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China Goes To TradeCon 2, Warns Currency Bill Will "Inevitably Lead To Serious Damage In China-US Trade Relations"
Save this press release for the archives: it may well be the formal counter announcement of a trade war from China, which now realizes it has a batshit schizo trading partner, one who critically needs China to recycle its mercantilist dollars into buying America's one ply toilet Treasurys, yet one which is now blasting China for doing just that...
From the Chinese Ministry of Commerce
On October 11, the U.S. Senate passed the "2011 Oversight Reform Act of currency exchange rate," Shen Danyang, a spokesman for the Ministry of Commerce has issued a statement that the recovery in the global economy facing a severe test of the critical moment, the U.S. Senate to force through legislation to promote trade partner currencies, is tantamount to upgrading the wrong signal on protectionism. This is a serious violation of international rules, and not only threatens the stable development of Sino-US economic and trade relations, but also with other countries to jointly cope with challenges, runs counter to efforts to oppose trade protectionism, China is firmly opposed.
Shen Danyang stressed that China has always maintained need for the two sides to strengthen communication, and to take common positive measures to develop Sino-US economic and trade cooperation. Once the motion is formally made into law, it will inevitably lead to serious damage to China-US economic and trade relations. China hopes that the U.S. after a rational and objective treatment of the exchange rate, makes the right choice.
And now, the PBOC gets involved too:
October 11, the U.S. Senate passed the "2011 Reform Act of currency exchange rate surveillance", which, we firmly oppose.
In recent years, China to accelerate the reform of RMB exchange rate formation mechanism, and has achieved significant results, the RMB exchange rate is becoming more and more reasonable and balanced level, but also for the international economy has made important contributions to financial stability. It won't solve the U.S. economy and employment problems and will only seriously disturb Sino-U.S. economic and trade relations and will also disturb the efforts of the two countries and global community's joint efforts to promote the world economic recovery and growth.
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COJONES.
My professional opinion is that you are not a honkie.
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Regards,
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Aren't you so smart!!!!! LMAO.
'With rising alexa rankings, comes more trolls.' - Mark Twain?
Boy, you are one of them.
I guess China still remains kind of defensive, as it knows that BRIC demand will not suffice for now. It cannot give up on its treasuries and near-term EU and US demand for now.
the schizophrenic question only is, at which US treasury level does the net effect present a larger relative burden to China than to the US. Can China really play the treasury card and dump or would it hurt its reserves too much? Without gold reserves and poorly performing EUR reserves, a USD dump does not appear to be an option right now. Guess that caused the timing of the Senate bill. Artificially leveled the playing field for a trade war.
Well, let's see:
1. China dumps about $250 billion in Treasuries - and leaks it to world
2. FED now forced to buy those in the marketplace, putting a damper on TWIST - the telegraph to market that all is OK confirms further monetization
3. Dollar starts a small dip down, maybe goes below 72 -- speculators jump in, smelling blood in the water
4. OIL, gold, silver and food begin a fox trot up the charts -- creating inflationary pressures and destroying discretionary spending before holidays
5. A negative feed-back loop happens -- our long awaited Black Swan appears...
I dunno, could be bad....
thats the consumtption perspcective, but you are missing the production and the competitive threat to China caused by a USD depreciation. With a USD dump it would only indirectly comply with US demands for relative appreciation of the RMB. Don't you think so? Seriously curious, open for other theses.
Not missing it in the least. They are a command-and-control economy. They could subsidize their exports for a while, they could continue to create havoc for the US while propping up thier other trading partners, they could strengthen thier currency and get a much needed break from inflationary pressures while increasing purchases of oil and other resources. That would squeeze the US and force the US to spend 'hard money' to import oil, etc.
The Chinese will jaw bone till the time is right for them, of course. But, they hold the upper hand at this point in time. The US's clock is ticking down
In the long run I totally agree, but with a US/China trade deficit widening, subsidies will be retaliated with trade tariffs, successfully. I guess the emergy/commodity buy-up policy, possibly even creating strategic reserves is the most dangerous poin to the US. Agreed with that.
Both of you act like any of this will proceed in any sort of a rational manner. The collective mentality of the Chinese is their strength and their weakness. I say we step aside and let these mother fuckers have the world stage. They HATE freedom, something that the world loves. Let's let them lead and mind our own business for awile. Soon enough the world will despise them more than America.
Appreciate the idea, would sure work, seriously, only that super powers do not let others try to be super powers guessing they will perform even worse and be turned down by the world again. I guess that is too abstract behavioral, if you like.
Depends how you define a superpower. I venture to say that decisions and strings being pulled out of Germany and Israel have more significant consequences than anything the "superpowers" have done lately. No country or nation can fight chaos, entropy, or the laws of physics. All these fucknuts still want to believe that infinite growth on this finite world is possible and that it can be controlled. Makes for good, if not tragic entertainment, but that is about it. hedge accordingly, that is all one can do anyway.
Totally with you, the growth story is buried and with it the equity multiples. Don't overstimate the German power, they actually with very reasonable politics defend their conservative monetary policy, which should be a role model to the world. Both, politically and economically they have only emancupated in the past ten years, however, with harsh liberally-oriented reforms, having already paid their price for being competitive in the world. I would rather say, the US/Zionist strings, pulled by the London-based absolute power in fact manage a balance of power for now, position of both sides in debt, let the stronger party prevail and collect debt and interest from both sides.
You are extrapolating too far. Perspective please.
US is still the elephant in the room -- richest nation, largest economy, has deep, liquid and predictable financial markets, innovative and dynamic economic eco-system and the list goes on and on.
Per macroeconomics theory, any tariff imposed on chinese made products is a wealth transfer from the manufacturers (chinese or china based US producers) and consumers to the US govt (read US taxpayers).
China for all its recent growth, is still an emerging market economy that is more reliant on other people buyig her poor quality wares (it is another matter that the world has got used to living with poor workmanship). Many a country has seen its fifteen minutes come to an abrupt end e.g. Japan was going to takeover the world in the 80's...alas Nikkei is still down 70%!!
China holds roughly 10% of outstanding treasury debt which makes up over 50% of chinese reserves (my guess). China is a large player but in an even larger market. Dumping 200 to 300 Billion will impact yeilds at most for a couple of weeks if at all. And if it does, China is the loser not US. They will sell low after having bought high. Now, if China takes this personally, and dumps all its holdings and buys nothing, Yuan will appreciate and they lose in multiple ways (lost cost cometitiveness, repartriation of capital, hard landing and social unrest or at least chinese version of it). They are bluffing and we should call their bluff!
So before we jump to foretell the future lets take a step back and ponder the possibilities without panicking first and analysing later...enough said...enjoy!!
Re status quo, you are right, but the question is whether the tipping point has arrived. The relevant trade off is whether a burning of reserves in a reserve-building economy hurts less than the loss a loss of ability to create debt in a structurally decreasing economy. Generally speaking, the growing creditor is in a power position, only the slow shift of demand from the debitor to the creditor nation (and other BRICS) maintains a power balance.
Let's work at this.
If China dumps treasuries, their price drops and their yields rise. Not what the US wants.
Furthermore, treasury yields are at all-time lows, meaning they bought them at a lower price. So if they sold them now, it's quite possible they'd do so at a profit. Particularly with the Fed wanting to squash yields (ie, putting a floor under the market)
With the dollars they get, the Chinese turn around and buy gold/silver/copper/oil/ equities/real estate, all at depressed prices.
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
The main reason they won't, I suspect, is that they wouldn't want to trigger a general panic out of US treasuries, thereby losing the value of all their USD securities. I'm sure they'll do it eventually, but it's the final move at the end of the game, rather than the opening gambit. Having said that, other US treasury holders would see the $300B dump as a political retaliatory gesture, so it probably wouldn't spook them. So maybe the Chinese will do it. Hmmm.
It is schyzo .. therefore just 300 bn. They're loosing money anyway. Bernank pumps confetti in the tanks of €utanic so he can print even more, ECB goes full retard with the repos, even before the EFSF Frankenstein stand up ... and PBoC looks at the pile of T-Junk-Bonds melting every second.
Why not make some party with confettis ... :-P
Wait, I red in the german papers the US of A pays the debts for sure ... :-P
US treasury is the last life support for the purchasing power of dollar. US economy lives on more about CONFIDENCE than China does because almost 70% of US economy is service sector based. US import more than its export year after year and the deficit is enormous. If China dumps the US treasury, then JAPAN, SAUDI will all rush to dump them before China finishing the job.The hole is enormous not even FED can print them up in time. The last one who owns the dollar lose in a big time. This has been confirmed by IMF, US is the biggest Financial Economy but China is the biggest Manufacturing Economy. Who lose the most when fiat deads, You know. The dollar-based system would collapse in a epic scale and don't forget Dollar is issued by the US. It's US's own blood but not China's.
Gold reserve is useless since Fort Knox hasn't been audited for years and there's big question mark whether the Fed still has them. Nobody in their right mind would send their gold to New York for nonsense reason being called only gold reserve left in this world. China has tons of gold in their hands and they are the biggest gold producer in the world. They don't need the fake gold from Fort Knox since dollar system is finished in a big time. When the dollar dies, most of the 3rd world would bankrupt and what they would need would be even more massive cheap Chinese goods. not the coke cola or overpriced walmart.
You make some good points. Let me check on where the USA's aircraft carriers are hanging out, and I'll get back to you.
Exactly. I would love to listen to the hubris but the sound of kicking your ass is too loud. These Chinks are getting way ahead of themselves.
Really? Yanks been kicking turban men's asses and they are still kicking it..What a bloody joke.
Deal with China? Think again.
And you wanna guess how China solves it's over-population of men? Like maybe a nice ground invssion of some neighbors?
aircrafts? Let's go nuclear straight away. Who the fucks care about aircrafts
OK, let's give some free orange afros to the Chinamen. Fine with me.
Fine with you? Fine with me too by seeing your lovely ass country finally put into the dustbin of history.
I love steaming jealousy. Evey corner of China is loaded with KFC, McDonalds, Subway, fake Apple stores, Buicks, and faggot Chink kids pretending to be gangster rappers. Yet, this fuckwad wants to insist that the US is inferior.
Wow.......I am so impressed by every inch of America is covered by made in China hallmark even includs your beloved dildo, blow-up doll and American flag on the top of capital hill. Is that the reason your country is so rich and wonderful? Even the day Steve Jobs dead there has been no single real apple jobs being created in the US. lol. Pretty epic shit.
LOL....WHAT?
Jesus Christ, this is the level of education and intellect that we're up against. Fuck it, I'll sleep well tonight.
Yeah. Enjoy your junkfood and niger raps...haha. Don't wake up with a wet bedsheet.
There are 2 g's in nigger my little grasshopper. Enjoy the little universe you've created in your own mind. You've certainly worked hard to create it for yourself.
I thought you went to bed already. You may need a jerk off to help you shout up and sleep perhaps? Too bad,you are already jerked too much
Awwww don't stop, your engrish give me boom boom laughs.
Ahh, dis too easy. Nexsh time, you look in big book of Ameican idiom and check sperring frrsh, ok? You inernashonal propaganda mastermind genius type man so it easy - easy like do fucky fucky with homeless man then go home to wife.
Jesus, the quality of the Chinese propaganda squads is going downhill FAST! Certainly not indicative of China's finest.
There are no innocent or rightful parties in this relationship. Each is the dope pusher to the other's addiction.
Just leave the rest of us out of it, please.
It is complete interdependence and I can't imagine that it happened by accident.
The Globalists love to 'divide and conquer'. Interdependence is a great way to intertwine two nations beyond the point of no return, and then they blame and fight each other. Maybe not to the point of destruction, but enough to make life difficult for everyone in America and China.
Who benefits? The richest, the Billionaire's Club, as I like to call it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGYAhiMwd5E&list=PLD9544CE8B7CE5656&index=49
Root for the fucking bread lines!
Fed's out of ammo,
Fiscal stimuli is decreasing,
Regulation remains high,
Uncertainty abounds,
Confidence nill,
And along comes Smoot Hawley II.
Great, just fucking great.
But then again, the Bernak can always print more
Obambucks
"100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back"
actually the greatest threat to the US is China bailing out Europe. It has a reason to depreciate versus the USD and Europe's sinoties strengthen and its competitive position improves. So FED action has a counterparty threat, which may well be, why Benny does do shit right now.
No fucking way! The chinese need to bail out europe to keep their imports coming without disruption. Now if the Chinese got everyone to price and buy oil in Euros......
Europe is a sideshow -and everyone's sidekick. They have just stated that europe needs "Permanent Austerity".
That means no more buying chinese imports. Oil priced in silver, as no one will trade gold.
Exactly, so China's EU bailouts will only have a depreciating effect concerning RMB/US. Consider oil traded in RMB also, Nigeria already swithing to RMB reserves, increasing Chinese oil demand pushing OPEC towards RMB pricing. Iran will sure like to defect.
"No fucking way! The chinese need to bail out europe to keep their imports coming without disruption.!"
Ain't gonna come . Nigeria just started to deal the China oil-contracts in RMB.
The biggest disruption for chinese exports r the EU-retailer margins. Chinese could decide to bring the stuff themselves in EU - still about 27 % cheaper then the Wall-Mart, ALDI, LIDL scammers ... :-P
( Some minor bribes for the dutch politicians could do the job ). Chinese ideogram for Rotterdam ?
See above, agree re oil/RMB, but shipping stuff to EU and establishing the retail channels are two entirely different things.
.."but shipping stuff to EU and establishing the retail channels are two entirely different things ".
... Carlyle Group will help :-P
Me dumb, but the hints of ZHedgers r shivering - ( thanx a lot for all the hints, Axmelnejaal, or Jim , I'd like to give a credit to all of the guys who helped me with connecting some dots ).
Seems that CG want to corner all the containers, for an exclusive deal with Chinese. Rockefeller-Style. ( Baltic Dry - another hint ).
" actually the greatest threat to the US is China bailing out Europe."
Ain't gonna come - Benitto Berlusconi and couple of other EU-Jerks have been expecting the chopper with chinese money ... as Tyler pointed out, score in the game - China 2, US 1, €U 0 ....
Turkey is not in €U, and lot of chinese money just find the way to Ankara. Transasian net of bullet trains somehow smarter then pumping the dead corpse with adrenalin.
Missing my point, sure there are better investments than EU sovereigns, but China wants to keep up EU demand for now. And the bullet train, on fictitious trails through Afghanistan? Takes decasdes to build and empires to defend, forget about it, the US has fought longer for easier oil transfers.
I haven't missed your point - they want to keep €U demand, for sure - but the paralized bureaucrats in €U doesn't allow even a six months of calculated export risks - and the Goldmanites are shorting the shit of the €U, with lot of chance for an immediate breakup of EZ...
T-Bonds r not the option, so what can they do ? Build another ghosttown? If they pay and build complete railroad net to Thailand ( no forseeable profit of that stunt ), why shouldn't they throw money all over the place instead of bailing out the EU.
( I made a joke about Rotterdam, because Hutchinson-Whampoa already there, killing the wages and margins in the harbour ).
China is going to ram gold to the moon now.
nope, as long as it is accumulating, it will sure have no incentive to push PM prices. Reserve levels definitely do not call for pushing PMs.
Or did I miss your point. If you suggest, China prints or dumps for competitive reasons, then you may be right, but I would still thing they have an interest in accumulating PMs, why they would try to conduct a trade war without too much effect on PM.
the characters have been arranged improperly. i think somebody needs to ask the Chinese government if they know how to spell properly. It should be top to bottom, right to left please in order for it to be understood by Chinese students in the USA.
You'll probably ban me, but fuck China. They are the enemy. We'll be at war with them at some time soon.
I think there are more ready to adopt you than ban you. You're right. We'll be at war, military or trade related, with these asswipes in the very near future. Let's get it on already. I'm not about to get my 3 year old son's eyes tucked just yet.
China is acting in its self interest, I don't find that to be unreasonable. They may get on a soapbox occasionally, but so what. Is it any worse than Timmay lecturing the world on fiscal prudence?
fiscal prudence = don't pay your taxes
this isn't herr denninger's blog. you're going to have to do much better than that if you want to get banned around here.
Right! They haven't banned you yet. BTW, your comments and pic are always appreciated.
Right! They haven't banned you yet...
Exactly. I have been banned from dozens of lesser blogs than this one in short order. You are welcome.
The common enemy of all nations including the US, Europe and China are the.......
Benny, Jamie an Lloydie ... ?
Dallas Cowboys?
.... pissed off, broke, unemployed, educated masses with guillotines?
Nobody will ban you here. We are all adults. Welcome aboard!
Btw. ..... FUCK CHINA
Nobody will ban you here. We are all adults. Welcome aboard!
Btw. ..... FUCK CHINA
Let China inform us about how we're doing the right thing through their anger.
Who created modern china ?
Nixon and kissinger went to china and licked mao's ass dozen of times so he will agree with their policys
they destroyed soviet russia just to create a monster 100 times more dangerous
WTF is with this hoax bill ?
The Sino-Soviet split was a deception maintained as a component of a long-range strategy agreed to by the Communists of the USSR, China, and 79 other communist parties from within the Communist bloc and without at the 81 Party Congress held in Moscow in December 1960.
By convincing President Nixon to open up China in 1970, suspected KGB agent Henry Kissinger lured the U.S. into a trap. Kissinger convinced Nixon that China could be used by the U.S. to weaken the USSR but in reality the Soviets and Chinese were engaged in a scissors strategy designed to create conditions in which the Chinese Communist Party would be able to maintain power by improving economic conditions in that country as well as make possible the fulfillment of the conditions of the 81 Party Congress agreement, which dictates that each Communist party which holds power in a socialist state must have as its top priority the strengthening of its military forces to the maximum extent possible so as to be able to fully participate when the combined forces of communism at last move to crush the forces of capitalism with their one clenched fist.
The plan signed on to in 1960 originally calculated that the time for the deciding military attack against the U.S. would take place in the last decade of the 20th century. Although it has been delayed, it has not been revoked. It will not be averted.
http://thefinalphaseforum.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=44
"WTF is with this hoax bill ?"
PEE = pre-electoral entertainement
US Treasuries are a terrible investment. They pay very little interest and will become almost worthless when the US is finally forced to inflate.
The Chinese would do much better by investing in their own economy. They still have lots of people working on low-productivity, low-tech family farms who could be made much more productive if they had modern factories to work in. The Chinese should be encouraged to spend their surplus on capital equipment to boost their economy. This would create jobs in the US and improved jobs in China. It would be good for both countries.
This punitive legislation (which has no chance of passing) will not help the US and is really just buck-passing by politicans who have totally broken the US financial system by being tools of the banksters.
The bill will never pass and is nothing but symbolic nonsense. Nice that our congressional leaders(?) have time for playing these games while Rome burns ...
When the China Bubble Bursts
By JR NYQUIST
If the world has invested in the wrong things, and China is one of those things, then the bursting of the China bubble may be the greatest catastrophe of all. China’s financial system is a mess, and a major crisis cannot be far off. With the U.S. economy dipping lower and Europe facing its own financial nightmare, China cannot postpone its own day of reckoning. So what will China’s leaders do? What plans have they made?
To give readers some idea of the problem, a recent WikiLeak revealed that the U.S. had advanced knowledge of a secret Chinese missile test last year. In response to this revelation, Chinese Gen. Xu Guangyu told the South China Morning Post that American officials possessed enough advanced detail to suggest the presence of a sensitively placed U.S. spy in China’s rocket forces. According to the South China Morning Post, Gen. Xu said that “if China could no longer keep secret its missile launches, it would not be able to launch a surprise attack on the U.S.”
But why would China want to launch a surprise attack on the U.S.?
In 2005 Chinese Defense Minister Chi Haotian explained that an ailing Chinese economy would produce a social explosion that could sweep away the Communist Party. “If we do not have good ideas,” warned Chi, “China will inevitably change … and we will all become criminals in history. After some deep pondering, we finally came to this conclusion: only by turning our developed national strength into the force of a fist striking outward – only by leading the people to go out – can we win forever the Chinese people’s support and love for the Communist Party.”
To survive the consequences of an economic downturn, the Party needs to lead the Chinese people – as Chi Haotian suggests – “out of China.” This may seem confusing to those who think China is a post-Communist country; but as journalist Richard Mcgregor points out in his book The Party, China is yet a Leninist state. And yes, they really are Communists, though what this means is lost on nearly all outside observers – and somewhat bewildering to the Chinese themselves. The rulers of China keep their Communist goals and objective from public view. They do not like the glare of publicity; and so they banned Mcgregor’s book because he underscored the Party’s control over the army, police media and big business.
Two things are important to remember about the Chinese Communist Party: first, Communism remains a philosophy set against freedom; second, Communism is ultimately about the elimination of capitalism in favor of socialism (because capitalism opens the way to freedom). This latter point was underscored by none other than Deng Xiaoping himself – and by the Party in its secret conclaves today. But few in the West have bothered to read Deng’s collected works. Neither have they understood the reason for the Communist Party retaining its name and its ideology behind the scenes, where its strategies are meditated in secret.
The rationale behind Chinese capitalism is not to eliminate Communism. The rationale is to fight fire with fire – to defeat capitalism by capitalist means. The objectives of “Chinese capitalism,” as conceived by Deng Xiaoping, were outlined in an article published by the Hong Kong newspaper Cheng Ming on 6 June 1991. Here it was shown that Deng Xiaoping was secretly working to advance Sino-Soviet supremacy while the Americans were duped into giving China everything it needed. After the fall of the Soviet Union, as reported by Bill Gertz in the Washington Times of 21 Oct. 1992, China and Russia signed a pact restoring intelligence ties. From that point forward the Russians assisted the Chinese in their continuing military buildup.
The Chinese Communist goal was clearly stated at the beginning, in 1977, when Deng Xiaoping explained the strategy of opening economic relations with the West. Deng told the CCP Central Committee that they were engaged in “the international united front struggle” which was a strategy about which the “American imperialists” know absolutely nothing. “We belong to the Marxist camp,” he explained, “and can never be so thoughtless that we cannot distinguish friends from enemies.” According to Deng, President Nixon and President Ford were enemies, as well as President Carter. All future “American imperialist leaders” were also enemies. “What we need mainly is scientific and technical knowledge and equipment,” he said. In the future, America “will have no way of avoiding defeat by our hands.”
The strategic thinking of the Chinese Communist leadership holds that as long as America continues to enrich China, and as long as China can build its military power, then peace is workable. But when the economic wellspring runs dry and the Sino-American partnership has exhausted its profitability, then peace becomes unworkable. Rising discontent within China must then be diverted. The natural course would be for the people to hold the country’s leaders responsible, and to remove them from power. Many of these leaders would be tried as criminals, and would lose their heads. The only alternative to this would be war with the United States. This course automatically shuts down the Chinese democracy movement, which would have to choose between China and America in the course of a life-and-death struggle. In such a contest, the Chinese Communist Party automatically wins the assent of nearly all Chinese – including democrats.
And so, the best course for a failing Chinese economy is war. One might ask what kind of war? In a secret 2005 speech given by Chinese Defense Minister Gen. Chi Haotian (titled “War is not far from us and is the midwife of the Chinese century”), a biological attack on the United States was suggested as optimal. “It is indeed brutal to kill one or two hundred million Americans,” said Gen. Chi. “But that is the only path that will secure a Chinese century….” Having already noted that millions of Chinese would die if the Chinese economy collapsed, Gen. Chi explained that the only way out for China was to “teach the Chinese people to go out” (i.e., attack the United States). “We, as revolutionary humanitarians, do not want deaths,” said Chi. “But if history confronts us with a choice between deaths of Chinese and those of Americans, we’d have to pick the latter….”
Worried about the Chinese public’s reaction to the mass extermination of Americans, the Chinese Communist Party conducted an online survey through an intermediary. “[W]e wanted to know whether the people [of China] would rise up against us if one day we secretly adopted resolute means to ‘clean up’ America,” Gen. Chi explained. The survey asked if it was acceptable to shoot prisoners of war, along with women and children. If an overwhelming majority approved of such measures, “then they would approve our ‘cleaning up’ America,” said Chi.
The curious American reader might ask how the Chinese public reacted to the survey. “What turned out to be comforting,” noted Gen. Chi, “is they [the Chinese public] did not turn in a blank test paper. In fact, they turned in a test paper with a score of over 80. This is the excellent fruition of our Party’s work in propaganda and education over the past few decades.”
And so, if China’s economy stops growing, America should expect that its relations with China will deteriorate. This is based on the internal logic of the Chinese political system – which appears to be locked on a collision course with America.
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/jr-nyquist/2011/09/06/when-th...
http://thefinalphaseforum.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=44
Never mind China's bubble. Mind your own Treasury Bubble which would every single printing machine in the US out of order
There is still the problem of location, location, location. Historically, it has been difficult to win a battle so far away from one's own soil. Think Afganistan. Vietnam. The American Revolution. The South was going to win the Civil War until they marched to the North. It is difficult to win a war when the husbands are on the front lines fighting you and the women and children are behind you cutting off your supply lines. Maybe a nuke? But if China can deliver one, you'd best believe that we can too. A dirty bomb? Too few casualties to matter. Not sure about modern warfare today, but the US has historically been hard to tackle. But just in case, I'm locked, loaded and pissed off.
Death can be visited upon an enemy in many ways. A cannister may be opened in one part of a city, releasing odorless, colorless gas that is, in itself, quite harmless, until it mixes with the contents of another cannister opened and dispersed from a distant location.
Biological weapons, perfected and mass-produced in the Soviet Union, achieve no less than 50% effectiveness.
Tactical nuclear weapons will, by the time Chinese, Russian, Cuban, and other Communist troops are on the ground in force, have already been used to destroy targets such as nuclear missile silos and military bases. Such pockets of resistance as might exist after the capitulation of the government can be dealt with in any number of lethal ways.
It is of no importance to our enemies that any American survives. In fact it is their preference that none of us do.
http://thefinalphaseforum.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=44
Nah, someone has fed you a line of crap. Odorless gasses have a tendancy to disperse. Water supply infiltration is better. Just sayin.
I'm so glad corporate America has invested hundreds of billions of dollars building factories and investing in China instead of the U.S., giving them all of our manufacturing, technology and jobs, and paying the wages of all those Chinese workers while Americans go unemployed, all for corporate profits in the short term, while fucking us and themselves to death in the long term. What a bunch of greedy fucking geniuses. The U.S. really has become a nation of dumb fucks. And it's not just the U.S. government, it's corporate America too.
Easy, our €U-fucks r more efficient and faster - they obliterated the continent in less than 22 years.
DotCom bubble €U-style ( Neue Markt ) was far more efficient in destruction of wealth than any other scam-stunt.
double.
I would be careful with literal translation of chinese leaders. In the 70s Deng must have had to toe the party line for any change to occur. Compare American leaders. Many suspect China of aggressive intentions many others do not. Here we can just blurt it out. In the Chinese political system I suspect one must always mention Mao before celbrating a great and profitable year. The Chinese love prosperity and none want to live in interesting times...cept a few generals longing for glory.
Perhaps the Chinese should ask themselves exactly what they consider about their 'relations' with the US that we are at risk of losing. Is it that they would use 'gunboat' diplomacy with our friends and allies in the region over small rocks in the ocean? No, they are already doing that. Stop using their influence to moderate the behavior of a nut regime that depends on them. No, they haven't exactly been spearheading the effort to neuter North Korea? Maybe China would stop protesting the passage of US Navy ships transitting international waters through the 110 mile wide passage between China and Taiwan. No, they haven't done that either. OK, here's an easy one. Would China agree to abide by international law as regards patents and intellectual property rights. Sorry, they won't even do that.
Fuck them!
maybe the coming war will look like this scene from Libya today: Here's hoping.....
http://2012hipster.blogspot.com/2011/10/modern-hero.html
Get ready for any of the US's puppet "rating agencies" (see: Moody's, etc) to put China on credit downgrade...or worse if China blinks. It's on bitchez...and it's gonna get ugly.
Silver.
This story started so long ago it defies reason how citizens cannot discern facist and the socialist faction pissing contest and they both say its raining. The moderates have been removed from decades of discourse in the acedemics theator of design also in there bent of mind. I made a effort to deprogram my children after high school and they now report the inertia of design to the second hand dealers we call intellectuals. We have a ways to go before bottom so as ZH properly conveys be ready for the obvious since we are warning you to subtle realities you missed. Just because a picture is taken from another angle it does not change the topic of design in store for us the taxpayers who inlarge are captivated by demagogues who absolutley do not care about you at all. The story is about there directly connected interests and nothing else as we already know. Prepare for the obvious since this is what it is all about. If you cannot, it is safe to say you can never be of help to another.
http://www.softwar.net/
It was sold to the facist players you call ccp. Truly follow the money first then opinions dilute facts.
This ain't your daddy's Hop Sing!
All they have to do is threaten to sell +100 Billion in Treasuries and the Senate will get an instant limp dick.
Not too swift of a move if you want to retain any value in your remaining treasuries.
"threaten"
It's the only reason why they're useful to the Chinese. They surely don't consider them a good investment merely on the basis of the juice.
Maybe China hasn't heard of Heli-Ben and his bond pusrchases???? $100 billion? Please..........Ben's got that covered faster than a high frequency trader.
China's too far away to care about......
What about that missile China launched off the coast of California?
I think you mean an enourmous flaming pelican. Move along....
I suppose it must have missed CA or I would care.
We don't need no Walmart shit. Go suck 100 year eggs. ( And dump all your USTs immediately - please)
Iphones are made in Chinkland.
Oh crap! Say it ain't so!
Soon to be made here, have you ever heard of Americas free trade zones? they are parts in cities of all 50 states that have already been gifted, sold or traded for debt to the Chinese Govt, and are considered soverign soil of China, Go look it up and it will show you a map of every city in every state that this is already happening in. These "zones" is where IPhones and consumer electronics will be assembled. You fill in the blank in respect to wages. One is being populated right now in Idaho as I am typing this. Search.
Project 60
Boise Idaho: http://emergingcorruption.com/2011/06/barbarians-within-the-gate/
I was initially clued into this passing a remark about China to one of my Sergents at the Farm, he replied, "What if I told you that Toyota's being built in Tennesee are being driven in China", well, I almost shit myself, then he went on to schooling me about the rise of the Red Star being USSR and China as partners on a global scale and imbedded in our USPTO and the back door they have to the Pentagon. And to boot, this has a GE Jefferey Immelt smack to it in regaurds to a joint US Power generation, no suprise there huuh? Total traitor.
See, we are already China's bitch, the sheep just don't know it yet.
This will come to pass because all the ground work has been laid down. Wake up America, their next step is to turn our Military arms into UN Private Contractors NATO with no Allegiance to any Flag.
This link can help you get started:
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/chinainfiltrationzones28jan11.shtml
Here is the Map, click on your state to find the FTZ.
http://ia.ita.doc.gov/ftzpage/letters/ftzlist-map.html
Ron Paul's take on it: http://www.dailypaul.com/155091/257-foreign-trade-zones-across-america
III
The Bad Guy.
The response of Congress to the mood on the street? It's easier to blame China than US Corporations because Congress is owned by the latter? In any case, a collapse of the dollar is what the Fed wants anyway.
Short Apple on a trade war. Apple's margins shrink to nothing after GM plants are converted into Apple factories filled with the Great American Unionworker
This is bullshit theater for US domestic consumption and some posturing for the FED. A Chuck Schumer sponsored bill I believe, the dependable water carrier for GS. Will never pass the House. This is about scapegoats for the bad economy, the double dip recession, and for when the SHTF. Nothing is ever the fault of our own looney government policies. Got it, the Tea Party and China are the axis of evil..... who will be next?
Chi-Coms haven't done anything to me except saved me lots of $$ on things I buy and floated our government debt. That's more than my country has done.
Let it roll...this was coming. At least it will slam Wall Street into hysteria i.e stocks
China will re-peg. One hell of a trade war will start maybe not be such a bad thing
"it will inevitably lead to serious damage to China-US economic and trade relations."
Fuck China, there never should have been trade relations with that totalitarian shithole in the first place.
Yo PIMCO...you are getting played. The war begins
*I've spotted some Japanese and Chinese banks unwinding their short U.S. dollar positions. I expect the pair will rise more with many buying orders in the pipeline," the trader says.
Are people really that stupid. China and the US had a relationship. Their currency was always weak and the US never did a darn thing. Now, all of a sudden, when shit is about to hit the fan, the US makes a fuzzz. please. This is part of the final economic faze collapse that's been preplanned for years. Watch an announcement from china this weekend that will send the world markets Reeling down.
China is supposed to be the new world power. Like Japan before it. Ok, let's review some things:
China lives in a very bad neighborhood. They have fought numerous wars/border skirmishes (recently) with Vietnam, Russia, India, Japan, S. Korea and so forth. They may have a billion people, but they have far more enemies.
China's economy is even more of a fraud than ours is. If collecting our debt thru trade made you a superstar, Japan would have owned the world by now several times over. China is no different, except they are worse off. Corruption is off the charts, and when everyone is on the take your days are numbered, especially when they get a recession. Ask the Soviet Union. And their debt is unknowable because their books cannot be believed. Unfortunately, we are on the same path unless a miracle happens, and we get honest and decent Congressmen and President. Fat chance of that.
China is not homogenous. It is much like an empire, with the outlying areas beyond central control. The commies know this, which is why they must have growth in employment constantly. Otherwise, it's Tianamen Square x 1000.
Don't think for a second that the US is losing sleep over China retalliating. CEOs are of course worried about their excessive profits, earned exclusively by slave wage Chinese along with zero regulations. Bottom line is China has far more to lose in a trade war than we do. And we both know it. We catch a cold. They die of respiratory arrest.
The only country that I can see overtaking the US is Germany. They seem to have an effective blend of government, unions, corporate responsibility, social contract and pride in products. But every time they get too big, a war coincidentally happens. Right now their hands are full with th euro. Once they get rid of that stone around their necks, watch out!
Germany is rapidly aging and their population is insufficient to challenge the US. They import Muslims who do not share their culture or asperations to greatness, and this will contribute to their decline as Germans are slowly displaced by such people who live only for Allah (and apparently procreation), not profits or pride in production. Germany also benefits from the weakness of their Euro neighbors the same way China benefits from the pegging and weakness of their currency. If Germany had to stand alone on a currency solely based on that single country, the new Germany currency would probably be worth close to 1.60-2.00 dollars. Germans feel like they are getting a bad deal by being in the Euro, but they have benefited through trade/currency distortions.
You have to think about the "end game"..
China has to be broken in several pieces that will be easier to control for the west..
To strike China ( as Iran ) the US need to have "good reasons"... So they are fabricating good reasons...
I foresee a random ICBM launch poff the east coast this time... Apparently the west coast was not enough..
not exactly coincidental... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-11/wal-mart-shuts-6-more-china-stores-temporarily-over-pork-label.html
China is buying (Shanghai) stocks mad style. Like last session.
Yep. Pimpco could be adding to it. Re: earlier post Gross bullish emerging market equities. I hates it.
Live Trading for 12 October is up now
http://capital3x.com/think-tank/12-october-trading-room/
Whew.. we're better off than I realized.. I thought UST's were 1/2 ply.
If you haven't noticed the majority of folks in the U.S. are so pissed they want to kill something or someone very badly. Fuck the Chinese. Fuck debt...Long live Slovakia and Richard Sulik !
Yeah major props to Slovakia for telling France to go f*ck it's self...they also showed more balls than the Germans
to Dumb Honkie, is your name Mike Bacsik?
???????????????
you made it to google, you should be proud
Senate Passes China Currency Legislation Bill 63-35 | ZeroHedge www.zerohedge.com/.../senate-passes-china-currency-legislation-bill-... You +1'd this publicly. Undo
5 hours ago – You sound like a stupid HONKIE mother fucker. go home fuck your ugly mama. Login or register to post comments. Tue, 10/11/2011 - 18:50 ...
The US government and Business spends 40+ years building the dirt poor Communist peasants into something lifts there sorry ass off the ground and they act like the US is Batshit crazy. Hey...Wanta see Batshit crazy ? Just wait until the Reds have to actually maintain what they think they have, maintain what the west was stupid enough to hand away in the name of Global Fiat. Well see those Reds marching with Guns ablazing!!
Those in Congress believe they've got bigger dicks because they always wear XXXXXL-size condoms. Stupidity prevails because they think things will always come to their way if they keep shouting the mantra and keep paying harder and harder. Geogre Carlin was right that our leaders suck because we as a nation all suck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
China is the World Series. We're still in the playoffs.
Look for Iran to come up to bat soon swinging a pencil while we have Nolan Ryan huck torpedoes at 103mph.
China is shooting back. Lets face it, the China and US relationship was completely dysfunctional. It's gonna be a messy divorce.
*0354 GMT [Dow Jones] A markedly higher fixing of the USD/CNY reference rate represents the largest one-day weakening of the yuan since November 2010, and suggests Beijing used the fixing to communicate its displeasure over U.S. Senate approval of a bill to pressure China to let the yuan rise, says Standard Chartered Bank currency analyst Eddie Cheung. He says the bank's model predicted a very slight weakening of the yuan for Wednesday, mostly based on a strengthening in the dollar index the previous day. Instead the USD/CNY fixing jumped by 0.18%, to 6.3598.
This is very stupid for a minimum of five very good reasons:
1. You don't slap your trading partner in the face ... especially one who has a shamed-based culture
2. They hold a trillion or so of our debt and are probably just looking for a reason to dump it or are in the process of dumping it and felt that you don't slap your trading partner in the face
3. It won't do diddly about recouping American jobs
4. It won't do any good for anything
5. The US is manipulating its currency along with every other western country, maybe more
"Nightmare on Chinese Elm Street" ... TPTB are so, so very stupid
Or its all parlour games for the proles: they tirrrkk errrr JERRRBBSS!!
Asia more so China are the biggest market manipulators you could ever wish for, mostly FX, but also stocks, economic stats...everything and they also admit they do it. So this bill passing was bound to happen. The Chinese have a major headache brewing in China i.e meltdown. The US is looking after it's own interests, so calling the Chinese manipulators shouldn't be a shock. If the Chinese are sensitive, that is too bad. They are quite childish what they did last few hrs messing around with the CNY after the bill was passed. China also bought a ton of bank stocks last few days which caused Asia to go bid. They also threatened hedge funds blah blah blah.
F*ck em, that's the markets, take it or go back to being full blown commies.
Sounds to me like we are peeing in the bed to try to stay warm.
One has to admire the restraint that the Chinese leadership displays in light of the realpolitik games being played. I mean all the bitching about the made-in-China crap (which btw includes iPods, iPhones, iPads, etc.) and they still keep the American "treasuries" ponzi scheme going by buying these worthless paper and USD. In a saner world, you'd think the Americans would kiss Chinese ass and be a bit grateful.
Zero Hedge analysis used to be good but lately it's pretty shitty. To see what's going on here ask yourself what's the one weakness in China's governance system that is particular to that system? The change of control between generations at regular interval. We have a change of control coming in 2012 so Hu doesn't want to start anything big and Xi is not in power yet and just like the neo-cons got us into Iraq some bunch of dildoes at some think tank somewhere have convinced this administration that this is a good "strategic" move. It's laughable but Obama is so in over his head and so clueless and in such electoral trouble that he is grasping at anything that sounds reasonable to his less than fully formed mind. Stupid policy. Totally counterproductive and so that's exactly what this political system will do.
www.silverrevolucion.com
More likely trouble with Pakistan, Iran or some other world risk game with armies scattered all over the place... Trade relations and the US calling the PRC "Currency Manipulators" is mask and cover for something else boiling over...Who knows...I don't even pretend anymore trying to figure out why these people threaten one another the way they do!!! You can bet it has broader implications though...Treasuries and the 'pseudo chinese peg' are only the visible potential bait
Bill Gross are you ready now? Bonds in the shitter!
as usual, we don't know what is going on with china. or the FED. or our children!
fuk em all!
L0L! maybe china sold some of their T bonds and won the twist contest? at any rate, the US is certainly acting like an imperial fuking asshole all over the place, eh?
This just all really stinks of 'alterior motives' and 'hidden agendas' to this simpleton!!! Personally, I believe most of the US populace understand that manufacturing (exporting jobs etc..) is not coming back anytime soon...There's something more at work here and with all of this Iran-Contra-Mexico-Saudi-Israel and the "Argentinian" stuff just blows any sort of rational analysis to smithereens!!!
Love to see this Bill becomes law. I don't want to see my homeland being polluted so much. China should not depend so much on selling to US. 60% of products are made by US companies any way.
China can truely be independant by getting of this stupid trade.
crash China, attack Iran. seems legit..
crash China, attack Iran. seems legit..
China keeping it real, major meltup via China's manipulation fund (gov wealth fund/s)
http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/000002?countryCode=CN
it's all bank stocks. Very bearish signal.
Key Analysis from Intermarket
http://capital3x.com/trades/intermarket-trends-and-insights-did-the-risk...
No shit Sherlock.
Is anyone surprised that China will retaliate. They couldn't give a toss what some bunch of fuckin' lame ass representatives in the US think. The US stance is blatantly confrontational as with Iran, no wonder the US is hated worldwide. Which is sad because the American people I know and have met are wonderful, friendly, caring and clever. This shit is far from representative.
Still it speeds up the inevitable. Which is the only positive I can glean from this.
I'm glad to see this article at the top in place of that stupid rambling Faber nonsense. This is way the hell more important.
But it's all very simple. China reduces Treasury purchases, increases commodity purchases.
Reducing Treasury purchases violates "gentlemen's agreement". US retaliates imposing tariffs.
Nothing new here. It's how trade wars typically start ...followed by shooting wars usually.
And please, save the macho "we'll bury 'em" rhetoric. You're merely revealing your macho ignorance. China can do a great deal of damage to America. That war would have no victor. It's mutually assured destruction.
China, you have drawn the lucky 6 card. Now take your 2 trillion hit and let the USA move on, please. This shouldn't surprise anyone, as the USA's foreign policy has been failure after failure after failure, because deep down Americans just want to be left alone, all safe and snug on their continental American island.
What with this and the current deliberate debasing of Europe's credibility by the USA, it's pretty darned obvious what's going on.
Eventually it will be a case of "you wanna fight about it, then show us your military hardware to back it up". USA is beginning to play real hard ball to keep the Dollar's status. That is, they're rattled.
And in response, China depreciates the Yuan (opposite of what US wants) 300 pips. I love it, it's like they are trolling each other.
Perhaps Congress passed the bill for the Chinese government to pin the blame of an imminent bubble collapse on the US government. Deflecting blame to an exterior party is what some governments neeed to give the perception that they're protecting their people. There's always been a legitimate concern in Beijing and Washington of political strife in China. If the China Bubble pops, better to let the Chinese people think the US popped it more than the Chinese government created inflated it.
The US government needs China to be stable right now. People in the know realize this. They know that the global supply chain is too delicate at this point to support the current level of consumption throughout the world. Financial bubbles can pop and the world will go on. But regime uncertainty throws a major kink in the flows of goods around the world.
This comment section is proof enough of why we need a global catastrophe to end the human species: I haven't seen this much retardation from a blog's comment section since infowars.
the ZH trading community has two normalcy biases : hate everything that makes their wallets smaller, hate everything that smells of 'liberal' leanings that want to 'over regulate' their nirvana world.
Fair enough. But when push comes to shove, the knee jerk here often sends logic and ethics down the shute as emotions go tribal. Now that is an evidence of BK's superb pitch on 'pathological bias' amongst traders, as victims of professional 'win ugly' addiction syndrome. Bull in a china shop rage expressed on a virtual blog is an amusing distortion of perverse human reality.
...the Great Wal Mart of China
Vote 2 Party Yahoo
Suicide
To Hell with you ...boys
To Hell with your corrupt dusty ass...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAqnGbnnRBU&feature=related
Whom the Gods wish to destroy they first drive mad by inculcating in them... hubristic rage and protectionist play...
This thread is a NICE follow on to the Marc FAber thread. Showing the logical sequence of cause and effect in what is now the inevitable Oligarchical stand-off.
We are heading into Niagara Falls territory. Where is Marilyn...? One last kiss on Maid of the Mist.
Just an example of protectionist and tariff wars now in perspective world-wide :
The World's Biggest Rice Exporter Is About To Take A Huge Riskhttp://www.businessinsider.com/thailand-new-rice-policy-2011-10
NWO for the good of all people rise up the living standards across the world while some have to suffer a drop ..
sick idea take from John Q and give to Wei su..
destroy nationalism so the people getting raped do not fight back
Tariffs Tariffs the word no economist will utter.
bleeding America slowly ever so slowly
Gold bitchez!
Treasurys? Shouldn't that be "Treasuries"?