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CME Cuts Gold, Silver, Platinum And Copper Margins
It has been so long since the CME cut gold and silver margins that frankly we are a little bit stunned... In an extended announcement, which saw outright margins for virtually every commodity get cut, the CME just lowered Initial and Maintenance margins of gold (by 12%) and silver (13%), to $7500 maintenance for GC and $16000 maintenance for SI. Did the paper bull trap season just open? And how long before these are re-hiked by 15%, 20% or more? For now, however, this is certainly near-term bullish.
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Don't you mean paper gold?
I recall reading somewhere that JP Morgue increased their Ag short position by 18,000 contracts. That doesn't compute with this unless...the memo is going to be rescinded Monday morning after the sheep are herded into the pen over the weekend.
We regret any inconvenience. Please accept the attached, corrected memo in which "cut" has been replaced by "hike."
Theory: what would repel folks from investing in PMs more than sucking them all into the ring with an eight-ball of hopium, and then having it crash on them almost as fast? Would make for easy pickin's for the CBs amid the carnage.
Add in the ETFs and their "authorized participants" playing along (baskets of Comex paper in, baskets of gold out), and you just might have yourself a theory.
OT but I have to share:
Got a check for a little over $5K from my retirement account, J.P. Morgan Chase account.
I go into my Chase branch to cash it - THEY WOULD NOT CASH IT.
Initially the 21 or so year old kid says o.k., asks for two forms of I.D.
Give him my drivers license and debit card from another bank with signature. He types in my debit card #. I ask "Is that necessary?". "Oh yes, we need two forms of I.D.". Hmmm....o.k.
Then he offers me the fingerprint pad and tells me I need to give him my index finger print on the check. "Really? Is that necessary?" I ask. "Yes, we can't cash the check without it." Hmmm...o.k.
Then he gets the assistant manager to get the cash. She comes over and tells me that Chase won't cash "that kind of check". I said "What do you mean, it is drawn on your bank, issued through your bank?" She says "They won't let us cash that kind of check, or cash checks drawn from that kind of account."
I called my bank and they said if I deposit the check, wait for it to clear, then call them ahead of time I can use my debit card to go to any bank and get the cash. I'm looking forward to going back to the Chase branch to get the CA$H!
Fuck yes, bleed these kunnts the slow and painful death way...
Joke's likely on him. (He's been SARed)
You are probably right, but I'm getting it now before they tell me the funds are "unavailable until further notice".
The bigger stink is that you actually bank with Chase.
May as well open up an account with Corzine's next venture, stack up more paper GLD, applaud the Bernank for saving the economy, and bumper sticker the car with Obama/Mitt '12.
Better yet, how 'bout you just shoot your buddy, take his job, give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? You could be elected president.
I DO NOT bank with Chase.
My bank does not have a local branch.
The check itself was backed by J.P. Morgan Chase so I figured "Why would they not cash their own check?".
If I did bank with Chase you would be on the right track.
OK.
Its still funny though. Cuz fuk Jamie Dimon that's why, bitchez.
Agreed.
The look on their faces when I said "So you won't cash your own check?" was priceless.
They tried to get me to open an account and I said "No, I know too much about your boss and your bank."
That was a great scene from Good Will Hunting (nice reference on your part)
Most sheep are lulled to sleep with catchy scenes from the sell-outs in Hollywood....only to get suckered by the ugliest actors in Washington D.C.
Wait til this time next year!!!!!!!
Land of the free. HHmmmmm. O.K.
For those of us who have never bought physical gold before, is $40 markup per ounce reasonable for $100K investment ? This guy is actually listed on the US Mint site and has been in business since 1977. Just seems a little like going to a pawn shop...
That's about 2.25%. Check around, but probably on par with other options at $100K. Ask about delivery TIME. How quick he is to respond and how convincing he is will give you an indication of how robust his operation is.
My two oz.
The cheapest thing Tulving has is Krugerrands for $25 over spot. 2012 Eagles and Buffaloes are listed at +$62, with older dates sold out. Since he has a 20 oz. minimum order, I'd say he's fairly representative of the $100k market (not that I'd know).
This guy was quoting Swiss/Australian bars. He said allow 7 days for delivery. He would deliver it to a bank if I'd like. He'd take a local check since it took a week to get it. I also called another guy who said he had it on hand - but the conversation was a lot shorter.
Keep it cool, dry and nearby or one day kiss it good bye!
Check out BBB and negative comments on internet as part of your due diligence. Of course, having $100K to invest would seem to indicate you are no dummy:)
Mine used to be dry and nearby till that day on the lake.
Try www.comparegoldprices.com I like coins better than bars because you may have to have them assayed to sell (depending on size/make, buyer, etc). If you go with a coin, go with a well known variety like Kruggerands, Eagles, Maple leafs, etc. Just an opinion.
divedivedive
Then NO your paying the going rate for the bars.
Stick w/coins.....................
Krugs at $25.00 is a deal.IF you get them......................I would take delivery in person,from them.
Those "Swiss Australian" bars are from Australian Bullion Company through their arrangement with PAMP of Switzerland...PAMP are London Good Delivery for a lot of their products.
www.abcbullion.com.au
They have a daily price sheet that you can check his margin against theirs. They have been reliable for many years...but, they just remodelled their showroom!!!
That's a little over 2% per ounce.
Not high as far as over spot %'s go but for you putting in $100K that would chafe at me a little.
You should have bought at $1,600 per ounce.
I'd wait for another correction before I plunked down $100K, but if you are leaving the country to escape the skullduggery and legerdemain of U.S.S.A. I'd say ~ $2,300 is worth it.
If we could unload this palace, I would be writing you from Mexico. Just can't get a fair price when the banks are dumping houses for 45 cents on the dollar...
Kinda hard to determine a fair measure when the ruler is made of silly-putty.
Sorry to hear it. Yes, if you look at the short sale and foreclosure properties it is stunning.
The county actually has a website which has ebay like auctions. They are offering about 250 homes a day. You can pick up a home which went for 1.5M in 2006 for less than 600K. I forget the upfront money requirement but it wasn't very much. Then turn around and flip it in about 4 months for 750K. Of course you take the risk of not unloading it.
Good advice. Might consider buying in $25K increments over the next few weeks/months. I see more deflation ahead. When these derivatives start to unwind "everything" and I mean "everything" will go down at breath taking speed. Only after that will the unstoppable march upward in the metals begin!
Shop around. There is a lot of physical metal out there for sale. APMEX is selling brand name one ounce gold bars for I think $35 over spot. If you can buy one ounce gold maples, krugerrands or eagles from a reputable dealer for $40 over spot ask, take it!
There's also sites like bullionvault and goldmoney which are better for bigger investments. You could also go for a ETF like CEF or PHYS (Careful about the NAV Premium).
Good luck! :)
CME credit downgrade and disappearing customer base has rattled them. India now has the world's largest silver futures volume. HK exchange trading gold and silver WITH proper regulatory oversight AND contract law enforcment...so if you're an investor and you want actual transparency, real laws and guarantees you have to go to COMMUNIST CHINA.
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/s-downgrades-cme-group-to-a...
From the link - "Our question is what would the CME's rating be if the CME had actually back-stopped MFG clients using their $8 Billion client guarantee fund? "
Who would have known the CME has a $8bil client guarantee fund. Heaven forbid they actually use it to backstop clients funds lost through the MFG debacle. That money is there for their bonus pool, not their stinking clients!
The COMEX dick is shriveling, hahahahahaha! Die a wretched death and let gold and silver have real unfettered price discovery!!!
when they die I'll put one of my beloved silver maples over each one of their eyes and a pair of blythe's soiled bloomers in their mouths.
Well, you have put your finger on it, have you not? Price discovery of PMs in terms of fiat is what the PTB want. True price discovery with a free monetary system involves the voluntary exchange using whatever medium parties agree upon. In a truly free market that would except fiat within, oh, about a nanosecond. Historically, gold and silver have been money metals because they have proven utility in this (and other) realms. Real money cannot be traced and is never foisted on the people at the point of a gun.
To get back to your statement, the price discovery of gold and silver will be the disappearance of fiat scrip. See if Tyler agrees with that.
They want more speculators now so they can keep up the pretense of a functioning market. I wonder if it will work?
I hope it does. That will give me more time to accumulate silver at low, low prices (where anything beneath $100 is "low, low" and anything beneath $1000 is "low").
Many are the fools who don't see the disfunction in this market. Let them bleat and scream. Just don't listen to them. Buy silver if you are young, gold if you are old, and take delivery ASAP. Never sell them for dollars.
But, but, but, aren't ALL silver buyers and holders automatically "bagholders" and the slaughtered victims of "silver pumpers"? Even regardless of when, or at what price, they purchased silver? And won't they ALWAYS and forever be "bagholders", no matter how high the price (and more importantly, the value) of silver rises in the future?
Trav, Trav, please coordinate!
"I am not programmed to respond in that area."
We ARE bagholders. Our bags are full of silver. It's a heavy burden, to be certain, but I wouldn't trade it for anything at market values just now.
Buy and die.
Must be even worse out there than ZH is willing to report?
Just how freakin' bad is it out there? Someone should check police reports for NY and ask how many dealer / brokers are reported missing.
Volume must be so low, the brokers are grasping for air? Volume so low, brokers are becoming anemic?
I ain’t got no silver, I ain’t got no gold
In the white sheet winter, with its dawn so cold
you know I froze, in sun
I ain’t got no silver, I ain’t got no gold
in dead street daylight, and shadow
and in a dark so cold, and calm
I’m all callow and gone
I ain’t got no silver, I ain’t got no gold
in the dead heat daydream of marrow
and in a thought so cold, as alms
I’ll follow and fawn
Chris Bathgate.
ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT ALERT: Michael Pettis' blog was suspended and I do not think it was by who you think (I do believe it was Chinese Authorities) !!!
More honest and free speach blobbed-up by the repressive, crypto-fascist, running dog imperialist Chinese citizenism regime.
As Stoolman Mousy Dung famously stated in his Miniscule Scarlet Publication: "All repression and running dog crypto-fascism flows from the barrel of Chinese citizenism".
step away from the crackpipe...
step away from the crackpipe...
Ooops, pulling on the dragons tail.
The People's Liberation Army (PLA, a.k.a. Chinese Government) doesn't like free speech, individual rights, individual thinking, or capital they don't control.
Too bad most of American industry and government are in bed with them, eh?
the monster needs fresh meat. rather buy at a flea market
i buy physical.
Something wicked this way comes.
Let's examine:
1. The short positions in silver and gold have been drastically reduced, and the big boys are getting on the long side.
2. PAGE is coming online soon and they will allow foreign accounts (arbitrage).
3. Margin rates decreased.
4. The vix jumping.
5. Two million ounces of silver flying in and out of the dealer's vault.
http://www.silvergoldsilver.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=406&Itemid=9
I do not know what is coming our way (Iran, QE, etc), but something is on its way. Needless to say, the spring will be a very interesting time.
+1 Herbaliser
Lyndon LaRouche suspects it will be thermonuclear war. Long iodine tablets, lead vests and geiger counters?
Plus sun block and shades.
Dosimeters was much more useful in a nuclear scenario than geiger counters. Most geigers has too low of a range, and won't tell you that you're dead in 3 hours. A good dosimeter will tell you to get the hell out and provide a good idea if you're going to get sick or be fine.
People still use the Chicago Mercantile Exchange?
They still go there to buy drugs in the washroom.
Only if they have the memory retention of a goldfish.
The word "brokerage" can be broken down into the words "broke" + "rage".
Discuss amongst yourselves.
I love coffee talk.
Maybe another broker is about to go down. When MF imploded remember all the position transfers with the missing money ? Perhaps they're doing this to make things easier on those who are trying to sort of the mess ?
we're reducing the gigawatts needed to get you back to the futures. believe us, lightning can strike the same place twice!
Those $2000 fraudclosure settlement checks are gonna be issued as trading credits at the CME as part of Hopie's new 'I Scratch Wall Street's Back...uhhh.... and They Scratch Mine' program.
And you thought Dubya had a good head for business!
I wonder how many people were taking delivery because they don't trust the CME any longer?
I only take delivery.
Who the fuck CARES what CME is doing any more. They are a bunch of lying, filthy whores. To hell with them all. The CME is a filthy crack house whose pimps roll the well off customers. Now the customers know and are staying away. All of a sudden its, "Oh, pls you idiot investers, PLEEEAAASSe come back...we didn't mean to be bad on you fuckers, honest!"
Burn, Bitchz, Burn
This is WAY TOO LATE TO REMOVE THE DAMAGE they did on the inital margin hike, that memory is burned in to anyones mind that bot SI / slv or like their off at 50 an OZ. the CME is getting desperate to increase volume.
This is WAY TOO LATE TO REMOVE THE DAMAGE they did on the inital margin hike, that memory is burned in to anyones mind that bot SI / slv or like their off at 50 an OZ. the CME is getting desperate to increase volume. Why know they can pull the rug out anytime they want to, but getting people back in it again will be harder then they think!
I agree with Tyler that it is short term bullshit until proven otherwise. Just a chance to hike them later and short the shit out of physical, esp silver.
Chicago.....
Isn't that where that criminal Obama is from.....?
OH...WRONG COUNTRY.
You might be a terrorist if you don't buy paper silver from the CME group...
j.p whoreagain didn't mean to clawback, honest.
Another great post, Tyler.
I remember years back before zero hedge when you used to bring great content to GIM (goldismoney.com).
Several of those clicky bastards would gang up on you. Then you started zerohedge and refrenced it a couple times and they really piled on you.
I knew back then you were a top poster on that site. And several times took your side (not need of corse as you were more than able to best those tards).
Wedll just who the fuck has the last laugh now? They dont dare speak your name or rarely link your your site, lest they feel like the little bitches they are. Pathetic gim site.
good for you T.
Went to my favorite pawn shop this afternoon and some joker had just bought almost all of the junk silver. I wanted some of that.
He should have waited about a week.
2012 2012 2012 2012
2012 2012 2012 2012 2012 2012
...and BOOM!
Iran
to
shit
paper
for food.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIrehaK5Jks
For those that trade paper, or the electronic facsimile thereof...note that Spot Gold 50dma is crossing the 200dma tonight...that is called the Death Cross. At the same time the price tested the rising channel from the Dec 29 low...the bears only have to best $1,729 ish now to have a party. For you stackers, watch it and be ready.
Or, gold finds support here and bounces, avoiding the Death Cross and staying in the rising channel. Paper traps for bulls and bears.
Someone hit the wrong button.,,,decrease instead o what they wanted...an increase.
The big boyz are all in (physical) now. They'll run her (paper market ) up again till everone and their brother are elbowing eachother in the face to buy old silver dimes and quarters, then they'll get out of underneath her (physical) at a profit and drop her (paper market) to her knees again (profit by shorting paper, bringing physical price down too), then they'll get back into physical again.
Rinse and repeat.
They profit when it goes up and profit when it goes down.
I suggest you do too unless you like to lose money.
Just remember that once they start printing non-interest bearing confederate notes and people start the change over, it will not be a good time to be in paper dollars.
You can make profit off a trade either way as long you mind your cents in the spread between Bid and Ask. But 10 coints wont cut it, more like 100 to 1000 of them.
MF Global torpedoed the paper metals markets. ETFs are a hard sell, and should be. The word of the brokers is only as good as the regulations. Since the brokerages can comingle investor funds and wipe their investors out, investors don't know what they're getting, in that brothel. Whatever they thought they were getting, rolling over face to face with a pig has to be a very negative experience. The margins could be halved again from where they are now. There still isn't any trust in the commodities markets.
http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/
Paper = BURN BABY BURN!
Metals = Don't buy more than you can lift and carry! If it's Silver, sell into Gold coins. Easier that way.
MFGlobal + Bernanke = Pan Asian Gold Exchange (PAGE) = return to GOLD as worlds reserve currency = no more petroleum in exchange for worthless little pieces of shitty paper = gas @ $20/gallon = got a garden and solar panels?
Sky chief see's a new rule coming around the fourth turn in all commodity markets and it be the delivery rule. So if thee can't take delivery of say crude oil, soy bean or gilla monster testicles your days of spectacle speculation be over.... over
I am a man of simple assertions and in the depth of curruption that is engulfing our fiat driven economic model. Holding shiney metal is your best hope ...not guaranteed buit your best hope...live with it...
Let's see. On Feb 8 Ann Barnhardt posts this:
Then on the 9th the CME dramatically cuts margins on just about everything.
But the margins are determined solely by the need for market stability, right? Nothing to do with naked fear or psychological manipulation.
CME to investors: "No no! Please don't leave now, look at all the great deals we have for you! This time it will be different, believe us baby! Would we lie (cheat, steal, defraud, manipulate, evaporate, etc) to you?"
Gold has been crashing since the CME cut margins.
In other news, I have lost much weight since I started eating like a pig.
Never give a sucker an even break.
we few, we happy few, we band of silver holders !
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