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CME Issues Clarification On Margins: To Usher More Risk, Less Liquidity In MF Aftermath

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Yesterday, in what is the worst-phrased and most misleading press release to ever come out of the CME, the exchange issued a notice that going forward all Initial margin would be equal to Maintenance margin. Our gut interpretation was that "Unless we are completely reading it incorrectly, it is nothing short of a margin call for tens if not hundreds of billions worth of product." Judging by the broad response, our initial reaction is what a prudent, logical human being would assume: after all, it is precisely the undercollateralization of customer accounts, and general underfunding at MF Global that is what brought that particular company down. Well, we wrong wrong. The CME, it appears has taken a page right out of the European playbook, and less than a week after an exchange-cum-Primary Dealer collapsed due to excessive risk taking, the CME has followed up its vague press release from yesterday by inviting even more risk in lowering the initial margin. Why is this a cause for even greater concern? As the CME itself says, "Initial margins are set to provide an additional buffer against future losses in the account" - so going forward that buffer has been reduced by about 30%. But what is the reasoning provided by CME: "The intent and effect of these changes is to decrease the size of any margin calls resulting from the bulk transfer of MF Global customers to new clearing members, not to increase them." So basically the CME is implicitly putting all of its existing and current clients and customers at further risk by onboarding the accounts of those clients who, like lemmings, held on to their MF Global accounts until after it was too late. Because while the lower Initial margin may apply to MF accounts, it will also apply to any Tom, Dick and Harry beginning Monday, who will suddenly see a 30% reduced gating threshold to put on a position. Any position, no matter how risky.

Naturally, if enough people suddenly jump to put on risk, and the market flips and all new positions end up underwater, who will bail out CME accounts if, like MF, there is just not enough capital on the balance sheet? MF Global?

That the CME has opted for this highly disturbing path is very troubling, and just as in Europe, where three months after the financial short selling ban, financials are trading lower than they have ever been, so the unintended consequences from this action will result in even greater stress to the system, as not a single local will leave any excess money in their account, and likely will force all specs to trade within a hair of triggering maintenance margin, due to fears of what may happen at the CME itself, now that is has implicitly onboarded moral hazard from the otherwise insolvent MF Global accounts.

It also means the systemic liquidity is about to drop to even lower and more depressed levels.

And completing the symmetry with the recent action out of Europe, we learn that said Initial Margin reduction is a "short-term accommodation" which will apply until further notice. As an indication, Europe has extended its short selling ban several times and likely will keep it until the bitter end. We expect nothing less from the CME, where the new benchmark will be one of even greater initial position leverage which is what this margin reduction effectively accomplishes.

Yet what is most troubling is the complete lack of care to the wording ot the initial press release, as if it was thrown together by a 1 month intern who had heard his boss scream something at them from the conference room. That an event of this systemic importance requires not one but two releases, which still leaves many questions open (why does this apply to non-MF accounts? How long will this last and why it is open ended - after all the MF onboarding is a several day event at most? What happens to new non-MF initial trades which cover just initial and immediately see margin calls as maintenance is breached due to the lack of a 25% initial buffer) is by far the most surprising, and unfortunately leads to questions about both the CME's professionalism and competence.

Here is the CME's clarification.

 

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Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:43 | 1848895 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

Screw safety, leverage on top of more leverage stabilizes the system. TARP over it with something like EFSF!  CME is now releasing news _after_ market closes, then on twitter, instead of making it official right away.

No major margin calls Monday, but you can bet the MFG-transferred accounts are going to be exiting in general and looking to deleverage and run to cash.  This last week was hell for them and they want to get into a safer position.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:45 | 1848916 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

BULLISHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:54 | 1848982 sqz
sqz's picture

I agree with ZH's reading of the initial very badly worded advisory.

Is this not a type of systemic/TBTF consequence for the failure of one firm? Can anyone confirm that this action is unprecedented for any American exchange?

Finally, if it really is a temporary issue why would the CME not put a maximum time limit on it to cap the prudential risk across so many products? They could even have left it open to revert sooner than the limit.

When you see some of the differential margin changes they make in say commodities and now this, it is not surprising why people wonder if they make up the rules as they go along or worse.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:16 | 1849117 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

A warning to the priveleged from the Mr. Market that there is no more hiding systemic insolvency.  Place your final bets.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:39 | 1849176 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Gold.....it's now for any Tom, Dick, or Harry.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:05 | 1849235 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I'm getting the sense that mosely-claven's call for meltdown on Monday is not happening?

Gee, 600 fuckin posts of ZH echo chamber apocalypse calls and it turns out it was much ado about NOTHING?  No fuckin way.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:13 | 1849258 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Yup, trav, your hindsight is perfect.  Just like everyone else.

Well done I guess.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:42 | 1849322 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

My post was not hindsight, intuition backed by nothing, but not hindsight..

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:47 | 1849332 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

?

I was responding to trav7777.  I don't see you anywhere above - have I missed something or do you double as trav7777?  (kidding)

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:21 | 1849395 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

This first announcement by CME was intentionally vague, designed to do just what it did. Flush out market opinion, because you could use a number of different interpretations to explain it. I don't know much about futures markets, but I do know a thing or two about writing reports and documents. The initial letter was not mistakenly vague and ambiguous. It was intentionally vague and ambiguous.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:30 | 1849407 trav7777
trav7777's picture

we went through the same thing on Fukushima...everyone was in a state of mass panic, including bob diabolina, and I was the lone voice saying please calm the fuck down.  OK, I wasn't the only one, the professional engineers who work in nuclear power plants were with me, but I digress.

It would behoove everyone to just not freak the fuck out over things all the time and for the agitators who pump silver to cut the STACK NOWWWWW crap and start making plans to be barons of the post-apocalypse wastelands.  This shit reminds me of the crap Douchinger does with his dickercon which is a complete (and reliable) fade.  ZH needs to not become a fade even if half the posting members ARE.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:48 | 1849442 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Professional engineers are not with you, idiot. Bob diabolina v Trav7777? Oh we should follow Trav7777 he's only one with smart calm head on shoulders. LOL, you're FUCKING narcissistic idiot who takes self too seriously on blog.

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 00:48 | 1849936 TravsMom
TravsMom's picture

Boy, STFU when grown men are talking!

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 07:52 | 1850198 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

"ZH needs to not become a fade."

I guess it depends on how you interpret the information. When you know who the clueless are they are just as strong a barometer as the clued-in. I've made some scratch from swaps, metals, and believe it not equities from surfing the hedge.

I like your posts Trav and have learned to fade you sometimes also on matters like Fukushima:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/10/18/albino-cyclops-shark-is-real-e...

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:44 | 1849324 Banksters
Banksters's picture

Trav,

It frightens me that a barely literate, hate filled pus bag like you, has the capacity to access the web.   

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:32 | 1849410 trav7777
trav7777's picture

lol...barely literate?  That's the singularly most absurd thing anyone has accused me of.  If you're going to insult, insult credibly, ok?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:47 | 1849438 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Okay, you're egotistical idiot.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:57 | 1849460 d_senti
d_senti's picture

You're certainly not barely literate, and I agree that many posters are prone to hyperbole, but you understand as well as we do that these things are huge frickin deals. Massive oil leaks, 9.0 quakes, tsunamis, nuclear melt through, unprecedented market manipulations, the financial system teetering continuously near collapse, and on and on. It's been a stressful time since 2008, and we've all been waiting around for the other shoe to drop. It's gonna happen, but I think most of us are rather impressed at how long the extend and pretend has lasted.

So instead of tooting your own horn as the sole public voice of reason, try not being a dick about it while still doing what you do, k? No, f-off? Ok, gotcha.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:43 | 1849510 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I tried that and the people like cliff and the other lemmings jump all over me.  They spout all kinds of idiotic shit and so eventually things devolve.  That's just the way it is.

As far as waiting for shoes to drop, I really don't see that happening.  Sure, I expect global war at some point, but I think that the whole notion of what a collapse looks like is exaggerated by people here.  I've tried to point out examples of that, people I've known for years who grew up in brasil during 2 hyperinflations.  Life was not so bad.  Even in war-torn Beirut, life goes on.  It's not going Madmax and all of this BS.

I say it over and over again and people don't want to hear that.  They don't want to hear that silver stacking probably won't make them rich or that Comex isn't going to imminently default or that the world won't end because of Fukushima.  So what do you expect me to do?

The financial system is a house of freakin cards and it's a paper mindset.  It has no reality other than what we give it.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 20:37 | 1849592 fnord88
fnord88's picture

Comfirmation bias. We all want the crash to happen so the fucking banksters get raped. I don't think many of us want to contemplate the possibility that they can do just enough to give us 10 years of stagflation, instead of deflationary death sprial or hyper inflation.

 

Like the poster on Mulder's wall. "I Want to Believe". I want to believe the bankers have fucked themselves as well as us, but it probably isn't going to go down like that. So now I want to believe OWS will burn it all down, but that probably will not happen either. Which mean I am probably stuck with slowly getting poorer, and losing more freedoms, which is just FUCKED.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 21:06 | 1849623 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's funny, because the only ones calling for Mad Max are you and the Peak Oilers.  I certainly never called for "Mad Max".  But what exactly is wrong with having food and water?  Or guns and ammunition?  Or gold or silver?

Here's a hint--in your example hyperinflations, those who held dollars came out far, FAR ahead of those without.  In our case, there is no fiat currency that is safer than the dollar, so holding gold and silver is equivilent to dollars in the other case.  Further, there is a strong likelihood that our hyperinflation will be much worse than past bouts, because ours is the reserve currency, and the rest of the West is just as bad off as we are.  Hell, maybe the whole world is just as bad off.  That is, there won't be any big, powerful economies to help us get back on our feet.  No IMF to lend us money.  No international aid organizations will distribute food, water, and medical supplies.  Why?  BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL BASED HERE, AND OPERATE WITH DOLLARS.

The hyperinflation argument is totally seperate from my COMEX collapse theory.  If you want to disagree about these things, you can, but you don't disagree, or post any facts.  You just scream and shout that everyone else is wrong, and that you are right.  At least this time you actually made a post with some content rather than just screaming and shouting.

I should also note that I went back and looked over your Fukushima posts, and saw that you really didn't say what you were being accused of, and defended you.  But it was too late, apparently, as I had made your Nixonian "enemy list".  You have been on my ass at every (non)opportunity since, using lies, half truths, and out of context statements to defame me, just like those guys did you you in the Fukushima threads.  It seems to have wrecked your whole life in the meantime.  Hate is poison, and people don't like being around hateful people.  But you don't want to hear about that.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 22:42 | 1849762 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I guess when I say "it will not be Madmax" you somehow infer that to mean that I am saying it will be madmax.  I guess I underestimated your stupidity.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 23:13 | 1849795 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yeah, you say "no Mad Max" when other people call for it, but then you say it will be in Peak Oil threads.  So what is Peak Oil going to do, huh?  Cause us all to sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya?

You consistently accuse others of doing what you yourself do, all while claiming to be somehow superior.

Why don't you go join the KKK already, then you really can be superior to your peers.  Hell, maybe even recruit them as your henchmen while you carry out your comic book plot to sterilize the world.

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 07:32 | 1850190 Eurodollar
Eurodollar's picture

And this is the wonderful market in a nutshell :) Bulls vs Bears

 

Different opinions different actions.

 

Peace

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 00:32 | 1849915 oldman
oldman's picture

d_senti,

you can quit waiting---both shoes were dropped at the same time in 2008

om

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 09:19 | 1850273 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Gee, 600 fuckin posts of ZH echo chamber apocalypse calls and it turns out it was much ado about NOTHING?

 

Green for Trav.  As Reggie says, the money never leaves the casino.  That means the money isn't leaving the casino until the building collapses.  If there is a panic, TPTB will create a rally.  It ain't over yet kids.

Still, I stand by my statements that this feels like everything will come to a head within the next three months.  I can't trade based on feelings, but that's what my gut tells me.


Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:28 | 1849014 dasein211
dasein211's picture

The move was done to not force margin calls in Italian bond spreads.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:46 | 1849051 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

This is sweet!  I've never traded futures before, so for my first trade I think I am going to...short silver.  Who's with me? 

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:30 | 1849292 pitz
pitz's picture

Good luck with that; sounds like a sure-fire way to get your head ripped off.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:10 | 1849098 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

No, IDTS. As I read it, it's only effect would be that positions that were NOT subject to margin(Maintenance) calls will still NOT be subject to margin calls, even though they might otherwise have been subject to margin calls(Initial) by dint of being forcibly TRANSFERED from MF.

Any positions that are subject to margin calls are STILL subject to margin calls. And, ITALY doesn't enter into it.

IMO

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:40 | 1849178 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

So does that mean gold up, since everyone was so sure gold would be destroyed based on the initial reading?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:51 | 1849060 IngmarMattus
IngmarMattus's picture

We are off the lows!

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:01 | 1849074 SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

CME MARGIN REQUIREMENTS MORE SCREWY THAN EVER

At the end of a system, much like the death of a human, the vital signs go haywire.  Here we see how exchanges and the system reacts to the symptoms of death.  Besides the CME Group pulling this lowering of initial margins on monday, their basis for margins in certain products has much to be desired.

For those who have not seen my blog post on COMPARING the 2 YEAR NOTE MARGINS to SILVER, you can find it here: http://www.silvergoldsilver.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=39&topic=579.0

I commented in the first post the following:

2 YEAR NOTE MARGIN $500/ $200,000 contract = 0.25%

Silver 5000 oz Margin $18,500/ $170,000 contract = 10.8%

Again this was using the maintenance margins.  If we look at GOLD here is what the CME Group has for its margin:

GOLD 100 oz Margin $8,500 / $175,000 contract = 4.8%

Here we can see golds maintenance margin is less than half that of silver.  Why?  Because as we all know... Gold does not suffer from Volatility.  It is amazing that silver has such a high percentage of maintenance to contract amount than any other commodity.

PURE LUCK I guess...

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:36 | 1849504 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Not as screwy as CME PRs. CME has to learn to write English at the 4th grade level.  Why did the initial margin decrease apply to all customers? Please give a date at which initial margins will be increased again.  Or is that data only meant for insiders?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 20:07 | 1849549 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

yeah thats what i was thinking

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 20:10 | 1849522 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

since i own PM's i do care about the price,  so if commodities rise ill be happy, if they take a tumble and force people to sell their positions,  ill be down at the local coin and jewley store buying more.

i quess the question to ask is why?  why lower intial margin to maintance margin?

at first thought im thinking margin calls anie up or sell,,,,, but  they LOWERED the margin,  more money available to buy contracts,  maybe at the offset gold silver and etc... jumps a bunch?     SOUND RIGHT MY THINKING?

if thats right why induce more volitility is it that the cme wants the difference between the intial and maintenance margin to be paid at end of trading no floating anyones position, because in a sense the spread between intial and maintenance is a loan you dont have to pay until your down a certain amount

i think its a good thing one less thing the powers that be to use to influence or manipulate the gold and silver prices,,,,,, lets see how long it will last this 1 to 1 ratio

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 14:10 | 1850742 Darth..Putter
Darth..Putter's picture

If the paper price drops below the physical-willingness to sell then there is the true price discovery.

 

CME- We are willing to take more gold as collateral;

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/03/cme-gold-collateral-increase-i...

AND, We will allow you to take more risk by lowering the entry margins.

 

What a sales pitch!

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:45 | 1849183 island
island's picture

Yesterday I wrote this was "a snoozer" that TPTB would not let the CME wreak havoc.  When I first read the press release, I noticed the "1" didn't specify which (initial or margin) was going to be the standard. But like ZH and most rational people, I figured ZH was right -- it couldn't be the other way, given the instability of more leverage.

Captain Benny, you and my lesson from yesterday, have set me straight.  I now know that whether "leverage on top of more leverage stabilizes the system," it is viewed that way by the banksters and their political accomplices.  They either think the Global leverage and massive debt (currently being soaked up by soverign countries, and central banks) will be bailed out by Martians, or they truly want the Global financial system to blow sky high.  Whoopee. 

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:07 | 1849243 Michael
Michael's picture

Michael said; This will be reversed before tomorrow morning. The headline should read DefCon 5.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/cme-goes-margin-defcon-1-makes-maintenance-margin-equal-initial-everything?page=2

If you're going to invoke DefCon 1, please be be totally serious.

 

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:21 | 1849396 foofoojin
foofoojin's picture

yesterday i did the same thing. only i stuck my neck out on the first page doing it. but those who agreed with zerohedge thinking sure did get alot more up votes.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/cme-goes-margin-defcon-1-makes-maintenance...

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:27 | 1849288 knukles
knukles's picture

 

 

 

QEtofuckinginfinityandback

Bullish for Everything but Unintended Consequences!
I say let's play "Destabilize the System Further."

Me First.
No, My Go!
No it isnt!
Yes it is.
Tis.
T'ins't

etc, ad hoc, vootie.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:39 | 1848898 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

They saw the rumors...

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:43 | 1848908 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

The stock market would have imploded if they had gone ahead with that global margin raise.  You can't just yank that much liquidity and credit out of Wall Street and expect the damage to stay in the commodity pits.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:47 | 1848930 Arius
Arius's picture

just a drill ...

risk off again ...

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:26 | 1849011 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

If CME Group is trying to confuse me, it is working.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:39 | 1849037 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

How do you solve a debt and leverage crisis?  More debt and leverage!

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:50 | 1849058 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

It could simply be that the system has spun out of control ... but the imminent crash just hasn't reduced the velocity of the passengers from X to 0 quite yet ...

I really sort of sat up when Pope Pedophile called for a new global central monetary authority a week or two ago. The Vatican is deeply involved in money/finance (e.g. Jesuits) so this was sort of an out of the blue poker tell. If you subscribe to this theory, then Europe is fucked. They tried the IMF bail out to no effect. The risk has rolled up into a ball too big for anyone to push around ... so absent a new monetary authority to handle it then it is going to be running over soveriegns pretty soon I think.

This is yet another example press release where the normal "in-concert" behavoir of "the cartel" is anything but ... the actors increasingly don't follow the same script.

Buckle up!

DISCLOSURE: Buckling up won't really help. You shouldn't have been on the ride in the first place. But it might make you feel better before impact.

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:07 | 1849242 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the vatican?  Gosh, read machiavelli, the Pope has been smacked around and marginalized for 400 years

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:04 | 1849467 d_senti
d_senti's picture

Trust me; you try and tell people that the Papacy hasn't been running the world since 400 AD and you'll get shouted down as a Vatican pawn.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:20 | 1849485 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

My paternal blood line is 100% Jesuit educated. My old man has been ex-communicated. My old man also has a finance masters from UT and used to be an auditor for a major state.

I know of what I speak.

The comments of Pope Pedophile are desperation. The Catholic church is in very deep shit.

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:48 | 1849517 Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

Helpful insight - Thanks.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:48 | 1849518 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Sure, they are for a variety of reasons.  And so are sovereigns.  I said during TARP that they were transferring private sector risks to sovereigns and when that ran out, there was no bigger sucker to push it to.  I was very clear in that estimation and I share your analysis of it.

They will beg Christ for the printer to rev and it will be revved.  If they do not print the coupon, there DOES NOT exist sufficient requests for additional credit/money to construct the next level of this pyramid, thus it will collapse.

I have in a lot of ways been FAR MORE apocalyptic than anyone when I have discussed the implications of Peak Oil, but perhaps this has been lost in my subtlety on the topic.  I said on TF, all that you know is at an end.  And that remains true.  Life will not be the same but it need not be madmax or the end of things.

Many nations have collapsed, even the mighty Soviets and again, I know, or knew until she caught me fucking another girl lol, at least one russian who was in that nation growing up during the bad times.  Did not hear stories of eating insects or running from zombies.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 22:03 | 1849706 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I seem to think we are in agreement ...

If they do not print the coupon, there DOES NOT exist sufficient requests for additional credit/money to construct the next level of this pyramid, thus it will collapse.

... but the tone seems to suggest otherwise.

The RCC is balls deep in this whole charade. They will go down (financially) with the system. They will still have a network of constituents, so they will be around afterwards, but the glory of the "upper echelon" will be quite curtailed if they do not have local communities that appreciate their contributions.

Do not mistake the RCC as being extremely inept without huge social connections across the planet. That said, Pope Pedophile will ride his "bronc" into the dirt and I am not sure he will walk away from the event.

I don't see how I can disagree with your post, yet it comes across as a rebuttal. I generally like your T777 commentary.

But then again the sales team kept me far away from any customers. Maybe I am missing the obvious ... :-)

Regards,

Cooter

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 08:09 | 1850206 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Are you aware that the Vatican runs it's own private bank?

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 09:39 | 1850291 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Return the ass-less chaps and the football shoulder pad?  I kept the receipt.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:51 | 1848945 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Looks like they also heard the Chinese whispers...

And I cannot find it anywhere, is CME Chicago Mecrantile Exchange? Metals Exchange? Everywhere, they are just the CME group.

And what the heck are exchanges doing being listed? How does that maake any sense? Totally nutso world. Of course all these dealers have to "rally" their stock, while running an exchange that is or at should inherently be a non "growth" business? 

The world of finance can be defined in two simple words:

Moral Hazard.

ORI

war-memes-me-iran-israel-uk-us-social-engineering-planted-stories/

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:28 | 1849151 s2man
s2man's picture

Per Wikipedia:

The corporation was formed by the 2007 merger of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) and the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT). On March 17, 2008, it announced its acquisition of NYMEX Holdings, Inc., parent company of the New York Mercantile Exchange and Commodity Exchange, Inc (COMEX), which was formally completed on August 22, 2008. The four exchanges now operate as designated contract markets (DCM) of the CME Group.

On February 10, 2010, CME announced its purchase of 90% of Dow Jones Indexes including the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

Damn.  What don't they own?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:31 | 1849293 knukles
knukles's picture

City of London
Bank of England
The Queen Mother's Cooch
Goldman Sachs

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:44 | 1849327 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

No one has owned that cooch in quite some time, I hope..

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 21:15 | 1849642 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Her Majesty

I am not Chumbawamba

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:32 | 1849299 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Hah, thanks S2. i did not try Wiki. Trippy stuff.

ORI

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:39 | 1848899 Jump The Shark
Jump The Shark's picture

Of course they do

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:40 | 1848901 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

guess they got a call from the bernank.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:47 | 1849055 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

and from others, I suppose. 

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:38 | 1849172 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Their children will be safely escorted back home

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:42 | 1848904 comrade rally monkey
comrade rally monkey's picture

wrong wrong.

 

makes a right!

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:42 | 1848905 djsmps
djsmps's picture

You're being trashed by Joe Weisenthal at Business Insider.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:48 | 1848936 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

ZH should worry?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:24 | 1849005 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Joe....he is usually wrong about most things, yeah?

I went to Bussinessinsider and I got distracted.  Not sure what she said, but she looks good saying it!

This woman saved the world from collapse (bla bla bla):

http://www.businessinsider.com/eva-kaili-2011-11

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:37 | 1849032 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

"We don't want elections. We don't want to cause elections"

What a bimbo.

Must be Joe Weisenthal's kind of Socialist.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:44 | 1849045 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yeah, see, I wasn't listening to anything she said. 

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:12 | 1849107 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

I understand...

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:10 | 1849250 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yeah, she's a nice piece

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:32 | 1849298 knukles
knukles's picture

New Normal Rental Vacation Property

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:19 | 1849129 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Socialists save capitalism, what a retarded world. Today patients in any mental institution seem to act much more rational.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:53 | 1849062 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

You mean, like this ... ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOKtbJfNLFk

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:33 | 1849027 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

http://www.businessinsider.com/cme-margin-changes-on-monday-2011-11

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:46 | 1849046 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Hey Joe, you should join our club.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:12 | 1849106 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Joe got an astounding 18 comments for that.

Is that a record?

And all he did was repost Kid Dymanmite.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:29 | 1849153 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

What idiot calls himself Kid Dynomite?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:35 | 1849163 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Wait.  I know the answer to this one...

Kid Dynomite?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:34 | 1849304 knukles
knukles's picture

One of Mrs. Dynomite's kids.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:38 | 1849315 Buzz Wired
Buzz Wired's picture

That would be Jimmy Walker.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:46 | 1849171 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

One can only imagine Kidd's/Joe's excitement at the rare opportunity for schadenfreude.

Did they post their wholly correct interpretations of yesterday's announcement before or after today's 'explanation' by the CME? Or before ZH commentor tradebuysell raised the question for that matter?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:49 | 1849190 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Correct.

And did the great Joe add on iota to the debate?

Answers on a postcard.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:52 | 1849297 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

CORRECTION: "holdbuysell'

(not 'tradebuysell'- sheesh, that would be almost as ridiculous as 'GoinFawr')

Appy Polly Logies to thee and thine.

The comment:

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 21:37 | holdbuysell

"The Initial/Maintenance ratio is going from 'various' to 1.0 for all products.

What isn't clear is which value, Initial or Maintenance, is moved to create the 1.0 ratio.

Is it the Maintenance level moving up to the Initial level or is it the Initial level moving down to the Maintenance level.

In a liquidity-starved market, I can guess what's the most likely...thoughts?"

Yes, I think yours will be appreciated hbs.

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 00:37 | 1849920 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Answers in a matchbook written with a grease pencil....

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:44 | 1849180 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Joe Weasel who?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:37 | 1849310 knukles
knukles's picture

Joe's Weasel All.
Removes those peaky animal stains form your lawn and garden quick as a G-Spot.  Call now and we'll throw in an additional empty bonus can for free! 

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:00 | 1849351 Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

"You're being trashed by Joe Weisenthal at Business Insider."

You mean Joe "I couldn't find my dick if I used both hands" Joe? The only time that joker gets anything right is when his drivel is handed off to some intern to be rewritten.

Why Bloodshot even allows him on his web-rag is a mystery. His position must be to make those other useless hacks look good.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 20:31 | 1849586 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

That's like being trashed by Robotrader for making a bad stock pick. Who gives a damn what a 2nd class site like BI? If it wasn't for their (obviously) paid story links on Yahoo's Finance site, BI's page clicks would surely be less than ZH's,

Besides, you can read CNN and get the same bias you would at BI.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:43 | 1848910 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Real desperation showing now, the shit momos they have run up needs a buyer!!! Lowering margin is sheer desperation to lure (suck in) dumb money(retailers, sorry but this is ...well...!), in the market!
Whoever buys in will be left holding the bag AGAIN!!!

I beg, (dare), to "hope" its "different" this time!?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:43 | 1848911 flaunt
flaunt's picture

All the better to pump the system full of speculative positions so as to make the subsequent engineered take down that much more breathtaking.  Certain people are going to make a shitload of money in the near future.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:58 | 1849070 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

What if the first press release WAS the take down? But ... the desired outcome in market behavoir didn't materialize ...

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:11 | 1849100 flaunt
flaunt's picture

The markets were closed at the time of release so why would they have expected it to cause a market reaction?  Now if they had failed to provide clarity before Sunday evening's open that would be different.  Actually I half expected them to wait until Monday.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:58 | 1849214 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Correct me if I am wrong (I don't trade) ... but ... things trade over the weekend right?  ... so the impact could be easily observed as folks scramble/don't scramble after the news hits the wire.

Maybe the effect desired didn't materialize, even if the hammer didn't come down tile Monday.

If I am a complete idiot and don't know what I am talking about (I pretty much said I didn't) then do fill me in. I do, however have a strong notion that the big boys get to trade when kindergarten is not in session, so I am assuming markets are going 24/7/365 with rare exception.

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:19 | 1849276 reload
reload's picture

I think FX trades 24/7, and the banks can trade OTC any time they like. Jo public can probably find a market maker to make him a wide cfd price if desired, there are a few firms in London that would provide telephone quotes for cfd`s over the weekend. But doing anything in size would be very tricky to say the least.

I think even the big trading desks would seriously struggle to get any size done without moving the market and having to agress some very wide prices.

Once the big exchanges are shut volume and price discovery are massively reduced.  

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:53 | 1849458 flaunt
flaunt's picture

Hmm I don't know that absolutely nothing trades over the weekend, but just about everything that is used to gauge market reaction is offline from Friday evening to Sunday evening.  The latest thing that's open that I can think of is the after hours stock market which goes until 8pm.  I think even that was closed before the advisory was released.  

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:43 | 1848912 redpill
redpill's picture

Never underestimate the willingness of the giant house of cards to double down.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:05 | 1848971 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Doubling down?! That's the name of the game.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:49 | 1849056 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Funny world/word.

You hope to to Up by Doubling Down.

Sounds like an inherently losing proposition...

ORI

And the Circus Rolls On

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:59 | 1849347 knukles
knukles's picture

What if the Screws Were Turned by the Big Powers that Be?
Like the City of London, Rothschilds, BoE, Fed, Rubin, Dimon, etal?
I'm not into conspiracy theory or behind the scenes shady Wizard of Oz tripe, but here we have situations....  
A fucking series of Absolute Disaster Meetings of the World's Most Powerful Politicians Accomplishing Fuck All Nothing.  (Bad Karma... Enuf is Enuf for Fuck's Sake.)
Europe falling apart
Euro is falling apart
TPTB in Europe stumbling about like the Keystone Cops, but not as funny.
#Occupy gaining momentum and attracting violence (regardless of what one thinks about them, it is what it is) when there are millions of disenfranchised dissatisfied folks out there.
Pull Your Money From The Bank Days.... With participation of the MSM
no less!
MF Global.... could trigger a Lehman 2.0 if mishandled (Thanks, Jon)
Possible Panic Liquidations of Commodity Positions...
There's a big list that goes on and on....

Just not out of the realm of possibility that this is an integral part of "keeping it together" when Asia opens in 24 hours.....

Keeping it together my ass, come to think of it...
Keeping the Lid on, Period.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:45 | 1848915 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Thanks for posting this, Tyler.  We needed a new forum to discuss this, rather than doing it among the discussion that had been rendered moot.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:50 | 1848939 DTCC 1999
DTCC 1999's picture

Wonderful idea for a valuable resource.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:13 | 1849260 trav7777
trav7777's picture

no, we need to keep your IMMINENT CRASH calls in plain sight for all to see along with those of the rest of the chicken littles

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:36 | 1849309 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Perhaps everyone should continue to call Trav a douchebag for all of his "all will be well" crap about Fukushima?  I thought they could just drill a hole in the reactor and dump in some borax?  Easy as pie, right?

But no, that would be too easy.  Better to blame a poster on the internet for accurately posting about what the fallout from a particular set of events would be IF THOSE EVENTS OCCURED as a reasonable person would interpret they would have from the first announcement.

But no, Trav can't be held accountable for anything, ever.  Not his posts, not the sorry state of his personal life, nothing.  Trav is an all knowing god, and anyone who questions him will be smote by infantile and pointless insults.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:08 | 1849471 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I never said Fukushima would be all well, dude...in fact, this was pointed out to you many times by others and in fact YOU YOURSELF went back and admitted it!  Did you forget that? 

Your stuff on Fukushima was reasonable?  Which part, the part about the radioactive wasteland or that everyone in Tokyo would be "dead or evacuated within two weeks, tops"?

I think the other thread did a valuable service to the board in exposing you as a fool yet again.  It should go into the archives so future newbies don't get duped by you into losing tons of money buying silver at the top.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:17 | 1849480 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yes, indeed, I did come out to defend you, because I thought you were being attacked for things you didn't say, exactly what you have been doing to me ever since.

You keep on lying about the things I have said.  The "two weeks" was in regards to the fact that water had been shut off in Tokyo, and that bottled water supplies were gone.  Nothing to do with radiation.  But you keep on claiming that I was talking about radiation.

You are a miserable little man who lets his emotions rule his mind.  Get over it, or go be a loser somewhere else.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 22:03 | 1849709 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Hey you two.

Get a room.

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 09:16 | 1850272 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

TRAV777777777777777, you are truely delusional. You called everyone who said Fukushima was a global gamechanger a chickenlittle (me included). 

Delusional liar. Bad combination.

A-grade douche. 

ORI

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:45 | 1848917 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Are they doing it during the transfer only? This can't be a permanent action.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:45 | 1848919 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I went over and hugged a stack of my American Silver Eagle monster boxes. That always makes me feel better.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:02 | 1849226 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I wish I had a stack of monster boxes.

Oh, wait, I am in a small town in Alaska 1000 miles from nowhere ... a close second? :-)

Regards,

Cooter

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 08:20 | 1850220 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Are you really Cooter? We have a place down on the Kenai Peninsula, Kasilof. I wish we could get there more often to take the boat out...

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 22:35 | 1868616 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Way late to this thread ...

And, yup. Second craziest thing I ever did, but I am really glad I did. I wish I did it ten years ago.

Keep your place stocked, you might chose it over food/security riots when the dollar goes tits up! I tell family to buy 2 year shelf life canned/dry goods and store them properly with the notion they can be donated to food banks before they need to be replaced. Gods work you know! ;-)

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:45 | 1848920 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I think hyperinflation is IMMINENT and come Monday morning many people will have their life savings wiped out

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:47 | 1848932 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I think you are a douchebag who can't understand that you can't make valid predictions based off of false news.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:56 | 1848946 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

If i have my savings on Monday, I shall wish that you  exprience the embarrassment and defermation of charactor by ten thousand junks

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 14:56 | 1848961 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Junk away, Mr. Two Weeks One Day.

Never mind that when assumptions change, predictions based on those assumptions are no longer valid.  This is why no-one should be trading paper, and should instead have physical gold and silver.  These types of incompetent and manipulated announcements (and eventually policy) WILL conspire to rob you of your wealth.  Just becasue it didn't happen this time doesn't mean it won't happen the next.

But if you want to play in paper, you are certainly free to do so.  But you have been warned.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:03 | 1848970 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

I dont touch anyones junk

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:34 | 1849028 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Soemtimes you have to touch that with so much junk in the trunk.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:12 | 1849095 tickhound
tickhound's picture

I predict another insecure, cock-comparing, egomaniacal, narcissistic, and ultimately useless response is IMMINENT.

Let's count this one... Although I do have a big cock.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:19 | 1849249 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Each human on this planet requires calories first and energy second.

Gold/Silver is the best way to afford those things going forward. The best-est bet is securing those inputs first hand and in supply sufficient for hard times. God only knows what money will look like in ten years.

When/If I make it to retirement age (lets call it 70) I expect I will (1) still need to work and (2) the world population will be half or less than what it is right now.

Just math/reality. Think I am a nut job? Get out a globe and a marks-a-lot. Do some research on which countries net EXPORT food. Any country that doesn't NET EXPORT, black em out.

If you engage in this exercise with honesty based on reasonable data, your resulting globe will tell you everything you need to know about what is coming.

My advice (if you are young/mobile) is to produce or otherwise contribute to something fundamental that people need (calories/energy). If that means packing it up and hitting the road, the may God bless your travels. Otherwise, best of luck.

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:11 | 1848980 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

 

 

When you say "play in paper" you sound like a douche bag. 

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:17 | 1848992 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Only to idiots who don't know what they are talking about.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:32 | 1849019 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

If you're gona' call someone(s) an idiot at least spell two* correctly.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:39 | 1849036 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Replying to stop you from changing this incredibly stupid post.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:46 | 1849052 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Agreed, Tmosley is correct in his use of to. Now Bob, if you insist on using two, you basically just insulted yourself. I believe the bus for herp derpistan is leaving shortly Bob, and don't worry, it's a short bus.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:54 | 1849065 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

So I misread your meaning

Would have made sense eitherway, I thought you were talking about two people. 

My mistake

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:58 | 1849071 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Perhaps you should cool it, since you clearly NOT perfect?

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:03 | 1849081 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

I don't think he can handle such profoundness, but nice to see some humility at least on one side :)

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:09 | 1849092 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I'm not sure I could count the number of cheap shots and one-liners I have backspaced over in the last 24 hours to these guys.  It feels good to say such things, but they are not at all constructive, and make the person posting them look like a fool.

Restraint is hard.  But allowing lies to go unanswered is just as bad or worse.  Striking a balance between the two, especially with opponents full of illogical rage and personal hatred for you is difficult. 

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:24 | 1849145 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

I usually watch the attacks on you from afar but every few months it really pissed me off. Always enjoy your insight.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 16:44 | 1849182 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Look, I enjoy a scrap as much as the next fella, but you spend an inordinate amount of time engaging in petty feuds and name calling with just about anyone who looks at you sideways.   Not sure about anyone else here, but I'd like to see you stay on point.   At least that would cut down on the clutter of verbiage that I have to wade through to read the cogent comments.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:03 | 1849228 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Sorry, I just can't stand to see lies go unanswered, and it is natural for one person to get personal in response to another's insults.  If you don't like what I do, attack the liars first, and I will remain silent.  Those who would lie use this trait to ruin a lot of threads.  For that I am sorry.  But like the scorpion, I will sting, simply because it is my nature.

I wish these trolls wouldn't make all these arguments about me.  I prefer to debate on topic, rather than refuting personal insults.  Unfortunately, they do a good job of framing the argument such that it is always about me, personally, rather than debating the facts.  They aren't interested in facts, and shove aside any that I post.  As I respect you and your opinon, I will make greater efforts to stay on topic in the future.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:11 | 1849365 oldman
oldman's picture

tmosley,

So many lies---where do you find the time?

"Sorry, I just can't stand to see lies go unanswered, and it is natural for one person to get personal in response to another's insults."

Call it a meditation----and let the lies and personal criticism drift as they will like clouds across the sky----see them but do not follow

Good advice, but difficult in practice so long as one is attached to one's preferences----good luck to you either way                om

BTW---my practice is not perfect either, still working on it

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:18 | 1849273 trav7777
trav7777's picture

so basically what you're saying is you want mosely-claven to CONTINUE to make stupid predictions that reality invariably pimpslaps, and not to engage those of us who are reminding him what a fucking idiot he is?

because I can't believe you're stupid enough to think that idiot has anything truly cogent to say.  He is the biggest buffoon on here, only tolerated by lemmings who want to believe they're gonna get rich off silver

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 18:18 | 1849381 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Oh please, TMos has been bullish on silver for a lot longer than you keep implying. If there are any who have been bullish silver over the same period they have done very well, and any of those with a modicum of agility and minds of their own should still be deep in the black today. 

That said, I don't agree with all that TMOS says, to be certain, but for the most part I think he adds a helluva lot more to the conversation than you do when you attack him for not seeing the unforseeable.

Rocky has you nailed: just steer clear of the petty vendettas and unconscionable Grand Wizard crap and you're practically tolerable, just barely.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:12 | 1849477 trav7777
trav7777's picture

grand wizard crap?  Like what, specifically?  Pointing out "hate facts"?  You're mindfucked man, and you need to open your eyes.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:18 | 1849483 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Are you implying that the KKK is wrong about black people?  How exactly?

Here's the rope.  Go ahead and hang yourself.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 19:52 | 1849523 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Give me a statement by the KKK then and we can assess whether it is wrong or it is right.

I have never actually referenced or referred to the KKK at any point, so this type of demagoguery is really rather transparent.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 20:01 | 1849537 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Blacks have lower IQs.

Blacks should be sterilized.

Blacks should live apart from whites.

Honestly, it would probably be good for you to go join up.  Maybe if you had a social life, as disgusting as that form of social life may be, at least we could be rid of you.  Maybe you could try to impliment your plan to sterilize everyone with an IQ lower than yours.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 20:50 | 1849608 trav7777
trav7777's picture

blacks do have lower IQs on average than other racial groups.  This is a testable and well-established fact.

blacks should be sterilized and so should many whites, hispanics, and asians.  Everyone below a certain threshold.

if blacks could conduct themselves in a civilized manner, integration is certainly up to whomever wants to have it.  As things stand, blacks commit violent crime at a rate 10x that of whites, and probably 50x that of east asians.  It is no surprise that nobody wants to live around them, not asians, not whites, not hispanics.  Nobody.

Sterilizing everyone with an IQ lower than mine would exclude all of the population and that is a nonstarter.  Sterilization in a world of growing scarcity is MANDATORY unless we want to see people die as a result of starvation.  Watch Bartlett's series again; he says the same fucking thing.  Either we choose or nature will choose for us.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 21:12 | 1849633 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Great!  So go join the KKK.  Go to the ghetto and offer to pay people to get sterilized.  Leave the human beings alone.

Also, I like how you claim to be the smartest person on the planet now, but you can't even see nor care to think about the demographic nightmare that would be caused by implimentation of your half baked idea.  Think about the demographic crisis in China, then imagine if it had been a "no child" policy.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 22:46 | 1849766 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Idiot...demographics?  Do you think this shit MATTERS?

ALL AROUND YOU, you see a ponzi and you cannot seem to understand that human population IS ITSELF another ponzi?

The existence of growing numbers of humans against increasing SCARCITY of resources, even your mfing precious SILVER, IS ITSELF a demographics nightmare!

The population will shrink; either we choose how it happens or nature WILL.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 23:21 | 1849807 tmosley
tmosley's picture

lol, your "superior" mind really thinks humanity will continue to increase in population at an exponential rate?  Explain birth rates in Japan and Europe then, smart guy.  Christ, even the idiots at the UN recognize that, having pegged a peak world population somewhere between 2065 and 2100 prior to retreating to a level not much higher than today's population.

All that is needed is economic development to slow birth rates and capital investment to decrease the marginal energy cost of each individual.  Problem solved, all without mass sterilization and morons such as yourself sterilizing 97% of the population and then expecting the 3% who have children to be able to support the entire population as the average age soars past 70.

But why do you care about what an "idiot" such as myself and my "immaterial" opinions?  Why aren't you taking action?  Go.  Now.  It's the weekend.  The boys are probably out drinkin' after their weekend cross-burnin'.  Twont take no doin' 'tall tuh gettum tuh help yuh.

Sun, 11/06/2011 - 00:24 | 1849898 oldman
oldman's picture

tmosley/trav7777

Blacks did not bomb Hiroshima or Nagasaki

om

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:30 | 1849017 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

This is not constructive.  If you kids want to play go outside.  This is where we fight about issues, no matter how weird your issues are.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 15:11 | 1848981 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The risk / reward of trading paper is just too good to not roll the dice on. A core physical position is a must, but silver is going to min. $1,000 so the pay off with a leveraged bet will be mind boggling.

Sat, 11/05/2011 - 17:15 | 1849264 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yeah, it's funny how reality comes along and totally BITCHSLAPS your predictions every time, much to your suprise and everyone else's bemusement.

It's like you're SHOCKED to learn that you're an idiot and your predictions were total bullshit. 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!