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Compare And Contrast To The Great Depression: In Three Parts
Every year, at about this time (roughly just before the Fed launches on yet another monetary easing crusade) we get requests to decompose current events into their constituent pieces and present these in parallel with the period in time between 1929 and 1939 better known as the Great Depression. Obviously, doing so in its entirety would require at least a fat paperback, and considering that the average Zero Hedge reader has an attention span that is very stretched when presented with a lengthy bullet point, we fear such efforts may be lost on most. Furthermore, why reconstruct the wheel when it was precisely a year ago (and remember: 2011 is a carbon copy of 2010, so it is effectively yesterday) that Guggenheim's Scott Minerd did just that and in a far more politically and grammatically correct way than we ever could, not to mention with that many more pretty charts. So without further ado, here is Scott Minerd's compare and contrast of the Second Great Depression (the one we are now debating whether or not it has become a recession or not once again) to the original source.
Part 1: ‘Compared to the Incomparable’ (pdf)
Part 2: ‘The Fed, Now and Then’ (pdf)
Part 3: ‘Following the Mistakes of a Hero’ (pdf)
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depression bitchez!
It will be worse this time.
"It will be worse this time."
Indeed.. the country is flat broke and in debt, the prospects for growth are bleak, the Constitutional foundation has collapsed, the cultural foundations have crumbled, the internal conflicts are much worse and the external threats are every bit as severe, if not worse.
Hard times ahead.
What external threats??? Are you referring to the banksters who murdered 2 US presidents (that we know of)?? If not, you're brainwashed. The US has thousands of nukes; you don't even need an army.
man, ppl are dense
JFK and Lincoln? Or were you talking about McKinley? I've even heard Zachary Taylor thrown out there as a possibility.
Seems to be very pro-keynesian policies. As a contrast, time to revisit this research piece from the Mackinac Center:
"Great Myths of the Great Depression"
http://www.mackinac.org/archives/1998/SP1998-01.pdf
But, But, if the markets keep burning shorts and goes up, insn't that the economy? Big Ben thinks.
Besides Ben needs to deflate the debt of the Banksters and the FED even more. That's deflation, right?
Isn't this what Big Ben, Elliott Wave,(asshole) call deflation. When wages go down and your bills go up. Eh.
...and considering that the average Zero Hedge reader has an attention span that is very stretched when presented with a lengthy bullet point......
Did I read that correctly? Is Tyler turning on his own audience? Can't really blame him....
By the way, as one guy writing a financial blog, I have determined that there is no fucking way tyler is one person. The amount of stuff he puts out..... you'd have to be some kind of super-human meth and ritalin freak to have enough stamina to do that.
Unless MAYBE he is the editor, and he has 3 or 4 subordinates searching the blogosphere and news sphere for tidbits, feeding him info and preparing posts for him to finish, etc.
If I am wrong then big fucking kudos to you tyler. I don't know how you do it.
There are many Tylers.
I think was more a playful jab. Sort of like when Bart Simpson makes fun of Fox.
Seriously wtf is this shit?
It concludes bernanke got everything right? Um how about he and his predecessors not fuelling the speculative bubbles in the first place? If this is the liquidity trap Benny claims it is how about not paying interest on excess reserves that he just pumped into the system so banks have no choice but to start lending instead of hoarding? How about recognising the reality of biflation and demanding Obama take action to lessen the crushing food and fuel inflation instead of making bullshitty prosaic statements about how "gold is not money?"
Benny and friends learned a few lessons from the 30s and Milton Friedman, but what they didn't learn is that bailing everything out not only fuels a lot of moral hazard (the tumour at the heart of the system as my friend NNT puts it), but merely transfers the danger from the corporate and institutional level, where the fallout is relatively minor, to the governmental level where the damage will be ginormous. The weight of sovereign debt, and the extent of debasement gets greater and greater... Creditors do not like seeing their holdings debased, and because American creditors control America's oil inflows and manufactured goods inflows infuriating them destabilises the entire global system.
THAT is the story that will be in the history books in 50 years. And you heard it here first on Zero Hedge.
Peace, brothers and sisters
http://azizonomics.com/2011/08/15/why-qe-didnt-cause-hyperinflation-2/
http://azizonomics.com/2011/08/25/team-america-world-police/
"Gold is money, Everything else is credit" -J.P. Morgan..
by Wolf Richter
Read the rest:
Link: Dear Ben, Please Print Us More Money
"THAT is the story that will be in the history books in 50 years. And you heard it here first on Zero Hedge."
If they are still writing and publishing new history textbooks in 50 years, maybe things aren't going to be that bad.
Serious.
"The fact that the Fed stands ready with another round of quantitative easing, and that interest rates are at historically low levels, leads me to believe the economy will avoid the perils of a “double-dip” recession in the near term."
Thinking like that calls into question the rest of his suppositions.
Thanks for the link.
"But unprecedented political bungling instead prolonged the misery for over 10 years'
We'll be lucky to come out of this next one with our skins much less survive 10 years of misery.
What external threats?
Aggressive Islamic fundamentalism and jihadi terrorism, espionage, criminal aliens, parasitic viruses, third world asymmetric conventional, unconventional and nuclear attack, hostile economic and monetary action, and hostile cyber action come to mind.
There is no direct military challenge to us from another nation, but the economic damage done to us through extrinsic activity and hostilities is considerable. We do not live in a world where we can prosper in isolation.
We tend to get carried away, and we often screw up but either you get the bear or the bear gets you.
And it seems idiots on the other end of our foreign policy actions almost always end up better off than where they started.
I don’t know though, things are so FUBAR that I don’t think it that any action or inaction is going to matter much in the end.
That “long enough time line” seems to be looking pretty short.
And yeah, I would include the Rothschilds, and probably a good number of the Bilderbergs in the external category. Morgans, Rockeffellers et al qualify from the internal perspective.
Aggressive Islamic fundamentalism and jihadi terrorism, espionage, criminal aliens, parasitic viruses, third world asymmetric conventional, unconventional and nuclear attack, hostile economic and monetary action, and hostile cyber action come to mind.
Almost none of those are appropriately called "external" threats. I'd grant what you call "third world asymmetric attack," but even that won't be external in another few years, given what's happening to the standard of living in the USA.
I'd say the big threat won't be among the things you mention, but how we as a nation choose to respond to them.
I'm not aiming this at previous posters, but it's worth saying.
Most of the time, I live in Britain (Americans: also called England-cester, Queenshireville, or Fagland. We are next to France, which is why we drink. We are not German, which is why we drink cheap stuff.)
Them ayrab mooslemey terrists have killed a shedload less people over in Europe than American-funded terrorists ever have. The IRA here, Operation Gladio in Italy, Belgium's 'Cellules Communistes Combattantes' (about as communist as my butt, which is a noncommunist manly butt) - and on and on. US money, US explosives, US guns, US training. All thrown against Nato allies. Democracies. Or what passes for them.
Got no love for islam, but - whether or not you throw in to the mix that 9/11 and 7/7 were false flags - a moslem's a lot less likely to kill me than an American is, so long as I don't try to bomb the bejeezus out of their kids, which I hear makes them all 'blah blah allah yee yee yee' and unreasonably snippy.
Incidentally, I've worked in the States a lot, traveling there for different European firms. Before 9/11, it was pretty much normal that I could walk into a bar in any city in the country and some pissed guy in a trucker's baseball cap would talk about how awesome the IRA was, and how a friend of his totally gave them money, he was such a cool dude. Now it only happens in every other bar. Americans have really come on a long way.
We are not German
------------------------------------------------------------
English are german, this must be corrected.
Oh, it will be. They are drawing up plans. Neatly, and on time ;o)
PS +1. I gave you a vote.
Although (sorry, sorry, tedious history graduate at work here, it doesn't wash out...) it turns out that the population of Britain is rather un-Germanic in its genetic markers. Much less than somewhere like Holland, Switzerland or Belgium. We share a lot of genes with the Irish, legacy Iberian populations, and the original hunter-gatherers who settled in the British Isles after the ice age. Basically, we're a mix of redhaired and swarthy types with bits and bobs of other people thrown in. Bit of Celt, bit of Roman, bit of Viking, bit of French, bit of Dane. The Queen's German, though, so you get double points for that.
I think you meant the Irish share genes with Brits.
No. When Saxons invaded Britain, they imposed an apartheid on the local population, celtic people.
The consequence: english are german.
Whereever you go, it is always the same people who seems at the root of the issue.
And indeed, they are german elsewhere than in Britain and Germany.
The US population largest minority, if not majority, is german.
The IRA still exists?
Sure, if only because Congress hasn't confiscated them yet.
A very dark part of the soul laughs at this because I, like many on here, have warned against all this for over a decade (I'm sure many on here for much longer).
Then I recognize that this mortal coil is also in peril and the laugh kind of turns into a coughing fit, which in turn changes into tears and the circle is completed with more laughter because really what else can you do?
We're so Effing doomed.
Cheer the fuck up and get your heads straight. Thar be dragons, yes. But starting this process from our comparatively comfy current spot with a 'woe is we' attitude is a plan to fail. You are sovereign. Go where your heart directs post haste. H O L D F A S T
Yea Bolweevil!!!
You say that so well----this is a great time to find out what one's survival skills are and hone them up where they are lacking. Your comment touches the wonderful moment of 'is' that makes being human special. Bravo!!!
Thanks for the straight talk om
Hear Hear Bolweevil!
This period of perceived relative calm is, I believe, scaring the bejeesus out of rational minds.
Oh, and, the irrational ones, too.
Agreed
this analysis is so f*****g mainstream i don't know where to begin to criticise it...
unemployment 9.9%? sh*t, UE stats in the '30's included those employed by the gov't..
and on, and on...
i guess if you want to keep you job at Guggenheim, you hafta temper the analysis so the boat rocking looks large from the inside, but not so much to anyone with a non-keynsian brain...
at least we can keep track of the proceedings in the echo chamber with sh*t like this...
sheesh.....
I'm not worried about the manufactured external threats. However, we have a whole different cultural attitude this time around and that's what concerns me. During the first depression it appears that most of the population of had this "we're all in this together" attitude. In today's world there's a much stronger "I've got mine screw you attitude" and I don't think that prevailing trend will be helpful.
In addition, we also have people tattooing themselves up in all kinds of menacingand intimidating ways and wearing their "Tap-Out" shirts and logos on their cars, and the whole "I'm a bad mother-fucker" undercurrent running underneath things might not work out so well this time. But that's just me and James Kunstler concerned about these things I guess.
no, i'm concerned about it too...In Studs Terkel's "Hard Times", GDI americans told Studs (what a BITCHEN name...) that they wondered how "modern" americans would fare in a GDII in the "mean" 1970's lol...
If this were happening in a 70's style america, the country might just go "back to the land MAN" (en masse) and raise wheat germ, "herb", tofu, sprouts...
BUt now? In a "I'm not here to make friends...I'm here to WIN" amerika??I picture a "post Katrina" on steroids, a twist of tat festooned, transgressive "Batitude" with a Rodney King chaser, fuck yeah...
our countrymen have become particularly stupid and full of themselves...
"Decadent", in a word
Yep. Big cities won't be a good place to be.
Big cities are already not a good place to be.
You're right. But let's rebuild better this time. Let's never let an oligarchy enslave us and hold secrets again. Let's make a truly better world this time.
"LET'S DO ITTTTTTTT!!!!"
This one splits the country. Texas, Alaska, and Hawaii go totally independent. The 13 old Confederate States along with much of the mid-western States becomes a natural resource rich nation. The North East little will retain the old United States of America name but it will be a copy of the failed European welfare state emulating Detroit. The West will be taken over by Mexican Drug gangs and will be called the Northern Mexico region.
They'll probably push far up the San Jaoquin valley, but will encounter major opposition at numerous choke points along the coast. I draw the line at Rincon. Carlos don't surf.
The west, not the west coast, is already firmly under the control of the citizenry. We have our local and state governments, and our Sheriffs. Nobody in the Heartland gives a rat's ass what the rest of the nation does. The average Joe here can shoot a man in the head from a quarter mile. Then, we have the good shooters. We have the coal mines, ANFO, food, oil and gas, regional refineries, millions of guns, and some badass national guard units. (Who happen to work for the Governors)
Read Molon Labe and you might get the picture. If somebody wants our land, all they have to do is........"Come and take it."
read my lips: my mother doesn't like people to talk about rats that way
and, if you think the hallmark of citizenship is being able to shoot a man in the head @ 440 yrds, but are so insecure as to have nothing but the "we...we...we..." it is only b/c you are still a mama's boy and haven't yet learned to stand on your own two feet, think for yourself, and work toward a future where farmboys don't grow up hallucinating the murder of those who are not "from the Heartland"
i would hope you discover something of worth in yourself, at least above the level of becoming a "crack shot"
i also hope you have not become imprisoned by an eternal game of narrow-minded checkers down to the store w/ the sody pop, by people who never question their own point of view, and who have somehow trained you to do the same
good luck! sure sounds like you are gonna need some!
Mr. Rat, I can assure you that I'm the most non-violent guy you could ever wish to meet. Evidently, my culture is so different from yours that you see my ability to defend myself as "murder of those not from the heartland". Sir, I apologize for the misunderstanding. It is nothing like that at all. I never question another persons motives or point of view. I deal only with actions or behaviors.
My post was in response to another post that postulated a possible violent take-over of our western states by foreign nationals. I was simply pointing out the cultural facts that will prevent that from ever happening. I will not surrender. Yet, unless attacked, I am a threat to no one.
Perhaps you live in a place where you hope the police will protect you? I live in a place where the police know that I will help to protect them.
As Robert Heinlein observed, "An armed society is a polite society".
Since I don't wish to spoil your image of me, I'll admit that I'm barefoot, un-educated, and wearing bib-overalls. :)
Kind Regards, -Shine
how do you know your culture is so different from mine? i read more heinlein than you've ever touched during one short year in the army, in vietNam, killer-boy peace lover
i meant what i siad about your conditioning; if you think your 22:24 post was written by a person who understands the way of non-violence, you may be correct, it is not, theoretically impossible, from what i read. but more likely just another shithead who insists on having it "both ways" no matter whaaaaat...
and don't be overly concerned abt your "image", here, at this point. i still say, from what you have written, that w/out the collective "sheriff" and "national guard" and "crack shots everywhere", there would only be you, and a very controlling mother. no other threats, nobody to protect mom from, either, except your own latent violence and incipient psychosis
and if someone postulates the second coming or invasion of the body snatchers, i hope you have enough collective violence in your "community" to respond to those fantasies "appropriately" too, killer-boy peace lover. make yer mama p-r-o-u-d!!!!!
As Robert Heinlein observed, "An armed society is a polite society".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong observation then.
is it just me or does it sound like them duke boys mighta sold out to boss hogg, here?
it may be too complex for 4 people but them duke boys didn't usta work with the pigman and his law-boyz, but now, i guess mommy likes it better, that way...
Wow you squelched even your own conversation thread.
Nice set up. And I suppose you guys got a few ham radio operators out your way? Will come in handy I tells ya. Shortwave is gonna be mighty useful again.
Mexican drug gangs will be strung up by their bollocks if they get as far as Idaho, Montana, & Wyoming.
The residents of the American Redoubt won't put up with their kind.
At all.
They may take over San Diego, LA, Las Vegas, and Arizona/New Mexico but they will quickly starve or move north and meet deadly resistance in the interior of California and Northern Nevada. No way they will make it into the Sierras or much farther north then Stockton.
How do you know they're not already there?
Decriminalize all drugs and the drug gangs will have no money, no power. Simple as that.
You far right gun-nuts make me laugh with your funny comments. Do trailer parks have communal wifi or are you guys using the library 'puters?
hey asshole do you know what the constitution is?
ever hear of the 2nd amendment?
unfortunately, here in nyc the local goverment has essentially become an unconstitutional entity re: gun rights. amongst other issues.
if you are US citizen you have a godamn motherfucking right to bear arms! in a Park ave apt or marginalized in a trailerpark!
the gov wants to strip your right to bear arms and neuter you just in case your dumbass ever wakes up and realizes you have been robbed by taxation with misrepresentaion and crimimals such as Bernank illegally administering illegally obtained taxes from your said dumbass to his rich pals. like Henry Ford once said, it is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. fortunately Henry Ford didn't live long enough to encounter the new breed of American sheeple that has no excuse at this stage of the game, but to know. oh well, maybe one day they'll all wake up, with guns......
got it?
Not that you're wrong in general about guns, but when will we admit that the fallacy of American exceptionalism has been exposed, and that the fallacy includes the Constitution and our so-called founding fathers? Defending a point of view by saying, "Constitution says so!" is an intellectual non-starter.
Fallible words written by fallible men.
Do you confederate hillbillies actually think you have the brains to be even recourse rich?
Face it, the worl has moved past coal mining with pic axes and wheel barrels.
It might even be a little more disorderly than that, the break up that is.
Long John,
You, as well as most here, know full well that the New York City (Manhattan Finance/Wall Street) to Virginia (Gov't Employees & Contractors) to District of Columbia triangle is the textbook example of subsidization, and that neither Detroit nor any other part of the nation can even hold a candle to what this triangle is subsidized by, in the form of a raw torrent/flood of taxpayer blood.
I'd imagine that 85% plus of the 5.3 trillion BernankBux printed since 2008 have gone towards the triangle, while the remaining 15% have trickled into other parts.
The triangle is the new bastard step-child of the Amerikranski Experiment, and a true ward of the state.
And they clamor for more free loving from Oblahma, Jeetner & The Bernank! More, more, more!
Now that they've essentially maimed the taxpayers, and the taxpayers are producing little flesh, they will (and are, in fact) turn[ing] on their own, in the battle for the scraps that remain.
It's about time the tri-states got our money back. Should I post the link again to show you who was subsidized before TARP and QE? I hope the south secedes, the average southerner is in for a rude awakening. Our "Progressive laws" protect you against big business/money trampling upon your rights. Watching the HBO documentary Gasland, I was cracking up at the hillybillies lighting the water coming out of their faucets on fire. If only the EPA didn't exist...
The dead weight flows to where the subsidies are and/or go further... If there is a split and the grass is greaner some place else, then expect the swarms to soon follow. Further, the more severe the initial hardship on these classes of people, the more likely they (me) will pack up for greener pastures... presuming of course the majestical northeast is the bastion of opportunity (I have my doubts if you couldn't tell).
In the end, the population densities of the east and west coasts will be their undoing... much of the south and midwest is sparsely populated and has an abundance of life supporting resources. The steel and concrete jungles, not so much... While subsidy payments may be less, the standard of living won't change much... not the same elsewhere...
ugh, you are probably right
Sadly, this is very true. During the great depression 1.0 we were a self sufficient agricultural nation with tight knit social networks. People were much more selfless and kind to their fellow man (according to stories I've heard over the years from folks who lived through it). We were not a self centered, disconnected, materialistic society. Religion played a huge part in peoples lives and played heavily in informing their decisions. I have a horrible feeling that we are FUCKED this time. I hope I'm wrong.
the millerites didn't fare too well, with that religion stuff.
"During the great depression 1.0 we were a self sufficient agricultural nation with tight knit social networks"
Yes, but today's social networks are even far more social than during the days of the great D and it's all about sharing nowadays.
If you are hungry, Facebook even allows you to share a Big Mac with your friends online, free of charge!
It's called progress.
oh, yes! and our "evolution" will now be "social" b/c we have these very vehicles of progress
wtf could possibly go wrong? L0L!!!
You're suggesting that the best way of helping starving people during the Great Collapse is to ensure that they still have internet access and a FaceBook account (perhaps accessed by a new iPhone?), and then to buy them a corporate profiteering manufactured food item?
Sorry guys, we're fucked.
Damn impatience..double post
It has been designed that way.
Obama is announcing new fiscal stimulus after Labor Day. The markets will rally until then.
Homey be havin' to break the Benjamins loose from the Republicons -- gud luk wit dat!
Bush Licken Bitchez!
This kind of thing always fails. The Great Depression was global.
The population of planet Earth in 1929 was about 2 Billion people. The 30 years since 1900 had added only 400 million people.
Oil powered tractors and harvesters were just beginning to eliminate the need for so many humans on farm payrolls and so we got big unemployment numbers. That had nothing to do with policy inferior to Bernanke's. That was oil; not monetary maneuvers.
Roads sucked everywhere because oil (aka asphalt) had not yet become pervasive. Commerce sucked because of it.
We now have 7 Billion people and 30 years ago there were 4.4 billion. We added not 400 million in that 30 year segment like in 1900-1930. No, we tacked on 2.6 BILLION.
There are roads now. There is Social Security now, globally, with other nations having their version. There is welfare and food stamps now. Who in hell is going to go and sell apples on a street corner in NYC in 2011 because he has no job. That happened in the 1930s.
And so, no comparison of value.
You'll be surprised at how many will be selling their Apple's iPad/iPhone/iXXXX on street corners all over the world.
LMFAO, sadly ZH is not letting me give you the big ups, so I shall go old school +1
Ditto. Tried to green arrow* the same comment but the site wouldn't let me.
* that's not a sex thing**
** unless you think Oliver Queen is a pussy. (Suck it, DC Comics. You knew what you were doing when you gave him that merkin-like goatee beard.)
100% correct!
Actually, today they have this site called eBay. And for everyone selling and iPhone, there is a buyer.
maybe the buyer of iPhones is the FED, to pump AAPL past 400.
when it is given to them, why would sheeple work to eat? THE FOOTBALL TEAM where I live just quit because they are bunch of pussies who dont want to work hard for the end result. (ACHIEVEMENT!) So the school board fired him(the NEW varsity COACH) and asked our varsity players how they could apease them to get them to play again. This is where we are headed as society(quiters who think they deserve thier hearts desire).
i'm sure there could be no imaginable "other side" to this story. no bit of info that you left out that would change the "moral" from "the players are a bunch of pussies" to: "the school board is a bunch of pussies"
or are you in the habit of blaming children (other people's too) for the shortcomings of adults in their lives?
maybe the coach got fired for actually thinking that football practice is the end, not the means, and that it can't be fun, b/c well, children should not enjoy their games in high school. they should pretend everything is the end of the fuking world, like most of the losers, here, tonight
whatever happens, make certain that no one fails to take it sooo seriously that they want to kill people or at least protect mommy or whatever ruined their childhood and made them so dualistic via conditioning
if TSHTF i hope to enjoy it! i already do! the confusion is wonderful! everything "wrong" is always "out there" and how scary it must be to consider the "in here" as hugely problematic, and if you have a short-wave radio, man you're gonna have it made!
if you're capable of standing on your own two feet without a weapon, and you're not afraid to die. you might just be free enough to enjoy not only the Show, but your own life while participating in this madness, w/out giving yourself up to the "suggestion" that hopelessness is an option, or that nothing matters, or it must be a fight to the death or some other such nonsense
if it is, it is. so what? why pretend that it "must happen this way" when you can't think straight in the first place? if you don't know the diff between "it might happen this way" and it must happen this way" you will certainly have a lot of company, here
until then, you will pretty much be stuck w/: wtf happened to "our" varsity?
poor you!
why don't you coach the team? too busy "earning" your sheeple din-din?
what if you did it, and refused to be paid for helping these kids? would you then be "suspect" as someone giving someone some "nourishment"? sure sounds like it!
whatever happens, don't forget to blame the children: the 14-15-16-17-y.o. kids who just want to have fun together and try to be cool around the other kids and the cheerleaders. they must be a bunch of pussies! whatever is the matter with kids, today?
maybe they just gave you and just abt everybody in "our town" a big FUK YOU and you think they're pussies! hahahahaha!
at least they're not fools!
Do you understand that there are people trying to cut welfare and entitlements? Apples are going to be cheaper this time around.
your numbers, population growth 1900-1930: (2bn-1.6bn)/1.6bn=25%
population growth last 30 years: (7bn-4.4bn)/1.6bn=59.1%
no idea where you were going with this, but i think i disproved it.
"Oil powered tractors and harvesters were just beginning to eliminate the need for so many humans on farm payrolls and so we got big unemployment numbers."
i'm going to have to ask ibm's watson about this, but i believe computers may be changing the outlook on the number of employees necessary to provide service jobs.
"Roads sucked .... Commerce sucked because of it."
there was robust global trade before the great depression, protectionist measures impacted this far more than the quality of roads.
SS can be easily replaced with strong family support (this also eliminates costs such as daycare and preparing individual meals).
without welfare and food stamps people may be forced to listen to some religous nut explain salvation before providing food or shelter. i guess that would suck.
"This kind of thing always fails. The Great Depression was global."
are you implying the mess we're in is not global?
my attention span deficit is largely due to my constant inebreation
My attention span deficit is due to the 48 things to do chic smiling at me in the right Browser frame. If only I knew what that fellow in the left browser frame, Dr David Pasternak, would do in this situation...
I don't think we are at the same level as the great depression yet. But if Obama gets a second term in office, look out, all bets are off.
Cut off social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, TANF, AFDC, section 8 housing, and all other government assistance not around in 1930, and see what happens.
COG... lol... we don't have enough fire fighters and fire fighting equipment to handle your proposition...
Every gov that has failed has done so saying to it's citizens 'everything is going to be fine, don't worry, go shopping'... and the next thing you know, poof...gov all gone...
Why would it unfold differently this time?
Greetings from The Humungus! The Lord Humungus! The Warrior of the Wasteland! The Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla!
Yep and to quote the Lord Humungus "No One! No one here gets out alive!" And yes Cranky your right, if it weren't for all those fucking programs I (and all other tax payers) are paying for we would be in a world of shit, more then we are now. Make no mistake this next election is important, we fuck this one up and it is lights out for the USA.
Hey Cranky,
When you receive those benefits just give them to people who need them. This could be the cheapest social insurance you'll ever get and-----everybody will protect you because you are 'in the deal'. Or go ahead and unneccessarily shoot you way out if you want to---------------nothing personal, I would have said thing to this oldman if I had heard him say what you wrote most respectfully om
dude I hit the green arrow without even reading the comment
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SSDI, Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, FHA 3.5% Down Loans (now 90%+ of Mortgage Market), Farm Subsidies, Heating Assistance, Military-Industrial-Finance/WallStreet/Bank-GovernmentWorkers Complex...
...and Credit Cards...
What did I miss (I know this is not a complete list by any measure)?
I listen to scanners in a section of an urban locale - there are so many guns floating around here where there's supposed to be none. Funny that the poor and previously enslaved have neither forgotten nor surrendered their right to bear arms despite the bureaucratic encumbrance preventing it.
Wouldn't our present unemployment numbers now match those during the
great depression if we use the same method to determine unemployment
that they used back then?
Yes, and as another point of fact, the bread lines would actually be longer.
"Yes, and as another point of fact, the bread lines would actually be longer."
...will be longer.
The lines are ~45-million-people long today, or about 15% of the US population.
That's the thing now in America. We want to try to do everything orderly and out of sight, even the modern day 'bread lines,' ie. food stamps. Our current governance and society cannot function with the laws that we have in a disorderly manner.
Shorter introductions, please, Tyler.
TLDR
A big difference I see is the lack of morality....people today will just steal, kill, or whatever to get what they want...back in the depression people would wait in lines for food or a job...that will never happen today...they demand help...they demand food...they demand whatever they want...and they want it now....so this time will be much more violent...and that my friends will be the end of us as a country I think...the gangs will destroy all production and transportation...then its down to just the people...and hungry people at that...just think of a truck delivering food to a Harlem....do you think the people of Harlem will politly stand in line...hell no...they will hijack the bus...kill the drivers and loot the truck...
More wealth to the top 10!
message to the welathy..."choose your servants wisely in 2014"
How about in 2011? Lotta shit's gonna happen this Fall.
Back then, people also knew about punctuation and run on sentences.
"hell no...they will hijack the bus...kill the drivers and loot the truck..."
and probably throw the drivers in the stew pot... and use the truck fuel to cook them with...
Welcome to hell.
My life fades. The vision dims. All that remains are memories. I remember a time of chaos. Ruined dreams. This wasted land. But most of all, I remember The Road Warrior. The man we called "Max".
Unemployment today is 22%.
Davos! Thank you for your efforts over at that other wildly popular blog. I found here through there.
Do employment stats from 1930 and 2011 really compare? Women were not working full time for the most part back then. Just saying.
I read it, and I say Fu@k this Fed ball-licker. Says nothing of the massive dollar destruction and, as such, the pillaging of the middle class over the century. Control for confounding variables, please!
and repeating the fairy tale that the fed was created to stabalize the banking system.
Yes, and promote 'full' employment...
'The Creature From Jeckyl Island' is a great moniker for those bastards...
The bastards know that if they cut social spending the entire country eurpts... Once again decisions have be delayed until there is no decision left to be made...Now events will decide, and what order the events occur in will determine how the collapse proceeds.
Great planners, eh?
Massive gap up in the NY Composite Summation Index
http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/McSumNYSE.html
Bears could be in huge trouble if this uptrend continues.
RT, not complaining about your posts ... but they do seem a bit off topic in this thread...and, does it matter to you if no one here gives a damn about steel stocks or the NY composite summ index? The country is falling apart, or maybe you haven't noticed?
Perhaps you should open a dialog with the HFT computers and the PPT Team?
The summation index is filled with gaps. So gaps are pretty much meaningless.
hey, RT!
i'm w/ you but failing to see the "massive gap up" but maybe you have a different scale or something
what you are addressing seems quite like the "tick" figures you were giving us, just last week, when they were so amazingly negative for those record # of days (11?~~don't remember exactly) anyhow, i wasn't sure what you were getting at here, so i looked it up: McClellan Summation Index - ChartSchool - StockCharts.com
now we have a reversal, and thanks for pointing this out, b/c, with the short interest, who knows?
it's like the storm last weekend where it moved so fast, it just power-washed everything and didn't sit down enuf to cause any big huge problems
here, we have the possibility of a short squeeze which could be a lulu. if there have been few sellers, so far this week on light volume, are they gonna show up to sell into a squeeze? the smart ones will, and they're the ones who've bought the dip and engineered the low-volume melt-up. again. maybe the shorts have covered some already, now
with the short-selling ban still in europe, this was pretty textbook risk on today, in the US i thought, but who knows what da boyz have in mind for tomorrow?
tyler sez we're pretty far above fair value, here, on the S&P, already, so thanks for helping us stay dialed in, here
every day is unique, RT, but this is getting freaking ridiculous, at times, doncha think?
His main issue is that he swallows the government stats on unemployment etc...
I would suggest we are a lot closer to the GD than this analysis demonstrates.
The first few pages regurgitated standard MSM/elementary school history. Roosevelt's policies were working but then the government got scared and thus the economy tanked again in 1937 yadda, yadda, yadda...
After reading such Keynesian bilge water its really hard to take anything seriously in this "article".
you should have read it moron. He is saying that the mistake of 1937 was too much government and that the Obama rhetoric is eerily similar to FDR's. The "mistake " of 1937 was social security and the government intervention into capitalism..but alas I guess it is too much to hope that someone actually reads rather than sees a few bullet points and bases their opinion on preconceived ideas.
my bad
.
I read it all the way through. I did not get the same feeling or understanding that you did. I thought he blamed the Fed for not being loose enough with it's policies in the second dip in 1937 (well he blamed them for not being loose enough in 1929 too).
The only time he bemoans too much government is on Health Care reform. He subscribes to tax cuts and more QE. He is a Keynesian through and through.
Mellon had the right idea but no one would listen to him... as usual... and the pattern of bank bailouts at public expense was firmly entrenched.
"Liquidate them all!"
Look at all the bull rallies we should get. Weeee
F!!k tehm and thier BAC attitude
This has all been so planned. I'm surprised you all don't connect the dots. Yes, it goes back to the underhanded way the FED was created and a compliant Wilson. But it was really the Progressives/Marxists that showed the bankers they could win when the public education system was hijacked by the union/marxists, dumbing down Americans. We used to be number 1 in the world for all things math and science before that time. Now we suck; almost zombified by the wonder of the entitlement society. The propaganda aggrandizing the state and big government has been overwhelming, enabled by the captured in media and the revolving door of corruption in Congress. Very easy in this atmosphere to disregard the Rule of Law; it's everybody for themselves. Just don't get caught if you're a sheeple.
APB,
The dots have been connected by everyone---we are not special. But while we are changing teams---what are we going to do?
I'm just an oldman hellbent on surviving by having fun with all of this chaos---puts a smile on my face each day
Thanks for the post---but, What are we going to do except stand together even if it is only this pretend 'fight club' site that I get much pleasdure from reading In fact, I thank each of you here for tolerating my ignorance and poor manners om
While the rest of you squirm, I sit in TEXAS. I have told you people for over a year to get here. Things are underway so that we will no longer be a part of the nation. In the suffocation of individualism an embolism has formed. 2012 will be the year Obama loses, class warefare ensues to race riots and Texas says "screw you", we will not bail out the states that enabled these central planners and their parasite leeches ahh dependents.
Bottom line: some of you will not make it if entwined with the cockroach (niggers). If you have ability and want to work: come to TEXAS. Good Luck to those of you waiting for the last moment. The extend and pretend is ending soon.
And here ladies and gentlemen, is exhibit A for reasons not to move to Texas.
weinerdog43 enjoy your new neighbors...keep it real:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTUw0vKksGc
How come they keep referring to Texas as Liberia in that video?
My parents live in Tejas.
Fuckin' shithole of hot dirt, assholes, and native Spanish-speakers.
My 'hood in Brooklyn's better. We don't have the hot dirt.
The guy with the fire under his ass is not representative of all Texans. There are some intuitive points that he might have better made.
thank you; we love you guys; you are the armadillos of our BEing
if you see texas gunslinger, tell him slewie has some more dog food coupons for him for sunday after church, ok?
Go Stanford! You hick.
Secession is the only viable option left for Texas at this point.
Assfire,
As a lifelong Texan I hereby strip you of your Texas citizenship for being a full fledged idiot fuckhead. All Texans dream of being their own country again, but few actually believe that it will ever happen. Take your bigotry and almost completed elementary school diploma and move somewhere near a Walmart close to the Branch Davidian compound. Be sure to lick your dog's ass if you get hungry.
This is the 21st Century isn't it?
Facts suck. Your bullshit excusemaking is over. Haa! You know it if you live here.
Atlas has shrugged for you parasites.
Go back to your goat! She just turned over and she may let you screw her if you talk nice.
"All Texans dream of being their own country again, but few actually believe that it will ever happen."
All Mexicans dream of having Texas back as part of Mexico again, but few actually believe that it will ever happen... and Baja, and California, and New Mexico, and...
They've got it already. Borders are just lines on maps. :)
Texas = Quebec w/guns
Suceed from the Union huh? Well, good luck protecting your new border, you guy's can't even protect your Loredo entery point.
Texas is no safe haven, Perry is a RINO and round and round we go.
There will be no Mexico border soon NAFTA, so Texas will be an Island? just sayin..
The Bad Guy.
Another Comparison
Number of Quality TV Shows 2011 - 0
Number of Quality TV Shows 1933 - 0
Nah, Modern Faily is good.
Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman is Good
Better kids shows than in the past