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China Imports More Gold From Hong Kong In Five Months Than All Of UK's Combined Gold Holdings

Tyler Durden's picture




 

There are those who say gold may go to $10,000 or to $0, or somewhere in between; in a different universe, they would be the people furiously staring at the trees. For a quick look at the forest, we suggest readers have a glance at the chart below. It shows that just in the first five months of 2012 alone, China has imported more gold, a total of 315 tons, than all the official gold holdings of the UK, at 310.3 according to the WGC/IMF (a country which infamously sold 400 tons of gold by Gordon Brown at ~$275/ounce).

As for the UK (from the WGC):

From Bloomberg:

In May, imports by China from Hong Kong jumped sixfold to 75,635.7 kilograms (75.6 metric tons) from a year earlier, Hong Kong government data showed. The nation “remains the most important player on the global gold market,” Commerzbank AG said in a report. The dollar fell from a five-week high against a basket of currencies, boosting the appeal of the metal as an alternative investment.

 

“Higher physical demand in China is good news for the market,” Sterling Smith, a commodity analyst at Citigroup Inc.’s institutional client group in Chicago, said in a telephone interview. “The mildly weak dollar is also positive.”

 

The World Gold Council has forecast that China will top India this year as the world’s largest consumer because rising incomes will bolster demand.

And those looking at the trees will still intone "but, but, gold is under $1,600" - yes it is. And count your lucky stars. Because while all of the above is happening, Iran and Turkey have quietly started unwinding the petrodollar hegemony. From the FT:

According to data released by the Turkish Statistical Institute (TurkStat), Turkey’s trade with Iran in May rose a whopping 513.2 per cent to hit $1.7bn. Of this, gold exports to its eastern neighbour accounted for the bulk of the increase. Nearly $1.4bn worth of gold was exported to Iran, accounting for 84 per cent of Turkey’s trade with the country.

 

So what’s going on?

 

In a nutshell – sanctions and oil.

 

With Tehran struggling to repatriate the hard currency it earns from crude oil exports – its main foreign currency earner and the economic lifeblood of the country - Iran has began accepting alternative means of payments – including gold, renminbi and rupees, for oil in an attempt to skirt international sanctions and pay for its  soaring food costs.

 

“Iran is very keen to increase the share of gold in its total reserves,” says Gokhan Aksu, vice chairman of Istanbul Gold Refinery, one of Turkey’s biggest gold firms. “You can always transfer gold into cash without losing value.”

 

Turkey’s gold exports to Iran are part of the picture. As TurkStat itself noted, the gold exports were for “non-monetary purpose exportation”. Translation: they were sent in place of dollars for oil.

 

Iran furnishes about 40 percent of Turkey’s oil, making it the largest single supplier, according to Turkey’s energy ministry. While Turkey has sharply reduced its oil imports from Iran as a result of pressure from the US and the EU, it is unlikely to cut this to zero. The country pays about $6 a barrel less for Iranian oil than Brent crude, according to a recent Goldman Sachs report.

 

According to Ugur Gurses, an economic and financial columnist for the Turkish daily Radikal, Turkey exported 58 tonnes of gold to Iran between March and May this year alone.

And here is the punchline: if Iran is getting gold in exchange for products, that means that someone else is demanding Iran's gold in exchange for other products. But we won't read about it until those "others" decide to issue a press release.

In other words, the anti-dollar trade is now alive and well, and Iran has been happily transacting in a dollar-free vacuum since the March SWIFT embargo. Most likely "buyers" of Iran's gold? The usual suspects of course: China, Russia, (both of whom recently established bilateral trade relations with the country just for that purpose, here and here) and India.

So: is gold fairly valued at $1,000, at $1,600 or at $10,000... Or is that question even relevant any more as the part of the world that is not broke is quietly shifting to its as its default currency?

 

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Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:31 | 2602953 walidsassia
walidsassia's picture

and gold is dropping ???

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:36 | 2602979 Quintus
Quintus's picture

When there is 100x more paper fantasy gold being traded (but never physically delivered) than real gold, the price has pretty much nothing to do with physical supply and demand.

The Wall St. and LBMA banks can play their games and set any price they want (A bit like Libor, really) with little or no regard to whether there is any actual metal out there to buy or sell.

Isn't systemic fraud wonderful?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:43 | 2602992 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

I love Golden Chinese Turkey's!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:05 | 2603123 Precious
Precious's picture

During the opium wars, China told Britain, you're only borrowing this gold, okay?  We'll be back for it once we come down.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:25 | 2603218 zaphod
zaphod's picture

I don't know what everyone is complaining about, the UK's currency is the only one is call the "pound" this obviously means it is backed by something that has real value.

That fact that the central bank with the currency called the "pound" has relatively zero gold/GDP is nothing to pay attention to.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:43 | 2603272 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

British currency notes used to be denoted as 'pound sterling' for the nations creditors.

Pretty soon it will be just be 'pound salt'.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:49 | 2603308 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

"pound" = go pound sand...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:10 | 2603391 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Salt hurts more... no questions please... just trust me.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 17:43 | 2603675 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

KILL BILL 2?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:30 | 2604735 Atlas Shrugged
Atlas Shrugged's picture

I'm in China right now and EVERY BANK sells gold. They always have it displayed in glass cabinets in the corner. They each have around 2 kg on display (on average) and I've been told they have a lot more 'out back'. I make it a habit of asking how popular gold is to customers and the managers confirm that a lot of people are buying.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:07 | 2603382 ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

pound of flesh

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:20 | 2603427 Black Forest
Black Forest's picture

Ned Naylor-Leyland on CNBC: “Gold May Have Been Manipulated Like Libor”:

http://maxkeiser.com/2012/07/09/ned-naylor-leyland-cnbc-gold-may-have-be...

 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:44 | 2603003 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Fantasy Gold: I like it! I can almost hear midget tranny porn yelling "Da paper, da paper" and ringing the bell.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:56 | 2603071 Shocker
Shocker's picture

Those are some pretty insane figures/charts above. So is China importing Gold because of economic / currency problems ahead?

So much going on, in every part of the economy Local and Global.

http://www.dailyjobcuts.com

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:06 | 2603131 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Our currency or theirs?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:11 | 2603147 Shocker
Shocker's picture

Not a clue, just import gold has to mean something like that correct?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:18 | 2603174 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It was a poor joke...  but, I think it's more of a symptom than preparedness...  I guess everyone could just focus on one particular bubble with the cheap money, but I think the money tends to be distributed a bit better.  In the end, there are carrying costs for jumping on the commodity train...  e.g. deteriorating ghost towns.

Think of it kind of like brewster's millions...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:29 | 2603234 ATM
ATM's picture

They're buying gold because what else are they going to do. buy more USTs at 1.5% yield? Buy euros, pounds, or the Swiss?

They're buying gold because they have to. They can only load up on so many resources at one time and gold is the best liquid investment they can make.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:57 | 2603343 AmCockerSpaniel
AmCockerSpaniel's picture

And why did the chicken cross the road?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:27 | 2603453 youngman
youngman's picture

I would add because the WANT to...who would want anymore paper when you see what is coming...it seems though they have picked up the pace quite a bit...so when will the Comex fail....not be able to deliver and metal....and London too....the sale of the London exchange stinks....and there has been very very little dealer movement in the Comex...when does the paper market fail....or will it ever since its just a day trade..

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:12 | 2603976 Jungle Jim
Jungle Jim's picture

"...so when will the Comex fail....not be able to deliver and metal....and London too....the sale of the London exchange stinks....and there has been very very little dealer movement in the Comex...when does the paper market fail....or will it ever since its just a day trade...?"

Yes, when. That's exactly what I'd like to know. It can't happen soon enough for me. I've grown old and lame waiting.

I and I alone know where a fair amount of gold and silver is buried. (There is no map.)

It would be nice if it were suddenly "worth" what it's really worth once again. Right now it's just some stuff under a few feet of dirt and gravel in a lonely place. In a way it's not even worth its weight in paper fiat currency now. I mean, a $100 bill weighs one gram. One gram of gold is only "worth" about $50 now.

 I don't even know what silver goes for per gram. Not much. Hardly worth the trouble and risk of digging up.

Jim

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:48 | 2604087 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

For an ounce of gold I can get a good AR and 2000rds of ammo.

With a good AR and 2000rds of ammo I can protect or acquire alot of ounces of gold.

Just sayin........

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:56 | 2604213 Jungle Jim
Jungle Jim's picture

I already had two (2) ARs (and a number of other rifles and shotguns and handguns, and I don't honestly know how many magazines or how much ammunition, plus various accessories, as well as ballistic helmets, body armor, etc., and also some non-perishable food) before I ever bought my first Mercury dime or my first tenth of an ounce of gold.

The big thing I lack is real estate, especially a place that's both defensible and self-sufficient. I was rather hoping that if gold and silver broke free of the price suppression scheme they might enable me to finally buy a good place. For now I can only dream on. 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:58 | 2603345 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

Call me out if you like just don't whine about prices like the rest of the goldbugs on here do when it crashes.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:47 | 2603019 metastar
metastar's picture

The gold game will continue until ...

   THERE IS A RUN ON THE CENTRAL BANKS BY CENTRAL BANKS.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:15 | 2603159 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Who got Greece's gold?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:13 | 2603405 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Who else? JP Morgan....

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:31 | 2603465 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

Or Libya's ..?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 18:32 | 2603730 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

or the tons of gold in the twin towers that vaporized

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:52 | 2603041 knukles
knukles's picture

These fraudsters and manipulators should get caught, tried (as in guilty, heretics) and sentenced in an Islamic court.

Oh, BTW, was that metric about the UK's gold pre or post Brown's sale?
Helluvajob, Brownie

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:57 | 2603074 goldm3mb3r
goldm3mb3r's picture

Thanks Gordo, you total penis.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:59 | 2603091 spentCartridge
spentCartridge's picture

That miserable Scottish son of a bitch should be castrated and thrown into the Firth of Forth on a cold day.

 

... with the rest of his psychopathic family.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:58 | 2603350 PoorByChoice
PoorByChoice's picture

I wish posters on this site would stop using the words Gordon and GOLD together.

Your not doing my angina any good at all folks!

 

Wouldn't mind but I never voted for these psychopathic morons and still have to suffer their stupidity.

I'd join in the chorus re drowning in the firth but I have to answer the door now

 oh!

no need, the nice pleecemen have simply kicked it off it's hinges....

Oh Jerusalem

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 21:43 | 2604385 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

I have that Compact Disc. 'Gordon's Gold'.  OH!  Sorry, PBC!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:52 | 2603044 diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

this is really the fundamental fraud problem

 

whether we are talking about money, securities or any other asset class today, it is the fundamentals debasement, through instruments, programs, and outright chicanery that should concern us most.

 

all other arguments devolve on shit like paper/digital vs physical

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:54 | 2603057 jazze
jazze's picture

People who are buying paper fantasy gold do not want real physical gold, they want paper fantasy gold exposure. These guys are not demand for physical gold. If they wanted physical gold, the price would rise.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:01 | 2603098 moskov
moskov's picture

could you tell me why your avatar is a Chinese flag on a German Flag? what's that representing for?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:15 | 2603155 Manthong
Manthong's picture

a symbol of all the German manufacturing (and expertise)  that is now in and owned by China?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:17 | 2603167 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

I dunno, but there's sure a hell of alot of those little yellow guys running around in Frankfurt.  I can'y spit out my 6th floor window without hitting one on the sidewalk below.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:24 | 2603205 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Oh Really?

It's the Steel or Property they must be after.

Steel would be my guess, if getting ready for war... that Krupp will come in REAL handy.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:52 | 2603314 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

They're just there for the 'Love Parade'...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:33 | 2603253 OhOh
OhOh's picture

BRICS + GERMANY = Strength

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:04 | 2603121 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

The fact that paper gold can depress the price of physical is a given - what baffles me is that the premiums over spot for physical are not climbing.  One would think that in a supposedly tight market for deliverable metal we'd see a decoupling from the paper price signaled by dramatically increasing premiums. . .

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:25 | 2603215 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

It aint tight yet.

The only time gets tight is when the Bullion Sources put "Limited stock" or ration the physical.

Then everyone buys hand over fist.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:38 | 2603267 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

That's the only explanation that makes sense.  Even if one believes the published numbers regarding world-wide gold stock-piling (I assume that stealth accumulation is rampant as well) one has to think that we'll reach that point of tightening sometime in the very near future. .

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:59 | 2603354 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

Gold premiums aren't rising, but silver eagle premiums are up 25% from 1 year ago

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 21:00 | 2604239 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

The Premiums stayed the same at my vendor, however the delivery prices charged jumped three to 4 times what it was before.

It's easier to get it off the bay with free delivery and cheaper too if you are careful.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:25 | 2603210 MunX
MunX's picture

But banks leveraged 100 to 1 allow them more access to capitol to give loans to students and stuff. Bankers are our friends.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:47 | 2603298 Stuart
Stuart's picture

It's the mining companies that are the greater fools.   They have to be a special bread of patsies to go along with the comex price, london price or the spot price anywhere.   They're like sheep.  Why don't they just stand up for their industry and refuse to sell at these prices.   Above basic cashflow reqmnts, don't sell any gold at this price, just stockpile it.   More need to do this.   

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:19 | 2603422 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Miners who finance through debt are almost always forced to hedge or sell production forward. ABX took it a step beyond that in the 90s or early 00's and essentially became more of a hedge fund, as Fekete called it.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:21 | 2603432 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture

banks and shareholders discourage witholding product...short term thinking unquestionably.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 17:57 | 2603702 FranSix
FranSix's picture

All mining companies have certain amounts of inventory at any given time.  But to expect that they somehow award themselves better by stockpiling all production is totally unrealistic.  

Stockpiling occurs at the banking or savings level, not at the production level.  Gold is made to be stockpiled as an asset and leased out in quantity, only to be bought back almost immediately.  

Physical gold brought to market introduces arbitrage risk, meaning people will leverage futures to buy gold.  Prices then rise.  When there is little gold in actual production supply, then prices actually decline as the sheer volume of short selling trades expect no takers in demand.  Miners are doing correctly by supplying the market with physical gold, and can only expect a premium when aggressively marketing their gold to interested parties.

By comparison, copper or oil stockpiliing is patently insane.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:23 | 2603438 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

+100 It's as though the mining companies have the ability to find gold (at least the better ones do) but don't have any fucking clue about the value of the stuff they're digging out of the ground.  Honestly, given the rampant stupidity of the executives and boards running these companies, they deserve the shit-kicking the market is giving them.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 17:42 | 2603674 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Quintus, that was the comment of the week.

All the systems rely on trust. We are in deep

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:37 | 2602982 ciscokid
ciscokid's picture

Paper gold is dropping.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:45 | 2603015 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Gold PRICES......per ounce....are dropping, *$%^@#(&.

Big BUYING should raise prices, it isn't, how come ???

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:50 | 2603035 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

Yes - and there are at least 100 ozs of paper gold claims for every 1 oz of physical gold. So the paper gold price can go up and down like a groom's dick until a real market price is established for the physical.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 17:46 | 2603680 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

a 60 year old groom....on Viagra

until the medics are called

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 21:01 | 2604242 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

The words "Drop your drawers so we can remove the blood from your member by a large needle at the base..."

If that does not "lower the flag" then you are really in trouble.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:45 | 2603014 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Yes, gold is dropping and one day it will fall on the heads and toes of those who are fighting it.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:59 | 2603086 resurger
resurger's picture

but Paul Krugman told me "why would he buys gold at top's?!"

 

"

Do I believe that gold and silver make for valuable investments?  Well, they are used in technological devices, but why not buy apple if you want technology?  Or a HC stock.  Then you get opportunity for growth AND yield.  Gold is too speculative an investment.  Besides, it is at a high, why would I buy a top?

The dollar has become stronger, and although that isn't helping our exports, it isn't a bad thing short term.  Over the long run we should create growth by increasing exports.  In due time, we will."

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greek-psi-terms-leaked-imply-greek-redefau...


Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:41 | 2603280 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

$275 / oz was an all time high, by the way...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:58 | 2603349 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Anyone believeing the Gold holdings as shown for China is in the Twilight Zone.

They likely have as much as we do, maybe more.

They keep their REAL info close to the vest. They are going to spring the Yuan, backed by gold,or partially hide n watch.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:26 | 2603449 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Just remember that outside of this forum it's considered bad form to suggest that the Chinese are in any way aware of the massive US debt and deficit, are not in any way planning to exploit their growing power in the world, and are content to be America's lackeys forever, sacrificing their own standard of living so they can trade cheap manufactured goods for paper.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 17:48 | 2603691 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Move over english.... "Press 1 for Chinese"

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 21:02 | 2604243 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Press 2 for non Chinese.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 09:45 | 2609652 thefedisscam
thefedisscam's picture

That is WHY China bougth MORE!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:33 | 2602956 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

West spends money killing people

East saves money and buys gold.

And we think they are the commies...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:43 | 2603287 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

False comparison. West and East are identical in their greed, depravity, destruction, immorality, etc. Both excel at crime in their own ways.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:34 | 2602962 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

When all is said and done, only gold & silver remain as safe haven.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:54 | 2603037 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

And the funny thing is that Chinese purchases of gold count as imports when in actual fact they are exporting paper dollars in return for real money. That's how screwed up our understanding is. The bottom line is that once you include gold holdings of China in their forex holdings it will become apparent who is the smarter nation.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:34 | 2602965 fuu
fuu's picture

Good call Mr. Dabolina. Well played.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:02 | 2603110 MunX
MunX's picture

Bob wrote this?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:34 | 2602966 THECOMINGDEPRESSION
THECOMINGDEPRESSION's picture

The fraud just keep on spinning on GOLD/SILVER and now CARS!

Fail: Government Motors Inflates Sales by Selling to...the Government

http://economicaldepression.blogspot.com

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:55 | 2603329 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Go panhandle somewhere else, maybe Vegas

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:34 | 2602967 FranSix
FranSix's picture

Canada, zero.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:40 | 2602991 bigwhiffa
bigwhiffa's picture

Check out the current stats from the Bank of Canada.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/international-reserves/

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:52 | 2603313 alfred b.
alfred b.'s picture

 

    ...but thank G-O-D for that 8k + of those SDRs...I was worried there for awhile...(sic)

 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 18:10 | 2603745 FranSix
FranSix's picture

If the Canadian central bank took all of its U.S. forex reserves and converted it to gold, then they would at least have made a good decision which might eventually show a surplus especially in the depths of the gold price correction here.  Buying approx. 700 tonnes and taking delivery to the mint is not totally out of the question, either.

I really wonder if policy wonks get it that on the heels of a housing bust, the central bank had better be prepared to bolster its assets to be able to serve as a lender of last resort.  I also wonder if they get it that the U.S. dollar is not the reliable foundation it used to be, or that if a monetary crisis occurs in the world, that the central bank will require a hefty balance weighted towards gold.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:35 | 2602968 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Gold is a mineral. That is all.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:40 | 2602987 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Now how long did it take you to come up with that one? Or did you cheat by looking up Wikipedia?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:45 | 2603012 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Fuck Wiki, if something is on the periodic table, Im fairly sure its an element.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:40 | 2602990 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Sure...and paper money is just wood fibre mixed with linen and with a pretty picture stamped on it.

What matters is what people BELIEVE it is.  

A good part of the world does not buy into the 'Barbarous Relic' propaganda put out by the Western moneycentres.

Neither do the western central banks, I suppose, given how much of the stuff they own and are still buying.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:49 | 2603030 ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

Pretty picture????  Name one..........Andrew Jackson????????

Now if they put Lauren Lyster on there...............

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:59 | 2603083 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

$ 2

 

Always liked that one..  Especially the backside.

 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:13 | 2603404 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Too bad Ron Paul isn't on the front side of that bill.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 17:24 | 2603615 fuu
fuu's picture

He'll be on something, look what they did to Andy.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:27 | 2603304 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture

is it possible china, russia, iran, india after trading in gold for a period of time may begin to back their currencies with a gold standard...how would TPTB attempt to curtail this?  would TPTB move then to control or head the return to it internationally rather than allow control to move to another sphere?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:00 | 2603356 Au Shucks
Au Shucks's picture

"What matters is what people BELIEVE it is."

 

Well, that is true for currencies and collectibles, but money is not a belief, but rather a definition.  The qualities inherent to gold and silver are what make them money, not that people believe they're money.  This said, people have been indoctrinated and mis-educated to where they confuse money with currency, but the irrefutable laws of the free market (which is still there, albeit dressed up like a french whore via our friendly governents and PTBs) dictate that money will always return to it's rightful value and place at the end of each fiat debt usary cycle.  We're at that point now... days/months much more probable than years.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 18:54 | 2603907 Jungle Jim
Jungle Jim's picture

"We're at that point now... days/months much more probable than years."

I hope you're right. I really do. I need something to change, fast.

Jim

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:03 | 2603366 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Neither do the western central banks, I suppose, given how much of the stuff they own and are still buying.

EXACTLY, you have to be stupid to not see WHAT the CB's are doing, and it is not hoarding currencies,or USD's.

 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:40 | 2603492 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

Make that ALL Central Banks..

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:42 | 2602997 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

And Gene is a vegetable. That is all.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:56 | 2603069 falak pema
falak pema's picture

lets split the difference : golden vegetable with a mineral taste.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:31 | 2603245 viahj
viahj's picture

squash?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:06 | 2603381 PoorByChoice
PoorByChoice's picture

No, it's elemental dear fellow.........

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:44 | 2603505 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

GeneMarchbanks.....

.........you are an Idiot.That is all.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 21:22 | 2604323 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

so is calcium....try living without it...you ass pimple fuck wad.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:35 | 2602970 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

The Chinese use the gold to make bullets and IR/heat shiels.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:57 | 2603338 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

They used to... But Scaramanga & Hi Fat are now dead...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:37 | 2602973 Debtless
Debtless's picture

The gold & silver beach balls will not stay suppressed underwater forever. Sooner or later, when the DXY has some real competition in it, the ball will jump out of the water like it did last summer. Keep pulling your phyz out of the system at these sale prices ladies.

Fucking criminals.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:38 | 2602983 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

Isn't one of the problems that most of the US gold was sent to the US from China for safekeeping pre-WWII?

The US gold is really Chinese gold and the Chinese are being allowed to buy it back with excess fiat Benji-Bucks.

And THEN they use is for IR shields on the space cruisers and deep bunkers.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:54 | 2603056 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Wow!

Ha Ha Ha !

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:59 | 2603092 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

No, the 8k tons is US gold, down from a peak of 20k tons that the US bled off during the massive expansion in spending during and after Vietnam, man on the moon, etc. Nixon closed the gold window to stop the bleeding, which would have seen the 8k tons become 0k tons pretty quickly.

If I am not mistaken, and I don't have a source handy, the FRBNY holds about 4k tons, a lot of which is the stuff you are talking about (European gold, etc). So, yes US bank vaults house a lot of foriegn gold (for good reason at the time), but the 8k tons does not include these holdings.

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:59 | 2603353 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

For all anyone knows... 50 years ago someone might have have loaded up a Saturn 5 rocket and uploaded the shit into an Earths orbit...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:15 | 2603412 PoorByChoice
PoorByChoice's picture

LOL!!

I can tell your not a rocket scientist fs....

The S5 was a mother of a rocket but you would need to light the heavens up like the 4th of frickin July to get that amount of GLD up there!

The scramble for re-entry material would be exciting tho, it's rainin GLD courtesy of NASA and the US taxpayer!

Bernanke copter eat your heart out LOL! 

 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 17:46 | 2603685 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

OK... PBC... (this is just 4 entertainment)... What's the PAYLOAD of a 'Saturn V'?...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:16 | 2604484 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Irrelevant if one used the entire USD Paper Money as fuel.

Me thinks cheaper too.

Even today that was quite a rocket.

But nothing like the Soviet Monsters that lifted half as much.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:38 | 2602984 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

A few weeks ago I read on this site that China was lying about everything.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:46 | 2603016 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

They most certainly are lying... about their official gold holdings, a number which has not been updated in years, and which when updated to reflect the reality, which is likely in the 3,000+ tons range, will cause quite a few to scratch their heads.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:56 | 2603068 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

It will cause some to get more agitated than just head scratching.  This is an obvious potential paradigm shift in global finance.  The reason the dollar was chosen to be the world-wide reserve currency was because the US had the world's largest gold reserves.  China is now clearly on a trajectory to change that, and is being pretty open about it.  At this pace they could overtake the US by ~2015 in terms of legitimate, historically proven capital reserves.

This has to be causing a real shitstorm in the back rooms of the Central Bankers, as it could culminate in their Guernseys running dry.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:58 | 2603082 Stuart
Stuart's picture

if gold becomes an open tool/weapon of a cold war, does that help gold bulls though?

 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:09 | 2603140 bigwhiffa
bigwhiffa's picture

I would argue that it would help gold bulls more then hinder them.

Remember the Golden Rule?

He who has all the gold makes all the rules.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:23 | 2603202 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

He who HOLDS the gold makes all the rules.

Fixed!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:16 | 2603161 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

in a relative sense it's great for gold bulls because if/when any realignment comes it will involve big devaluations in currencies relative to gold.

The downside could be that the gold bulls merely preserve their purchasing power rather than expanding it, but they will not suffer the enormous losses that are coming to people who do not own gold, silver, or land.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:10 | 2603145 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

This may very well be true. And I am scratching my head and not only because US Treasuries look far more safer than gold FOR NOW. 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:29 | 2603455 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

That's not a crazy thought process, I think the likely accurate thinking is controlled crash followed by another paperfest.  Controlled crash = +govt. bonds.  Paperfest = +everything in nominal terms (including govt. bonds if they are the conduit for the paperfest), but most strongly with gold priced in (insert fiat currency here).  

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 11:45 | 2610049 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

yes but only if they manage to save the current system, europe is not the end of this, if they ever get their shit together then the usa will be Goldamn sachs next target, labor and capital are transnational now.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:31 | 2603242 Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

Uh, and when was the last time we checked our's out?

 

BTW, thanks for all you do.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:52 | 2603530 AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

just weeks away from a full House vote on Ron Paul’s Audit the Fed bill (H.R. 459/S. 202), and I’m counting on your help.

This Thursday, July 12, Campaign for Liberty is holding an absolutely critical “Audit the Fed Moneybomb” to help turn up the heat on Congress to finally pass H.R. 459/S. 202.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:39 | 2603273 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

One thing I absolutely cannot get my masters in the future to understand is that in this time, just before the Collapse, China and the US are both lying about their gold reserves -- but in opposite directions.

I'm glad to have the 3000+ ton estimate for No Bullshit China.  I wish I could get a similar estimate for No Bullshit US.  Right now my own not-very-educated best guess is 0 tons and 0.000 ounces -- unless you count the negative couple thousand tons that the US was holding for Deutschland.

 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:55 | 2603536 Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

Hope it's not that bad but since we haven't verified in over 60 years, why on earth would the rest of the world believe us?  I keep saying that the curtain will someday open all the way, and then BOOM!  Government, getting nervous yet?  You better be!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 21:20 | 2604314 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

amrkn global military occupation bases.

helps with the "belief" systems. . . that and bribing those in control.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 18:17 | 2603766 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Exactly, everone forgets China is also the number one gold producer  and quit exporting a drop since 2008. Ive been keeping tabs and I figure they are getting close to 4000 tons. They are currently the number 2 holder of gold because Germany most likely ain't gettin theirs back. Thats if Tricky Dicky did not sell the gold to finance Vietnam. I would not want Fort Knox audited either. Remember those tungsten bars China bught from the good Ole USA?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 21:37 | 2603773 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

dp Sorry

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:48 | 2603025 tmosley
tmosley's picture

This is Hong Kong government data, not Chinese.  Yes, there is a difference.  No, that does not make it credible or not credible.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:40 | 2602989 FLHRS
FLHRS's picture

It will drop until it doesn't.  Then it will rise until it doesn't.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:18 | 2603172 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Do you have monthly market reports I can subscribe to?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:42 | 2602994 Stuart
Stuart's picture

Anybody take the time to think perhaps it's the Chinese that are suppressing the price of bullion and JPM et al are just acting as agents carrying out their marching orders... Sure, benefiting via their own prop trading but who has the biggest advantage to gain from keeping prices low, .... A DETERMINED and LARGE BUYER!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:51 | 2603042 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

See: Ted Butler

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:57 | 2603076 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Gold price held down.

Sovereigns buy gold.

Global return to a gold standard.

Gold price allowed to rise.

Currency worth more the higher gold price goes.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:27 | 2603228 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Au / Monetary Base = value/monetary unit.  Manipulating the valuation of gold upward with a stable monetary base makes no sense.  To increase $ value in terms of Au you need to reduce the supply of paper.

Of course the SBs will print to collapse, so it's really a moot point.  At that point Au will be the currency.  The real "valuation" for Au is more likely:  Above Ground Au stockpiles / World Population with some kind of constant correcting for standard of living/avg consumption.  This would give you a more workable trading value.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:39 | 2603270 viahj
viahj's picture

in booger's scenario, the $ will be replaced as will all other current fiats.  one world global currency is the plan, controlled by the BIS and initially and breifly linked to an asset basket of which gold will be the largest %.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:58 | 2603347 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

If Ponzi banking practices are retained in said "new" monetary system (fictional reserve banking, debt-based monetary creation, etc.) any use of paper as a real, one-to-one proxy for gold will be short-lived.  TPTB can try to reset this rigged market all they want but economies are ultimately bounded by supply, not demand - and you can't print supply.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:32 | 2603249 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

and the Fed Audit will reveal that it is driving aggregate demand for paper PM and playing exchange badmitton with JPM et al.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:46 | 2602996 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

If this pace merely levels off and China imports 650 tons, coupled with the >350 tons they are expected to produce internally, they will acquire more than 40% of the global output this year (~2500 tons).  This is where the real gauntlet is being thrown down.  The question is, how will the central bankers respond to this obvious challenge to their monetary authority?

 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:43 | 2602999 Alpo for Granny
Alpo for Granny's picture

In an unrelated note there was also a record amount of thread and fabric sold in China during those same 5 months.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:16 | 2603164 Shigure
Shigure's picture

Very subtle Alpo for Granny, nearly missed that one. Lol

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:43 | 2603000 toady
toady's picture

Now that is scary.

Every time I think I'm set someone ups their game. These bastards are not messing around!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:44 | 2603005 Jason T
Jason T's picture

some pictures of the next worlds financial center. http://vincentloy.wordpress.com/2009/04/19/the-process-to-final-design-o...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:54 | 2603055 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Pass the baton: 1807 - UK, 1907 - USA, 2007 - Asia

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:56 | 2603331 mt paul
mt paul's picture

pass the bacon ...

 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:44 | 2603007 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

U.S. reserves have been personally audited by Bob Pisani.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:55 | 2603060 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

"Geraldo" Piss on me

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:59 | 2603088 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

I saw that !

They were in a "blacked out" car, but someone as insignificant as the driver knew the location !!!

Too Funny.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:05 | 2603122 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

They made sure he was driving blindfolded.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:44 | 2603008 falak pema
falak pema's picture

either china is a goofy gold bug or china is the first to understand that the fiat shit storm is about to unfurl and the USD reserve has its days numbered all soaked in debt devaluation.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:47 | 2603017 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

Who is selling all this Gold to china and India? I didn't realize there was so much readily available for delivery. Can someone shine some light on this? Lastly, how much physical gold is left ?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:52 | 2603047 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

You might want to check what Jim Willie has to say about that. Not sure it is true what he says, but it seems to make sense, at least partially

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/jim-willie

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!