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Coffee And Cigarettes

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With Greece taxing nearly 90% of the price on a pack of cigarettes, perhaps a far more reliable indicator of sovereign health (ironically) than rating agencies is just how much in sin tax a given country withholds. If that is the case, France really should be worried. Also: don't be surprised if the next sauna you go to has a Starbucks outlet.

Source: GS

 

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Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:03 | 2527652 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Chicago- cigarettes=$10(+)

Collar counties = $5.

Rahm?

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:17 | 2527691 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

FSC made me quit.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:26 | 2527710 flacon
flacon's picture

20 pack of Marlboro Light in Ontario is CDN $10.03

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:49 | 2527784 Rahm
Rahm's picture

You don't like the windy city price? Next on the agenda: ban cigarettes.... Bitchez!

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:18 | 2527876 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

Ban?  And give up a constant revenue stream from addicts?  Fat chance.

 

 

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:06 | 2528025 markmotive
Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:56 | 2528371 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

No Obamacare for lung transplants if you are a smoker.

Includes Obama himself.

 

No welfare for people who spend $5 for a half a gallon doctored up "coffee" at starbucks.

 

 

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 02:55 | 2528503 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Deal!

I'll even raise you.  How about no "free" lung transplants for anyone, or welfare either?

And I say this as a guy who both smokes and drinks coffee.  When is the idiotic government going to figure out that personal lifestyle choices are not within their purvue?

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 01:54 | 2528448 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

NO!

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 09:06 | 2528854 zuuma
zuuma's picture

if someone offered me $87,600...

 

I would START smoking! 

The minute I see the money wired into my account, I'll fire up a fag & inhale. Best thing is, I don't smoke. Never have.

The first couple weeks I'll get a fantastic nicotene buzz.

$87,600 will get me something like 50oz of AU, too!!!!

 

One question, though:    How long do I have to stay a smoker to earn my fee???

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:24 | 2528074 greyghost
greyghost's picture

leave me alone...i smokin cigarettes and watchin capt. kangaroo....go away

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 07:48 | 2528688 Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

Don't tell me I got nothin' to do...

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:37 | 2527930 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ Rahm

+ 1

 

Cost of a pack cheap brands in S Florida is about $6.00 - $7.00 depending on where you go.  Premium cigarettes bout $1.00 more.  I don't smoke.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 02:58 | 2528508 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

I pay about $2.50 a pack in Wisconsin for American Spirits, but they're handrolled.  Used to be that a can (about a carton and a half) went for about $8.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 04:19 | 2528564 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn! in switzerland for a pack of american spirit i pay 6.70 francs..... for a 5 packs box i pay 6.70 x 4.................... WTF!!!

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 05:22 | 2528588 CPL
CPL's picture

Holy shit that's cheap.

Pack of smokes in Ottawa, brand names are $11.75 a pack with the 15% HST.  The weedy tweed brands are 10.00 a pack.

Cigars from everywhere else but cuba: $10 for a foot long Churchill.  For a Cuban (not a churchill) it's around $20.

Large cup of Timmy's in the morning is 1.80 with taxes in.

Starbucks is 5.

A pint of Kieth's is $8 now for a 20oz pint.

A 2-4 is $40, but most people drive to Quebec because a case of beer is $25 at a place called the Beer King in Aylmer.  Ontario wine is cheap, in Quebec peu chere (expensive).  Beer in Quebec is cheap, in Ontario it's expensive.

 

BUT WAIT...we also have a third country in both the US and Canada.  The Native Bands.  A carton of brand name smokes (any brand from any country if available) from an Indian /b/rother is $25 a carton.  Moonshine is $30 a gallon.  Tweedy brew is $20 a case.  No wine.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:39 | 2527936 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

See! just like satan. Call his name and... POOF! There he is!

 

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:55 | 2527983 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

Roll your own.  I have been doing it for years.  I get all natural tobacco from an Indian reservation out of Washington State.  A WHOLE carton cost me 9.  I pay less than 1 dollar per pack.  Those that smoke would be smart to roll your own.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:39 | 2528106 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> "Those that smoke would be smart to roll your own."

 

You're correct. Tho, it would be smarter to quit.

(ex-MYO'er & ex-smoker)

 

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:36 | 2528219 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

If you are going to smoke than the smart thing is to roll your own.  Some people enjoy smoking and don't cave into govt pressure.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:27 | 2528331 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

or dying of lung cancer, i quit smoking a month ago because the long term effects are potentially very bad, but i'm with you, if you are going to smoke you are doing the best and most likely least lethal way. i enjoyed smoking with my buds, but the thought of dying too soon from smokes eventually outweighed it, now i just drink a bunch of tito's vodka and light beer.  still bad, but cut my risks down by 50 percent of potentially bad shit that can happen to me, i would like to try one of those smokes right now though, cheers

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 04:51 | 2528572 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I quit smoking when it dawned on me that I had been smoking for longer than I hadn't.

Kind of brings it home to you. That shit's not supposed to be in your body.

Never touched another one since, and never wanted to either...

That was more than 5 years ago now, other than it was on bonfire night, November 5th, I never even bothered counting...

I set my aim to start smoking a clay pipe when I'm 70. Figured the smell was still nice, and it won't make any difference to my health at that time of life. Until then I can wait, if that's what you call it...

Still more than twenty odd years to go yet, and I'm quite happy with that...

To all you smokers out there, I highly recommend it...

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:59 | 2528250 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

When people kick their medical drug addictions and stop asking insurance companies to pay for them, then I'll listen to their stop-smoking rants.  Until then, their stop-smoking rants are pure hypocrisy.

Take the beam out of your own eye, then you can see clearly to take the speck out of someone else's eye.

On second thought I won't ever listen to their stop-smoking rants.  It's none of their damn business.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:41 | 2528111 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Gee, kinda like ammo, only the health damage is done on the other end.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:56 | 2528144 Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

Used to roll my own when I was younger...never used tobacco though. Damn those were the days...gotta move to British Columbia!

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 13:33 | 2529893 optimator
optimator's picture

As the tax revenues go down they'll go after the roll your own smokers.  Take a look at what CT is doing just to stop the roll your own machines. 

http://www.courant.com/business/hc-smoke-shops-law-20120613,0,1582076.story

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:46 | 2528124 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Inflation is here to stay.

 

Buy Silver to protect yourself.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:50 | 2528256 Hunch Trader
Hunch Trader's picture

20 pack of Marlboro in Vietnam = $0.75.

And they're not selling at a loss, either.

 

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 04:41 | 2528571 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

Smoke Cuban , Partagas is the cigar of choice for all Amerika's politicians they will never tax them .....

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:32 | 2527726 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

Reading ZH keeps me from quitting.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:35 | 2527736 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

I tell my girlfriend the same thing. This site also contributes to my alcohol abuse.

Needless to say she doesn't like this site too much.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:19 | 2527880 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

tradeoffs...

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:38 | 2527935 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

hear you guys, + 1 re wives not liking all that computer time their husbands spend on the Internet and ZH.  LOL...

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:09 | 2528032 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Lucky guys! I've got "ZH free times" now imposed on me by my husband and they seem to be increasing in number. My work blocked the site so I had to buy an iPad. I'm being attacked at all directions! Hid in the barn tonight and he sent out the dog to find me. Something about this site drives your significant others crazy!

Miffed:-)

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:22 | 2528062 AssFire
AssFire's picture

BlueCollaredOne,

Just tell her:

"Don't make me choose"

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:43 | 2528115 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Well, get him reading ZH too. A family that ZH's together, stays together.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:57 | 2528146 Jena
Jena's picture

It seems like there is a one-person per household ZH allowance.  Maybe only so much rage per roof.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 02:06 | 2528461 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Right Jena.... + 1...  Same w/ my family...

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:28 | 2528333 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I would only marry a woman that reads ZH.

And if she drinks and smokes that's a bonus.

And if she also bares some resemblance to Jessica Alba...I would not be upset either.

Am I asking for too much?

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:14 | 2528518 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Maybe, but you can get close.

My wife drinks, smokes, and backs whatever I say regarding finance or virtually any other matter- and she's nice to look at, too.  I don't have the faintest idea who Jessica Alba is, and don't care (haven't turned on a tv set in years.)  Probably, my lady looks nothing like her- she's looks like an Indian ("native american," that is) princess, and has the fiscal responsibility and temperment of a German fraulein.

The point is, your wish isn't entirely out of the question, it just may take a little tweak here and there.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:48 | 2528128 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

Bluecollar ,My girl refers to this site as zerohead, You think you got problems....

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:13 | 2527856 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Reading ZH has caused a serious increase in my alcohol consumption...sometimes early in the morning:-(

ZH should come with a fucking warning label.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:19 | 2527874 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"ZH should come with a fucking warning label"

Don't give any crazy lawyers reading this any ideas. Tyler will have to pass out a prospectus on the front porch before letting people enter.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:20 | 2527882 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"First, we kill all of the lawyers!"

Da Bard

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:51 | 2528259 Braverdave
Braverdave's picture

When the revolution comes they will certainly be some of the first up against the wall along with bankers, real estate agents and other evil-doers!

;)

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:44 | 2527911 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Luckily, other sites on peak oil / debt / false flags already got me there (along with my irish catholic upbringing). Note that as a causation defense

Actually think ZH is a form of therapy - gee, not alone, lot of other people losing their minds , scared shitless and lost all respect

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 23:47 | 2531369 CPL
CPL's picture

Amen /b/rother.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:36 | 2528097 infinity8
infinity8's picture

I have a friend who was living in Oklahoma for awhile for a good job. He got a CITATION for drinking beer, on his own front porch with another guy, because he was in view of neighborhood children (that could see him drinking beer).  The lawyers and insurance-men won a long time ago.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:45 | 2528361 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

OH NO!

I live in Oklahoma, and sit on my front porch, or in my garage, smoking cigars and drinking hooch! What should I do? I do this with friends at times as well! Oh Lordy, I am toast. The neighborhood police officer even waves when he goes past. 

Guess I'll just keep-on-keepin-on, and worry about it when I get written up for it.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 02:21 | 2528473 So Sue Me
So Sue Me's picture

Did someone ask for a lawyer?

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:20 | 2527884 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

ZH should come with a warning label? The WORLD should come with a warning label. People have absolutely lost it at this point.

If you think it was bad that Greece and Italy got new leaders without a vote imagine what will happen when there is no new leader, simply an administrative process to take over the coutnry:

[B]ankruptcy protection for sovereign debtors on the European Commission’s terms. What exactly creditors would do in this period – versus getting to talk to their sovereign debtor about a restructuring – isn’t clear.

Thanks, FT.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/06/14/1045391/placement-of-a-member...

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:46 | 2528246 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Alien-IQ

alcohol consumption...sometimes early in the morning ---- same problem here

secondary problem is posting in that condition and then going back and re-reading some really stupid response I've made.

so I usually don't go back

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:47 | 2528363 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Yup!

In 14 minutes its going to be early morning, and I've been tipping.

No going back now.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:00 | 2528509 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

One minute til, watching the Asian markets, lots of worries out there, and just getting started ;-)

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:47 | 2527779 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

but... that vinyl acetate goes well with the martini's!

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:20 | 2528047 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I used to smoke Djarim clove cigarettes. They made those illegal which herded those that smoked them to start smoking the much stronger clove cigars. Then they lowered the price of clove cigars. I quit and took up jogging about a year ago before they focused their efforts to kill me further. So far they haven't found a way to manipulate air in a similar manner.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:18 | 2528523 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Where'd they make those illegal?

I'm not a fan, myself, but one of my co-workers just had a pack of them about a week ago.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 07:41 | 2528676 twotraps
twotraps's picture

Exactly, more tax money to follow the path of current and past tax money -------- right into the Giant Pretend Accounts of states and countries, chicago, Greece whatever.  If only we had 90% tax all along, none of this shit would have happened, easy!

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 11:32 | 2529440 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Last time a pack of cigs was $6, Bush II was still pres. Makes sense, the data is 2 years old. Try $10 a pack.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:05 | 2527661 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

I am a smoker, quit for 12 years once.

I wish I had half the money I paid for the taxes I paid on cigarettes, could probably retire. 

No regrets re: the smoking, but tobacco is treated by government the same way as the cartel treats those hooked on its products.  Once they got you hooked, the price goes up.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:17 | 2527688 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Cartels aren't nearly as bad as government "sin" taxes. In Miami, the price of a gram of coke has remained steady at $50 at least the last 20 years.

By the way...if they are gonna tax "sin"...how about a vanity tax on cosmetic surgery?

A gluttony tax for fat people buying super sized meals?

A sloth tax for being a government worker?

A greed tax for paying yourself a bonus with bailout money?

And since when the fuck is beer and cigarettes a sin?

sorry for the rant...I feel better now.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:54 | 2527775 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

funny you mention that but a friend said the other day coke was the same price today as 10 years ago in London

a perfect example of the black (free) market pricing as apposed to any regulated market like cigarettes which have quadrupled in price over same period and what an extortion racket these legal markets are for Big Govt and Big Biz 

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:11 | 2527852 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Absolutely correct.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:41 | 2527940 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Zero Govt and alien-IQ, + 1

Indeed, completely correct.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:23 | 2527889 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

Except for the fact that they're 500% over priced because they are illegal.  The market is nothing more than collective public opinion, and the collective of public opinion also thinks that shit should be illegal.  

 

People are fucked up.  That's the problem.  

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:41 | 2527941 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Record-High 50% of Americans Favor Legalizing Marijuana Use
Americans 65 and older most opposed
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150149/record-high-americans-favor-legalizing...

Public opinion and the law have no relation to each other. The law is based on Corporate opinion...not public opinion. And that's the problem.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:25 | 2528526 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Even corporate opinion may be changing a little.

About a week and a half ago, some people were talking about that "bath salts" crap at lunchtime, and after a couple of minutes I stood up in disgust, said they should stop killing kids and just let them smoke pot, and stepped out for a cigarette.

From what I was told, our director of operations backed me up on that in absentia- it was nice to hear that he could see the sense of letting people do drugs that make them eat twinkies, rather than opening the door to the ones that make them eat the faces of hoboes. 

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 05:40 | 2528591 CPL
CPL's picture

I've seen more drunken brawls (and been in one or two) than I've seen people taking a couple of puffs and throwing a fist (cannot name a single incident ever in my life unless booze was involved).

 

Don't know about the coke prices, it's out there but I haven't seen it. 

Ottawa Valley rates for pot have kept up with inflation.  It was $50 an ounce for outdoor, $70 for hydro around 2008-2009.  Now it's $130 for outdoor and around $200 for mid hydro. 

Pan of brownies, free if you are a cancer patient or an old fart in a home and you've got family that grows, otherwise take 1/4 of the above price and a package of brownie mix, 1/4 stick of butter.

Green dragon, high proof booze with weed mixed in for around 6 months is around $300 a 40oz bottle and Dragon's breath, Beer where pot is mixed in after with a pat of butter and hops is cured in it is $100 for a 12 pack. Word to the wise, Jamacians use Green dragon medicinally, you mix one shot with 7up, choke it back if you've got a bad cold.  You will sleep like a rock for a day.  What does Jamacia and the Ottawa Valley have to do with anything?  20,000 Jamacians and 30,000 Mexican's are flown in as farm hands every year during the summer.

 

I love the summer time in the Ottawa Valley, food gets better and there are some great parties/golf tourney's.

 

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 11:51 | 2529515 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"Americans 65 and older most opposed" ... WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK??

(Not that I am IN ANY WAY a fan of democracy, but ...) does it make any fucking sense that the people closest to death have the most political power, HAVE ANY POLITICAL POWER?

"Don't let anyone smoke pot, which costs me nothing, and goddamnit I want my fucking social security and medicare parts a through d, which costs your broke ass like 10% of your paycheck for life --- thanks for the free shit, sucker, fuck you very much!!! HAHAHAH! My kids and grandkids and great grandkids can BURN IN HELL for all I care, I WANT MY FREE SHIT - PAID FOR BY A CLAIM AGAINST THE PRODUCTIVITY OF FUTURE GENERATIONS WHO WILL NEVER SEE ONE RED CENT FROM ME! Fair? I'll tell you what's fair! You paying $150,000 to extend my life by 3 miserable years of incontinence, immobility, and senility, with 10 doctor's visits a month ALSO PAID FOR BY YOU, HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHA"

This generation is literally nothing but a bunch of fucking cowardly rapist welfare-queen social-parasites.

/rant

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:53 | 2528264 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

I still find it interesting that despite high inflation illegal drugs are the same price after 10 years. I have seen a similar thing with weed. It is the same price it was more than 5 years a go. 

Makes you wonder what the real price of many things would be without government interference. 

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:00 | 2528004 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

How is price of coke (an illegal substance) in any way indicative of a free market? 

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:24 | 2528197 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Not to mention the variations in quality.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:56 | 2528270 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

The most free market is in fact the black market. Although the price is driven up due to illegal status, the price is also not affected by government regulations that would increase the price of the product such as taxes, industry standards, and licencing.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:59 | 2528376 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The most free market is a yard sale. followed up closely by a flea market.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 11:59 | 2529551 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Did you collect and withhold all federal, state, and local sales - and all other applicable - taxes, and follow all federally mandated labor laws, statutes, and regulations, did you report your income to the IRS? Tssk tssk.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 01:24 | 2528412 Reptil
Reptil's picture

same with weed here.

good quality weed 6 euros a gram. has been stable for 2 decades.

hip hip hooray for the free market ;-)

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 04:00 | 2528551 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

The price of untaxed goods depends only on the number of middlemen between production and the consumer. I've payed ~ 1.5 - 2 euros per gram weed for the last decade.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:17 | 2527871 madmax1965
madmax1965's picture

+100 AIQ! 

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:36 | 2527929 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the egyptians thought beer was food - preserved food

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:47 | 2527959 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Beer IS food. Damn good food!

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:30 | 2528209 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Called "liquid bread" in Germany.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:06 | 2528512 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Damn good food if from Germany or Australia - the rest, not so good - unless you've been at sea for a month, then any piss will do.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 04:27 | 2528569 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

you forgot one little nation that make best beers ;) belgium

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 05:24 | 2528590 Karl von Bahnhof
Karl von Bahnhof's picture

What? You mean that liquids made from cherries (aka Kriek?)

Do you know wher Budweis and Pilsen are? Cmon guys...

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:45 | 2527954 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"And since when the fuck is beer and cigarettes a sin?"

lol...nailed it.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:04 | 2528018 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Your joking about alcohol right?  Nearly ~11k Americans die every year in alcohol-related traffic deaths and thankfully these numbers have gone way down on a miles/driven basis and a per capita basis the last 30 years. 

My favorite stat though is that you have better than a 1:3 chance in your life of being an alcohol-related accident whether as a driver or passenger.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:23 | 2528073 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"Worldwide, tobacco use causes more than 5 million deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030.
In the United States, tobacco use is responsible for about one in five deaths annually (i.e., about 443,000 deaths per year, and an estimated 49,000 of these smoking-related deaths are the result of secondhand smoke exposure).
On average, smokers die 13 to 14 years earlier than nonsmokers."

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:35 | 2528095 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Think of all the people who would be alive from the Civil War era if it were not for smoking.  1 of 5 of them died needlessly.  For shame.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:03 | 2528157 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

LETR

LOL, Way too funny, gotta clean my keyboard now.

 

FeralSerf

Who cares? Those of us who smoke do it because we enjoy it. Going to die sometime, why prolong the inevitable?

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:40 | 2528230 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I care.  I don't like to have to subsidize your habit even if you enjoy it.  Nor do I like the decrease in my lifespan because you choose to smoke.

Many of the people that die from cigarette smoking are not smokers.  How would you feel about someone randomly firing their AK47 in your direction because they enjoy it?

 

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:20 | 2528319 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

If MY smoking is reducing YOUR lifespan...I'm gonna double up on my smoking immediately...as a public service to rid the world of your fucking annoying nagging as soon as humanly possible.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:50 | 2528368 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Well said. I was pondering a thought-provoking response. Booze got in the way.

 You said it good enough for some green.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 02:44 | 2528487 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I smoked a long time ago.  Quit.  But don't fucking tell me what to.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 02:50 | 2528495 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Greened again. Your on a roll. Gonna hafta watch you closer now. Startiin to like ya.

I am sure tomorrow it will change, but there is always hope. And change. ;-)

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:06 | 2528513 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Change it to a down arrow if you are an O'Bramney supporter.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 13:17 | 2529821 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I am not an Obama supporter. But I am also not a Rmoney supporter. At this point I do not support any of the candidates. May not even bother to vote. SO????

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:17 | 2528520 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

I quit also but still enjoy the smell of any (cigar, cigarette, pipe) - but those guys have been exlied so far back in the back 40, I gotta travel a long way now to get a whif of some 2nd hand smoke. You're more likely to get cancer from Fukushima or smoke stack emissions than 2nd hand tobacco smoke.

If you find a hot spot, would appreciate coordinates.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 06:19 | 2528604 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Thought you might like this strip...

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 11:11 | 2529368 yudd
yudd's picture

Second handsmoke, stupidest thing I every heard, and what is that saying about statistics

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:40 | 2528110 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

You could live your life like Jim Fixx. You remember him right? He wrote best selling books on jogging. He never smoked. Didn't drink and he ran many miles a day.... until he dropped dead of a fucking heart attack at the age of 52...while jogging!

And you know what? I'd bet it was a pair of smokers that found him laying on the road dead as they were on the way to buy a pack of smokes and a beer.

The moral of the story...worry warts like you die young of stress related illnesses mainly due to worrying about why other people drink and smoke and how that's gonna affect you.

My advice: Pour yourself a tall stiff drink, light up a smoke and leave the rest of us the fuck alone. You'll live a longer and happier life that way.

As an example: I am now drinking and smoking and laughing...while you are worrying.

Stress is the real killer. Lighten up Francis.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:54 | 2528138 CommunityStandard
CommunityStandard's picture

+1 Let the smokers smoke.

Still gives cancer, though.  You can have it.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:32 | 2528211 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

One would have to lock themselves in a air tight room and never come out to avoid all things we come in contact with on a daily basis that cause cancer...and then by being locked in an airtight room, we'd probably get cancer due to a vitamin D deficiency. Ironically...the best source of vitamin D is sunshine...which also causes cancer. Go figure.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:44 | 2528243 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

If they have a death wish, why not kill them right now.   It would be much cheaper.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:38 | 2528536 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

It's not a death wish - it's (1) getting a legal, little high, (2) being terribly addicted.

Kill them now? Smokers, being stoked on nicotine, tend to be pretty productive (work at a faster pace or can work longer hours - no dozing off at 1pm after lunch - some don't even have lunch, they used that time to catch up on lost nicotine time)

Cheaper? They die younger (don't collect as much Social Security) and faster (if cancer is caught in the late stages - i.e. "Sorry Mr. Sheeple, you've got 6 months and nothing we can do about it - go home and prep to meet your maker")

So all governments love this shit - (1) more taxes on those bad bad smokers, and (2) early cancellation of "retirement benefits", right about the time you'd be collecting them.

"Choom" is next - great taxes and keep the sheeple completely calmed.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:43 | 2528541 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

6% of smokers develop lung cancer, 3% of non-smokers develop it.  In my case, I was exposed to huge amounts of both asbestos and finely-ground cobalt before I was 20, and never got any advance warning about it.  The irony is that it has never bothered me much as a smoker- but when I quit for a little over six years, my life was a constant living hell of coughing and gagging.  So, if I'm going to die from mesothelioma and heavy metal poisoning anyway, I may as well do the thing that (counterintuitively) reduces my symptoms and makes me feel better.  So sorry that you don't care for the smell, but it is what it is.

I'm continually amazed that some of the folks who are perfectly willing to accept and advocate the position that the US goverment lies and manipulates most aspects of our daily lives seem to have no isssue with jumping right on the .gov bandwagon when it gets to some small area that they have a pet peeve with.  What, did you think they were telling you lies about everything *except* for tobacco use?

Stop acting like it's a flat-out suicide attempt, Scrooge.  I'll worry about smoking after we get all the poisonous shit out of everyone's food, and find a way to eliminate prescription drugs from the water supply- deal?

 

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 10:47 | 2529287 prole
prole's picture

"If they have a death wish, why not kill them right now. It would be much cheaper."

There is your moral tyrant super-nannie right there.

Boils down to, he feels his opinion is superior to others. In his soul he "knows" it to be true. Ergo, if you do not submit to his morally superior opinion, you should be killed.

This is what the foundation of all government is: "Submit or you will be killed, and it's for your own good to boot"

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:34 | 2528215 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

+1 I agree 100%. There are too many people worried about what other people are doing. Life is too damn short for that. As long as you aren't harming anybody else you should enjoy life as you see fit.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:15 | 2528314 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Wiki is your friend even though a lot of it is crap.  Jim Fixx had been a heavy smoker and his old man died of a heart attack at age 43.  He had a bum ticker.  I am not pushing jogging but let's try to get some of the facts.

His old man was a editor for Time magazine.  

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:42 | 2528351 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

James Fuller Fixx (April 23, 1932 – July 20, 1984)

I'm no mathematician...but

THE first symptom of heart disease is sometimes sudden death. Never was that fact made clearer than in the ironic death last week of James Fixx, whose best-selling book ''The Complete Book of Running'' led tens of thousands to take up jogging and made him a guru of the running world. Mr. Fixx, whose transition from a heavy young man who smoked two packs of cigarettes a day into a trimmer, middle-aged nonsmoking athlete seemed to insure a healthy life, died at the age of 52 while jogging in Vermont.
http://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/24/science/the-doctor-s-world-james-fixx-...

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:49 | 2528366 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Sorry. I misread your comment. i thought you meant that Jim Fixx was 43. My mistake.

But the point I ws making is that many of these things are largely genetic and no amount or exercise is going to change anything. When it's your time to go...it's your time to go.

Look at George Burns. Smoked and drank every day of his adult life and live, sharp as a razor I might add, well past 100.

We all have an expiration date. Nothing we can do about it.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 02:03 | 2528460 malek
malek's picture

My uncle was a heavy smoker in all his adulthood, became an alcoholic at 55, and never got cancer or had liver problems.

But then at 82 he died, having slowly suffocated to death over his last two years, after he had killed too many of his pulmonary alveoli from smoking.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 02:51 | 2528497 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I only greened ya because 82 is far too long for me. 

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 07:51 | 2528687 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

George Burns was a lot more health conscious than you think. He watched his weight, did keep fit exercises every day, and was a dancer to boot. The cigars were more of a prop and yes he did drink 2 martinis each day.

He also had one of the first heart bypass operations in his early seventies.

He did live past his 100th birthday but was in frail health by that time. He was booked at the Palace in London for his 100th birthday and you know he would not have missed that gig if they had to wheel him out in a wheelchair. But he wasn't well enough even for that.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 05:42 | 2528594 CPL
CPL's picture

Thanks Pollyanna...here's your man purse, the mall is that way.  Have fun princess.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:19 | 2528052 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

.

"Cartels aren't nearly as bad as government. . ."

Government is the ultimate cartel.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:45 | 2528121 Whiner
Whiner's picture

I love the way the gubmint taxes the hell outta cigs, then AGs sue big tobacco for health costs and spends the money on roads and pork. Like a parasite, They bleed them good, but not so much as to killem cuz they. Need to keep taxing them. Then the bootleggin rises; less to tax. You will be taxed into your graves, bitches. Buy tobacco stocks anyway: recession proof and no pricing limitations.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 07:46 | 2528683 twotraps
twotraps's picture

Alien-IQ, awesome point.  And drugs should be the most sensitive to economics right?  You also mention another point that could be the subject of years of druken' debate----your gluttony tax.

 

I understand that most people cannot afford to eat organic and feed a family, Honestly $7.50 for a gallon of organic milk??  That aside, they put in the least to the system and suck out the most with hip replacements cause your frame is not meant to carry another 85lbs around.  Their attitude is 'fuck the Man, let him pay for me'.....and we do in fact pay for him, no tears.  Totally sick.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:46 | 2527957 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Cartels don't run deficits.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 01:25 | 2528415 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Maybe because they use armed enforcers.  Coming soon to a government near you...

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:20 | 2527666 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Yeah but they tax them for the poor. . So I wonder what they would do if they actually achieved the stated goals of eliminating smoking( mmmbullshit)? Where would they get their revenues from then.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:30 | 2527720 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Obviously if everyone stopped smoking...the tobacco industry would get a taxpayer sponsored bailout because they are an essential source of political contributions.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:39 | 2527756 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@alien-IQ

I was wondering a couple of months back, "Is a dime bag still the same after 2 decades?"  I would have thought some amount of inflation had crept in and at least the bag would be lighter.  Very curious to know the answer.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:45 | 2527768 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Pot has changed. Sinsemilla is now the name of the game, as opposed to the seedy mexican brick weed of your time. Good shit goes for 20$ a gram on the east coast. You have to go into the hood to buy "dimes" of dirt weed.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:50 | 2527782 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

What are you talking about? Sinsemilla was around back when I used to smoke. We paid a premium for it and that was 25 years ago.

And just for the record.... I inhaled..... A lot.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:51 | 2527788 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

Indica vs Sativa.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:54 | 2527799 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

I'd say that the average college pothead has never smoked anything but sinsemilla is in life. It is no longer premium, that's how things have changed.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:06 | 2527836 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I think you are confusing sinsemilla and hydroponic.

Hydroponic is the more commonly found now and it's much stronger than standard organic sinsemilla.

Sinsemilla is just an unpollinated female plant that produces seedless buds and can be easily grown in your back yard without much fuss. Hence the name "Sin Semilla" which is simply Spanish for "without seeds".

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:15 | 2527861 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Actually hydroponic is just a term for the process used to grow some pot nowadays. It is a soilless way of growing any plant, not just marijuana. I'm no expert, but I couldn't see how that would increase potency. It is my understanding that THC content comes down to genetics.

Let's just agree that pots a lot stronger nowadays and pack a bowl.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:19 | 2527881 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

It's a deal!

Cheers.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:43 | 2527947 zorbathefreak
zorbathefreak's picture

Keep smoking that schwag, brah.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 01:28 | 2528419 Reptil
Reptil's picture

heads up: http://www.iolite.com/index.php/euro/wispr.html (just one of the many different vaporisers)

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:57 | 2527811 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I think what he meant to say was "hydroponic". Which was not around, at least not widely available like now, 20 years ago. Otherwise, he's for the most part correct.

The cost of pot has gone up because the cost of producing it has gone up. It's not just tossing a few seeds into the ground in a national park and picking it clean a few months later any longer. It's a science now.

and for the record...I still inhale.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:02 | 2527829 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I probably would too but marriage with children sometimes changes a lot. So now it's the occasional cigar.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:17 | 2527872 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

If I had a wife and kids...I'd probably opt for heroin:-(

The responsibility would be a serious detriment to my hedonistic tendencies.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 03:50 | 2528544 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

That's worth a green arrow.

I smoked my fair share of the stuff in my early twenties, and loved it at the time- but I couldn't imagine touching it with a 30-foot pole now.  Way too much shit to do every day.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:37 | 2527933 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

but did you have "relations?"

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:53 | 2527794 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

The price in Colorado on the streets is the same generally but the pot shops are about 2/3 the price to 1/2 the price. You would think it would hurt the price on the street but people who want to save money end up getting a medical license. The government gets their tax money and everyone is happy.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:19 | 2528050 itsallajoke
itsallajoke's picture

Yup, tho some of the smaller towns are voting the legal distributaries out of city limits.  Ahh gotta love CO.. Some of the cheapest gas, but expensive in other areas.. 

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 23:01 | 2528156 Jena
Jena's picture

I read the price of pot is dropping precipitously in NW Del Norte County, California.  There are so many legal growers these days for medical marijuana that the illegal growers are finding it hard to maintain any price points.  FWIW

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:52 | 2527975 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Yeah but they tax them for the poor. . So I wonder what they would do if they actually achieved the stated goals of eliminating smoking( mmmbullshit)? Where would they get their revenues from then.

And what socio-economic group smokes the most?  The poor!  Tax cigarettes at 50%, so we can give EBT cards to the poor to buy food, so they can use their cash to buy cigarettes...that's some fine government management right there.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 22:06 | 2528024 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Overseas in developing countries.  Just look at Altria or others and see where most of their revenues come from now. There's been a huge effort to get young Chinese hooked on cigarettes and especially young women.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:13 | 2527675 BigInJapan
BigInJapan's picture

Ooops. Double post

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:11 | 2527676 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

NYC cigarettes over $10 per pack of which $5.85 is tax ($4.35 NY State tax + $1.50 NYC tax).

Fuck NYC.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:49 | 2527783 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

If you buy a pack of smokes and a 32oz. drink in New Yawk, you're an overtaxed terrorist.

All of your sins are belong to us.

Fri, 06/15/2012 - 00:26 | 2528329 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

No. Fuck Mayor Doomberg and his progressive social agenda.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:12 | 2527678 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Tax sin enough and you get a black market that thanks you.  Fuck the nanny state (and that goes for both the Red and Blue Teams).

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:13 | 2527683 BigInJapan
BigInJapan's picture

Long Indian tobacco smugglers

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:46 | 2527776 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Okay Rand now you're confusing me. Apart from war and bail outs, I haven't seen a government program you didn't like. Don't tell me you're coming over to the dark side.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 20:56 | 2527803 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You pay selective attention.  I am for [much] smaller government, but I believe regulation is necessary to prevent things like rampant pollution and financial fraud.  I don't want the oligarchs to be in charge.  I also believe quite strongly in things like publicly funded schools and other institutions that help the little guy stand up to the goliaths.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:29 | 2527903 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

P.S.  I am 100% opposed to:  the police state; the prison industrial complex; global corporate governance (see GW's article of today); the military industrial complex beyond defense; Citizens United; the corporate form that allows the Jamie Dimons of the world to operate above the law; and many other things that are government sponsored.

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