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China Goes To TradeCon 2, Warns Currency Bill Will "Inevitably Lead To Serious Damage In China-US Trade Relations"

Tyler Durden's picture


Save this press release for the archives: it may well be the formal counter announcement of a trade war from China, which now realizes it has a batshit schizo trading partner, one who critically needs China to recycle its mercantilist dollars into buying America's one ply toilet Treasurys, yet one which is now blasting China for doing just that...

From the Chinese Ministry of Commerce

On October 11, the U.S. Senate passed the "2011 Oversight Reform Act of currency exchange rate," Shen Danyang, a spokesman for the Ministry of Commerce has issued a statement that the recovery in the global economy facing a severe test of the critical moment, the U.S. Senate to force through legislation to promote trade partner currencies, is tantamount to upgrading the wrong signal on protectionism. This is a serious violation of international rules, and not only threatens the stable development of Sino-US economic and trade relations, but also with other countries to jointly cope with challenges, runs counter to efforts to oppose trade protectionism, China is firmly opposed.

Shen Danyang stressed that China has always maintained need for the two sides to strengthen communication, and to take common positive measures to develop Sino-US economic and trade cooperation. Once the motion is formally made into law, it will inevitably lead to serious damage to China-US economic and trade relations. China hopes that the U.S. after a rational and objective treatment of the exchange rate, makes the right choice.

And now, the PBOC gets involved too:

October 11, the U.S. Senate passed the "2011 Reform Act of currency exchange rate surveillance", which, we firmly oppose.

In recent years, China to accelerate the reform of RMB exchange rate formation mechanism, and has achieved significant results, the RMB exchange rate is becoming more and more reasonable and balanced level, but also for the international economy has made important contributions to financial stability. It won't solve the U.S. economy and employment problems and will only seriously disturb Sino-U.S. economic and trade relations and will also disturb the efforts of the two countries and global community's joint efforts to promote the world economic recovery and growth.


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Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:28 | 1763846 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

Let me guess market will go up 5% tomorrow!

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:37 | 1763902 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

King Dawrrah.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:37 | 1764154 trampstamp
trampstamp's picture

Fuck'm... lets go bitchez!

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:42 | 1764178 metastar
metastar's picture

F-China. Those damn currency manipulators.

BTW, F the FED/Gov't. Those damn currency manipulators!

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:25 | 1764289 strannick
strannick's picture

No sense looking for fairplay in this bite-and-scratch duke-out, its just Real-Economic. China will bitch and cry about how unfair it all is, and make up bullshit about 'dialogue' while all the while angling for the best play it can make, with the hand it's dealt. Its the way the world works. Anyone talking about poor mistreated China, is on glue, or has been eating Chinese babyfood.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:16 | 1764432 Nobody special
Nobody special's picture

How is choosing one's price currency manipulation?  If a company in the US sells for low profit, it's called a loss leader.  They can win out, and often do.  Meanwhile a nation following this strategy is a currency manipulator?  Few years ago, China couldn't get prices low enough and the US just egged them on to become more competitive.  There were ways to cut more costs.  Damn the environment, forget sustainability.  Poisoning your lakes and rivers?  Suicides common in your work force?  Child labour?  No problem.  We're a US company... we don't live over there.  Those are your problems and we're okay with that.  Now we look back and say 'shit, that was a bonehead move.'  Yes, it was.  We let our corporate 'leaders' and our government drive this change and ensure competitiveness at any cost and now we can't compete.  The outcome was obvious.  But isn't it interesting that we were happy exploiting the Chinese for cheap products and labour while the economy was strong?

China is no currency manipulator.  We intentionally forced them to cut all costs and price us out of the market.  Now we're reaping the fruits of our labour.  I'm not saying it doesn't suck, but every 'great deal' we chose to buy from China was our way of condoning this.  We even knew of their pollution and ethical issues, and still we bought.  I don't forgive our corporate leaders or politicians, but I also recognize that everyone that bought these 'great deals' had a hand in this collapse, myself included.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:34 | 1764479 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Excellent points Nobody S. Back in the late 90's, I was in senior management at a Fortune 50 company. And for th elife of me, I could not understand why there was a such a huge China focus for the Board/CEO.

Millions of dollars a year of visits, scholarships for Chinese students, awards, scouring for "barely making the cut" sub-contractors. Technology transfer agreements... on and on.

And all this in the face of an openly hostile environment to work in. Language issues, government meddling issues, bribes (of course they were not called as such)....

China was set-up on purpose. As was India with the Software outsourcing play. 

Now we get to see the downside of that whole game.

And regardless of how it plays out, we are ALL the poorer for it.


The Perversion of Language

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 03:41 | 1764671 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

This bill has zero chance of passing and while "the show" is being put on for the gullible general public, behind closed doors Obama and the whole diplomatic fleet are reassuring China that that nothing will change, and nothing will - and China knows this.

US politicians had to show Joe Schmoe that at least they're trying to do something and China had to save face and retaliate.

But it's only words, a show.  

Both sides know they need each other - China has to sell its shit (products) to US and US to sell its shit (Treasuries) to China.

The consequences of this relationship falling apart are too dire and both sides know it, even if publicly they don't seem to.  

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 04:27 | 1764771 FatFingered
FatFingered's picture

Smithy, you bring up an interesting point. 

"US politicians had to show Joe Schmoe that at least they're trying to do something and China had to save face and retaliate."

Is this really the purpose of this bill?  To show Joe Schoe it is trying to actually help them to bring back some manufacturing jobs?  For one, we all know Joe Smoe will never ever read the bill, or understand that it could possibly help exports.  For two, the bill will probably only make Chinese shit more expensive.  And three, we all know that every single legislation our Prostiticians write is complete obvious war on the American people. Four, the Fed is the biggest currency manipulator in the history of the World.  And lastly, we know Geithner(read: bankers) want this thing real bad. Bankers could not give a shit about American jobs.

So, what possible nightmare implications could this idiotic bill have???  What's it for?  War?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 05:21 | 1764796 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

You're absolutely right, Mr. Schmoe will never read the bill nor will he know all of its effect on him.  

The only thing that's been stuffed down Mr. Schmoe's throat by the media is that China is a currency "manipulator" and Mr. Schmoe knows that "manipulator" is a bad word.  

He also knows that bad people, especially of the non-American persuasion, must be punished.  

In comes Congress with the show.  

Nothing changes but our buddy Joe blames our politicians less and those terrible Chinese more for his woes.  

Our politicians sleep better knowing their stay in office has been prolonged for a bit longer.  

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:44 | 1764584 Reven
Reven's picture

Your point regarding looking the other way while child labor and slave practices went on behind the scenes to fuel our consumerism is well taken, however comparing a loss leader to a soverign nation is not a fair comparison.  Pegging your currency to another nation's currency is inherently corrosive to a free market.  It is something banana republics do to maintain stability.  Every other nation in the G20 accepts that it's in the best interests of their nation and the global economy to allow for a floating, free trading currency.  China is not doing itself any favors in the long run with such mass scale manipulation that the Fed can only dream of.  The cracks in the Chinese miracle are already showing.  How long before the Chinese workers, who have been treated so poorly by Chinese policy makers, come knocking on the Communist party's door?  Actions speak volumes, and this is clearly their greatest fear.  They can ill afford an escalating trade war.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:03 | 1764608 theabyss11
theabyss11's picture

Great point. We're only reaping what we have sown.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 03:21 | 1764712 porrannor
porrannor's picture

Exactly... This is not about China... this is about us, the USA... it is stupid to blame China for China does what's good for China ... but, it is also naive to expect honesty from the politicians for they are poppets of the business... and business will go where the cheap labor is for it does not care of the Nation.... We the Nation is to blame... We've been going to Wall-Mar as if there was no tomorrow... we have been electing the same crap year after year... we got what we asked for..... and it is up to us to change it... 

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:10 | 1764612 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Everyone loses with de-industrialization of the free market and feudal re-consolidation of those spoils except the Globalist architects engineering that transfer of wealth.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:10 | 1764615 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture


"In China . . . the distinction between slavery and freedom is necessarily not great, since all are equal before the emperor - that is, all alike are degraded. As no honour exists, and no one has an individual right in respect of others, the consciousness of debasement predominates, and this easily passes into that of utter abandonment. With this abandonment is connected the great immorality of the Chinese. They are notorious for deceiving wherever they can. Friend deceives friend, and no one resents the attempt at deception on the part of another, if the deceit has not succeeded in its object, or comes to the knowledge of the person sought to be defrauded. Their frauds are most astutely and craftily performed, so that Europeans have to be painfully cautious in dealing with them."

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 04:30 | 1764774 acttang
acttang's picture

Funny... You are saying US citizens are much better off because the "freedom" we enjoy? Then how come we complain everyday that our politicians are selling us out? Regarding greed and immorality, how come we are having Occupy Just About Everywhere movement, if our society's morality is so high? And over all, how come we are in such a shit hole and they are booming, at the level of whole society? Europeans? Maybe you don't know that 80% of LV's sales volumn derives from China sales, that BMW and Mercedes are selling like hot cakes, that the Swiss can't supply enough watches? What do we, as Americans, have to offer that they need to buy? Things they make better and cheaper? We are supposed to be a nation that promotes self excellence instead of relying other's inferiority. But if what you said is true, that China is a corrupted and bankrupt nation, we should be able to beat them hands down. No? 

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 12:12 | 1766088 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

China bad =\= USA good

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:22 | 1764303 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

It really amazes me how the vast majority of Congressmen/women have absolutely no understanding of economics.  I used to buy into the whole world TPTB conspiracy but now I really think it's just retardation that is the main enemy.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:58 | 1764392 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Maybe the tbtp depend upon and create the retardation to maintain control.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:35 | 1764483 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Have you ever seen what a puppet looks like without a puppet master pulling it's strings?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:43 | 1764577 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


However, if you want to go the "evil genius" route...they KNOW the bill won't pass...and it's all just another piece of PolySci theatre

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:43 | 1764492 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

It's still possible that it's not intentional.  Now, I'm not claiming that this is how it works, but some years ago when I was looking into the mechanics of advertising, I was struck by a persistant thought.  To wit, it was that "New and Improved" was possibly the most dangerous phrase in the English language.

If you think about it, the US has been built on the general principle that things must always get better, and results must be produced.  When this hook was made explicit as one of the major techniques of popular advertsing, it only re-enforced the existing pattern in peoples' minds.  While advertisers were using the concept to sell soap and cars, they were watering a dangerous seed in the minds of viewers.

So what happens when a person is writing a doctoral thesis in a field like economics?  They can't hardly refine something that is already there- the big money and future tenure rests on creating a new paradigm, even if the existing model works fine.  

The same question applies when looking at education- we've been having a problem with my oldest daughter lately, and her ability to keep up with the class in mathematics.  The thing is, she's not alone- everyone else I know has children with the same problem.  The issue is that they're no longer focusing on basic arithmatic in elementry school- what they're doing is treating fundimentals as afterthoughts, and rushing through basics to expose children to algebraic concepts as early as possible.  I understand the theory- studies have shown that children find it much easier to learn a foreign language later in life if they are exposed it early.  

The problem is that they're skipping fundimentals to do this, and it's resulting in a whole generation of students who don't have a firm grasp of things like basic multiplication.  Somewhere, somebody wrote a paper about this as a doctoral thesis, and it filtered down into the system- and since the Federal government is essentially using funding as a cudgel to set school curricula, this pet theory someone came up with as a "new and improved" method of teaching math got jammed down everyones' throats.

Who knows how often this has happened, where a single idea was packaged and sold as a "new and improved" version, and then failed to deliver- when it lands in the field of education, it is memorized and accepted from then on by the students as a foundational axiom that is unlikely to be challenged, and is then used later to develop a theory that is even more flawed, and undergoes the same treatment, becoming an unchallenged assertion in the the public mind.

Looking at some of the astounding idiocy I see every day, it seems plausible enough.  The fact that things are falling off the rails, and so few people seem to even have a guess as to why it is happening is actually a good argument for incremental corruption over generations, rather than some kind of overarching plan to sieze control.  Sure, there are always those who lust after power, and will use any tool they can lay hands on to gain it- but a good deal of what is happening seems to be just a line of boneheaded moves by people who seem incapable of rational thought.

Could be a sign that a lot of someones tried to "improve" their own corner of reality, and the collective errors have added up over time.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:47 | 1764510 Waffen
Waffen's picture

that can certainly be a part of it.


however with the findings of the Reece Committee in 1954 that non taxable endowments like the Ford Foundation were intentionally trying to destroy individualism and create socialism in America by subverting the schools.. Well someone somewhere at sometime, had real intetions in changing America in such a way that it could be manipulated and controlled, do those kind of people still exist?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:17 | 1764551 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I have an engineering degree. I was better than most, but not a rock star, in math. I worked and cranked out the answers in A/B grade scales.

I know now more about math than I did back then. And I couldn't do a damn proof now to save my life.

My experience, and my desire to re-school, is that math back when I was in school was about process not about understanding. I see things today that sync with various lessons, such as a tire stem on a truck as it rolls past me. I read thing about statistics, peak oil, and so many other subjects and feel below-par on the topic. I see math around me all the time now, like a loud din, but I lack the ability to translate what I was taught into what I see. It is like learning to speak a language, forgetting, and then wondering what the conversation is going on around you.

I don't have an answer on this gap, but if you find one, I would drop 1k cash on the experience if its a DVD series. Personally, I see a total college math redo as the solution; ground up. I have to start over and fill all the gaps bottom up to satisfy what I want to be able to know. Currently that is actually my plan, albeit a many multi-year plan after I pay off my divorce working shit party time gigs...

DISCLOSURE: I am professional comp-sci, so while I do logical thinking all day long I don't do math for a living. But I always loved it, especially geometry.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:31 | 1764625 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

My background is in linguistics and I didn't start getting interested in math until grad school when studying formal semantics (logic, boolean algebra, etc.). I work in tech but mostly self-taught. The few courses I've taken in programming languages have been kind of disappointing - teach the basic language but the application is always business-oriented rather than tackling more interesting problems.

There are a lot of online resources available. You might want to start with MITOpenCourseware. I've found some interesting things there. For stats just do a search, there is a lot of material out there. I am in the process of putting together a blog that will draw together some of these resources as well as programming resources for people like that work in tech without a CS degree (people like me)  but it is not quite ready for primetime ;) However, you might like the following for a stats intro:

I could never learn or re-learn math from a video - I need book, paper, pencil but I know people have different learning styles.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 01:14 | 1768512 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Comp-sci is like a blend of music and engineering. The folks that are good at it have something internal and not trainable. A musician can benefit from training, but training doesn't make a musician. Comp-sci is very much like that; how things are put together can be "quantified" but "right" is subjective. Physics can be more black and white in this regard.

I want to lay a foundation to retrain, potentially, for another line of work. I got a lot of years in this one, I am capped in pay (unless I start my own business), and I am really more intereted in doing something interesting with my last 20 years. Life is a bit routine, if not for the chaos of our times.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:22 | 1764635 nscholten
nscholten's picture

I feel the same except didn't complete a degree but did go through the 1 year of calculus but as i was in construction it did allow me to view things differently.  Was looking at a dvd series from "The Great Courses", Change and Motion:  Calculus Made Clear.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 01:08 | 1768504 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Thanks, I will check it out.

I kind of hold the notion of going back to school dear beacuse I will need to if I decide on a second career. I have this crazy notion of teaching in the bush once I get my finances in order(and know I won't starve in old age, LOL).

Again, late to the thread, but this bit of history/life is inspirational:

“The only places in Alaska I haven’t been to are Anaktuvuk Pass, and Kake,” Muñoz said. Can you believe it? I have never been right over to Kake.”

That is BALLS right there, a sense of ADVENTURE, and a thirst for LIFE. Bust out a map of Alaska and play Eagle scout. This is the 'coot at 90, except I will be a guy and my art is logical systems that solve problems and make things work better. I will probably flop at teaching, but it won't stop me from trying.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:43 | 1764495 Waffen
Waffen's picture

the congressmen and women are just rubber stamps, they dont make real decisions, they do what they are told 90% of the time

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:48 | 1764513 RobertMugabe
RobertMugabe's picture

CharlieSTD, I couldn't agree more. Can't even watch Alex Jones anymore. I applaud his work at bringing the Federal Reserve into the spotlight, but this guy refuses to see that the great majority of politicians, lobbyists, and investment bankers for that matter, aren't evil, they're just incompetent greedy morons.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:24 | 1764556 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Late to the party ... time zones and all that RM ...



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 03:37 | 1764729 porrannor
porrannor's picture

Robert, they are evil for they know 'right from wrong'... we cannot and should not dismiss it for they are greedy and stupid... they must be kept responsible for the distruction of the Nation....

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 07:32 | 1764903 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

I DO believe that they are evil, and have nefarious and grandiose plans, as I have done extensive reading on the topic of global goverenment. 

But I do agree with you that Alex is missing something in his message.  END THE FED is only one part of the equation!!!  Central banks need CUSTOMERS.....the POLITICIANS are their customers who borrow a gazillion fiat to fund their collectivist utopia wet dream programs.  MY message is complete:


There...I already feel better!

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:49 | 1764589 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

The whole thing is yettanother ZOG grandstand play. Senate rodents passed the bill...because they know the House rodents won't. Obama proposed his fake "jobs" bill...because he knew the it wouldn't pass at all. This "2"-party death dance over the corpse of America just goes on and on and is of such Clusterfucks that dictatorships are finally made..

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 03:19 | 1764710 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Caligula nominated his horse to the once proud and powerful Roman Senate.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 09:41 | 1765266 swissbene
swissbene's picture

Incitatus! He was to be appointed consul I believe. Reportedly gold was a consistent component of his diet (disproving a common misconception)

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:00 | 1764397 Nobody special
Nobody special's picture

Exactly.  China exploited the US for a rapid rise.  The US raped China for cheap products.  Both sides are bastards trying to cheat the other.  Unfortunately for the US, China now has the manufacturing base.  Simple fact is that as a producer on their scale, they stand to recover far faster than the US.

I don't think either side is right in this, but if I were in China's shoes, I'd drop the US flat.  No trade.  Both sides would collapse, but China has the advantage of a command economy and production facilities.  It can fabricate demand for a spell, growing their country through mandated improvements to their population's living conditions.  I'm not suggesting this is an ethical thing to do to the US, but it would be a strategic one.  The US wants China's currency out of the picture?  China could certainly deliver.

Personal opinion - Any US citizen that feels they have a 'right' to the assets of another is deserving of a swift kick with a frozen boot.  Middle East oil belongs to the Middle East.  China's productivity belongs to China.  And so forth.  These groups have the right to price at their chosen levels, and the US has the right to accept it or not to.  I don't get this fight about what China can or can't do.  They can do whatever they damn well please, just as the US does.  It's up to the other party to accept or reject it.  Incidentally, let's not forget it was our corporations and governments that built China to what it is today.

I'm often shocked at the surprise and confusion surrounding this collapse.  The US has been consuming more than it produces for decades.  That's how one gets poor.  China's been consuming less than it produces.  That's how one gets wealthy.  Is there any question why the US is outa gas?  And now the US wants to strongarm China?  Get real.  The only power the US has is reserve status, and that fades fast.  You think the military will operate when the currency doesn't buy shit?  Guess again.  Best analogy I can think of for the US is a puffer fish.  It's all air and when it pops, there will be little left to see.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:38 | 1764487 Cynical Sidney
Cynical Sidney's picture

we didn't rape china for their cheap shit, their mercantile policies are to blame. china ripped off so much of our IP rights we don't owe them jack, they owe us. they can try to drop us flat but it's china who will be harmed the most; compared to the US, chinese economy relies much more on international trade. any number of country could build a strong manufacturing industry if china's not game we'll just have to prop up india. china's been pumping capital into pakistan and iran to marginalize the influence of US and india, time to give them a taste of their own shit.

and speaking of cheap chinese exports, tens of thousands of chinese hookers are pouring into the middle east. in some of the biggest cities across the region, many of the working girls are chinese; no doubt impressive though, keeping them muslim men off the edge

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:31 | 1764566 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

This is an old story. Read some history ... that is, if you want to skip to the end of the book and know what happens. The US was mercantilist in the 20s, no? Britain was mercantilist at one point, no? Others?

Humans are both noble and despicable creatures; look to your community around your and ask who you are. Be that, surround yourself with that, you want to be. Be that, surround yourself with that, you want your children to be.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:40 | 1764660 Cynical Sidney
Cynical Sidney's picture

stick to the topic pal. the US create value, the chinese centralize value, monopolize it to debase value. anything between toys, IT industry, cellphones to fighter jets, the chinese rips off all of our IPs. starting with their control of silk trade thousands years back, the chinese plays a sinister game. these days they treat the US as its R&D facility, every time we create something of value they carbon copy it bastardize it and mass produce it in the lowest quality to destroy our wealth.

the chinese have had used operating systems for the past 30 years, but they never paid for it, software technologies that had obviously helped them tremendously in terms of productivity. americans paid for everything, all the inventions, development of software, capitalization into software companies etc, americans ended up having to foot the bill for all of it. apple's innovations are all created in the US, then china comes in and reap the rewards. apple's supply chain alone hires over 5 million chinese workers, and more people on the distribution front, just as others get into the business of fake apple stores and iphone imitations. same story as the semi-conductor industry, born in the US, improved in Japan, streamlined in taiwan, before being debased and destroyed in china. they shall be held responsible for actions of flagrant infringement of our Intellectual Property rights.


Wed, 10/12/2011 - 04:12 | 1764761 Incubus
Incubus's picture

they shall be held responsible for actions of flagrant infringement of our Intellectual Property rights.


by whom? my, aren't we feisty today.  Remove China from our supply chain and most Americans would hemorrhage money so fast, they'd riot in a matter of days to weeks. Like it or not, the US and China are fucking each other.  Neither of us gets out of this without the shame of being ass-raped.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:07 | 1764611 roygbiv
roygbiv's picture

Yeah, what Sid said above (or below?)

China has ripped untold amounts of US intellectual property in the last 10+ years? 

And that stuff wasn't just laying underground like Oil.  That represents untold man (and chick) hours to develop, either by private companies or gubmnt funded grants.

I am not at all worried about whether the US is treating China fairly - we exploited their people, their people let us exploit them so they could steal all the knowledge we have spent decades and billions of dollars developing.

We're both sharks, and now there's blood in the water.  Nature red in tooth an claw n' shit.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:28 | 1764643 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

I guarantee that the US would bounce back faster.  So would the rest of the world as the manufacturing base would quickly diversify away from China.  Not all of the manufacturing would return to America, but we would trade with partners willing to play fair.

China's leach economy would spiral into deflation with their host market vaporized. The peasants would likely tear the country apart and the whole place would go back for another 500 years of darkness.  Oh next time they will reconsider their self described tactics i.e “hide you ambitions and disguise your claws” and decide to not be so predatory.

The US would see a strong bought of inflation on the shit we didn't need in the first place.  And slowly, some jobs would come back, and some of the corps that supported this whole mess will get burned.  And hopefully we all learn that there needs to be balance.  Produce and consume, not just f'ing borrow....

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 04:05 | 1764757 pufferfish
pufferfish's picture

Excuse me?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 05:57 | 1764813 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture



You forgot to mention that the US is the largest debtor nation in the history of the world. 40 years ago, we were the world's largest creditor nation. Whahappen? 

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:41 | 1764176 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

This shitstorm has been brewing for 10 years now, both sides new damn well what they were doing, China will take the loss on treasuries and their people are set up to benefit from the coming gold revaluation.....This slow running soap opera is getting ready for the final ending,,,,,better do the kids XMAS shopping the shelves are going to be empty shortly

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:08 | 1764415 eureka
eureka's picture

You see clearly - most US'ians think China needs US more than vice versa - they are wrong - China has EU, BRIC and increasingly Africa as clients, all increasingly trading in their own currencies and all together markets ten times bigger than US.


By, by US... the shelves are indeed going to be empty - because US'ians do not know how to make anything any more - and, when China dumps 3 TRILLION of US garbage paper - the USD will be worth 10-20 cents. 

Merry Christmas 2011, 2012, 1213....

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:37 | 1764576 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Except that the numbers of chinese and the oz of gold floating around don't revalue well. Unless we are talking REVALUE. And the all caps ain't in the cards. That can't happen without the system imploding.

Understand that China has shit for gold reserves compared to Europe (10k tons) and the US (8k tons). China is 1k maybe 2k tons. Given the US, European, and Chinese economies are (roughly) par right now, China gets raped on a gold revaluation; they won't be able to trade for shit. With the caveat that individuals may survive, but most of them will perish with the escalation of food prices and the collapse of trade.

It is all about trade people! Watch the barter. Better yet, figure out how to secure your own through as much bater as you family relations will allow; private and on a handshake/word. Be sure to keep it.

Prepare for war.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:56 | 1764599 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

The US has "8K tons of gold". In whose teeth? Not in Fort Knox. No audit since 1974. My experience with several companies is that long-term refusal of audit is a sure mark of something badly amiss. I think Mr. Greenspan and his Rothschild friends smuggled our gold off to Israel some time ago.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:58 | 1764603 Reven
Reven's picture

Indeed, and one might also follow logically, if the US were to collapse or hyperinflate, Europe would most surely be taken down with us in it's current fragile state.  China is currently holding their private parts very securely right now, praying that the US and Europe survive long enough for them to transition from a simple producer to a dynamic, self-sustaining economy with internal demand.  I think China will be disappointed.  They have attempted to rise too fast at the expense of the system that sustains their rise, now we will all fall together.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:21 | 1764632 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Let me translate: China is fucked seven ways to Sunday.

Gold will be money in the end (after it all collapses). China has no gold. US and Europe have all the gold.

I am a macro thinker, I read history and think big systems. I don't know how to trade this. I do know that China is fucked.

Thus my comments about war. I don't even want to postulate on that subject; this forum doesn't understand what seems to be inevitable.

Buy gold, live 15 years, collect. Otherwise, god bless and the best of luck.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 03:12 | 1764703 Cynical Sidney
Cynical Sidney's picture

stop talking out of your cornhole and get a grasp of the global commodities trade. china maybe screwed up but it's not for lack of gold. price of gold is tied to growth in china and south africa. china is the world's biggest producer of gold, it has plenty of gold and other rare metals, and will gladly give them away in exchange for oil and growth

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 04:19 | 1764765 Incubus
Incubus's picture

The Chinese obviously have a long term vision for the development of their country: this goes beyond quarterly earnings reports.  You think the Chinese are short on gold?  lol. 

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 10:09 | 1765459 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Obviously, if we go back to using gold as money, the US (supposing it still actually has all its purported gold reserves) will have a bit of a leg up over China's 1 - 2k tonnes (I suspect its real holdings are somewhat higher, as are those of the Oil producers)

However, consider this: up until Nixon closed the gold window, the US, despite being one of the world's largest creditor nations and being a mighty exporter, was still being drained of its gold reserves.

Basically - you need gold to buy things, not to sell things. And china now is the world's manufacturer. It has a lot of problems, but frankly, in terms of growth prospects I think it is better off than we are. We are living off our existing capital and our reserve/petrodollar status. If the Chinese have any sense they'll be ditching their US paper even faster than official statistics suggest and buying real assets with the proceeds. Because their USD holdings are heading for zero value, and if most of their assets are still paper when we finally go to gold, they'll have lost immeasurable wealth. I simply refuse to believe they don't understand this.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 01:30 | 1768540 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I would be happy to entertain other opinions on this point, but the drain of gold on the US up to the closing of the gold window was two fold; (1) the US over printed dollars for man-on-the-moon, Vietnam, etc and (2) the US priced gold too low creating arbitrage demand.

Most folks don't realize the later; there was a time where you could rotate dollars and gold and make money doing nothing. The price fix was too low and created unlimited demand for folks who (1) buy dollars, (2) exchange for gold at the counter, and then (3) sell gold at a profit. With the profit, the cycle could be repeated with a greater input.This was actually a big part of the problem.

A gold standard absolutely requires a proper pricing of gold; in fact that is (in my mind) the most important point to have right. The subject gets quite complex. Going back on the gold standard, at too low a price can be deflationary and at too high a price inflationary. But this opens the door to balance the books across the world, at great inflation.

On a more historical note, I am in the Ralph Foster "Fiat Paper Money" camp that demonstrates that fiat always dies, because by its nature it is unlimited and we are monkeys that love to party down. The reset always requires something real, that can't be "printed" (commodities would work).

Folks can poo poo the US gold holding all they want, but the US gold reserves are just as strategic (if not more so) than the nuclear arsenal. If you don't grasp that, you don't grasp the power of controlling the money supply. Generals do; too many wars have been lost for lack of money. Conclusion: the army won't give it up.

That is why I think it will happen (gold standard), but only after, as Churchill opined, all other options have been exhausted. It is the only way out of the woods.

Go Army!


Cooter <--- (former Army)

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 03:24 | 1764713 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

If tungsten is the new reserve currency we are a leader.


Paul McCulley of Pimco fame says China has made out like a bandit even if we default on the $3T.


Get used to some serious competition. The Chinese have been number one for millenia -- they just took a 300 year break.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:42 | 1763925 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

make it 7.5%!!

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:54 | 1763973 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

wtf.. that makes no sense.. if China can't have a low yuan, they will stop buying Treasuries to keep the yuan low.  And without Chinese bids on Treasuries, cost for government debt will go up, having a dampening effect on Operation Twist, and extending the deleveraging time horizon. 


yay. dysfunctional US government, you are f*cking your own ppl over.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:02 | 1764014 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Uh.... cue Ben Bernak! We don't need the chinese to buy our debt, we can buy it ourselves. It's like keeping from starving to death by shitting in your mouth..... The chinese are salty because we're treating our IOU's like a cat behind a chinese resturaunt.


Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:18 | 1764073 john39
john39's picture

almost as if the gov/banks want everything to go to hell. hmmm....

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:43 | 1764494 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Chinese, "What is this, where is all the money?"

US, "That's as good as money, those are IOU's"

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 03:26 | 1764715 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Don't worry, there's way too much for them to buy. The Fed will buy it. Chinese are buying shorter maturities. Hmm. Wonder if that ties in to Op Twist?

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:08 | 1764033 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Il Cavaliere was wrong. It's not only traders on cocaine. The whole US political class too.

"I snorted, but I did not inhale."

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:29 | 1764323 Market Efficien...
Market Efficiency Romantic's picture

haha, but the sure are on all kinds of psaycho-active stuff, too. Couldn't explain their socially abnormal behavior otherwise.

Besides, Bunga Bunga Don sure knows the effects of coke, he is probably an expert on how to combine them with Pfizer chemistry without dangerous heart conditions.

Just ridiculous, and I am wondering with every day, how even granted the media monopoly the Italian public can let this guy embarass them in the world.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:32 | 1764134 philipat
philipat's picture

Agreed but remember that the RMB is not a convertible currency so they can manipulate its value to whatever they want. It's easier for Congress to blame China for the lack of jobs rather than Globalisation and US Corporations because the latter wholly own Congress.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:56 | 1764234 PAPA ROACH
PAPA ROACH's picture

Yeah, no doubt that sticking a red hot poker in the eye of the buyer of our treasuries when low rates are the goal is dumber than a bag of hammers.

I'm no gold bug, but if I were china, I would dump a chunk of treasuries for gold as a warning shot.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:56 | 1764531 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

So easy, a Caveman™ could figure it out! :>D

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 04:05 | 1764756 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

In the amounts we're talking about, the more Treasuries you dump, the less they're worth and the more gold you buy, the more it costs. If China is willing to get 50 cents on the dollar for their treasury investments, they can dump quite a number of them. Likewise, if they want to buy 500 tons of gold at more than $3,000 an ounce, then they can probably find sellers. Unwinding their UST position will take China a decade or more and acquiring 5000 tons of gold will take China as long or longer at much high prices. I'm sure glad the US government doesn't owe me money.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 06:21 | 1764822 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

Do you really think China does not own a slew of nice derivative positions delivering x5 when they decide to dump Treasurys at whatever price? 

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:05 | 1764265 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

A couple questions come to mind. Since a house acceptance and Obama signature are unlikely will the Chinese fire a few real currency-war shots just to flex their muscles. Face is important after all. I also wonder how sucky it would feel to be Bill Gross with all that long term debt if China decides to dump.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:40 | 1764580 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Jim Rickards suggests the fed balance sheet is so large, that incoming principal payments can float a fat chunk of the federal deficit (not all - but a good chunk). So, the Chinese can withdraw for now and all will be well.



Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:42 | 1764179 deebee
deebee's picture

i agree, this is extremely bullish because China can now release the USD peg, their exports (US imports) can nose dive and interest on US debt to China can explode. Bernanke can add to the USD demise by continuing to debase...

It's all clear to me now... follow the chain of logic, this the new bull market!
Shanghai already up > 1%

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:44 | 1764585 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

US interest rates are going to collapse (short to even medium term).

Best of that luck with that trade.

DISCLOSURE: I am not trading shit, just my red neck opinion.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:33 | 1764475 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

Currency War?

How about a single paragraph dictate from the State Council that states that all US dollar trade transactions (Chinese exports) over one million be settled not in dollars, but physical gold.

Do the same for foreign direct investment and patriate gold to be held in a Beijing based state run vault, and then let the state banks loan that as collateral back to the foreign investors. Funny.  Those soft-brain fluoride drinking Harvard and Stanford MBAs will still consider it a value trade for the zero environmental laws and slave labor to tilt the last of US basic sciences into their Last Tango in Paris. Think of BAC investment in CBOC if there existed a gold retainer in country.

If things don't shake out for China in the next month, lower the conditions.

Until you see stories of empty New York and London gold vaults and physical gold filling bank basements in Hong Kong, Shanghai and Beijing, China will be 100% Bush League.

Why doesn't China have a World renowned version of Fort Knox?

Until China gets gold on its territory, the BIS will consider them XDR barbarians.

Make the Yuan this century's reserve currency.  It will only cost 10 years and 50 million Chinese lives.  You did it before and you can do it again. Great Leap, part duex.


Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:42 | 1764581 Cynical Sidney
Cynical Sidney's picture

you completely missed the point on gold and its dynamics with china's growing economy. there's a direct correlation between the price of gold and the chinese economy. such dynamic is the underpinning catch 22 when we run wargame sims on supercomputers, in which china tops the US in every possible endgame. China doesn't need gold it needs more oil. As the biggest producer of gold at current levels china benefits from give away gold and other rare metals in exchange for growth. if the dollar transactions are exchanged into gold, china loses their competitive edge (exports)in global trade and their foreign reserve goes up in smokes. china doesn't have a 'world renowned version of fort knox' because their mining operations are exactly that. currency war is the fight for the reserve currency status in global trade, it's a fight for oil and growth but not for gold.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:52 | 1764593 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Sir, this is the heart of the game:

How about a single paragraph dictate from the State Council that states that all US dollar trade transactions (Chinese exports) over one million be settled not in dollars, but physical gold.

Physical gold is being held by US/Euro systems precisely for the reset. China is going to get put out to pasture, unless there is a military based reordering of power.

Much of the gold on US soil never left US Army control; Knox and WestPoint. It can be borrowed, lent, leased, etc, but the bars never leave the repositories. When the music stops, the government will retain control at paper gain/loss for the counter party. Gold will revalue to whatever, and lack of metal will mean lack of trade terms.

I could be wrong, I would love to hear constructive arguments to the contrary, but such is my opinion/understanding at the moment.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:17 | 1764627 Reven
Reven's picture

The problem as I see it is that there is no world reserve currency.  The US Dollar is a poor substitute that creates distortions for both the user of those dollars internationally and the host country that provides the paper.  A true world reserve currency would not be tied to the internal affairs of a single nation or block of nations even.  Gold is the only logical choice as a world reserve currency and as a means to save without being robbed by the whims of monetary authorities.  Something tangible and valuable must be the anchor or focal point, and all fiat currencies will need monetary policies that target a stable price for gold in the long term.  The concept that it's desirable for the US, Europe, or even China to export their currency around the world to be used by foreigners is quite ridiculous.  All international trade should settle in gold.  Trade deficits will quickly become a giant sucking sound of gold leaving a currency zone, the value of the trade deficit nation's fiat currency against gold will fall, and equilibrium will be found.  Asian nations with excessive savings will see their currencies rise against gold, making it more desirable to spend those savings.  The free market will work if give it a chance.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:26 | 1764640 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I posted on that here:

I think it all leads to gold backed money. China has none. China is fucked.

Europe and the US will come out on top, the oil exporting economies (MENA) will be depleted and in decline, and China will lack the value add/ability to purchase inputs.

Thus my war conclusion.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:51 | 1764673 Reven
Reven's picture

I think gold will simply compete with fiat currencies and serve as a check and balance on monetary/fiscal policy.  This will only happen once the paper gold system burns to the ground, then gold will trade in a purely physical only market at a much higher price ($10,000-$50,000 an oz).  Gold for goods, gold for oil, gold for fiat.  It will be the great equalizer, brining stability to a world in total disarray after the great collapse.  If we simply use SDRs, that still makes the rest of the world dependant on the whims of Chinese, European, and US central bankers and policy makers.  This is not ideal and does not engender confidence.  There is no check on their collective will without gold in the equation.  The world will not sit still for such tyranny after TSHTF.  They will demand gold as payment, and they will settle for tiny grains of the shiny stuff for great quantities of goods and services.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:56 | 1763847 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Double secret probation bitchez.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:29 | 1764321 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Clearly, this is the time for someone, somewhere, to do something...completely useless and futile.

And the Senate is just the thing!

Toga! Toga! Toga!

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:34 | 1764477 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

...was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbor?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:54 | 1764596 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son!



Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:28 | 1763852 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Nice timing, PIMPCO

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:49 | 1763953 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Bill nailed it! He swore he wouldn't be fooled again, but, so did Bush?

Seriously, good job Bill, he must have read the Cramer book called " Getting back to zero".. err somenting like that?

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:55 | 1764228 jdelano
jdelano's picture

Getting back to zero....heh heh heh. First belly chuckle of the thread

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:06 | 1764542 Demologos
Demologos's picture

... The chinese are salty because we're treating our IOU's like a cat behind a chinese resturaunt.


What, that wasn't funny  enuf for ya?

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:32 | 1763876 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Now that they are warmed up, how about a formal default?

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:34 | 1763884 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Gentlemen, Wiki won't even have the need to change the name of this current article following the third World War; just add another entry.

And I quote, "In an effort to discourage Japanese militarism, Western powers including Australia, the United States, Britain, and the Dutch government in exile, which controlled the petroleum-rich Dutch East Indies, stopped selling iron ore, steel and oil to Japan, denying it the raw materials needed to continue its activities in China and French Indochina."

It needs to happen and it will.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:27 | 1764107 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Whats this?

@BloombergNews .@RickSantorum: "I want to go to war with China and make America the best place in the world to do business."


Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:39 | 1764166 trampstamp
trampstamp's picture

Sounds good to me. Lets stop beating around the bush and get this shit over with. Tired of all this stupid back and forth crap getting nowhere.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:59 | 1764604 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I wholly disagree with the demeanor of your comment.

I, however, can't argue with it's outcome.

I can only hope the military, in the event of outright war, is led to win, instead of led to occupy.

I don't want war, but I see it it as inevitable. Still not sure how the big players will fold without slinging nukes.

Maybe we all deserve it.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 07:46 | 1764939 trampstamp
trampstamp's picture

Agreed Cooter. That's what I really meant to say.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:35 | 1763894 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

Perfect. Hu, plz. dump $300 bn. of one-ply stuff to the crapper ... just for a reality check ....

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:36 | 1763896 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Oh, for fuck sake, China can go eat a bag of shit.  I mean, seriously, give it a fucking rest.  The never relenting catering to these jackoffs has to stop.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:44 | 1763932 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

You sound like a dumb HONKIE douche bag who talks a lot of shit. Go fuck yourself asshole.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:50 | 1763963 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

You read (or 'sound' as you put it) like a fucking moron that's never even been to that god foresaken shit hole.  Those fucking idiots can't carry our jocks.  They are only cheap ass labor and steal every fucking thing they can get their hands on.  They'll be back to pulling rickshaws and eating grass soup if we stick it to them.  I wouldn't give you a wooden nickle for that polluted and ignorant pile of dirt.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:12 | 1764047 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Hey stupid mother fucker, Your asshole country owes China 1,2 TRILLION dollars. You and your shitbag countrymen don't even have a pot to piss in. Meanwhile go home and put your 2 inch dick into your fat mama's mouth.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:19 | 1764075 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

LOL!  The debt is a FRAUD fucknut.  Good luck collecting.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:32 | 1764136 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

That's why they sent a lot of junk to America. LOL!!!!!

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:39 | 1764167 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

And why they all want to come to America as well, LOL!!!!

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:49 | 1764206 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Why  are many unemployed Americans  coming to China for low wages? LOL!!!!

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:56 | 1764208 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Bullshit.  Do better troll.


Inflation pushing Chinese jobs to America

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:00 | 1764243 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

You must be one of those stupid unemployed fuckers who ran out of the benifits and lives with his poor parents.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:07 | 1764268 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

LOL!!  More conformation of very weak trolling.  Come on you can do better than that. 

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:37 | 1764338 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

You haven't shown me anything yet except small brain,boy show me what else you've got  LMAO!!!!

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:43 | 1764184 philipat
philipat's picture

In fact, maybe Ben is planning to diversify into printing RMB?

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:22 | 1764083 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Right, and what do they OWE us for patent theft and currency pegging?  Please,,,stop.  They are printing more fiat than we are,

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:24 | 1764092 moskov
moskov's picture

really. let's print them now. 

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:02 | 1764607 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

ChinaCurrencyPeg + BernankeQE(n) = LetsPrintThemNow



Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:28 | 1764114 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yep, the truth is that the WORLD is printing.  I say we let the Chinese lead for a while, fuck it, it won't take long before the world will hate them more than America.  Ever deal with the Chinese in business?  I have.  They want to know all about your operations, but reveal nothing about theirs.  Fuck them, they got nothing and are in the same boat, only their boat has a BILLION people in it.  I turn down more applications from Chinese engineers and scientists in one week than I receive from any other country in one year.  If everything is so damn good in China, then why is everyone trying to get the fuck out?

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:35 | 1764150 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I'm a VP of Applications Engineering at an auto parts supplier and have been to China multiple times.  Their Engineers are fucking god awful.  I mean truly...god...fucking...awful.  And, you're right, it's constant pressure for us to reveal our proprietary technologies or 'partner' with them so they can steal it.

They are truly shit eating morons.  It's a shame so many Americans / Europeans are truly obtuse to that fact.  Somehow, they've convinced themselves that they are superior.  It's truly astonishing.  I highly suggest that any American / European visit the INDUSTRIAL zones to see what a fucking unreal polluted shit hole it is.  It has a severe calibrating effect on the idea that they are 'winning'.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:42 | 1764180 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Hey, stupid mother fucker, then you explain to me why  those wonderful American companies are moving to China.  I'm sure the guys who run the American companies are a lot smarter than a third rate loser like you.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:46 | 1764196 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I guess you missed the 'cheap ass labor' part of my statement.  Don't worry, I don't discriminate against the IQ impaired.  My employer is trying to open an operation there also.  We can't because there aren't enough Europeans and Americans willing to work, yet alone live, in that toilet to get it going.  We only need the locals to feed the raw material into the machines and press the bright green buttons.  Even at that, I'm quite sure they would fuck it up.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:13 | 1764278 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Hey stupid shitbag, tell me if Americans and Europeans are so smart, then why they are   in so much  debt and their economies in the shithouse.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:05 | 1764610 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Both of you guys, who purport that you screen engy degrees and dismiss "poorly qualified candidates" please post how qualified engineers can apply.

If you can't link to a job board of some kind, then you are probably full of shit.




Wed, 10/12/2011 - 10:36 | 1765612 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I've got some bad news for you, Chinaman.

You see, your Chinese overlords, by continuing to lower the value of their currency, transferred what should have been Chinese labourers' increased buying power, to themselves through the miracle of monetary debasement.

They then turned around and bought US debt.

That debt will never be repaid (at least, not in full).

So the joke here is being played by the Chinese elites and US citizens on the Chinese poor, who despite working their asses off will NEVER see anything like a fair exchange of value for their past toil.

And... US consumers who bought appallingly badly designed and made Chinese crap... over, and over again, because despite repeated bad experiences, kept buying items that said 'Made in China' because they were a few percent cheaper.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:54 | 1764225 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

What American companies?  Details troll.  Several Asian firms moving into the southeast United States now.  Plenty of water, energy and inexpensive skilled labor.  Moreover, companie are moving Jobs from China to the U.S. to avoid other inflationary costs.  Now we know you are a Chinese propaganda fuck.  Good night troll.


Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:38 | 1764300 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Try GM, Boeing, GE,   and a lot more. They are increasing their operations in China. A lot of these companies are moving some of their R&D centers to China because of lack of  qualified scientists and engineers in the States,plus it's a lot cheaper there.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:43 | 1764182 moskov
moskov's picture

Is this the reason a bunch of fat ass Americans can't get a job and they would have to be on food stamps in order to occupy the wall st? 

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:47 | 1764202 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I know you don't realize it....which is sad....but that's just a stupid fucking comment and really shows how ignorant you are.  But, to be fair....I did expect it.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:55 | 1764229 moskov
moskov's picture

Oh yeah. I am so impressed by your remarkable and inspirational words. I suspect your mum must be impressed by your anus...opps I meant your mouth.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:53 | 1764221 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Hey smart boy, what are you going to do about it?  

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:27 | 1764315 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

You desperatley need a life guard at your gene pool Honkie.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:45 | 1764368 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Hey boy, finally we agree on something. All the HONKIES need life guards at their cheap inferior gene pool.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 07:12 | 1764850 Fred123
Fred123's picture

As with most Asian countries all they can do is steal something and put it in the giant copy machine they call 'industry'. Let them nationalize all foreign companies and see how long they stay competitive, 10 years at the max and back to the rice paddies kiddies. 


Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:12 | 1763988 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Lemme guess honkie,   Your mother was a hermaphrodite and fucked herself to have YOU.    Or, it could have been during one of her neighborhood gang bangs - but, who really cares anyway

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:22 | 1764084 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

I bet your ugly HONKIE mother fucked a lot of black guys. I think you like to suck big black dicks. What a cock-sucking homo shitbag,

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:31 | 1764133 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

After 15 weeks 2 days I think it is safe to say you don't fit in here,

now run on home Humb Donkie

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:35 | 1764151 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Why don't you make me, Danny boy.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 22:44 | 1764189 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

hi dumb honkie. i have a pot to piss in, three in fact. my desk and pleather chair are nicer than anything you have too. can we be friends?

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:24 | 1764309 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Good for you, I'm so impressed, LMAO!!!

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:13 | 1764543 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I am also impressed. Did you and moskov come over here together? british eh? Some of the rauchiest sites I've ever visited came out of the uk. You guys aren't so bad though. Your kung fu is weak. Watch and learn.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:24 | 1764557 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

No I'm not out of UK and I don't know moskov.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:25 | 1764560 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Australia? South Africa?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:28 | 1764562 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture


Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:34 | 1764569 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Australia was a bad guess. Please choose one:

Countries where a comma is used to mark the radix point include:

Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada (French-speaking), Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both forms are in use elsewhere), Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both marks officially), Macau (in Portuguese text), Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa (officially[14]), Spain, Sweden, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 01:46 | 1764588 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

None of the above. Are you a linguist? I'm very impressed. I'm not really bad. I'm trying to give the racist and nasty commenters a dose of their own medicine.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:10 | 1764613 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I got called a honkie a few times growing up in East Texas. Got a few whoopins along the way as well. But I wasn't dumb. I certainly wasn't an glorified ass hat such as yourself.

ZH is about ideas, as much as you can chum and turn up a predator here and there, don't feel so empowered or influential.



Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:13 | 1764619 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

i have a feeling dh will be fine given a bit of time.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:47 | 1764670 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Hey fuckhead, did you call me an asshat ? If ZH is so classy,then Why do I see a lot of comments from stupid fuckers.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 02:14 | 1764614 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

We are the same. Welcome aboard.

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:09 | 1764272 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

You got me there, 

High verbal ability is useful for more than just impressing others -- it typically implies a certain facility with concepts and relationships between ideas -- but high V alone is a dangerous thing.

do you know why?

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:28 | 1764318 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

You sound like an unemployed social science major with a big dildo stuck up your ass, LOL!!!

Tue, 10/11/2011 - 23:50 | 1764378 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Thats it you creten, how about we meet out on the Mensa highway near exit 132 and we can settle this like men.

Oh wait, you probable don't have a car,  and I'm not sure you have a drivers license,

hell, I doubt you can ride a bike.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:01 | 1764404 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Oh I'm so scared shaking in my boots. Hey douche bag, you"d better bring a bazooka to fuck with me. You name the place and time, motherfucker, I'll gladly meet you.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:08 | 1764418 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Double entendres much?  Mensa?  exit 132?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:13 | 1764429 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

I'm still waiting for your reply,shitbag. I bet you are nothing but a chicken with a big mouth.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:17 | 1764441 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

He who strikes the first blow admits he's lost the argument.

Chinese Proverb.

I admit.


Wed, 10/12/2011 - 00:37 | 1764485 Dumb Honkie
Dumb Honkie's picture

Hey chicken shit. you challenged me and I accepted it. Are you going to back out of it like a spineless chicken? Is quoting a corny Chinese proverb  your way of challenge me like a man? LMAO!!!!!

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