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Charting The Legacy Of The Baby Boomers

Tyler Durden's picture


While it is difficult to properly attribute blame for the collapse of the US economy, which commenced in the early 1980s, on either the Fed's policy of easy money starting with Alan Greenspan (and terminating with today's statement by Goldman that merely a suggestion of "not easing" may be equivalent to "tightening" - a symptom of a terminal junkie), or the resultant self-indulgent lifestyle of the maturing baby boomers, one thing is certain: the paradigm downturn of the United States began in the early 1980s. And here we are willing to break the cardinal rule of statistics and assume that correlation does imply causation. Because the 4 simple charts below don't lie: the US economy, as represented by its Balance of Payments, the profligacy of the US consumer, the massive expansion of consumer leverage, and the collapse in US manufacturing jobs, and specifically its current near-terminal state, is as much as legacy of the baby boom generation's actions (and lack thereof), as of everything else that has already been mulled over and scapegoated an infinite number of times in both the mainstream and fringe media.

Charts courtesy of John Lohman


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Thu, 03/15/2012 - 19:01 | 2259732 redpill
redpill's picture

Thanks guys!  From the Greatest Generation to this?  Sort of like a demographic version of "Superbowl to Toilet bowl" I guess.  Since the boomers legacy will be one of total suck-ass, the balance of karma should be in favor of at least a couple mildly responsible and rational generations to follow.


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 19:35 | 2259879 YC2
YC2's picture

I think the boomers losing their retirement portfolios in real or nominal terms could be the contrarian end to the most crowded trade of all time.  

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 19:37 | 2259881 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Boomers can eat iPhone.

Can some Apple bears please eat up these Apple love-in comments:

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 19:51 | 2259938 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The boomers were called the "me generation" for a reason.  Lower taxes for their immediate benefit, increase spending for their benefit, increase debt for their benefit, etc.  Let someone else worry about the consequences.  They love Ayn Rand because she excuses and in fact justifies their selfish behavior as rational and appropriate.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:03 | 2259985 CIABS
CIABS's picture

The boomers were re-programmed by members of the supposedly greatest generation starting around 1969.  In hindsight it looks like it was easily done.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:06 | 2260196 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Anyone who thinks the problems of this country are attributable to one age group have partaken of the kool aid. Was Reagan a boomer? How many Fed chairmen have been boomers? Get a grip, people. It's the system. Lumping an age group together is indistinguishable from racism.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:33 | 2260280 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

Same old distraction. Blame the victim or blame the tool, blame the other team.




us/them tribal mentality;






Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:05 | 2260381 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The meme is "jack the boomers".  Why?  As Willie Sutton said, "that's where the money is."  Boomers SS and 401Ks will certainly come under attack.  The "system" needs those funds.

As for generational disparity, I'd like to ask Gen X aka "Reagan's Babies" how they liked the free K-12 education I paid for.  Also, how do you like the low rates on your mortgages?  My savings are not earning anything.  I hope you aren't wasting the mortgage savings on big screen TVs!


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:16 | 2260415 JimmyCDN
JimmyCDN's picture

Sorry about your savings not earning anything.  I would gladly pay a higher mortgage rate, if the home I bought wasn't so expensive because of inflation.  When a starter 1300 sq ft home costs 5x your annual salary, I have a hard time feeling bad about your savings, because I will never have ANY.


I have a right to live, so where is my right to living space?






Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:38 | 2260938 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Purchase a portable garage and move into a local or state park. Quit the crying. Nobody owes anyone anything. Fuck.

What do you think? The entire generation was the fucking huxables and wally and beaver?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 06:04 | 2261127 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Surely the simple solution is to simply cancel pensions by defaulting on debt, cancel free healthcare and make those who benefitted most pay for their own upkeep?

Oh, yes,... sorry, forgot about that, what with all the talk about recovery. That's what's about to happen anyway isn't it...

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:46 | 2261487 herewego...
herewego...'s picture

This Be the Verse BY PHILIP LARKIN

They fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn By fools in old-style hats and coats, Who half the time were soppy-stern And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, And don’t have any kids yourself.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:19 | 2260428 YC2
YC2's picture

yeah but the average wage hasnt budged in like 40 years, what does that tell you?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:24 | 2261259 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Things have returned to normal, that's what. The period from the late 1940's through the early 1970's was the aberation. One third of the world distroyed by World War and another half under a horrible economic system (communism) that couldn't compete. Of course real wages went solidly higher until the rest of the world recovered. Average workers NEVER get ahead through pure labor during normal times. Period, end of sentence. You have to save money and OWN assets to get ahead. And there's no guarantee it will happen then if you can't invest it wisely. That's why there's always pressure between labor and capital.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:17 | 2261392 YC2
YC2's picture

Yes but my point was that it certainly doesnt tell you that the younger generations arent as "hard working" and should worship the older ones for providing K-12 education when they had more than the ability to do so and provide a middle class life for themselves due to their circumstances.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:20 | 2260432 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

Im Gen. Y, but your comments could hold the same weight. So we got a free indoctrination, eeerr education for years. Thanks! It only took years to reverse. As for low mortgage rates, more like scooping up short sales thanks to your irresponsible generation. Lastly, its you fools who voted in and allowed these parasites to continue their corrupt ways LOOOOONNGGG before we could vote. Yes Obama is somewhat my generations fault, but your generation shoudlve revolted and taken back this country long before now, sadly this task now falls on us.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:38 | 2260511 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

When the people are given a choice between two parasites, do not blame the person who choses a parasite. Blame the culture-creators who have convinced the masses that the parasites are our necessary stewards.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:09 | 2261230 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

Z Beeblebrox,

Run run, bought out coward.

Keep blaming flock mentality, it readily displays idiocy.


Sat, 03/17/2012 - 03:18 | 2264497 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

I'm not blaming the sheep for flocking. I'm blaming the shepherd for convincing them he is their protector rather than their predator.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:44 | 2260527 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

"Yes Obama is somewhat my generations fault, but your generation should've revolted and taken back this country long before now, sadly this task now falls on us."

Well, let us know how that one works out for you.  Ho ho.

This finger-pointing generational shit is propaganda heaven for the 1 per-centers who set the whole fucking thing up.  Classic divide and conquer.

Small point about the charts: they go back to about 1958.  The thesis might be a little more credible if they went back to, say, 1900.  Why don't they?  Guys like me wouldn't be wondering if the data was cherry-picked.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:58 | 2260559 JimmyCDN
JimmyCDN's picture

This finger-pointing generational shit is propaganda heaven for the 1 per-centers who set the whole fucking thing up.  Classic divide and conquer.


Bingo!  You sir get a virtual cigar!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:58 | 2260744 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

"Divide and conquer" the classic excuse of a people who failed to act and now see the differences between themselves and others........


So what, do we come together now? All I hear from you old folks is how you paid for your SS and it cannot be taken under ANY circumstance!!!


We are already divided, its about survival now. Sucks if you have a family to care for while my gen's gangs roam the streets and countryside. You have to look out for many, us - just ourselves. See how fun the divide game can get. You failed to fight TPTB and now its either up to us (the few folks who can see) or your average OWS fool who falls in line behind Van Jones and other marxist fvcks looking to 'remake' the system.


Here is a fun quiz: How many of your gen is voting for insider/NWO tools Mitt, Newt, or Ricky? How many of my gen is backing Dr. Paul?


My point exactly, your gen is full of braindead losers, yes you may be the exception, but the rest of your ilk (Rush/Levin-listening losers) are not.



Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:42 | 2261475 Melin
Melin's picture

There are liberty lovers in every generation. 

How is Ron Paul different than Mark Levin?  They both hate undeclared wars especially those fought for purposes other than national defense.  They both think the government should monitor the wombs of women and they're both outspoken in their religiosity. 


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:46 | 2260532 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Lower mortgage rates = higher prices.  Higher mortgage rates encourage saving to rapidly pay off lower priced house.  

References:  math, common sense.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:55 | 2260555 JimmyCDN
JimmyCDN's picture

Please add greed to your references.  Thank you.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:02 | 2260884 old naughty
old naughty's picture

...and add world domination via financial oligarchy to it as well.

It's simple until they mainpulate...

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:31 | 2260674 ChrisFromMorningside
ChrisFromMorningside's picture

What a crock. You suggest that the evil "system" is out to get Boomer "savings." The "system" is the only reason that your generation has "savings." The "system" primarily exists to make sure your generation preserves its "savings." The "savings" you refer to are not the product of your labor but rather are the product of the biggest Ponzi in history. 

How can you be sure that you paid for anything? If you pay for a 25 cent piece of candy but then steal a one dollar chocolate bar, you didn't *really* pay for anything did you? In net terms, Boomers took more than they received. Not to mention that the K-12 education you supposedly paid for really, really sucked and education in the U.S. slowly transformed into state-funded daycare. 

Low rates on mortgages? How many Boomers funded their retirement by flipping houses during the bubble, ONLY possible due to those same low rates that you decry as harmful to your generation. In contrast, how many younger people even have mortgages at this point? It's young people who are suffering because many have spent their *entire* working life in a brutally anti-savings economy with negative real interest rates. 

One of the primary reasons why we "can't" liquidate the insolvent major banks in the U.S. is because doing so would wipe out so many 401K and pension funds and we can't have that, can we?

Many on here ponder what TBTP are thinking with their "extend and pretend" and "kick the can" strategies. It only becomes clear when you consider the generational dimension. What is going on is that the Boomers will keep kicking the can til they themselves kick the can (die). By then, what do they care? They'll be dead. Let the next generations try to pick up the pieces and let them pay for the insane excesses of their parents and grandparents. It's the ultimate fuck-you, which is appropriate for a juvenile generation that never grew up. That's why I say that it is very possible that the S won't HTF for another decade. Even if the fiat ponzi collapses ... Those who set up the fiat system to fail will suddenly show up peddling their solution to our crisis: another incarnation of the same fiat bullshit. And the sheeple are so stupid they'll go along with it. 

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:50 | 2260721 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Pretty sure I don't like ya personally, but that was righteous.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:37 | 2260934 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

The "system" already stole the Boomer's SS funds - Boomers being in denial about that doesn't change the fact that the "trust fund" is a bunch of worthless IOUs from an insolvent entity that perpetuates itself on deception and fraud.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 07:00 | 2261166 Tim White
Tim White's picture

Exactly! Divide & Conquer...

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:47 | 2260330 Alexandros
Alexandros's picture

Global Debt Crisis

The greatest private fraud of human history.

Who are the great fraudsters who are becoming the murderers of the human kind? How does the economy "illness" threaten Democracy and the freedom of people?


People should start getting ready for great trials ...for International Courts, where the current loan sharks shall give account. Monetarism criminals should sit on the same benches that once sat Nazi criminals. Rothschild, Rockefeller, Greenspan, Bernanke, Trichet, Soros, Buffett –and other “kids” of the loan sharking- should not sleep calmly from this point on. So, should also do their Quisling-type partners ...all the traitors who undertook power supported by the Monetarists and exercised leadership at the expense of their people ...Merkel, Sarkozy, Barroso, Zapatero, Papandreou and others.


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:03 | 2260374 Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

People should start getting ready for great trials ...for International Courts, where the current loan sharks shall give account. Monetarism criminals should sit on the same benches that once sat Nazi criminals.

Yes, but the difference this time is that Monetarism criminals OWN the courts; the Nazi criminals did not.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:52 | 2260726 trav7777
trav7777's picture

in the height of irony you seem to forget who the nazis were trying to evict from their country...the name warburg ring any bells?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:57 | 2260351 subqtaneous
subqtaneous's picture

True to a point (habitual, unbridled desire for acquisition and materialism w/o sufficient means, and as a gage of status, is completely counter to the previous generation's view of literally being stigmatized by debt as one example), but the sheer magnitude of people in one generation (20 yrs.) moving thru the 'system' which depends largely on equitable support from not only a smaller generation, but one with far fewer prospects to participate in the 'system' on equal footing is a recipe for disaster.

The most noble thing we can do for the problems this country faces in the next 30 years is to be as little a burden on the 'system' as possible, and by that I mean to simply die-off naturally . . . w/o any support from or burden upon these struggling young people. This is the least we can do after putting them thru 11 yrs of this hell we are only just now witnessing the repercussions—you'd think we would've learned something from our mistakes in Vietnam—and if we don't, we're likely to regret it sooner rather than later.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:40 | 2260699 malek
malek's picture

Thanks for disqualifying yourself from serious discussion.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:06 | 2261357 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

Vote up!

Vote down!


Anyone who thinks the problems of this country are attributable to one age group have partaken of the kool aid. Was Reagan a boomer? How many Fed chairmen have been boomers? Get a grip, people. It's the system. Lumping an age group together is indistinguishable from racism.


You got it right.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 06:20 | 2261143 q99x2
q99x2's picture

If you touch them they turn into orange juice.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:08 | 2260000 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

No matter what the topic, you weave in Rand! Did she accuse you of having a small pecker or something?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:21 | 2260042 bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

BOOMERS < Bitchez.....!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:37 | 2260094 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

Maybe. But boomers didn't invent the debt-based digital fiat reserve currency -- free from even the minor logistical constraints of ink and paper -- that fueled 'democracy' toward this, its logical, failed conclusion. Or, did they?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:08 | 2260203 economics1996
economics1996's picture

The big change was 1965 when the welfare society was created.  In 1965 the Social Security fund was raided to pay for Vietnam.  In 1971 Nixon went off the Bretton Woods Gold Standard.  All this was done by the Silent "Greatest" Generation and the GI Generation.  The overwhelming majority of baby boomers, 1946-1964, could not vote or have any influence.

It was the "Greatest Generation" that gobbled up Dr. Spock and the other BS that created the hippies.  

And the parasites broke through in 1965 with the elimination of national borders, unrestricted immigration from Mexico, LBJ's Great Society, welfare, job training, child support, and the destruction of the family by the federal government.

Get your facts strait, let me write one of these blogs explaining exactly who is guilty for what, boomers, were lead down the road by their parents who created the Ponzi system.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:16 | 2260220 economics1996
economics1996's picture


ZH really needs to let me write one of these "Guest Post" about what happened when by who.  Blaming the boomers is ridiculous, their parents set them up, it was generational theft and Ronald Reagan with his 1983 SS tax increase delivered the coup de grace to the boomers.

Bush, 2001-07, cremated the boomers, but not before giving them a warning in 2004 with his SS reform tour, warning given, warning not received.

1957-64 was a different group than 1946-56.


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:20 | 2260244 Renfield
Renfield's picture

Yup. Generation Jones, you're referring to. Generation between the Boomers and X.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:37 | 2260297 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

Which generation of sheep should we blame for the shepherd's decision to harvest?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:23 | 2260447 I Ching
I Ching's picture

It is clearly the Muppets' fault for being Muppets.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:54 | 2260732 trav7777
trav7777's picture

fault is such a subjective term...85% of people HONESTLY believe they are above average drivers.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:27 | 2260059 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

A very large number of politicians and oligarchs/bankers are Rand followers.   Her philosophy of celebrating narcissism on a global scale is affecting our daily lives even though most people do not realize it.    When we see the results, most people want to blame something else but I see a very direct connection between Rand and the charts on this story.  Rand followers like Grover Norquist dreamed up the idea of "starving the beast" by running up huge deficits while lowering taxes.  The result?  The charts above.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:41 | 2260101 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

"A very large number of politicians"??????

Where? I'll assume your talking about the USA. Let's rule out anyone in the Democratic Party, I don't think she's their patron saint. On the Republican side of the aisle, I'd wager that a very small minority have even read Rand - and in any event, they may talk some of her playbook but don't actually act on it.

Rand's fundamental point is that the individual should be left alone to succeed or fail, based on his own ability. That the STATE, or anyone else for that matter, has no claim on another person's life. What is wrong with that?

Taxes are theft, pure and simple. Governments should be smothered. Their only purpose should be to insure the enfircemdnt of COMMON law and provide basic infrastructure support when the people think it be best performed there .vs. the private sector.

I don't see why this is so abhorrent

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:45 | 2260121 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Simple" is the only word in your diabtribe that makes sense.   It is ironic to me that people like you don't see that our greatest ills as a society are the direct result of the laissez-faire approach that you advocate.  How is it that you think China is rising while we fall?  The oligarchs have received license to go wherever they can exploit labor and resources for their own profit -- the exact model you advocate.  The result is a shrinking middle class in the West and an ever lowered standard of living for the large majority of the population while a select few become very rich.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:55 | 2260157 BigJim
BigJim's picture

  How is it that you think China is rising while we fall? 


China gets richer the less socialist they get; and we get poorer the more socialist we get.

The shrinking middle class is the result of statist-imposed fiat creation by a cartel of counterfeiters, ie, the banks. Our present predicament is the result of the state, not despite it.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:57 | 2260165 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I don't disagree with you that the Fed must be stopped.  But the oligarchs for whom you cheerlead are very much in bed with the bankers.   China is rising on the backs of virtual slave labor.  Rand would indeed be proud.  Only an oligarch or a complete idiot would want that model for their own society.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:17 | 2260231 BigJim
BigJim's picture

  But the oligarchs for whom you cheerlead are very much in bed with the bankers.

Er... yeah. that's hardly surprising, is it? Power and wealth attract the unscrupulous. Our state has granted the power to create virtually infinite credit to a cartel, and, surprise, surprise, people like Warren Buffet go where the money is. Your point is?

  Only an oligarch or a complete idiot would want that model for their own society.

Well, you were the one urging us to compare China's rise with our own failing economy. So... are you the oligarch, or the 'complete idiot'?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:45 | 2260945 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Don't confuse that idiot with logic.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:58 | 2260743 trav7777
trav7777's picture

this is fucking idiots with your political axes to grind.  go look at norway.

Look; it's simple shit.  You want prosperity, put white or asian men in charge and disenfranchise everyone else.  Done.

The political system DOES NOT MATTER in this case.  You can be socialist like Norway or Canada or "capitalist" like the US before the Civil Rights movement.

Demographics are everything, nothing else matters for shit. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 05:39 | 2261110 Maghreb
Maghreb's picture

How comes Eastern Europe is still all sorts of fucked in that case?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:44 | 2261669 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Trav's racism blinds him to the obvious.. again.

Compare North Korea and South Korea, Trav... demographics are nothing, politics, and culture are everything.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:57 | 2260164 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Another leftist Trojan horse! Where is there laissez faire? Where?

Rent seeking corporations like GE, the banks, old man Buffet, the bond king Bill Gross. Are those you capitalists??? Those are the rent seekers (if you read Rand like you purport you would know she hated rent seekers)!

What the FED? The welfare state?

You don't have a clue!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:58 | 2260166 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Free trade, moron.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:03 | 2260183 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Fess up - you're really Cass Sunstein aren't you?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:09 | 2260209 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Sunstein is a tool.  "Some view him as liberal,[13] despite Sunstein's public support for George W. Bush's judicial nominees Michael W. McConnell and John G. Roberts,[14] as well as providing strong theoretical support for the death penalty."

Roberts was one of the justices who wrote in favor of Citizens United, selling out what is left of our Democracy.  The opinion exemplifies the true result of letting oligarchs run amok.  They will take over the media, and eliminate real choice in a Democracy while decrying regulation and taxes that would protect the little guy.  

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:14 | 2260223 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Is that a "no"?   Are you Michelle Obama?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:25 | 2260258 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I think your biggest problem, LTER, is that you fail to see that the bigger the government, the more power its corruption has to ruin society.

Governments have always been corrupt; but when they were smaller, their corruption was less all-pervasive. We now have a totally intrusive state, and, surprise surprise, its dirty little tentacles are everywhere, and there's very little chance for us nobodies to do anything about it. Statists like you demanded more & more regulation; so companies hijacked regulation, from the SEC down to the EPA down to the FDA. We have complete regulatory capture now. Well done! Where do you think oligarchs get their power from? The state!

People wonder - why are there so many bailouts? Because many large corporations now are, in essence, the State itself. The government didn't bail out the banks; the government bailed out itself.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:29 | 2260266 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And so you want to cut out the middle man.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:01 | 2260752 trav7777
trav7777's picture

You're fucking WRONG and you're stupid.  JFC, scandinavia is UNABASHEDLY socialist.

Why the fuck is it you people cannot see the truth, including that you're not intelligent enough for your opinion to be voiced?

1000 fucking times you will say this shit and New England will still be the MOST PROSPEROUS and MOST SOCIALIST part of the US!

The highest HDIs in the world are the most socialist countries, places you act like are a HELLHOLE, when it's the opposite.

DEMOGRAPHICS are ALL THAT MATTER.  I fully understand that you people have IMMENSE psychological difficulty accepting this but I repeat- it is a function of your psychological conditioning.  Remove that and you will see clearly.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 02:10 | 2260971 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

You dumb motherfucker. While caucasians and asians MIGHT have marginally higher IQ scores (your command of psychometry is probably dwarfed by dried ejaculate so I wouldn't trust your intepretation of wavy lines on cardboard let alone data of any sort-guess who has the highest IQ???..... the fucking Ashkenazi). Don't you think psychological conditioning might play a part in the oppression of minorities? 150 years ago blacks were in bondage. Go run your mouth to the lazy plantation owners who brought them here but shut the fuck up about demography. I've got some fucking news for you and your racist diminutive laconic dismissive microphallus incarnate of an internet personality: WHITE PEOPLE ARE FUCKING UP AMERICA RIGHT NOW and jews/illegals probably aren't helping. Demographics don't mean A FUCKING THING UNLESS THERE ARE SOCIETAL MECHANISMS IN PLACE (criminal justice system, education, employment, etc.) TO PERPETUATE THE OPRESSION, INIQUITY, AND INSANITY THAT BESET MINORITIES AND LOWER CLASSES IN AMERICA. IF YOU PUT A BLACK KID IN HARVARD HE WILL BE FRONTRUNNING CLIENTS JUST THE SAME AS THE WHITE AND ASIAN ASSHOLES WITH UGLY WIVES AND PRIVATE SCHOOL BILLS. PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITIONING??????LET'S TAKE THIS FURTHER......IS THERE A LAZY GENE? AMERICA IS 80 PERCENT WHITE. NORWAY IS SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE THEY HAVE OIL AND ARE THE SIZE OF MAINE YOU DECEREBRATE MONKEY. BOTTOM LINE: ALL MY SPERM ARE MOTILE AND MORE EXPRESSIVE THAN YOU ARE. THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE. I'M OUT.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 04:01 | 2261047 Reven
Reven's picture

It's not just Norway, it's the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Holland, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, etc.  These people do not all rely upon oil.  The Soviets competed with us despite having a smaller population and a terrible economic system and Government.  However, if you look at the IQ of the Greek people it's clear they have lost something through the centuries that lead to a long, grueling decline.  Same for the Italians, the Portugese, and the Spanish.  They're all in decline and it's partly genetic.  If you look at many whites in the Southern US, you see they are not as wealthy, smart, or as well educated as their northern counterparts.  They cling to ridiculously religious doctrines like a literal interpritation of the bible that poisons their entire political belief system.  They are more concerned with making sure gays don't marry than real issues.  Almost anywhere you look, the closer a society gets to the equator, the less intelligent they are with very few exceptions.  Cold climates produce people with superior intelligence through adversity.  Natural selection does not function as well in warm climates, because it does not select for intelligence to the same degree that cold climates obviously do, unless humans take it upon themselves through their culture to select properly for intellect (like Jews did moreso than any people).

Furthermore, the US is not 80% white, that's only if you include Hispanics as White, which they are NOT.  The US is turning into a 3rd world nation faster than any in history.  Whites will be a minority by the year 2042.  The same thing happened historically to ancient Egypt by the way, but it happened over centuries.  It's a little historical secret, but the ancient Phaeroes shared a genetic heritage with Europeans, but the blacks to the south of Egypt (Nubia) slowly migrated and integrated themselves in society, and eventually interbred with the ancient Egyptians.  Decline was inevitable when people who were slaves began interbreeding with Egyptians.  And the damage was complete by around 700 to 400 BCE when the great historians of the mediterranean began visiting Egypt.  Read this:

The course of racial developments in Egyptian history has been backed up by anthropological research. The British anthropologist G.M. Morant produced a comprehensive study of Egyptian skulls from commoner and royal graves from all parts of the Egyptian lands and times. His conclusions were that the majority of the population of Lower Egypt - that is in the Northern part of the country - were members of the (now virtually extinct) Mediterranean White sub-race. In the south (or Upper Egypt) this population pattern was repeated but this time showing a certain percentage of Black admixture (reflecting the proximity of the Nubian settlement). Significantly, Morant found that with the passage of time, the differentiation in skull types between Upper and Lower Egypt became less and less distinct, until ultimately they became indistinguishable - the surest sign of the absorption of the White sub-race into the growing non-White mass. (Race, John R. Baker, Oxford University Press, 1974, page 519)."

And the Ashkenazi Jews do have by far the highest intelligence of any group, and for this reason they are disproportionally rewarded with top positions in corporations and in the field of science.  And it had everything to do with selective breeding within their community for intelligence, and very little to do with hard work or studying, but that's part of the genetic package too.  Young Jews instinctively love reading, they pick up books and can't stop.  My uncle adopted a young Jewish girl and two Hispanics.  His Hispanic children are borderline brain damaged because their mother smoked crack or something before they were born.  The Jewish girl is a virtual genius though, and destined for great things.

Also the IQ scale is not linear, meaning going from 100 to 105 is not the same as 105 to 110, it's based on a bell curve.  But all this information is hurtful to people's feelings, so lets ignore it and play like it doesn't exist.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 07:00 | 2261167 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

One thing the north/south theory doesn't explain is the supiriority of the English over the scots

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:53 | 2261323 Reven
Reven's picture

Culture is important too.  The English obviously have a superior culture.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:35 | 2261882 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

... If it ain't Scottish it's crap...

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 07:25 | 2261177 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



Cold climates produce people with superior intelligence through adversity.........

Me = Russia, Wife = Mexico ....... yeah you're spot on with that one. I often joke if we were back in the caveman days my wife would be the first one eaten by the sabre tooth tiger [cat].

The Kids = ???? time will tell


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:49 | 2261685 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:26 | 2261847 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

I still don't get it. Try shouting A LITTLE FUCKING HARDER! That way we will understand how intelligent u r. hahaha

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:38 | 2261899 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

You really don't get it.  Let's try a different tack...

Good Culture - Reach for the Brass Ring.

Bad Culture - Compare yourself to the lowest common denominator.

Does that example help?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:59 | 2262074 Reven
Reven's picture

I can see you're not interested in a rational conversation.  All you want to do is shout.  Try to take the caps lock off and calm down.  I don't think you even fully read or comprehended what I wrote based on what you're saying.  I was criticizing believers in the bible as less sophisticated.  And I was trying to make a point about how backward the Southern US is compared to the Northern US, consistent with the hypothesis that colder climates breed more intelligent people.  A book was written on this subject, read it.

You obviously don't know much about IQ.  The difference between an 85 IQ and a 100 IQ is pretty large.  It requires about a 108 IQ to get an engineering degree and 103 to get a computer science degree.  Most blacks don't have the intellectual capacity to compete at that level.  While their intelligence is probably well suited to living in a mud hut in Africa, it is not well suited to participating in a technological society, where how high you can jump and how fast you can run is of little to no benefit.  Blacks have displayed a remarkable musical ability, one beyond what one would expect of a group with such a low IQ, but that too is of little tangible benefit to society, and unless one is extremely talented, it is also not a career choice.

Here's you're problem.  You don't recognize that it's easier to live and procreate in a warmer climate compared to a freezing one.  You ignore the importance of natural selection and how humans could have diverged in many traits over the thousands of years we've been apart from one another.  You ignored the chart I provided.  The low IQ of blacks is WORLDWIDE, not specific to any single oppressive culture or society.  And other groups worldwide have low IQ as well, such as, Arabs, Hispanics, Greeks, etc.  This is well documented, and even adopted blacks in white families immediate start falling behind before they're old enough to think about crime or be arrested.  A few black kids getting arrested or hassled isn't sufficient to cause the huge underperformance among blacks.  And it is huge, not marginal as you tried to argue above.  How do you explain the fact that Hispanics outperform Blacks, but Asians outperform Whites?  I guess the society just gives the Hispanics a free ride and so they outperform blacks?  Your argument is ridiculous.

Even if I was proven correct, you still wouldn't be able to accept the truth.  The truth is too much for you to handle, obviously.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:09 | 2262901 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

I can't believe how fucking dumb you are. Asians have higher IQs than Caucasians but don't live in the northern latitudes? Explain that. Is India cold? Do Jews come from the fucking mountains? Aside from the mountainous regions, is Japan fucking cold or a pacific island? You take these little idiotic facts that you read at Hitler camp and superimpose them on much more complicated dynamics. It's the worst of induction. If you want to make generalizations, it's poverty that underlies ignorance/underperformance/etc. you jerkoff. I'm not going to get into the nuance of the cultural biases implicit in IQ tests and I readily acknowledge there are differences amongst the races, but your banter is mongoloid like. Poor white people behave just as savagely as any ethnic group irrespective of iq stratifications. While there are genetic differences, black/hispanic people are far and away poorer and not genetically programmed to be less productive. Can you argue with that? If you live in Gambia you aren't going to get a Phd because the life expectancy is about 40 or because your parents carry fish on their heads. I understand society (genetics, economics, culture, etc.) but your simplifications imply you read a book and now deem yourself an expert on anthropology/psychological testing/evolution. There are SO many other factors. You are the Bob Pisani Santelli of biology. You aren't equipped (very few people really are) to parse what effects are precisely cultural or genetic. So, until you become the LAWNMOWER MAN SHUT THE FUCK UP BECAUSE ASSHOLES LIKE YOU ARE RUINING THIS COUNTRY BY MAKING RIDICULOUS EXCUSES. I HOPE YOU SEVER YOUR SPINE TRYING TO AUTO-FELLATE YOURSELF.


Most blacks don't have the intellectual capacity to compete at that level.  While their intelligence is probably well suited to living in a mud hut in Africa, it is not well suited to participating in a technological society, where how high you can jump and how fast you can run is of little to no benefit.  Blacks have displayed a remarkable musical ability, one beyond what one would expect of a group with such a low IQ, but that too is of little tangible benefit to society and unless one is extremely talented is not a career choice.

Here's you're problem.  You don't recognize that it's easier to live and procreate in a warmer climate compared to a freezing one.  You ignore the importance of natural selection and how humans could have diverged in many traits over the thousands of years we've been apart from one another.  You ignored the chart I provided.  The low IQ of blacks is WORLDWIDE,

The above could only be penned by a complete asshole. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 16:01 | 2263157 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You're not going to convince a proud racist he's mistaken, and FOR SURE it's a bad idea to let him piss you off while you try.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:10 | 2262907 vened
vened's picture

---Culture of Critique, Preface to the First Paperback Edition

Kevin MacDonald

Although there is much evidence that Europeans presented a spirited defense
of their cultural and ethnic hegemony in the early- to mid-20th century, their rapid
decline raises the question: What cultural or ethnic characteristics of Europeans
made them susceptible to the intellectual and political movements described in
CofC? The discussion in CofC focused mainly on a proposed nexus of
individualism, relative lack of ethnocentrism, and concomitant moral
universalism—all features that are entirely foreign to Judaism. In several places
in all three of my books on Judaism I develop the view that Europeans are
relatively less ethnocentric than other peoples and relatively more prone to
individualism as opposed to the ethnocentric collectivist social structures
historically far more characteristic of other human groups, including—relevant to
this discussion—Jewish groups. I update and extend these ideas here.

The basic idea is that European groups are highly vulnerable to invasion by
strongly collectivist, ethnocentric groups because individualists have less
powerful defenses against such groups.
 The competitive advantage of cohesive,
cooperating groups is obvious and is a theme that recurs throughout my trilogy
on Judaism. This scenario implies that European peoples are more prone to
individualism. Individualist cultures show little emotional attachment to
ingroups. Personal goals are paramount, and socialization emphasizes the
importance of self-reliance, independence, individual responsibility, and “finding
 (Triandis 1991, 82). Individualists have more positive attitudes toward
strangers and outgroup members and are more likely to behave in a pro-social,
altruistic manner to strangers. People in individualist cultures are less aware of
ingroup/outgroup boundaries and thus do not have highly negative attitudes
toward outgroup members. They often disagree with ingroup policy, show little
emotional commitment or loyalty to ingroups, and do not have a sense of
common fate with other ingroup members. Opposition to outgroups occurs in
individualist societies, but the opposition is more “rational” in the sense that
there is less of a tendency to suppose that all of the outgroup members are
culpable. Individualists form mild attachments to many groups, while
collectivists have an intense attachment and identification to a few ingroups
(Triandis 1990, 61). Individualists are therefore relatively ill-prepared for
between-group competition so characteristic of the history of Judaism.

Historically Judaism has been far more ethnocentric and collectivist than
typical Western societies. I make this argument in Separation and Its Discontents
(MacDonald 1998a; Ch. 1) and especially in A People That Shall Dwell Alone
(MacDonald 1994; Ch. 8), where I suggest that over the course of their recent
evolution, Europeans were less subjected to between-group natural selection than
Jews and other Middle Eastern populations. This was originally proposed by
Fritz Lenz (1931, 657) who suggested that, because of the harsh environment of
the Ice Age, the Nordic peoples evolved in small groups and have a tendency
toward social isolation rather than cohesive groups.
 This perspective would not
imply that Northern Europeans lack collectivist mechanisms for group
competition, but only that these mechanisms are relatively less elaborated and/or
require a higher level of group conflict to trigger their expression.

This perspective is consistent with ecological theory. Under ecologically
adverse circumstances, adaptations are directed more at coping with the adverse
physical environment than at competing with other groups (Southwood 1977,
1981), and in such an environment, there would be less pressure for selection for
extended kinship networks and highly collectivist groups. Evolutionary
conceptualizations of ethnocentrism emphasize the utility of ethnocentrism in
group competition. Ethnocentrism would thus be of no importance at all in
combating the physical environment, and such an environment would not support
large groups.

European groups are part of what Burton et al. (1996) term the North Eurasian
and Circumpolar culture area.9 This culture area derives from hunter-gatherers
adapted to cold, ecologically adverse climates. In such climates there is pressure
for male provisioning of the family and a tendency toward monogamy because
the ecology did not support either polygyny or large groups for an evolutionarily
significant period. These cultures are characterized by bilateral kinship
relationships which recognize both the male and female lines, suggesting a more
equal contribution for each sex as would be expected under conditions of
monogamy. There is also less emphasis on extended kinship relationships and
marriage tends to be exogamous (i.e., outside the kinship group). As discussed
below, all of these characteristics are opposite those found among Jews.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 06:08 | 2261132 jeffgroove102
jeffgroove102's picture

That sounds really racist, and I am sure it will offend many, but you bring up a very empirical and interesting point, thanks for the thought.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:59 | 2261729 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 You're fucking WRONG and you're stupid.  JFC, scandinavia is UNABASHEDLY socialist.

Scandinavia.. yes, they're all the same, those superior Nordic whitefolk!

Consider this, Trav... Norway has shedloads of oil. Why offer Norway as 'proof' that socialism works? How about Saudi Arabia? Oh, that's right, they've got brown skin.

Sweden was one of the poorest countries in Europe, until, in the 19th century, they adopted pro- free-market policies. After which they rapidly advanced up the wealth index. They only started electing socialist governments after WWII, and these only started putting into place socialist policies in the fifties and sixties, where they had their usual, ruinous effect - Sweden's wealth, wrt to ther nations, peaked in the early 70's. Furthermore, the Swedes (and most of Scandinavia) came off very lightly compared with the rest of Europe in terms of getting their country destroyed by WWII. Wealth is accumulative, Trav. If all your neighbours get their houses blown up, and you don't, you're going to be better off than them for a long time, even if they're earning 20% more pa than you are.

You think demographics are 'everything', and politics and culture are 'nothing'? Just compare North with South Korea... or are you suggesting North Korea would be fine is it weren't for all the Africans living there?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:55 | 2262228 Reven
Reven's picture

Obviously economics and politics matter, but not as much as you think.  In Northern Europe, since they do not have too many other races with lower IQs mucking up the welfare state, it works.  One example is free college education.  Now, in a homogeneous white/asian society with no minorities with low IQs draining the resources, this type of program could actually be a net benefit.  But in a society with a high percentage of minorities with low IQs, it is doomed to waste and failure, because a large percentage of the minorities lack the mental capacity to get through college with a reasonably useful degree.  The welfare state doesn't work in Greece, because their IQ is rather low by Northern European standards.  One could argue that the welfare system is poorly designed in Greece, which is why it's failing, but I would argue that is a defect of the society and a reflection of their lower IQs as well.  Societies with high IQs tend to succeed in spite of disadvantages like socialism or poor Governments.  North Korea is obviously an example of a total failure of Government to meet the needs of the people so they can prosper.  China was another example until they opened up.

Fri, 06/01/2012 - 07:17 | 2482964 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

"'proof' that socialism works? How about Saudi Arabia? Oh, that's right, they've got brown skin."

Looks like Trav was right.

Idiots ought to shut their mouths.

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy ruled by a "holy" Royal Family (mafia). Nothing socialist about it.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:30 | 2260269 nmewn
nmewn's picture

We never had nor was it ever intended to be a democracy.

This is where you guys always split open on the are asking government (a corporation, that is, the same as Citizens United) to do your bidding for you as a person.

I'll wait while your head explodes on the differences between the rule of law and a democracy ;-)

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:56 | 2260350 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

+ 1000

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:11 | 2260399 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It might be a long wait ;-)

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:08 | 2260205 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Now we're on free trade? You start with boomers and equating them to Rand because they are narcissistic. Then you jump cut to laisse faire and that is the ill. Now you mention free trade? Where is there free trade? Do you have ADD or a brain lesion?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:15 | 2260225 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Laissez-faire" and "free trade" are peas in a pod.  Do you not have a rudimentary understanding of the topic, or are you just being deliberately obtuse because you don't want to argue the merits?  

Rand believes that the oligarchs should be allowed to do whatever benefits them.  They could care less what happens to individuals in our society.  Their own profit and their bonuses are all that matter.

The oligarchs have convinced our government to give them free reign to move production to places like China where there are no labor or environmental regulations -- laissez faire.  The cheap labor increases short-term profit and therefore bonuses.

The oligarchs are allowed to keep their money overseas and pay no taxes.

The American worker cannot compete with slave labor in a country with no regulation. 

The middle class slowly disintigrates, our economy implodes, and ideologues like you blame the middle class and their greedy desire for a working wage.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:25 | 2260259 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Find me the passage in any of Rand's books where she approves of oligarchs. Else, you are just a tool spouting off nonsense

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:33 | 2260277 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Every line of every book.  You can't see it, or you don't want to.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:38 | 2260300 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Are you sure it was Rand you were reading?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:40 | 2260306 centipede
centipede's picture

So it will be very easy for you to find an example of one line and show it here, right? :-)

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:42 | 2260312 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Ok. Here is my advise to you. Instead of trying to eat Rand, you should try READING Rand

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 05:16 | 2261101 ms1408
ms1408's picture

Free trade = "don't point guns at people for trading"

Free market = "don't point guns at people for trading"

Any rant against capitalism which doesn't address these facts is a strawman. Simple as that.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:00 | 2260170 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

the greatest ill to any society is  statism.   Lets talk about china in 5 or 10 years.  Their model is based on indentured servitude; talk about oligarchs exploiting labor and resources.  Do they have a middle class?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:37 | 2260294 jpmrwb
jpmrwb's picture

Disgruntled union employee who has never read Rand. Have another beer and walk out at look at Detroit.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:51 | 2260340 utgolfer
utgolfer's picture

Its either that or a socialist/marxist doing some work astroturfing.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:14 | 2260789 trav7777
trav7777's picture

not sure you are really gonna see in detroit what you think you are gonna see

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:54 | 2261514 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

Trav .. what you will see in Detroit  is the litmus test of social collapse and that tumor will be spreding threw out the U S A

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 05:27 | 2261107 ms1408
ms1408's picture

So tax is NOT theft?

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 06:00 | 2580027 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

" It is ironic to me that people like you don't see that our greatest ills as a society are the direct result of the laissez-faire approach that you advocate.  How is it that you think China is rising while we fall? "

It's called GUNS, son.

People get shot or beat for retalliation against central control.

Any time this happens it's strictly NOT laissez-faire markets.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:51 | 2260137 BigJim
BigJim's picture

  A very large number of politicians and oligarchs/bankers are Rand followers.

Most bankers are playing from a playbook that existed long before Rand even wrote; lend out paper, then collect value in return when the paper promises exceed any possible amount of capital their initial issuance implied.

You do realise that advocacy of limited government is much older than her? Give it a fucking rest, already.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 02:27 | 2260984 Waffen
Waffen's picture

Lets see are they more likely to follow Rand or be Jewish?


Talmudic Jews are taught that they can lie cheat and steal from us, the gentile, "goy."



Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:27 | 2260063 true brain
true brain's picture

The kicker is: they all think they are going to heaven.Jesus is waiting with open arms.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:31 | 2260075 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

the trick is giving money to your church

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:40 | 2260103 ChrisFromMorningside
ChrisFromMorningside's picture

I don't buy the Ayn Rand quip. How many Boomers have even read Rand (or even know who she is)? And how does anything that Rand wrote justify rampant debt-based consumerism? 

In my eyes, the "Me Generation" is defined by their sense of entitlement and narcissism. In my field of work, I often have to interact with fairly wealthy Boomer males. Believe me, it can be soul-crushing. Many of these guys are so self-centered that it makes me wonder whether they have any shred of humanity left in them. These are the fabled Big Swinging Dicks who get off on treating everyone like crap. Nevermind that they made their wealth by riding various central banker-created bubbles, which didn't really require any intelligence or courage necessarily. The same is true of more plebeian Boomers too. It became all about me. Not only did patriotism and national pride became an empty shell of itself, but even the family structure was dissolved during the Boomer era. It was literally dissolved for many working class families who decided that "finding themselves" was more important than "staying together for the kids." Not to mention all the wealthy households where the kids were really raised by nannies / TV / private schools. 

Coming into enormous wealth without having to work for it can always be corrupting. That's what happened to our society writ-large from 1980-present.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:23 | 2260250 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"How many Boomers have even read Rand (or even know who she is)?"

Rand has sold more than forty million books, many in the last few decades.  The narcissism you describe above is glorified in her works, and it is not coincidental that it has infected our society.  Most people are blind to it, but she really has become a major part of our world whether we like it or not.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:44 | 2260315 centipede
centipede's picture

Dangerous books. Let's burn them before they destroy our society.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:56 | 2261338 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Dangerous books. Let's pretend they have any relevance whatsoever to non-fictional society.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:52 | 2260342 jpmrwb
jpmrwb's picture

"Obectivists are not 'conservatives.' We are radicals for capitalism, we are fighting for the philosophical base which capitalism did not have and without it was doomed to perish." Ayn Rand

Unless I can feel for myself how am I to take care of all the deadbeats in the world. How much do I have to sacrifice before you are happy? Get a life and better critical thinking.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:58 | 2260564 crowdoc
crowdoc's picture

I gotta tell ya, boomers in general weren't fans of Rand.  Eldridge Cleaver, Carlos Castenada, Mao's Little Red Book,  Tim Leary, and many random and assorted socialists, mystics, and nutballs.  But Rand- no, not really.  She was usually considered a capitalist fascist weirdo by the few who wasted time on her. To know her was to hate her.  I know because I was in college then and read her.  She sucks.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:51 | 2260949 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

You have a point there, your heros, Mao, Stalin, Che, Marx, Lenin, all big supporters of the two parent family.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:49 | 2260719 malek
malek's picture

Very well described, Chris.

Don't worry, LTER will never agree with anyone's post unless it hits on his pet issue.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:38 | 2260302 spondoolix
spondoolix's picture

Generalizing in this case is dangerous.  I'm 64, own my own business (18 years), and have been out of work for 5 weeks since 1959 (yes, I started working when I was 11).  No debt, own precious metals.  some boomers weren't "typical".


good luck,


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:43 | 2260314 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Don't apologize to these assholes, one of these days they'll wake up old and some young punk will blame them for something they were powerless to change.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:51 | 2260722 malek
malek's picture

He's not apologizing, he is stating he is an exception to the rule. There always are.

Good luck to him and other exceptional ones, but the boomers in their vast majority just deserve the blame.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:12 | 2260614 ChrisFromMorningside
ChrisFromMorningside's picture

Why is it "dangerous"? I'm pretty sure any reasonable person reading this would be aware that whenever we're talking about trends that involve long spans of time and hundreds of millions of people there will be exceptions and outliers. What can really be said about the economy or about American history if we don't use generalities? Not much.

For what's it worth, I'm an outlier too. I'm part of "Generation Y," raised by Boomers. Most of my generational peers, especially those also raised by Boomers, have taken the narcissism and consumerism of their parents to new heights. I've generally done my best to avoid that nonsense. Still, it would be a mistake to pretend that therefore any generalization about my generation is false. The reality is that most of the generalizations regarding Generation Y's negative qualities are mostly true. I have to recognize that I'm in the tiny minority in not buying in.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:13 | 2260782 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

As am I at the age of 63.  I've never had a "job".   All my endeavors have been strictly entrepreneurial.

In so-called retirement I have a healthy business still.   Just not so physically demanding as in my younger years.

My retirement account is pure PMs.   No other types have proven to me that the balances were not being skimmed by the supposed fiduciary agents.

I don't need any income other than what I produce for myself.   So I'm one of the atypical boomers.  I'd like to give the credit to having a keen intellect, but, alas, that is not the case.  I'm just ornery and hate taking instructions from bosses.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:01 | 2262025 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Dear Rocky & Spoondoolix,

I say this not in a patronizing way: thanks for not being one of them. Thanks for living the American Way, not the Marxist-Entitlement Way.

Also, please try to reach out to your cohorts on behalf of future generations of Americans. Many of them still don't get it. They don't see how deep the rot has gotten. They don't see how their desires enable the plunderers. Nor do they realize the change they could galvanize if they were to give up on "Salvation through Federal Intervention."

From one Skywalker to another: "There is still good in you. I can feel it." Now let's chuck the emperor down a shaft.

Reaching across the years,



Fri, 03/16/2012 - 16:14 | 2263208 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Most of my peers are just as brain-dead as others have described here.   I've given up any hope of convincing anyone of anything.   They'll have to set their own fat arses on the hot stove for their enlightenment.   When TSHTF my doors shall be locked.   Friend, family, or neighbor -- they can all kiss my fuzzy butt.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:15 | 2260590 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



"Boomers" didn't create the Fed in 1913 and didn't close the gold window in 1971.

We "boomers" inherited those things.  

Care to cite any evidence where gen-x-ers are doing anything at all different?

Any gen-x district attorneys going after any bankers? 


Any gen-x military officers refusing to deploy to Iraq, Afghanistan, and other banker / petrodollar war zones? 


Us "boomers" didn't voluntarily enlist to go fight banker / petrodollar wars.   They had to draft us. 

We did huge anti-war protests, many filed as conscientious objectors, and some even fled to canada. 

But you gen-x-ers voluntarily enlist and happily go fight banker / petrodollar wars for those paychecks and benefits.

So which of you has any right to badmouth us? 

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:56 | 2260737 malek
malek's picture

Oh, and what caused them to not save for retirement, and later try to make it up in "get rich quick" schemes by riding bubbles - with most getting burned as always in those schemes?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:37 | 2260835 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



You mean like most of your generation won't save for retirement either?  And play just as many "get rich quick" games as our generation?  And ride just as many bubbles as our generation?

Which of your generation is refusing those NINJA loans when they can get one?  Any of you?  No, of course not. 

How much of the subprime fiasco is gen-x-ers?  The majority I suspect.

Oh, and how many of you gen-x-ers are refusing to apply for a social security number? Any at all?  Probably not.

No, you gen-x-ers aren't any better.   You're just as greedy and just as foolish and just as sheepish as us "boomers".   Perhaps more so.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:55 | 2260952 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

I know of more than one boomer family who blew retirement savings on children to get basketweaving degrees, and now have to work because the nest egg is gone. The ingrate "children" are now basement dwellers.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 05:44 | 2261112 Maghreb
Maghreb's picture

If shit gets as bad as people are saying basket weaving will be a growth industry....................

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 02:03 | 2260965 malek
malek's picture

Always the easiest excuse: you are as bad or even worse than I am!

Oh, and the lenders in the subprime fiasco also were in the majority X-ers?
Pick the facts as they suit you.

X-ers as late comers to the Ponzinomics, will end up a lot more fucked than boomers, so stop your whining.

And for the generation now entering the workforce, most will have a hard time saving anything at all - even when living a frugal lifestyle, which I am not implying all are doing.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 06:08 | 2580031 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Actually no, I think that's just trying to get funds to keep up with inflation. If you'd have jailed the central bankers instead of letting that president get shot who actually tried to back dollars with silver maybe your attempt would be noted in history as worthwhile.

It isn't.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:00 | 2261345 QuantumCat
QuantumCat's picture

Boomers rebelled against the system, then coopted it and made it worse than before.  Individually, you are not accountable, but as a generation you are.  Xers are forced to collect your trash every step of the way.  Take a look around, MAN, you are the MAN, Man...  continue to deny it, but it is what it is.   

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:50 | 2261313 QuantumCat
QuantumCat's picture

So LetThemEatRand, since you hate Rand and the concept of individual liberty, do you propose that a benevolent government can manifest from collective will and subjectively dole out social justice?  Your socialist solution won't change a thing... it will be the same corruption with a different name...the same elite colluding with governments and unions to deprive people of the fruit of their labor.  Useful idiots abound, failing to understand human nature and how power corrupts. Keep your Mao mitts off my Life and Liberty. 


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:32 | 2260275 fattail
fattail's picture

I had a finance professor wonder aloud in class in 1997 about how the stock market could go up if the largest generation of all time all turned into sellers.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 04:14 | 2261059 WryObserver
WryObserver's picture

It didn't take a genius to muse on that one. But your professor also clearly never understood the Fed then. From their point of view the stakes have always been too high to let "free" markets be free. They just don't disclose it or publicize it most of the time when they intervene.

And he probably didn't tell you that stock ownership is not real ownership, it is just a distant proxy for it. The notion of that being the only place to make money grow was obviously a myth, which the Fed actively helps to perpetuate because too much is dependent on it.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 19:37 | 2259884 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

If anyone needed MORE evidence that FIAT is a ponzi schemer's wetdream currency... just look at THOSE CHARTS!! 

FIAT allows corruption and greed... 

Attention Wal-mart shoppers: China would like to thank you for handing over the heritage, your forefathers worked so hard to attain. It was like taking candy from a baby. Wal-mart would like to thank you for forgetting your strong moral stand against communism and corruption, for the sake of everyday low prices on cheap imported junk produced in slave labor factories. Wall Street would like to also thank you for participating and allowing the whole fiasco to continue without a peep. Keep buying those cheap TV's!!!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 19:47 | 2259923 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Hey, I can remember the days when ol' Sam Walton used to brag on his own TV commercials about how many of the products in the store were made in USA.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 19:51 | 2259940 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

LMAO those were the days! As these charts prove... its too late and THEY know it

"But at least Wal-Mart is providing jobs that Americans need..." THE BEST JOKE OF THE YEAR AS TOLD BY A WALL STREET REPORTER!! LMAO!!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:35 | 2260289 fattail
fattail's picture

I don't remember the press release from walmart, announcing they were taking down all of those " Made in the USA" signs.  Those things used to be the first thing you saw when you walked into a Walmart.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:50 | 2260544 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

They were replaced by the "Rollback" signs. Ironic, eh?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 19:50 | 2259935 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

There are fools in every generation,  mine just happens to be the most heavily populated in history.  I wonder what the average age is of the homeowners who took out an assload of HELOCs on their homes, or took the liars loan that said they qualified for said mortgage loans?  I paid off my mortgage 8 years early because I worked the previous 10 years without taking any voluntary time off from work.   What say you? 

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:02 | 2259981 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

20% down, 15 year loan, paid off in 7 years, no debt to no man or woman for that matter. What say the non-bb's?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:21 | 2260041 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Non-Baby boomer here. Very modest 15 year mortgage with 10 more years to go. No CC, no car payment and between my wife and I $6,000 in student loans for 2 bachelor's and 1 associate's degrees. I will be debt free by age 40 unless I decide to take on my own home business (funeral home). I won't ever purchase another property unless it generates revenue.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:57 | 2260957 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Keep up the good work and get that remaining debt off your back ASAP. The air is much cleaner up here and you can see farther.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:01 | 2260175 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

I am 40. My home and business are paid for in full plus rental property paid in full. 60+ hours a week of work can do great things if started young. So, I think we can agree that there are good and bad money managers in every generation. It just so happens that the government the boomers voted in spent like drunken sailors and too many Americans followed their example.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:03 | 2260176 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

@ Moe,  I took a 30year in '86 and refinanced with a 15 year--bi-weekly payment-- actual 13 year term, and worked my ass off to pay it off early.  Several of my co-workers told me I was foolish to pay it off because I had no deductions.  I informed them that I also don't have a mortgage payment.  I have always lived the simple life, well beneath my middle class means.   Misery loves company, I guess.  

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 02:20 | 2260978 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

ClassicalLib17, I had people challenge me shortly after I purchase my home, I got $10K together and was going to do a principle only payment on my house. Several people at work tried to convince me to invest that money in mutal funds instead. I remember showing them on a calculator that it made more sense to pay off mortgage first, then invest, even thought it "seemed" smarter to get the "big" investment percentage. I paid down my mortgage, and guess what? That was a couple of years before the bubble burst. I had a good laugh at their "logic".

Tax deduction on house is a fool's game. Borrow money from the pigmen so you can shave a couple of points off your taxes. The math IMHO does not compute.

You said you lived the simple life, well, us Stooges did too, key thing: we never had enough deductions to itemize. We were not paying enough interest. Dang it.

Moral of the story, yours and mine, is to do the opposite of the herd. I didn't think of it that way, it was more a gut feeling back then, but now I think it is a way to go.

I spoke to my son on the telephone the other day, we were talking about money [gold etc], his economics prof [an SF LTC I think, maybe a MAJ] was challenging him about gold, making him think maybe. I told him, Little Moe, I think I got it figured out, when the herd is stampeding one way, go the other. If they are all buying stocks, buy gold. If they are all buying McMansions, get a house trailer. Challenge conventional thought. If they [authority figures etc] can justify the position with numbers and logic, not emotion and "stories" and, my favorite, group think, then fine. Otherwise do your own due diligence. His prof brought up front runner Warren Buffet. I said, "Little Moe, you think that old fithy rich frontrunning government shill got rich by giving away investment advice on TV for free?" "When Warren Buffett knocks gold, Little Moe, that's when you should purchase with both hands."

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:51 | 2260338 fattail
fattail's picture

38. 15 yr mortgage will be paid off in 12, only because my wife doesnn't want to work and we don't need the 43k she makes a year to maintain our living standard, which is below our means.  Could pay off all my debt, but don't want to liquidate my hard assets.  It's nice having options. 

Rest of my wife's family is always whining anout never having any money, or we can't go to supper cause we only have 38$ until the SSI check comes in...  Her folks are on SSI and state teachers pension.  I've told her how fucked they are going to be when the great deflation bankrupts the pensions and is followed by the great inflation that steals what little purchasing power will be left in their meager SSI checks.   Thankfully her folks remain clueless.  They were the best little consumers the gov't could have hoped for though.  They will just outlive their money.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 02:27 | 2260985 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Great job, don't ever fall into that trap they are in. I was in Satan's Homecenter the other day {lowes} and a frail old lady about 78 years old rang up my purchases. Geez, sad how bad judgement when you are young really punishes you when you are old. Glad I woke up before it was too late.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:09 | 2260775 malek
malek's picture

Just past boomer here. No debt. Never owned a house, never seriously considered buying one in the last 10 years.
If prices drop another 30% I might buy one and pay cash.

If not I'll keep renting. Currently I'm renting a condo, and of my rent payments 35% goes to the "owner" and 65% to HOA and property taxes. In other words if I bought this place my "rent" would only drop by a third. Fucking ridiculous.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 02:29 | 2260987 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Don't buy anytime soon brother worst time in history. They are going to crash this mofo even further and tax the shit out of fixed assets aka your house. Buy a popup garage and keep it in a closet just in case. Obamaville here we come.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:36 | 2262173 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Non-bb here. Got my first job out of college pimping tech stocks to greedy, clueless fools in the Great Internet Bubble. Tried to do right by my clients; told them to buy gold instead. Management wasn't interested in doing right by The Muppets: Pump 'em and dump 'em. For their part, the clients (mostly boomers) lined up millions deep to be bagholders.

The callous psychopathy of the firm & the voracious stupidity of the clients really disturbed me. It took two to tango. The Silents and the Boomers can both divide up whatever blame there needs to be.

Saw the writing on the wall. Left the country when I was 25. I'll be back if there's ever a clear chance to rebuild what Uncle Scam has currently laid waste to.

Stick around, watch TV, feed the ponzi, and pay for everybody's pipe dreams in the long twilight before total darkness falls? Forget it. I've got one life to lead, and the USSA does not have a future.

No mortgage, no debt, no handouts, no doubts. Just my brains and my balls; my wits and my will. Everything I need.



Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:05 | 2259991 espirit
espirit's picture

I also fit the boomer generation and worked hard to pay off a 30 year mortgage in 8 years knowing the good times don't last forever.  I drove junk cars, put 2 kids through college, and still live in the same house.

No Helocs, little health insurance, and a piss poor retirement plan if you can call it that.  So for those that want me to take blame for their current economic desparity, kiss my ass.

BTW - No iPod, iPad, smartphone or other junk the MSM tell me I need.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 20:53 | 2260147 Dadburnitpa
Dadburnitpa's picture

Fuckin' A brother.  Glad you said it.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 21:46 | 2260326 Rockfish
Rockfish's picture

Espirit +1

I too am a boomer, the youngest actually but none the less know the lessons learned. We saved for everything, used credit only to purchase a home (30 years in the same house).  I had to put 20% down most of the 30 and under crowd today can't scape together 2% down.  The reason is that they just have to have it all at once. After auto loan, credit card, toys, and just plain bullshit their broke.

Here's a little tune for the now genration, the snookie generation, the never fucking ending cell phone ads geration. I could go on.

by Cee-Lo Green

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