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USSAAA - S&P Reconsiders Downgrade After White House Challenge
McGraw-Hill: meet Chicago-style negotiations. And there, in one sentence, is all that is broken with this country. The reason for the beyond ridiculous horse trade, according to CNN: S&P analysis of U.S. revenue, deficit picture was questioned. Presumably S&P ignored to add the $10 quintillion dollars that were saved by America not declaring war on Tatooine and its most infamous Hutt resident: Larry Summers. Indeed, again according to CNN, S&P acknowledged some errors in its analysis. Isn't it amazing what being threatened with having your NRSRO license can do for motivation to double check your work, eh you pathetic sellouts? Who would have thought that last week's farce debt ceiling would continue and develop into a national pastime. Below, for the sake of S&P's non-existent conscience and incompetence, are their own guidelines for what constitutes an AAA-rated credit. Readers can decide if the US is one. In other news, in USSAAA, government downgrade rating agency.
And from CNN:
The Standard & Poor's rating agency served the Obama administration with notice Friday afternoon that it planned to downgrade the U.S. government's AAA credit rating, an administration official told CNN.
But S&P has yet to make its ruling public, and the source told CNN the agency is reconsidering after the administration challenged S&P's analysis of the government's finances.
The source, a senior official involved in the discussions, said the agency was off by "trillions" in its economic model and was now working to revise its analysis.
S&P did not return repeated calls for comment.
The official described the talks as a "moving target" and said "it's clear some people there still want to go forward" and downgrade U.S. debt.
Rumors swirled for most of the day Friday that S&P was preparing to make its move. But even several hours after the market close, official notice had yet to materialize
Rating agencies - S&P, Moody's and Fitch - analyze risk and give debt a "grade" that reflects the borrower's ability to pay the underlying loans.
The safest bets are stamped AAA. That's where U.S. debt has stood for years. Moody's first assigned the United States a AAA rating in 1917.
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Fiat ratings.
Even the bubbles will have bubbles.
Bubbles within bubbles.. trippy.
Great comments `~ (:
Psychodelic
In short S&P agrees to mark to mirage when rating Uncle Sam's credit-worthiness.
bubble party
Fabric softner = H.R. 1489.
Use it Bitches or dinosurus R US
Tatooine is such a peaceful place!
Its 149 light years away, but I hear the slave trade is booming there.
Unlimited Credit and spending Bitchez!
I got a better one
Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc., which is seen as a proxy for the U.S. economy because of the broad reach of its companies, said second-quarter profit rose 74% to $3.42 billion on improved results in its derivatives portfolio.
the one time squid thing came from the taxpayers and the derivatives gains just went down the shitter with the s&p. try to think beyond the headlines.
Whadda ya think. A two pronged threat from IRS and Justice? Keep it AAA or else!
Don't forget to mention this is the most corrupt "Justice" department in the history of the nation.
The MFM won't cover Fast and Furious, but it is getting uglier by the day.
It is almost as if the federal government wanted to make the drug cartels as strong as possible. Why would they want to do that?
They just busted a worldwide ring of kiddie diddlers.
As for the perverts diddling the economy, well they can't seem to find any evidence on them.
/Tin Hat Time/
Could it be that we are in an undeclared war with Mexico? Mexico is considering using silver as currency per Hugo Salinas (sp?), which is contrary to US$ reserve status. Also, Mexican farmers are not happy with GM corn and buying seed from Monsanto. There are probably other issues which are not inline with current US policy.
Um...yeah. Problem with that logic is that "fast & furious" guns were used to kill a US Border Patrol Agent.
The REAL agenda behind "fast & furious" is back-door gun control.
Not to mention the dead Mexicans, including the brother of their Attorney General.
Bingo - I have an answer for that one. (Besides being a false flag operation for tearing up the second amendment and grabbing guns,) The intention was to have the Zetas drug cartel overthrow the Mexican government. This has several interesting consequences.
Got the picture as to why the Feds were arming the Zetas yet ?
That has merit.
OTOH we could send troops south to liberate the mestizos... and their oil.
That has to be one of the dumbest conspiracy theory I have ever read. Thanks for the chuckle Chico
Has to be dumbest conspiracy theory I have ever heard. Thanks for the chuckle Chico
Yep, that was the threat.
The 'guests' from Homeland Security who just moved into the homes of S&P's top officials are a big motivator as well. It's good manners to make your guests happy.
New debt-rating agencies: Craigslist and EBay.
LOL... Next S&P rating?
"A+++++ will do business again!!!"
AAA will be changed to "DoublePlusGood".
Chocolate rations to be increased for all who believe.
Interesting 1984 reference.
And here i thought EBay was helping develop a new multi thread bidding system for congressional votes ;-)
White House challenges analysis? What did Obama say? That it'll hurt his re-election chances(if that is possible)? Or that it'll "cramp his style"
S&P your words are yet again proven to be not worthy of oxygen that is used
Queen Elizabeth 14 here, we are overdue to Southampton with a load of parchment for BOE. We have no passengers, the ship has been converted to freight as to haul greenbacks. Pirates from the EU are approaching, please advise?
boom?
KA-POW!
USSA rating intact.
I like to think of them as a wing of the cia.. it all makes sense that way.
S&P lost any credibility it had many years ago, as did the other rating agency whores.
Street thuggery - the new Amerikan way.
And the wildebeast dances barefoot on the White House lawn.
Aha,
the old 'numbers no good trick'
WH: your numbers are no good
S&P: we know that
WH: well you can't downgrade us with bad numbers
S&P: where do we get these "good" numbers?
WH: we don't know where good numbers come from.
lol
to WH - just pull some numbers out of your ass - Don't make a shit - this m-fucker is going down anyway & taking you obnoxious, pompous assholes with it. You've made sure of that.
Look for them amongst the unicorns where you found today's NFP numbers.
Epic Friday night fun!
I for one saved several million dollars on dinner alone, today. Instead of buying a Bughati Veyron to go pick up pizza and beer, I had it delivered.
Oh yeah? Well I just saved the entire world by deciding not to destroy it with my mind. In lieu of thanks, just send money to my Paypal account.
Hmm, truly sounds like a "Faustian bargain" to me! :>D
I have no words. .......................................................................
Link to CNN article.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/05/sp-tells-white-house-it-will-downgr...
More info on the S&P vs White House battle.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/08/govt-official-us-expecti...
.
Yes.! ..... we have no bananas!
Nah, just fuck me with a broomstick. The oligarchs have won. Game over.
You might want to keep fighting. The oligarchs prefer to use a 4x4 with a pineapple duct taped to the end.
They won Nothing. Ratings do not change underlying reality. An AAA Ponzi will collapse at about the same time as a downgraded Ponzi. Maybe sooner. By the way, that 2.4 trillion debtbux figure isn't going to get the Pols/banksters thru the next election....they miscalculated, over-estimated revenues. Around about July-August 2012, they'll have to (try to) raise the ceiling again. In a context of an economy in Freefall.
Yeah, strange thing about unemployment, folks with no job don't pay taxes very well! :>(
The funniest thing of all is, S&P can't do a damned thing to stop what's happening. They are as useless as tits on a boar hog.. If AAA means that much in this failing ponzi, then so be it.
The frequency of the crashes is accelerating, i expect that frequency to increase as time goes on.
Why have ratings? They are meaningless.
I hate to toot my own horn here but I'm going to do it anyhow....
TOOT TOOT TOOT TOOT
Boy that felt good, Thank you, that's all for now.
I guess you really can make people an offer they can't refuse.
Extortion 101 is a required course in the School of Chicago Thuggery.
You caught that clip, with The two lovers on stage? Rahm and Wookie ( SR.) had a " KODAK" moment.
Ref: otools 50 TH / Flash/ Crash...
To be honest, who really thought the rating agencies had the balls to even try to downgrade the US government? With all of the market manipulation we talk about here at ZH it's pretty obvious that the WH would threaten to make business for S&P absolute hell if they went ahead and downgraded. We're all slaves.
One reason S&P has the balls to downgrade the U.S. govt is that the U.S. govt did not have the balls to prosecute S&P for its role in the greatest financial crimes in U.S. history.
Now, by downgrading the U.S., the S&P can simultaneously 1) distinguish itself from Moody's as a marketing tactic, and 2) avoid any chance of prosecution for alleged past RICO crimes by claiming that prosecution is retribution for the downgrade.
Credit ratings, FICO, who gives a crap. Don't pay and party today and everyday. The FED will print mo money. Nuttin to it the way we do it.
Stability and legitimacy of politicial institution - hahaha
Popular participation in politcal process - LOL a majority of eligible voters did not vote in 2010
Orderliness of leadership succession - Check - I can see why this would matter to a bootlicking institution like S&P
Transparency in economic policy decisions and objectives - if you call lying transparency
Public security - sure, if security means getting beat up by police thugs and raped by tsa agents
Geopolticial Risk - fighting at least 3 wars, pissing off terrorists all over the place, exporting inflation... nah we're good.
What.
A.
Farce.
hooray! more drama fuel for next week! off to the county fair, old-fashioned fun, demolition derby and funnel cakes - cheers, y'all!
Watch out for the Black flash-mobs, attacking whites and then each other; the one in Wisconsin didn't go too well.
Zig-heil, MFs.
Un-fuckingbelievable!!!
...and the lapdogs on CNBS report this bullshit with a straight face. Too much!
Botox will do that.
Expected.
Narcissists, Sociopaths, Weak-Willed Sycophants all...
The fly in the ointment that, intentionally or otherwise, wreaks havoc on cohesive society.
Does anyone remember John Snow ??? LOL
The sad thing is that IF we got a downgrade, that might be enough to get some of the sheeple to pay attention to what's going on... maaaaybe. Now, of course, that won't happen. And will never happen. As long as Barry is in office, anyways. The sheeple will continue on and in 2012 reward the Teleprompter for it's AAA-credit ratings saved or created.
Well, let's not be hasty. S&P will have alot of powerful folks gunning for it. They may just be taking all comments into consideration and crafting the strongest argument possible before they downgrade. Any cracks in their analysis and you know the gubbermint folks will use the MSM to discredit them
An optimistic view of what is going on I know, but I for one am going to wait and see....
agreed, upon further consideration...this "objection" is probably worse than an outright downgrade...it is the desperate act of a desperate sovereign...what debtor in default would not "object"
Maybe they come out with 'We were going to drop you one notch but because of the attempted extortion we drop you two". I must be asleep, I seem to be dreaming.
Obviously, somebody decided to look at where bond yields were trading and determined that only the highest-rated, gilt-edged Fiatsco Paper can command such paltry interest rates.
3-Month 11/03/2011 0.01% 6-Month 02/02/2012 0.04% 12-Month 07/26/2012 0.11% 2-Year 07/31/2013 0.29% 3-Year 07/15/2014 0.49% 5-Year 07/31/2016 1.25% 7-Year 07/31/2018 1.91% 10-Year 05/15/2021 2.56% 30-Year 05/15/2041 3.85%How much do they charge for massive transfusions of blood these days Robo?
expect all sorts of kommunist headlines and rumors on monday in an effort to lure buyers back and shorts to cover
CNBC Headline - S&P calculations in possible US downgrade were off by Trillions.
A few trillion here, a few trillion there...$100Trillion+ in money to be owed. How far off could they have been? Oh yeah...$1.5T
Rallly On!!!
Butoh Theatre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lva8L-J8x04&NR=1
BTW, does anyone know who this performance artist is? I think they are from NYC but I can't find them on Google.
.
Bang Dai Ho: Me helped! Obama say officials S&P downgrade. But Bang think he say for officials, S&M and degrade. Me take care of it, work out OK! Barrack so happy!
More like ``do this and your families are gonna have an accident``...
Heh.
"That's a nice company/family you have there. Be a shame if something were to happen to it."
Good(?) news everyone, the downgrade is a done deal!
Where in the HELL is Warren, and his Reading Railroad?
This is fucking huge. I mean people just don't get how huge this is.
When I said six threads ago that Monday was going to be a bloodbath, I didn't even know about this story. But now that I do, it makes me even more convinced that Monday will be bridle deep in blood.
I hope you took advantage of the upswing this morning to recharge your positions.
'off by trillions'
Note to all sane viewers left: trillions is an invention of the 1990's. The IRS will come after you for an error in the realms of 'tens' or 'hundreds'. A 'thousand' is a monthly wage. A few 'hundred' of those might get you noticed as a GOP sponsor, and result in 'millions' of savings to your industry. A 'billion' is the GDP of entire nations of people ('millions' of them).
'Trillions' is basically declaring war on accountants and maths in general.1
Basic math. (This is so not going to parse- ug, it didn't, so robbing a quick visual aid - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponentiation)
aN = a x ... x a / n
Arthur Anderseninfinity
Now, let's just assume that the S&P analysts are marginally-competent[on a sunny day and it is sunny here in LA], who in the White House would challenge the numbers? Jay? These are the folks with access to the "launch" button.
Meh - S&P (and the rest of them) like to think of themselves as the "referees" of this market, but they are just as captured as the rest of the system (Fraud Street, DC, Fed, ECB, etc.)
Forget it, Jake. It's Obama-town.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v_BVNGAfYM
Meh yourself. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but, this is significant because it comes from the inner circle. Once the elite acknowledge that the system is about to implode, it indicates that implosion is nigh.
Relax. man. I've been ducked-and-covered for the implosion for the better part of a year now. Every day these bastards kick the can is a gift for those of us who know what's coming - The Grande Suck.
As to whether it's "nigh", well, we'll find out on Monday.
We'll give that can the kicking of a lifetime.
That should be good for a day or two.
If I'm right I will change my name to 8-ball, cause we'll both be wasted.
Indeed, we all shall be.
It's only a matter of time, really.
BTW, nice catch on the FMJ reference. Not sure how many know what you (and I) are talking about, though - might be "before their time".
Heh. Hat tip.
explaination on Kudlow,
jh tried to make it believable,
I'll tell you what - if this little snippet of news (that didn't make the mainstream news or even ZeroHedge that I've seen) doesn't make you want to pull down your pants, and take a nice, big, smelly Barack all over Ben Bernanke's hood parked in front of the Federal Reserve building, then you must be a bankster:
FED IN SECRET $16 TRILLION BAILOUT OF US AND EUROPEAN BANKS
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/309485
Paraphrasing, but the article says that to date, NONE OF THE 16 TRILLION HAS BEEN PAID BACK. Whaaaat????? So if I have this right, the Fed created 16 trillion out of thin air, and gave it away????
Guess you should watch this...
CNBC - "Apparently the error was in the calculation of the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio over time and was based on a misreading of what the correct congressional baseline was."
im sure they were told they will be held accountable for their part in the housing bubble
The Everything is a Bubble, Bubble is inflating.
The bubble is filled with" Laughing Gas" and I'm having my { WISDOM TEETH} pulled for the 3rd time in as many years!!!
Thanks for the context. Now at least I understand the constant state of inebreiation.
Why do you prolong it? I had all six done at once. Better to get it over with.
6 ? i WAS THINKING 4X3= 12? gOOD COMMENT THOUGH...
12? Whoa, just make sure they’re not the #1 or #2 molars. Usually only one wisdom tooth per side, so 4 in all, but Wikipedia tells me sometimes there are more. Who knew. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_tooth
Maybe Eric Holder got photos and he's a better AG than I thought.
It's quite simple what constitutes a AAA rating for USeless Lootery debt.
When people are hoarding $100 bills for the cotton content, the agency will downgrade the USeless to AA with a positive outlook.
One wonders if The Bureaucracy believes they have discovered the secret of perpetual can kicking.
Jack boot "TSA Thug"s, and behind closed door threats, conscriptz!
I've mentioned this before, but thought it worthwhile to repeat.
Back in the days when I used to speak to rating agencies on a regular basis, I often heard them discuss AAA ratings.
Repeatedly, they said that negative watch (or outlook) on a AAA credit made no sense. AAA credits are supposed to be iron-clad. If there is any question of whether a credit deserved a AAA rating, then by definition, it no longer was worthy of AAA.
It seems that ratings criteria are just as malleable as are GAAP standards
That the whole system is rigged is now obvious. Firstly the ratings agencies complied to the requests on the banks, which paid them, to give bonds fake ratings while knowing they contained crap, now this. Any confidence that previous fraudulent activities were finally in check is now completely negated.
You think this can is gonna kick itself?
Brazilian Jumping beans, are good can kickers, without FX 'Tariffs..." Now we need to move to the Horn of Africa & Scandenavia?
Why is The eur a better buy than aud? As I said 3 days ago, I'll stay long aud for 10 big figures @ 4.75%, over the euro any day. My posistion pays me 1% per day win or lose...
They essentially mad dogged them to dare to downgrade our toxic sludge, and they somewhat backed down. It's becoming a big joke about the western world economy.
Welcome to "Change YOU can believe in"!!
People always get that wrong. What he really said was hope for change.
What the microphone didn't catch was when he said, "Hope in one hand and shit in the other. Let me know which one fills faster."
Either BTD or go outside and clean the crap out of your shorts.
Yes we kick can!
Heh. I got it. But you should put kick in parens.
upon further further consideration i am glad i didn't cover this afternoon...and now...to the tavern
They want to stop the inflow into treasuries and stop the bleeding on the stock markets, at least to buy some time.
Exact the same way we do it in China! Government downgrades rating agency before they even snoop around.
You made my " Q3"... The Gooberment downgrades before they snoop around... That was a plus 10/ Golf Clap!..
So the rumours were true. Shocked they had the balls to even think about it. But why does a rating agency tell a country they are going to downgrade? Why is there even a conversation.
Anyway, come September when Timmy has to borrow from Pension funds again we should be getting downgraded.
The great unraveling has begun.
Exact the same way we do it in China! Government downgrades rating agency before they even snoop around.
If monetization isnt default, the US is AAA.
That was good! AAA+ to AAA with a " Gold Star" From Timmah...
Happy Birthday WTF
Triple A my AAASS, the last person to see United States Triple A was some Japenese Kamikaze on his dive on a Carrier Group in the Pacific.
W-hell it's BFF and I just thought I'd add my rating to the nobummer progRamm.
Fucking Bullshit.
The most corrupt administration in my lifetime. Now how can anyone believe that these guys don't "fix" the world markets.
Well, see, there's the rub. Isn't it.
They don't fix the markets. They only think they do.
Currencie wars, rating wars, real wars: So many wars, so little time.
Presumably S&P ignored to add the $10 quintillion dollars that were saved by America not declaring war on Tatooine
That is the funny! As Brooks would say, "near soiled m'self."
looks like its public now:
http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/ratings-actions/en/us
United States of America Long-Term Rating Lowered To 'AA+' Due To Political Risks, Rising Debt Burden; Outlook Negative
Yep, its official. Wonder if the other two follow . 6pm Sunday is going to be interesting.
so is the 'retract' alluded to in Tylers post here now passe/incorrect?
this is going to have HUGE impact in collateral markets. I for one am scared (as Ive been working on related supply chain/currency disruption scenarios -didn't really think this one would happen)
hULK i'LL SEND SOME iNTERBANK NUMBERS OVER STARTING @ 11:30 A.M. wEST COAST uSA TIME... On SuNDAY... ( G.M.T 19:30)...
yen/
Interesting. So they did it after all.
Tyler I love you. :"Presumably S&P ignored to add the $10 quintillion dollars that were saved by America not declaring war on Tatooine and its most infamous Hutt resident: Larry Summers." This is cogent fucking analysis.
It's just like "Dancing With The Stars". Everyone gets varying levels of super kudos. Even if you fall on your ass in the middle of a performance, you still score an 8.7 out of 10 (Right Kirstie Alley?). The best part for me is trying to imagine what one would have to do to score a 2.5.
Get swallowed by Kristie's ass, BOOM, instant 2.5
To many wiffs, and not enough Simon Cowells.
This might trouble me if I valued S&P's opinion. As it stands I say: "assume the position".
If U.S. Treasuries were downgraded to AA+ on Monday, stocks will be down another 350 points and investors will instantly "flee" right back into Uncle Gorilla Notes, regardless of their rating.
So far, Treasuries and German Bunds have proved to be absolutely bulletproof.
Bang Head Here - http://youtu.be/C5rJ4g9EMUk
Robo is right on target: US TBs will be the last bastion to fall; and the Crash will echo thru the Ages.