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Commodity Unwind Continues As Global Liquidity Scramble Accelerates

Tyler Durden's picture


As pointed out earlier, the short term USD-funding liquidity ruse instituted two weeks ago by the New York Fed has now all expired, which means global banks are progressively selling all residual winners left having dumping US safe haven securities (a big reason why the EUR has plunged is there is no more repatriation of USD-denominated assets by European, well, French banks). Enter the commodity space. As the following color-coded chart demonstrates, "stuff" is being offloaded by the boatload to procure cash in expectation of yet another day of "rip your face off" margin calls. Which naturally is to be expected - with collateral negligible, those who sell hard assets first sell best. Yet at the end of the day, all it does is provide an ever better entry point for those who have the means to institute hedges against the next step which will will occur shortly: yet another global liquidity tsunami courtesy of the central banks, because that is all they know and all they can.


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Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:42 | 1978404 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Gold, come to papa....

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:44 | 1978415 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

That's why I looked at the chats, saw a repeat of August 2008 and came to this conclusion:


The Coming Collapse might be your Final Chance to Legally Buy Physical Gold this Decade

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:48 | 1978437 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

gold will do you no good during a collapse.  Talk to Venezeluans, or people who've gone through a civil war.  You need items you can barter.


canned goods.  gold means nothing to a mother with a starving child.  She will give herself to a gang for powdered milk.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:49 | 1978446 kito
kito's picture

cash will be king during a deflationary collapse. keep lots and lots on hand............

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:52 | 1978462 trav7777
trav7777's picture

nah; they'll just print it like Japan has for 20 years

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:57 | 1978489 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

I suppose that I'll just hold my nose... and BTFD!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:42 | 1978780 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture


The collapse of Venezuela in 2001 was localized to... well Venezuela. We are on the verge of a multi-detonation, global collapse of the entire western banking system along with all of it's sovereign governments. Even the holder of the world's reserve currency has ingested poison to the tune of 100% debt to GDP ratio and an economy that its present administration has managed to slow to a crawl.

Few analysts are now arguing that a worst case scenario is off the table, and I think most of them are wildly optimistic. This means the final "backstop" will be the US Federal Reserve burning up the printing presses to bail out the world (when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything has dents in it). This will obviously fail and massive printing will hyperinflate always does. Cash is trash and Gold is king during those times. Knowing this we have a chance to be ahead of the curve. Buy physical, firearms (with boucoup ammo), and food.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:26 | 1979018 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Huh, some of us play chess and think three steps ahead. Others like Dorm just happen to play tiddlywinks. We'll see how it plays out in the end.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 14:36 | 1979624 Hard1
Hard1's picture

Now, silver at -7.7% today confirms that silver is poor man's gold and holders will remain as such. BTW central banks are subsidizing your chance to buy gold on the cheap before they run out of options.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:22 | 1978646 MissCellany
MissCellany's picture

Sure, they probably will. But they won't give it out to regular folks if they can possibly help it.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:14 | 1978972 agent default
agent default's picture

They are printing, they are just not talking about it.  We are in the middle of this huge debt crisis, the US is running record deficits and debts, and the Bernank manages to keep interest rates at record low levels?  How does he do that?  It just shows how stupid the markets are actually.  Then they will wake up one day and say "Oh shit they have been printing all along" and everything will explode.  And if you are in cash you will be terribly damaged.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:52 | 1978464 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Do you honestly believe that the Fed will sit on its AZZ and do nothing with an election year coming up and riots in our streets?

Hell no.

Come the February-March 2012 time period, once Greece is out of the EU and Ireland is voting on it, the Fed will print like a mother.

And by print, I'm not talking QE 1 or QE 2; I'm talking a coordinated effort with the BOE, ECB, SNB, BoJ, and politicians in D.C. to re-liquify the system with north of $2 trillion.

Because the alternative is worse for the short term, they don't care about the long term.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:55 | 1978474 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

they are stuck between a rock & a hard place.


If they print, we'll get high-hyperinflation.  And it'll reck a number of economies, including many allies.


What will happen in America when there are 75M people on foodstamps?  There will be serious domestic political implications.  Every day there will be protests.


If they dont' print, we get another great recession.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:56 | 1978482 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

It won't be a recession this time.

It will be the total deflationary destruction of our economic and political system resulting in something far worse than the political elites can tolerate.

Again, look at the calender:

The election is less than 12 months away.

That is all these idiots care about.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:01 | 1978499 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

high-hyper inflation will turn American into a police state.  Already they are militarizing police. Already the surveillance & detention apparatrus are setup: NDAA,  domestic drones, Carrier IQ monitoring cellphone data.


If America doesn't head into a great recession, it's headed towards a police state.  I'd rather live in a deflationary environment with liberty, than a police state.


Though, the police state may unfold in a great recession too.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:09 | 1978558 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'high-hyper inflation will turn American into a police state.'

Firstly 'high-hyperinflation' is redundant. Second, hyperinflation is a political event not economic. See Hugh Hendry's excellent King World news interview from a couple years back or speak with people who lived through it like Yugoslavians. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:21 | 1978637 pods
pods's picture

Headed towards a police state?

Head into a great recession?

You are living in the past.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:31 | 1978719 EvryInternational
EvryInternational's picture

Hiya pods.  Been a long time since da bear...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:05 | 1978914 pods
pods's picture

Yes it has.  Haven't been there in a long time!

Sorry to go, but it is what it is.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:24 | 1978668 EvryInternational
EvryInternational's picture

Hyperinflation will turn American into a police state.

So will massive, system-seizing deleveraging and financial market collapse if they don't.


This is the crux of the matter.  The outcome only changes depending on how much they print, but the final social effect differences are negligible.  Police state is here and ramping up.  Just imagine what it will be like with starving masses and a dead economy - something that happens no matter how much printing occurs.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:43 | 1978795 Strut
Strut's picture

Sorry bud, but we're already there.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:38 | 1979070 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You realize that there are land barons already in place...  you'd simply be trading drones for whips in a deflationary environment...  this is where the spoils of the wealth gap really get to be utilized (because the political structure has deflated as well and will be more local or very local with regional feudal lords).  If we're going to talk about extremes...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:00 | 1978501 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Let commodities fall a little, so when the next round of "printing" is announced the new highs won't come as fast.  Consolidation is good for long term bull markets.

China demand may fall a little as their real estate market implodes.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:55 | 1978856 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

I am trying to buy the dip, but my dealer aint selling!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:16 | 1978979 I Got Worms
I Got Worms's picture

I hear you - payday is tomorrow and wanted to buy my usual 5 oz of silver. But I already know the coin shop won't have a single dime in the joint tomorrow at these prices, and so not even worth the trip.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:23 | 1979009 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

My sources are sure buying, but they are not selling. Think they know something?

I know stuff too....but I fear we may drop some more before I go all in.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:46 | 1979352 dirtbagger
dirtbagger's picture

Don't hold your breath - the Greek crises has been going on now for almost 2 years.  Waiting for the  "inevitable crash" is like watching paint dry.   It took Rome a couple of hundred years to finally implode and disintegrate.   There is a good chance that we may all be long dead before everything in the Western World falls apart.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:58 | 1978491 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Sorry, when they even announce the liquidity program, even before instituting it, raw material prices will surge. And another turn of the biflationary rack will further kill the buying power of the middle class. Because by now after 2.5 QEs and doing the Twist we have seen that net worth and incomes don't rise despite monetary expansion. Only the price of paper and paper-backed stuff. And that's the stuff of revolutions and geopolitical instability. So it's now down to the very short term

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:55 | 1978855 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

Actually...Benny was appointed by a republican. I seriously doubt an election year makes a difference to him. He'll just keep printing no matter which party is in office. We may be on QE5 or 6 by election day.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:18 | 1978621 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

cash will be king during a deflationary collapse

Yeah... I'm guessing that when the price of real estate, farms, bread, crude oil, cattle, & metals all drop to ZERO during the deflationary collapse, I'll be sitting pretty with my $1 bill...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:51 | 1978460 My Taint
My Taint's picture

You can't help them. The meme of goldbug love is unstoppable.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:53 | 1978467 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you can barter yourself out of the country with gold

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:44 | 1979108 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:01 | 1978497 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture


I agree.  A lot of people have discounted what Pletcher has been preaching from the start of this and that is that there will not be any safe havens during the final unwind.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:01 | 1978500 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Dorm, two words: wealth transition. Gold has no use in the throes of a massive collapse. I concur. However 6000 years of history show that gold and silver are stores of value. Smaller and more portable than a case of canned goods. Highly compact wealth that, when - and it would happen - a new system is put in place to replace the old. That new system may be well gold & silver money (not paper at all), it may be paper backed by gold and silver, but one will be instituted eventually. Based on historical precedent and plain, old fashioned common sense, having gold and silver in hand is a wealth preservation/transitional move.

If you make it through a collapse to the other side, you have a ready store of widely accepted and quickly converted or useable wealth now.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:04 | 1978528 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

I agree with everything you've written. karma +1

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:28 | 1978696 potatomafia
potatomafia's picture

Unless the mother HAS gold to use to buy food/necessities...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:39 | 1978771 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture


"canned goods.  gold means nothing to a mother with a starving child"

These items have expiration dates and slow you down when you want to be on the go. I was in Venezuela a few times and with a few gold coins you can buy the whole neighborhood. Those who produce these goods only want gold or silver.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:08 | 1978919 pine_marten
pine_marten's picture

I agree with you Dorm.  If you have plenty of all practical supplies, gold may give you a nice store of wealth when the upheavel is over.  But you have to be able to defend it.  In the middle of complete anarchy, a hoard of gold would glow white hot, particularly if you had tried using it to aquire staples in your area.  You would be in more peril than some idiot who found a suitcase of smack and tried dealing it in the hood. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:41 | 1979089 trav7777
trav7777's picture

your statements are totally wrong unless you live around people who are fucking thieves and robbers.

If you live in the HOOD, expect HOOD type outcomes.  If you live around the type of people who are typically in the HOOD, you will get HOOD behavior.  The reason the HOOD is like it is is because of the PEOPLE there.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:42 | 1980586 pakled
pakled's picture

Desparate people do desparate things...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:53 | 1979401 stuman
stuman's picture

I actually think there's quite a bit of validity to this comment...that said, I think it would be wise to have a bit of "both" gold/silver in small denominations & useful items to trade and barter with (ammo, canned food, TP, lighters, alcohol...)


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:49 | 1978443 trav7777
trav7777's picture

silverbugz getting absolutely BLOWTORCHED

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:56 | 1978478 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Channeling Robotard. +1 for you.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:57 | 1978488 GiantVampireSqu...
GiantVampireSquid vs OWS UFC 2012's picture

silverbugz getting more fiat ready to swap for physical.  Fixed it.  If it hits $25 I'll gladly take out a loan to buy physical.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:01 | 1978504 Martial
Martial's picture

And I hope it gets worse....ready to back my truck up. Bring it!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:07 | 1978552 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

With a rising dollar, global selloff, traditional dip in all commodities (especially gold and silver) between January - April, 40,000+short order contracts still outstanding.... Nah that doesn't bother me.  I want to go even more in soon.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:13 | 1978589 tmosley
tmosley's picture

lol, like your gold is rising spectacularly.

Your doublethink on precious metals and "SHTF" is almost humorous to watch.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:00 | 1979170 trav7777
trav7777's picture

whether or not gold is going up has nothing to do with the fact that silverbugs like you are getting ABSOLUTELY MONKEYHAMMERED.

Anyway, I have a short gold position since a week ago anyway

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:13 | 1979224 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Wow, that's fucking painful if I wanted to liquidate. 

Silver Bid: 28.89 Ask: 28.99 Change:  -2.28


If I want to buy, that's opportunity. :-)

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:52 | 1978461 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

I think I am in love with Ann Barnhardt!

Buy, buy, buy - physical!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:11 | 1978577 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

I prefer women.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:27 | 1978693 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

I hear Hillary and Michelle are available - YOWZA YOWZA

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:46 | 1978815 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

They prefer women too. <ba-dump-bump pish>

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:28 | 1979878 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

You mean weak women. 

Gotta be a man to handle someone like Ann.  Man up.  21st century pussification is over.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:53 | 1978469 GiantVampireSqu...
GiantVampireSquid vs OWS UFC 2012's picture

Silver is trading at a massive discout to gold. BTFD

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:27 | 1978687 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Do it NOW.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:43 | 1978794 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

as well as platinum at a historic 177 USD discount to gold, lasst week we saw 215 as the max divergence since last 20 years

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:09 | 1978559 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

Gold continues to track equities... although now it seems to be acting like a 2x or 3x levered equity ETF.  equities up 1%, Gold up 2%... equities down 1%, Gold down 3%. 

I wish I understood the reason for the price movements here.

I've always known this, but there is a huge possibility that a major number of Gold investors are actually levered financial firms who have levered up to get into gold.  if so, a coming collapse could decimate gold, at least related to paper.

obviously, the flip side is that the Fed is standing by ready to print.  if so, perhaps ma and pa will start to flood into Gold...

Sophies choice... 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:23 | 1978659 Rynak
Rynak's picture


There are no non-paper prices.

Nuff said.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:32 | 1979047 onebir
onebir's picture


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:24 | 1978669 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

BTFD. Buying Mar 2012 Silver now at $29.27. Chart looks perfect to me.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:32 | 1978726 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

With regard to the post itself; I agree. It's good analysis. Maybe, Mister Market will even agree. I hope so.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:42 | 1978405 Jonbutterfly
Jonbutterfly's picture

Very interesting interview with Ron Paul on the Alex Jones Show:

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:49 | 1978441 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

The link doesn't work... but that's how they'll take down RP, if they feel they need to.  It will be guilt by association.  It will be Alex Jones or Lew Rockwell or some white separatist group who at some point said something favorable about Ron Paul.  It'll be an ugly campaign when it happens. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:50 | 1978455 trav7777
trav7777's picture

DWLs are the biggest white separatists on the planet.  They vote with their feet and move to whitopias where they can pontificate safely sheltered from reality

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:56 | 1978483 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

It won't have to be guilt by association.  It will be the same thing it always is, his old newsletter.
Despite what any of you say, iti s damning that Ron Paul allowed horrific racist columns in HIS newsletter.

One can try to rationalize it as much as you want, but RP is a racist.  He does have many other graet ideas and ideals, but not surrounding race.

and before you come to his defense with the" but he didn't personally write the article in his newsletter" argument:

What wopuld you say if Obama's or Hilary Clinton's newsletter said that we need to confiscate gold and strengthen the fed... but then she said "but it wasn't ME who wrote that!" 

Long ago my brother in law got me excited about Ron Paul, and that excitement lasted until I read his newsletter and until I heard his views on the Civil Rights Act. 
As a non-white, I know that I get slave status in RPs world, at least if that's what "the market" decides... which of course it will.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:24 | 1978663 Melin
Melin's picture

I haven't read RP's newsletter but I can't understand why you assume "the market" would relegate you to slave status. 

"The market" just wants to buy and sell stuff and couldn't care less about the superficial manifestations of your DNA.  If the market truly were free, the racists would lose more than they'd ever gain by their stupidity and the people they'd discriminate against would be the better for knowing who the racists are so as to avoid spending their dollars on them. 

How often are you asked your race when you buy from Amazon?  How often are you asked your race when dealing with the government? 

Get government out of the economy.  A free market benefits everyone.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:45 | 1978805 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

I just have to look at history Merlin.

Historically, slavery has been very common in any area that has light governmental restrictions against it. (almost every European country back in the 1600's)  It continues to this day in areas with low governmental interference against it. (like many African countries where tribes enslave other tribes).

there has never been a time where slavery was ended due to market perceptions.  it was due only by people lobbying central government to outlaw it.

If producing things, it is difficult to produce for a lower cost than free labor.  This then occurs by either slavery or indentured servitude.

America in the 1920's had a weak central government and strong state's rights.  Fed Gov  had a very light touch on the average gentleman.

Look at h ow African Americans were treated... and then tell me Mr. Market doesn't care about the color of your skin.

A person must live in fantasy land if they think that there won't be immediate attempts by the strongest to enslave/indenture the weakest... and I know which side I'll be on.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:08 | 1978929 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

You are already a slave.  The plantation has been upgraded.

You are a slave to fiat and the debt masters.

Go ahead and try and get a job without a social security number.  Try and get out of paying payroll taxes, medicare, medicais etc.  You have no choice.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:12 | 1978963 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

You've got to be kidding.

Are you SERIOUSLY going to compare needing a social security number to get a job, to being placed in chains and whipped and murdered and raped?

the cognitive dissonance is breathtaking

maybe you all need to see Roots or something to reacquaint yourselves what slavery is again.

I will take my station in life 100,000,000 x before I'd take the life allowed to my father.

I would take my life infinity times that what I'd have gotten 200 years ago.

My god.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:10 | 1979212 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Roots was a joke and if you believed in that shit, you're a moron.

Of course you'd take your life have whitey providing tons of gibs me dat and you can continue to be as lazy and unproductive as you were 200 years ago except now you get all kinds of free shit

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:43 | 1979341 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Why don't you try and stop paying your property taxes?

Men with guns will come to "your" property and you can either give them your property right then and there or you will be killed... they won't bother with that intermediate beating and whipping pansy crap.  Rape probably isn't out of the question though.

Those are your masters now.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:30 | 1980207 Hive Raid
Hive Raid's picture

Absolutely sickening to watch these negroes play their racial grievance game with the likes of Ron Paul. White Americans have poured trillions into the African-In-America population over the last 60 years, and all we get back is this underhanded hate, the complete destruction of all negro-occupied regions, and violence (over 30,000 white women sexually assaulted by black males every year).

This African-In-America spams the board, showing us the racial attack that will be used to oppose the only candidate who is not a traitor. Africans hate him because he won't use govt guns to enslave whitey, to lavish blacks with endless gibs-me-dat.

Given that America is so awful for you non-Americans, despite providing you with a level of prosperity that your tribe can never produce by their own primitive faculties, the answer is obvious: leave! Go home! Nobody wants you here!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:36 | 1980562 Melin
Melin's picture

I wouldn't be so mystical as to adopt the nom-de-blog of Merlin but you did make me smile when I saw the error.

We don't have "light government restrictions against" slavery.  We have a Constitution that protects individual rights.  Shop-keepers refused to discriminate and gubmint came in and made it illegal for them to continue to serve blacks.  Guess why?  Because with the force of a government gun, racism gets institutionalized. 


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:07 | 1979200 trav7777
trav7777's picture

GFD you people are think ANYONE other than whites gives a fuck about racism?  They are UNABASHEDLY and UNAPOLOGETICALLY racist.  While you kvetch and fret over it.

The stupid are those who pay any attention to this "racism" shit

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:37 | 1978746 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

You've made an incorrect assessment of Ron's position.

"The political left argues that stringent federal laws are needed to combat racism, even as they advocate incredibly divisive collectivist policies.

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist.

The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.

More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct our sins, we should understand that racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty."
-Ron Paul

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:12 | 1979221 trav7777
trav7777's picture

this is just stupid...race is NOT a superficial distinction.  SKIN COLOR, just one aspect of race, is a superficial distinction.  But skin color is NOT race.

And your definition of racist is wrong. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:17 | 1979242 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

So how do you define it Trav?   I add culture in with it.   I give a fuck about your race. I discriminate based on your CULTURE.

Act like a monkey, get the respect due a monkey.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:40 | 1978778 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Ron Paul had quit politics, and wasn't planning on going back.  There was no real reason for him to closely monitor the country for things written falsely in his name.  Hell, I woulnd't have expected such a thing to happen.

All that said, you can go fuck yourself, you lying shit.  Ron Paul's position is that the federal government has no say in governing the private behavior of private citizens.  No-one is going to make you leave their place of business for being non-white.  Even if they did, would you REALLY want to be hanging out in a place like that?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:09 | 1978925 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

Great argument.  Fuck myself.  Wow.  compelling.

Of course people would make non-whites leave their work.  where have you been these last 3,000 years of history?

no, I don't want to hang out in a place like that.  I don't want to live in a place that has "white only" bathrooms and "colored only" restaurants, especially since my family is multiracial.

I don't want to live in a place like we had in the us from the 1700's through the 1960's.  Hell, I don't even want to live in a world like I lived in back in the 1970's, when racism was much more overt.

Which is why I like the Civil Rights Act, something Ron Paul opposes. 

You can junk me as much as you want...  but junk me or not, a major impediment to RP's campaign is and always will be his newsletter.  Again, you can forgive him or rationalize it all away, but that's because you just really really want him to not think the way his newsletter reads. 

but all your rationalizing won't persuade the people on the wrong end of this.  To many of you, racism is an abstract thing that magically stopped.  You have fantasies that a free market (a utopian idea anyway) will magically keep it away.  To those of us who are  on the other end, it's something that took us hundreds of years to fight to remove, and it took the assistance of the CENTRAL government to do it.  (remember when the Central Govt desegregated Alabama schools?  I do).

I know in your simplistic world govt= always bad.  But I personally have benefitted from the Civil Rights Act, and i'm not ashamed to admit it.


lastly: where did I lie?  I need to lie to be a lying shit... at least I'd guess so.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:50 | 1979125 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I don't want to live in a place that has "white only" bathrooms and "colored only" restaurants

What the Hell are you talking about? Do you think there is any chance at all of returning to the segregation of the 50's? Your whole post was filled with idiotic statements. Let me ask another question? Do you spend any time at all with young people, kids in their teens and 20's. Racism is largely disappearing among that generation because the U.S. is already the most diverse country on Earth and kids are used to it. You need to stop living in the 50's and 60's and drop the "we will never get rid of racsim" meme.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:23 | 1979258 trav7777
trav7777's picture

WTF are you smoking?  Most schools are TOTALLY segregated and so are most neighborhoods!

VAST majorities of whites and blacks and hispanics live in high-majority same-race areas.

The reason is because people of ALL colors do not want to live around blacks...they destroy whatever they come into contact with.  Schools that are all white or asian are "good" and "inner city schools" is code for heavily-black and that means 30s % graduation rates and crime and metal detectors and shit.  So everyone who can, including the blacks at the right of their bell curve, move to "good" schools.  As Section 8 and busing and the rest of the gibs me dat AA parade migrates more blacks from the schools that are bad BECAUSE of them to schools that are good because they are not there, the eventual result is a migration of the pattern of destruction and crime.

In fact, the longitudinal studies on Section 8 and crime patterns were SO COMPELLING that the people who saw them initially believed they had accidentally shown the same map twice.

People vote with their feet.  Whitopias are clean, shit works, crime is low.   Blacktopias are Detroit...why the hell would ANYONE expect diversity?  JFC, in NYC, blacks and hispanics commit ABOVE 90% of the violent crime just by themselves.  I can point you to the NYT crime stats page where they show exactly who and where.  Blacks alone are 60%.  THIS is integration.  THIS is diversity.

So, do YOU want that shit?  Do YOU want your kids in a school that is a complete failure?  Do YOU want to have your shit stolen, to get robbed, maybe killed?  Nobody else who cares does either, so they flee blacks and self-segregate.

This WILL NOT CHANGE because nature is what created this diversity in behavior and nature doesn't give a shit about what we WISH were true.

Now, go buy the world a fuckin Coke or something

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:15 | 1979234 trav7777
trav7777's picture

why WOULDN'T people ask blacks to leave, fuckin black cabbies won't pick you up either and black waiters HATE to serve you.

Blacks are rude, obnoxious, shitty tippers, a crime risk.  YES, PLEASE remove them from the establishment and everyone else's dining experience can be better.  Go shoot up the Waffle House or something.

Anyone colored has benefitted from the decades of gibs me dat. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:22 | 1979253 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

You are on fire with your hate today.  Shouldn't you be more mellow after tagging that Ethopian chick last week?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:25 | 1979262 trav7777
trav7777's picture

It is hate to STATE FACTS, bitch?

I stated EASILY PROVABLE FACTS.  You are so mindfucked beyond belief if you think the utterance of facts equals hate.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:32 | 1979044 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

There was no real reason for him to closely monitor the country for things written falsely in his name.  Hell, I woulnd't have expected such a thing to happen.

Of course he should have.  It's HIS newsletter that he started and it was a business venture for him.  There is little doubt that RP did not personally write the letters, some people claim it was Lew Rockwell, a close associate of RP (and a scary man indeed).  Not a great defense... "My really good friend and business partner wrote the racist things in my newsletter!"


remember, this wasn't some online thing that can just pop up.  it was actually a print newsletter.

If it were just that, then people might let it go.  But then he and his son follow with their arguments against the Civil Rights Act.  Again, you can all spin it how you want... but it isn't going to play well with many of the electorate, although will play very well with a certain other electorate. 

he has other positions that are going to play very well for some, and not for others... abortion for instance.  gay rights for instance.

I personally respect the man because he does seem to be genuine and true to his words.  I know that he is pro-life, I know he is anti-gay rights, and I know he is anti-Civil Rights Act.

How many other politicians can you say that about???  very few.  Maybe Bernie Sanders and Denis Kucinich and a small handful of others.
the rest are liers and charlatans. 

but people have to realistically understand that Ron Paul is a very conservative libertarian, and his views themselves cause discomfort to a large electorate, no matter how much you or I might agree with some of his platforms.  (and I do agree with some of his platforms... but I like many people think that a few are concerning).

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:03 | 1978902 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

hmmm, i see.......

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:17 | 1978975 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Wait just a minute. I am probably the last person to defend any behaviour that smacks of dividing and denigrating people on their looks, but there is a huge gulf between young bastards who enjoy racist banter because they were dropped on their heads at birth, and an old man who is simply a product of his generation. Dr.Paul is an honest-to-goodness gentleman of the highest calibre in essence tainted only by his generation's casual disregard for simple politeness and respect in handling different races. Compare him to his cohorts, and he comes out looking like a saint. If that is not enough, then tough.


As for civil rights, he champions civil liberties for all, and not for a select group as it is the case with some "civil rights" movements. You cannot implement biased education and employment practices to the benefit of one group over another and call it civil rights. Just as you cannot form an anti-defamation league and then defame everyone else except for your own religion. I understand there had to be such movements in a society that grossly favoured the majority and never gave equality a chance, but I think that time has passed and it will never come back with RP at the helm.


Granted, there are leeches crawling out of the scum to attach themselves to RP, and I expect they will probably be used sometime to tar him  - I was flabberghasted to see a fucking Ann Coulter column on his campaign site when I went there to contribute, but you have got to understand that he is attracting ALL KINDS of people and uniting them in these common causes which is nothing short of amazing: To stop the daylight robberies of the entire World by the banks, the Fed, and the bailed-out corporations. To stop the military industrial complex, to strengthen, not weaken America's own defence which they are presently doing by using up young men and women in useless wars abroad and inciting hatred. To stop interference from the special interest groups and powerful lobbyists that seek to pervert the rule of law and reward criminal regimes like Israel within and outside the USA, dictating American foreign policies to benefit themselves. Whether you are black, red, brown, asian, white, mixed, or protestant, jewish, catholic, muslim, atheist, buddhist.... Whatever you are, if you are a decent person of conscience wishing to live in peace and properity with your neighbours, depite your differences, then you will have found a home with Dr.Paul. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:01 | 1979175 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

Good post.

I don't disagree with most of your post. 
I'm just trying to make some of you understand that people who are not white are viscerally affected by his view against the Civil Rights Act.

Take whatever it is that you cherish most...  I don't know what that is.  But take that.  And now pretend that Ron Paul spoke out against it. 

There are things that are more important than money...  and for those of us of color, we really understand what a lack of liberty is.  We have dealt with it for hundreds of years.  And it isn't piddly little things like needing a social security card or getting frisked for an airplane.  It was being shot with firehoses and lynched and raped and enslaved.  This is visceral...  and no apologist language will ever overcome this.

Again, I don't hate RP.  There is a lot there to like.  But there is one thing that I look at with horror, and it's his Civil Rights ideas.

I've come to realize that many white people really don't understnad these thoughts, because it's not part of your culture.  Much like I don't really understand sexism as much as a woman might, because although I can think of it in the abstract, I've never been a victim.  But I have been victimized, and victimized a lot, due solely to my color.

And thus I will always cringe when I hear people fantasize about how much more "free" I'll be without the Civil Rights Act.  Because to date, I still have yet to see an instance where this freedom simply materialized in world history, but I'm happy to have examples... This doesn't mean that a strong Central Govt will protect me.  It won't.  In fact, for most of America, the strong Central Govt was the chief perpetrator against my kind.  But the Civil Rights Act was one area where we were finally helped.

at this point I'd probably take RP over all other current candidates save maybe John Huntsman, and just hope and pray that he wouldn't be able to get his Civil Rights ideas into law...  but I'd be nervous. 

I'll do what I do every year.  vote for Denis Kucinich.  Wasting my vote.  But I won't vote for O (didn't last time either) and I don't think that RP has a chance despite how well some of his ideas resonate... if he gets the R nod I'll be surprised but I'll come right back here and admit my error.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:27 | 1979273 trav7777
trav7777's picture

nature is your worst enemy.  Stop blaming white people for your failures

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 14:06 | 1979471 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

It is clear we have much in common but I wish I could understand your fears completely about that particular legislation, because I think they are unfounded in this day and age of superstars and celebrities of many different races - the trendsetters, role models, and symbols of success. If the loss of the civil rights legislation were to impact negatively on the most influential people in America, do you think they would stand still? In my opinion, a country with a strong sense of civil liberty for its citizens guarantees fundamental rights for all, and there are enough race related legislations on the statutes to prevent devolution. It is not an issue.


Anyway, I don't think a vote for Denis Kucinich is a wasted vote. He is certainly a man I respect. Look, I have no illusions about the dubious nature of the average politician, but I do wish you would reconsider and vote for Dr.Paul. If you have to judge a man, then you must judge him by his deeds, not his words. His devotion to his profession to save human beings, and his record on protecting the rights of Americans speak volumes. The alternatives are grim, disgusting human leeches who promise and say pretty things about peace, decency, the rule of law, and the interests of the people, then do the exact opposite. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:42 | 1979949 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

"for those of us of color, we really understand what a lack of liberty is.  We have dealt with it for hundreds of years. "


What you fail to understand is that liberty is not something that anyone else can grant you. Liberty is nothing more than the manifestation of the ideals you are willing to fight for.

You can be denied freedom, but not liberty. Your liberty can only be willfully surrendered by you.

Using your own "black history in America" example: There is NO WAY I would have been relegated to slavery in the 1700's. The second my African father tried to sell me onto that boat I would have peeled his face off with my bare hands, and he would have learned who was really in charge of my life.

During this proces, I may have even ended up shot and killed, but any person who understands liberty understands that they have the right to die on THEIR terms, and not anyone else's...

Liberty is the power of personal choice. Freedom is the follow-on effect when people choose embrace their liberty, and use its enormous power productively and positively. 





Wed, 12/14/2011 - 20:48 | 1981331 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Civil rights morphed into racial favoritism, equal opportunity into equal outcomes -- sorry, but I believe in meritocracy, NOT affirmative action.

Every time a person of color or the female/gay sex gets a promotion, everyone wonders whether it was deserved or if it's just filling some quota.  Racial condecension by the Progressive/Socialist/Decepticrats is STILL racism, because the underlying premise is that such folks cannot succeed without help from whitey.  I for one, would be extremely pissed off to be receiving such "special treatment," and so should you.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:04 | 1979184 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Slave status?

Are you that stupid?  The civil rights act was one of the worst pieces of legislation ever passed.

Nature decides your status, not RP

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:51 | 1978449 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Despite the venue (which is unpopular, even outside the MSM crowd) I am digging his demeanor about "hey the monetary stuff is bad, but loss of civil liberties is just as frightening"

Thats how a president acts. They dont talk about how successful they were about extracting 1.5M in tax payer money givving "history tutoring" to Freddie Mac. They Dont talk about how proud they were to serve organizing the Winter Olypics in Utah.

TSA/Homeland should not become a jobs program to improve the economy at the expense of civil liberties. The tax code was just the beginning of this stuff. "Those who sacrifice a little liberty just to give somebody a make work job will lose both and deserve neither"

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:43 | 1978407 ACjourneyman
ACjourneyman's picture

Good, need to get rid of soon to be worthless fiat.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:43 | 1978408 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

like trading in something of real use and value for whatever the hot beanie baby currency of the day happens to be.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:43 | 1978409 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:46 | 1978428 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

The dollar still has plenty of room to run before Ben warms up his helio.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:51 | 1978459 jwthomps
jwthomps's picture

Most things that must happen will happen, but very often, not today.

Those 'not today' things is where I have lost a lot of money.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:44 | 1978413 longonSpam
longonSpam's picture

This would be where the small calibres come in to assist with delivery

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:30 | 1978718 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

I would use a large calibre so that I could also collect intrest owed.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:45 | 1978419 pepperspray
pepperspray's picture


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:45 | 1978420 fuu
fuu's picture

There's a christmas rally going on, in my stacks bitchez.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:45 | 1978422 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

sell to survive.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:50 | 1978453 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

then hedge funds find out that others have had the exact same positions as them and they have to sell. Selling begets more selling...


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:45 | 1978423 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

taking some clownbux to the silver store today to pick up a few more maple leafs

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:27 | 1979020 I Got Worms
I Got Worms's picture

Problem is, will they still have any? I'm about 99% sure my shop will be out by lunch today (and I don't get paid til tomorrrow). :-(

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:46 | 1978425 j0nx
j0nx's picture

More proof that a good chunk of the cost of oil is speculation. We'd all be paying $2.50 a gallon for gas if taking delivery was a prerequisite of purchase. Somehow nobody ever talks about this in the news though as J6P would get seriously pissed every time gas rounded $3.00.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:56 | 1978481 crazyv
crazyv's picture

You do realize that every short seller has the option of forcing a long to take delivery?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:59 | 1978493 j0nx
j0nx's picture

Wtf does that have to do with the price of tea in china?? They aren't so it doesn't. I'm saying make it MANDATORY. No option.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:10 | 1978572 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Except for 1 thing: US now exports all the gasoline it won't consume. So when prices drop there's a hungry world with fists full of dollars ready to lap up what we don't consume

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:08 | 1978556 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

So a good chunk of the ~$85 per barrel of marginal production in the DW GOM is speculation?? Wow, that is good to know...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:46 | 1978427 Bazooka
Bazooka's picture


Equities Down = Gold + Silver Down
( vice versa)

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:49 | 1978444 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

They will print They have to. There is a big budget deficit to fund.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:00 | 1978886 viahj
viahj's picture

there's a budget?  when did that happen?  i thought it was just spend spend spend until it all blows up.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:11 | 1978955 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Well there is that too. I should have said an illusionary budget deficit.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:46 | 1978430 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT, THIS IS ALL BY DESIGN.  I DO NOT BUY ANY OF THIS FOR A SECOND.  No group of people is as incompetent as we have been led to believe they are in Europe.  Hang tight; this is corruption of the highest order by the US banking cartel.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:49 | 1978448 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Yes, it is interesting isn't it that these European Banks desperate for cash always wait until the US markets are open before they start dumping commodities.  Sometimes they even wait until the middle of the night when no major markets are open before they try to sell assets to raise cash.  Interesting approach.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:54 | 1978471 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yep, done on purpose, all of it.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:04 | 1978523 Rodolfito
Rodolfito's picture

Agreed. The goal of all of this is One World Government, to strip all of us of our little wealth and to make slaves of the surviving 500,000.

Thanks to ZH and all for a unique site.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:12 | 1978959 SymforniX
SymforniX's picture

I believe the number you were looking for is "500,000,000".  That is, if you were referencing the Georgia guide stones...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:19 | 1978991 Rodolfito
Rodolfito's picture

Yes, I meant 500,000,000, from the Georgia Guidestones. thanks.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:46 | 1978432 FranSix
FranSix's picture

Hasn't Operation Twist already failed miserably?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:53 | 1978468 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Maybe for you and me.  Oh, wait a minute, if that's the case TPTB think it's an overwhelming success...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:47 | 1978434 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Yeah.  Burning your furniture to keep warm is always a winning strategy.

What are institutions going to do when they've sold everything of value into the waiting arms of creditor nations who are quite happy to find a use for their suddenly questionable mountains of trade-surplus dollars?

Either Bernanke gets busy handing out sacks of cash or the end will be upon us.  Either way, buying hard assets at firesale prices now seems like a good move.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:05 | 1978532 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Been sayin for years

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:47 | 1978436 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Better start printing soon uncle Ben, or you will be emergency printing. Of course with the  Euro collapsing and American companies loaded with cash  they should be able to buy just about anything with a strong dollar. Bully for them.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:50 | 1978451 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Problem will be who the hell buys what American companies produce when they cannot afford it? Strong dollar today, economic collapse tomorrow.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:51 | 1978458 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

not that i'll figure out why...   but something about the absence of even the mere mention of QE in yesterday's statement doesn't feel right.

bastards all.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:03 | 1978518 youngman
youngman's picture

That is because they are doing it under the table..through the back a paper sack...the term QE is politically incorrect...but flooding the market with dollars either printed or with a survival for the elites

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:48 | 1978438 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

DXY up to 80 but this is just comparing the main s**t to other s**t.

Keep stacking physical silver.

I have an amount of worthless fiat toilet paper standing by for bargain valuations.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:58 | 1978479 Paper CRUSHer
Paper CRUSHer's picture

Jus' keep in mind my Paper buddy that ol' Shalom Ben may release the Kraken  (i.e. all o'those excess bank reserves  $1T + money muliplier)and we'll be headin for the hills

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:49 | 1978440 youngman
youngman's picture

It is amazing to watch..if this is the final liquidation from the drowning investors...we are entering a new world...and its not going to be pretty...government checks bouncing...riots...gangs..looting...theft..and outright wil happen so fast no government will be able to save themselves...and the bad actors on the Iran...Russia.....China..wll be playing too...making it worse to gain power..

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:58 | 1978490 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

plus 1 youngman

Once this 3 card monty game stops ...Be armed

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:02 | 1978509 StrangerThanFiction
StrangerThanFiction's picture

Very cheerful indeed.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:14 | 1978590 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

It'll be just like...Central America since the 80s.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:50 | 1978454 KickIce
KickIce's picture

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:00 | 1978470 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Dude you need to research better. That is a phoney quote. Jefferson never ever said that. He hated banks yes, but he never said that.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:07 | 1978548 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I'm sticking with Jefferson.  The founders get discounted because they lived in primitive times.  Re tyranny and banking, little has changed.  IMO, the founders were incredibly intelligent and much of what they were experiencing applies today.  Who ever said it, it certainly fits our present day.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:20 | 1978631 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Jefferson wrote something almost, but not quite, what you stated.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:24 | 1978666 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I agree with you about the founding fathers being brilliant. I am just saying that he never said that.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:08 | 1978927 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Fair enough, and thanks for the correction below Falcon.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 12:28 | 1979028 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

I'm pretty sure Ben Franklin said that

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:17 | 1978614 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

The oft misquoted text comes from the closing statement Jefferson wrote in a thank you letter to John Taylor in 1816. The exact quote is:

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity in the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:50 | 1978456 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Must find.....liquidity...parched...thirsting to afloat on sea of fiat....yet not a drink....

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:51 | 1978457 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

In other words. If you are over leveraged hard assets versus cash you must sell to stay solvent. If you are properly leveraged with cash and still enjoy cash reciepts get ready to BUY MORE GOLD!!!! Steady as she goes boy's and girls. Steady as she goes. Just like every other month when the PM's suffered massive paper games someone (Russia, China) stepped in to BTFD via the feedback loop!!! The central banks are playing with your mind here. They are convincing people (and forcing them) to dump hard assets while they come in to pick your pocket free of REAL MONEY! DO NOT BE FOOLED! The printing is about to resume. This is simply "commodity control" amoung other things.

God help us all!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 10:55 | 1978476 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Yep, Russia, China and India are licking their chops about now.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!