Cost Of Second Greek Bailout Raised To €145 Billion
When the first revision of the second Greek bailout to the tidy round number of €130 billion was announced, we scoffed, mockingly. Because a country which then had a 7% budget deficit, and now has a deficit that will be well in the double digits, and not to mention a banking system that is now hollow following tens of billions in deposit withdrawals as month after month the Greek bank run gets worse, would obviously need much more liquidity (but banish the thought that it is a solvency crisis...) Sure enough, earlier today Der Spiegel broke the news that the second bailout, which has yet to be re-ratified, and absent Greece meeting demands to cede fiscal sovereignty, is likely a non-starter, would be increased to €145 billion "citing an unidentified
official from the so-called troika." So whether or not this is true is irrelevant: what matters is that Spiegel released the article in the same series of posts in which it explained just why Germany has full right to demand (via European enforcement mechanisms or however) virtually anything in exchange for the ongoing endless bailout (such as: Merkel macht Wahlkampf für Sarkozy and Griechenland sträubt sich gegen EU-Aufpasser). Which means one thing only: the great propaganda spin machine is now on, and its only purpose is to provide Germany a buffer of "having done everything in its power" to prevent the now inevitable Greek default. Which, incidentally, means that a Greek default is inevitable. Because at this point once the default floodgates open, the question will be not where the bonds will trade, but just how big the impairment on the European DIP (aka Troika bailout package) will be.
More from Spiegel:
The situation in Athens is more dramatic: the EU wants to take control of Greece's budget, the rescue package for the ailing state amounts to SPIEGEL information on 145 instead of 130 billion euros. In Berlin, formed a broad resistance to further aid.
It's like a bottomless pit: the planned emergency measures for Greece are not enough to lead the country out of crisis. According to the troika of the EU Commission, European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, the country still needs one additional 15 billion euros. Instead of 130 billion euros, as yet decided in late October last year, would be about 145 billion euros due, according to SPIEGEL information in the Troika, which started recently, her work in Athens again.
Reason for the gap is worsening the economic situation in Greece. "We do not believe that you can collect the missing money solely with the private creditors," it says in the Troika.
In the Berlin coalition is forming, however, resistance to further Griechlandhilfen , as it has brought, among other things, the EU Commission comes into play. "At our attitude has not changed," said CSU leader Horst Seehofer in Der Spiegel. "For reform standstill, there is no money." The CSU reject new aid for Greece over the programs adopted out, Seehofer said. "If the Greeks do not implement the reform programs, it can give no further assistance."
Also FDP parliamentary leader Rainer Bruederle calls for a relentless attitude towards Athens. "Solidarity is a two way street, so far as the European Community must stand firm and demand the necessary structural reforms," ??he says. "Only when the Greeks also provide evidence that they are serious, we can and must help the European Community."
German political support for a Greek bailout is next to zero:
The first coalition MPs have already announced that they plan to vote against a new Greece package. The Bavarian FDP members Erwin Lotter, who has previously approved all the euro rescue package would not do the same in the case of Greece. "I thought, the Greeks took their time," he says. "Now I am assuming that there is a bankruptcy, the problems can not be solved with more money."
The CDU -female politician Wolfgang Bosbach, announced that he will not vote for new tools Greece. "The Greeks do not lack the political will, but the economic strength to get back on its feet." Even in the European wing of the party is spreading now from discomfort. "It has become a big annoyance made ??broad," says the chairman of the EU Affairs Committee Gunther Krichbaum.
"All Greek parties must finally show the absolute will to change anything fundamentally." The deputy chairman of FDP Toncar Florian said, Greece is by far the most difficult decision for his party.
Last, and certainly least according to the Germans, is the Greek government, which until the news broke late last night, had no advance warning of German intentions:
The government in Athens according to the information officially know nothing of the plan.
At least Hank Paulson was kind enough to let congress and the population know when he came up with his three-page blank check term sheet to bailout his former employer. In Europe, Greece apparently was not even worthy the cost of a fax with the German one-pager before it was leaked to the press.
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Meanwhile, Obama gets ready to open peace talks (surrender talks) with the Taliban...
Good, why are we there? Bin Laden is dead.
Growin' poppies mayne!
I wonder when China will demand Obama to hand his budget over to Beijing.
The Greek Drachma vs the Euro. It'll be like a battle between two comatose inbreds.
Dear ZH readers,
(Off topic)Who gives a fuck anymore? I've been reading this site for well over a two years now (active member for one year) and I have to say I honestly don't give two shits. I've seen every arguement possible whether it be for anarchy, gold standards, more government control, this candidate and that candidate. I've obessesed over all of it and I've come to the conclusion that I don't give a shit. Please provide one good arguement on why I should give a shit about any of this anymore. Honestly, hit me hard with the fight club shit. Yes, I know most of what ZH has predicted has come true and will soon come true, but what has it changed? I really want to know. Maybe I'm just an ass, I don't know. Of course, I'm also looking for answers from a fuckin blog so maybe I'm the douche. JD has that affect.
Good luck in all that you do,
KennyG09
Well, if you have a family you should give a sh!t. If you want to protect your assets you should give a sh!t. If you want to maintain some sort of income you should give a sh!t.
You will fall behind if you don't understand the new world order: http://seekingalpha.com/article/319405-debt-chaos-financial-repression-a...
It's true that the shit seems to keep getting worse, worser, worsest, worsester,,,, but it still keeps going.
Well, when anyone is thusly inclined and has an hour to spare, check out a genuine alternative to OUR COLLECTIVE BETTERMENT... below.
Scoffers, at your own peril. ;-)
My Jolt for the Volt can triple it's miles....just like that. As one pertinent example.
ori
/watershed-day-may-this-pour-through-a-million-pairs-of-eyes/
@kenny09
"may be I am an ass, I dont know" ....
I think you do - you hit it on the head - you are correct on what you are ... but, frankly none gives a damn of what you are or what you think you are ... get over it!
Number of bailouts required = infinity.
Total cost = infinity.
Just give us the damn checkbook....and go away allready.
Here is a blog I just did with current jobs numbers and some austrian economics mixed in.
http://usa-wethepeople.com/2012/01/obama-campaign-ad-claims-job-growth/
KG, just like a car wreck or an IRS audit, it's happening whether you give a shit or not. It is not like any of our opinions of the facts will affect the outcome. You seem to be confusing the articles with the comments. The articles simply mark the occurrence of events (and in many instances, the only source to mark the occurrence of those events). The comments are where we express opinions of these events, theorize, speculate, and grouse.
‡ The pursuit of blog commentary carries inherent risk due to unreasonable demands, unrealized expectations, and unstable commenter relations. Participants should understand these and additional risks before proceeding to the comments section.
Trust me I've been saving most of my earnings in gold/land, despite the many "weird" looks I get for turning down the 401k. Thank you for some perspective.
Double
Ruh-Roh! Meltdown!
speaking of meltdown....are we still on track for iran to cut the eu off of their oil today at 6 pm???
It also seems the US is moving 100,000 troops onto 2 islands off coast of the horn of Africa and Oman.
http://goldandsilverlinings.com/?p=1863
Purim: March 8
I call the color of the new army fatiges Iran blue. Much better than Iraq beige. I hear Iran Blue will be all the rage in spring.
Still holding out for the blue USD notes. 100 to 1 green to blue? I can then trade for the "new" (still Lincoln?) $5.
Did you actually understand this article? This cannot go on much longer.
I've spent close to 2000 hours (no kidding) on the subject the past 3 years. I'm fed up too that it takes so long, but I refuse to give up now the endgame has really started.
Hang in there.
Way too late to, "give a shit". Now I just wait for the revolution. Bullets and beans boys and girls, bullets and beans.
I like reading ZH just to watch people with money not sleep at night knowing it's all an illusion. I can't wait for the Palm Beach/Boca suicide rate jump.
Citizens of Beijing City bought 1.5 metric ton of gold in 7 days for holiday gift and so on http://www.chinanews.com/fortune/2012/01-29/3627570.shtml
Giving a sh%t, whether you care to or not, is essential to health. You are taking and making sh%t , so it's important to be able to give it or lack luster from constipation. Give it up like your curly-haired brother from another mother, Kenny G with the sax.
Or maybe pop a zit or two here at ZH, but don't forget to use neosporin! We like you to come clean.
(Off topic)Who gives a fuck anymore? I've been reading this site for well over a two years now (active member for one year) and I have to say I honestly don't give two shits. I've seen every arguement possible whether it be for anarchy, gold standards, more government control, this candidate and that candidate. I've obessesed over all of it and I've come to the conclusion that I don't give a shit. Please provide one good arguement on why I should give a shit about any of this anymore. Honestly, hit me hard with the fight club shit. Yes, I know most of what ZH has predicted has come true and will soon come true, but what has it changed? I really want to know. Maybe I'm just an ass, I don't know. Of course, I'm also looking for answers from a fuckin blog so maybe I'm the douche. JD has that affect.Good luck in all that you do, KennyG09
Much depends on what you do with all that shitty information that you find here and elsewhere...
How much do you subject yourself to the OPINIONated guess of others is the question at hand. ZH does not get it right all the time, as a matter of fact I rely much on exclusive thinking and other places (my hairdresser for starters *lol*) - but at places like ZH one might find the occasional extra info that could be quite a gem (seldomly a 'nugget').
Usually I make money, if I do the exact opposite of what other people suggest...
Make up your mind and get ready to think for yourself... Good luck to you 2 !!
I wonder when China will demand Obama to hand his budget over to Beijing
What budget?
Touche!
If you would sell everything in America, you'd get about 16 trillion for it. A good salesman could even get 17 trillion for it.
So that won't cover it anymore.
BUT!!!!
HUMAN CAPITAL!!! And by Human capital I mean the amount of money one makes in their entire lifetime is estimated to be 260 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!
So if he sells Americans to China, for about 750.000 per person (kids bring in more), he would only have to sell 2.7 million slaves to China to downpay the debt with china!
and about 15 million Americans to the banks!
Yes.... once you start hearing "Human Capital" in the press, you'll know what he's talking about....
Foxconn pays about .70 per hour. I think we are worth more than 750.00 over our "useful" life. Do the math.
I don't want you on the negotiation team, that's for sure.
I think he means $750,000
That hOpium isnt going to grow itself now...
I found out that bin Laden was dead when I played The White Album backwards.
Al Quaeda is everywhere. Did you know that al Quaeda shot the Kennedys? They used box cutters to get a man on the moon. They used metal knives and forks in the Chili's restaurant in your local airport to take down the western world. They are everywhere and you might be one of them, so we have to double the national budget every 5 years to ensure the massive state apparatus is up to the task of protecting you ... from yourselves.
It was lately proven that it was not Berlusconi's predessesors or the Israelites that crucified Christ. It had to be Al Quaeda or the Taliban. Yes! they are everywhere.
Al Qaeda causes morning constipation too. They slip in during the night and hard little buggers to shit out. But if you let them hang around too long next thing you know you are on the list to visit Gitmo for some non-torture torture to cleanse your Colin Powell of Yellow Cake.
Really, who in ther right minds believes in these made up bogeyman?
The more time that passes and the more desperate TPTB act the more unreal they seem.
Who knows...maybe some dirty rag-heads in a filthy cave somewhere did want us all dead because of envy. That certainly legitimizes the abbrogation of all our liberties and treasure in the name of being able to have an uneventul bowel movement as our government takes one large dump all over ther world.
/SARCASM OFF
If by Al Qaeda you mean the CIA, then yes, you are very close to the truth sir.
Which MP3 player supports reverse playback?
3pm
Tactical presence in the region. (read: The middle ages crusades)
You sure? For me all those muslims look the same.... and it's not like we got to see his corpse....
Maybe I should buy some more tuna cans and look if I find a "trace" of him in there....
Especially the extra tall dead (Muslim) ones, look alike that is.
We have always been at war with ourselves.
i.e., negotiations to pay them not to fight.
Paying them off is much cheaper.
Like we saw in Iraq to juke the stats.
Fighting, incidentally, is the only thing they can do, so if they are paid they'll be expected to fight somebody else.
Ze Dshermans just went on strike. Let ze Bernank, ze French and ze English pay for all zat bullshit...!
And zen? Zen you will see zose as well come runnin' to Berlin asking for help? Economics?
Ze olde ENglishe talking about "eeconomics"? Zats a good joke, a razer lovely one...
Look at your debt levels, dear British and American friends, before u all come running to good ol' Berlin.... lol
I vote we let LetThemEatRand "donate" all his property to helping out his fellow Socialist/Progressives in Greece. It's the least a successful bidness man such as himself is obligated to do, after all, the Greeks "deserve" a Highway system too!
What surrender? MOD and contractors got rid of old equipment and ammo. That's what they do after 10 to 15 years. Time to start over. Its a win win.
Good night, a-ling-a-ling-ling!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP0sqRMzkwo
This is now, officially, too silly.
These people are just fucking idiotic and completely corrupt liars!
Who in the world would take these clusterfuck clowns seriously?
Geezzee!
Good news: (winning, since we're breaking old records from the 1930s)
youth unemployment in Spain reached 51.4% among those aged 16 to 24
Its 51.4% youth unemployment level means that for the first time in a modern European country the majority of young people are out of work. In Greece the figure is 46.6% and in Portugal it is 30.7%.
In November youth unemployment in Britain passed 1 million for the first time in 15 years, equivalent to 22%
On Saturday chancellor George Osborne and Labour leader Ed Miliband joined the leaders of the World Bank and the IMF in urging action to create jobs amid warnings that youth unemployment was a timebomb under the global economy.
Plans to commit €22bn to tackling the scourge of youth unemploymentacross Europe will be considered by EU leaders on Monday as international pressure mounts for action to help young people chart a way through the deepening economic crisis.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/28/youth-unemployment-crisis...
Damn these kids are stupid. Hooked on vids and sneaks, they can't even manage a decent protest. I mean, 50%?! You think they would understand it was due to the government and be pissed.
Yup. It's a V-shaped recovery
It's a V-2 on reentry shaped recovery.
lol. I'm looking forward to buying pieces of Greece and Spain on eBay soon. Might be better than selling wholesale to Germany or vulture private equity firms
I would advise strongly against it. You might pay a price that seems to be quite low, but in fact the deal requires you to pay a steadily incresing monthly fee ("temporary help"). And all you get in return is manjana, with Grease and Pain.
Thats funny! Kid to stupid to protest.
Yep! Two stupid to protest.
Hoo too? U too?
From May 2011 -
Spanish youth rally in Madrid echoes Egypt protests
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13437819
Maybe they are too law abiding or maybe they have just given up. Either way it's a dreadful state of affairs.
Look at birth rates there, and you understand why not so much are protesting...
We need a world war. that would take care of the pesky youth unemployment problem.
The young can still play volleyball on the beach and such. As one who is youthfulness challenged I'm glad they haven't seen the wisdom in the idea of 'fire the old farts and hire someone with some energy'. Still have a few years left before I make my fortune off of Social Security.
Germany has waked away from being blamed for no QE quite adeptly - they blamed the ECB and ECB did LTRO so they off the hook for that.
So while Greeks stuff euros under their mattresses, the EU says they need $130b....no, wait, $145b....and then more....and more....and more. Week after week; this could go on forever, as long as Bernanke is dumping his dual mandate to focus on inflation.
Which reminds me, I have a question for ya'll.....
The Fed is targeting 2% (inflation) but aren't we officially at 3%?
My guess ... Housing prices will now be part of the inflation calculation - so inflation is only 0.1% now, we will exclude all items that have rising prices like food, heating oil and gas. We will keep changing the mix to make sure we stay under 2%.
From your most reliable source - the media
Pretty soon the mix is CPI= <Housing>
Con man Bernank is using "Core PCE," as he said in his press conference last week. Core PCE can't even be found in the Fed's own economic data http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/
"Core PCE" or "PCE minus food and energy" can be found in table 8 of the GDP release http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/2012/txt/gdp4q11_adv.txt
It's the only inflation metric left that the Fed could find under 2%
Also, I cannot believe nobody has called him out on his response to the fixed income investors/savers are getting skrewed question. He indicated that fixed income investors were getting fairly compensated for inflation. I don't get it, how can he say that when you need to buy 10 year paper to make a positive return vs. 1 year CPE let alone real inflation. Maybe if you are elderly and don't leave the house and have your prescriptions subsidised off the backs of the young...is that what he means because this is the only group that doesn't see much inflation.
Unless...he is taking a forward look and believes we are headed for another deflationary cycle?
The elderly don't give a fuck. They're all bitter that they have never had a winning hand with their investments and are fine getting zirped because (their words not mine) they "are going to die soon anyway."
I believe he knows that there is currently a problem with price discovery because the money he put in circulation has gone into consumer debt. The banks got money at what a quarter percent? The used it to float consumer credit cards and car loans along with the occasional mortgage and very occasional refi---so what happened? Consumers tried to delever and got into more debt, the next deleveraging cycle is going to be a doozy. So we keep getting PRICE inflation in foods/necessities and currency deflation. What can these jokers do to solve the problem? The only thing they can do is air-drop cash money to people via tax cuts, via tax credits, or fly over them and drop hundreds of thousands of FRNs on them (helicoptoro!). So to sum it up, the whole damn market looks like it is gonna lock up tight. When Greece slams the door on the credit via default, well there goes the whole credit neighborhood over there. Will that work it's way over here, I think so--then what do you do? Another TARP? LOL! Thats exactly what those fuckers will do! Just hold on to the seat of your pants because things are going to get very entertaining and then downright scary. Just get ready for our own banks to start pulling strange stuff and that old fashioned bank-run feeling that your grandparents or great-grandparents felt.
I think you are right about currency deflation--I believe it has been coupling with price inflation. It is only a matter of time before the two reach critical mass (becuase we are at the end of a cycle that won't stop until the whole damn thing resets). This is not stagflation, I call it indiflation. It is the 2 by 4 that will whack these flatliners square in the face. Bernanke will claim he didn't see it coming.
Good Q Mr Lennon. Inflation is relatively tame for those who don't eat or comsume energy. But in light of declining real wages and household net worth, isn't it rather more? The affordability of life is dropping fast as buying power of a buck plummets.
This is awesome! All we have to do is not eat or go anywhere and we can print forever!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdOCtuXKJII
That's my business plan...
I plan to write a book...
You got somethin' against fricasseed iPads?
The CPI is about 2.9%, but don't worry, Ben is now using the CPCE as the target, and it is only 1.7% now, so no worries, print away!
See Bruce K article for details:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/bernanke-goes-all
2%?? 3%?? no its officially more like 15%
11% according to shadowstats.com
The Bank of Canada targets CPI growth at 2% by trying to keep it range-bound between 1% and 3%, since trying to keep it exactly at 2% is impossible. The Fed probably uses similar methodology.
If you go by PPI, its more like 9%.
Blah Blah
Yep. Except for this:
The CDU -female politician Wolfgang Bosbach, announced that he will not vote for new tools Greece.
That shit's funny!
Excuse my " Nativity".
Don't worry. I won't even touch the manger.
And you're right. It is all blah, blah, blah until the shooting starts.
As long as we all understand that the Greeks have never been bailed out of any of this one little bit, they are still deep in shit and it's getting deeper all the time.
A Greek might ask, "Before you open fire, what bailouts?"
The correct answer is that the Banks got their dough just fine up until now, and now that they may not get it any more ... oh dear ... well it's time to piss on the Greeks and pretend they are the crux of the problem.
Who gave the loans?
Who really got ALL of the bailout bucks?
The same critters who provided these unaffordable debts, via fractional (BS) reserve nothings!
What a fucking lark!
Fucking wake up! ... the banks have lost NOTHING !!!
This 'Debt' is a pure in-your-face fake to begin with!
Making nothing look like something ... that is what bankers do! That is almost ALL they do.
So they can construct a ludicrous web of fake and fraudulent claims on real public assets!
So why the 'eff does everyone keep conveniently forgetting about all this, every time one of these articles about Greek default progression comes out?
"It's dah bankster stupid!"
A commenter above asks, "why should I give a shit about any of this?"
We shouldn't, Greece shouldn't, Germany shouldn't, it has no more significance than a fucking mouse click!
Broke banks should close and never be re-opened!
German State police should arrest any banker still trying to pretend they're solvent, and their assets sold off to recoup the public's pointless loss.
With all that's going on, how can the MSM keep up?
I can rest assured that they will cover all the important stuff.
SARC
A report for the Kiel Institute for the World Economy said Portugal would have to run a primary budget surplus of over 11pc of GDP a year to prevent debt dynamics spiralling out of control, even in a benign scenario of 2pc annual growth.
"Portugal's debt is unsustainable. That is the only possible conclusion," said David Bencek, the co-author, warning that no country can achieve a primary budget surplus above 5pc for long.
"We won't know what the trigger will be but once there is a decision on Greece people are going to start looking closely and realise that Portugal is the same position as Greece was a year ago."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9042963/Investors-fea...
Thanks C/E. Like a house in the " Appalachians" .
LOL. They’re all bad. There goes the neighborhood!
My best to Sue Ellen J.R. That aud is looking a bit [ expensive]?