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Couple Lives In $1.3 Million, 4,900 Square Foot Home For Five Years Without Making A Single Mortgage Payment
Wonder how Americans can afford to buy millions of iGadgets, a second LCD TV for the shoe closet, and eat at restaurants more than almost any time in the past despite sliding personal income? Simple - increasingly fewer pay the biggest staple bill in a US household: their mortgage. The following story of Keith And Janet Ritter, who have lived in their Fort Washington, MD $1.29MM, 4,900 square foot McMansion for 5 years (which they purchase with no money down) without ever making a single mortgage payment, and who are not even close to being evicted, may explain much about the way US society currently operates, and why other perfectly responsible and hard-working taxpayers (who do have to pay for their mortgage) continue to fund tens of billions in Fannie and Freddie losses who are first on the hook to absorb the implicit losses by allowing families such as the Ritters to live in perpetuity without paying, and the banks to keep said mortgage on the books at par without any impairments.
The Washington Post has more on this absolute horror story of a case study of just how busted the USSA has become:
The eviction from their million-dollar home could come at any moment. Keith and Janet Ritter have been bracing for it — and battling against it — almost from the moment they moved into the five-bedroom, 4,900-square-foot manse along the Potomac River in Fort Washington.
In five years, they have never made a mortgage payment, a fact that amazes even the most seasoned veterans of the foreclosure crisis.
The Ritters have kept the sheriff at bay by repeatedly filing for bankruptcy and by exploiting changes in Maryland’s laws designed to help delinquent homeowners avoid foreclosure.
Those efforts to protect homeowners have transformed Maryland’s foreclosure process from one of the country’s shortest to one of the longest. It now takes on average 634 days to complete a foreclosure in Maryland, compared with 132 days in Virginia.
“The market won’t fix itself,” said Anne Norton, Maryland’s deputy commissioner for financial regulations. “By the time it does, how many homeowners will be churned up and spit out by the machine?”
Critics, including economists and lenders, blame the state’s go-slow approach for a growing backlog of foreclosures and a weak-to-nonexistent recovery in home prices. To them, the system puts too much emphasis on helping individual homeowners and not enough on quickly clearing the market of foreclosures so prices can rebound and hard-hit communities can recover. And they say it also creates opportunities for abuse by those determined to drag the process out for as long as possible.
“How is it people can stay in a house for five years without ever making a mortgage payment?” said Thomas A. Lawler, a former senior vice president at Fannie Mae who now runs his own consulting firm in Loudoun County. “That’s a screwed-up process. It’s an example of how the process is broken.”
The Ritters, who bought their house for $1.29 million with almost no money down, are hardly representative of the vast majority of Maryland’s distressed homeowners.
During the boom, they set out to become mini real estate moguls, buying properties and flipping them for a profit. In the process, Keith Ritter, 54, went from being on probation for bankruptcy fraud and making minimum wage to being a successful real estate investor and landlord with a six-figure income. Then, when the housing market tanked five years ago, the couple found themselves facing multiple foreclosures.
The Ritters have tried to negotiate different payment arrangements with their lender to save their posh home near National Harbor, they said, but to no avail.
“It was never our intention to get here and never make a mortgage payment,” Keith Ritter said. “We don’t believe in living for free.”
But he and Janet, a 51-year-old real estate agent, make no apology for using every tactic available to them to stay in their house, including challenging the foreclosure sale in court, requesting mediation and claiming they had a tenant living with them. Their adversaries, they argued, are giant financial institutions with armies of lawyers that are out to make as much money as possible at the expense of homeowners.
“When a bank does all it can to save itself, that’s good business,” Keith said. “When a homeowner does the same thing, he’s called a deadbeat.”
And that, ladies and gents, is why this country is fucked.
Meet the Ritters:
"Keith and Janet Ritter inside their home in Fort Washington, Md. In five years, they have never made a mortgage payment, a fact that amazes even the most seasoned veterans of the foreclosure crisis."
"Janet Ritter in the dining area of their Fort Washington home. The
Ritters make no apology for using every tactic available to them to stay
in their house, including challenging the foreclosure sale in court and
requesting mediation."
"Keith Ritter has a business, Beat It Movers, that involves eviction services, property preservation and cleaning of foreclosed homes. Here, he checks out some ceiling damage in one such home in Fort Washington. Ritter gets the irony of working for some of the same banks that have foreclosed on him. But he has to make money somehow. “All I know is real estate,” he said."
Casa de Ritter:
"The Ritter's Fort Washington home. They have kept their home for so long by repeatedly filing for bankruptcy and by exploiting changes in Maryland’s laws designed to help delinquent homeowners avoid foreclosure."
"Interior of Keith and Janet Ritter's Fort Washington home. Efforts to protect homeowners have transformed Maryland’s foreclosure process from one of the country’s shortest to one of the longest. It now takes on average 634 days to complete a foreclosure in Maryland, compared with 132 days in Virginia"
And when all else fails, beg god for debt forgiveness: "Bible verses are marked that pertain to debt and forgiveness on a table in the Ritters’ home in Fort Washington."
Then again, who needs god when you have hope and change... for some.
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Move those goalposts as fast as you can, you can't catch him, he's the FALLACY MAN! You said VIOLENT crime, and now you are bitching about tax evasion by WHITES and drug smuggling by LATINOS. lol
How is the Dominican Republic doing?
Amazing what a slightly less oppressive government will do to not utterly destroy the population. Amazing what a government that doesn't impose direct taxes will do to develop its nation in a world of kleptocrats.
I want you to copy/paste my entire comment before I dignify this with a response.
Update: 4 hours later that's what I thought. STFU
You are an idiot.
Not as systemic as their neo-plantation masters: organized Jewry.
Chevy Volts? Unlikely. Air Jordans? Probable.
I've middle class black friends. I ache for their humiliation. They are painfully aware that they're being stigmatized by this human waste.
That being said, want to see the worst of caucasian behavior, watch the Wal Mart check out lines for 10 minutes.
They still have a Wal-Mart on Nellis Blvd in Vegas close to Sahara? Nothing like going down there late at night or early morning and seeing the body or bodies lying in the parking lot. For the White Trash Effect & Circus, you would have to go to the Wal-Mart on Sunset in Henderson.
Vegas, Baby!
"Barney Frank could not be reached for comment."
not an obama fan but they haven't paid in 5 years so it's not just obama taking credit for their good fortune
:)
Regardless of what the MSM is telling you about 'improving economy', obviously.......don't believe it. I can tell you this though, THE BANK DOESN"T CARE!!! They can't sell this fuckin' house if the "owners" left, and they're keeping the place clean. BANK WINS!!!!
Goons leave..........squatters enter........house goes to shit!
Goons stay......goons vacuum and clean........house stays relatively clean for next mortgage.
So, this is actually just another African-American family in government housing!?
No, only black people don't have to worry about paying for their mortgages.
Well Bitchezzzzzzzz, that's some nice looking crib material. And based on the threads and tightly manicured lawn,they don't look like they intend tomove out anytime soon either.
But...but...but we never didn't intend to not make a mortgage payment...yeah right.In the old days, they called people like this squatters or MOVE. This country is truly nuts. I bet their credit rating looks like shredded wheat. Ironically, they could probably get a loan.LOL.
Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...we fucked in da ass
It looks like they're keeping the lawn mowed.
There were some weeds in those beds, but not bad.
How about the interior decorating?
The bright purple clashes with the gold velvet couch.
Given that this started under Bush while the housing bubble was allowed under Bush and that hack Republican Greenspan... and Obama is jujst continuing what Republicans started through incompetence... and the fact that only banks could approve the fraudulent loans and hand out the cash while losing track of who own what property in America...
God Bless Republicans and George W. Bush's 'Home Ownership Society'! Under Republican "Bad Gub'mint" which only Republicans seem capable of producing, every American would have been owning our own debt-laden companies using mark-to-market fantasy accounting. A Republican "Business Ownership Society".
Romney 2012! And a "Business Ownershipo Society"! Continuing where Bush left off!
The entire US population should do this, at the same time as they dont pay their taxes - modern day revolution!
"Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience ... Therefore [individual citizens] have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."
Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, 1950
This would, for sure, include paying taxis that support murdrous, criminal regime such as ours.
Why not? Obama encouraging it.
The government’s need to protect neighborhoods from blight and renters from eviction by keeping the current owners in place is outweighing concern that taxpayers will end up bailing out real-estate investors.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-05/boom-era-property-speculators-to-get-foreclosure-aid-mortgages.html
Yes, beginning May 1, 2012 --> http://maydaycalltoaction.wordpress.com/.
One day of concerted (and massive) civil disobedience. Protest; occupy (or Occupy® if you prefer); strike; stop making payments on credit cards, student loans, mortgages, car payments, rent, etc.; boycott; film a cop violating someone's rights (shouldn't be too hard to find) . . . ANYTHING!
Then, with the money you save, buy gold, silver, guns, ammo, food, etc.
The point is massive and focused action. Dispersed action doesn't work. A day, a month, a year of systematic and well-timed action can. Imagine if everyone missed payments on ALL consumer debt for only 2 months. Game over. Spread the word.
One day of ...
One day? ONE FUCKING DAY?
You CAN'T be serious.
It's DUMBASS thinking like these moronic 1 day "protests" that'll keep a real revolution from ever happening.
One fucking day.
God, what dumbass morons.
when is comig to NJ. I need a house upgrade. I will gladly pay the bank 60% of the NPV for a foreclosed property
You are correct and they are the extreme but not the only ones. There are alot of US families in the same predicament and they are sitting quietly in their houses doing the same thing as they are. Some as astute as the Ritters, others not so much. I totally agree that when this whole came finally implodes, it will all come tumbling down.
... and the Soviet Washington Post dared to write a story about these "deprived people."
Mofos!
But the real question is.
Are they UPSIDE DOWN on their mortgage?
Is there any EQUITY in their real estate? I'm sure somone could offer them another loan on top!
LOL, yea, they should qualify for a HELOC, it they landed in that house.
Why not since they are giving out retail stimulus.
You hit a nerve Tyler....you'll have 500 comments on this story.
you'll have 500 comments on this story.
I'll take the OVER on that one...
Just ticked over 500
it was a slow monday, most other posts have less than 100. . .
edit: yeah, downtick me - it's the truth tho'
Obama's America!
Yes, the banks made shitty moves, at the same time no one forced these people into subprime loans to purchase their mcmansions and live beyond their means. Obama places blame on the banks and wall street..etc. He will never admit it was also the government and these idiots getting into these loans. I am sick and tired of doing the right thing, living within my means, while my money bails out these parasites and the banks.
YES WE DID!
I think they figured out how the system really works by unconsciously emulating the big banks and the government.
#Winning!
Gaming the system(stealing)..............................no difference between them and the Fed.(both theiving)
Forget the bible verses,big difference in theft, and debt TRYING to be paid.
You cannot find solace,nor forgiveness in taking it out of context.
If something is infested, burn it down to the ground!! Worthless fucks!!
It's stories like this that remind me that foreclosure isn't always a bad thing.
Thanks for the taste of stomach acid Tyler. Then again, this story should be faxed to the Fed Chairman daily to remind him of what he has wrought.
SERIOUS OT, don't banhammer me man..
JG, I cannot even load your site anymore there are so many damn scripts running, please simplify, simple is more!!!
All this money Reggie claims he makes and he does not have the decency to pay his mortgage. Oh wait that is not Reggie.
Reggie is a honorary Aryan.
Bullish for walmart
Well despite all the observations one could make, at least they bothered to go get a mortgage and are generating some income... here in the UK, the eaters don't even need to go through that bothersome process or even try to work
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/topstories/3741234.EALING____12_000_a_month_council_housing/
Yes, this is an outlier, but it happened. I believe they got rehoused in 2009 btw.
JPM GS C levered the mortgage up to to 42m bucks worth of CDS... Good for the goose good for gander... TBTF have to go. Real estate is shaelter and an expense not a debt burden for childres... Clawbacks from whole usery credit cylcle.. Clear it out..... Hey mortgage is one thing TAXES are another...
Awesome. Just fucking awesome.
What would be even more interesting is to see how this particular mortgage (with no payments made in 5 years) is shown on the bank's books the past 5 years.
why, this sucker is worth 105 cents on the dollar!
Better yet the homeowners themselves are still considered "well to do" in community circles.
Easy - marked at 100% value. They probably even have it marked as "performing"...
In the A traunch on at least 25 MBS.
Re-hi-poth-e-cation!!!!! (my fellow Bitchez).
Let's see here....we will just move this non-performing loan over to the performing loan side of the ledger and poooffffff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Liability now an asset that can be securitized and sold to fannie.
NEXT!!!!!
Spread your ass cheeks nice and wide and say AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sold as MBS. Problem solved sarc
No problem as long as someone is paying the property taxes. Who's paying those right now, anyway? Another ten years he owns through adverse posession.
I bet the bank can't find the loan docs that were shreaded by MERS.
Not that long ago I would have thought these people should be ashamed of themselves. Not anymore. This story makes me smile.
Stop paying taxes. Stop paying mortgages owned by the DC/NY Axis of Evil. Stop buying "things". Take all of your money out of the markets and banks. Run up as much debt as possible and default. Help bring about the collapse.
Cloward and Piven?
conrad - right now you have 34 up and 3 down. you see - that's cute idea, borrow and don't pay back. but - negative energy produces negative results. if somebody lent me money that i decided to borrow - i want and like to pay them back. if i do a days work, i want to get a days pay. i know so many people that tax dodge in one way or another. i'm constantly telling them - ' i want to pay taxes, it means i am making money and i want them to provide community services in return. based on a social communal way' (of course i'm not always happy with the way that money is spent, but that is outside of the moral issue right now). if i don't like the way they spend the communal money - the answer isn't to stop paying, it's to change the leadership of the spenders.
i know - i'm old.
@lotsoffun - Nostalgic, but fresh - seriously, no one thinks that way anymore. I like the idea of going back to how it should have been, I really do. Unfortunately, there are all these asshole bankers and clueless politicians pissing in my cheerios. BTW, changing leadership isn't going to solve a damned thing until these asshole voters wake the fuck up and elect a real leader.
Sorry, dude, but what you are suggesting is a ticket to hell--you want to live in a failed state, go right ahead, there are plenty to choose from. Mexico, Somalia, Ivory Coast, Uganda...
We don't have to go to such extremes, there is a middle road. In fact, I was with you right up to the "run up as much debt as possible" and then you lost me. I would rather see a soft collapse--one where we maintain a sense of normalcy while the gravy train ends for those who never deserved it in the first place. I'm all for giving folks a helping hand, but let's do it locally and not include billionaire bankers.
"I would rather see a soft collapse...."
HAHA. Good one.
See Plazidow above ^
Yes, beginning May 1, 2012 --> http://maydaycalltoaction.wordpress.com/.
One day of concerted (and massive) civil disobedience. Protest; occupy (or Occupy® if you prefer); strike; stop making payments on credit cards, student loans, mortgages, car payments, rent, etc.; boycott; film a cop violating someone's rights (shouldn't be too hard to find) . . . ANYTHING!
Then, with the money you save, buy gold, silver, guns, ammo, food, etc.
The point is massive and focused action. Dispersed action doesn't work. A day, a month, a year of systematic and well-timed action can. Imagine if everyone missed payments on ALL consumer debt for only 2 months. Game over. Spread the word.
Give me a fucking break! A deathbeat fraud who baught a house without any money and who never paid!
And THAT is funded by tax dollars that pay for the paper the fiat money is printed on which pays for all that stuff!
In socialist europe, everybody thinks it's normal that the gov. Pays for everything because there's enough money.... Was enough money.... Now we're broke!
Don't support this! This will be paid back by all of you guys!
Give ME a fucking break!! What bank and/or mortgage commpany is so fucking stupid that they APPROVED a no-money-down loan?? I guess everyone assumes that the borrowers are the MBA-degreed, high IQ people in every mortgage taking advantage of the retarded cretins who are paid $50 million a year to run the bank.
Okay.... HANG BOTH OF THEM!
YES!!
partners in crime.
Everyone blames the borrowers, the motgage brokers, the banks and the builders etc etc etc. The fact is that these things wouldn't happen without massive subsidisation of the US housing market by the US Government. This is a fact that is easily lost on people looking at housing. The Feds are 100% of housing today. Without the Feds, there would be no US housing market.
What is more the entire sub-prime debacle had several limbs to it. One of them was the pressure put on banks to lend to "minorities" because statistically it was found that home ownership rates among them were lower than among the white majority AND rates of credit refusal/rejection were higher. Enter the Clinton Administration (remember them anybody?) This is a problem that has roots in the racial "activism" of the Clinton Administration back in the 1990s. People hurl abuse at Bernanke, Greenspan, Bush and Obama but not one even remembers how mortgage lending got systematically dumbed down to meet the government's "targets" for minority lending. The rest as they say is history.
It would not have happened without SECURITIZATION. Period.
Securitization would not have happened without legions of buyers of said securities. PERIOD.
Securitization would not have happened without gold in sacks and AAA ratings from Standard and Poors.
The US gov has been encouraging house buying since 1934, so that is not a sufficient explanation and neither does it explain commercial MBS nor concurrent housing bubbles in other countries.
Securitization was the central cause because it disconnected local knowledge of the buyer from people putting up the money. That disconnected downside risk from the people bundling the mortgages, so the incentives were predictable. (1984)
In any system, if you add enough layers of people, no one can be directly blamed. The result is diffusion of responsibility, which is amplified when there are financial incentives. Enabling factors:
* Investment banks went public, relieving them of skin in the game. (1990s)
* Most ratings agencies switched to being paid by issuer instead of buyer, predictably slanting incentives. (1980s)
* If anyone with deep pockets wants to buy crap in an un-openable velvet box, there is an infinite supply. (forever)
That completes the whole circuit. All it needed was interest rates to be too low for too long.
In socialist europe people will not have the opportunity to buy a $1 Million home
with no money down - thats the american dream.
YES WE CAN !
"The servent fell on his knees before him, "be patient with me "he begged" and i will pay back everything!!!!
There is a friend who i lent money to, everytime i call him up he swears upon his mothers life that he will pay me back! he stalled me for over 7 months.. i felt embarrassed within my self to call him up to pay me back! The guy always and always had an execuse not to pay!
JESUS! i have given up on him and i told him that i dont want the money back!
Does that make me a sucker! lol
I'll gladly pay you next week for a hamburger today... Wimpy
hahaha!
Thanks for giving me cash!
I gave a girlfriend money when I was young. She said it was a loan and I didn't want that to screw with our friendship so I said "No, you need it, I am giving it to you."
A year and a half later I was broke and needed a wisdom tooth removed. Lot of pain. She heard about it from a friend of mine and went through hell to get me the money I needed for my tooth. I would have never asked. It is true I gave her the money, but I cannot tell you how humbled I was that she came through for me when I needed it. Both the giving and receiving felt wonderful. No head games.
that's definitely the way to treat fiat, spread it 'round like fertiliser. . .
in my british circle of friends we were always waiting on the next gig's money, or the next royalty cheque from publishing, etc. - our way of hanging out was whoever had the money at the time, got the pub rounds in, or paid for the meal - whether it was home-cooked or restaurant. . .
I tried to continue that back in the States, but my amrkn friends couldn't stop with the "keeping tabs running' in their minds - "no, you got it last time, this is mine" - saving face (fake) or not wanting to be "indebted to" or whatever - in the end, I gave up, they re-trained me to just "look after myself" when it came to sharing meals, etc.
which is sad, if you ask me. . . luckily I've finally found a more compatible circle to share within now. . .
Ever seen a Bronx Tale?
Did you like this friend of yours? How much did you lend him? For the small sum you lent this "friend" consider him out of your life forever. Good ridance
1. Fannie and Freddie should not be involved with any mortgage that is beyond one standard deviation of the U.S. median home price, regardless of location.
This alone, would help self-limit future real estate bubbles.
2. This is a nice house, but it's a $400K-$600K house here in the midwest on a 10-acre lot. The D.C./MD/VA area is overpriced because we've allowed it to become a one-stop influence zone for large law firms, lobbyists, foundations, think tanks, and politicians.
3. If this home is representative of remaining shadow inventory, we have a long way to go.
Praise Jesus!
Their Mexican gardener?
yeah, I'm wondering what the upkeep on this McMansion is or just run it into the ground
Welp, they're likely paying the property taxes and HOAs on it at the very least..
One of our gardeners' first names was Jesus. Our two cleaning ladies were Fatima and Guadalupe.
Who says it's not getting weird?
You are lucky it wasn't Concepcion.
The least they could do is take in a couple of homeless.
@ JPM Hater 001. AMEN! thank you. their luxurious accommodations at the very least give the lie to their protestations of victimization, only augmented by their hypocritical holy roller pretentiousness. despicable .
Maybe they did. They claimed to have a renter...
Hey Zeus!
Correction - Their Illegal Mexican gardener.
Reading the title alone, I thought you were talking about Obama..
No, that is 4 years, not 5.
Living the American dream - hard work, earned prosperity, ... oh snap...
Good for them. Nice furnishings too. I wonder who's on the hook for that.
Wonder what their cars look like.
Frankly, I really don't blame them. They are gaming a broken system.
Fuck that. These people are leeches.
My point is if "The System" was working correctly, they'd have never gotten a loan in the first place. I've been hearing about the "high costs" of non-performing credit card loans for years. Hey, if you don't like the non-payment, quit making the F-ing loans!
What pisses "me" off--is since this is Fannie & Freddie, "I/we" are all paying for this crap. The system is broken--that is what needs to be fixed. Quit subsidising housing/loans with my tax $$.
This is all because there is no punishment for bad behavior/being stupid by the banks and lenders.
Only the very small close down - the big ones have almost no fear of bankruptcy for any actions they take. The Govt has:
1) provided a secondary market for them to quickly flip any and all originated loans, making assessment of risk non-existent except for appearances
2) provided a huge backstop for them "just in case" so that they will never face the music
3) provided them with free money to speculate with and guaranteed them free profits using this money.
if "The System" was working correctly
I agree with you, but let me suggest a different perspective. The System is working EXACTLY as the welfare-statists want it to. Nothing better than when regular folks chip in to accelerate the collective evaporation of wealth and shift everything to the central planning complex.
Remember good old Greenspan, when he spoke truth:
http://www.321gold.com/fed/greenspan/1966.html
Excerpts:
But the welfare statists were quick to recognize that if they wished to retain political power, the amount of taxation had to be limited and they had to resort to programs of massive deficit spending, i.e., they had to borrow money, by issuing government bonds, to finance welfare expenditures on a large scale.
The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.
This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.
RacerX
My point is if "The System" was working correctly, they'd have never gotten a loan in the first place.
Oh, but you see THEY did get into legally, thanks to the Demoncrats, and the Dodd-Frank Bill.
The Banks here, are not the blame HERE.
For once,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,They were BLACKMAILED by Clinton, and the Demoncratic Congress.(this law, screwed up the system).
You either MAKE the loans(to people not qualified) or else, we are going to shit in your NEST big time.
Capeche'??
Yeah, 5 years ago, I would have scorned them as scummy leeches, too. Then Wall St took over the country. They were too big to fail, you see. Then I saw JP Morgan 'return the keys' of 5 SF-area ofice buildings they'd bought at the top of the market - buildings they could have written a check for 1000X over, but they made a strategic business decison to just.....default. Nothing personal, it's just good business, you see. Then I watched Jon Corzine rob hundreds (thousands?) of his clients at MFG, and walk away with no talk whatsoever of him facing criminal charges. He is just too connected to proscesute, you see.
So fuck 'em all. You GO, leeches!
So are the banks.........and until bankers go to jail, there will be no faith in the SYSTEM...
welcome to the underground, black market........
@ Mr Lennon
+ $1.3 million
Yes, yes, yes! They are leeches, and WE are paying for it. Burns my butt that my family (and almost everybody I know -- one exception) pay their bills.
wow I just clicked once on your green arrow and your greens went from 20 to 28 and your reds went from -2 to -5.
Maybe Tyler really likes my opinions!
These people made a business decision so did the bank that loaned them the money. Are they gaming the system sure, but your government encourages and empowers this through fannie / freddie. The bank is also a leach as they know the bill wil lbe passed to yo uand me won't it, besides if the MBA can hand the keys back why not these folks, embrace the horror..
Embrace The Horror, it is not going away it is accelerating..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_Bankers_Association
If these people were the run of the mill mortgage owners then I wouldn't have a problem, but she is a real estate agent, and he helps banks clean up forclosed homes. The are not gaming the system, they are gaming my taxes; taxes which I don't want to pay anyways. Fuck these people and anyone who bought a house they have never paid on, especially when they bought the house for this purpose.
when you say
I'm assuming you mean the bank? the bank that isn't following traditional protocol and foreclosing / evicting them, like they do in many other cases, simply because it BENEFITS the bank to keep the "asset" on their "books"?
those leeches?
Obviously the bank is. Obviosuly. She is a real estate agent and he cleans up forclosures, and they never paid a mortgage. Get that? They never paid. They could have sold a painting, she didn't have to buy leather pants, they could have paid once. But they never did. Why? Because they are leeching the system. They were not gamed by a bank. They knew the loopholes, and they benefitted, at the expense of everyone that does pay taxes.
most folks "flipping" properties will live in at least one of their "holdings" while they re-do another, or put a few on the market while they camp in another, at least from what I've read, so sounds like they hit their wall where they landed.
but it's cool - they can be leeches, why not? it's amrka, if you're not leeching this system, then the System is leeching someone else's on your behalf. . . giant ponzi leeching, everybody's sipping on someone nowadays. . .
So I should make it a point to screw over everyone else? These people have no sense of what's right. They are only doing what is in there best interest at the expense, litterally, of everyone else.
And as to where they landed, why did they not make a single payment? Maybe because they planned on never paying and living rent free as long as possible.
yeah, of course - they're "these people" and that's what "these people" do. . .
and if you want to make it a point to screw everyone else, you can be a "these people" too. . . dude, the "sense of what's right" is intrinsic to the individual - if YOU don't feel good doing something, that's your sense of what's right kicking in. . . someone else might have a list of justifications for their sense of "right" - the scale can run from sociopath to devout believer, and all the rules that go with each.
most everyone acts in their own interest, and everyone else has an opinion about it. the couple in the article acted in their best interests, they're not hurting anyone with their choice, including the bank that won't act on them - they're less harmful than anyone in govt., or the military, or the corporations, etc. etc.
before you read this article, how did they impact your life at all? it's the same game when folks default on credit cards or refuse to pay taxes, stop siding with the overlords.
All that shit was problably bought with a HELOC...tee hee
Undoubtedly 1 black Mercedes and 1 white Escalade. Nigger rich vehicles of choice in D.C.
They have now been 'outed'...
My thoughts exaclty. That foreclusure notice will surely come sooner now.
First rule of Operation Mayhem...
Zero down (or almost zero down) houses, are stil being handed out by the thousands so don't hold your breath. I wouldn't buy a house now since the chances are greater then 80% it will be a slum in a few years.
arent they the group that moved in with Larry David
They see me rollin'...
I suppose if I were a proper debt slave I would proclaim that it's bad when people do this.......but good when corporations do it.
Because when corporations do it........."it's just business". But when people do it........."it's immoral".
Do I have that right master?
You do realize you fund either case, right? Perhaps one's wallet cares that the money leaving it involuntarily is used for ethically 'right' vs 'wrong' causes...
Of course we fund both cases.
My point was simply to highlight the double standard we (as debt slaves) are conditioned to apply. We are constantly told that what is good for the master is good for the slave. Bullshit.
There is no honor among thieves. The double standard is breaking down. The shitty part is that it is breaking down towards the lowest common demoninator - which is a complete lack of honor and moral character. Once enough people say "fuck it" and game the system, it will be game over. The problem at that point, much like where we are today, is that seperating cause and effect will be so screwed up no one will be able to say they have clean hands. I suppose that is exactly what the game is though.
Exxon's math is to employ an army of lawyers is cheaper than settling a lawsuit over Exxon Valdez and paying out billions.
There is one example of how Corporate America is "exploiting" laws.
Corporate America = Corporate Finance, Corporate Media, Corporate Military = Corporate Government
".. and the Oscar for best performing crooks of the year goes to .. "
Now that is a show I would tune in to.
Why don't you say "Exxon has come to the incontrovertible conclusion that they must employ an army of attorneys in order to survive the hive of thieves called US .gov?"
Nice try. US.gov didn't pollute Alaska's coast line and drove good men who worked all their lives as fishers to commit suicide.
But I will give you that both US.gov and Corporate Energy have the same masters = Corporate Finance.
A tremendous amount of assumption!
You do realize there is no collectivism in the law, right?
"'right' vs 'wrong'"
If these people were doing something wrong... they would be getting sued. BTW I know a few people that stopped paying and now have houses free and clear.
Wrong... is stupid humans like yourself Tyler that believe a system based on the requirement for exponential growth thinking it's sustainable.
I laugh at people like you that think there is some collectivism, sorry buddy it doesn't exist.
I agree wid you (except for the insulting our overlord part)
I know someone who apparently has gotten a townhouse free and clear after non-ability to pay the mortgage/s, whos "renter" following the exact tactic of the storied "home buyer" above, is stealing the house from her as squatter. I don't think she ever made a single rent payment (the "renter")
This moral dilemma is fun
This battle can never be won
Who should succeed
When all embrace greed?
That's why this whole system is done!
Ahh you put my feelings into words so much better then I ever could!!! Right on Limerick King!
+++
That's why this whole system is done!
No, the system is done because of Math. You can't exponential grow a system forever, which is what you would need to avoid a system collapse. 8th grade math.
And what date does your equation predict the system would have imploded without greed?
Generally you get 6-8 decades before the equation starts hitting a wall.
If you didn't have greed the system simply would not exist, as this system is just like the old system, which was like the system before, etc.
How did Byzantium survive for 800 years?
There are lots of societies that survived more than 60-80 years.
This system is NOTHING like the old system, which only resembled the system before that on the surface.
You only "hit a wall" when you induce ARTIFICIAL exponential growth through manipulation of the money supply via the interest rate. In a free system, the money to pay the interest comes 100% from consumer spending, and it makes sense to borrow money for the right reasons, ie capital investment, which allows the borrower to seize a larger portion of that consumer spending.
If you don't believe me, take the limit cases. In a world where everyone saves every penny, forgoing even money to buy food, and they all put their saved money in the bank, the interest rate becomes zero, because the supply of money to lend is very high, while there is little or no demand for borrowing money. The other limit case, where everyone spends as much as they possibly can, interest rates become arbitrarily high, as there is no money to lend, and very high demand. Every other situation in a free system falls somewhere between those two extremes. There is no handwaving "exponential function" that "must be met".
How did Byzantium survive for 800 years?
Who said the world had to end? You are setting up a strawman argument.
There are lots of societies that survived more than 60-80 years.
Who said societies can't survive? Matter of fact when the last system which is just like the current system collapsed... societies survived just fine over here at the cost of 100+ million across the pond. This time the system will collapse and billions will have to go the way of the dinosaur.
You only "hit a wall" when you induce ARTIFICIAL exponential growth through manipulation of the money supply via the interest rate.
Sorry buddy its pure 8th grade Math. Interest rates have absolutely nothing to do with it. Tell you what, raise the interest rates right now and watch the destruction in a matter of days.
There is no handwaving "exponential function" that "must be met".
Comments here makes absolutely no sense. I assure you once max height is reached max fall will have to be reached as you can't fund the prior because you don't have the yield... collapse.
As far as I can see the system is working perfectly.
Welcome back, Mako.
Soylent Black, People is Oil !!!
"Who said the world had to end?"
"This time the system will collapse and billions will have to go the way of the dinosaur."
lol.
As far as interest rates, of course raising them would cause a collapse, but it would be an ICELANDIC collapse, rather than a WEIMAR or ROMAN collapse. We would go into a deep but brief recession/depression, and in a couple of years the capital would be reallocated, and things would be fine again. This has been shown numerous times throughout history.
You don't understand that exponential rises can end in an equilibrium. With living systems this is the most likely outcome by a wide margin. It is only when signaling is interfered with, as in the current case, that a catastrophic population crash will occur.
No diference... a collapse is a collaspe... same thing happens to all the systems but ones based on interest ie exponential growth have a very short life span.
the money to pay the interest comes from consumer spending?!? Where the hell do the consumers get their money from? Other consumers?
In a compound interest monetary environment, the interest can ONLY be paid by more borrowing, because that is the only way additional money can come into existence. In a gold standard, it comes from mining more gold. In tally sticks, it comes from pure fiat. There is no way around these axioms.
Your limit cases are idiotic and logically wrong. Consumers spend money; the money goes into bank accounts of those who sold to them.
I have read comments only to this point. I see you and TM as having valid points. Unless I missed something, I think that the objection to what you are putting forward is that there has been systemic intervention. You cannot know what the natural market for loans is if they do artificial things. Also there are lots of folks getting loans (ie credit cards) that are paying well over .25%, 1%, or 5% for that matter. So there is some demand for loans, but the system is not making lower interest rates available to those folks. Your comments make a lot of sense, but they do not address the intervention aspect, or the fact that there are folks who want loans who can't get them at the low rates the bankers can get them for.
You know me, I feel the confines of the Petri dish we are out growing. Peak oil eventually got me to the financial blogs. I agree with a lot of what you say, but some of it is not adding up.
the system of credit charges what the market will bear. Simple as that.
Sure more lending COULD be done at lower rates, but you have to factor risk into this. Revolving credit is not the best example of interest rate regimes
lolwat? The people get their money from production. They produce the things that other people need.
What, you think money flows one way? You think consumers only spend the money they borrow?
God, you really have taken to the crackpipe. This is really simple.
yup, but...
you could say borrowing is like hunting with a rattlesnake. if you can get the snake to bite something out there, you're good. if not, the sucker turns and bites you. (its gonna bite somewhere) that's the hunt for productivity, or real value.
borrowing with levered up debtmoney is like thinking you got your rattlesnake, but it turns out to be dozens of rattlesnakes all looking for the same lonely prey. lots of them are gonna come up hungry, and they all bite. ain't enough productivity to feed them all.
the banksters are in the business of conjuring and then handing out hunting snakes; but they gamed the system so they never get bit, so they never have a reason to stop.
only one get bit are non-banksters. so the bankers no longer need productivity as prey - our assets will do fine. but banks can't survive withour making more snakes, cause with fractional reserve, there's always more snakes than prey. that's the wrinkle more people need to get clear on.
Your metaphor is really strained, aside from the fact that I am talking about a FREE banking system, not a central banking system.
Greed is what makes 'the system' work.
Gubmint intervention - Fan & Fred are the impetus at the core of the rot - is 'why the whole system is done'.
Obooba's dream of more gubmint is fucked in the head.
You are exactly incorrect. The power of unregulated greed will manipulate and destroy the powerless...which is exactly what has happened/is happening. Greed is Evil. Rand was incorrect (to be kind) and so are you.
Rhyme and reason differ.