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The Cost Of Obama's Stimulus Plan: $312,500 Per Job (Vote) Created Or Saved (And Guess Who Is Paying It)
For those eager to put some math to the rhetoric coming from the White House over the president's jobs creation plan, and that should be everyone, here is a quick and dirty estimate based on the numbers being thrown around of a 2% GDP increase in year 1 and 1.9 million jobs created or saved... most saved, as in those you can't really quantify. Said otherwise, roughly a $300 billion increase in GDP yields 1.9 million jobs. So far so good. Now since the president is proposing to pay for the program over 10 years, let's assume the $475 billion in direct expenses is financed for 10 years at 2.5% which adds roughly $120 billion to the total cost of the program. In other words, as the calculations detailed and show below elaborate, the overall AJA plan will cost $250,000 per job created (excluding the interest expense) and $312,500 per union job, er job created (including interest). And that's how much it costs for Obama to purchase one vote... created or saved. Keynesian efficiency strikes like a Swiss watch yet again.
As for the just as troubling question of who ends up footing the bill of this "fully paid" for stimulus act, here are the details.
Earlier today, the OMB director Jack Lew gave some so far largely missing information when he laid out how the president plans on paying for the Stimulus Act (http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/WhiteHouseDailyBriefing1719). Specifically, Obama and his advisors believe they are "over achieving" by raising more ($467 bn) over 10yrs to pay for the jobs package now.
So on an annual basis, tax increases will be as follows: (86% limit of itemized deductions, 4% hedge fund managers, 8.6% oil & gas, 0.6% Corp Jets)
Per Year (Beg Jan 2013)
1) Itemized Deductions (ie $250k or higher income $40.0 bn
2) Hedge Fund managers $ 1.8 bn
3) Oil & Gas Industry $ 4.0 bn
4) Corp Jet Depreciation $ 300 mm
The answer: THE JOBS BILL WILL BE PAID FOR EXCLUSIVELY BY TAX INCREASES (NO SPENDING CUTS)
(1) Limit on Itemized Deductions for those making above $200k & Families above $250 k ==> will raise $400 bn over 10yrs ($40 bn/yr) (because you know anyone making over $200k is very wealthy)
(2) Taxing Carried Interest as Ordinary Income ==> will raise $18 bn over 10yrs ($1.8 bn / yr)
(3) Removing Oil & Gas Industry tax breaks ==> $40 bn over 10yrs ($4 bn / yr)
(4) Removing the favorable depreciation for Corp Jets (currently 5 yr depreciation) so it is the same as Commercial Jets (7yr depreciation) ==> $3 bn over 10yrs ($300 mm per yr)
So, Keynesian effiency aside where the IRR on any new job creation is so negative our excel #Refs out, our far more important question is... how does anyone think this proposal has any hope of passage in a Republican controlled House?
Courtesy of John Poehling
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List of Irgun attacks 1937-1948http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
Well gee, I guess if those Irgun guys were still at it, we'd have to shoot them in the face.
What does that have to do with Palestinians shooting at Israeli civilians today?
The Israelis have been killing and stealing from Palestinians for over 60 years. It's one long criminal event.
Begin, Menachem – The Last Commander in Chief (1913–1992); first Likud Prime Minister of Israel.
Many prominent politicians were affiliated with Irgun or members.
What does that have to do with Palestinians shooting at Israeli civilians today?
Irgun was the terrorist organization that brought about the present day Israel. They are now known as Zionists. This violence didn't just start because they don't like Israelis. There are reasons why they don't like Israelis. Its part of history. If you start reading the last chapter its hard to understand the book.
It's been a while since I checked, but the Palestinian "refugee camps" get about $150 billion in funding from the UN. What country provides 80% of the UN budget? That would be the US, of course. That is some great ROI on your tax dollars there, I must say.
Bull shit, bullshit, BULL-SHIT.
Sad but true.
$400.4 million have been appropriated for economic aid to the Palestinians and $100 million for support of PA police training, etc. for FY2010
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html
Took me a whole 5 seconds to find that. Try not to justify pure fucking evil.
I don't want to be taxed for foreign aid. I want to keep more of my money so that I can voluntarily help the Palestinians by buying their products and supporting...
http://freegaza.org
Extremely poor.......... Innocents murdered and you have no sympathy. Ziobrainwashity at it finest.
I just tend to dislike any group of people who shoot up school busses on purpose, or celebrate cutting a baby's throat with a knife. Not exactly collateral damage.
Plus, who the hell is in charge of that mess? The Palestinian Authority, or Hamas?
The even hate each other.
Then why do you love it when the Israelis blow up British hotels and American shipping?
Why would the Israelis blow up the King David hotel?
They did it because they correctly believed that their terrorist acts and massacres of civilians would give them control of Palestine.
Are you now so far gone that you'll deny history? In 2006 Netanyahu gave a speech honoring those who committed the bombing. If he can admit they did it why can't you?
Seems King David hotel in forty six was a military target.
On further reading, Irgun started as a response to arabs killing Jews. Haven't quite gotten far enough to find why they were so pissed at the British, but I'll get there.
Not quite as clear cut terrorist as has been put forth.
I really don't know I'm bothering with you, but I guess even the totally clueless need some help sometimes. First lesson, TURN OFF THE BOOB-TUBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you didn't realize....... Israel pulls this shit on .......hold-it.......hold-it.............Israel..........it's all that holohox sympathy thing again. We were SO mistreated (by our own people) in WWII that we MUST defend ourselves......Shoot a bottle rocket from Palestine into an open field...... kill people. Blow up a bus........kill people, set a restaurant on fire......kill people, rinse-repeat, rinse-repeat. Just who's doing all the killing? ................................Israel.
Everyone has the right to self-defense. Even Israel.
Maybe the Pallies could just stop shooting at Israel for a while, and see what happens.
Palestinians have a right to self defense by your criterion. They didn't start this fight by going after Zionists in Europe. The Zionist came to Palestine with bombs and guns.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
Crockett, there is only one explanation for this "rat". You know it, I know it....I'm done trying.
He's not much fun, is he?
Don't you think we hijacked this tread enough?
Don't say hijack!
The Egytians should have opened the border for their Muslim Brothers long ago. The industrious Palestinians would have guaranteed prosperity for Egypt.
I guess Egypt was happier getting your tax dollars in foreign aid and abiding by US policy.
Much easier to blames Israel for all the evil the Palestinians and their sick islamic society have visited upon themselves.. If Egypt loved Pali's they would never have to trade with the evil joo's at all.. oh thats right all the jobs are in evil joo land.. what else is in evil joo land, Arab legislators, nasty evil joos.. Crock-ett stick with econ your better at it..
Palestinians have property rights just like everyone else. What economic principle can you cite that proves otherwise?
As for sick, how about the Jewish sect that wants to take your liver and give it to a Jew because Jewish life is more precious?
The shit i put up with being a contractor, insurance costs, equipment, douchbag employees, NOT getting paid, subsequent lawyers fees etc.
I'll do my part for team America and SAVE the tax payers 150k by taking just 1/2 of (0)bammas generosity
You will soon learn my friend ! I had a 10+ million per year General Contracting Business and the costs were "out of control" ! When a Union Carpenter was costing over 200K per year with no profit ! I said fuck this, and I sold my business. I love your comment about "douchbag" employees. Remember when you employ someone their problems become yours.
Theta, Three,
Stories like yours (as well as trying twice in business and failing both times) are perfect examples of why I would NEVER start a new business here in the US.
The "third time was the charm", starting our business in PERU with my in-laws.
so wanna start betting against the US now, as in another downgrade coming.
ron paul kickin ass
Yes he is but they already have their staged sound bite for tomorrow's news in the Romney/Perry dust up instigated by the Wolfman.
agreed...perry is trying like hell to steal paul's thunder...also his collar is up around his nose
Which idiots decided to have a debate opposite the Mondy Night Football season opener?
I want names.
What is football?
Heresy!
Your upbringing was sadly lacking.
But it is never too late to change. No one can walk in darkness so long, that they can't find their way back to the light.
How can one make a religion out of what is nothing more than incidental goings on?
Circenses
As if anyone hadn't already noticed, Barry Soetero really has no clue what the hell creates a job. How do we get these asshats into office?
going John Galt very, very soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxogQfcfaA8
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Barack Obama (just like Theodore Roosevelt) was elected in 2008 by an overwhelming majority of Americans. Maybe you should blame these Americans instead of Obama.
Theodore Roosevelt was elected in 2008? Is that you, Walternet?
Hamy, love that you're back ...so let's help you with your technical errors ...
firstly Obumma was elected by a 2% swing vote (a cats whisker) just beating McCain (who shot himself, and his lead, in the foot supporting the bailouts).. so Bumma didn't get into office by "an overwhelming majority of Americans"
secondly nearly half (47%) of eligible Americans did not vote (like most countries)... those are the SANE voters who think voting "doesn't change anything" which as you know is absolutely correct (ie. reality).
So if you take away the insane loons that voted/hoped for GOP and the eligible voters who did not vote because it would not change anything your "overwhelming majority" is boiled down to an (insane) minority of the population (as all 'democratic' Govts represent)
the "overwhelming majority of Americans" of 74% did not vote for Obumma.. he is a minority President, he only has a mandate from a minority 26% of US citizens... Obumma does not represent America, nor does any elected Govt. Fact.
Obummas big promises of 'Change You Can Believe In' has been no change at all, just a tripled Bush deficit with fuk all effect on the economy he was going to revive and stimulate, fuk all effect on unemployment and more fuk all on the War front (which he's increased). So Obumma has proved once again how sane the non-voters are and how insane the voters are
And you've been technically corrected by the facts from your usual delusionary state of mind ...Welcome back ...to reality :)
I love it when the shills get pwned by facts and logic!! :)
Bullshit. He was elected by 53% of the popular vote.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/
+1 for Asshats, damn thats funny!!
Me too vegas. Although with our business in Peru, in that sense I'm already there.
The Cost Of Obama's Stimulus Plan: $312,500 Per Job (Vote) Created Or Saved (And Guess Who Is Paying It)
It's coming from Santa Clause as an early XMas present sprinkled with fairy dust never having to be repaid back ...this is what all Socialists, and closet-Marxists like the current US President, thinks... the money is from LaLa DooLally Land where their heads from
so please don't stop him, the Leftie Loon is on a Trillion Dollar roll... it only hastens the end, when the security guards wheel the moron out of the casino of life and into the pages of histories born losers where all politicians go
Isn't that better than $500,000 as last time?
I wish he could run my company! Oh, maybe he does - that damn pink slip!
In another three hundred years will be down to $20,000.00 a year....Nice move you fucking moron / tool / ceremonial PRES
When we revisit everything that has transpired in the last three years, this is a cluster fuck lower than whale shit..
The American people continuosly vote for people who have absolutely no idea what it's like to run a business. Then we all stare in wonder when endless amounts of nonsense streams out of the government.
If you want policies that encourage job creation, vote for a small business owner.
"If you want policies that encourage job creation, vote for a small business owner."
Those still exist?
Seems the Tea Party did just that.
Perhaps a successful OB/GYN?
The American people vote for who ever is on offer. Look at the candidates from the past 40 years. See any similarities?
They should just hand over 2500 Benjamins to each of two million unemployed people. All the drunken spending that would result should definitely perk up the economy.
Cue the unicorn.
All of this is foreplay and looting.
The only way to fix this is a complete uprooting of the social construct and ripping out the corruption; until people realize that the social construct is not some great objectivity, but rather some subjective system human beings pretend-play to, we will repeat this ad nauseum.
The delusional people at the middle and bottom prostrate themselves before objectivities: gods of the social order.
The people at the top know it's theirs to shape as they will. Shift that perspective to the middle and lower part of the strata, and we've a much better society--but people just need to let the fuck go and realize that their feeble little constructs of identity and the world are only their own coping mechanisms. Social systems need not be "objective" for the sake of the system: it is worshiped as an absolute because the people need it to be.
Ah, silly people. Society--the great tragedy.
"not quite"
Owebama thinks he knows how to spend our money better than we do. Hey O. if you're determined to waste money just send me a check bitchez.
Green!
Send me my check, bitchez.
Why don't we just take half a job away from those greedy fuckers that have jobs and give it to someone else? This would create 100% more jobs.
every public employee
takes an apprentice ...
pays that person
one third their salery and pension ...
unemployment problem solved ..
need apprentice editor...
double post..
my bad
Wait...we'll still be paying for this piece of shit program in 10 years? Ugh.
Actually no, if they pass it and institute the tax increases to pay for it, we will be paying for it the rest of our lives, and our childrens lives, and their childrens lives, and their childrens childrens lives........etc.....
Sounds like a plan to me. If small business won't start hiring until demand increases the government needs to step in and create demand in the short term to jump start the economy. At the end of the day we are going to fix our nation's infrastructure which needs to be done anyway. Why not do it at a time of need for job creation? In the long run government jobs are not sustainable, but I believe it is a necessary evil during a depression.
oh god please let ron respond to the end the fed question
what a complete obamination!!!!!
No surprise here, at all! For some it will be when it won't pass :)))! Ah all that bickering and show off 3 times a day speeches etc all the while the markets take another round of shellacking heheheeeee I can't breathe shit have to stop here Jesus hehehe eh ehh....
"who's going to run the currency?" ARE YOU SHITTING ME?!
I was wondering where those 30,000 BAC layoffs were going to work for next. Thanks
Fantastic!
Pass now, spend now, jobs now...
Taxes don't kick in till 2013 and none of this is political pandering.
Middle Class is doomed.
I'm sure that if we put all the deck chairs on the aft of the ship it will right itself promptly.
Why are those people crying?
What a lovely tune the band is playing!
anybody want to take a crack at whats flawed in this lovely propaganda piece?
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/who-owns-america-hint-its-not-china/
"America owes America $9.8 Trillion".
Well, they don't really owe it to us; it's just a promise.
They'll pay the Chinese and the banks and put us in FEMA trailers.
Just a couple more flip-flops of Dem to Repub with both sides and the courts and the banks screwing over the individual and the household and we'll be back to indentured servitude and service to the Royalty in a different name all over again.
i didnt see the fed in there, did you? arent they the ones that hold 1.6 trillion?it states the treasury holds that. unless im missing something here.....
fuck you perry you fuck
Perry is losing this debate spectacularly.
BOOM BACHMAN!!!
Is anybody watching this debate? I have not laughed this much in a long time. Bachman insinuates that Perry passed his vaccine because of political donations. Perry responds that he has received $30 million in total donations and that Merk only gave him $5,000. Followed by "If you think I can be bought for $5,000... awkward sileince ... then I'm offended." haha he's not offended that you think he can be bought. He's offended because you think he can be bought for that little. WTF?
Yeah, we got the game on.
I caught that too, it was the amount of the bribe that offended Slick Perry, not the idea of the bribe itself.
That's the first time I recall Ron being asked a health question. He hit it out of the park.
"Let'm die in the street." Ron Paul
Actually he said that before Medicare no one was turned away from the charitable hospital in which he worked. How did you manage to misunderstand that so badly?
Nice try...he did not say that. Rather he dared to suggest that Americans should take responsibility for their actions...in this case, a 30 something not buying health insurance and then needing free health care. The audience supported his assertion. So do I.
Way to go...putz. You just outed yourself as a Huffpo agent.
Twat.
That you, Grayson? How's retirement in Bumfuck, FL?
Bachman and Paul are cleaning up here. Gingrich must have taken his invisibility pills again.
CNN.com breaking news banner:
'Yes!' shouted from audience when Blitzer asks Ron Paul if coma patient without insurance should be allowed to die
Does Obama think this is Brewster's Millions? He throws this money around like its nothing.....If I see he bought an iceberg the jig is up....
I wish Bob Ross had been president. A candle in the wind...
Was at an art gallery with my family and my 9 yr old asked the sales guy where the Bob Ross section was....hilarious....
That gave me a good chuckle. Imagine Bob Ross going to China... guaranteed they would be buying treasuries and forgetting about Dim Sum bonds.
Ladies and Gentlemen of the world. Allow me to introduce you to one of the greatest the United States ever nurtured:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raXanYjTF18
As others have mentioned, they did not let Dr. Paul talk about the fed but all the other candidates other than gingrich used the term "sound money" or "single charter"
As these terms, along with "tax code", start working thier way into the common vernacular it might open real paths to recovery for the USA.
The other candidates are the same folks that bomb foreigners to give them "freedom." Let's hope they don't want to much "freedom" here at home.
Good points. but they did let Ron Paul give that message, and you are right he will be the only one. the "national security" segment of the debate is comming up.....
Ron stood up to Rick the Dick but he might have used his rebuttal to say: the troops agree with me and donate more money to my campaign than to all the rest of you combined. Why don't you support the troops, Mr. Santorum?
Right. When it comes to domestic spending Rick Santorum says para "if we don't have ethics and morality in our culture, we need government programs to compensate for that and it is a downward spiral"
Would that not also apply to american exceptionalism? (aka Military spending/Foriegn nation building)
Gotta give huntsman props though. When the Afgani immigrant asked "what will you do as the president of the united states to protect Afgani women?" he basically said we've been there ten years militarily. we've done all we can do. American families have made the ultimate sacrifice. Its time for NGOs and bring our boys home.
Again, huntsman was more diplomatic, cause the MSM acknowledges him. Ron paul has to be forceful because he is generally ignored.
Perry looks done after this debate
After blowing the Texas healthcare "issue"...which I knew nothing about [ghast]...he drops the ball on the illegal immigrant issue.
Brilliant. This guy is, as I was warned, a moron. But I presume at CNN and Fox News...coverage will indicate that he and Romney "did what they needed to do."
I think not.
So, that’s it then, some guy works out a back of the envelope calculation about how much it will bluntly cost for 1 job, ignores multiplier effects(yeah, hard to calculate, but more importantly, not conducive with political point scoring) or discussions of how the money will benefit schools and the education standards that everyone complains have went to the dogs, and creaking infrastructure - no that would be too hard. These posts are up there with showing everyone a historical chart of a falling dollar, saying its lost 98% of its value - by de facto implying you all should be all 50 times richer. (yeah pay that guy $1750000 for emptying garbage bins. What? He can only afford one car? Give the motherfucker 50 you greedy central bankers!)
Don’t blame Keynes for public works either, quote;
“Organised public works, at home and abroad, may be the right cure for a chronic tendency to a deficiency of effective demand. But they are not capable of sufficiently rapid organization (and above all cannot be reversed or undone at a later date), to be the most serviceable instrument for the prevention of the trade cycle.”
See how he mentions “not capable of sufficiently rapid organization”,…but how long have you lot got? How long are you expecting to spend in “depression”? I would say its worth a try, this is not a normal cycle, these are not ordinary times, it looks as if they are indeed “chronic“. Also, what’s the point in complaining about your children being taxed if they are going to be living in a depression ravaged county anyway? Who thinks that doing nothing is an option? FAIL!
It's called freedom, you fuck. The concept evades you, I suspect, due to your geographic location.
As for the rest of your post...it is incomprehensible. I'd suggest putting one foot in front of the other next time...and just try to walk the short, straight line.
Doing nothing is the ONLY option. DC and Wall Street have been engineering a false economy in the US for a good 30 years. We have arrived here now as the butcher's bill is coming due. And you do not go forward with more of the same...it's common sense.
Report to the Huffington Post where your ideas will be lauded and cheered.
As for how long we "lot got"...your guess is as good as mine.
Lets all do nothing and stand real still, the golden freedom unicorns will be around any second now to fix it all, yak yak yak.
What is this supposed to mean? I presume that "do nothing" in this case is NOT printing money and NOT spending more future tax payer's contributions and NOT eroding more freedoms and NOT starting new wars.
So in this case, NOT DO SOMETHING is actually doing quite a lot.
As for the economic pain that is coming to average Joe, there is no avoiding it anymore. As such, the ecnomic pain needs to be embraced, and suffering it eased by rediscovering things like liberty, family, neighbors, etc, etc.
But hey...don't think too far outside of the stupid sound bite you are trying to plant. Again, report to the Huffpo where you will be celebrated like heroes for your complete lack of intellectual curiosity. Hell, you didn't even get the unicorn thing right.
Brilliant!
I think his point, not to put words on his mouth, is that we should reflect on how bad things could get if you just stand back and watch a cascade of defaults first wipe out insolvent businesses (OK), then spread to wipe out businesses made illiquid as a result oft he first wave, then businesses are wiped out because their customers are all out of jobs and wandering the street with no homes or hope for the future.
Greece is an example of this. The EU had a chance about a year ago to get their ducks in a row. Now it's too late and everyone loses. Stupid unicorns of freedom.
It's not about compassion necessarily, which is strangely incomprehensible to most people in this cold age. It is about stopping the dominoes from falling before they knock you and your kids over... hence it requires a larger perspective than the typical purveyors of unicorn crap in the republican and democratic parties.
You still don't have the unicorn thing right. What the hell is wrong with you guys? Don't you know that unicorns are mythical? You know, like the ES bid?
I know this is hard to believe, but allowing illusions to shatter IS VERY COMPASSIONATE. Considering the damage done to this nation with mindless corporate materialism, and the strain on the family with the Two Income delusion required to support the Mindless Materialism, it is well beyond the time for this shit to end.
How many iPhones can you use at once? If an iPhone is outdated after six months, isn't it a highly wasteful endeavor to buy one? How many iPhones are worth perpetual ear infections in your children?
Why would anyone lease a car? Are they dissolving stupid pills in the coffee at GM showroom floors? Why would anyone buy a new car every other year?
How many Americans are spiritually bankrupt...in part because they are too busy gearing up for the next contest at the Colosseum...aka gearing up to cheer on some jersey in some distant city? What is the NFL broadcast segment up to now...30 hours per week...more during the playoff season?
These are just a few examples of the false economy Americans have been living in for the last 30 years. I could go on.
As for businesses dissolving...that is called THE FREE MARKET, buddy. If it is time to dissolve them, it is time to dissolve them. What good are these big corporations anyway? They employ the rest of the world...not Americans.
Wake up. And at least, finally, get the unicorn thing right. It is not complex.
Oh, let's just leave compassion out of this. Frankly, I don't care much about you or anybody else unconnected to me. That I even brought up compassion was kind of silly, just an observation that everyone is pretty much out for themselves in this miserable jungle and it is dishonesty to think otherwise.
My point is that people need to be more pragmatic about this awful situation, and how it can end up biting you and I in the backside. Just like Greece. There are a few moments when there is real room for movement, decisiveness, and action. They could have let Greece default and then stepped into halt the landslide before it wiped out viable businesses that were simply caught in a liquidity crunch. They could have created a federal structure, where credit risk is pooled among richer and poorer countries. Instead they were ineffectual and undid with one hand as they did with the other, leading to the disaster we have now. Worse, they could have done nothing and let Greece, Ireland, Portugal, AIB, Barcap, SocGen, DB, ... all go under. No one would remain standing in this last case. Can you see how disastrous this would be for everyone?
As for the goods you disparage so much: it is for the market to decide what is worht making, buying, and selling. You sound strangely totalitarian in your anti-materialistic rant. Corporations provide jobs, and who cares if you or I don't like those jobs? Small businesses typically retail the goods you disparage so much, so hell with them too, I guess.
I can't see how your vision of how things ought to be is anything but a Dickensian misery.
LOL! They built a continental structure there, Einstein. And still it fails. And now they need a global structure, via China [the worst capital allocators in the world, bar none] just to keep a few failed Eurozone countries alive...and it will also fail.
And if you don't much care about anything "unconnected" to you, why would you endorse other nations, other continents...and soon other planetary systems stepping up and bailing out such other "unconnected" people?
And I hate to break it to you with the cherry on top and all...but the problem...it ain't liquidity.
When the defaults start, many viable companies and other entities viable in terms of cashflow will go out of business because of these defaults if everyone stands by and does nothing. It will become a self-feeding cycle. There is a difference between letting the insolvent default and letting the illiquid default.
I don't know what you mean by "continental structure". What I am referring to is centralized fiscal policy (risk pooling) to go with the centralized monetary policy that is destroying the periphery. they failed to do this and now it is probably too late.
I care because it is in my own interest, and it is in your interest too. It is in everyone's interest but most are just too stupid or stubborn to see that letting it all go is a disaster for everyone.
What it means is that you have the rose tinted glasses squarely glued to your nose, you are sucking up a simplistic ideology through your nostrils like it was going out of fashion (“don’t start more wars”? don’t fly fucking planes into skyscrapers is more to the point. Stop slaughtering thousands of your own people and expect the world to sit and watch is also more to the point) You think that embracing expressions of misty-eyed freedom, moralising about family values, back to basics and volunteering, getting together with neighbours to sell them home made jam (im meant to embrace my neighbours? I cant fucking stand them or their children) will be the only way for individuals to find salvation, Waltons style. I hope your wrong on so many levels. The difference between us is that you think that a period of deleveraging will put us back in the stone age, mix that together with your conservative hard-on and its clear we could go round all night. For that matter, you go your way and I’ll go mine.
Indeed...and I am doing just that. And when your iPhone suddenly loses signal forever, and your pink slip comes, and your delusions commence their collapse phase, and your whole notion of the world is suddenly revealed to you as false [or in your case, you lose your job in the assembly line reverse engineering American products and feeling thankful for your sticky rice ball break], I'll be fine.
I'll be fine because I never expected an iPhone, nor do I believe it adds value to my life. I never expected that the Federal Government would be anything but tyrannical. And I never expected that watching the Waltons would deliver me to salvation, nor did I ever expect that canning food would do much more than barely sustain me.
And when all is said and done, and I am thankful for what I have, you will be an angry shrew now, won't you...wishing to have the false economy back, your fix, your mirage.
Good luck with that because no matter what you or I say just now...the butcher's bill has come due...and an extra half trillion in stimulus will not do what $5 trillion has already failed to do. So you might want to consider getting long a few Mason jars there, scratch.
Man, how on earth is it all false? That’s madness. Yes, you never expected an iphone(me neither, I don’t own one, my phone is over 3 years old), but yet here you are communicating on a more sophisticated device, over even more sophisticated networks? Is this adding value to your life? It sure adds value to mine, I love it and all my other mod cons and luxuries, im having a fucking ball. If the kids want iphones then give them iphones, they used to want hula-hoop’s and action men, the market supplied them too, just like it supplied housewives with hoovers when brushes did the job just as good. If the people are enjoying them, and the economy is getting a jolt from them, then why not? Because they give kids the odd ear infection? They dumb people down? (Devices for sharing unlimited information and communicating, dumb people down? and don’t add value to “life“? err, like the hula-hoop and comic book did?) Ok, you introduce your kids to the hoop and paperback and watch them beat you round the fucking head with them. There is nothing false about consumer demand. You’re confused.
Listen Buckwheat,
By false...I mean unsustainable. All of it has been built on a mountain of debt, credit card debt and cashed in home equity...equity that is now doing its best impersonation of a fucking meteor. Unfortunately for those who have been sustaining themselves on this pulled forward consumerism built on debt, the bubble is popping. That is why no amount of bailing out will restore the underlying economy. And all the while, America has become less and less and less productive. You don't know much about economics, do you?
But on the Internet...on this point we can agree that it has improved our lives. Spot on. But as for smart phones, assless jeans, $50 bottles of wine, dinners out, pay for this services and pay for that, new cars, leased cars, McMansions...it's gone, buddy. Because you don't live in this country, you have not got the memo from the MSM...because there is no memo about the recovering economy. This is my central point to you. This is the falsehood of which I speak.
But good luck bailing out Greece and Italy and Portugal and Ireland and Spain...trying to rebuild economies from the supply side. It won't work. It isn't working.
"By false...I mean unsustainable." and by unsustainable you mean, unsustainable at its current rate. Yes, that’s true. It doesn’t mean however, that everything reverses, disappears, and we all have to grow our own food, read bibles by candlelight, "unplug from networks", and get to know our lovely neighbours etc, thats just doomer hype, and there are people from the 70‘s still waiting on it happening. The average consumer debt is only ~$8,000, while the average wage is $33,000, err 24%, I don’t see how you can say the whole economy is built on consumer debt on those numbers(German consumer debt reached 115%! per head in 2003). So a period of gradual but austere deleveraging is on the cards at worst, maybe culling the $50 wines and assless jeans, eating out less for those who cant afford to do so and paying down some debt... but it doesn’t mean the end of consumerism, the economy, civilisations or sub-cultures, or even iphone sales - infact you should probably go out and buy one with hard cash and do your bit. If you want to waste it on another goat and chicken, thats up to you.
Indeed, it is a matter of what level. And the level is....a lot lower than where we are now. This time, when the S&P goes mid triple digit, it is my belief that it will stay there for a long time.
But we don't need to continue this argument. We can leave it at...we shall see.
Taking pride in and responsibly for your own life has nothing to do with unicorns. Unicorns are employed by those who want you to believe that if you give away your money to someone else they will spend it "better" than you can.
Ron Paul uh oh
Just when Santorum managed to sound relatively sane for the better part of 2 hours, he then had to trot out the old "they hate us for our freedoms" bullshit.
Lucky for him there were no questions about gay rights.
Unfortunately a lot of people in the audience seemed to like the "let's kick the hornets nest because hornets hate us whether we kick them or not and if your kid dies from a hornet sting after being ordered to kick the hornet nest for freedom then you'll get your own souvenir flag" policy.
I take credit for having foreseen this stimulus package over a month ago and posted about it. Nailed the dollar amount too. GOP will pretend to be against it before they turn for it (and believe me, they're for it, even behind it).
Next up: mortgage refi.
And no QE3 (LSAP) this year. Maybe next. But remember, mortgage refi gives the Fed a chance to re-shuffle MBS and that leaves good money on the table for the banks to pick up. They also still have QE light going and they may lower rates and do the twist with that.
...well they better be certain to have the same refi qualification requirements Country Wide did in 2006...otherwise nobody will be able to benefit from the program...
If you increase a tax, people will tend to stop doing the things that are being taxed. A tax on people making more than 200K would probably mostly hit baby boomers in their peak earning years nearing retirement. So some of these people might very well decide to retire or semi-retire early and so the tax increase will end up raising less than expected. It might even result in a reduction of tax revenues. For example, if you raise the tax rate to 100%, everyone affected would just stop working and your tax revenues would completely vanish.
Also, the rich spend money on all sorts of goods and services and if you tax them, they will not have that money to spend and the people who provide those goods and services will lose their jobs. For example, rich executives might be forced to cut down on their purchases of booze and hookers and so some bartenders and hookers might lose their jobs. So the bill really just transfers jobs from one part of the economy to another. When that is taken into account, it may not actually create any net jobs after all.
Obama's problem is that he never worked in any wealth-generating industry and he doesn't understand how wealth creation works. He views the wealthy as parasites rather than partners and creates a toxic climate where success is punished. Instead of starting new productive businesses in the US, the wealthy will spend their time looking for tax loopholes and trying to find good investments overseas.
Yes: bartenders and hookers will feel it if the rich are taxed. But then they'll make it up on volume from people who are not taxed and feeling depressed by going a bit downscale. Water seeks a level.
All the tax cuts for upper income over the last 35 years have really not made the government any more solvent. And it hasn't saved any AMerican jobs and industries from going overseas. And it hasn't stopped the money from going into overseas accounts, and buying land, boats, cars and luxury items overseas. Rich people don't "put the money to work in the economy". They buy things that will make them richer or give them more status the easiest and safest way possible. You take chances with investing when you DON"t have money. Once you do, you go the other way into safe returns and hoarding to preserve your capital. Risk taking is over.
I can tell that you have never run a small business. Let me tell you, it involves a heck of a lot of hard work and stress. I have ideas for expanding it, but they involve lots of risk and even more work. Every time Obama makes a speech, it makes me ask myself why I even bother. I could shut the business down tomorrow and live comfortably overseas for the rest of my life. In fact, I think I will! Congratulations. You and Obama have just cost five people their jobs.
I started two businesses (over time, and a long time ago), both failed. Despite me busting my ass and losing money... At least I did not stiff any creditors.
We now have a business in Peru (with my in-laws). Peru! Safer to have a small business there than here. Sorry Barack.
Don't mistake what I'm saying as an endorsement for Obama. I was talking about tax cuts to upper incomes over time. Net result, as you say yourself, has not been brilliant to say the least. I have run a small business. It's profitable, no thanks to political BS. The last time anyone in DC really had our backs was in another generation before our time
Hooker Hoarding 101
Good don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out! If your total sum argument involves booze and hookers as a loss to the service class you are not breaking anyones heart. What the yacht industry will crumble? Professional sports stadiums will not get funded? Can't buy an inbred race horse? The new 2012 Beamer out of reach? Your 10th dream McMansion to expensive?
If the industry you favor to raise us out of of our current economic debasement is the conspicuous consumption industry, you are a loon.
Now if you would have said something to the effect of bringing manufacturing back to America by reducing the insurmountable bureaucracy the government has heaped upon small business then I would feel for your argument. Bringing educational standards back up so we can compete with foreign nations by having a workforce with the knowledge and skill set capable of working on tomorrows technological advances. Creating an industry of sustainable energy principles instead of the throw away economy we have bred!
Rich people are assholes if they believe bread crumbs to the service class will fix an ailing economy.
After reading your brain dead argument. Shame on you for making me agree with Obama!
Hara-kiri Perry....
AUSTRIAN ECONOMICS BITCHEZ
A cheer for Austrian economics!
Obama looking more every day like the huge douche-bag that he is. Herman Cain says Obooba is a bit uptight.
Schnitzelnomics, bitchez.
...uh, who does Hussein think he is? http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/40253
$312,500 per Molochian, lol. At Chairsatan's Zero Interest Bank Rate of Deceit & Denile, with help from the kick the can down the Yellow BRIC's Road ...of the Black and Broke Condom Caucus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sKpzmojjfU and their new world order NAFTA friends like the ''Union of the Snake's House of Political GATT Whore's'', that will get you a 700 sqft one bedroom near the metro on the ''not a Virginian anymore'' side of the ''ain't Poortomac '' ...Bitchez. lol. This mad monkey, zero hero, Nimrod of Babylon, has a huge corrupt case of the prophetic strong delusion. How's about you close the Washinton MonuMental Slush Tour De Phalic, now that the penis is cracked, and get rid of the Department of Education etc..., pull out of the Afghan gaff and stand down the members of the military invasions screwing up your Muslim Brotherhood Mr. Hussein? http://en.rian.ru/world/20110912/166765230.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfocxEACXAg
Let's just NOT have a POTUS this time around. Give it a 4 year rest and see how it goes. Let the children play
This is the best Washington can do?? We in heap big trouble.
smoke em
peace pipe
paleface
{ bytches }
The constitution does not say that there has to be a POTUS. Just that we need to have elections. If the majority vote for a blank, then blank wins and "No Prez" is elected constitutionally.
Reference to Mike Judges film "Idiocracy"? where the smartest man alive becomes president and his name is "Not Sure"
I think when krugman's aliens show up they are look back at that movie as the composite presidential/cabinet biography going back atleast 40 years. except for not sure.
Disc: Long Brawndo
It's got electrolytes.
Gotta pay for them Union and NEA votes somehow other than the 1 billion in under $50 (unreportable) donations from the Chinese....
"how does anyone think this proposal has any hope of passage in a Republican controlled House?"
Simple. The uninformed masses only hear the word "jobs" and threaten to riot when the (relatively) sensible Republicorp want to block.
If there is something that should be done RIGHT NOW
It would be the delivery from VP Biden of a report on how the funds were used for the First batch of pissed away money.
Joe was announced as the watch dog and chief enforcer of complete openness and guaranteed that there would be no waste under his bloodshot eye.
Tell us where it all went Joe. RIGHT NOW.
"Openness."
"Transparency."
BWHAHAHA! Welcome to the U.S.S.A.!
change wez can beleeve in!
IMF Survey: F&D Spotlights Widening Gap Between Rich and Poor The disparity between the haves and the have nots is increasing, according to Finance & Development magazine. Some say that inequality doesn’t matter as long as markets work and economies grow so that everyone gets more. But research finds advantages to reducing inequality.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2011/new091211a.htm
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2011/09/pdf/milanovi.pdf
More or Less
Finance & Development, September 2011, Vol. 48, No. 3
Branko Milanovic
PDF version
Income inequality has risen over the past quarter-century instead of falling as expected
INEQUALITY is growing. Disparities are increasing—between the rich and poor in individual countries, and until recently, between countries. The global financial crisis is keeping real incomes stagnant in advanced economies but it probably narrowed global inequality between citizens of the world, because most developing countries continued with strong growth. Some say that inequality doesn’t matter as long as markets are working efficiently, or if everyone is getting more. Others argue that inequality hampers growth, or that only so much disparity is ethically acceptable.
INCOME INEQUALITY
F&D Spotlights Widening Gap Between Rich and PoorBy Marina Primorac
Managing Editor, Finance & Development
September 12, 2011
The disparity between the haves and the have nots is increasing, according to an article in Finance & Development (F&D) magazine by inequality expert Branko Milanovic.