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China Fires Back At US Senate Which May Have Just Started The Sino-US Currency Wars
A few hours ago, the maniac simians at the Senate finally did it and fired the first round in the great US-China currency war, after they took aim at one of China's core economic policies, voting to move forward with a bill designed to press Beijing to let its currency rise in value in the hope of creating U.S. jobs. As Reuters reports, "Senators voted 79-19 to open a week of Senate debate on the Currency Exchange Rate Oversight Reform Act of 2011, which would allow the U.S. government to slap countervailing duties on products from countries found to be subsidizing their exports by undervaluing their currencies. Monday's strong green light for debate on the bill bolsters prospects it will clear the Democrat-run Senate later this week, but prospects for action in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives are murky. If the bill did clear both chambers, it would present President Barack Obama with a tough decision on whether to sign the popular legislation into law and risk a trade war with Beijing, or veto it to pursue a more diplomatic approach." The response has been quick and severe: "China's foreign ministry said it "adamantly opposes" a bill pushed by the U.S. Senate that will allow the United States to impose duties on countries that undervalue their currencies." And just because China is now certain that the US will continue with its provocative posture, most recently demonstrated by the vocal response in the latest US-Taiwan military escalation, we would not be surprised at all to find China Daily report that China has accidentally sold a few billions in US government bonds... just because.
Reuters explains why this is one issue in which the Senate and Congress may actually agree:
Passage of the bill by the Democratic-controlled Senate would send it to the House, which is run by traditionally free-trade-friendly Republicans.
A China currency bill passed the House last year with 99 Republican votes, but lapsed because the Senate took no action. This year, the bill already has more than 200 House co-sponsors and this week supporters expect to reach 218, the number needed to pass it.
However, House Republican leaders have not shown a great appetite to pursue currency legislation, and it is unclear if the bill would ever face a vote in that chamber.
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, a key player in deciding whether the chamber will take up the bill, did not tip his hand on Monday, telling reporters he was watching the Senate debate and "curious, really, where the White House is on that."
Cantor, who voted against similar legislation a year ago, said he was "really interested to hear what impact that move will have and if there are any unintended consequences that may result."
Critics of the bill, including U.S. business groups, warn that the legislation, if enacted, would risk a trade war with China -- one of the fastest-growing markets for U.S. goods -- at a time when a sputtering global economy can least afford it.
The trade war may have already started:
The Emergency Committee for American Trade called the bill "a highly damaging unilateral approach that will undermine broader efforts to address China's currency undervaluation."
It also said the bill was unlikely to pass muster at the World Trade Organization and would open the door to Chinese retaliation "to the detriment of U.S. exports and jobs."
And if there is one thing China hates more than anything, it is being presented with no diplomatic choice, and appearing to bend to the will of D.C.
China rejects outside criticism of its yuan policies as interference in a sovereign decision and note that the currency has appreciated about 30 percent since 2005.
While similar bills have foundered in the past, jobs are such a hot topic heading into next year's U.S. elections that prospects may have shifted.
"On issue after issue, China is mercantilist, plain and simple," Democratic Senator Charles Schumer told the Senate.
Alas, when dysfunctional scapegoat politics enter into the equation, the worst possible outcome is guaranteed. Sure enough, China already responded:
In a statement posted on China's official government website (www.gov.cn) on Tuesday, foreign ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu warned the United States not to "politicise" currency issues.
He said the United States was using currency as an excuse to adopt protectionist trade measures that violated global trading rules.
"By using the excuse of a so-called 'currency imbalance', this will escalate the exchange rate issue, adopting a protectionist measure that gravely violates WTO rules and seriously upsets Sino-U.S. trade and economic relations," he said. "China expresses its adamant opposition to this."
Ma Zhaoxu repeated Beijing's position that it will continue to gradually reform its currency policy, "strengthening the flexibility of the renminbi exchange rate."
He urged U.S. legislators to "proceed from the broader picture of Sino-U.S. trade and economic cooperation" and "forsake protectionism".
However this ends, one thing is certain: it's all downhill from here, as both sides now push their luck to see just how far either one can go in the increasingly more tenuous Nash Equilibrium without the other one defecting, or being perceived as having done so.
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To see how your shit head Senator voted (both mine voted Yea) Google S. 1619. Also what a bad joke ZH is becoming. Conveying emotion like China will do this or that devoid of any fact like something as simple as the damn number of the bill. Like all media ZH is being rapidly corrupted. The owners will soon "liquidate" (maybe reloacate it to the East) the business in high German fashion and then it will be about as valuable as Huffington Post. Capitalists devoid of any tincture of social conscience ARE the problem.
Aside from your disliking capitalism (which I have no opinion of/on- I'm neutral), what leads you to state that China wouldn't do "this or that?"
I mean, let's be clear here, these are DISCUSSIONS of POSSIBLE FUTURE events. No one is claiming ANY facts, other than that China holds a ton of US Treasuries and that it's not happy about the US condemning Its behavior when the US's behavior isn't so stellar. Fire and fuse, some things one can draw a fairly probable outcome of: I don't think that any outcome is going to be that of an application toward "water rescue."
As far as what the "problem" is, I'd say that you're missing the BIG PICTURE: THE "problem" is conducting ourselves as though we don't live on a finite planet. I'm no fan of excess (I tend to agree with Mother Nature on this point), but if you think that the "Capitalists" are rich and us lowlies are poor I'd like for you to reconsider YOUR position in the world: 2/3 of the world's population lives on $3/day or less (my wife is from this population). And my personal opinion of A "problem" is that there's far too many people running around telling others what they should and shouldn't do (and I find it that most are hypocrites).
Yep, US makes stuff more expensive for the peon people and piss off China that has reducing trade surplus with US, therefore, don't buy so many Treasury bonds, right at a time that Fed has artificially driven rates down . . . but only if investors keep rolling over at these rate.
Uh-oh. Another example of the incredible economic illiteracy and lack of understanding of markets in Washington, manipulated or otherwise. This will not proceed well for anyone. The vortex is coming. Not trying to be dramatic here, but it will seem the stuff of fiction. It will really be scary.
US politicians feel they can bully China without consequence because they think the Fed will buy all the Treasuries that are no bid. They will crater the US economy if they piss China off, oh wait, it's going to crater anyway. Hey, this may not be such a bad idea.
China manipulates, we manipulate. They send us lead filled toys, we send them worthless paper.
This economic cold war has been going on for a while now.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. Easier to paint the bad guys on the outside than those on the inside ("sacrificing" your own workers in favor of trying to manage/prop up a failing economic system).
The arrows have been heavily pointed at the Fed. Our "leaders," who cater to Club Fed, wish to redirect those arrows, and China ("communists" that they are- still plenty of propaganda power lurking), who holds our debt, is a great lightening rod: lightening is going to happen anyway.
The vortex is coming. Not trying to be dramatic here, but it will seem the stuff of fiction. It will really be scary.
I've been thinking I live in a sci fi movie for months now with the news articles online.
Any bets who is going to win this pissing contest??
It's China's to loose. Although sooner or later you accumulate enough debt to make the lender the prisoner of the debtor
Hi Dr. Engali.
I agree it's China's to lose.
US is holding a pair of 2s. China holding two pair. Tricky part is the US owns the casino, for now.
Silly almost, if so many current U.S. jobs were not at stake. Think of all the US jobs that depend on cheapy China products that float to our ports. Unloading, sorting, trucking companies, train companies, fuel stations, warehousing, distributing, local trucking, unloading, stocking, sales clerks, accountants, administrators, managers, logistics, inventory, maintenance, advertising, etc.
Now imagine Walmart store shelves minus cheapy China.
Am not defending our trade arrangement with China. Actually, I believe our arrangement is a national security nightmare. But, here we are.
Bottom line: Creditor nations have the edge over debtor nations.
yeah but when you're holding as many IOUs as china, you're essentially our little bitch. fuck china. they can all die eating their lead-filled plastic rice for all i care.
U.S.
Never bet against the long term vitality of the U.S. China collapses from within in less than 20... No, make that 15 years. They are poisoning themselves to death (polution; lack of habitable land; internal strife: Hun Chinese vs. Everyone else). They aren't going to last. They aren't going to make it.
I can't wait for jobs to come to the U.S.. Full Employment - aint that a bitch, huh? Just like when Clinton was President.
Everything eventually collapses. Just as it was with the U.S.S.R., it'll likely prove to be a benefit over those still playing the game and holding the same old cards.
I'll continue to state that China will collapse due to its greater than impossible growth rates. China doesn't have the natural/physical resources in which to maintain/sustain it's current trajectory. I tend to believe that foisting capitalism+auto-centric-culture on them was actually a brilliant plan to drive the "commies" over a cliff: hey! the consumer economy has proven to be a great tool for controlling people, as displayed here in the US (greater dissent in China than in the US because of this).
The jobs that everyone figures will magically "return" to the US I cannot figure out. What jobs? Further, the energy crunch (energy constitutes roughly 50% of US's trade deficit) is smacking down growth, and, eventually, growth stalls and reverses, in which case you've got economies of scale operating in reverse, and, well, good luck with that!
It's official. The country is run by a bunch of ass clowns.
if i could have one wish...
i wish alot of our officers and office holders....would stop acting like junior enlisted men...
it is a junior EM's job to take and obey orders...
it is an officers job to take responsibility for his office...
and NOT obey orders contrary to law AND the U.S. Constitution....
they gave thier OATH to GOD....
a PROMISE....
i wish alot of our officers and office holders would stop acting like junior enlistedmen....
You and I both know that it's the character of the man -- not the cluster, bars, or stripes he wears.
We unfortunately have a bunch of men that either lack the chartacter of a true officer or have no idea what we are even talking about....
They took an oath to the Constitution, not to Man in Sky.
And they even have their own cereal! http://www.bored.com/photos/assclowncereal.html
The trade war started thirty years ago. We've just been losing. If we call it a tit-for-tat Value Added tax then China will have no recourse because they add a VAT and piles of other fees against anything imported from the U.S.
I'm sure a excise tariff in China would really hurt all two of the US companies that export goods to them.
I don't know exactly how we've been losing the trade war; we've been giving the Chinese and the Arabs and the Germans worthless pieces of paper for years and they give us oil and cheap shit to sell to Walmart and weird fetish porn. I think we've been suckering them pretty good.
The path of the imbalances for the US was pretty much set much earlier, and became visible in the early 70s. Peak oil production in 1971. Start of pure fiat also in 1971. Start of trade deficit in 1975: took a few years for the pre-1971 trajectory to give way.
It's all about the battle for resources. The US's deficits are largely the result of military spending, which is primarily focused on securing energy (the claim is to maintain free trade, but it's the US who ensures it gets the energy, and others to get it fairly cheaply in order that they have money to purchase US products). Strangely, China has used a more capitalistic approach toward obtaining the physical resources it "needs" (with perpetual growth it's a certainty that needs will eventually fail to be met).
Looks like guns and global currency manages to eek out for the short-term.
"Lets get it on" bitches
Just this time we're the 45 yo has-been, and China is the hungry challenger that killed his last match.
Mutally assured destruction, China holds too much US paper to come out of this standing. They complete eachother.
As if we don't have enough damn problems.
Bernanke has the technology that's called printing press. Too bad the printers have to be imported from China though.
Does anyone on ZH read Benjamin Fulford?
Is that the guy who thinks radiation isn't a problem in Japan?
Wikipedia says that he is claiming that the Fed & other shadowy groups of financial elites are planning the eruption of the Mt. Fuji volcano using HAARP.
Edit: here is the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Fulford
Fuck, we're not going to revert to offering sacrifices to volcanoes again, are we? Are people going to fall for that shit again?
All the HAARP and contrails stuff, well, I'm not thinking that anyone has any ability to reliability control any such genie. Hell, it's well known (OK, by those with a brain) that chemical weapons aren't reliable, that that's why they really aren't used: officially they're NOT WMD, a distinction reserved only for nukes.
As soon as you start seeing the wealthy moving away from areas that have views of Fuji is when it might be time to reconsider...
I remember picking a fight with my loan shark. He kicked the shit out of me and charged me thirty points on top of the vig.
Was he Chinese?
So, it is better to run trade deficits until when?
For as long as I can get away with it, said the Greek politician.
Make something foolproof and they will invent a better fool.
Good one :)
Nice cog.
Good thing there are no US companies manufacturing all their products in China...er..I mean...uh...Good thing there are not many companies listed on the S&P 500 that make most of their products in China...er..um...uh...I mean...This is bullish right?
All you need to do is to disassemble your GE washer/dryer, or GE fridge. You will be surprised.
"All you need to do..."
Is this a normal thing to do?
Are we all paper pushers by now?
I don't know if it's normal or not, but I've done it, and I'm sure I'll do it again. Household appliances are actually really simple, and a guy with a set of sockets and a screwdriver can fix most problems with them. A lot of times, a little grease on a moving part, a new belt or reconnecting a loose wire is enough to save a few hundred bucks.
That used to be normal for an American, but I gather the new way is to just toss it out and buy a new one. Too bad that doesn't seem to be working out for us so well anymore- might be coming back into fashion soon.
What, you can afford to pay someone to repair them?
Everything made in China self-disassembles and heads for the landfill. So they shouldn't be surprised when the dollar does the same.
Good thing our economy hasn't been decimated by sending manufacturing jobs overseas so that the CEOs and executives of the S&P 500 companies you mention can have bigger bonuses.
And what's the excuse of all the other nations whose economies are tanking?
It's an overblown myth about the "lost jobs." People want stuff cheaper. I'm not thinking that those iCraps are being constructed by thousands of Chinese on an assembly line, no, it's fucking robots!
But, yes, greater profits for the BIG folks, this is new? They're giving us cheaper products, aren't they? They're maximizing efficiencies, isn't this good? (well, yes, externalizations of costs and all, environment etc.)
As I noted previously, in the MACRO it's all a wash. Cheaper products means that folks in the US have more money to buy other stuff. Obviously this fails at some point, like at the point that we can't have our cake (livestyles) and eat it (a decent environment) too. Resources in decline (esp energy) trumps all: we're ruled by the conservation of energy laws.
"we would not be surprised at all to find China Daily report that China has accidentally sold a few billions in US government bonds... just because."
Isn't that the point of the bill? The minute China starts selling assets (or stops accumulating foreign reserves), the "peg" is effectively over.
China's in a rougher spot than us (particularly for exporters), I think. With a weakening euro on top of anemic developed world demand, their govt is facing a coup if the status quo isn't maintained. In this case, I'd put my money on the US congress. So much of this current economic environment (1995-present) is on the back of this very economic status quo. Flip it around, and I think good things may follow.
Bingo. At least 1 person on this board gets it.
America, the only game in town.
"The stars at night, are big and bright..."
<clap!clap!clap!clap!>
...
I think that was your cue
Deep in the heart of Texas!
More theater for the masses. Looks like representitives are representing, when they are raping.
It matter not if china sells its US ts. Tariffs bitchezz!
Mr. Smoot and Mr. Hawley would be proud.
"Mr. Smoot and Mr. Hawley would be proud."
Indeed - Smoot - Hawley did such a great job pulling us out of the First Great Depression, didn't it?
ok, Sen Reid, let me know how that whole jobs thing goes when the 30-yr shoots back up over 6% and input costs for nearly everything gets jacked 25%. should be just what housing and consumers need.
you are aware the US barely makes anything anymore, right? clown.
He's just a puppet in this, like all the rest. Someone had to feed him a talking point over a steaming plate of Twinkies, right? (Assuming he can still read...)
remember, he who has the gold, wins! place your bets on who hath more!
they deserve each other.
without the other one defecting, or being perceived as having done so.
Missed an "a" in defecting, I think
My magic crystal 8 ball can see the Bernank, the Geethner, Billary and maybe even the Buffett schedule quick overnight trips to Hong Kong.
Many American companeis export goods to China; Ford, Nike, GM, HP, Dell, Anheiser-Busch, Avon, and the list goes on. This won't hurt them badly though, the 30% import tarriff already in place means that most Chinese can't or won't buy these products. Even being a well paid American expat I can't afford some of those things here in China or won't buy them because the price is too high and an adequate alternative exists for a lower price. My wife and I do own an import car though becuase I don't trust Chinese car manufacturers at all. Most Chinese can't afford imports and even if they can don't buy them because alternatives exist.
Some ZH'ers are spot on about the China situation including 1 in this thread. Most others have no idea about the situation in China. I've lived here for almost 6 years including pre-Olympic days, have friends in the government and in the party. Make no mistake - the Chinese government is far smarter than the US CONgress and also hold their cards close to their chest.
China? The country is crashing in real time.
A commie government steering a capitalist economy with fudged stats on top...yeah very inspiring. Point 1. China stocks/YUAN on a massive liquidation + Copper decimation = China is done.
Point 2 = The end.
I will bet anyone here an ounce of gold that China will be the world superpower in 20 years. It sure as hell won't be America. Everybody who is not living in the USA knows this.
I always thought US globalist/'free trade' politicians did more to enrich and empower china than china could ever do on its own.
Right, right...I got it, a 100% corrupt communist based economy that created the mother stimulus program to build, get this, million of apartments + malls, train stations is somehow going to be a world power??? Forget it. China doesn't innovate, it copies. Yes I know people that work there do business over there. You wanna talk leverage, the mainland Chinese are obsessed with it. Funny part, only to churn out more junk, build more apartments and sell...yes more junk.
China is going to implode (if it isn't already), if you are alive in 20 odd years, maybe something magical will happen over there. In there meantime. They are done. Same with Japan, finished.
--
I'm living in the USA, but I've never been one to follow the sheeples. I've always been a bit of loner.
Much easier to see things objectively when you don't have anything at stake with the delusions of conventional wisdom. Madmen all around me. Wide-eyed and eager for spectacle, all the while they're being pushed further and further down the totem pole;
but it doesn't matter--just smile--and act "normal" like all the other idiot-fool Americans: inoffensive little chattering hens that have no clue about anything.
I'm thinking that lobbyists don't control them, so, BIG, points there.
Energy is THE key. Forget the issues about trading finished goods: eventually everyone will be more localized, and it'll boil down to what resources one has locally. Lots of China can work with low energy inputs: hard to say the same for the US. But, w/o lots of energy imports China's govt will find it hard to push the industrialization/modernization meme (that's been a big carrot).
Protectionism begins. All going according to plan.
I seriously doubt that it's a desired plan, nor that the control is really in the hands of mortals. This is Mother Nature's edict/plan: the global economy required perpetual growth, something that could never be sustained.
That which cannot continue forever, won't. Got sustainability?
Politicians, giving Simians a bad name for 10000 years and counting.
Doomsday trade is on, markets are going to be smashed into 2012. Trade war should lead into geo-political tensions.
Just what we need, a war with an enemy aka China, with enough surplus male population to simply flood the US with a land assault, and friends in Russia more than tired of the USA's shit. Could be WW3 bitches.
Cold war 2. I am thinking China/Tawian and China/india...
Oil should be bid, Maybe gold too.
Land assault? You can't be serious, and if you are do some research, Sheesh.
Was in jest...still, if Russia gave them support, they would have the capacity for an amphibious assault... and an air assault, etc. Russia could always re-elect Putin... and Russia could Launch an Nuke right in the middle of the US in the Upper atmosphere for a nifty EMP effect that would fry our precious Ipads and Ipods and cause mass histeria akin to Nancy Graces nipple slip. :P
No, planes re: Taiwan, hence China's new aircraft carriers and stealth bombers. Then land assault. India, well, it may happen somewhere near Vietnam/China waters. India now are allies with Vietnam for oil exploration, so that would be the other flash point.
And all these makes would get here wearing bathing suits and flippers. Get serious the pacific ocean would be blood red. Nunca pasa! Milestones
I junked you.. Do they plan to swim across the Pacific? Russia, those drunks, get a clue..
hahahahaha ah sh*t ZH posters are funny people. Spilled my tequila grrrrrrr
Obama will find a solution. No crisis, no collapse.
Ipods won't be so cheap bitches.
Not that anything Mac is "cheap"
Would you like your ipod with or without lead and mercury / other heavy metals? It's cheaper! It's designed in California and made with slave labor in China. Greatest American Company EVER!
you mean they could actually find buyers for those worthless bonds???
Here's another article speaking about the impending doom:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-03/china-currency-measure-sending-a-message-advances-in-senate.html
http://printbuttonmoney.blogspot.com
once again!
at least 1,200%+++ leverage (before Panda Bonds were floated) on every Renminbi.. before the ink dries.
SO WHAT DOES THE U.S. GAIN??? NOTHING!!!
What does China Gain?? A stabilized Currency.. along with our Manufacturing Base of 11 MILLION JOBS!!(and the tax base that left with it $7 to $14 Trillion over the last decade {we are in year 11} has been {for a few lobby dollars to the boys on the "Hill"} GIVEN AWAY!)
The U.S. Dollar has 120%+++ Leverage placed against it..
We are Stabilizing China.. Nothing More and Nothing Less..
WAKE UP!! it is OLD NEWS!!
Constitution for the united States of America; Article 1 Section 8; The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; ...
The Senate allocates a week to debate something decided 235 years ago. Progress!
Moving forward...
If US slaps tariffs on Chinese made imports then consumer prices in the US will rise leading to reduced margins for retailers leading to layoffs. But this is what the US needs in the long run as our economy is too heavily geared towards consumption while production lags.
maniac simians = classic
The dollar stores will now become the $10 stores, and Americans will have less money for other essentials. thus less consumerism, more unemployment. Our pols need an "occupy Congress" moment. I would have hoped the OWS was real but it turns out that it is just another psyop of the unions, Media Matters, the Tides Foundation. Wayne Rathke and Soros.
No it's not, that's just some Alex Jones retardation you're spouting. The OWS people come from all walks of life.
Except for the 1%, that is.
Oh dear, how frightening. We might have to start making stuff instead of being consumers of plastic shit from china
More of our government pretending to do something about jobs, when the real problem is all the shit stink eminating from D.C.
Blame someone else....when things get bad hard to look in a mirror.
Wait until China taxes USA financial firms doing business in China.
Sparks will fly!
Schumer and his Biddies forget,
Action = Reaction
...and that reaction can bite you in the A**
The red phone is for pinkos and commies only...
No offense PulauH, Tunga not sure what a pinko is.
I can't wait
Here is the key, the US makes crap that people don't want, cars for one. From Der Spiegel...
The US government manufactures fancy pieces of paper called "Treasuries" and sells them to China (among others). If the Chinese stop buying them, then lots of government workers might need to be laid off.
So, tariffs on Swatches and Nestle candy?
Fucking Chinese are getting lazy. Taking forever to get my shit from them. Fucking 30 -40 days to manufacture. Got a feeling they can't get enough metal. Then they sit on the shit for a week while getting a full load for ship. 10 days on the water before it hits the west coast. By then they have already been sitting on your money for 50 days. Chinese don't do shit until you pay up front.
Whole fucking country is off this week. They get more fucking vacation than US workers. Who the fuck lets a whole country take vacation at once. I got a business to run, Fucking banks want thier money.
No matter, they are losing their competitive advantage. US manfacturing can out produce them 6 to 1 and ever so slowly are getting to within 10 % - 15% of chinese prices and you don't need to tie up 1000's of bucks at a time. Been dealing with them a long time. iT'S NOT LIKE IT USE TO BE.
Maybe Obami puts the final nail in the coffin ad tariffs them 15% across the board. Talk about revolutrion. Who knows...
Crazy times.
"The CEO of American icon Coca-Cola, Muhtar Kent, let his country have it in an FT interview, saying China's now a better place to do business than the US."
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/coke-ceo-china-better-place-to-do-business-2011-9#ixzz1ZmNJWZRIIf not china, then someother country will produce the product but i think for sure no matter what... jobs are not going to come back to US. How many countries will US use trariff against? Why would those countries use dollar for trading? If they dont use america will be in sudden depression. This is funny most US citizens can only think one dimensional. There are many interlinks in this game of chess and finally no matter what you do, except for removing dollars reserve status (which will push america into abysmal but its the best thing that can happen to america) nothing else can save america in long run. But as everyone knows generally people (who are able to do their daily chores) like to take less quantities of pain for long than take great pain in short run and recover completly. Everyone getting their food and bread want status quo.
So...
Just because the G7 FUcktards,( USA the king pin) manipulates thier currency at will,the USA(KING PIN)thinks they can ORDER other countries to do what they say/want.
I am surprised their is not a USA Military base in China.
I was under the impression the USDollar was Overvalued.
As retaliation they could rename Apple iPhone 5 to Foxconn iPhone 5, Dell Latitude to Foxconn Latitude, etc.
we would not be surprised at all to find China Daily report that China has accidentally sold a few billions in US government bonds... just because.
Sell to whom?
Me.
Lemme charter a bank (I'll keep expenses down. Me as the one functional employee, and about 100 others to fill in useless gubamint reports) borrow for rats ass all at the discount window, buy back the treasuries, carry them a face value, pledge said treasuries to the Fed at the Discount Window for cash, buy some more treasuries from China, pledge them as collateral at the discount wndow.... get my drift?
Lotta positive carry.
(Ad yes, who gives a fuck if the yield curve inverts by short rates being raised, because just a few quarters of this shit and I'll be rich and retire with a humongoloid pansion proper for a man of my newly minted wealth and arrogance.)
Hell, I'll even go the the Big House to have Din-Din with HisHonordaMan and Reverend Right, et al.
And I'll go on CNBS to expalin to everybody that God Sent Me To Straighten This Shit Up.
Speak at TED and be asshole buds with the Bills and Warren.
Fuck it, even start attending the Boulderbugs
So what if they sell? Give them some newly printed Bernanks and send them on their way. The chinese are soooooo fuxored.
This makes perfect sense on facts and principle.
Of course, in our ridiculous co-dependent world, this is M.A.D.
They should have done this 15+ years ago. And fuck WTO and NAFTA. Big fucking scams to reward the top 0.1% at the expense of the bottom 95%.
And yes, this may be one of the accelerators toward the coming WWIII.
Fuck China.
Let's get this started.
dont freak out the slants are fully westernized
Maybe, just maybe that GS prediction of the EUR/USD will come true when the Chinese start dumping some of their US$ reserves...
The U.S. Government Whore of the Great Wal Mart of China raised the debt cieling ...and the Red Dragon continues to order the killing of children in the womb. The Red Dragon's Monkey declares it legal and offers up the Whore's Labor into the Red Dragons jaws. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UewRdatzV3A&feature=related
It does not matter what these two governments do, they are both corrupt and evil. Evil bastards do not last, they abort labor and die. We are witnessing ''Conduct of the Unbecoming''. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf6EvzdgFSw&feature=related
Do the nations need to prove they have rejected the mercy of our Father in Christ? All nations are aware of the mercy of Christ now, so there is no point to continue on laboring if there is no yield left to harvest from among the nations. The last lost person is surely sealed among these nations now. The Feast of Trumpets just declared the Supermoon under Virgo's feet, Venus and Saturn in her womb, the Sun upon her shoulder, as Comet Elenin fell through her hair. Israel and the nations just need the Antichrist to seal the peace, right about now, to confirm the last years. Can't see that happening without some kind of massive slaughter http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iXT4vZYzkHdzPGSzLEOk0viCQkUQ?docId=CNG.211f4e001608b37db54efe2a0eef44b5.341 that calls for such an agreement, which would fall in line with the market crisis that establishes the full new world order call of the new age 2012 elite occult global goal. It feels like calm before an even bigger shitstrom, that is for sure, unless you are; in a war zone, civil uprising, riot, earthquake, flood, drought etc... or still providing labor for the beast.
By all means pass that fucking bill, set up those tariffs, China dumps Ts in retaliation, floods T market, US government can't sell any more debt, nobody wants it, not even the Fed, US government implodes, dollar collapses, America is his-to-ry.
The borrower is the servant of the lender. It applies in your individual case all the way up to nations. America is the largest damn debtor on the planet, with 50% of US government budget coming from borrowing. If China and other nations stop buying it, Fed buys it with printed money and slowly (or rapidly) destroys the currency. It's why Bernokio said no QE3. US dollar is on the verge of collapse. He knows it. Everybody up there knows it. But stupid American sheeple don't, like many here on ZH.
With more national debt than ANYONE on the planet, the BIGGEST trade deficit of ANYONE on the planet, 50% of the government budget hanging by a thread that could break any time, America is in NO position to be dictating terms to ANYONE, and is in NO position to be erecting tariffs against ANYONE.
Because of OUR OWN GOVERNMENT'S wild out of control spending America is completely exposed and vulnerable to funding retaliation that could kill the American government virtually overnight ...and kill the US dollar shortly thereafter.
So yea, go ahead and "PASS THIS LEGISLATION" to quote Dumbo. Start that trade war. Watch the T market collapse in front of your eyes then watch the dollar collapse in front of your eyes. Enjoy the ride. Watch history being made. The end of America.
It's not a bad plan. Do everything you can do to piss off the Chinese....or anyone else so it takes the Government off the hook for totally mismanaging the US economy. They can say "it's not our fault you dont have a job." This legislation is just trying to find a scapegoat other than the ones responsible.
duplicate post
Cranky sounds like a Chinese plant.
What is China going to "dump" the T bonds for? Dollar notes? Ben will be happy to print as many as they want.
Despite claiming to be old, Cranky has apparently never heard the adage "Owe the bank a thousand dollars and the loan is your problem. Owe the bank ten million dollars and the loan is the bank's problem." And that's when the bank can call on the sheriff to back them up. Big problem when the sheriff owes the money.
Smoot-Hawley stuffed the US because at the time the US was a large NET exporter and other countries followed its protectionism. Now the boot is on the other foot. It is China, not the US, that is a large NET exporter. Follow China's lead on protectionism and it will be China, not the US, that is damaged.
" . . we would not be surprised at all to find China Daily report that China has accidentally sold a few billions in US government bonds."
um, you do realize that china must buy all those US government bonds as part of the process of keeping their currency undervalued? and by selling them, they would tend to raise the value of their currency . . . exactly what they don't want to do.
I am a lurker 99.99999999% of the time but I have to ask a serious question:
At what point do you call it a lost cause and just leave the USA?
Long past that point. Unless you go to some place like tibet, or something, don't expect any type of escape from what's coming.
Once America collapses completely, the world will be a much different place. Just like with the soviet union, all those neat-o war toys will be up for grabs. Pax Americana, whether you want to believe it or not, is an actuality.
So--the rest of the world will go from having the life sucked out of them via corporations, to having the life bombed out of them. Which is worse? The former is no better than the latter.
But atleast with the latter, you die sooner.
End Child labor - dont buy apple products
balance the budget - GE and Apple to pay some tax
save America - eliminate the lobby industry
feel good about yourself - believe in more shit
"... on products from countries found to be subsidizing their exports by undervaluing their currencies."
Hypocrisy attains a new plateau.
All political theatre.
At some point in the process Wall Street will veto this bill.
@"..devaluing currency"?
where have i seen that before?
hmmm?
it appears no one in the government has
any idea what fiat money is. fantastic!
impeach everyone!
The basis, as anyone who can read Rothbard says that it is irrefutable that if two people, say 1 chinese and 1 american, trade voluntarily, they both expect to be happier after doing so, otherwise they would not trade. Now a third person is going to stand in between them with a uniform and a gun and he will say that he will use violence against them if they do not give a percentage of the deal to him.
Some people think that this third person is trying to fix the economy, they also think that he has the best interest at hearth of the other one. He is broke and it is a thief and a murderer, that's all there is to it.
George Reisman once said:If containers with things people wanted washed on your shore for free, you have to be really crazy to think that this would hurt your economy.
...call me crazy, oops, just stimulated demand destruction. Kids got a new toy, daddy did not earn, and now the family is unemployed ...but they live in a nice container, that says ''Great Wal Mart of China'', on the beach. Lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcdtTlw3Npg&feature=related
Each country according to their food:
American
Greecy, hamburgers, greecy, hot dogs, greecy, fried chicken, greecy
Unhealthy but at least your full of it for awhile
Chinese
Rice, kung pow, rice, orange chicken, rice, noodles, more rice
Tasty but fullness gone so quick ... just like their kingdom.
French
crazy, snails???, crazy, crepes????, crazy, frogs?????????, crazy
Crazy fun till it goes up in shaabang.
Greece
Olives, lamb, olives, feta, olives, gyros, olives
Unique explosive great in some contexts .... disaster in the wrong ones.
And the loser will be... AMERICA!
For me all signs the US is shedding are clearly pointing to more war.
Number One target is of course China because they are the only real challenge for the US super power status.
We are in a very dangerous time zone now. Time is running out for the US. The "usual" methods havent solved the China problem. Usual methods are for example the number one tool: To shut of the opponent from the supply of raw materials and energy. The US failed to beat Russia in Georgia and around the black Sea and the Central Asian countries. The result of this failed war policy is now clear to see. This "hidden war on Russia and China" included even a direct military attack on Russias vital interests in the Black Sea area on the same day Mr. Putin was sitting next to Mr. Bush participating in the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games. This was the war in Georgia started by the puppet goverment overthere .
This was the" Stalingrad" for the US in my opinion. Not in size and horror but it was the deciding battle. From then on the US had to accept, that it is not capable to go in between Rusia and China to make it possible to block the flow of trade between these two countries. As a matter of fact raw materials and energy supply from Russia and the central Asian countries to China is incresing steadily since then and the US is not capable to stop it.
The actual big battle is Afghanistan. China needs the resources from Afghanistan to build up its economy which is still way under developed. But the US and the UK do not want this to happen. They want control of this giant pot of "gold". But its not only gold, its everything one needs. Gas, copper, you name it. you can find it in Afghanistan and Southern Pakistan region. Once the US woud withdraw, then China simply would develop the countries infrastructure and Afghanistan would be in no time a second Saudi Arabia. (small population means high income due its abundant natural resources)
So this is the second much bigger battle the US can not afford to loose. But it does not look good for the US overthere as we all know. Now they are turning even to India to get assistance for the battle in Afghanistan. But my opinion is, that the Indian will give a shit for the US. The Indians are not stupid and they realize of course that the US is just looking for another idiot which can be kicked in the ass once he is not needed anymore. As matter of fact today no goverment in the world is trusting the US goverment whatever the matter.
So what to do. Time is running out. Resources at home are stressed to the max. Money printing to finance the wars is rampant. The currency (which is the backbone of the economy) is seriosly endangered from many sides.
So what to do. Wheter to step back and come to the conclusion that its time for the US to accept its defeat. Or to go forward again, become more agressive, make higher and higher bets hoping to win all back. The militrary will never be beaten that is the US trump card, the last pride.
I think option II is what we are seeing now. The world is in danger.
...max, are you forgetting the burdensome stone? http://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2011/10/03/israels-window-to-bomb-iran/
Of course Israel is the Wild Card. According to what I read Israel is the number III atomic power. They have more bombs and war heads then the UK or France.
Israel is something I do not want to comment at all. Simply because its not rational to me. Once religion is playing a factor in politics then a halfway normal mind is simply overstreched.
Its impossible to forecast the reactions of a person or a nation obsessed by religion or an ideology. But the real danger starts as one communist leader once said: " in that moment when you start to believe your own propaganda". Maybe the Israel leaders do really believe that Israelis are gods pet people above all the rest. That would be the worst case I can imagine. But unfortunately it looks exactly like this.
name one county that israel has threatened to wipe off the map. then name one country that the arabs have all threatened to wipe off the map.
why your myopia against israel? I could not care less if they think they are better than anyone else as long as they dont tell me to become jewish or die like the muslims do with their religion.
Americans think they are better than others, muslims think they are better than others, why not criticize them?
"wipe off the map" is not what was said, in fact that is an intentional deception via language translation. More shenanigans from the NY Times having a zionist translate a speech. I believe the correct translation is Israeli regime should be consigned to the dustbin of history. Regime Change not wipe off the map. Look into that.
i looked into it and you know what i found, they said it was good that israel was created so it would be easier to kill all the jews rather than having to hunt them down behind every tree. this from their spiritual leaders
I hope I'm not myoptic against Israel. As a matter of fact I have a lot of sympathy for the Jewish people which were in Europe in the 1930 and 1940 the victims of the most cruel crimes one can imagine. These crimes have ugly consequences till now in various fields.
But what I hate is racism which is for me a synonym for extreme stupidity. Because it was only racism what made these crimes possible. And the sad truth is in my opinion, that Israel is now also a society where racism is an integral part of goverment policy. There will be no good from this.
I will stop here and not continue with my thoughts because there is nothing to discuss when it comes to Israel for the simple fact, that it is impossible to discuss with firm believers. And there are many firm believers in Israel. No matter what facts you present them it is not possible to shake their believe because this is the foundation of their personalities and their whole lifes. All the intelligence and all the knowledge and experience one gathered through his life does not protect a firm believer from being simply stupid. A firm believer wants to stay stupid about history and wants only to believe what fits in his myoptic view.
However, one sad fact I want to mention to show, that nothing can shake firm believers. The rules of purity of Judaism approx. 2.800 years ago (more or less, I do not recall exactly)) were written down as a law at that time. In short words all neighbours folks of Israel at that time were regarded as unpure and therefore not fit to be choosen for marriage. With one exception only, The Egyptians they were not regarded as minor and unfit. The wording in this law was quite harsh and direct. A few hundred years later this first written racist law was a bit softened in order to adopt to reality. I do not know what is the practice nowadays but it appears to me not much has changed as far as the religiois laws for marriage are concerned.
The sad truth is one can find quite many parallels between the oldest versions of this Jewish law and with the "Rassengesetzgebung" (Racial Laws) written by the Nazis 2.800 years later.
Isn't that sad ?
the nazi race laws were copied almost word for word from the state of california's (usa) eugenics laws, not from the jews hitler was allied with the muslims, the mufti of jeruselum drafted the plan for auschwitz and helped organize nazi muslim ss units in the balkans. hitler was a great admirer of islam and he said he regretted that europeans were christian. it seems his wishes are being fulfilled today as jews leave europe once again to escape racism only to be accused of being racists for wanting to be left alone. and why dont you blame koreans, or japanese or mexicans for being race based cultures? again, its only the jews that get criticsm from folks like you. now why is that? what is sad is that these facts are so carefully ignored and suppressed by those who point out flaws in israel.
anyway, dont beso sad when there is lithium
I do not know the eugenic laws from California. And most probably you are right that the Nazi did not get this from this ancient jewish law. But this ancient Jewish law was in its principal meanings very much comparable with the "Rassengesetze".
What I know about Hitler regarding religions is that he hated them all. He and Goebels called it the"Jewish-Christian" cancer that has befallen Europe and the Germans. The Muslim religion was in similar rank for them since "it came out of the same hole", as they said. Nazism itself was the propagated religion. The school children were brainwashed to become firm Nazi believers. Competive "beliefs" (religions) were banned from school and kindergarden.
Mexicans are a mix of Spaniards and native American (Indios). The Spaniards are the typical mediterrean mix race plus a strong germanic influence through the vandals (Andalucia) and goths. So how can they be racists.
Koreans and Japanese are homogenous on first sight and for sure not so open to outsiders. This is a leftover from the past but nowadays a Japanese, Korean or European teenager have much in common and inter cultural mariiages are increasing strongly everywhere. The people have learned that all man are equal at least genetically. The difference is only cultural.
There is nothing wrong when somebody or a group wants to stay separated. Only one rule has to be observed: Dont do on others what you do not like is done to yourself.
At least in Germany the number of Jews is steadily growing. Seems they like it there again.
p.s. Lithium is not bad. But a clear mind is much better.
Each day this looks more and more like 1931, but with gaudy bling and 'smart'phones.
The only way to truely compete would be if the US Congress/Senate abolished the US minimum wage. Then we would see true competition...including the transportation costs, it might be interesting to see who wins at the Walmart or Target.
No surprises here. When in doubt, consult the book on "Do as we say, not as we do".
Currency manipulation? Mercantilist? Pot meet kettle. How about, unfettered printing flooding the world with dollars, pricing 3rd world countries out of staple foods, buying assets in private US corporations (POMO), buying your own debt, bailing out private banks, creating wars to control natural resources, buying/selling toxic MBS, etc.
This is Corporatism: The marriage between the corporations and the state, and we're all good little Nazis now. Welcome to the Two Minutes Hate.
The UK is one of the largest creditors to the US. I think we should dump all the US bonds while we still can.
anyone hear of Hawley-Smoot ??
What if instead of trade sanctions we just do a reverse-peg at whatever exchange rate we desire? I assume that woud create some sort of arbitrage chaos, but would it spark a trade war?
And yet, what is emerging is that banks (especially the central banks) are becoming significantly more overt in their manipulation of national policies and actions. So this might be theater from Schumer. On the other hand, if it isn't then open hostility between the U.S. and China (which historically leads to military confrontation) is also looming.
One might be justified in anticipating that some new and deadly form of QE might be in the offing. I am not convinced of the Fed's ability to do anything without some other very drastic major change in the monetary/fiscal landscape. We cannot see the full agenda yet because trade and currency wars by themselves are certain recipes for war. And what I am seeing emerge is bankers just usurping and spitting on governmental powers and privileges as though they were atavistic remnants of the era of nation states. -- Michael C. Ruppert
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