This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Chile Is Latest Country To Launch Renminbi Swaps And Settlement

Tyler Durden's picture


The dollar exclusion list is becoming bigger and bigger with every passing day as China gets ready.

For simplicity's sake here is the full list of "bilateral" arranagements in the past year as presented previously: "World's Second (China) And Third Largest (Japan) Economies To Bypass Dollar, Engage In Direct Currency Trade", "China, Russia Drop Dollar In Bilateral Trade", "China And Iran To Bypass Dollar, Plan Oil Barter System", "India and Japan sign new $15bn currency swap agreement", "Iran, Russia Replace Dollar With Rial, Ruble in Trade, Fars Says", "India Joins Asian Dollar Exclusion Zone, Will Transact With Iran In Rupees", "The USD Trap Is Closing: Dollar Exclusion Zone Crosses The Pacific As Brazil Signs China Currency Swap."

And now the latest: "China, Chile To Establish Strategic Partnership, Boost Trade... Launch Currency Swap and Settle In Renminbi"

China and Chile agreed Tuesday to upgrade their bilateral ties to a strategic partnership, and double trade in three years.


Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao and Chilean President Sebastian Pinera announced Tuesday the establishment of China-Chile strategic partnership and the completion of negotiations on investment-related supplementary deals to a bilateral free trade agreement.


China would like to be actively engaged in Chile's infrastructure construction and work with Chile to promote the development of transportation networks in Latin America, said Wen.


Meanwhile, Wen suggested that the two sides launch currency swaps and expand settlement in China's renminbi.

Read more here.

So to summarize, the list of countries that China is transacting with directly (that we know of), and bypassing the USD entirely, is as follows:

  • Japan
  • Russia
  • Iran
  • India
  • Brazil
  • and now, Chile

In other words, it looks like the BRICs already have their "bilateral" arranagements all sorted out, and are now quietly moving into other suppliers of key resources with swap deals, all without any mention of the word "dollar."

How soon until China re-dips its toe in Europe with a modest "bailout" nobody can refuse in exchange for a simple caveat: you get paid in renminbi?


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:28 | 2563393 SHEEPFUKKER


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:32 | 2563411 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

A Wen Wen scenario

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:34 | 2563718 Frozen IcQb
Frozen IcQb's picture

BRICCCs  Game On! Who's got the Puck?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:28 | 2563394 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

How soon before this hits the US in terms of inflation?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:33 | 2563416 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

How long is a piece of string?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:39 | 2563438 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

A loss of faith in a currency causes it to collapse.  One thing overlooked is that all assets are denominated in dollars, so it doesn't mean that Americans hav to decide the fate of the dollar, but everyone does.

Watch the Euro in my are getting sleepy....very sleepy....

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:29 | 2563739 Frozen IcQb
Frozen IcQb's picture

Dollars? We don't need no stinking Dollars!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:23 | 2563728 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Depends on whether your measuring from the end or the middle.

I believe thats check followed by mate ,to the Chinese team.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:26 | 2563885 potlatch
potlatch's picture

how many days is tomorrow?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:29 | 2563402 Payne
Payne's picture

What are they going to do with all those dollars they don't need? buy gold?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:58 | 2563453 moonstears
moonstears's picture

I upped you. It's my understanding that a $100,000 Tbill is great collateral for a loan, to say, buy a burger chain, mining operation, toll get the picture. And lets take a moment to thank the Clintons for sharing all that technology w our buddies in China in the 90s, which they reverse engineer and knock off, using cheaper parts, to sell back to us. They're better robber capitalists than our guys.(and I am pro sarc...just sayin'). On this topic, maybe that's why Bernanke dreads deflation, you're too far in debt to buy, you(we) US scum, he ain't "scar'd oh us" but the PROC has ample purchasing power to take advantage of $500,000 mines and $250,000 McDonalds franchises in a deflationary spiral. He's in a rock and a fuckin' hard place, methinks inflation will prevail.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:48 | 2563473 PrintingPress
PrintingPress's picture

gold, oil, houses, land, children whatever they want


Sat, 06/30/2012 - 11:51 | 2577031 SeniorD
SeniorD's picture

farmland, water rights and anything of real value...

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:31 | 2563406 knicks3005
knicks3005's picture

US is shitting BRICs

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:41 | 2563442 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

What if Europe bypassed the dollar?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:27 | 2563887 potlatch
potlatch's picture

We have airbases for that, no worries mate.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:50 | 2563480 Roscoe
Roscoe's picture

more like BRICs are shitting US...

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:06 | 2563519 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture


Wed, 06/27/2012 - 09:15 | 2564592 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I hereby nominate parent for best comment of the year.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:31 | 2563409 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

And now you know why the War Department has pivoted to the Pacific and wiill soon reopen the previously closed military bases....

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:35 | 2563424 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

the war department will find that it is mistaken, about a great many thingsssssss

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:56 | 2563491 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Kind of hard to empire-build when your currency is confetti.. unless you have a strong enough military and just take the pure scorched earth, pillage and conquest route.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:35 | 2563426 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

Yes, that and a rise of Islamism in the Pacific Rim, but mostly to bolster old-world trade ideas.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:39 | 2570548 mkkby
mkkby's picture

The war is already over, but I'm sure the idiot war department doesn't realize it.  Every fortune 500 company shipped thier plant to China.  We looted ourselves and gave it to them -- no, begged them to take it. 

What can the military do about it when they decide to nationalize the entire bundle and just laugh, saying here take back your green paper t-bonds and call it even?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:32 | 2563412 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Aw, shit.  Looks like I have to spring for that Rosetta Stone Mandarin course after all.  And if the Gods of Irony are awake, it was manufactured in China.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:32 | 2564030 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Da, I did that with Russian some decades ago, not perhaps my wisest decision.

On topic I wonder how much of this is for show to reinforce some back channel communications from Beijing to the Fed- any more QE and we're taking our ball and leaving the game. I don't buy the arguements that the Chinese are so invested in America that they won't rock the boat. That reasoning supposes that the Chinese think like Westerners, they don't. The rulers of the Middle Kingdom will be examining all the options for how they can move up the food chain during these exciting times and if a few hundred million of their people have to die so that they can become the alpha dog it won't even cause them to blink. The only thing that will matter is their evaluation of the probability of success (plus they won't want their own lives to be in jeopardy, thank you, please).

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:24 | 2564494 malikai
malikai's picture

Mostly true. I'll add that you'll know it's time when Chinese politicians and billionaires are selling their properties stateside. That's when you know their 'home instability' hedge is off and its game on.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:33 | 2563414 Darth Silver
Darth Silver's picture

nothing to see here.  move along.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:34 | 2563420 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

there really is nowhere to run to and nowhere to hide.......holding gold and silver cant even stop what is coming

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:47 | 2571597 Jash
Jash's picture

I think what's coming is far and beyond worse than anyone can imagine. A time of trouble such as has not been seen since man was on the face of the earth.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:36 | 2563429 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

While the world stared blankly at the Euro....

WHen a magician is doing a slight of hand trick, what does he do to get you to not see the trick?  He diverts your attention.....

Watch the Euro....

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:42 | 2563447 847328_3527
847328_3527's picture

I sold my house in 2008 and took a small hit (lost $56K) and bought lots of GLD and SLV....never once regretted it. The house has plunged $280,000 while slv has more then tripled and gld has more then doubled.

Poor Charlie Munger.....he must live on Alka Seltzers and Aspirin.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 11:49 | 2577024 SeniorD
SeniorD's picture


Enjoy your profits and stay healthy!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:43 | 2563454 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

USD is looking bullish.

Best of luck to those countries who are leveraged on a communist currency.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 03:27 | 2564246 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

Technical analysis in the age of coordinated central intervention and microsecond resolution bots? Shit I got better luck getting laid tonight, and I've been married for ages.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:44 | 2563456 Mr. Lucky
Mr. Lucky's picture

Not a peep in the nightly news.  All is well; the private sector is fine.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:46 | 2563464 ich1baN
ich1baN's picture

Bold move 84.... I like it.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:47 | 2563466 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

China is still buying US debt like dumbasses.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:57 | 2563652 moonstears
moonstears's picture

lol...see my comments on Tbills, they are Tier 1 collateral. This is why they keep buying them, you can borrow what, 95 cents on the dollar?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:04 | 2564146 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



see my comments on Tbills, they are Tier 1 collateral.

Not much longer.

USD became world reserve currency because (a) it was gold-redeemable at the time and (b) USA was the strongest manufacturing / exporting nation on the planet, insuring steady repatriation of USDs, maintaining woldwide demand for them.

Neither a nor b exist anymore.  No currency is gold-redeemable and China is the new strongest manufacturing / exporting nation on the planet, insuring steady repatriation of their currency, maintaining worldwide demand for it, while USDs flow out of America and flood the world, reducing their value. 

China exports real stuff.  Ok, it's cheap, but it's real stuff.

All we export now is government debt and inflation.

That factor alone guarantees diminishing USD dominance and rising Remimbi dominance (or Yuan or whatever), exactly what we're seeing. 

And there's nothing our military can do about this one, not with China and Russia being closely allied, it would be picking a fight with a giant and getting the shit beat out of ya a thermonuclear asswhoping possibly.

Don't bitch at China, go bitch at our own leaders for (deliberately?) destroying America's manufacturing base and borrowing $150 billion a month now to make up for falling tax revenue ...because they destroyed our manufacturing base ...sent it to China by the way.

China isn't destroying America's economy.  Our own government is destroying America's economy ...and our currency.  They couldn't do a better job of it if they were trying to ...which makes me believe they are.

Don't worry about Yuan or Remimbi becoming WRC. 

Worry about USD losing that status.  That's when we're really fucked.

Going around in some fantasy that USD will always be WRC because it has always been WRC (long as you've been alive anyway), is just plain arrogant, and arrogant is dumb.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 10:51 | 2565003 SamuelMaverick
SamuelMaverick's picture

Loss of reserve currency status = epic fail = wipeout for the poor and middle class in the formerly great USA.   This sucks ass.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:48 | 2563467 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

Just add some Chinese symbols to the dollar under George Washington and we will be set to go..... ? ? ??  and maybe say something like IN CHINA WE TRUST

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:48 | 2563472 XtraBullish
XtraBullish's picture

My dog makes $84/month delivering papers.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:17 | 2563546 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

"A frieend's mother makes $84 hourly on the computer."


..note to self: send dog back to grad school......

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:59 | 2563505 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Well how the hell else was I going to start buying the 100 billion in Chinese muni debt now that the whole market was banned by the Government in Beijing? I mean that's just for this year alone and for one City! So i did what the boss told me to do. You got a better idea?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:03 | 2563513 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

all without mentioned the world "dollar."


Tyler... your editing sucks balls.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:32 | 2563577 Roscoe
Roscoe's picture

FM, you may be a prolific poster, but your being here for only 6 weeks and 2 days makes you awfully impudent and rude to insult our host who graciously provides a banquet of nourishing information each day. I think it's your manners that "sucks balls" sir!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:35 | 2563587 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Just pointing out the truth. The article is great but the editing errors can make things an irritating if not confusing read.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:45 | 2563613 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

wasn't that ya oft spoke... twas it mr purfict

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:36 | 2563761 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

all without any mention of the word "dollar."


Much better, Tyler. Thanks for fixing it.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:53 | 2570683 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Everyone else noticed the editing, but only DUMBASS YOU elevated that above the central meaning.  Maybe you should focus your 1-2 brain cells, if they even function, on figuring out what's important and what's not. 

Aw, nevermind... it's hopeless trying to wake up sheeple.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:03 | 2563514 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Maybe if someone here could define the term "China" first then i might believe you! Instead i not only question your intelligence...i question your grasp of reality!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:10 | 2563531 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture
Chile Is Latest Country To Launch Renminbi Swaps And Settlement



yes and that is why syria must eat general electric depleted uranium  missiles via nato and die.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:12 | 2563533 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Have you guys thought out your "I told you speech" when the average American finally realizes how fucked they are?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:31 | 2563574 Conman
Conman's picture

It goes something like this - No i don't want to buy any apples or pencils.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:55 | 2563644 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

No, your used underwear are of no value to me. However, I will pay 1 oz of silver to tap your wife

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:49 | 2563621 tmosley
tmosley's picture

When they realize what they have done, they will look up to us and shout "save us".  I will whisper back "No."

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:17 | 2563706
Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:49 | 2563624 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture


"I'll look after your daughters if you want... good luck foraging for road kill."

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:07 | 2563679 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

"No I never bought any precious metals but I wish I had..."

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:38 | 2563911 potlatch
potlatch's picture

It is at that stage now, as far as I would be concerned.  80 work weeks, little vacation, fragile benefits and other remnants of the social contract, this *is* the hell.  Give the speech now lol.


But any farther, I doubt it would get.  Imagine, millions of children of soft parents, all slowly going through ritalin and ssri and god knows what withdrawal.  They will be devouring souls on the highways of daytime news shows and people will be going, that is what happens when you push people so hard they can no longer afford gymn memberships they rarely used.


It will be like canned rage.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:21 | 2564107 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Yeah, but it would be way too obnoxious to post here.  I've been working on it for years ever since I realized my family members are all sheep, have always been sheep, and will always be sheep.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:14 | 2563539 XOFnews
XOFnews's picture

Breaking news! BO signs Executive Order declaring war against employment. "Make no mistake, the stimulas was meant to get the unemployment rate down. We inherited more employed than we thought. I expected that many more employees would stop working and drop off payrolls" says BO. "I have made it so easy to collect benefits, I do not know why anyone who does not want to work does!"

"Working Americans should not have to work if they do not want to". The Executive Order makes it illegal for any employed citizen to complain that their taxes are too high, or their taxes pay for Mr. O's voters. "Let me be clear" says BO, "there are illegal imigrants that are willing to work", and the "Chinese are loaning us money at incresingly manipulated low rates".

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:28 | 2563564 XOFnews
XOFnews's picture

fuck, i made those quotes up. someone is pounding on my door...

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:28 | 2564019 BiggerInJapan
BiggerInJapan's picture

if you didn't hear the chopper you are lucky your house is standing. guess they found that you could pay some more taxes.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:16 | 2563544 pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

is this sign that the world is running out of dollar ? ...

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:30 | 2563569 Sleepless Knight
Sleepless Knight's picture

Its a sign that no one WANTS the dollar.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:32 | 2563578 SILVERGEDDON

Americans will be working for Milkie Bones and McTrash soonest. Balance of trade slides back to the motherland as the running dog Imperialist Yankee middle class undercut Chinese labor force in manufacturing. No shipping, no waitee, bigger corporate profits ! Ha ha ha ! You Chinese, you get flucked by America ! Ha ha ha !

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:37 | 2563590 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Why in hell don't they just call it the "Ren"?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:41 | 2563599 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

just think of it as the Ren-and-Stimpy



Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:38 | 2563592 Jason T
Jason T's picture

Sun Tsu: to have 100 victories in 100 battles is not skill.  To win 1 victory without fighting, that's skill.  



Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:40 | 2563597 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

If you like the Bernanke Dollar you'll love the Chinese renminbi

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:48 | 2563620 newengland
newengland's picture

James Sinclair warned that dollar diversification and gold accumulation would accelerate and he was vilified for his honesty.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:51 | 2563622 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

'may the great`atheist in the sky bless china with a half child born of latent bliss?'

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:49 | 2563625 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Getting genuinely worried now.  All the prior ones were easy to look at as politically motivated moves.  Chile is not.  This might be the sign of the deluge starting.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:51 | 2563629 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

To win without fighting is best.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:02 | 2563663 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Tomato/ tomato.    reminbi/YUAN!  It's the same old shit, with a wider trading band, and Japan swapping dead bodies from (WW2)!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:03 | 2563665 midgetrannyporn
Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:04 | 2563666 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture


China shares borders with 14 countries, there is cross-border trade at each border 80 percent of the volume of these cross-border trades is settled in renminbi.

95 percent of trade between China and the 10 ASEAN member countries is tax free, so many ASEAN countries accept renminbi for transactions with China.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:13 | 2563694 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I always appreciate free trade (Silver Dragon).  Pegging a currency, and renaming it with a (wider) trading band, that includes .0001% of GDP in the Asian sector! 

  I call that bullshit! Just like fake Aircraft Carriers, and Ghost Cities!  (I RED Flagged you!)

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:14 | 2563698 digalert
digalert's picture

Wonder what the peace loving NATO thinks?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:13 | 2563836 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Yeah - Chile is in the North Atlantic, right?  Just SE of Zimbabwe?


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:15 | 2563700 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

"HEY! JERRY! Leave those kids alone."- Another Bric In The (Great) Wall, Part 6

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:17 | 2563707 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Sun Tzu, BENchez.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:20 | 2563716 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Other China currency swap agreements

Australia    RMB200 billion (A$30 billion)

Mongolia  RMB10 billion

Malaysia  RMB180 billion.

United Arab Emirates RMB10 billion.

Argentina (RMB150 billion),

Belarus (RMB20 billion),

Hong Kong (RMB400 billion),

Iceland (RMB3.5 billion),

Indonesia (RMB100 billion),

Kazakhstan (RMB7 billion),

New Zealand (RMB25 billion),

Pakistan (RMB10 billion),

Singapore (RMB150 billion),

South Korea (RMB360 billion),

Thailand (RMB70 billion),

Turkey (RMB10 billion), 

Uzbekistan (RMB700 million).

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:37 | 2563764 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

That totals less than 300 billion dollars. They have a fictional 9 trillion dollar economy, similar to our fantasy 15 trillion dollar economy. Is that statistically insignificant for you yet?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:31 | 2563897 potlatch
potlatch's picture

House Harkonnen can gather as many mercenaries as it wishes, but it is clear the Navigator's Guild is interested in House Switzerland... Who.. What is their interest there, my powers are unable to penetrate.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:20 | 2563717 chump666
chump666's picture

Right, right got it.  So commodities enter a bearish downslope, China crashes with stagflation, then they do this renmibi swap while the USD goes super bid (China companies will and have been buying up huge USD forwards). 

South American/commodity countries are going down.  China just wants to price in a weaker currency (their Yuan), It's a con to keep cheap commodities flowing.

Cue miners striking, civil turmoil and political upheaval (South America) as profits are squeezed and operational costs go upward.


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:33 | 2563754 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Nice recaptcha of the /last 10 years/  666.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:39 | 2563771 chump666
chump666's picture

remember Yen,

The devil is in the details.


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:40 | 2563779 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Good on ya Chump. thanks/  Hopefully we can continue to share trading ideas, well into the future.

  I'm seeing a bottoming pattern in usd/jpy.  I'll probably start getting long (gbp/JPY) soon.

   Exporter /Q2 flows should be ending. The Japs always (LIE)!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:26 | 2563733 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Macau may as well be added to the list as it is Chinese money flooding into Macau.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:36 | 2563759 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

silverdragon   are you kidding me?    Macau is a tiny island that corrupt Asians spend (funny money)  ON!


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:33 | 2563753 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Hint: reserve currency status is a bankster trick played on sheeple.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:40 | 2563775 walcott
walcott's picture


Nuclear Explosion

Nuclear Explosion 2

wash rinse repeat a few thousand times.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:47 | 2563781 WallowaMountainMan
WallowaMountainMan's picture

am i confused. can't they all just play the market as it is? any combo they come up with, together with it's new name, i.e. rumbimirenaneseiran-avich, already is in play as that in the market. bundle this, bundle that. whatever.....

must be cost cutting per transaction. like the one china did with the fed.


any country that wants a piece of paper with its name on it, somehow tying its own currency to a government top down economy called china.....well, ok. i'll double down on the us of a.

(imagine them v us, ok.  our gov is bought and paid for by business money. they tell gov how write the rules to do business. check u.s. corp profits as result indicator. not so hot for the people, but who in the 1% are counting? china not only has a governemnt to run, but also it runs business. As in:

"i vote we make this much coal appear!" "Where should we put it?" "Out back, with the rest." "OK, but the stuff out back burst into flames two weeks ago." "Oh. Do we have insurance?" "No, but we got Japan to back us up. They're restartin their nukes. Their paper oughta be real good, if we need it."


ok. maybe is it just me. but, doesn't there just have to be a deeper game going on?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:29 | 2564017 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

No, it's not just you.  Military ambitions, fears of Party instability, western plans for valuation transitions, all play a part.  Half of that list is contemplated opaquely in Party arrangements and dreams.  The other Western half flows through contingency plans we'll never see.  Nobody notices that China has no clue how to get 300-400 million people off a $2/day lifestyle?  No one notices China's bank and regional government debt crash, loan deflation, makes the US housing-debt crash, proportionate to GDP, look like a picnic?  Gold is fine and serves a purpose, but if anyone thinks it is a key asset in an unstable world in which resources used in industry serve an even more important role, they haven't experienced the commandering of commodities and labor in a crisis. 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:49 | 2563787 shanearthur
shanearthur's picture

This newsletter I get keeps saying that Geithner and the U.S. government want the Chinese currency to take over so our dollar devalues and it's easier for us to pay back our debts. What's everyone's take on that?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:53 | 2563799 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

they need to devalue and devalue big time, this just seems like an idea that is floated around at some think tank.  They really do need to devalue the dollar without anybody noticing though, without anybody else taking its place...

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:01 | 2563974 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

The Bush Administration wanted the Chinese currency to double while our dollar would be worth half as much. Democrats and Republicans agree on that. I think they agree on that because the Federal Reserve decided that they should agree on that. If everything doubles in price at Walmart, then I see the pitchforks coming out. I don't think the presidents and congressmen care because they already have their ranches picked out in Uruguay and the Dominican Republic and such. Probably already have a large amount of their wealth converted to the foreign currency and are anxious to see the dollar drop the way the Federal Reserve plans it will.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:49 | 2563790 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Yen Cross,

Thanks for the heads up ref the red flag, but I am not in primary school anymore.

True free trade is the way forward.

China currently trades with most countries, that trade volume is growing.

China will eventually do all trade in Renminbi with all its trading partners. As China makes everything and trades with most countries, that doean't leave that many transactions left for the dollar.

It will make sense for India, Brazil and Russia to do the same as much as they can.

That leaves even less tranactions for the dollar.

The Euro will also be used in European related transactions.

That doesn't leave many transactions for the dollar.

That kinda guarantees the death of the Dollar or maybe just "the mother of all kicks in the nuts"

PS It is probably best not to fixate on Aircraft carriers and Ghost cities, it may distract you from the cost of having a dozen carriers that the US can't afford and a US property market that hasn't started going down yet. That's why articles are written on such subjects, to distract you, its called misdirection.


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:59 | 2563812 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

silverdragon     Have China and Japan finalized their (JOINT TRADE) swaps agreement?  It was supposed to be finalized in June 2012.

China is lowering (rrr) requirements, (again)? and the YUAN is what I don't trade in F/X.  The 6 daily fixings, in Yuan are hardly free floating?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 00:16 | 2564002 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

The value of all the swaps in [laugh] dollars is actually quite low.  It isn't surprising that China finds it wise to set up swap lines with countries we place sanctions upon or who ship commodities to China which need to keep flowing despite possible US conflict with China in the future.  China certainly does not "make everything."  It is difficult to think of a sophisticated CPU or DAC they make on which we cannot pull the plug, and that business is moving out of China every quarter.  I am amused that you suggest China will trade with Europe in Euros, given your elsewhere-stated belief that the Euro is toast.  Sneering at the aircraft carriers [and subs too, I assume] reflects a different world than I live in, one in which such projection, and ultimately force, is not unlikely to play a role if only to enable the stabilization of nearby regions if Chinese refugees become a problem.  Cheerleading the use of Renminbi, a currency of a totalitarian dictatorship, is a bit peculiar for a trader.  Of course we may see a successful devolution of Party power, but the odds aren't good.  If free trade ever does come to China without co-located party cadres making decisions even in the foreign-listed companies, we are well prepared to engage the opportunity.  I welcome open trade in the Renminbi should it ever occur and wish success to those risking struggle for Free Speech in China.  It will be years before Renminbi trade equals that of Deutsch Mark trade circa 1995 in summed trades per year.  They can buy my lumber in any currency they wish, at the right exchange rate.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:51 | 2563796 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

I just hope the occupiers understand it was our rulers and not us...I come in peace.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:56 | 2563807 Rockfish
Rockfish's picture

Gold is gold whether in  CNY or USD

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:23 | 2563869 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I think eur/xau is your best bet. I won't discuss the dynamics.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:04 | 2563817 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

Made In China

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:35 | 2563904 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

It would be great of the author made a complete list of all the countries that are doing currency swaps with China.  While they are at it mention the border countries that trade with China in cash Renminbi. Do the ASEAN analysis ref trade. Add to that all the Renminbi tourism. Add in all cash transactions going on in the 200 countries that trade with China, most importantly the second and thrid world ones where Renminbi businessmen use cash. Throw in Hong Kong and Macau and a bit of analysis ref cash Renminbi transactions.

Would be an informative read.

it may even provide a bit of understadning for those that don't currently understand what is going on in the Renminbi world.


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:47 | 2563934 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 It would be "Great" if you could explain why "local" lending was made ( YUAN) again.

   Pulls the Rabbit out of that hat?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 23:58 | 2563965 Jonny poor boy
Jonny poor boy's picture

The true litmus test for the US$ versus Renminbi will be when a western commodity country and friend of the US, joins that list of Renminbi trade this space, Australia will be the one, probably the state of South is just about to sign a trade MOU with China and it needs to develop its market share of resources from Australia going to China

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:21 | 2564108 chump666
chump666's picture

I feel sorry for Australia.  It needed to inflate a capex mining boom to offset it's housing bubble all the while it has to sell it's bonds to fund everything.  House of cards.

When the AUD crashes should take out Australian bond markets.

As for USD weakness.  You'll need the Fed to QE3 a trillion every month ad infitum.  But I don't think we are going to make it QE4/5/6/7 or whatever.

The system is ready to blow.  USD bids (overbought at the moment though) to the system collapse.  Then it's just gold and maybe some rare booze.

If China caves in and Europe finally realizes it's dead.  The Fed will print likel no tomorrow.  Will be interesting to see what will rally and if USD is sold to hell.  It might not be...

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 03:27 | 2564245 Jonny poor boy
Jonny poor boy's picture

unfortunately the housing bubble in Oz is only the symptom of a series of other bubbles like salaries for miners in remote areas, and any medical doctor in Oz earns many multiples of the national average salary. In the meantime the US is stoking a massive monetary base to head to a full weimar result and i agree with you holding PM's is just about all you can do, the inherent danger of holding rare booze is both a good and bad idea at the same time ...when the shit hits the fan you need something to take the pain away and just reach forwhatever is closest.....or the kids pinch it to take to a party, did that one myself a long time ago and still hear about it

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:12 | 2570821 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Once Europe crashes and bottoms, the euro becomes the safe haven for money.  Then it's all over for USD reserve status.  That could take a very long time, judging by how long Greece has drug on.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:20 | 2564106 Gamma735
Gamma735's picture

Is it legal to burn the dollar as a source of heat?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:29 | 2564117 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

When it takes $100 to buy a loaf of bread, then yes.  By that point, there won't be a government any more.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:56 | 2564535 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Every cloud has a silver lining!          Tuco

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:14 | 2564171 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Then one would expect the US knocking down their front door for doing so in the next administration.

Bypass the dollar, become the next warzone.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 03:58 | 2564266 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

If the Chcago School of Economics has taught Chileans anything, other than democracy can be solved with an army, it is that

'f%&&k while the f^&$%king is good'.

As the US screwed with them, they can use China to screw with the US dollar, which is on the way to toilet-roll- grade paper.


Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:17 | 2564276 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture


Jonny poor boy

"The true litmus test for the US$ versus Renminbi will be when a western commodity country and friend of the US, joins that list of Renminbi trade this space, Australia will be the one, probably the state of South is just about to sign a trade MOU with China and it needs to develop its market share of resources from Australia going to China"

Australias total trade with China is about 110 Billion, they have already signed off on an agreement for a 30 billion currency swap.
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:37 | 2564291 Hermann
Hermann's picture

All this talk of individual countries and currencies is a distraction. The centre of it all is the parasitic race who have taken over almost every country and control all central banks, media, industry, everything! Widespread knowledge of that is the achilles heel, and nothing else.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:06 | 2564331 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Oh, you mean HUMANS. Surely a race that can't be won.


Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:25 | 2564348 falak pema
falak pema's picture

new alternative order in the making in front of our eyes!

While Eurozone melts and US zone prints and twists on Zirp, the rest start building efficient monetary fire walls.

Key to this trend stays medium term ME oil kingdoms, if they turn its end Pax Americana!

Whence, the lynchpin is Saud! and the fight to control Iran trend in this new axis direction is vital to USA as contagion here is dynamite to first world oil pipeline. Fiat empires of USD/EURO (DM/FF) lose their hold. 


Wed, 06/27/2012 - 06:35 | 2564365 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

falak, the eurozone is not melting. in fact, the eastern EU countries that don't belong to the eurozone all want to be part of the decisions that will be taken in the EU Council format, strenghtening this very format.

This has been clearly stated by the governments of Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Lithuania and Lettland. Remember: the only countries that have clearly stated that they will never joing the euro are the UK and Denmark. All the others still want to join, and are therefore keen on keeping the EUR discussions on the EU Council's table.

all this "melting" is just financial propaganda, believe it as you want - the Easterners don't

we are in a currency war, that simple - expect propaganda en masse

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:30 | 2564498 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Ghordius, I hope your are right. But the music coming out of Italy/Spain is awesomely strange and ominous; witness Monti-Berlu squabble, and Rajoy's remarks about Spain's bond yields being unsustainable.

I am extremely aware of the currency war and hype around it, but the dissensions at the top of EUrozone bode no well. This coming meeting is a 12th hour last chance. You mention those who WANT to join. My concern is about those who are ALREADY in there and see their house burning because of this impossiblle conundrum between mutualising debts and its trade-off with controlling fiscal discipline through dismantling of sovereign rights. Tower of Babel in unending recrimination. Its the cart before the horse in Euroland and time is running out as the market makes no concessions, all dressed in its Apache war paint. 

Soros moment or Kairos moment?

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 10:22 | 2564867 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Well, the Italian squabble is easy to explain: Beppe Grillo entered the fray by asking that Italy should leave the eurozone. Berlusconi tried to steal his thunder by asking the same. Meanwhile he is retreating from this position since the polls showed the Italians positioning themselves firmly in the skeptic-but-we-want-it camp, particularly in the conservative electorate. Italy's politics always contain a certain amount of theatrics...

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 09:23 | 2564618 _underscore
_underscore's picture

...meanwhile back on planet Reality, Italy, Spain, Greece, Ireland etc, etc. (and soon, France) find it impossible to compete long-term with German productiivty & prudence. So, how do you think Romania, Czech Rep. Bulgaria etc,  will pan out? Are Herman Van Whotsiname in disguise?

The EU zone aspirers you mention have no possible current interest in espousing anti-EU views - they trade & benefit from EU zone already - why would thet upset the current cabal by being 'anti' EU in their supposed pro-EU sentiments. The proof, as they say, is ni the eating. I think we'll see, just as the SNP in Scotland currently, that once the choice has to be made the lunacy of the EU moetary zone idea will be exposed & rejected.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 03:03 | 2567501 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

_underscore, a little detail: they are already in the EU. They aspire to join the EZ, i.e. the EuroZone, i.e. they want to have the EUR, eventually. The EUR, the "doomed" currency.  Sorry, you have not understood what we are writing about here.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 07:16 | 2564397 reluctant_genius
reluctant_genius's picture

such a beautiful name -Renminbi -  Poetic.  When $ sounded really insensitive..

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:33 | 2564505 stiler
stiler's picture

soooo, who's holding renmimbi as a half-way hedge in their bank acc't??

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:34 | 2564510 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Live Free Or Die

And buy as much physical silver as you can, before everything resets.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 08:49 | 2564527 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

Wen says: "I Ren you money"....

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 09:18 | 2564604 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

It means less economic power for the US and in particular, a smaller pool of dollars from which to embezzle wealth by ongoing dilution due to money-printing.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!