This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

CME Hikes Gold Margins By 22% And Gold Drops by....0.4%, Resumes Climb

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Just after hitting a new all time high of above $1815 in spot gold, the CME immediately sent out a notice to members advising that gold margins for Tier 1 members were increasing by 22% for both initial and maintenance positions, from $4,500 to $5,500. Unfortunately for the CME, this predetermined move was telegraphed to the market weeks ago, and with rumor 57 out of 22 finally turning out correct, this latest move only managed to push gold down modestly, and at last check was once again trading above $1,800. Just like all central bank interventions, which now have a half life between 1 hour and 4 days max, so this latest exchange attempt to subdue prices will fail spectacularly. Naturally, just like in the case of silver, this will merely embolden the CME to proceed with hike after hike, which in turn will kill speculative elements while merely reinforcing the strong hands. End result: in one month gold will be above $2,000 with almost 100% certainty.

In addition, the CME also hiked CHF futures by 443%, Yen futures by 25%, Ruble futures by 36%, as well as TEN, UBE and I3. The only margins that were cut were those of Uranium which dropped from 1320/1200 to 990/900 for initial/maintenance.

CME notice goes out at 6:31 pm, and gold promptly resumes upward climb:

And CME notice:

 

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:18 | 1549217 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

It is time to to put trailing stops on CEF and the like...take some gains but don't be greedy...As for physical in the hand, since when is that for trading???

All calmly typed, might I add, while stroking a tube of kruggers....

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:22 | 1549228 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

IGNORES bitchez.

 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:24 | 1549236 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You clearly are an ignorant fool....now run back to Yahoo or whatever hole you crawled out of.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:26 | 1549239 bankrupt JPM bu...
bankrupt JPM buy silver's picture

Shorts are going to get absolutly tuned tomorow on this hike.  They are in a world of hurt.  Maybe there is some method to this JPM $2500?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:29 | 1549251 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hence the trailing stops....

No, $2500 may be for real, but there is a host of new longs, weak hands that need to be flushed out of Au... GSR seems to have serious resistance at 45, I look for it to return to 35 by year end...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:44 | 1549319 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Like so many interventions, this tactic is losing its oomph. Traders have learned that they can ignore these clowns if they are wiling to weather turbulence for a couple of days.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:48 | 1549337 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

It all depends on who has fresh cash and how their other positions are levered....Look, I've seen stuff like this before, Ag not so long ago. Au has gone parabolic, tread lightly with your tradable assets, as for the real stuff, sit back and watch the show, accumalate on their knock down, my gut tells me that Au will retest (and pass with flying colors) $1700

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:16 | 1549436 Thomas
Thomas's picture

As lies go, that one is a big one.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 07:52 | 1550159 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

margin hikes no longer effective, inverse waterfall in sight.

http://azizonomics.com/2011/08/10/how-high-will-gold-go/ 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:23 | 1549462 trav7777
trav7777's picture

have you not been paying attention to the rest of the market?  shit is absolutely cratering.

You trade with a trailing stop in this volatility, you'll be stopped out.  Better to spend the money on a downside put for insurance.

The CHF has gone even more apeshit than gold

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:29 | 1549488 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

CEF doesn't have options.... Watch the action in the producing Juniors... years of hard research is starting to pay off. Energy MLPs have weathered this very well.

All my liquid position are options, but I keep converting the profits into physical

Speaking of apeshit, see the latest WTI-Brent spread?? Hit $24 today... something is seriously amiss.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:34 | 1549508 DosZap
DosZap's picture

WTI-Brent Spread, yes, odd, very odd.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 00:31 | 1549851 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

 

 

The SPR release provided a location for JPM shorts.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 00:38 | 1549867 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

That is definately part of it.... to what end, I have no idea... Prices at the pump are tracking Brent.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 06:39 | 1550056 malikai
malikai's picture

That Brent/WTI spread is fucking unbelieveable. Right now I'm printing a ratio of 1.28! I'm seriously tempted to jump in on the compression trade, but there's no liquid options for Brent over here, so I'm holding back, for now.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 07:55 | 1550165 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

I have no idea what is causing this ratio, but I see no good reason that whatever is causing it will give you an arbitrage opportunity in the immediate to short term.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 10:02 | 1550631 malikai
malikai's picture

I encourage you to have a look at the spread/ratio volatility since February, when the serious drift began. Daily close is sufficient to see what I'm talking about.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:09 | 1549416 T1000
T1000's picture

People don't realize this is a total transition from paper to metal; it's like the economy is a transformer. This isnt a bubble, it's the new reality.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:17 | 1549440 redpill
redpill's picture

Correct. Issuing "margin hikes" on the now-defacto world reserve currency is not like issuing it on a commodity.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:17 | 1549441 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yes, I agree to a point...

Very little stuff that I trade is real gold... I have been slowly turning paper profits into physical for 5 years now....

What you describe is a transition not an event....If Sept 2008 was the first inning, we are now in the top of the sixth.

Like I said, I ain;t shorting, just putting on trailing stops.... pigs always get slaughtered.  

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:24 | 1549464 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Au-bots, roll out.. 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:27 | 1549627 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Decpticons still fits for their archenemy.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:00 | 1549579 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

I'd supplement by stating that it's a transition from paper to real.  Physical stores of many things are gaining in value, albeit in a less visible way than PMs. The purchasing power transfer to PMs will lend to a second phase, in which scarcity premiums for staples will skyrocket as the dislocation from the currency transition sets in.  Purchasing power wins the day post the Big Reset.

I'm not a trader, and leave it to others to collect those arbitrage gains.  As an 'accumulater', however, I am very comfortable with the stockpile of physical things within a sand wedge of where I'm currently sitting. 

New reality is right.  The return of real currency is not the bubble...what it's replacing is.

 

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 00:06 | 1549814 T1000
T1000's picture

Yes, it's a transition from paper to real. What we're seeing now is the decoupling from the old reality to the new reality.

TPTB are sending a clear signal to people that the new value is gold. Value only exists within the human mind. They're training the human animal to devalue paper and to value gold. Like in animal farm, Two legs good, four legs bad.

Gold good, paper bad.

"Au-bots, roll out!" love it.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 04:08 | 1550002 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

Exactamundo.

The world of stops & shorts & hedges is the old world; intrinsically worthless, only leads to extinction.

 

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 08:26 | 1550235 SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

Sure the premiums for staples are through the roof, but did you notice that paper clips aren't available at any price?  God knows what kind of paperwork is coming down the line from the secret government!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:11 | 1549598 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Watching the price action in gold for the past couple of weeks has been really funny.  While Obama and his BFF Boehner were putting on a show to distract Americans in order to pick their pockets, the world has decided to step in and fuck them over by driving up the price of gold.  Justice is being served!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:17 | 1549438 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

Flak,

A week ago I might have agreed with you. But today's action shows a complete decoupling of the HUI from the broad equities markets. (And about bloody time, too!) I'm thinking there's not going to be much more weak-hand-flushing going on any time soon in the gold market.

Yeah, I said it: "This time it's different."

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:19 | 1549451 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Like my posts have said, don't be greedy, be ready to take profits on tradeable assets...

It is different, but not quite yet....

By the way, it is about bloody fucking time that the miners started to move...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:43 | 1549667 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

I dunno man...they could go absolutly apeshit too.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:49 | 1549678 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

All the same be careful. These crooks will stop at nothing. Don't over leverage. What the CME is doing is attempting to put on a show for the average guy who has started to look into golds direction due to headlines but does not fully understand it's drivers yet. Gold has gone CRAZY (Real money does in this enviorment). JPM and Goldman raised the outlook for gold for this very purpose I believe. They wanted to cram GLD full of sheeple and smack them across the face to teach the sheeple a lesson for even looking at gold. Only 1-1.5% of the American people really understand golds role. Lets just hope enough of the "newbies" don't give a crap and are hedging disaster as they should!

BTD!!!!!

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 00:10 | 1549821 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

What do you think Paulson is going to do with his GLD shares?

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 02:15 | 1549948 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Looks to me like he will save his funds by buying gold, not selling it.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:23 | 1549233 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Polishing an '84 Morgan on my pantleg . .

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:26 | 1549240 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Nice, I don't have much old stuff...  1882 Newfoundland $2 gold piece is the only comparable (1/10 oz)... Got a mittful of Peace Dollars though (paid $12 a piece for them).... 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:47 | 1549544 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Yeah I just got a few these and I've got to say I love the historical vibe:  "One Dollar."

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 03:25 | 1549983 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I got my first one a few months ago.  `83.  I love it too it's my only one but it reminds me there was a time before the Fed, for one thing.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:13 | 1549600 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Polishing an '84 Morgan on my pantleg . .

I've been carrying a '90 Morgan in my pocket for the last five years. Whenever a cashier at the supermarket or hardware store does the rudimentary authenticity test on a 50- or 100-dollar bill, I tell them, "it's all fake." I then show them the Morgan and tell them that it's probably the first real money they've seen all day.

BTW, if you just carry that Morgan in your pocket for a few weeks, it'll polish itself and develop a gleaming shine.

 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 23:45 | 1549784 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

I used to carry a Mexican Liberdad in my wallet. But every so often when I'd flip it open, the Molly Ringwaldesque bubblegum popping cashier would roll her eyes at me "like he really needs that big a condom!".

So now I carry a 1/10oz eagle doing a better job at impression management.

When silver is 100 bucks an ounce maybe I'll switch back to the Liberdad.

 

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 03:03 | 1549975 zhandax
zhandax's picture

I have been carrying a $100,000,000,000,000 Zim note in my wallet for the last few years for shock value.  Tonight I gave it to our local version of Robo who sorely needed a lesson in real value and told him to take it home and Google it.  Now if I can just remember where I stashed the other 19 when I bought them on eBay and they would still buy a cab ride in Harare.....

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:39 | 1549293 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

You call it "a tube  of kruggers?" Never heard that one.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:45 | 1549328 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Now, now, take your mind out of the gutter.....

My handle ain't Gold Dick, ~1.25 lbs of swinging meat would make the ladies run away screaming....

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:47 | 1549673 KowPie
KowPie's picture

"My handle ain't Gold Dick, ~1.25 lbs or swinging meat would make the ladies run away screaming..."

Hmmmm.... 1.25 lbs x 16 x 28 =560 grams.... 526 grams of gold (roughly) 2.75"long by 1.5" circumference.... I think they would be laughing more so than screaming. Unless of course they knew it was solid gold, and they thought that it was just the "root" of the stash, then they would see 12" and a Bugatti Veyron in their future.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:51 | 1549682 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You are mixing metaphors.....

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:58 | 1549700 KowPie
KowPie's picture

Along with drinks!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:22 | 1549457 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Ten Hail Mary's and ten Our Fathers, and the stroking will be forgiven. PS Strong work!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:22 | 1549458 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Diminishing MARGINal Returns.

 

Blastoff Bitchezzzz!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:26 | 1549474 WhatCouldGoWrong
WhatCouldGoWrong's picture

Tyler,... OK, this margin increase has been telegraphed for some time and I think this is just the beginning. What jumped out in your post was the 443% increase in margin rates on the Swiss Franc. I found that absolutely unbelievable (but, hey, we live in unbelievable times). I checked the CME/CBOT site and found no reference to that kind of hike. The CME release you posted with the short article lists SF futures going from 3780 intial to 5400 intial (with corresponding mnt. margin hike for specs.). This is a 43% hike not a 443% hike....

a fat-finger mistake?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:34 | 1549509 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I'm trying to think what the Swiss make that the US is utterly dependent on. Hmmmm. still thinking. still thinking. still thinking. tennis stars! there! i came up with one!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:44 | 1549531 DosZap
DosZap's picture

disabledvet 

 

CHOC O LATE.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 03:29 | 1549985 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Banks to hide money?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:17 | 1549605 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Yup, people here crowed far too soon.  After the intial drop and bounce, gold is going straight down overseas now (10:20 pm EST).  All red bars, one after another.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 23:18 | 1549740 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

Well, ok, $1788 isn't $1820, but damn, still ain't down all that much.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:20 | 1549220 DutchRollMode
DutchRollMode's picture

Cue end of world playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9s18rUaubc

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:52 | 1549349 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Dude, they rock!

Try these guys, they rock too.

End of all hope lyrics - Nightwish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84aIX8UPklI

 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:33 | 1549506 Gunther
Gunther's picture

sounds inspired by Carmina Burana from Carl Orff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEllLECo4OM

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:21 | 1549224 caerus
caerus's picture

woohoo the margin hike thread!  im sooooo in!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:31 | 1549226 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i thought the 1-hour-to-4-days for bankster intervention was the full life of the tweak

maybe i should re-calibrate my bankster tweak-o-meter?  they have something that lasts: Eight Days A Week??

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:21 | 1549616 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

i thought the 1-hour-to-4-days for bankster intervention was the full life of the tweak

Soon the full duration of the tweak will be about as long as it takes for the bowl to refill after it's been flushed. The interventions amount to nothing more than the Bernank jiggling the handle.

 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:22 | 1549227 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Morons to the right, morons to the left.
Is their a margin hike on Lib BS yet?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:22 | 1549230 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Gold is no longer a trade. It's a fight for physical Gold to fill the coffers before everyone figures out it's now the worlds reserve currency.

Margin hikes mean nothing now. Pay me later or pay me now, it all comes out the same at expiry. The game has changed and not everyone has figured that out yet, to their ultimate disaster.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:36 | 1549281 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Jeffery Christains 2011 year end target for gold........ $1420

haha

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:04 | 1549359 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

See Excellon today? Released their latest quarter and smacked it out of the park... Highest grade silver mines in the world and new drill results at 1400 g/t... 

Edit:  should have added their lift rate was $3.27 per oz (IIRC)..... hell thats only 127 pre-82 pennies... Where's Mathman when you need him??

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:37 | 1549514 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Edit:  should have added their lift rate was $3.27 per oz (IIRC).....

Bullshit. Mines are big operations. They produce chemicals and all sorts of metals. You can run the cost analyzis on any part of the balance sheet. The sulfuric acid can appear to cost nothing to get or the silver can appear to cost nothing to get but when it's all said and done lead is way overpriced and uranium is way too cheap. It's all in how you present the byproducts numbers.

Which is why semi precious stones such as tourmaline and jade, etc are so dirt cheap. They are simply byproduct sales which is what silver has done. You have a process cost for the gold and silver and gold has ended up payng that process cost for nearly 80 years.

Believing any data from a mining company is as big a mistake as taking a central bankers word. You are being told this fantastic news and bullshit lift rate to get you to slobber over a unsecured share stake in the mine which if you bite you'll be hooked deboned and grilled. You simply must understand that anyone in the mining industry is a complete jackass liar.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:56 | 1549569 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yeah... your point is made. The exception proves the rule though.

The lift rate has to do with Pb-Zn by products, 7% and 1% grades, ~90% recovery. Did I mention that their ores are 780 g/t?  Don't have to move alot of rock to be profitable....

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 03:18 | 1549979 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

The stock price is the stock price and you can make money if you go in for quick 2 or 3 baggers at the right time but if you believe 780g/t is a valid average number you have ore in your head. It happened once on 5 tons in a row and is spit out as a "fact".

Mines don't work those ores at these prices. They cost average YOU. YOU don't cost average them.  At high prices they work the shittiest ore they can find.

And heraclitus said men dig tons of rock for ounces of gold. He didn't say they dig tons of rock for 10 or 12 lbs of silver. I don't know what the hell is wrong with these miners. But they seem to want to believe theres a 30:1 or 40:1 gold silver ratio. All of them spout the same fooking crazy. Or want us to believe silver sulfide is triple 9 silver.

Guaranteed bullshit.

Like I said all you gotta do is read history. The economy has to work on every level. And when copper prices went ballistic in 2007 you knew it had gold and silver on life support.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 10:57 | 1550701 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Edit: Damn... table didn't work...

http://tmx.quotemedia.com/article.php?newsid=43748019&qm_symbol=EXN

I stand corrected on the lift costs... was $3.74 not $3.27

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:48 | 1549675 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

The stock was up 25% today. It doesn't matter if its bullshit, take your double or triple or whatever  you have and move onto the next one.

I have made waay more then I have lost dealing in these miners.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 00:39 | 1549816 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I'll gladly post some prints on Excellon.....the old timers here know my track record

Go dig out my old posts about FRG when it was $2.45... last I heard it was taken out by Newmont at $14 ($CAD, when the $CAD was $1.05...)... or IPT.CA when it was 0.22....

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:06 | 1549405 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Long John for the the win!!!!

He is dead on, over and over again.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 09:23 | 1550439 topshelfstuff
topshelfstuff's picture

That sums it up, and as for this part, """The game has changed and not everyone has figured that out yet""", I would add, IMHO, Americans are themost unaware of all the G-20 countries. Expecting similar type [series of] moves when Margin became the Hammer for Silver, continuing until the desired results are seen, I would use the inexpensive Insurance of DZZ, a Double Inverse on Gold, currently Under $5.00

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:23 | 1549231 PicassoInActions
PicassoInActions's picture

They never raise margins on OIL, criminals. We need to send a cleaning team to CME or procecute them for the treason.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:13 | 1549599 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

That's how uncle benny exports some of the money he prints. If the price goes down he can't export inflation as quickly.

Why don't we have an energy policy ? Where is all the green energy they have been spouting for 40 years ?

Why do we have a trade imbalance ? Why don't we use our vast NG reserves to produce energy?

The answer is in the first sentance...........................

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:24 | 1549234 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

They don't have all the gold that they put out in paper and are doing everything possible to keep people from it.  They keep pushing and pushing and the gold keeps going up by 30 or 40 dollars a day.  They can't keep up fast enough without them essentially saying we don't have the gold.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:25 | 1549237 cpnscarlet
cpnscarlet's picture

It is amazing how the Au completely ignored this. Have we won in the gold market?

Written while cleaning my new AR-15 LE Carb

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:31 | 1549259 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I've starting thinking about opening a 500 round tin of 7.62 X 39 just in case I need it in a hurry.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:27 | 1549478 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

The game is to bunker and to never show a face that is well fed, or a PM that indicates you have other PMs.  There was a ZH boy from the former Soviet Union and he wrote that the kiss of death was to show you had anything at all.  That's when the gangs kidnapped your kids and took everything.

I have an AK-47 chambered in 12-gauge.  It can fire 8 rounds of single O buck in 2,1 seconds.  That equates to 96 .30 caliber pellets going down range in 2.1 seconds.  That's good enough for me.  I have a few other nasty boys, but I am a man of peace.  Also, I don't anticipate engaging anyone at range, so shotguns are for me.  It's all about waiting out the bad times.  You don't need an arsenal for what is coming, you need to join with your neighbors, stack PMs, and have a boatload of food to wait out things.  (Caveat:  If you live within one days walk from a major urban city, you need an arsenal, or a bug out bag.)

On the other hand, TPTB don't benefit from bedlam.  They have had 4 years to prepare for a new financial system, and they have no intention of letting chaos shake them loose from their postion of power.  The bad times will be intense, but short in induration.  

All you need is some ability to enforce the law, feed yourself, buy stuff, and transport your net worth into the new system.  We will not experience Mad Max times that unshakle us from the parasites that control us.  TPTB have their survival well in hand.  (However, this is a highly leveraged situation in flux with no historical precedent, so don't blame me if I am completely wrong and a zombie eats your face).

The relationships you have with the people around you are much more important in a social meltdown than your personal arsenal of toys.  If your neighborhood binds, you are safe from the next larger fish. 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 23:08 | 1549718 NewThor
NewThor's picture

If I wasn't chin deep in 10 other movies....

I'd write a movie about a group who hacked ZH

got all the gold holders addresses and then had slick plans

to steal all their gold.

Oceans Infinity Bitchez!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 23:20 | 1549744 Selah
Selah's picture

 

AK-47 in 12 gauge?

You must mean Saiga 12. I wish I had one.

But do you only have an 8 round magazine? Do yourself a favor and get an MD-20 drum or two. They have 30 round drums, however the 20 round is heavy enough, but it gets light in a hurry! (according to what I've read).

 

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 09:13 | 1550383 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Saiga-12S are prone to failure to eject issuesI've had mine worked on and it is reliable, but the bigger mags tend to add to unreliability.  The 12 round stick mags are big enough. 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:33 | 1549486 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Like the man said - "there has never been a meltdown where PMs didn't reclaim their rightful place of value, and never has the marauding horde worn assless chaps."

 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:32 | 1549497 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

One of my obsessive compulsive habits is to load bags of magazines. Don't wanna be loading when the SHTF.  I've heard its not good on the spring to store a fully loaded mag tho, best to load 27-28 in a 30 rounder.  Have you guys seen this yet?

http://www.defensereview.com/micor-defense-leader-50-ultra-compact-light...

Man portable bullpup 50 BMG, Mmmmmm. Going to have to raid the cookie jar when this bad boy comes out.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:38 | 1549515 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

For more up close and personal encounters, Kel Tec has a new bullpup 12gauge coming out that holds 15 rds.  i think MSR will be about $850.

http://www.impactguns.com/kel-tec-ksg-12-ga-18in-barrel-shotgun-ksg.aspx

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:50 | 1549552 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Thats why I prefer the SKS over the AK. Stripper clips don't have springs and they are cheap. Loading rounds into an SKS is faster than changing a loaded AK magazine and loading AK magazines is a pain in the hands. I can load all 500 rounds in stripper clips and bag them in a harness in less than an hour.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:55 | 1549566 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

It depends upon the gun.  My Sig P220 will spit out anything, but a more finicky gun will balk is the spring gets weak.

A good rule of thumb is to cycle your mags, and don't fully load them.  The lesser tension on the spring will add greater reliability.

The average gunfight is less than 6 feet amd 1.2 seconds.  Rambo thought won't work.  Think more like Andy Griffith getting the good ole boys together and telling the crowds from the city to sit a spell and then move on, cuz we don't have any food either.

Also don't forget simple human charity.  People moving through are real people and need your help.  Also a lot of them can help you if you take the time to learn what they have to offer.  If a real crash happens, you go from being a nothing little pawn, to being a potential hero and a leader.  Don't turn feral.

OK, this isn't a preppers site, TPTB have had four year to engineer a soft landing.  Let's all hope it works.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:20 | 1549613 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

My research has lead me to the conclusion that the best storage is either fully loaded or not loaded at all...  The gist, in most part, is that running rounds through the magazine causes the springs to wear, not keeping tight under pressure...  too many fully loaded 1911 magazines having the dust knocked off of them decades later have been A-OK for me to put much faith in this thesis...  obviously, not much sense in buying a ferrari and putting cheap gas in it...  but still. 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 23:41 | 1549776 RobD
RobD's picture

My research on the subject matches yours. It is the compression-decompression process that causes springs to fail.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 00:20 | 1549836 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I've heard that govt. M-14 20 rounders are rated for indefinite storage full.  Anyway, I've always got at least 4 of those topped off and two 80 round bandoliers with strippers ready.  I love me some M14.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 23:26 | 1549755 Selah
Selah's picture

 

I don't have one, but if I had a Glock, I would want to weaken the spring.  The last couple in a 33 round fun-stick are a bitch even with a speed loader, or so I've read.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:22 | 1549619 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

Don't wanna be loading when the SHTF....

FUCK'N A.... THAT'S SOME GOOD THINKIN' RIGHT THERE.  THAT DONE FIRED ME UP.  GONNA LOAD SOME MAGS 2NITE! BEST TIME TO LOAD MAGS IS BETWEEN 3-4AM WHEN THE GUBBERMINTS SATELITES CAN'T SEE IN MY WINDOWS 2 GOOD.

I ALWAYS KEEP A FULL TANK IN MY CAMARO, 2.  DON'T WANT TO BE FILLIN' ER UP WHEN THE SHTF.

GUNS, BEANS AND CAMAROS! 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 23:05 | 1549712 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Can I glean from your sarcastic disdain that you aren't a gun guy?

 

I hope not.  That way when the marauding hordes are running a train on your wife and setting your house on fire, your best defense will be curling into a ball and shitting yourself.  Pussies like you would be the first ones to expect someone else to save them.

 

FOAD troll, the huff post is missing an idiot.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 23:37 | 1549772 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

The BFG 9000! Oh, yes...

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 00:17 | 1549833 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

That bullpup .50 looks a lot like the Bushmaster M17S.  I sincerely hope the trigger is better on this one - The M17S had some serious issues.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:16 | 1549604 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

If you believe that nothing ever goes straight up forever, then you should expect corrections in the near future.  I don't know how big those corrections will be, but when they come I'll be ready to buy more physical.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:26 | 1549238 caerus
caerus's picture

i myself am going all in on gold shorts... gold shorts

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:29 | 1549253 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Sukker. and I had such high hopes for you.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:32 | 1549258 caerus
caerus's picture

joking dude...i meant gold "short pants" (like in the picture)...ok maybe not so funny...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:34 | 1549270 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Reading comprehension here can sometimes be less than optimum...Hell I knew what it was and I didn't even need to crack the link...  On big gold days the crowd here tends to be less refined.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:38 | 1549290 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Was outside. Couldn't see the color for a link.
Piss off, anyway.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:38 | 1549292 caerus
caerus's picture

you sir, have restored my faith in humanity...cheers!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:31 | 1549495 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

The trouble with links is it takes too long to click on them and sometimes you can't get back to the same point in the thread.  Anyway, I appreciate the humor.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:41 | 1549303 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Now that really pisses me off. Why did you said that? No nead to get personell.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:56 | 1549371 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Would you please acquaint yourself with spell check? Or get me another 18 pack?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:06 | 1549408 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

On days like this, Appleton and Diet Coke (I hate those HFCS hangovers....)

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:28 | 1549483 nmewn
nmewn's picture

We finally have something in common...occasional Appleton and a rising G/S ratio...lol.

Patience fellow travellers.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:36 | 1549513 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Despite our differences, I am sure that you and I could sit down and negotiate some reasonable legislation for the this country. We could do a damn site better than the asshats from either site of the aisle....We have a lot more in common than you might othwerwise believe....

 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:20 | 1549610 nmewn
nmewn's picture

As soon as balance is restored I believe anything possible.

We both agree what we have been witnessing is fascism. We both agree that is evil.

That is a good starting point...maybe over Appletons, Friday. I have some new, borrowed ideas and some time tested old ones ;-)

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:38 | 1549291 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Silver shorts are so much more....antibacterial.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:40 | 1549297 caerus
caerus's picture

lol

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 00:25 | 1549843 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

You're not trying to sell a sanitary skid mark now are you?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:27 | 1549241 BernankeHasHemo...
BernankeHasHemorrhoids's picture

CME are a bunch of cocksucking tools of Obama, Bernanke and Geithner. There needs to be an alternative like the exchange the Chicoms have opened up.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:43 | 1549314 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

The Pan Asian Gold Exchange opens 7-22-11 according to their ads. First for silver and then gold...

They are going to place strict limits on leverage... so they say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt_H3OWxUSY

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 01:05 | 1549893 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

It's amazing that the Chicoms are promising a more free market PM exchange than in the centrally planned USSA. 

IF you remember, I was the one that liquidated my entire holding of fizical silver at the top and shorted it down. 

By doing so, I was able to pick up 10 more oz of Au and buy 150% of my original stash of silver. 

Not this time. The silver buddies stay put. 

So does the gold. 

THIS MONEY SHALL NOT MOVE FROM MY HANDS. 

Not one ounce is leaving my company. Gosh, I just love the yella fella and its lovely silver sisters.  

Last night I figured out how to have sex with my gold. My wife came in the bedroom, and in absolute shock saw me cornholing a tube of gold eagles. 

Blushing, embarrassed, and feeling like I betrayed her, I told her what we paid for them and what our profits were up to. Better, I explained to her how the little yella fellas will be our guardians, helping us tunnel the saved value of our labor through the coming hyperinflationary storm. 

We had a threesome. 

BUY THIS FUCKING DIP. 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:27 | 1549242 angmikey
angmikey's picture

Aren't they supposed to do this every day for a week or so? Maybe by the time the margin is up 100% people will sell.

 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:32 | 1549244 MoneyWise
MoneyWise's picture

What CME should really do for All commodities trading is to implement penny-stock rule, which is CASH f* ONLY.. ZERO % leverage. Period. Wanna buy Gold, Wheat, Oil, whatever, Pay f* CASH. End of story, (like we all do, buying physicals) then we'll see what they are all really worth. How about that? No leverage what so ever, - CASH ONLY, game over. And maybe then you going to pay less at the pump or carton of Milk in your local store..

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:49 | 1549342 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

You show a remarkable amount of ignorance there $wise.  Some of the bigger players in the futures markets are the "smallish" independent farmers.  Take away their ability to hedge against losses/lock in profits between planting and harvest and you're just one small drought/flood/tornado/dust bowl away from ag commodity prices exploding not dropping. 

Also, what makes you think that your behavior is any different?  You're buying gold, why?  Because you're a speculator and you're speculating that the price you pay today ($1800) will be less than the price of your gold tomorrow.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:44 | 1549522 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

No.  I am not a specualator in gold, I am a patient survivor of the old order.  I sat out plenty of speculative bubbles and now have a price run powered by an irreversable insolvency in the USG and drop in the USD, combined with the central banks of the world clutching at their last lift raft (now that they have sucked the blood out of the nation states) GOLD.  They need something, anything to inflate in price, so they tried stocks, but it petered out after two years.  The final inflation will be gold,  They have been acquiring it for some time and need to inflate the price to survive.  There is NO OTHER CHOICE FOR THEM.  Gold hasn't even reacted to speculation yet.  It is going to ramp like nothing in history because it is not being driven by speculaton.

You know what?  Sit it out, I dare you.  I am definitely not a gambler and I call bullshit to your call that anyone in gold is just speculating.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:28 | 1549246 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Typical. It's only volatility in Gold and Silver that we are 'saved' from. How utterly transparent.

Since when was a rise in price volatile. Gold's move has been no more than orderly, quicker than most expected, but not volatile. 

We'll be getting all the 'over sold' shit too. Baring in mind gold is still about $600 dollars below it's inflation adjusted level, I'd say we have a long, long way to go.

This doesn't include the rampant manipulation, but of course, that's allowed.

TPTB trying to keep everyone away from Gold and especially Silver as a safe haven as it will destroy fiat.

Bring it on.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:51 | 1549344 breezer1
breezer1's picture

$600 below the 'official inflation adjusted level'.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:57 | 1549378 MoneyWise
MoneyWise's picture

And it's another Bull*S.. In 1990+++++
Gold was averaging 400+- you wanna tell me that
real inflation (Prices for goods) are actually 5x since then?
Inflation adjusted my Ass.. Keep dreaming.. This has
nothing to do with Inflation.. This is due to world wide fiat crisis and lock of the coordinated actions, that's all.. We'll see, we'll see...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:43 | 1549529 False Capital
False Capital's picture

Remove 20 years of productivity gains and prices probably would be approaching 5x higher. Banksters love stealing shit without anyone noticing.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:50 | 1549554 Cdad
Cdad's picture

In the very near term, inflation does not seem to be the driving issue.  The QE2 inflation bubble has now officially burst.   Grains have come off.  Oil has come off.  Silver.  

Longer term, I suspect you are correct.  In the meantime, gold has been rising on the safety trade, along with T bills, Swissy, McDonalds, etc.  I think that portion of gold's run, approximately $200's worth, could come off quite quickly.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:43 | 1549527 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

what's up with all this "destroy fiat" shit? if we have a gold standard THE PAPER IS THEN CONVERTIBLE TO GOLD. Again..."gold is money." having said that--a "fiat free world" is...well...really out there man. And i guarantee you if gold drops 800's tomorrow you'd be saying "cash is KING man. cash is the KING." now here's something to get you chill bro...CHILL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ&feature=player_detailpage

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 00:20 | 1549835 Man Bear Pig
Man Bear Pig's picture

The new "gold standard" will be unprecedented in history, and will not resemble the traditional gold standard. FOFOA writes about "freegold", which is founded on the idea that the value of currencies (ie. exchange rates) should not be determined relative to other "floating" currencies. The value of each nation's currency should be determined along a "standard" scale, independent of each other. All that is needed for a universal scale is a common reference point. Freegold argues that the demand for gold is founded on gold filling the role of the reference point... and no, not because of "tradition"; because it is the most suited for the job... what else can every currency be measured against? are the alternatives more or less convenient than gold?

If gold drops to 800 tomorrow, you'll hear "physical is king"; cash is for suckers. Gold has already been chosen to fill the role of global currency reference point (aka. reserve currency). There is no stopping it. The paper markets however... they will see gold fall far below 800 as the reality that the gold is undeliverable sinks in. In the meanwhile, those holding physical will find themselves holding the most valuable objects in the world. In fact, gold IS value. IT is what everything else is measured against. IT has ABSOLUTE value. The central banks have known this for decades. This isn't just another leg in "the cycle", this is a complete transformation of how we perceive value. Paradigm shift... dude... like, far out... yeah.

There is so much information on the subject, I can only scratch the surface. I highly recommend reading FOFOA (www.fofoa.blogspot.com), as long as you are able to keep an open mind.

 

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 01:08 | 1549898 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

You know I really like FOFOA but his freegold theory is what currently exists. Paper does one thing and one things only, it obfuscates the truth. As long as people can force contracts to be paid in paper they will pay in paper over gold and as long as their is fiat money it will be forced on people to be used by the people's respective governments. 

No offense but the only way to end this shit is to stop using paper period. Freegold exists today, you just don't realize because you think some how rules would be followed, but only in fantasy land. As long as paper can be used to purchase gold, gold will never exist in a free market.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 02:23 | 1549953 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

100-1 fractional reserve bullion banking, ponzi futures markets and pie in the sky ETF`s.

Doesn`t sound like freegold to me.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:29 | 1549252 jomama
jomama's picture

isn't it strange that silver hasn't moved?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:38 | 1549288 FreeMartinArmstrong
FreeMartinArmstrong's picture

wrong metal

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:57 | 1549375 breezer1
breezer1's picture

an interesting article on the wiemar valuations of gold and silver.

http://www.safehaven.com/article/5188/a-tale-from-weimar-germany

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:06 | 1549410 jomama
jomama's picture

this is more to what i was getting at.  thanks.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:39 | 1549296 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

No it isn't, not for the gold only crew.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:52 | 1549352 jomama
jomama's picture

seems odd to me, but what do i know.

http://chart.ly/obpt8pr

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:51 | 1549348 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

it's moved.  been all over the map the past week.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:11 | 1549424 DosZap
DosZap's picture

jomama,@20:29,

Dudeski, it's starting it's engines now..........................

 a day or so ago,$37.43/$39.50 now, the higher Au goes, the faster it will take off.

Expect it to be $55.00-$75.00+ by year end.

The Po mans Gold, will be a lightning bolt..........better catch the train, if'n you aint on it.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:27 | 1549476 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Purely a guess on my part. Silver has not been able to put its head over the 39.50 mark without getting beat back. At the same time, the shorts don't seem able to push it lower. My guess is that there's massive short covering taking place behind the scenes. How? I've no idea but these are very sophisticated thieves we're talkng about. I'm sure they can pull it off on paper. As I said, only a guess; I could be flat ass wrong; wouldn't be the first time.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 21:39 | 1549512 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

hi jomama!  whazzup w/ AG?

yep. but since may's downturn and susequent partial recovery, many experts have sold their silver positions either in part or in whole, and have advised others that silver is not gold, for pete's sake!

even @ zH we read comments like:  gold is the ultimate (historical, international, agreed-upon, &tc) "reserve currency"  not silver!  so, to traders, silver has lost its luster.  but maybe in another few weeks...?  days?  hours?  who knowZ?

actually, silver has moved--up to almost $42, back down to #37+ (yest) and up about two bux from that, now.  with many declines in various "assets" silver has held up ok, here.  so far.  there is still real resistance, particularly above the price we are now seeing. 

the last up-leg, from the low 30's, was accompanied by a nice up-leg in the miners, which may have now recovered, stabilized, from that last awesome body blow.  the miners did ok today, even with the -500 for the dow30.  and, silver came up to a safer area on the chart, above ~$39.08. 

so, there hasn't been overwhelming liquidation @ c. $40-42, but selling, and some bounce-back.  if gold is tough to figure, silver can be impossible, and i don't recommend trading, anyhow, just getting whatever you can into PMs and out of paper products and FRNs.

in the past, tyler has questioned the strength of the swiss franc, if i understand him, on the basis of the SNB's balance sheet.  if you google "swiss national bank balance sheet" you will see a great zH article from 6.8.11! 

my interpretation:  if you think the CHF is "safe" compared to silver-in-hand, you are delusional, as were people buying stocks b/c of "earnings" and a "recovery" perhaps. 

i mean if the euro is in trouble and the SNB is holding other currencies as "reserves" on an expanded (50% in the last month, according to tyler, 6.8.11) balance sheet, who ya gonna call?  ghostbusters? 

how about simon black repoting the Big Mac Index over $17.00 USD in switzerland, yesterday? 

i guess the folks in europe trust the swiss more than the EU, but they trust gold, more.  personally, i would trust silver more, too.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:08 | 1549592 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

As gold goes higher, fewer every day people can 'afford' it and will instead head to silver.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 23:05 | 1549711 saulysw
saulysw's picture

I think this is right from a certain perspective - which is if you are comparing the metals by weight.

However, as long as you don't care what the weight you get, you can ALWAYS afford gold. Might be only 1/10 oz. Or less.

Thu, 08/11/2011 - 01:10 | 1549901 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

An easy way to ask the question is how many ounces of silver would you take for an ounce of gold? Myself, I would say between 10-16 silver ounces per ounce of gold. So GSR being 40+ is way too damn high in my book.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 22:21 | 1549618 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

which is why i think silver is a much better buy right now.  nevermind 16 to 1, you can buy 40 ounces for $1,600 and wait for the gold-silver ratio to drop to that level which it will eventually.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:31 | 1549260 Critical Path
Critical Path's picture

Same old song and dance with these shit heads... not surprised one bit they haven't realized this doesn't work.  Nor do I ever expect them to.  How long before they start asking people to post more than the contract value, lmfao. 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:31 | 1549262 mynhair
mynhair's picture

CME -
Cementing Morons into Eternity

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:32 | 1549264 lostpuppy
lostpuppy's picture

Trading Experiment: 100 guesses on the price of gold by december should create an average mean guess that could be startlingly accurate!

I'll start: $2150 

 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:35 | 1549275 Critical Path
Critical Path's picture

Let me employ some of the same highly technical analytics (ruler and straight line method) so popular with the wall street equity turds... I'll wager $2215

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:39 | 1549295 Clorox Cowboy
Clorox Cowboy's picture

$10,000,000,000,000,005

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:44 | 1549325 GoldenCalf
GoldenCalf's picture

Hmm... on second thought maybe we should use the median...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:42 | 1549306 MobBarley
MobBarley's picture

I'll play. December 25th, 2011: $6,666,66/oz

 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 20:45 | 1549327 lostpuppy
lostpuppy's picture

do I include the joke data?!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!