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Charting China's Take Over Of The Banking World... And A Stark Warning

Tyler Durden's picture




 

In what may come as a surprise to some, the top 3 banks in the world by market cap, are not based in the US, nor the UK, nor, obviously, Europe. All three are Chinese, namely ICBC, CCB and the Agricultural Bank of China. The top two US banks by market cap, Wells and JPM, are 4th and 6th respectively. And what is probably scarier, and what is not shown on the chart, is the amount of "assets" that these banks need to hold on their balance sheets to generate the returns needed to maintain this market cap: off the top of our head we would imagine that the US banks, when adding derivative exposure, have balance sheet risk that is orders of magnitude higher than that of China. Yet the most fascinating aspect is the amazing speed with which China took over the banking world (and with which market caps have increased), in the past 20 years. Without a single bank in the top 10 as recently as 2005, China now has 4 banks among the ten biggest in the world. Yet should China be worried and is history poised to repeat? Back in 1991, 6 of the top 10 largest banks in the world... were Japanese. Now not one of the 6 is to be found anywhere.

via Goldman Sachs

 

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Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:12 | 1986616 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Wow.

Yet should China be worried and is history poised to repeat? Back in 1991, 6 of the top 10 largest banks in the world... were Japanese. Now not one of the 6 is to be found anywhere.

I heard people like Mish saying that we were Japan. I'll go on record saying the Chinese banks have as much chance of being off of that list as JPM.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:17 | 1986626 Matevski
Matevski's picture

Ron Paul Moneybomb today! Time to break his record from 2007 with $6 million in donations! Dig deep folks!

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:18 | 1986642 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

Lets take our country back!  Lets fight these corrupt assholes!

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:20 | 1986650 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Put your money where your mouth is. Send him silver.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:37 | 1986696 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Gresham's law is totally lost on you, isn't it?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:29 | 1986677 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I just dropped $100...double my last 3 donations.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:08 | 1986763 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

DISCLAIMER: I Love Ron Paul, but see him as unelectable for a variety of reasons, none of which you Libertarians seem to want to face.

Ron Paul CAN NOT and WILL NOT get the nomination. Not because of lack of popularity, but because the lib media will destroy him, just as I am about to do below:

He has delivered 4000+ babies:

Do you really think he will make it through the election gauntlet with this baggage? He has manhandled 4000 snappers with kids hanging out. For sure, a bunch of them will come forward to say that RP abused them in some way, touched them inappropriately, fucked up their kid or did something else wrong. This is certain. Even if all of it is BS, it will bog him down.

Not enough? Already hit the neg vote arrow?

How about this:

Here is an excerpt from an article on RP electability from Hot Air:

Paul, writing in his independent political newsletter in 1992, reported about unspecified surveys of blacks.

”Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action,”

Paul continued that politically sensible blacks are outnumbered

“as decent people.”

Citing reports that 85 percent of all black men in the District of Columbia are arrested, Paul wrote:

“Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,’ I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal,” Paul said.

Paul also wrote that although

“we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers.”

Need more or are you still in political fantasy land salivating over the Libertarian Dream Team?

How about Paul’s suggestion that the age of adulthood for criminal prosecution be lowered — for blacks?

“We don’t think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That’s true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such.”

Do you really think that with quotes like this on record, and not having the backing of the MSM to cover for you, as they have done for POTUS, that he stands a chance?

The Congressional Black Caucus will eat his lunch.

The Hot Air article goes on with much more, but suffice it to say that if RP wins the nomination, this election is a walkaway. The libtards will destroy him.

Save your money. Go buy a new Wii instead. The impact on your life will be far greater.

Again, I love the guy, but as we say here in Texas:

This dog don't hunt.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/12/15/can-ron-paul-win/

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:09 | 1986787 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Cass?  Cass Sunstein?  Is that you again?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:17 | 1986811 Killer the Buzzard
Killer the Buzzard's picture

Divine Wind coming out of your sphincter.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:21 | 1986820 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

Hmmmm. I would have to guess you are a liberal hiding behind the skirt of Libertarianism.

So typical: Resorting to insults when your argument/thesis breaks down or has no basis in reality in the first place.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:05 | 1986960 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

L0L!!!

you're funny!

a highly-opinionated texan going on about someone else's "argument/thesis"

oh, and reality, too!

very entertaining!

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 13:03 | 1987240 MolotovCockhead
MolotovCockhead's picture

Divine Wind??!! More like a case of terrible bad breath.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:31 | 1986850 eureka
eureka's picture

If anyone "sinks" Ron Paul with any kind of garbage stories, it will be the hyper rich US oligarchs, who run the world and treat everybody in the entire world - except of course their henchmen, like slaves, through the control of their prime weapons of mass terrorism institutions:  US banks & US Federal Reserve - backed up by the 99% corrupt, sold & bought US politicians AND US military Empire.

Ron Paul is just about the only honest and non-imperialist US politician, and if he - and his non-imperialist view does not win, because the US citizenry does not shar this view, or is so dumb that it must continue its vicarious and false life through the notion and desparate clinging to the institutions of Empire - then the US is over and done forever - both as "the land of the fre and the home of the brave, but ultimately also as Empire, because all empires self-destruct and US empire rose, and wil equally fall, faster and harder than any empire before it.

Vote for Ron Paul. Don't give in to his naysayers, condesenders - nor to the intellectually weak, who are afaraid to argue the truth - whatever statistics, back it up. The 2012 election is more than any time before since its founding, about nothing less than the soul and identity and future of the US.

Prepare for battle. Prepare to win.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:35 | 1986859 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

That's just it.

Super guy, wonderful policy ideas, but very very sinkable.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 13:11 | 1987266 Pinko
Pinko's picture

With friends like you, who needs enemies?

 

I for one don't count on someone else to form my opinions, nor do I weigh a man's words higher than his actions.

 

Keep bringing trash and lead weights, but it doesn't change my view of Ron Paul or my lack of faith in the establishment candidates. He becomes a viable candidate when people are ready to stand up for their convictions and stand behind a man they believe in.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 13:41 | 1987373 Chump
Chump's picture

Isn't that the point?  You are not dumb enough to fall the BS.  99.99% of voters are.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 19:09 | 1999272 Pinko
Pinko's picture

My point was also of guidance for the easily misled; until we step and show that actions speak louder than words they know only words. Evil flourishes when good does nothing. At least point out the BS and make note of the peddlers, don't let them hide behide lies and inuendo. MSM becomes irrelevant when we're ready to step up and call out their lies. If we ignore the lies as little they become the reality.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:15 | 1986996 Police Commissi...
Police Commissioner Jacobs's picture

There is no "liberal media" retard, unless you are talking about "Democracy Now." All of the media is corporate. And if anyone brings down Ron Paul, it will be the Republican establishment, at the direction of Wall Street.

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:20 | 1987012 audiorbit
audiorbit's picture

Ron Paul will not be nominated, I agree. But for none of these reasons and certainly not because he is sinkable. Every preseident has mountains of dirt in their past. But there are ways the powerful interests deal with that.

Ron Paul will not be nominated because the system simply doesnt work like that. Some think that there is some kind of process to find a representative to lead the party to power by representing the people and winning their vote. Nothing could be further from the truth. Both parties, and their politicians, are the vassels of rich, powerful men. They groom, then select two candidates, one from each "side" who will put their own ideals aside and basically do their bidding in the office. Those candidates stand and one wins. Ron Paul refuses to serve these interests. Thus he will not be nominated, no matter how popular he is.

The whole election system may have been based on good intentions when it was invented. But over the centuries it has simply become a method of reinforcing the dominant power while giving the public an illusory sense of control.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 19:14 | 1999286 Pinko
Pinko's picture

You have a choice to make your own decisions or take the line that is fed to you. If the populace votes for a candidate and he does not win, they start to ask questions. If they compromise and accept one of the two options they are only upset theirs didn't win. Change takes time, the 3rd party turnout has been steadily increasing since 1992, it will eventually overtake the two party system, but only if we don't give up and join the two party system.

Sat, 12/17/2011 - 00:04 | 1989368 Mo Bius
Mo Bius's picture

Oh, Divine, I think you just might be a troll for Americans Elect (Americanselect.com).  Americans Elect is a new political group, organized as a "social welfare" concern, currently seeking status as a political party in several states, and sporting such prominences as Lynn Forester deRatschitt. and other Wall Street phallus suckerrs, who will select, by their board , who they want as a candidate.

See here:http://www.salon.com/2011/12/09/the_slick_schtick_of_americans_elect/

Better Wake The Fuck Up!!

Oh yeah...go tell your phallus sucking friends it's Ron Paul or DIE, bitch.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:14 | 1986627 knukles
knukles's picture

And ICBC just got accepted into the LBMA.

The prot friken.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:25 | 1986662 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

all yo bang a beronging to us?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:32 | 1986680 Shineola
Shineola's picture

Asians are goy too, right?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:06 | 1986775 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

I have to disagree. China is a paper tiger and the poster child for malinvestment. Their real estate bubble is far worse than the US, their interior strife higher, and they really do not want war. They only care about keeping the country together which is about to become much more difficult.

We razy mericans not buying as much crap.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:49 | 1986910 Chump
Chump's picture

I agree that their financial problems are dire, but that does not preclude war.  In fact, think of how much better off they'd be if they could get their subjects to rally around a cause like, oh say, fighting those damn wide-eyed American imperialists.  Think of how much their demographic crisis would be eased by, oh say, killing off a few million young single men.

War is looking more and more like a way out for...everyone.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:08 | 1986968 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Well As I am short base metal (iron ore mainly) for a while, I can tell you that a lot of things do not work in China (a lot of things do work do). That being said, one has to make the difference bewteen a massive housing slump and banking crisis versus a sovereign-banking-currency crisis. China is the camp of massive housing slump and banking crisis, but it is not in a sovereign-banking-currency crisis. EUrope is a sovereign-banking-currency crisis. Britain is a bit different because they print but they have massive leverage and they will end up with a currency crisis-inflation. US better leverage but measured conventionally, you had off balance sheet and CDS and the leverage is really unknown currency destruction is the end game. So CHina has mid cycle crisis, they might have hyperinflation in say 20 30 years who knows, but they do not face that risk now really. They GDP is going to be flat to negative at the through and you will see massive SOE privatization to replenish the Central Gov coffers that is it.

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:10 | 1986975 riley martini
riley martini's picture

 In 1999 6 of the top 10 were USA the dot com ponzi .

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 14:42 | 1987633 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Fantastic point, GeneMarchbanks, fantastic points, good citizen!

With all the talk recently about the Poles, my prediction is that the top three banks this time next year will be Polish!

(Or were the talking pukes discussing "polls"?????)

Anywho, it's really not about the banks, as we all know here, it's really about the interlocking stock & bond ownership, as in AXA Holdings, and the really senior capital owners behind that outfit, as well as a few others.

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:13 | 1986619 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

First the wine, now the money. Next it will be chicks. Now that you can laser change eye color expect many more blue eyed asian hotties.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:19 | 1986646 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

Communism= Hot chicks, good wine and money. Who knew?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:30 | 1986678 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Chicks already partying in swanky NYC apts bought up by Chinese last 2 summers. You behind the times!

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:55 | 1986929 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

Affectionately known as 'Yellow Fever' . I suffer from this malady. It hurts so good.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:13 | 1986622 sabra1
sabra1's picture

at least they shoot bankers!

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:17 | 1986639 knukles
knukles's picture

Egality, fraternity, ect...
They fuckin' shoot everybody, equally.

Ever notice how we be goin' there and they be comin' here?
One for all and all for one.

We've always been at war with ourselves.
                                  -Snookie Orwell

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:44 | 1987119 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

They do not need too. The SOE chief have a minister ranking in hte communist party ranking system and the bankers vice-minister. So if you are a head of a big Bank you are a loser compared to a head of a large SOE. And if you wonder why so much loan are written is because the bankers are yes men, sort of lacquais compared to CEO of large real economy company. Now you wonder why the Chinese did not allow more than 2% of the banking system being in the hands of foreigners? They know that you have muzzle those guys because otherwise hells can break lose. After 2009 though the banks were kind of free to do whatever they want, Chines gov is going very hard to control them back. (That will not prevent a property crunch and banking crunch though).

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:15 | 1986630 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Yet should China be worried and is history poised to repeat?

Naw, it's different this time.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:51 | 1986735 UnderDeGun
UnderDeGun's picture

Shouldn't that be "History pissed to repeat"??

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:15 | 1986631 TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture

"top 3 banks in the world by market cap"

 No mark to fantasy here?

 

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:16 | 1986634 The Axe
The Axe's picture

China stepping up its grip on the internet freedoms......

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:19 | 1986645 knukles
knukles's picture

They're not alone.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:18 | 1986641 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Who the hell cares about it? Their population is 1.5 billion or something, so they should be the biggest. You have to worry when Japan supported biggest banks with population 10x smaller. JPM and WF are much to big for their base so be careful with them.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:32 | 1986682 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Oh yeah? Ask the Swiss and Cayman Islanders if their banking sysem is too large 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:41 | 1986704 youLilQuantFuker
youLilQuantFuker's picture

I guess the team is worried. Maybe israel should hold the title? By proxy?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:18 | 1986644 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Which is why China is having a massive income gap disparity that is widening. Wukan > OWS

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:21 | 1986652 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Closer to the Wisconsin thing.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:49 | 1986908 laomei
laomei's picture

Try reading more on wukan, they have no trust for the local government, they want Beijing to intervene... and it will... and local corrupts will get executed or tossed in jail for a long long time.

 

The income gap in China is far lower than the US. The US is already at India levels.  China is also taking serious measures to address it as being a problem.

 

The property bubble, it's being deflated in a calculated and controlled manner.  Housing prices are not "crashing", they are being forced lower through regulation and controls.  Rentals are getting higher, but at the same time tons of public housing (of really good quality and good size) are being set up which are open to average-income residents.  The next gun to be fired off will be property taxes, but it will be targetted more or less entirely at the rich, it's something that the average resident will literally never have to worry about... same goes for taxes as well.  This is what happens when you have a socialism-based country that is big enough to tell the west and the us to fuck off when they come in with their demands and "suggestions".

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:31 | 1987059 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Lao Mei do not be too nationalistic it blurs the judgment.(Now I am french so yes we fucked up with the second opium war that was a bad idea, sorry about that).

At least De Gaulle in 1964 was the first country from the West to recognize the PRC (the same DE GAULLE who was calling for Gold Standard). France only went straight down with ridiculous leaders after DE GAULLE :-(

I know you guys say the ~Emperor is far and the mountains are high~, so yes Beijing will take every opportunity that when things go wrong, ask the Emperor (Beijing), and solve the problem. THe income gap will be somewhat corrected with the housing slump because it was mainly the people with money who gambled with housing. Now they will have to sell those homes where the price clears that means quite low. I does not strike me as being a political problem or being a social problem to have the rich guys forced to sell their homes at a price where the masses can afford them.....

Now your guys are pretty smart at the standing committee (all a bunch of engineers) but they are not supermen. At some point there is that much that you can control. Everyone is trying to make Adam Smith look like a fool, it works for a while, but eventually it does not.

You guys still need to privatize your SOEs though, that would be good because it will foster an equity culture in China. As for Democracy, there is a problem with that, because it results in the crowd deciding and the crowd is angry, irrational and stupid. So actually a Republic is better, with little room for demagogues, (I guess Deng Xiao Ping hated the mass movements that Mao was so fond of--- you masses movements only brought problems in China---

But I guess it is the same everywhere . if you let the crowd decide you are in trouble. You need a parliament a republic, a solid system of law, no arbitrary judgments and forget about asking the masses their opinion or they will bring Mao back in China or elect G.W. Bush in America.

Now do not worry your housing slump will just create a banking crisis but nothing like 2008 in the US, you do not have enough debt for that. Eventually if your guys at the poliburo keep creating debt you might run into trouble. That is why I guess people will be surprised to see that China will not necessarily stimulate as even as close as people expect. I think the strategy of stimulation and Exports was to force a change of world currency regime. We are getting close.

 

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 15:23 | 1987786 laomei
laomei's picture

Privatize the SOEs?  Hahahah, no, privatization is a scam that creates oligarchs and destroys lives.  Getting a job at an SOE is pretty much the goal of most graduates.  It's safe, it's secure, it's not going to go bust and there are tons of perks that more or less guarantee a life-long job and all the stability that goes along with it.  Anything and everything that is anyway critical to the nation NEEDS and MUST be state owned.  The very notion that investors with interests other than the welfare of the workers and the wellbeing of the nation should have any say in it is laughable.

 

Construction used to be 100% SOE, it was broken up in the 80s.  Construction workers previously had no real worries, they were well trained by the state, well paid, certified and with no profit motive, there was no corner-cutting motive.  All profits booked went straight to the state, simple as that.  The build quality from those days is still very impressive.  Fast forward to today... workers are treated like shit, they have no security, they have on real stability and their skill sets are very lacking.  Shit materials are used to cut corners and enrich a small handful.  Government buildings, demanding high standards get the quality you'd expect, but beyond that? Most is shit.  Crazy idea here, but "profit" is most definitely NOT the most important thing in the world here.  General welfare of the people is the only thing that honestly matters at all.  If anything, the state needs to take MORE control back from the private companies.

 

There is no "housing slump" here, I really do not understand where you idiots get that idea at all.  The government is literally forcing prices down to keep them from rising even more and dropping roadblocks and speedbumps behind them as they progress forward.

Examples of what has been done so far:

Limitations on eligibility for buying property: You must either have a resident hukou or have 5 years of stable history and tax paying to be eligible.

Limitations on number of properties: 1 person, 1 apartment.  After that you start getting 60% up front in cash required and 100% required.  Furthermore, there are limits on absolute number of properties you can buy.

Taxes: Previously, it was more or less a free for all.  Holding time for most properties is now 5+ years to avoid paying taxes based on capital gains and selling price.  Holding for under a year results in a massive penalty regardless of gain or loss.

More taxes: Property tax systems are being devised.  The base ration is 60 sqm per person.  So a family of 3 gets an exemption of 180 sqm.  Past that? well... it starts to get expensive.  This is inclusive of ALL properties owned, so it hits landlords especially hard.

Public housing: With taxes on the horizon, rents are going up.  Public housing provides a family of 3 earning under 100,000 RMB per year to have a 45 sqm apartment paying no more than 1,800 per month.  A family of 4 is 150,000 per year and 60sqm.  Do, keep in mind that the fair market rate for where these units are being built is around 3000-4000 per month.  This alone will counter the rent increase problems.  Shifting that onto landlords rather than allowing them to pass it on to renters.  This also allows for a nice increase in fire sales from landlords, which will help push prices down further.  Approximately 30,000,000 units are being built with the first batch of 300,000 already on the market in Beijing and currently accepting applications.

 

Foreigners: Vague rules have become concrete laws.  1 property in all of China is allowed, full stop.  Said property must be a primary residence and renting it out is illegal, full stop.  Said foreigner must have been in China as a resident for no less than 1 full year prior before being eligible.  Minimum downpayment is 30%, with 50% being more common.  There are higher restrictions on the sale of the property as well.

 

This "housing problem" is also more or less entirely limited to the cities.  Out in the countryside, a farmer does not rent land, a farmer does not buy or sell land.  A farmer and village dwellers are GIVEN land by the state and they have more or less permanent rights to it as long as it is productive.  So, sure, you might be a poor farmer, but your house is free, you owe no taxes, the state is now providing essentially free healthcare and your daily commodities are further subsidized by price controls.  House "ownership" in China is higher than 80%, with that ownership being defined as owned outright with no mortgage.  HELOC does not exist here in any real capacity and Chinese can and will put everything they can into a mortgage to make sure it is gone faster, no one with any sanity will take a loan against their home, as "walking away" is simply not permitted and non-payment of debts greater than 10,000 RMB can bring fraud charges and jail time.  Then again, the banks are very people-focused and highly flexible as far as terms go.  The banks are not in the business of kicking people out on the street.

 

I think a lot of this "analysis" from the west is simply because they have absolutely zero clue how any of it works, are incapable of understanding a government in the non-neoliberal sense anymore, and in order to write a story that sells advertising, they have to somehow try and relate it to what their readers can actually comprehend.  The very notion of the worlds largest country proactively making housing more affordable for the masses, keeping a tight reign on its banks and setting higher taxes on the rich while providing an increased social security net is just something that is "inconvenient" for the hacks in the US to deal with if it became widely known.

 

Also, here's a fun factoid, but first some basic information.  The average compensation level (yearly) is ~50,000RMB per capita.  This does not in any way take into account bonus (typically 1-2 months pay) and other perks that are built into the system.  This also only includes the base-pay for city workers who also receive a ton of perks, typically greater than their actual pay.  Feel free to pay minimum wage, but you are required to provide room and board as well as refunding a bunch of other expenses.

So, factoid ahoy! What is middle class in Beijing?  What is rich in Beijing and what is poor in Beijing? (I will be using a "w" to indicate x10,000, think of it like a "k")

Poor: under 10w per year, post tax.

Middle: 40-80w per year, post tax.

Rich: 200w or more per year, post tax.

This comes from a survey we did with a few other partners and it's fairly cool to see how it was more or less consistent with clearly defined bands.  The wages do not include bonus or perks and are based on tax-home, post tax pay.  The majority of bonus received is equal to 1.2 month's pay.

So, what class are you in Beijing?  Pre-tax, without taking into account state taxes and health insurance premiums (we have basic UHC coverage) or 401k contributions (closest thing you really have to a housing fund I guess), you are looking at a household income (assuming married with 1 kid for tax benefits) of no less than $80,000 per year to qualify at the very bottom rung of "middle class".  

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 19:41 | 1988808 Chump
Chump's picture

There is no "housing slump" here, I really do not understand where you idiots get that idea at all.

Could be all those empty fucking cities, but maybe that's just our lying eyes deceiving us once again.

So, is "propagandist" a good, solid, middle class job?  Or do you do this out of the goodness of your heart?  Maybe strictly in the evenings to supplement your day job attaching battery covers for iShits?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 19:53 | 1988833 laomei
laomei's picture

Those "empty fucking cities" are already paid for in cash.  What point are you trying to get at again?  China has over 85% home ownership, with less than 11% of it being mortgaged.  Add onto that a 50% average savings rate.  Total debt for an average person here is under 17% yearly income.  We buy our homes in cash, we buy our cars in cash, we pay our credit cards off every month and stack 50% each month into the bank.  Whine and moan all you want I guess, but all that retarded shit happening in the west, simply does not apply here on any real level.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 20:26 | 1988898 Chump
Chump's picture

Those "empty fucking cities" are already paid for in cash.

ROFL.  Stopped reading here.  Here's your sign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5ZkdHImCuQ&ob=av3e

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 14:44 | 1987639 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Correct, old and experienced fellow, but don't ignore the historic trend in the US, merging both economically (as far as the working and serf population is concerned) and totalitarian-wise:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57343397/census-data-half-of-u.s-poor-or-low-income/

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:23 | 1986657 Shineola
Shineola's picture

And......."all your drone chips are belong to us"

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:24 | 1986659 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Look at the growth of fiat money - the largest banks have grown by a factor of 20 in 20 years.  Yet gold and silver have grown by much less than a factor of 10 (Gold was $390.80 an ounce on jan 2 1991). Real estate in China is up by a factor greater than 1000 in 20 years and real estate sales are up 68000 times since 1989.

How many of these banks are about to go under if the Euro folds? With $707 trillion in unregulated derivatives, we will get some action soon.

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:25 | 1986664 dumpster
dumpster's picture

so 30 approx number of banks in china

not counting hong kong which has 20 or so

so 50 banks with 1.5 billion folks

as  opposed to what 2500 banks in usa . ..drop this down to fifty and count the assets

so a apples to oranges comparison  

or  place  all the oranges in fifty bushels in both systems

yadda yadda

 

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:40 | 1986702 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

2500 banks in usa . ..drop this down to fifty and count the assets

They're one step ahead of you bro: we gonna have about 4 banks in a couple of years. State-backed private monopolies is the inevitable outcome of our economic policies. And guess what? They're already half way there since all the big banks are only alive thanks to the Fed. There can't be real competition with 800lb gorillas backed by Uncle Sugar

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:27 | 1986671 swani
swani's picture

World Wars fought with weapons are so last century. 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:43 | 1986712 youLilQuantFuker
youLilQuantFuker's picture

Correct. The lizards are pizzed that they can't get into the Asian banks. lol.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:27 | 1986672 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I'm sure there is a clerical error in there somewhere.  Perhaps its hidden behind the giant wealth bubble labeled ICBC.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:33 | 1986685 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

The money is just being moved around, and we're seeing the birth of the next empire.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:43 | 1986695 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Should surprise nobody: we're handing money over to China as fast as we can print it. It's all been part of "Shop till ya drop" supply-sider economics from the start. Tricky Dicky "opened" China with the original seller-financing deal where we import cheap and export jobs and industries. The whole thing went on rocket fuel when Ronnie and the monetarists added that we could export Treasury debt in exchange for the excess dollars we printed to buy their junk. 

Now each time we do QE, fiscal stim or even cut taxes, the money flows straight out the window over to Shenzen. And US multinationals are having a party cutting jobs and US brands so they can run over there and hire locals. 

 

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 14:47 | 1987648 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Caviar Emptor is, as always, completely on target.

With the offshoring of production assets and capital assets, predominantly to China, by American-based (and other) multinationals, the die has long been cast, fundamentally making this blog post another space filler, but it's still enjoyable.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 15:34 | 1987830 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

the money being shipped has a value, we are getting "stuff" for worthless paper/electronic entries. the dollar will collapse (if that is possible after a 90% decline in 100 years) as soon as the chinese wake up to the fact that they have exported a lot of finished goods in exchange for something with a zero value. just because the west cannot produce a competing consumer product stream, does not make the products being manufactured in china worth any more than zero paid for with a zero worth, dollar bill or euro/yen note. wait til we realise that there just isn't enough food or water or energy around and then we will see which currency or country ends up on top. those with resources will find they are invaded, as the US has done with Afghanistan and Iraq. China is attempting the same in Africa, but there sure is a lot of water and food in south america, waiting to be "sequestered" in the interests of the west. war will only occur if the rate of food, energy and water consumption by a potential aggressor canot be satisfied in time for that most basic of human needs. (that's my long term view). short term, buy gold is small enough denominations that you can sepnd it without attracting the attention of those with guns and tin foil hats.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:53 | 1986739 nah
nah's picture

someone should call china and be like man

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 10:58 | 1986752 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Thank NAFTA, shipping our money and our jobs to communist countries.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:12 | 1986796 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Ok. Stark warning, what do you suggest I'm supposed to do about that????

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:50 | 1987166 surrational
surrational's picture

I would comment but Zerohedge has already posted an article on this subject, regarding preparation for the coming shitstorm.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-poor-man%E2%80%99s-guide-surviv...

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:28 | 1986840 prains
prains's picture

Lead based market cap

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:35 | 1986860 BalanceOrBust
BalanceOrBust's picture

Anybody have a link that explains the relationship, if any, between a bank's assets and its market capitalization?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 13:31 | 1987336 Spigot
Spigot's picture

So help a brother out here. Market Cap = Share Price x Outstanding shares. So...we are talking about what here? That these shares are priced, overpriced, underpriced, no bid?? And how does this bear on things other than those suckers who bought those shares and are holding them (albeit ever so briefly)?

This (above) when a "bank" can claim that outstanding loans they hold are termed "assets" in a world whose economies are caving in on themselves...

...and where the secret is coming out that just about all "banks" on the planet are basicly insolvent...

...and rehypothecated to the moon...

...and have capital reserves equal to basicly nothing...

ummm, am I impressed yet? (no)

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 15:03 | 1987691 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture
The Central Bank government model can be measured using math, use geometry. The model has a forty year "run-up" period for a host nation like the U.S. and soon to be China. Then there is a 40 year "run-down" period. The dimensions of this model are triangle and depth of 666. Central Banking is a government model. Governments like a hammer are a tool.

Moving the wealth in advance of the reserve currency peg change starts happening at the beginning of the run-down of the current host nation. Hey, all our productive capacity is now in the East and all that is left is broken promises, chaos and absolute poverty. But this period doesn't last long thank God. Christina Romer recently suggested it will be 40 years before we fully recover. She understands the CB model fully it appears.

In 1972 Nixon/Kissinger started "Ping-Pong" strategy. It was either this year or a few months early in 1971 that the first global reserve fund deposits were made for the next reserve currency were put up, called "SDR's". I believe the sum was $13B.

At the time, Great Britain was experiencing it's run down period.

U.S. investors believe that the U.S., like Great Britain have just screwed up too much to continue to be the world's reserve currency. Senior insiders looting with abandon feel the U.S. government won't exist in it's current form before they would be held to account.

The CB model has three branches of government, the Executive, Legislative and Enforcement. If the concepts of a moral Republic are truth, freedom and justice the Central Bank government model's concepts are polar opposites which are lies, slavery and injustice.

Based on this information on physics and demonstrated using topography, mankind operates between 4D and 5D: http://ragingdebate.com/5dmodel

While correlating evolutions, tools and timing for this one mention would take an entire book, looking at this one page tells me that the CB model purposely creates binary problems that cause global conflict to resolve.

The solution would be a 5D model or government type. Banking would be the 5th branch. The reason bankers have gotten away with what they have for thousands of years is because of the argument that they are private. So they can buy entire governments but have zero accountability in management. The model of 40 year "run-down" for America has culmilated exactly into what was expected.

One last bit of correlation is war and the model. Great Britain was attacked at the end of the 40 year run down. The rape victims (citizens of the country) get attacked. Probably intentional part of the model so the criminal operators divert attention away from themselves in the chaos while not having to fear the former host country competing with it's new baby.

Jim Rogers carries on and on about China and it being there century, teaching kids Mandarin, etc. Correction, it would be there 80 years and the second half will start to look increasingly lousy.

I have a different opinion of the outcome of this model when it comes to war in the nuclear age. Nothing will be able to be contained once that first massive weapon is used. It is probable to me that any new system such as a 5D government model would not be implemented until after society levels itself and 1/3 of us don't live to see that new age. The end of this age is the end of using the model of Monarchy, of the Pharoah. While man didn't seem to have much choice in it 12,000 years ago, it certainly is a choice now on what tools we use to manage this globe.

We're using a musket instead of a ion cannon as a government tool.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 15:04 | 1987695 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture
The Central Bank government model can be measured using math, use geometry. The model has a forty year "run-up" period for a host nation like the U.S. and soon to be China. Then there is a 40 year "run-down" period. The dimensions of this model are triangle and depth of 666. Central Banking is a government model. Governments like a hammer are a tool.

Moving the wealth in advance of the reserve currency peg change starts happening at the beginning of the run-down of the current host nation. Hey, all our productive capacity is now in the East and all that is left is broken promises, chaos and absolute poverty. But this period doesn't last long thank God. Christina Romer recently suggested it will be 40 years before we fully recover. She understands the CB model fully it appears.

In 1972 Nixon/Kissinger started "Ping-Pong" strategy. It was either this year or a few months early in 1971 that the first global reserve fund deposits were made for the next reserve currency were put up, called "SDR's". I believe the sum was $13B.

At the time, Great Britain was experiencing it's run down period.

U.S. investors believe that the U.S., like Great Britain have just screwed up too much to continue to be the world's reserve currency. Senior insiders looting with abandon feel the U.S. government won't exist in it's current form before they would be held to account.

The CB model has three branches of government, the Executive, Legislative and Enforcement. If the concepts of a moral Republic are truth, freedom and justice the Central Bank government model's concepts are polar opposites which are lies, slavery and injustice.

Based on this information on physics and demonstrated using topography, mankind operates between 4D and 5D: http://ragingdebate.com/5dmodel

While correlating evolutions, tools and timing for this one mention would take an entire book, looking at this one page tells me that the CB model purposely creates binary problems that cause global conflict to resolve.

The solution would be a 5D model or government type. Banking would be the 5th branch. The reason bankers have gotten away with what they have for thousands of years is because of the argument that they are private. So they can buy entire governments but have zero accountability in management. The model of 40 year "run-down" for America has culmilated exactly into what was expected.

One last bit of correlation is war and the model. Great Britain was attacked at the end of the 40 year run down. The rape victims (citizens of the country) get attacked. Probably intentional part of the model so the criminal operators divert attention away from themselves in the chaos while not having to fear the former host country competing with it's new baby.

Jim Rogers carries on and on about China and it being there century, teaching kids Mandarin, etc. Correction, it would be there 80 years and the second half will start to look increasingly lousy.

I have a different opinion of the outcome of this model when it comes to war in the nuclear age. Nothing will be able to be contained once that first massive weapon is used. It is probable to me that any new system such as a 5D government model would not be implemented until after society levels itself and 1/3 of us don't live to see that new age. The end of this age is the end of using the model of Monarchy, of the Pharoah. While man didn't seem to have much choice in it 12,000 years ago, it certainly is a choice now on what tools we use to manage this globe.

We're using a musket instead of a ion cannon as a government tool.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 15:53 | 1987892 beatus12
beatus12's picture

In the next 10 yrs watch for this list to add some Indian banks.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 16:37 | 1988065 laomei
laomei's picture

I really wouldn't count on it...

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 16:08 | 1987962 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

My apologies for the duplicate post.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 23:50 | 1989325 Mo Bius
Mo Bius's picture

Their accounting is wrong. The biggest bank in the world is the Japan Post Bank, with assets of $3.2 trillion. See here:http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/MD01Dh01.html.

This is why Japan does not need to grovel before the IMF, and may also be part of the reason they were hit. Oh, it was an earthquake, followed by a tsunami? Earthquakes are rare in  sea trenches, like the one off Japan's east coast. And let 's not forget the presence of an Israeli security firm, Magna, which completed its project one week prior to the event. And do take a look at that number three reactor, where the Mossad operative company installed a 1,000 lb. camera.It blew first, OK? Ever see a nuke "gun". Looks like their camera. See this:http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=35234. And this:http://educate-yourself.org/cn/eastmanfukushimameetspolyana10apr11.shtml

Now don't bother to reply and whine like the little asss-fucked goy that you have become accustomed to, and tell me that it JUST couuuuldn't be! That's what you fools were telling me after nine eleven, but I never could find anyone that could stand up to the onslaught of facts that I would pummel them with. Naturally, I didn't make too many friends. But then, what kind of friend would a fool make?

See this, also:http://www.rense.com/general94/secbb.htm

Peace.

Actually, I meant "Lock and load!"

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!