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CME Lowers Silver, Copper Margins

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While it is unknown if this is merely a bull trap to get yet another bubble going, then to slaughter everyone with the same relentless barrage of margin hikes as we saw in the spring of 2011, or simply volumes in commodities have gotten so low that even the CME is willing to allow a little price appreciation in exchange for participation is unknown, but as of April 16 silver initial and maintenance margins will be 12.5% lower, while copper margins are declining by 20%.

For the full list of margin changes among electricity, agri, coal, crude, freight, metals, nat gas, and refineds, see here.

 

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Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:42 | 2339722 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

It's a trap! 

 

http://youtu.be/dddAi8FF3F4

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:45 | 2339737 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

No, it's a legal fleecing mechanism for those without the playbook.  Please, try to be technically correct.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:48 | 2339740 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

Legal, what does that word mean again?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:52 | 2339755 r00t61
r00t61's picture

Whatever the "lawmakers" want it to mean.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:56 | 2339767 CIABS
CIABS's picture

Right, so long as we can determine who the "lawmakers" are.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:58 | 2339774 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

Haha, are you refering to voting?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:59 | 2339781 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

Silver Bear Raid Coming....

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:21 | 2339849 CH1
CH1's picture

I distrust EVERYTHING they do.

I wouldn't play with anything but physical now.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 00:05 | 2340650 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

China bought 72 tonne of gold so far this year compared to 10 tonne last year same time.

If you understand gold, buy silver.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 03:43 | 2340892 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Lucy, The Football and Charlie Brown. Or as the farmer told his son....the second time you're kicked by a mule, you don't learn anything.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:48 | 2339739 urbanelf
urbanelf's picture

Admiral Ackbar was a muppet.  Coincidence!?!?!?!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:48 | 2339742 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

Right, you are.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:37 | 2340060 Frozen IcQb
Frozen IcQb's picture

LOL

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:52 | 2339759 beachdude
beachdude's picture

This is something like how I talk after 12 caucasians...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdMaZlWkK8o&feature=related

 

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:06 | 2339811 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Physical is my leverage. Real metal in the hands of buyers, in the long run, is the only sustainable way to move the metals higher while issuing yourself insurance. Don't be foolish peeps.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:50 | 2340601 Vint Slugs
Vint Slugs's picture

@SilverTree

Just curious but what do you think Comex was doing with copper, silver and gold margin requirements after the respective 1980 highs at $1.40, $50 and $870 as the markets were heading into their 1982 lows?

Edit:  Include Tyler, too, in the above question.  Nothing from ZH about margin requirement changes but conspiracy.  Doesn't matter whether the exhange(s) raise or lower requirements -- either way it's a plot to gull the unsuspecting.  Well, regarding ZH'ers I'll agree that they're easily gulled. 

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 00:54 | 2340740 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Vint Slugs,

Wake up, stop feeding the beast and while you are at it buy some physical silver.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:41 | 2339723 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Fuckers!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:43 | 2339728 Trying to Understand
Trying to Understand's picture

http://maxkeiser.com/2012/04/12/tonight-8-pm-178-mott-st-nyc-max-live-rage-reverend-billy-the-exorcism-of-blythe-masters/  ~ party time?  "TONIGHT – 8 PM – 178 MOTT ST. – NYC – MAX LIVE RAGE + REVEREND BILLY – “THE EXORCISM OF BLYTHE MASTERS”

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:43 | 2339729 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I hope you're not saying that there is unethical intentions.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:54 | 2339764 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Unsure if JPM increased its position in the copper holdings it amassed.  But I suppose unethical intentions to the upside are still unethical, whether they pump to dump or not.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:43 | 2339730 THECOMINGDEPRESSION
THECOMINGDEPRESSION's picture

Nobody is using the CME anymore, its paper and a FRAUD

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:03 | 2339799 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

After MF global who would want to use CME. Take it to Hong Kong. MF CME.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:57 | 2340274 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Actually, you're EXACTLY WRONG. 

The CME posted a 5% INCREASE in trading volume for the first quarter when compared to the fourth quarter of 2011 when MF imploded.  They trade a little over 12 million contracts a day.

Metal's contracts, in particular, were very strong during the first quarter - up 22% from the fourth quarter, averaging almost 400,000 contracts per day.

I know that barnyard libertardians are always trying to paint a picture of an imminent apocalypse or looming collapse of the markets, the currency, society, et al, but anyone who actually has the FACTS knows otherwise.

NO ONE IS USING THE CME!  THE SKY IS FALLING!

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi  

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 22:37 | 2340358 Strike Back
Strike Back's picture

FUCK OFF:

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/files/MoMU.pdf, page 2:

"Average daily volume for March 2012 Silver futures was 50,915 contracts, compared with 73,290 contracts during March 2011, a decrease of 30.53 percent.

Average daily volume for March 2012 Silver options was 7,500 contracts, compared with 8,140 contracts during March 2011, a decrease of 7.86 percent."

Don't know about gold, but this information, along with decreasing COMEX silver inventory (hasn't breached 28 million ozs. yet), suggests that the CME has plenty reason enough to attract some trading volume. Then again, we're not talking about gold margin hikes, are we?

So what are you going to do with your rosy view?  Are you long Apple and other trinket manufacturers?  Or do you just splurge on video games cuz cool guy Obama says he's going to to give you the rich people's stuff?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:06 | 2340485 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Listen up chop sticks...

First of all, are you aware there are other metals than silver, or are you such a hard-core silverbug that you don't care?    

Second, I was comparing ALL METAL CONTRACTS from 4th quarter 2011 (when MF imploded), NOT specifically silver from March 2011.  An argument was made that since MF imploded, no one trades or trusts the CME anymore.  My sequential quarterly comparison is FAR MORE RELEVANT to the point at hand than your comparison of ONE METAL 7 months before MF's bankruptcy.

Third, in March of 2011, silver was beginning to go cuckoo cuckoo for cocoa puffs.  CME volume was completely whacked out crazy.  Comparing March 2011 silver contract volume to March 2012 contract volume is utterly senseless.

Fourth, my post is 100% factual.  All you've done is make irrelevant comparisons which prove nothing meaningful to the conversation. 

Baka wa shinanakya naoranai

Max Fischer  

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:59 | 2340634 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

You're nothing but a MSM and Bankster loving shill and has little understanding of the perverted, fraud ridden and manipulated gold and silver markets.

You fool some of the people here, but not those who know better. Go to hell you loser.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 00:44 | 2340729 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Done like dinner Maxie - weakest comeback ever....

I recommend you disbar yourself from further commentary here Max until that long pending brain transplant comes through -

first of all, are u aware that 'other metals' mentioned are not subject to the overt manipulation under discussion here, and therefore of no relevance to the subject at hand?

second, refer to the headline of this piece if in need of reminder of topic of thread...your relevancy quotient is 0....

third, (and finally you have got something right!)in March of 2011, silver was beginning to go cuckoo cuckoo for cocoa puffs....when silver starts seeking real price discovery, it's cuckoo, when it's chopped down it's normal trading, right MadMax><?......Comparing March 2011 silver contract volume to March 2012 contract volume is utterly senseless....if your job is to build a case for ignoring the obvious.  Otherwise, it's the essence of what we are talking bout here. 

and fourth, your post is 100^% meaningless drivel, of the kind that compels one to ask out of kindness whether it might not better to seek new pastures rather than embarrass yourself further here?

Max Fischer....world class loser.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 01:23 | 2340769 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

My original comment was directed at the following two statements:

After MF global who would want to use CME?

and

Nobody is using the CME anymore.....

I was NOT making a comment about the volume of one particular metal, on one particular month and it's comparison to one highly-abnormal month from last year.

Why is this so fucking difficult for you LUDDITES to understand?  

Not only are silverBUGZ ZEALOTS, they are, by far, the most ignorant, misinformed group of barnyard investors that exists in the marketplace. 

The FORCES OF DARKNESS are planning a "takedown" tonight at 2am.  R U PREPARED?  GOT HAM?

Max Fischer

 

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 01:30 | 2340775 Strike Back
Strike Back's picture

You bitch.  Finish what you start.

Deafening silence on your investment strategy. 

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 01:43 | 2340789 Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

I enjoy your semi-cogent contrarian stance, Max, but . . . you got punked.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 01:46 | 2340793 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Deafening silence on your investment strategy....

What do my investments have to do with anything?  You seem to be talking about anything and everything other than the direct topic: is the CME still being used or have investors left the CME due to the MF fiasco?

Yoshi ANGRY!

Yoshi make no sense now.

When topic no understand, Yoshi talk man of straw.

Max Fischer

 

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 01:52 | 2340797 Strike Back
Strike Back's picture

LOL strawman?  See my post below.  Oh wait, you've already read it!

Again, the punchline is: "It's all a big ponzi, everyone is broke, and all they can do is print."  Got it?

Yoshi say: When nerd fan boy whose avatar is of a self-destructive nihilist fictional loser trying to fuck an inviable middle age wench resort to slurs, Yoshi knows fan boy lost fight.

Yoshi bows.

 

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 03:50 | 2340896 Western
Western's picture

Max reminds me of a high school friend that would spout out irrelevant details and insults if you pressed him on any issue.

 

Just like how he jumped on your picture of Bruce Lee and then makes some statement in Japanese!

 

Max Fischer jumps straight to the ad hominems within seconds.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 00:51 | 2340734 Strike Back
Strike Back's picture

LOL OK Rushmore drama boy, there's been a uptick since the cratering of volume on the CME during Dec 11 immediately after the MF Global fiasco.  This would indicate a loss of faith.  For this look on page 3.  I focus on gold and silver because those are the most manipulated markets that people would be losing faith over.  Don't be mad because I relied on a more detailed paper than you.

Your conclusion, you know, where most people make their point of their argument, was a generalized statement that "libertarian doomers" are raving about the failing comex, when all is fine.  To counter your point, I pointed to the heavily manipulated silver market where people would be losing faith, and the exodus out of the cme from a year ago.  A broad statement that the CME is fine requires a longer look, no?

I've argued with blatant white nationalists and racists on this board, but my first racial slur is from a liberal.  Fucking perfect. 

Final thing Max: in my limited experience, nutless sycophants rarely end up with anything tangible.   By this I mean any respect from people that actually give a shit about them, or precious metals for that matter.  Good luck to you, and again, fuck off. 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:25 | 2340547 dbomb12
dbomb12's picture

Just ask Gerald

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:43 | 2339731 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

What a bunch of micromanager idiots. 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:49 | 2339741 greenknightist
greenknightist's picture

they call a meeting ,nobody turns up ! shame . 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:50 | 2339748 Nozza
Nozza's picture

They are desperate for custom what with China starting to droop. Gotta do something to blow them bubbles. It's the copper that's the giveaway here.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 18:58 | 2339779 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Lower margin to suck in buyers, Raise margin to take their shares. If this is not criminal, what it is?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:16 | 2340003 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Yes, but who are these people?  Surely after MFG ...

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:25 | 2340172 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Muppets!

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 10:41 | 2341558 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

One has to understand their definition of volitile risk as reason to raise and lower. I choose to define it for them. I buy physical...........

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:01 | 2339794 mt paul
mt paul's picture

solid silver

muppet bookends

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:18 | 2339854 pleseus
pleseus's picture

It's a trick. JP Morgan leading the silver sheep to slaughter.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 05:24 | 2340949 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

give some credit to the hopium junkies over at King World News too

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:26 | 2339876 youngman
youngman's picture

buy the real stuff....and don´t worry about the CME

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:28 | 2339885 walcott
walcott's picture

they're using profit from silver to buy bullets to shoot and kill your ass and take your fucking physical silver. And any of you NIA mole faced fat heads who think the one world gubmint wants you to make a huge profit so you can buy a blueberry patch and hunt and fish in Montana watch this.

 


1945 Strafing Farmers on Horse Drawn Vehicles!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cl4TvZopA&feature=plcp&context=C4589ff6...

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:36 | 2339913 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Counterparty risk = changing the rules midstream.

Stay away from counterparty risk. Don't play their game where they can change the rules midstream. 

Go buy phyisical locally.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 19:50 | 2339947 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

There must be too much physical walking out the door at these prices..

Let's just suck in the paper players again while making it more difficult for the stackers, what a rigged circus!

No margin hike on physical last time I checked.

Bite me bitchez.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:16 | 2340005 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i'll take door #3:  volumes in commodities have gotten so low that even the CME is willing to allow a little price appreciation in exchange for participation

this is a marketing ploy to get more volume into the crimex

flee!  FLEE!

the commercials need more specs in the game

we can now give you up to 20% more chips on account for the same initial buy in;  free coffee and the $1 menu for seated players, too, BiCheZ!


Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:26 | 2340032 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

OK let's practice

 

I promise to sell the rise this time.

No I won't take that margin my broker said was cheap.

When the ZH pumpers are talking $10,000 gold and $200 silver on a Thursday afternoon I will put my sell in by 5pm

 

good

 

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:28 | 2340037 seek
seek's picture

I'd love to listen in to the presumably panic-stricken meetings as CME, JPM and the Fed slowly realize no one is falling for their tricks any more. They can only whip the horse so much before it dies or just quits.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:31 | 2340040 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Practice it

 

"I will buy the miners now and sell at the 5th wave" I also won't be sucked into the

200 dollar a share forecast for scamium resources or retardium reources.

 

Its true - holding 10 baggers to make them 11 baggers is what got you whipsawed in the first place.

Take your profits next time.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:32 | 2340048 zonkie
zonkie's picture

Help me understand why is everyone so negative about it?
If CME margin is reduced, there will appreciation for everyone
If spot silver goes up, so does physical, right .
What am I missing?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:53 | 2340064 xela2200
xela2200's picture

What they are are saying is the COMEX is lowering margin to attract the dumb money, so the big boys can fleece them. It will not necessarily appreciate. A lower margin in a small market most often equates to volatility. If I was to guess, they probably want some price appreciation. That is more based on the low level of silver inventory in their warehouse as physical buyers are starting to bypass the COMEX and going directly to the mines. Competition is a bitch.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:37 | 2340057 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

Ok, let's go over this one more time. Buy physical and lock it away. John Corzine got away with murder. CME will do the same thing. There is no rule of law in Amerika. If you play around with the CME / COMEX, you'll get burned again and again. Don't expect the CFTC to be your friend.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:37 | 2340058 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Actually, it is the second reduction in margins this year. Silver is been less volatile, so it makes sense. I don't know what is the big deal.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:28 | 2340179 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea well lets see them raise the margin requirements on stocks, then I'll buy your theory.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:36 | 2340582 Vint Slugs
Vint Slugs's picture

I'm not big on ad hominem attacks which, it seems, most posters on this site are.  So this is not an ad hominem.  However, are you aware of or have you even ever read Section 7 of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934?  Maybe if you actually had money at risk in either stocks or commodities futures you would know the difference between margin requirements as regards futures and requirements as regards stocks.  Maybe if you got a little education you would also know how margin requirements are set differently in those two speculative spheres.

Unfortunately, Sheep, you go another step further to showing just how unsophisticated you and many ZH posters are.  Go ahead, tell me I'm full of it and don't know what you're doing, go ahead and try to deny it but you and the masses just have no skin in the game.  So much talk and so much of it uninformed. 

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:13 | 2345876 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Don't bother. Just say I hate the COMEX and Mad max is on his way. That is what many in this site want to hear.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 20:46 | 2340081 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

The old head roach at the CME ran for the hills... maybe they area  little uptight about an investigation, you know, once Holder, Geithner and Shapiro all leave too...  The new head roach maybe does not spend any time in Dimon's briefs like the old asshole did...

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:04 | 2340122 Bubble
Bubble's picture

1st the IMF telling us to buy gold, then spec margin on silver reduced on the CME. If I hadn't been stupid enough to lose my phyz on my last sailing trip I'd be a bit worried at this point. Why did I take it with me? Full retard.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:06 | 2340128 xtop23
xtop23's picture

 Comex is running on vapors and needs more suckers.

 How stupid do they think we really are?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:10 | 2340135 Debeachesand Je...
Debeachesand Jerseyshores's picture

Buy the physical stuff before April 16th and put in a safe place before the Silver Vultures aka JPM etc swoop in juice the market and flee before the whole PM gets whipshawed.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:18 | 2340152 israhole
israhole's picture

FUCK COMEX!

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 21:47 | 2340233 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I don't have enough PM (who does?) but what I have is not about how much fiat I can exchange it for.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:44 | 2340602 plata pura
plata pura's picture

It be all varmint putang! New commodity rulings must come to pass; If one cannot take physical delivery one cannot participate, hence providing true price discovery.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 23:46 | 2340604 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Starve the beast, buy physical silver.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 04:18 | 2340902 Shineola
Shineola's picture

Its controlled opposition. CRIMEX is just Bankers jacking each other off, both sides of the trade are fed by the Fed. Go ahead, jump in there and try your hand.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 04:36 | 2340920 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Exactly

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 05:35 | 2340956 Platinum_Investor
Platinum_Investor's picture

When the CME raises margins their is aell off.

But where is the rally now thaty have lowered margins?

Oh forgot the sell off was margin hikes PLUS the cartel rading the paper market to start the trigger of the stops.

They need both at the same time to happen.  Doesn't just happen one by itself. 

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 06:55 | 2341019 KingdomKum
KingdomKum's picture

we few, we happy few, we band of silver holders  .  .  . 

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 10:16 | 2341460 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

Only the older guys were around in the 1960's to see the movie about domesticated lions called Born Free.  Not only can you domesticate a lion so that its safe to play with, you can even let it back out into the wild and then come back and make friends with it again.  People do this all the time, not only in real life, but also in business.  Just ask Siegfried and Roy.  It's about trust and trust is about hugs. 

http://tradewithdave.com/?p=9890

 

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 12:05 | 2341903 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Buy silver.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!