeiting banks will never have to sell. They will ultimately simply demand possession of all of the assets... and by their rules, the assets will be given to them.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 17:59 | 2233732 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"They're definitely gun-shy. "

I disagree, this paper-pusher is wrong and I'd argue that his clients probably have more guns now compared to ten years ago.

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 00:03 | 2234699 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

When the stock casino crashed massively in 1933, for the 2nd such time in 4 years, 'retail' and even many 'professional' investors didn't return to the equity markets for a decade (some have argued volume and participation didn't actually come back for 18 years).

It's known as the 'once bitten, twice shy; twice bitten, wait a minute now; thrice bitten - FUCK YOU' syndrome.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:03 | 2233749 W10321303
W10321303's picture

"I'm not sure what......" How about a return to Capitalism? Long Term Investment that PRODUCES Long Term Value. How about some sociopaths in jail and the establishment of JUSTICE and not "just us". This was the article I was waiting for....

I certainly don't always agree or sympathize with sentiments expressed here, however, can't think of a better place to hang out and get REAL information (current), HONEST exchange of views, etc.  ('MAD' Max isn't really set up for that kind of thing)


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:04 | 2233752 DavidC
DavidC's picture

"They're definitely gun-shy. They're not believers. I'm not sure what it's going to take to get them back in the market."

I'm sure - a return of the stock market to a level where investing in it will be a good idea, a stock market that is perceived as being a fair unmanipulated market, a mrket that is not dominated by front-running HFTs and algos. Etc.


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:05 | 2233753 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture


They suckered me in.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:07 | 2233761 chump666
chump666's picture

False breakout amidst a market correction.  Obama, if he had balls and he has none, should be super pissed at the FED for this jawboning bullsh*t they pulled with this 'QE3 that isn't QE3 rubbish'.  Oil went BID!!!  Great Obama just slammed a major beat-down on the already beaten taxpayer being fleeced by inflation.  What a joke.  Anyway market sold at the close, as expected, market is topped as oil hit 106.  No one trusts this market, even the large players, ranges are tight and the 13000 (Dow) won't be used as support at all in 2012.  In fact a total flush out is due.  All we need is a HFT to go mad and we get a flash crash in a correction i.e major crash for 2012.

Because the FED is clueless and out of control, like the ECB, those brainacs when they jawbone, intervene, bailout, print money they erode the value of collateral/bonds all over the place. Unrealized losses must be staggering.  Germany has to get a reign over the ECB.  Hopefully and I mean hopefully Ron Paul can get some swing soon, audit the FED and have a official investigation of their balance sheet/operations.  Essentially shut'em down.  Wall Street will take a nice juicy pain trade, they will deal with it.  Some firms have been around for 100+ yr, they'll live. 


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:07 | 2233764 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Retail investors have been perpetually called "Dumb Money" by the so-called pros.

By that reckoning, the market should keep going to infinity, the way the 'dumb money' is fleeing.

But maybe, with the internet and all, the dumb money has finally figured the market is HFT computer rigged and said screw it - the overall lack of market volume, plus the numbers of $ withdrawn, speak volumes.

What is *really* interesting to me, is that now that we are getting down to the Fed, big 12 or so banks, and the remaining hedge funds and mutual funds; all with their HFT computers and competing algos - what happens to the 'market' now?  

May the best algo win...


Fundamentaly, organic traders are done, and this is really, really fucked - not just from an old guy pissed off about the new age, but from a standpoint that this is a guarenteed systemic crash scenario that will make '29 look like child's play. The concluding game scenario is that the first (algo) out the door wins.

Bet it is GS or MS - slight odds to GS.


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:40 | 2234091 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

I wonder what the REAL volume would be without HFT and mega-bank churn?!?

... probably 10% of what it is now. And, IMO that would be healthy.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:07 | 2233766 Racer
Racer's picture

They killed the goose that laid the golden egg!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:46 | 2233894 Rainman
Rainman's picture

They killed the goose that laid TWO golden eggs.....real estate and equities. Thieves of the previous 7 decades were careful to keep the goose alive...if only for self-preservation.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 23:00 | 2234575 SofaPapa
SofaPapa's picture

They are devouring the latest egg now in the student loan market.  When this one explodes, if not before, OWS will be shown to have been just a preview...

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:13 | 2233767 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Ah when I get my hands on you... (Ai Se Eu Te Pego...)


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:38 | 2234078 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

All girl dance troupe ... very animalistic, the lowest common denominator.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:07 | 2233770 The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

Let them cannabilize each other.  I'll get the popcorn and soda, secure some good seats for the movie

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:11 | 2233787 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

someone please come up with a new worthless fucking coupon spewing company that can be IPO'd stat!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:13 | 2233794 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

I see wall street buying when retail sells. The game may have chenged but untill it does wall street will run this market up, thinking if retail doesnt buy the dow at 13k then they will at 14k.

Same game untill it fails.

 Most people were born with a brain by mistake when a simple spinel cord would have been suficent. - paraphraseing Einstein.

I dont know if the universe is infinite but human stupidity is. another paraphrase from the brain.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:18 | 2233807 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

Two choices:  

1) Suffer the consequenses or

2) Make the needed changes (live within means, have rule of law, remove fraud, stop politics, and find the people who will express honesty, integrity, and be right-minded).  

My guess is #1 and I'm not sure the country will survive, at least not how it has existed the last 100+ years.  However, once we hit bottom (if there is anything left), and we are seriously humbled, maybe we can return to the roots of the Republic, dust off our founding documents/priniples, and begin again...

Our current state saddens me to the core...   

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:19 | 2233811 breakyoself
breakyoself's picture

Reality! What you want get from CNBS and Faux Biz News. I love it.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:21 | 2233818 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 00:13 | 2234716 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Or the priceless Dubya's derivative of the same:

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:21 | 2233821 walküre
walküre's picture

Invest in what you can control. Invest in yourself and maximize the profit of your own labor. Get rich quick schemes without any effort are usually just that, schemes. They benefit someone else.

Greece needs 14 billion Dollars or Euros by March 21st. That is a problem. Why is that a problem? Because the money isn't there and nobody is willing to sign the cheque. Nobody willing to push the button to electronically send the cash. Nobody wants to take the fall for it.

14 billion is not a whole lot but it is a lot when its due and nobody is there to cover the tab.

I keep thinking that the 23 y/o FX trading "genius" kid partied hard to the tune of $323,000 the other day because he knows that the gig is up. Might as well party like it's 1999 and spend what you can because any day now, the money could be completely worthless. That kid had a reason to party and blow that cash. Silly of course, when said cash would have been a nice chunk of gold. But at 23 y/o you don't think about the future when you know that tomorrow could be the last day. Going out with a bang and in style. Classic sign of what's about to come.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:25 | 2233833 J 457
J 457's picture

After four months they finally convinced me back into the market.  I have TZA, SDS, ERY, TVIX, and long materials (NG/coal) for after the crash when the printing resumes.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:38 | 2233863 tallen
tallen's picture

TVIX is trading at a steep premium to NAV, type TVIX.IV into your platform. If you want a 2x Vix ETF use UVXY. Don't touch TVIX!!!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:12 | 2233995 J 457
J 457's picture

I now have both TVIX and UVXY. The TVIX premium narrowed a bit yesterday.  

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 00:06 | 2234702 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Similar case here. Hope everything crashes.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:25 | 2233834 razorthin
razorthin's picture

No matter.  Prop desk vapor volume is enough to keep equities afloat so that joe schmoe stays deluded that all is well, or at least not desparate, simply because he hasn't read (or heard on MSM, more likely) about an equity colapse.  It doesn't matter that he doesn't participate personally.  What matters that he feels complacent enough to vote for any of the the establishment puppet candidates.  The ponzi must roll on.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:32 | 2233845 Quizzical
Quizzical's picture

If the retail investors are getting out, then who's picking up the slack and moving the market up? It can't all be the Israel CB!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:37 | 2233852 tallen
tallen's picture

Only the idiotic momentum chasers left in the market now. Who will cash out first with positive returns? Once funds start cashing out there's going to be a stampede for the exits.


+ Look how close it is to following the same patterns of flows as in the months coming up to the flash crash.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:35 | 2233853 Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

Stocks are so yesteryear.Read my lips Fuck your retail and your toilet paper.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:37 | 2233859 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

The have been terminated. They wont be back!!!

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:41 | 2233878 Obnoxio
Obnoxio's picture

I think investors are skipping the mutual funds and going to the more flexible ETFs and indiviual shares. Just buying Apple probably beat most the mutaul funds out there.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:01 | 2233960 Rip van Wrinkle
Rip van Wrinkle's picture

Until it doesn't.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:42 | 2233884 random shots
random shots's picture

Just means the market is going higher.  Need large retail inflows to sell into....

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:47 | 2233902 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

"They're not jumping into the market. They're not chasing it. Those who have been around for a little bit have been probably burned twice here in the last 10 years or so. They're definitely gun-shy. They're not believers. I'm not sure what it's going to take to get them back in the market."

-Gee, I'll tell you what it will take, Scott.

It will take a MARKET. A real, honest to God, human want/need/desire/lust/greed driven MARKET.

This is so fucking easy to comprehend. Prices should be DISCOVERED based on assessments derived by the aggregate interaction of all the HUMAN emotions elucidated above.

Machines do not feel. Machines do not quest to own resources to improve their lives. Therefore machines are COMPLETELY INCAPABLE of the repsponsibility/accountability/culpability necessary to facilitate the valid price discovery process.

Machines are TOOLS.  We should not be relying on them to provide our wants/needs/desires any more than we would expect to throw a wrench at a broken car and yell "FIX THAT CAR, WRENCH"

When people leave markets, the markets have no purpose, no use, no reason for being.



Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:48 | 2233907 Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

Funny Tekneek

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:58 | 2233948 chump666
chump666's picture

from wires:

--Bond investors are starting to bet on 'Operation Twist' extension
--Expectations for full-fledged QE3 are diminishing
--Analysts note the Fed has less short-term debt to sell

Correction is back on.  USD bids on

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:02 | 2233966 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

With so many retail investors saying "never again" to the stock market, Wall Street may have really shot itself in the foot this time. Problem is, they are still so high on their own crack they can't even feel a gunshot wound.

Among the small investors I know who are still in the stock market, most have some target level of the S&P in their head where the plan to sell; which is precisely why at least half of them will probably have to accept the fact someday that it can't get there, not in real dollars anyway. 

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:08 | 2233980 devo
devo's picture

Retail investors don't know what's real anymore. From whether or not there are humans on the end of the other trade to price discovery, none of it feels right. It's the biggest problem. I'm not touching the market no matter where it goes until it crashes massively or there's a legitimate overhaul. As it stands, I feel like I'm betting on a Reds game that Pete Rose is managing.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:08 | 2233984 Dr. Kananga
Dr. Kananga's picture

"On Wall Street, risk is suddenly a four-letter word. Retail investors can't stomach it. Pension plan sponsors are allocating away from it."

I know there's little love for gov't workers and their pension plans--but I thought I'd bring up something that the more astute of you could provide an opinion on.

Everyone's heard about gov't pension 'reform' -- it came out as an issue all at once about two years ago and the call for reform is global in scope. Among gov't workers here and there is talk of a coordinated 'pension heist' being pushed by Wall Street and their political cronies to get more money on the casino table by putting everyone into 401ks and out of defined benefit programs--defined benefit programs which are run with different fiduciary requirements from 401ks (DB programs have responsibilities to both employee and the taxpayer/employer.)

My question--does that seem a plausible scenario?

Pension funds already invest in markets, so if it's yanked from defined benefit plans and dumped into 401ks, it's not 'new' money for the market--but on the other hand, would money moving into the 401k space from the DB space have the effect of 'new money' in the market? (Could it be leveraged differently? Who on Wall Street would benefit the most from such a move?)

Apologies for wordiness here--but it's an interesting question and your insight would be welcome.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:15 | 2234013 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Money purchase scheme investing is completely different

as  fiduchary guidelines as to investments.Anything goes,

far more oppotunities for fraud ,even though the tighter restrictions

in DB schemes didnt stop them getting fleeced in the MBS ponzi coutesy of

the rating agency's.

Caveat Emptor !

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:45 | 2234113 Dr. Kananga
Dr. Kananga's picture


IIRC, MBS beat the shit out of some of the plans--AAA rated crapola.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:16 | 2234491 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

I'd be fairly certain that Wall Street licked their lips as soon as the concept of defined contribution plans were designated the new great idea to replace those old stodgy defined benefit plans (which actually promise some level of return, instead of providing more unsuspecting fodder for the Ponzi machine. ) 

After all, look how hard it is to get your money out of a 401k - why a penalty? You pay tax on it anyway. Govt backing Wall Street.


Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:27 | 2234040 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

The chairs are filling fast....

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 19:29 | 2234047 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

What will it take to get retail investors back into the market?

There are a couple of problems for the satanitss and their unknowing minions:

1. Very few young and dumb people have excess cash.

2. Demographics are against them

3. The older folks have been fooled once or twice and aren't going to take it anymore

4. No one in their right mind, who CAN borrow money, will borrow money to put into the market ... unless they are one of the insider crooks trying to steal from retail.

Try turning the stock markets into a free market and get rid of all FAKE ASSETS, such as ETFs and see what happens. Sure, it will take a MASSIVE dump to start and there will be no crooked IPO games but ultimately a small and healthy market will emerge.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:12 | 2234220 stant
stant's picture

gone like a 49 cadillac. or more like 2009 pontiac. like all the good things that anit never coming back. except that civil war bang bang

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:30 | 2234275 grovernors
grovernors's picture

There is no market or any semblance of market left, only manipulation, anything less is false.

The rats are wise to the con and are leaving ship.

When one loses advantage fiction quickly loses sway to reality, this is happening now.  All paper contracts are fiction and exist only in the minds of men and eventually their value will be zero corporation or not.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:46 | 2234307 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

"Retail investor?"  You mean the "little guy?"  The answer to that one is easy: NEVER. Not as long as Mother-Fucking Global, Goldman Sucks and every other piece-of-shit scumbag that brought our nation to its economic knees walks free.  Like Max Kieser says, these asshats are economic terrorists that would take Auschwitz public.  Psychopathic greed with the complete absence of morals or limits. They would destroy themselves if it made them a nickle.  Why would anyone send their hard-earned cash back into that lawless, rigged game full of hi-freq trading, front running, quote stuffing, reverse trading, insider trading, naked shorting, etc. etc.? When there are NO COPS or NO LAWS ENFORCED?????  

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 20:46 | 2234317 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Based upon what I've seen this is true.  People are catching on.

Let's hope they don't catch on too fast to gold, lest the blowout phase happen early.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:17 | 2234386 bobbydelgreco
bobbydelgreco's picture

brokers tell me some but not all of mom & pop are coming back; the other day i spoke to a broker who sells crap to losers so they will have income without having to touch their meager principle; i told this man wno has been my freind since before most of you were alive that he was evil 

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:29 | 2234410 barroter
barroter's picture

C'mon. Trust Wall St. Trust the Banks. Trust Business. They won't screw you over!  Be a good sucker and believe!  How else can the elite dig into your pockets?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 21:42 | 2234440 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

"Our bread and butter is the retail investor"  That one line should be all that is needed to know to stay the hell away from the market.  Granted I know retail traders making good $ but they are few and far between.  Your average invest a % of your income in stocks every month crowd or mom and pops with money set aside would be fucking fools to throw money in this black hole. Words out.

Regards to "I'm not sure what it's going to take to get them back into the market": That could be 1 of 2 answers.  #1 stock market resets and it's plain as day the bottom has been reached, and not one when we go back to oh so precious DOW 10k and have crammer on the tube 24/7 running around his fucking circus stage, or #2 you'll be forced into it by some means.

This has got to be one of my favorite articles in somewhile as it's exactly what I have been thinking.  One of the big assholes are going to get sweaty palms and push "sell" and it's allshewrote.  As of now Ben has gunmen at the backdoor of each establishment.  This is the reason for the helicopters recently circiling the bank in LA. Everyone thinks it's the peons on the ground the bankers will be running from. LMAO, drinking a little beer here allright?

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:10 | 2234483 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

I assume the retail trade also consists in large part to allocations to equities in 401k plans.  I allocated away last August and have been sleeping better ever since, believing "the gains in the S&P" ever since then to be pure revocable phony horseshit.  Sorry, brokers. 

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:08 | 2234460 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

"yet will come as a total shock to the central planners of the world and their media marionettes"

wow what a line

Personally I've decided to spend more time to perusing the Gun Library at Cabela's for desirable hand guns,  as we have plenty of shotguns and rifles.  Good to be prepared.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 22:44 | 2234546 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Yes. For now. I recently bought the lever action Marlin30/30 and then my neighbor had to outdo me(keep in mind I live in the country, my neighbor is about 1/4mile away) and brought home an AR-40 assault rifle. Nice. I  have a Glock, I can't hit shit with that POS unless it's close up.  My 2 favorite guns are my semi-auto 12ga shotgun and my Henry 22 rifle. I take the Henry everywhere on the 4wheeler out here. My neighbor that has the ar40 usually totes a 44 magnum on his side out here. Pretty hillarious. He's a fkn deuchbag though but I tolerate him.

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