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"China Will Not Hesitate To Protect Iran Even With A Third World War"

Tyler Durden's picture


Fast forward to 2:08: "It is puzzling to some that Major General Zhang Zhaozhong, a professor from the Chinese National Defense University, said China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third World War... Professor Xia Ming: "Zhang Zhaozhong said that not hesitating to fight a third world war would be entirely for domestic political needs...." And don't forget Russia, which recently said it is preparing to retaliate against NATO and has put radar stations on combat alert: "Russia is another ally of Iran, with similar policy to that of China. Toward Iran." Watch, and please forward the entire video, for an explanation of how China is approaching the situation not only in Iran, but a perspective of how they view the western "threat", as well as what tensions they face domestically.

h/t Scrataliano


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Wed, 11/30/2011 - 22:39 | 1933603 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the same "south pacific" where all those nukes were tested over decades?  like tahiti, polynesia, etc? 

france was still bombing the "south pacific"  as recently as the mid-90's. . .

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:32 | 1932843 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

South America? Isn't that where folks like the Bush's and others have been buying up property? Gotta watch where the uber-rich are going and that's likely to be the safest spot.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 22:42 | 1933607 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

bush bought access to an aquifer.  a massive store of pure water.  ponder.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:08 | 1933123 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

In a concrete reinforced bunker about Mid America, no less than 500 miles West of the Mississippi but no further than Oklahoma / Colorado.

No less than 90 days of food and water, geo thermal HVAC and drill a well at least 30 feet for toilet use. Hydrogen generator all inclusive, you can find them online. You can run a small antenna for VHF signal to ground level and make sure your ventalation system has a 4 stage scrubber. Problem is, do you really want to live through a Thermo Nuke? What kinda of bug out warning do you think your going to get? Will your BFF and Family members be there on time before the door is locked? Finally, what would the scenery look like when you finally emerge? Stay top side and enjoy the show, SPF 200,000 sugested.

Playing cards, Medical kit, liquor, barter, guns, AM / FM with shortwave or HAM radio suggested, PM's and everything you would need to re introduce yourself to the new world once your supplies run out.

What would Jesus do? Lemmi hit him up on Facebook and ask.


Cons of surviving fallout:

Can't plant seeds. Can't eat the animals you may bag. Can't drink the water supply and NetFlix will most certainatly be down. Watch week by week how many teeth you loose as you gravel to a FEMA official begging for decontamination and a room in an internment camp.

Ooor, you can move to Switzerland if you have the $$$.



Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:33 | 1932523 BennyBoy
BennyBoy's picture

How dare China talk to us as if we owe them money!

How dare Iran legally build nukes!


Iran better establish a Goldman Sachs approved Central Bank and quick.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:49 | 1932577 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

I smell the makings of a "Humanitarian Mission".

Actually, that statement is their signal and will be their policy. It's China folk's, you know the ones that don't do well if we don't? We buy all their crap.. remember? 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:53 | 1932658 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

There was a newspaper article a few days ago describing how the Syrian's had killed something like 250 young girls.  Then there was the Syrian who shot people in Turkey today.  Once Syria's invaded, it's on with Iran.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 22:47 | 1933623 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

ah yes, snatching babies from incubators & murdering them!!! 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:42 | 1932591 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

I worry that someday the USA will have a giant payback from all the wrongdoing it does on behalf of it's puppet master.

Here are Fidels thoughts:

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:33 | 1932527 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

maybe the Chinese hacked MF Global accounts and thats where the money went

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:36 | 1932551 sabra1
sabra1's picture

at least they kill bankers!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:34 | 1932539 CH1
CH1's picture

We are hereby in deep shit.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:34 | 1932541 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

If you could kill 75% of the bacteria in a maxed-out petri dish without destroying the growth medium, you could observe exponential growth all over again. 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:35 | 1932543 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Lineup: former communists vs. neocons & theocons...sad choice

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:38 | 1932561 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

I hope the Russians love there children too.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:38 | 1932563 The Answer Is 42
The Answer Is 42's picture

OK, before hyperventilation kicks into screaming gear, this guy is a PROFESSOR in the defense univ. He's part of a small crew of people with military background -- mostly professors, but a few in non-combat services closer to the real military -- that are allowed to speak in public. He's an intriguing figure. He's a loose canon, with some shit widely discredited. But his public appearances are obviously ok'd by the higher-ups, and he's shown no embarrassment whatsoever for his widely discredited shit. A common assumption is that he's part of a misinformation campaign. Regardless, he's anything but an official mouthpiece. He might be used as a conduit for some test balloon, but nothing more.

And, no, China willl not fight a war with US over Iran, no mor ethan US fighting a war with China over Taiwan. Its weight is drastically different on the scales of China and US.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:50 | 1932645 SamAdams1234
SamAdams1234's picture

Wait until the retail season is over and black friday sales are all tabulated. Add some inflation and an unemployed  population with empty buildings. Sounds like a recipe for some Keynesian warfare. 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:39 | 1932572 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

“Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.”

-Sun Tzo

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:42 | 1932594 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:39 | 1932575 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Keynesian bull!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:41 | 1932586 chinaboy
chinaboy's picture

At most it is a lunatic general making crazy statement. It does not reflect policy or anything.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:50 | 1932644 JoBob
JoBob's picture

Ummm... I don't think they let generals make public statements which have not been vetted. The statement may not be policy but it serves a purpose or it would not have been made. Even in China, you don't make General by mouthing off.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:33 | 1932848 Coronal Mass Ej...
Coronal Mass Ejaculation's picture

We'll find out soon enough if he statement was "vetted out" by how much longer he lives...or if he has a mysterious accident causing death...

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:43 | 1932600 Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

If the US is isolating China, then why have we made them so wealthy by buing up all of their garbage?  Please spare me.  Who gave this ass-hat a degree, anyway?


On the more serious side, it seems as if the whole Iron Mountain thing isn't working out, so we're going to have to go back to the ol' war routine.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:44 | 1932609 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

How about China attacks us by dumping 500 billion in treasuries? Maybe a trillion....

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:13 | 1932977 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Buy gold and silver with that money and destroy the Morgue.  Besides, Western central bankers view gold and silver as a threat to their fiat.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:45 | 1932613 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

I know I know they would be blowing themselves up if they did that....whatever. Bullshit

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:46 | 1932621 FranSix
FranSix's picture

Interesting backgrounder, goes wa-a-a-y back:

This is one of the so-called secrets of WWII, and remained out of public notice for a considerable amount of time.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:49 | 1932639 terryfuckwit
terryfuckwit's picture

not to worry usa chief of staff Benjamin will take a balanced and rational view before making his final decision

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:51 | 1932651 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

The survivors can be sent to Japan to adapt to post nuclear war living under prehistoric conditions with hand tools.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:58 | 1932678 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture




"Students uncover massive Chinese arsenal

College undergrads discover info on a huge network of tunnels containing nuclear missiles.


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 17:58 | 1932688 lolmao500
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Russia is considering the use of bases in Cuba for its nuclear bombers, in a move that revives memories of the 1962 Cuban missile crisis, according to reports in a Russian newspaper. Russian military sources said that Moscow is contemplating using Cuba as a refuelling base for its nuclear-bomb carrying aircraft. The move would be in retaliation for the Bush administration's plan to site a missile defence shield in Europe.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:00 | 1932696 Oxygen
Oxygen's picture

Hey ! Did somebody notice this news ??!!


Armed U.S. police officers will for the first time be allowed to operate in Canada

Global civil unrest ?


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:09 | 1932736 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Yes, and where were you when Bush signed an agreement with Canada that will allow the Canadians,and American Troops the right to pass back and forth in the  same scenarios........................Is there any REAL difference in the Governments?.

Canada, and Mexico owe YOU & ME, a lot of billlions in taxes over the years for fotting their military defense bills.

Because they have had a free ride.(on our shoulders).

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:01 | 1933335 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

This is also part of the treasonous North American Treaty signed by Bush in 2005 along with the presidents of Canada and Mexico in Texas.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:02 | 1932708 Garbo
Garbo's picture

I live near the airport here in St. Croix U.S.V.I. and all day today lots of C130 Military cargo planes landed.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:12 | 1932748 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Hugo's gold is in route.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:35 | 1932859 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Post-apocalyptic rum shipments

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:53 | 1933121 knukles
knukles's picture

Look, if MF Global shit can go unheeded, I all but guaranty that Hugo's getting salted tungsten bars with less than a micron of gold plating.

So when he bitches about the world not having any fucking gold, TPTB will just say:
- we'll look into it
- appoint Louis Freeh and Hank Paulson to head the investigation who shall deligate the work to 3 blind, deaf and dumb quadraplegics who shall mysteriously die in the Neveda desert upon completion of the results which disappear having been erased by Rose Mary Woods
- will say, oh no, Hugo.  It's youse gots no gold.  We's gots all of ours.


It's all Horseshit


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:02 | 1932710 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I find it most difficult knowing the Chinese penchant,saying they ARE willing to go to a 3rd WW, over IRAN.

WE know, it will not be conventional at some point, someone is going to take out the BIG blasters.

If they are willing to do it,  then Israel must unilaterally GO it alone, and rid Iran ASAP of their Nuke development progs.

 I find it VERY difficult to believe China & Russia are so stupid to attack Israel over Iran.(given the threats made daily on their intent to destroy Israel.

If they are, color someone an idiot.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 23:55 | 1933810 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Persia's got oil, and is geopolitically pivotal: it borders the Caspian and the Persian Gulf.

Israel has a nice spot on the Mediterranean, and most apocalyptic doomsday cultists think it's a holy spot.

This is guna be fun.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:04 | 1932718 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

this doesnt deserve prominent site placement, its something in the order of a vague rumour

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:05 | 1932720 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

It was only a matter of time before some kind of card showing would come from China. I would like to have a better understanding how this would fit into any future strategy against the Anglo-Saxon axis since their $1 trillion holdings should make for an awkward conversation.

As for Russia, it seems that they need to show some face now that their naval base in Tartus, Syria, is under threat by NATO, which puts their plans for transferring their Black Sea fleet and re-establishing their pre Soviet Union Mediterranean navy presence, under serious threat, especially after Assad agreed to convert the port into a permanent Middle East base for Russia’s nuclear-armed warships, with Russia's money of course.

I think that's also the reason that the US foreign policy granted so much authority to Turkey, which I'm guessing that they hope it will somehow align all the "Arab Spring" renewed governments under a controlled proxy, which will in turn be controlled by US money, something which I see as nothing but a pipe dream.

Again, that's they reason that Russia is trying so hard to gain some presence in the Mediterranean, by acquiring two gas fields in Cyprus' offshore acreage, along with its continuous and substantial investment in the area, but also with the support it shows to Greece, vis-a-vis proposals for strategic defensive alliance, now that Greece is shunned as the convenient scapegoat by the European axis. Not a completely far fetched scenario after seeing how the Greek and Russian marines were marching together during Greece's "OXI" parade, after the Russian landing craft Tsesar Kunikof, dropped anchor in the port of Alexandroupolis.

I don't know if the reason that Iran's all but imminent attack rhetoric by Israel is just a reason for the US to corner Russian dominance and diminish its influence around what's left of its former Soviet satellites, along with gaining control of the areas natural resources, or because the Anglo-Saxon banking cartel wants to take over the area's Islamic financial sector, as it would seem as a maiden or still untapped source of wealth growth generated by the massive emerging Muslim urbanity.

I can't tell for sure what's going on, since the intertwined oil and banking interests are becoming too complicated for my liking and I'd be interested in any analysis regarding SinoRussian alliances along with the forhcoming role of India and Pakistan or even Iran - Hezbollah. 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:05 | 1932722 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

It's all talk and saber rattling BS designed to scare you.  The Soviets used to do the same thing, then once the reporters left the room, break out the vodka and have a drink with you. You better believe they would not risk nuclear annihilation over some mullahs in Iran.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:06 | 1932724 maninthbx
maninthbx's picture


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:08 | 1932734 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

All depends on how the Banking Cartel wants to play this.

Use of nukes creates an environmental hazard that would hamper their lifestyle no matter where they live.

But the massive reduction of the world population and control of the ME Oil reserves is definitely on the To-Do List.

Wars can be fought without nukes.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:10 | 1932742 walcott
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:13 | 1932753 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Interesting. I do google search for info about china/iran and 2nd item on list is this zerohedge article. Under the heading is the ability to block all results. None of the other links offered the ability to be blocked..........odd.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:15 | 1932758 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

what a joke. time to ship warheads to japan and taiwan bitchez.


:cue the north korea fuknut:

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:35 | 1932861 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Some claim that Japan was manufacturing warheads at Fukushima already....

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:49 | 1932919 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

the usa mic has been spoiling for a fight all over the world lately. russia, pakistan, iran, afghanistan… so far nobody wants to give it a go. an all out nuclear-chemical-biological war would kill half the people on earth. the chinese, russian, etc., leadership have healthy cushy lives, an all-out war fcks that up big time. fear mongering and brinksmanship is just talk meant to distract the chinese, russian, whatever, peasants from the reality of their shitty lives. if i’m wrong, we’re all dead, either way I call bullshit.

When you have to shoot, shoot, don’t talk.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:38 | 1933084 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

And you're an idiot.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:56 | 1933317 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

No, "you" are an ididdiddiot!  You should have been watching movies like "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" instead of staring at all those male ballet dancers.  Geez!


Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:52 | 1933309 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture


"When you have to shoot, shoot, don’t talk." [/Tuco]

Thank you.  That was one of my favorite lines!


Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:38 | 1933082 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Then they're idiots.

Coolant pool is a problem that 40% of US nuclear facilities share. That's what you should be panicking about (oh, and the fact that Bec****, a private company are now in charge of ALL YOUR NUKES). Hint: About 8 months ago, I printed links to who was running your decomn / nuke stuff after the Bush apparatus stripped it from real hard working scientists. You're worrying about the wrong thing, and as such, are an asset to the twats in charge.


Go decontaminate and get a clue, and come back annoyed about where you're really being fucked.




Japan has never built a nuke, and never will.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 23:26 | 1933723 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

“There’s a great big beautiful tomorrow,
shining at the end of every day.”

take a trip on GE's Carousel of Progress. . .

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:15 | 1932761 onarga74
onarga74's picture

At least it won't be an armed conflict

Rule #1 in the Art of War...stop manufacturing all of your enemy's Ipads



Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:52 | 1932928 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Unless you can include some really interesting, uh, aps.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:18 | 1932778 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

Anyone ever read "On the beach"? Scary shit

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:18 | 1932780 Out9922
Out9922's picture

And check this out.  "The result of their effort? The largest body of public knowledge about thousands of miles of tunnels dug by the Second Artillery Corps, a secretive branch of the Chinese military in charge of protecting and deploying its ballistic missiles and nuclear warheads."

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:31 | 1932782 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Hmm, tinfoil time!

Limited Nuclear War will solve Global Warming by Charles Q. Choi (please note who owns Nat. Geo -- that was back in February).

Back to reality: Israel has circa 80 nukes (according to EU / IAEA), although there's been some interest in how those are held (i.e. it lacks the geographical space to seed them in classical MAD spread to prevent first strike removing them all - there's chatter that some are not held on Israeli territory as a precaution / retributive strike), India and Pakistan have similar numbers, in differing payloads and without ICBM platforms. The USA & Russia still clock up over 20k+ each. UK have about 200, China about 300 and so on.

Geopolitics: Russia is pissed off at NATO over the missile shield (yes, that NATO who took 6+ months to oust a dictator who didn't even use half the weapons we'd supplied him with); China is pissed off with / likes everyone in equal measures, India is pissed off at Pakistan (still asking about Mumbai), Pakistan is pissed off at India (because, just because), USA and Pakistan are pissed off at each other (lover scorned & all that jazz - Americans wondering why buying a whore doesn't buy loyalty), Israel is pissed off at everybody (oi, vey). Saudi & Bahrain are pissed at Egypt, NATO and Syria for ruining shit. Everyone in Dubai is pissed because the nice little racket is coming undone, and it'd be such a shame if that bastion of freedom, emotional well-being and decency that is a beacon to Capitalists everywhere got turned into glass. Syria is pissed off because no-one noticed (barring the first few weeks) that someone fucking RPG'd the president of Oman (or was it? God knows, some shitty little state down there without oil) and forced him out, and no-one has covered the story since the CIA team left for Syria, and his wife is REALLY not happy with a downgrade in shopping, and he's only killed as many people as the Saudis have (well... there's a difference between public shootings and "disappearances"). Oh, and Pakistan is supplying most of the hard-core troops to the ME arabs, which is a nice little earner, and let's not say any more about it please.

Oh, and Iran. Who doesn't have nukes. Not even an iddy-biddy little one. Most pertinent comment I've seen for a while: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is kept in power because the Americans & Western press know who he is, and report on him; if they didn't, he'd have disappeared long ago. i.e. He's only there being a crazy fool because he makes the West listen.

Oh, and Iraq? Still fucked, totally. Death toll is about 1,000,000 and no-one gives a shit because, you know, there's RISK to play.



Snark - to be honest. At this point, after 60 years of total bullshit from the region, wouldn't everyone just like some piece and quiet? For about... 2,000 years or so.


Oh, and our mysterious Chinese writer of holocaust global warming solutions:

Charles Quixote Choi. (Tilting at windmills, providing illumination to all). Poynter Institute: Nelson Poynter, the owner and chairman of the St. Petersburg Times and Times Publishing Company, announced that he planned to start a small journalism school called the Modern Media Institute. (The name of the school was changed to the Poynter Institute almost a decade later.). 

Get the snark?! He's an ethnically Chinese man paid by the Americans educated in a place that references the bastion of Russian Europeanism. Get it? China - USA - Russia... all in the same boat. Or as we used to say Oceania, Eurasia, Eastasia.



/off to get a brandy and cigar to enjoy the games that men play

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:43 | 1933268 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Why are you concerned with 1,000,000 Iraqui dead and in the same statement promote turning another sovereign nation into "glass".  Those particles of glass would be partially comprised of the DNA of small children and babies!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:06 | 1933346 nmewn
nmewn's picture


And a big greenie for shining a spotlight on that fuckstick Poynter.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:27 | 1932820 My Days Are Get...
My Days Are Getting Fewer's picture

This article is nonsense.

All political leaders just want to stay in power and get rich and not lose their heads.  Their well-connected friends want the same things.  Makes no difference where you live or what the slogans of the regime are.

The Pentagon and their contractors need justification for their programs and costs.  The sale of arms to foreign nations is a huge US export business.  We send them second or third generation technology, which requires us to develop better bombs and delivery systems.

Don't get distracted by all of this.  We have hot wars with lead.  We have cold wars via market and currency manipulation.  We have warfare by the government against the people.  Isn't financial fraud an instrument of war, to enrich the few and enslave the many.

Protect yourselves with zero debt and bullion and other means to insure the survial of your family.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:27 | 1932823 Cynthia
Cynthia's picture

Notice that nowhere in this clip does China mention Israel. Israel must be the elephant in the room over there as well.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:42 | 1932884 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Israel is so small, China wont even notice it in a hot shooting war.


They wont fight, if there is food, there is China. Simple enough.


Everyone seems to have forgotten that there are Chinese Food Places in every little city and town all across the USA, the usual pipeline for intergrating Chinese Immigrants from the old Country to the USA.

In time of war, that will be a valuable network indeed.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:01 | 1932957 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

I'd ask if you'd not noticed the massive inroads China has bought in places such as Africa for food security, but...


Keep plugging the theory that Chinese immigrants (you know, those hard toiling people who built the fucking west coast railroads, you tool) are the RED.. ER.. YELLOW.. ER.. RELLOW PEWIL.



/Clue. You missed it by a mile.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:37 | 1933245 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Sure, in time of war let's put all Chinese Americans in internment camps like we did Japanese Americans during WWII.  Wait, there is no way our treasonous government would ever do that again!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:34 | 1933234 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Yes, more likely China will make a run at Taiwan while the globalist's police force (U. S. military) is dropping humanitarian bombs on sovereign nations via "kinetic action" throughout MENA.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:31 | 1932840 Foul Ole Ron
Foul Ole Ron's picture

Did George Washington write this piece for ZH? China will not be starting WW3 over Iran. They will meddle in the whole thing for their own gain but actually go to war with the West? Get a grip.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:32 | 1932844 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

China just needs to wait for a G20 or a Bilderberg meeting and nuke it. Problem solved.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:07 | 1932982 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Problem is...

Oh, sigh. Why do I even bother?

UN security council seats. China has held a permanent seat since it got nukes. It is part of the club, you fucking pigmy.






Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:35 | 1932858 Duke of Con Dao
Duke of Con Dao's picture

this doesn't have much to do with China but I still get a kick of Rick Perry's denial

of the 26th Amendment.

... at mid point I drop some frames to make him lurch into the camera framing... effective, no? 


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:37 | 1932867 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

yeah it's all just bullshit talk and saber rattling...

right up until the missiles start flying and the bombs start dropping and the draft kicks in.

what do you suppose this NDAA bill is really meant for?

the sociopaths in charge don't value human life... at all, that should be apparent by now, but they do have an agenda and if millions, hundreds of millions or even billions of useless breeders die in the process of implementing that agenda, all the better from their point of view.

don't believe for a moment that the PTB's wouldn't kill us all in envisioning their Brave New World.

and war is a most effective tool for shaping the course of human events in the way one might desire...

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:44 | 1932898 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

The Draft will not save the USA. It takes 6 months to train civilians to green replacements and maybe a year before they have enough to hold in battle.


Besides half of fighting age will rebel and not obey the draft while the other half are physically unfit and mentally unable to make war.


China can snap fingers and every village can raise a Military ready to fight within days. The main problem is feeding and keeping a chain on such a force long enough to get them to the combat area.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:08 | 1932969 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Yes, and with the fourth largest American airline going into receivership this week:

How the fuck are you getting them there? Unicorns? Via Alaska? (Which requires invading Russia first, good luck with that one if you're wanting to avoid a nuke fest). Boats? (given the comparative strengths of navies) is one of those "Korea invades Japan" type deals.


Wish I could snap my fingers and give you 50 IQ points to at least reach the median amount in the US.



Go back to John Wayne films, your ignorance of modern geopolitics is shamefully adolescent.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:28 | 1933214 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Use of Weapons, you are obviously a smart fellow and have much to contribute, but being a pompous ass shaves many many points off your otherwise superior intellect.  Perhaps a personal exercise program would be a good thing for you?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:41 | 1933446 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture


My personal style and ethics has nothing to do with how I respond here:


My words are weapons. Interpret them accordingly.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 22:47 | 1933622 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

So, we are not seeing the real you here?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:37 | 1932870 yogibear
yogibear's picture

China has all of the US nuke weapon technology and more. Acquired during the Clinton presidency. They also have newer technology to wipe all the US carriers off the face of the ocean. The US is now dependent on China thanks to the politicians and corporations selling out technology to China. The US will and must back down if China becomes aggressive. End of story!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:46 | 1932906 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

It will take a loss of one carrier and 5000 aboard to cause the USA to scream bloody murder and charge.


Back in WW2, we lost dozens of Carriers and essentially learned to harden them by damage control methods and training against future losses.


China will learn that several Cities or even the Three Dragons Dam is not worth the price of sinking a Carrier.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:10 | 1932991 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

No, you didn't.


You lost five, you fucking tool.



Jesus wept.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:22 | 1933195 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

You mean to tell me that the Clinton Administration sold U. S. military technology to China in exchange for 1996 campaign cash!?  Next, you're gonna tell me that patriot John Glenn blocked a senate investigation of that treasonous act.  To quote a great president, patriot and former American now globalist, "how dare you!?"

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:21 | 1933400 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"You mean to tell me that the Clinton Administration sold U. S. military technology to China in exchange for 1996 campaign cash!?"

If I recall, Bubba transfered authority to share the technology in question from the Defense Department to the Commerce Department which then allowed Loral Space to sell it to the Chi-Coms. Then his Commerce Secretary (Ron Brown) had an "unfortunate accident".

Now the young'uns are up to speed ;-)

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 22:45 | 1933615 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Thank you sir.  Eventually Loral went belly up so maybe there is relevance to that Karma thing:)

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 23:02 | 1933660 nmewn
nmewn's picture

My compliments to you sir.

Or maybe, perhaps, Loral's purpose was served and no longer needed. Sometimes I think its a better use of our time (when reading the entrails of the beast) to just call it that...the guts...and be happy with its passing.

Ah well...take care.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:40 | 1932878 XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

So, if there is a war ... all debts will be written off without any defaults and the "financial crisis" will finally be over because we will have NEW money and start from scratch?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:42 | 1932885 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Yes the new currency will be radioactive tulips.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:41 | 1932882 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

The first indicator of real war will be com-satellites being struck.  


Tactical nukes will possibly then be used to destroy refining facilities to minimize war machines (on either/both sides).


Who would be more hurt by losing access to Oil - China or US? 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:48 | 1932916 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

If that happens, you can pretty much kiss anything riding on telestar good bye.


In the good old days we had towers across the land that will take over when space is filled with falling junk. But now even those have been retired.


Come to think of it. One telephone exchange at the right spot, taken out; will cause half the USA to fail to connect. The other half will simply pick up the phone at once to ask WTF and create a total failure nationwide.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:15 | 1933003 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture


Wrong. Strong hint: Fibre optic can carry phone calls. You know, that thing where you get broadband, and its a.... phone line connection. Or plain copper lines, with poles. Which still exist precisely to stop this possibility. It is called "redundancy within critical systems", you muppet.

You're doing an amazing show and tell tonight darling - post after post after post of unmitigated bullshit. At this point, I'm shooting fish in a barrel, but you're just so fucking hilarious, I keep on having to answer. You're like a moreish pistachio nut of the stupid.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:23 | 1933035 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Ah yes the old landlines.

Being ditched by millions of homes in favor of cheaper iphones.

We went fiber last month, no more copper. No power, no net or phone.


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:31 | 1933047 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Hmm, stupid one.

Explain how fibre optic.... being underground... precludes landline calls. Hint: it doesn't... it works like... a much better version of landlines, it being underground and not being metallic it is immune to EMP nukes. If you have fibre optic, you have a x1000 times as fast landline than any ancient copper phones. You also have piped internet access and so on.

Oh, and if your point is that "without power" we're fucked, then you don't know enough about access points: you can use optic to send a 911 without any power at all.


Hint: science. You need some educmacation.



Your IQ is making me feel bad for smashing the shit out of juvenile seals. Can you not at least attempt to make a decent point. I'll be kind, because so far, I feel like I'm kicking disabled children for fun.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:33 | 1933072 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Not to jump into the love fest but he did say "No power, no net or phone" which is true.  How would fiberoptics work without power?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:42 | 1933090 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

They do not work without power, they require pulsed light and that does not emanate from a zippo..

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:43 | 1933093 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture



Electrons flow in both directions.




Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:42 | 1933091 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture


It was irony. Does your old copper line analog phone work without "electricity"? [yes]

If the answer is yes, then the obvious answer to your question is that fibre optic works in the same manner.



It is legally required to do so. Transmitting electrons down fibre optic is a whole lot more energy efficient than copper.




Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:56 | 1933128 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Just to make it clear, you are saying there is power "somewhere" on the other side. 

Most people that have fiber optics have a wireless phone as well.  Those only work when power comes to the receiver.  Who has a fiber optic rotary?


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:58 | 1933132 knukles
knukles's picture

Copper lines work when you don't have electricity at home because the phone company supplies the power to land lines independent of your local utility.


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:06 | 1933152 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture



And that "power" to landlines (copper) is different to "power" to fibre optic lines... how?



Because, you know, I'm REALLY REALLY REALLY fucking interested in how "providing power" to a copper line is different to "not being able" to "provide power" to a fibre optic cable.




Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:12 | 1933170 criticaster
criticaster's picture

Jesus. Who are you? Carol Vordermann?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:20 | 1933187 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

And as long as you don't have all wireless phones in your house you are good to go. Keep an old wired receiver phone around as it will work in a power failure.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:06 | 1933150 criticaster
criticaster's picture


Telephone lines make a circuit with the exchange (when you connect something). You can actually steal electricity from them if you wish, although this is illegal (at least in the UK). So you are correct in that you dont need an external power source to run a telephone.

But electrons down fiber optic? Excuse me for being an ex-particle physicist, but AFAIK phtons travel down fiberoptic cable not electrons. So to use any energy coming from the exchange down a fiber optic cable you need a device which converts the photons to electric current (a CCD) and then run a device from this current. The device would need to then convert back to light to communicate with the exhange. This is not impossible, but it would be inefficient and much more complicated. So if what you say is true there should be a significant excess energy margin in the light coming down the fibre. Interesting if true.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:12 | 1933169 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Ah, at last :) I'm happy, there's some sense in the room.


You have to then posit an exchange of fibre optics that doesn't include a copper line just for this very reason. Fibre optics are never "fibre optics" unless it is a core pipe line [ocean etc].


As I said: it is a legal requirement that any device attached to a communication line can send a call. Try it. It works.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:14 | 1933172 criticaster
criticaster's picture

So basically you are saying that fibre optics also have a copper wire with them?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:20 | 1933188 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

No. Obvious troll is obvious.


Any connection over fibre optics requires that an emergency call can be made through it, at all times, with loss of power to sender. The same reason applies to why carrier signals have to be dual purpose.


If you want me to point out how it is done, then I will. But don't treat me like the mushrooms above. I know how it is done, and yes, it is a global requirement.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:26 | 1933208 criticaster
criticaster's picture

You have just been screaming at everyone that they dont understand science, but you have not given a clear explanation of how the power is delivered down a fibre optic device such that a device at the end of it can use that power to send a call. I suggested one way. Maybe another is 'a mirror'. I am genuinely interested so I dont see the need to get defensive.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:53 | 1933250 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

There's three issues here:

#1 if you're connecting to a fibre optic channel you already have power. TROLOLOL. (durrr.. obvious science - if your input isn't providing power, then...) [This was the irony]. If you don't have that, then... do what African nationals do. Get signal on your phone [and if you need a recharge, pedal a bit]. This is neither new nor fun.

#2 Look above: it was obvious irony. "Electrons down a fibre optic cable are the same as copper". FFS. Read the above statements of insanity over reality. Please... read the statements about "12 carriers being destroyed". Please. Then get a fucking clue.

#3 You can actually convert this to powered, but it would rely on the chemical / battery of the device you're using. Yes, it'd be a bit kinky, but you're ignoring that the person receiving this would most likely be using a battery driven construct. It is possible, but it requires a small convertor on your part.

#4 A hand driven torch (available: everywhere) would provide you with enough energy to get a fibre optic cable link going. Yep, one of those cool torches. Conversion: your problem (but obviously a battery between torch <-> computer). Fibre takes that little energy. Wait... powering up said computer takes energy? OH> LOLOLOL. (On the off side, you can power a phone to a fibre connection to text without any hassles at all).


Oh, and really? Tell me how fibre optic links between businesses work then please? Esp. African ones. Hint: They POWER DA COMPUTA. OR THEY JUST POWA DA CONNECTION.


Hint: Not everyone goes to pieces when their power goes "out". I was mocking the idiocy of the poster so enamoured  of their civilisation that they were unable to make sensible choices.


It was a critique of stupid libertarians, nothing more. I'm well able to provide solutions that doesn't require a nation state. Hint: about 1 billion people are using mobile phones without this "first world problem" stopping them communicating.




Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:03 | 1933339 criticaster
criticaster's picture

Sorry I think you over stretched yourself there old boy.

1. You are not concise (which indicates you are a bit confused)

2. You understand the scientific issue (that photons have energy as well as electric current) but by your own admission above you dont understand the techincal one (i.e. how does it work?)

3. You are calling everyone 'twats' etc... for failings that you youself display (not understanding the technical issue). This would indicate that you are 'the mark'.

4. You are using CAPS LOCK.

5. Obvious irony is otherwise know as sarcasm. AKA the lowest form of wit. How fitting.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:09 | 1933360 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Why the hell are we conversing with this rude idiot troll... No electricity and fiber optic and copper lines still work WTF...  "if your hooked up you must have power or pedal your african bike" Use of weapons does not include brain cells,  epic fail, retard, lead paint eating moron..

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:29 | 1933366 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

See below.

It is called a battery. Most landline phone sets which are "handless" have them.

It is how emergency services rely on domestic idiots like you.


Thankyou for playing, now fuck off.




If you had any sense of humanity, you'd fashion me a small apology. I don't expect it will happen, but hey.... if you're a human, you should give it. <WINNING>

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 23:46 | 1933781 TSA gropee
TSA gropee's picture

You sir are an infantile egomaniac, and your inability to engage in civil discourse is only eclipsed by your arrogance. Do you feel so poorly about yourself that you feel it necessary to try and make others feel worse? How sad. You're the guy at a party that everyone talks about and later asks, "who was that asshole?"

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 17:50 | 1936437 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Yes, that was the role I was playing. When I'm in that mood, the junks are looked for.

Sometimes you have to poke people hard before they think, even the smart humans. (See the below rational over batteries / copper lines carrying power).


If you think I was actually engaged with my ego, you're sadly sorely wrong. Enough booze and the ID passes out.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:10 | 1933362 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

And.. you missed the play.

It is called a battery. Cheap, solar powered, economically viable and able to power a hand set coupled to a fibre optic channel. Every home has them, and every device (phone) attached to a fibre optic channel has them (by law) and the small current (AA x2) they provide is enough to power a call to the relevant emergency services.

We can delve into 'nuclear batteries' *that exist, and cause problems in the ex-USSR" or we could just leave it here.



Poker. Don't bother playing it. Ever..


Now fuck off.



Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:13 | 1933379 criticaster
criticaster's picture

What? Not even a reach-around?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:20 | 1933387 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Er, given you missed the battery joke, I'm guessing your dildo ran out of power.

I'd suggest plugging it into the phone point or a solar powered one, but then I'd just be trolling.


All modern devices (non-analog phones) have BATTERIES for the exact reason of this thread. Hint: They work with batteries just as well on a fibre optic line. It was a test. You all failed. /sigh.





IQ = 140? Doesn't know what a battery is. WINNING.


If you've any self-awareness, go give yourself -1 on all replies out of shame.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:45 | 1933457 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Never mind.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 22:01 | 1933500 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture


I enjoy your input. Even if I've chewed you out once. We'll not go into battery (purely physical "wind up" conversion of energy into stored elec) allowing me to power a small array in the wilds of no-where, since I just chewed out two people who should know better about it. See earlier - I was trolling people so that the obvious answer would make them aware of how tenuous their connectivity is/

The argument was over whether "without power" [state supplied] would necessarily mean that the transition from analog [copper wire phones] to digital [fibre optic without power] would result in being "fucked" if an emergency happened and the State supplied power grid went out. Batteries are important.

Now, yes - if this was universal, then a whole lot of stuff would go out. But satellites would not: that's the point of them. Cell towers aren't powered (hmm - most aren't hardened the linch pin ones are though, they're hard-wired, and there's a sub-set that are nuclear powered).


So, humm, If shit came to fan, I know that with a decent battery and antenna I could hit a geosynchronous sat. from another country.  I also know that there's about 50+ militarised sats up there from 1950's onwards, whose only purpose is to fuck up the global communications. Bottom line: as ever, if humans really wanted to shit things up..... they could. That's why they spent $500,000,000 doing so.





Don't be a pussy and delete comments: stand up for what you think. Eh. Kinda sad you deleted all that stuff about towers and all... and I wasn't even going to chew you over.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 22:18 | 1933554 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Don't be a pussy and delete comments: stand up for what you think. Eh. Kinda sad you deleted all that stuff about towers and all... and I wasn't even going to chew you over."

I did leave it up long enough for you to see know I can't leave that shit up there, thanks for not tagging it & blocking me ;-)

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 00:00 | 1933818 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"Transmitting electrons down fibre optic is a whole lot more energy efficient than copper."

For someone who "bashes" people for lack of science literacy, you have a great deal of learning to do about the difference between electrons and photons.

Sending electrons down your fibre won't accomplish much more than possibly some exciting impromptu arc-welding.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:21 | 1933030 onarga74
onarga74's picture

Would that affect Netflix downloads too? 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:09 | 1933361 criticaster
criticaster's picture

I dont know. But I am guessing it would put an end to being able to order a dominos pizza from the UNIX command line. Right?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:45 | 1932899 deepsouthdoug
deepsouthdoug's picture

If it's WAR?  Then default on all their UST Bonds.  Give me liberty or give me debt!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:50 | 1932921 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

War is preferable to debt.


We could empty all of our prisons in this state and ship the hardened immates out behind enemy lines to raise hell and chaos.


Ergo. break a law, then you are sent to war. If you live, you are free.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:59 | 1933008 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

duplicate deleted

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:20 | 1933024 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture


The whole point of MAD is that WAR (Mutually Assured Destruction) is inconceivable and thus, we all strive not to go to war.

Are you on meth? Because, shit... I need some of the drugs you're pumping, life seems so much more exciting and simple and plausible now.


Or are you merely a retard?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:58 | 1933134 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Nope, it wouldn't empy our prison system.  It would just create MORE incentive to lock people up.  Building weapons of war with the free labor of inmates is only one step from what you're proposing, and guess what, we are already doing that.  Ergo, make more laws, get more people in prison.  If you are chosen to go to war, you will be "free"... of tertiary expenses to the government. 

I have a feeling that debt is probably preferable to war.  Especially if we retrained ourselves to not use debt as life support. 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:45 | 1932901 fpscod9
fpscod9's picture


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:57 | 1932945 non_anon
non_anon's picture

Islam or Communism, your choice

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 18:58 | 1932949 nyse
nyse's picture


Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:00 | 1932955 yogibear
yogibear's picture

It's stupid for Chinese to threaten publically, seems like a loose cannon. If China waits a little longer the US will be further weakened economically. China should be well aware,the way to win a war with a super power is to take away their super power status and reduce their importance. Once the US is weakened enough China can control the US. 

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:06 | 1932973 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Just sell the treasuries to the FED.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:14 | 1933004 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

"Read my rips", you white devils.......

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:31 | 1933051 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

...and if you ask people if they thought we were on the verge of WWIII, the vast majority would say 'what'? Maybe even say, 'are you drinking'? 

Imperial monetarism is running amok as it is failing. 


Impeach Obama


American Credit System


Those three things will allow us to avoid WWIII AND a new dark age.


It says alot when Russia is sending the strongest of it's navy to Syria.

It says alot when we bomb for 1-2 hours, with them radioing us, and it's clearly marked on all U.S. maps, two Pakistani outposts whose constituency just finished some war games with the Chinese earlier in the day.


We still are playing the Keynesian vs Austrian debate, instead of questioning monetarism as a whole.  Since both (and others) are merely schools OF MONETARISM, an oligarchical principle.


People need to wake up.  All of this is unneeded and keeping us from engaging in the projects that will ensure the human race survives.  Instead of even doing those things, we're needlessly pushing both economic and thermonuclear Armageddon. 


This shit ain't hard, once you peel back the bullshit....and the above marks only a FEW of the obvious events pointing to both nuclear war, and an economic breakdown crisis worse than anything in the history of the world.  Including the economic mess preceding the bubonic plague in Europe (and why it hit so hard). Like a person with AIDS, when your body is weak, any otherwise minor disease can kill you.

The depopulation idiots are perhaps about to get their wish, except they will be included in the culling.  Completely unnecessary, and only idiots spouting mindless sophistry believe otherwise.

There will be no 'safe' place.  Everybody will be fucked.

Got a lifetime supply of toilet paper?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:11 | 1933166 criticaster
criticaster's picture

Fuckin A

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:17 | 1933176 jomama
jomama's picture

explain again what impeaching obama will achieve?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:23 | 1933198 criticaster
criticaster's picture

Short teleprompters.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 01:25 | 1933979 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

A fuckin' big deal.

Prez Biden, yo.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:32 | 1933066 razorthin
razorthin's picture

Hell, if we aren't smart enough to elect RP, then bring it on.  This global ponzi needs to be vaporized.  Some uncontrolled fission ought to do the trick.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:38 | 1933083 fpscod9
fpscod9's picture

Keynesian vs Austrian,,,Keynesian will win for another 50 years,,,tilll total colloapse and war brokeout,,,

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:50 | 1933113 razorthin
razorthin's picture

I find it fitting that Austrians speak German.  And Germans will have nothing to do with another hyperinflationary depression.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:47 | 1933105 blindman
blindman's picture

existential threat justifies all manner of
stealing and enslavement. even morons can get the better
of wisemen this way, just by summoning the fear card.
one must be fearless to survive today.
it must be as old as dirt, this technique. the " banker
and quisling security act " it should be called! s 1867.
"Quisling (Norwegian pronunciation: [?k??s?l??]; English: /?kw?zl??/) is a term used in reference to fascist and collaborationist political parties and military and paramilitary forces in occupied Allied countries which collaborated with Axis occupiers in World War II, as well as for their members and other collaborators."
g. null interview with christopher anders
notice minute 30 also. general explains policy coup.
ushering in the death of this country from within. pnac.
Wednesday November 30 12:00pm
The McCain-Levin End of America Act
Chris Anders on military custody for terrorism suspects
Training the Next Generation of Imperialists
Steve Horn, Allen Ruff on the war party at the university
US Still Backs Despotism in Middle East
John Glaser on Hillary's Yemen and Bahrain
Scott Horton Interviews Christopher Anders
Scott Horton, November 29, 2011

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 19:49 | 1933109 Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

The "thermonuclear age" began on 1 November 1952 when the U.S. exploded the first thermonuclear bomb at Eniwetok atoll in the Pacific. Codenamed 'Mike', this bomb was 500 times more powerful than the 'Trinity' test and had an estimated yield of 10.4 megatons. As for the other thermonuclear states: the Soviet Union tested its first thermonuclear bomb on 22 November 1955; China on 17 June 1967; Britain on 8 November 1957 and; France on 24 August 1968.

The U.S. has carried out 1,030 nuclear weapons tests (the last and final test on 23 September 1993). The Soviet Union: 715 tests (the last on 25 October 1990 -- Russia has not exploded any nuclear weapons). France: 210 tests (the last and final test on 27 January 1996). Britain: 45 tests (the last and final on 26 November 1991). China: 43 tests (with some four more tests reportedly planned for 1996-1997).

The average pace of nuclear weapons testing is remarkable: Since 16 July 1945 there have been 2,044 tests worldwide, the equivalent of one test occurring somewhere in the world every nine days for the last fifty years.


We're all still here.  Nuclear Winter My Ass

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:13 | 1933171 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Yes Ann Coulter, radiation is good for you.  Why don't you pitch a tent at Fukushima.  Yes, we are all here except for those that aren't.  Duh!!!!!!!!!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:30 | 1933193 criticaster
criticaster's picture

The nuclear winter concept is to do with the effect of detonation of many multi-megaton warheads nearly simultaneuously. But, fair point, even the 50MT Tsar bomba did not cause a nuclear winter.

More disturbing however would be the effect of these detonations in cities. You dont have to knock out many major cities to cripple a country and send it back several hundred years. A declassified report from the 80's estimated that london plus 10-20% of the UK urban centres would cause the effective disintegration of all meaningful means of government. Many on ZH might rejoice at that idea, but joking aside, the prospect is not pretty.

Watch the excellent 'Threads' on you tube to be reminded how terrfying nuclear weapons and their effects on soft targets (and not just deserted military testing ranges) really is.

Post-Script: However due it is massive yield the Tsar bomba was detonated at high altitude to minimise fall out (and hence atmospheric ash). According to wikipedia it was actually one of the cleanest detonations ever. But the picture would be different if it had been a ground burst. Also, in general nuclear tests a designed to limit fallout and debris. Hence they also minimise the radioactive ash that would cause a nuclear winter. If used in anger they could be much more dirty and cause a greater atmospheric disturbance.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:14 | 1933378 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Sagan and his political/scientific theory of Nuclear winter has been thoroughly repudiated..   

 leftists: masters of snark yet empty vessels..

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 21:29 | 1933422 criticaster
criticaster's picture

Interesting link man... thanks.

But there is no way that is even a repudiation let alone a thorough one. For a start it is not a scientific paper, its a cultural theory meta analysis of pre-existing science. Immediately I down grade it for this (anyone who says meta-narrative needs a sharp lesson in not being a douche as far as I am concerned). Therefore all this can ever do is argue and review. Secondly the straight denails of the science are journalistic quotes from scientitsts. Some of whom (eg. Dick Feynmann) seem to distance themselves from the comment after the fact. Not great evidence. And my final objection is the main one and of greater generality than this issue. Because the nuclear winter model is in some senses wrong (they are listed in the paper, eg. its one dimensional) people think that the whole thing should be ignored (its the same in climate modelling). But the fact is that all models are wrong. Models are not there to be right. They are there to be useful. One way in which they are useful (as distinct from being useful in the sense of predicting the flight path of a satillite) is to make us quantitatively explore a hypothesis. Asking if nukes could kick up enough ash so as to increase the albedo of the earth (as volcanoes can do) is not unreasonable.

I am not a member of the 'peace lobby' as the paper laughingly puts it. Nor am I a proponent of nuclear winter theory. But this paper refutes nothing. It reads more like a meme assasination attempt by someone with a motive to make nukes seem less apocalyptically horrendous than they really are.

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:10 | 1933165 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

No tickee, no laundry!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:36 | 1933238 Plumplechook
Plumplechook's picture

Brothers, sisters - why are we fighting and what for!!

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:41 | 1933253 mattw
mattw's picture


Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!