Chris Martenson And Harvey Organ: Get Physical Gold & Silver

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Chris artenson

Harvey Organ: Get Physical Gold & Silver!

Harvey Organ has been analyzing the bullion markets closely for decades. The quality and accuracy of his work is respected enough to have earned him an invitation to testify before the CFTC on position limits for precious metals back in 2010.

And he minces no words: gold and silver prices are suppressed. With extreme prejudice.

In this detailed interview, Harvey explains to Chris the mechanics how of he sees this manipulation occurring, why he predicts this fraudulent pricing scheme will collapse soon, and why it's critical to be holding physical (vs paper) bullion when it does.

The real suppression of the metals started in 1988. That’s when the leasing game started and was invented by J.P. Morgan.

 

These guys would go around to the mining companies and say “Listen, I’m going to pay you for your gold in the ground and I will sell it. You just pay me as you bring it out.” So that was cheap financing to the miners. Barrick, the biggest mining company of them all, went in on this and it financed a lot of Nevada projects.

 

Once the leasing game came, the actual selling, the extra selling, suppressed the price. In the first five years, it started at maybe three hundred to four hundred tons. It didn’t start to get really bad until probably ’97-’98 with the Long Term Capital affair. And that’s when the leasing started to become around maybe 1,000 tons of gold. And it hasn’t stopped.

 

And silver is the same.

 

And that’s why you've had a long-term, 20 years of suppression of the metals. The problem now is that the physical is now gone. Where is going? It’s gone from West to East.

 

A lot of people don’t know that China used to refine close to 80% of the world’s supplies of silver, because it’s very toxic. Up until probably ’85, the Chinese handled 80% of the world’s refining of silver. Now they're down to 40%, but that’s still a major part of China’s industry. They are keeping every single silver ounce they refine, and gold. They are keeping it for themselves; their reserves are rising (though they don’t tell exactly). Two years ago they went up to 1,054 tons and I can assure you it’s probably triple that now. These guys are not stopping. Just like they are not stopping in oil. They know what the game is and they are slowly taking all their U.S. dollars that are on their shelf and converting them to gold, oil, copper – anything that’s real.

 

And the game ends when the last ounce of gold has left London -- not COMEX, because in a nanosecond it will come back to here.

 

The big problem in London is that their derivatives on gold are about 50 to 100-to-1. That’s the amount of derivatives. So if I take out that 1 ounce, the balloon around it -- the derivative  -- is getting bigger and bigger and bigger until it’s ready to totally implode.

 

And that’s what you are seeing now. So right now, people are going to say: how high can it go? And I’m going to tell you: you are going to go to sleep on Thursday night and gold may be $1,670. And then you wake up the next day and it’s going to be a banking holiday. And gold will be $3,000 bid, no offer. No offer -- and it will be a banking holiday. Because there will be a failure to deliver.

You’ve got to have physical coins or bars. If all you have is a piece of paper -- that’s all it is!  It will just blow up in smoke.

So just go buy your physical and be thankful that you are getting it at a cheaper price today.     

Click the play button below to listen to Part I of Chris' interview with Harvey Organ (runtime 32m:36s). 

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To listen to Part 2 - Click Here.

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SilverTree's picture

$30,000 bid, no offer - [fixed]

Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Here is a great book for everyone -

The ABC's of Gold Investing: Protecting Your Wealth Through Private Gold Ownership:

http://www.amazon.com/The-ABCs-Gold-Investing-Protecting/dp/1886039291

Roger O. Thornhill's picture

I think the podcast is all accurate up until the end. Where I think they're wrong is their belief that Europe and the US will somehow go over the cliff tied at the hip. Although they will ultimately fall over the same cliff I believe there will be a time - however brief (could be a month or a year)  - that there will be a dollar strengthening in relation to a euro implosion. The US will be seen as safe simply on a psychological level - the last bastion of traditional safety which has been burned into the minds of at least 4 generations. Don't doubt the power of delusion - it is why we have been trading real things for paper for over 100 years (and in some cases, longer).

At the point of this dollar strengthening is about when I feel I will finally go all metal as I believe there will be a decent dip in metals at that time (I already have acquired the amount that will act as insurance years ago). Soon the world will see how weak our balance sheets are and then we get the final flight for safety. It will be a bumpy ride down and there will be no real capitulation for the duration. The politicians will lie and lie harder as we go over the cliff. Never doubt that the governments and the banks will say and do almost anything to hold it together - it should have blown up 2008 but they maneuvered, lied, changed accounting rules, etc. to keep the ponzi going - you would be a fool to think they will suddenly stop lying and let the market and/or price discovery work. They just will not. It will be ugly.

Also there may be surprises from Germany, China, etc. - be ready for that - the Germans won't go off the cliff so easily without some fight at the end. China is playing it's own game. In human event things don't move staticly - they are dynamic. Think chess - not checkers. The end will come, but be aware how it comes may surprise you.

Where I think many of us go wrong is that we think, suddenly (magically), honesty will prevail. Honesty will come, but it will be a horrible up and down ride getting there. Always remember, the market can stay insane much longer than you can remain solvent. Words I live by.

GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Honesty will come...

 

More like they'll lose control and the whole damn thing will blow up in their faces.

 

Roger O. Thornhill's picture

More like they'll lose control and the whole damn thing will blow up in their faces.


That is the eventual outcome.  As people lose confidence and finally realize that the idiots in charge are lying and obfuscating it will then blow up. All of human society is a confidence game - we do what we do because we believe it - not often questioning.

When enough people finally see the con - that's when we fall off the cliff. But like I said, they will play the game even as we fall off the cliff. 

My earlier mistake in investing was thinking the 'jig would be up' all at once. That was a bad mistake for my investing and I got burned for thinking the math would be clear and that the market was in control. The market is there, but fighting against an onslaught of liars and educated fools, both in government, finance and the media.

 

GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Everyone knows the jig is basically up. They can manipulate it down but someone will be there to buy the subsidized metals. In other words there is no honor among thieves. China, Russia, India.....you can name them right down the line. If the Fed and the BIS want to fund everyone's PMs....what the hell.....let them at it.

 

It's basically come down to a game of chicken......buy early and stop having to worry about jerking the wheel at the last second....you could be a second to late.

 

Gold has been tracking the US debt level almost perfectly for the last 10 years.....we all know what direction that's heading.

 

Click'n'cry

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/283172_238479886172297_123178441035776_783162_1438025_n.jpg

 

aaxiom's picture

I've been a stacker for quite a long time now. What I fail to understand (and what I cannot seem to reconcile) is that an ounce of any precious metal pretty much buys today what it used to buy 50+ years ago -- on average.

As this is the case, where is the manipulation? What is manipulated? Now, it goes without saying that metals are incredibly manipulated, but I must conclude that this must be the case for all asset classes if the ounce still buys what an ounce once bought.

Can you shed light on this apparent contradiction?

CLARIFICATION: I compute the value of gold per ounce as the amount of currency in existence divided by the number of ounces in reserve (which I believe is seriously understated)... thus, I believe that metal prices are certainly being suppressed. It's simply the purchasing power issue that I cannot reconcile.

Thanks for reading.

Chaffinch's picture

Aaxiom - gold is more important today than it was 50 years ago as we are heading for an epic crash on a scale previously unseen. More people have access to buying gold than they did 50 years ago, and more people have access to sufficient fiat to buy gold than they did 50 years ago. The central banks are actively buying it now, which adds to the demand.

rehypothecator's picture

As a long term stacker, you must think that fiat is overvalued and that some day in the future, gold will be worth much more than it presently is.  And yet it is only worth about as much, in other real terms, as it has for the last 100 years.  Therefore, it is presently undervalued.  What is the origin of this undervaluation?  Could it be the manipulation that is being spoken of?  How much would gold be worth without said manipulation?  Probably more than it has always been worth up until now.  

Shibumi2's picture

Very good question. I had wondered about that as well and realized that the apparent discrepancy comes from the fact that the true price of goods and services has been supressed as well.

The prices paid for products USED to support a middle class lifestyle of american workers. The prices paid for food USED to support the production of healthy and nutritious foods. Essentially all hard goods production has been shifted to China where it is produced by slave labor. Food quality has been degraded to the point americans are fat and unhealthy...as witnessed by health care costs.

The US lives on slave labor and faux food, and THAT has how the illusion of parity has been allowed to remain. 

 

One look at energy prices tells the story of what a us dollar will still buy in real products.

 

 

gold-is-not-dead's picture

answer is quite easy, production of many assets is nowdays much cheaper due to better technology...

fockewulf190's picture

What many people do not talk about is the effect a worldwide economic collapse is going to have on the second and third world countries. Over a billion people on this earth are living on a dollar a day, and at least a billion more have two dollars a day to survive on. Anybody with a 50 IQ and above can figure out what is going to happen when that dollar or two goes zimbabwian. The World Food Program will be screaming for donations...but in which form? Dollars and Euros are toast.

Gold and Silver perhaps?

Absinthe Minded's picture

@Getzeegold

That chart is about the best one I've seen referencing our dilemma. Note the pullback after every rise induced by debt level increase drama. That is where we are right now. As good a time to stock up as I have ever seen, besides 2007. Of course the earlier you get in the better off you are. I don't think many are taking into consideration the unknown. Exacty how high do you think the tax rates are going to be when 2013 hits? All the mandatory cuts are not going to be allowed to happen and in order to prevent our credit rating from going any lower and causing our bond rates to rise they will announce new taxes. So if you have money in a 401K that you can pull out to convert to PMs, this might be the best time. Consider, if your company match was half what you paid in, then your company already paid all the taxes, you just have to pay the 10% early withdrawal penalty. People have to get over the stigma of being "gold bugs". It is about survival, and if you think the tax rate you pay on your 401K withdrawals is going to be less than they are now then there is no hope for you. I'm not even taking into account if they decide to levy a one time asset tax. "Mr. Moneybags, I'm glad to see you've done so well for yourself. Since I know you're a patriot you should have no problem paying this one time 30% asset tax. After all, it's for the good of the country." No thanks, I'll take my chances with PMs. Not HFT manipulated, crappy fund managers that don't have a clue what to do or ZIRP induced .50% interest returns. Thanks Bernank, you've pushed us into the only thing that makes sense, but also ultimately assures your demise.

earleflorida's picture

an american business man goes to Zimbabwe to enhance his importing business with local business leaders --- soon after coming to contractual agreements, the issue of payment is at the fore --- the businessman offers 50% payment in U.S. Dollars --- whoa,... says the merchant, we don't want your fucking [kite flying] greenback --- you pay in renminbi yuan or no quano, period!    

endicott glacier's picture

Bang on Roger! I think that is the scnario I expect to playout. I think dollar will strengthen and gold will see down side before restarting uptrend and could be signficant. Time to sit tight for a bit and watch...

MonsterBox's picture

"Never doubt that the governments and the banks will say and do almost anything to hold it together - it should have blown up 2008 but they maneuvered, lied, changed accounting rules, etc. to keep the ponzi going - you would be a fool to think they will suddenly stop lying and let the market and/or price discovery work. They just will not."

Think of this Western Financial System as a living organism.  It will not die willingly.  It will fight in every conceivable manner to it's last gasp.  sacfice it's friends, women, children or it's own humanity, No matter.   I doubt The End be in a month, maybe in a year.  It has a lot of hidden strength (read sheeple interia) to draw on.  But The End is coming.  The Lying Train cannot avoid the Wall.

Raymond Reason's picture

At the point of this dollar strengthening is about when I feel I will finally go all metal as I believe there will be a decent dip in metals at that time

That would be a long-shot bet.  I mean, you might be right (that they are not tied at the hip), but i wouldn't bet on it, the banks certainly are.  The collapse of the Euro will shatter confidence throughout the West.  You agree this is the ultimate outcome.  You were right in principle but wrong on timing in 08, as many of us  were.  But going all in on precious metals then or now was/is prudent.  Waiting is gambling. But i guess you've got insurance.  Good luck.   

CaliExpat's picture

I have worked with his group before, very nice folks and the book is an interesting read.

EvlTheCat's picture

Excellent book, but be cautious when dealing with the company it represents, USAGold.com.   Nice folks, not pushy, but like any investment firm they have their biases.  It may not cost them personally, but potential clients with limited investment budgets, need to make sure they are on the ball as to what is a good potential investment vs. a standard run of the mill investment.

But like I said earlier, great people!

CaliExpat's picture

Yeah, you have to shop.  Sometimes their spot prices are above those offered by others.  However, their no pressure attitude and the time they are willing to spend discussing options and products is refreshing.

SilverTree's picture

FYI,

$30,000 ÷ 16 = $1,875 silver

Big Slick's picture

I discovered Chris Martenson through Zero Hedge and find both sources to be the most important outlets of news and macro-economic analysis today.  I REALLY ENJOY his 50-minute interviews from subjects like Stockman, Faber, Jansen, Brodsky, Ferguson, and many many more.  The interviews are PACKED with knowledge and data; they hold up on a significant timescale (i.e., year-old interviews are pertinent even today); and they are very entertaining.  The interviews are easily downloadable on MP3 and I enjoy listen to them while mowing the lawn or working out.  I invite ZH readers of all levels of knowledge and expertise to check them out.  Chris has an interview list that keeps growing but is hard to find on his site.  Best way to find is by Googling "Chris Martenson, blog, (and some name of his latest interviewee - e.g, Erik Townsend - a few days ago).

Martenson has an amazing style that is objective (he's a former research scientist), non-political, and incorporates both global news and analysis; and solutions on a personal and even community scale.  He is also VERY positive (glass half full)... never doom and gloom.

Enjoy.

Disclaimer: I am not associated with CM or ZH in any way.  Just a HUGE HUGE fan!

(apologies for double post)

LowProfile's picture

The only thing I quibble with him on is global warming and peak oil.  Both are BS, the former a control mechanism, the latter artificial scarcity.

Otherwise, he's great.  4 1/2 stars.

derek_vineyard's picture

owning a paper form of gold is banking that you will be able to time the collapse of the fiat and convert to physical when you 'need' to

lol...........like that has any chance of happening

if you go physical........its a life style and attitude change that you have to believe in and protect accordingly

Big Slick's picture

Low Profile - you are 100% correct about the global warming thing.  Other thing about CM is his lack of faith in human ingenuity to solve our future energy problems.  His dearth of discussion wrt fusion is glaring to me.

 

LowProfile's picture

Agree.

The biggest challenge facing humanity today is an oligopoly using government to prevent us from developing the technology needed to advance our species.

Dr. Engali's picture

Do we need technology to advance our species, or do we need to advance as a species? My view is a little civility can go a long way achieving those ends. Having said that I agree the oligarchs do use government to prevent us from doing lots of things, but they only get away with it because we let them.

GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Repeat after me....

 

These climate change people are not crazy.....not crazy.....not crazy.....not crazy.....not crazy.

 

Climate Alarmist Calls For Burning Down Skeptics' Homes...

 

Errol's picture

Mr Profile, are you serious, or maybe just having fun with us like MDB?

On your planet, is there some huge reserve of near-surface, light, sweet oil we have overlooked?

And are you aware that the evil "oligopoly using government to prevent us from developing technology" spent the equivalent of about a trillion in current dollars trying to make hydrogen fusion economically viable?  Huge amounts of money were spent, huge apparati were built, and still, for my entire lifetime, fusion has been "just 10 years away". 

The trajectory of Western industrial civilization rose from wind, water, and solar (forrest charcoal)  power to coal to petroleum to fission; the next step was to be fusion.  But fusion, despite a huge amount of effort by uninversities and governments the world over, didn't arrive as hoped.  I know you would like to remain in denial, but the sad truth is we will now experience an unending economic contraction, until the arc is complete and we have returned to largely wind, water, and solar (photosynthetic) power sources.

It is comforting to believe that there is some huge conspiracy controlling things...this implies that at least *someone* is in control.  Sorry - all there is are humans acting in their short-term interest, as they were selected long ago to do.

False Capital's picture

Dude, Thorium -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/839398...

Thousands of years of reserves should last until fusion gets up and running.

 

EDIT: Didn't scroll down and see Pufferfish got there before me. Respect where it's due.

Big Slick's picture

Somewhat refuting the first part of my prior post (like many on ZH, I should think first before firing off)... as I reflect about it more - and consider his insights in the Crash Course... I actually do NOT think Chris Martenson overstates the global warning issue.  As an atmospheric physicist, I believe that anthropogenic warming is not proven.  And I notice that CM maintains a distance from commenting on the issue too much.  Probably an empirical trait of his objective experience as a research scientist.  He has his opinions on the issue - but the meat of his writing and commentary address more relevant issues. 

Toxicosis's picture

There's that word you used. "BELIEF".  Scientists have no need for that word.  Whether you 'believe' in something or anything or not is irrelevant.  As a previous research scientist myself, who now employs extensive science in my present career, I have no interest in belief, nor assumption.  Assessment is what we have to display conviction of, assessment of facts most importantly.  Facts can and will oftentimes lead to trends and trendlines, that is what we must pursue.  Not our beliefs.

newworldorder's picture

Since "belief" is not a part of your daily exestance, you may indeed be a lucky human being. Most tend to associate belief with religion, but it applies equally well to non religious issues. To that end, please look around you. Most people live their lives of "belief" in many things. In fact it is belief that makes most of us get up in the morning. Otherwise, many would not care about anything other than satisfying their physical needs.

The world therefore functions on belief. It takes a lot of pain for most people to change their various beliefs.

Toxicosis's picture

Not lucky.  Just determined and convicted.  You either choose to accept reality or you don't.  And no, most people's lives revolve around trust not belief.  They trust they're car will start, the food they eat won't harm or poison them.  They trust that the plane won't crash.  It's because these things already exist that they do not have to believe in them or they're track record of capabilities.  Whereas the belief in the supernatural does guide far too many people's lives, because the lack of evidence and thus existence is not to be found.  And what makes most people get up in the morning is the existence of thyroid hormone most importantly.

TrulyBelieving's picture

Enjoyed your insightful post.  But i would disagree that the supernatural does exist, though quite likely you personally have not seen the evidence.

dark pools of soros's picture

so how do you use dollars without belief of the supernatural??

Big Slick's picture

Toxicosos - I respectfully disagree with the basis of your argument and I think that you are getting bogged down with semantics regarding the word 'belief.'  As an example: overwhelming evidence supporting the hypothesis of the double helix structure of DNA leads me to personally 'believe' that Watson and Crick's hypothesis for the model is the truth.  Prior to their 1953 Nature article, less substanative data caused many scientists to 'believe' that other models were correct.  Sometimes 'reality' is not so black and white.

Calmyourself's picture

Right on, current states of the art in fusion / fission are a convenient canard to stop pursuing nuclear in any of its varied incarnations.  Thorium reactors in pebble bed formations look to be self limiting as they require no cooling pumps, water etc..  Some form of nuclear will need to be a large part of the mix or we all better dig some holes for the lazy neighbors and sharpen our axes for the winter.

easypoints's picture

Fusion, Fission, Thorium, nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, ext... has little to do with the issue of peak oil.

Peak oil is about liquid fuels, plastics, paint, tires, cosmetics, asphalt, and a lot of other things around you that are processed from petroleum. We are unsure if there are enough rare earths left to build many more lithium batteries. China and Chile hold 80% of the world's lithium reserves. Maybe Chile will one day have to be "liberated". If someone can build a mini-fission or thorium reactor that Ford can install, economicly, before TSHTF, well... give me their stock symbol, and I'll sell every ounce I have.

Thorium is great for lighting and refrigeration, but it doesn't do much for the global shipping fleet or a quarter of a billion cars.

Calmyourself's picture

I will not argue that point.  PC feedstocks will last a long, long time if we can cut back significantly on oil for transport.  That's the sticky wicket isn't it..

easypoints's picture

Watch the airlines. If any inovations can be made, you will see them there first, the status quo be damned, and to the benefit of all of us. If not, game over.

rehypothecator's picture

You are mistaken.  With unlimited energy, hydrogen can be made, e.g. by electrolysis of water, and this can be reacted with carbon dioxide to make "synthesis gas," a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen (and water which is removed).  Synthesis gas can be used as a feedstock for the Fischer-Tropsch process, which makes hydrocarbons, including liquid hydrocarbons.  Returning to the point, thorium-derived electricity, or even thorium-derived heat, can make the starting hydrogen.  So, contrary to your statement, there is a nuclear path to combustible transportation fuel.  

easypoints's picture

Like batteries, that many hydrogen fuel cells will require materials to produce. Hopefully different new techs working together can come in to play after a monetary re-set.

easypoints's picture

Trains are a great way to impliment this tech too, and I think that's what Buffet has in mind.

Axenolith's picture

Hydrocarbons = H and C.  It's all over the freakin' place.  You just have to decide how badly you need HXCX (with maybe some neat other elements to make cool stuff) and what your willing to pay for it.