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Daniel Hannan Channels Upton Sinclair, Warns "All The Options From Here Are Bad"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

"All the options from here are bad, I am afraid" is how MEP Daniel Hannan describes the way forward in Europe in this FOX News interview. In one of the clearest and least status-quo-hugging explanations of what has occurred (gentile and bloodless coups in Italy and Greece), the 'cruel and irresponsible behavior' of European leaders stuns him and all in the name of the 'wretched single-currency'. When asked why they (the EU leaders) just don't get it (channeling Upton Sinclair's now infamous quote), Hannan replies "It is remarkably difficult to make a man understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" as he makes it clear that the vested interests in keeping the Euro going (well paid and powerful government jobs for example) means they are prepared to inflict this shocking poverty on the Mediterranean countries. Summing it up nicely: until they leave the Euro, the Greeks have got no light at the end of the tunnel, making the point that Greece's least painful option is to Default, Decouple, and Devalue.

 

Starting from around 0:55, the European Member of Parliament begins his less than sanguine discussion:

 

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Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:06 | 2171071 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Greece wont default, so plan accordingly.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:14 | 2171120 The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

Their politicians put into power won't let them default.  The people WILL Default

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:26 | 2171180 agent default
agent default's picture

That's why the Greek default is so scary, the political will is dead against the default.  If if happens regardless, it means that the have totally lost control of the situation.  This will be the reason behind the panic after a Greek default, and this is why Greece cannot be contained.  The fallout is more political than financial at  this point.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:41 | 2171228 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Revolution.  The killing will commence.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:42 | 2171230 economics1996
economics1996's picture

America will have its turn, get ready.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:58 | 2171298 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Nah... don't think so. Our manufactures are returning home. The slopes can't keep us in asia when the dollar sinks, so we will rebuild our base.

The whole exercise of musical chairs may stop for a while, but USA will be fine. We got two oceans, oil, hard workers and we are gonna vote out the idiot child and his commie buddies in a few months.

We'll be back on top while your socialist fucktards are trying to figure out how we keep doing that.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:12 | 2171373 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Well, Chief, I hope the Braves will win it this year, but I has my doubts.  I got some doubts about the manufacturing thing too.  But, holy cow scoop, Ghostrider, I hope ur right about the Bummerman! 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:36 | 2171474 trav7777
trav7777's picture

there is light at the end of the tunnel for lazy, greasy greeks only when they stop lounging in cafes pretending to work and actually start producing.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:57 | 2171545 machineh
machineh's picture

My my, aren't we superior?


Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:51 | 2172719 margaris
margaris's picture

@trav7777

since when is working as a wage slave or indentured servant the goal in life?

Isn't 30 years of work enough? Why do some assholes believe we have to work till 67 or more?

Why, because they are debt slaves to the banks, and have to pay their mortgage forever??

It's such a death spiral.... what a vicious cycle.

My advice: get out of debt and live an easy simple life. Dont buy things you cant afford.

Try to exist outside of socialist state programs. Be independent. Dont expect anything, dont

impose anything.

 

Life is easy, why do we make it so hard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21j_OCNLuYg

We dont need to be consumer bitches... we want to have a poor but free life.

its so easy.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 10:57 | 2172771 bugfixx
bugfixx's picture

Too many people's careers in the West now depend on being state-paid busybodies hectoring the citizenry on how to live.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:54 | 2171717 Nacho Libre III
Nacho Libre III's picture

The greeks will produce soon enough, probably a revolution. Meanwhile, if you are in the u.s., you can observe laziness enabled on a scale that foreigners could only dream of.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 19:29 | 2171806 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I guess you can't call the 'baristas' lazy...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 20:37 | 2171944 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

Have you ever produced anything Trav? Aren't you a trader? ;-)

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 22:14 | 2172118 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

And Trav what do you produce other than anonymous hate-screeds on the internet?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:17 | 2171614 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

1) There is no such thing as a sovereign default.  The bond holders don't accept a declaration of default because there is no bankruptcy court to force them to.  They keep sending bills demanding payment, forever.  So default doesn't do anything for Greece other than let them skip some payments and not be able to borrow money to fund pensions and government employee paychecks -- given no one will lend to them within 24 hrs of default declaration and a deficit requires borrowing.

2) The choice is endure that calamity NOW or go along with the EU's plan and stretch out the pain to a lesser amount for a longer time and even provide themselves with a bit of hope that a miracle will appear and end the pain altogether.  After all, about 50% of their debt is about to be forgiven so this approach of extend and pretend is about to yield results.

Based on these two realities, why would they default?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 21:10 | 2172001 donsluck
donsluck's picture

The debtor's "miracle" you refer to is, of course, death.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 21:35 | 2172039 itstippy
itstippy's picture

There's no legal framework for a default of sovereign Greek bonds, no.  But the practical result would be that the bonds become worthless, illiquid nothings that CAN'T be held as "assets" on a balance sheet.  The losses must be acknowledged.  No way to extend, pretend, mark-to-model, whatever.  There's no collateral.  They go to zip.  The bondholders can keep sending bills, but it would be like billing the Confederate States of America.  Good luck with that.

Why would Greece default?  They get fed up with the EU threatening their sovereignty, their Abrams Tanks aren't defending the Motherland so hot, so they tell the EU to fuck off and takes their chances.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 22:02 | 2172095 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Why would they default? That's not the question. Why would they stay in the euro? If they return to the drachma, they can value drachmae at parity with euros and print the money to pay back their debts. The drachma would immediately lose half its value, but Greece loses ALL of its debt, and best of all, they utterly shaft the thugs at the ECB who hold most of their debt.

What's not to like?

They've already lost access to international debt markets, 25% of the country's businesses have shut down, and Greeks are fleeing in droves. What have they got to lose?

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 15:00 | 2173204 ernan
ernan's picture

To me it is obvious. The Drachma would be instantly worthless. They would have instant hyperinflation nobody would trade with them for anything. They would be an instant Zimbabwe. For the greek people it would be a complete nightmare. The Greeks have to keep suffering this constant humiliation and finger pointing and everything else because they have no option they have to beg Europe to solve their debt problem because outside the Euro is instant financial doom.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 15:47 | 2173330 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Yeah, default is not a viable option.  It didn't work in Iceland and it won't work in Greece, either.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 00:22 | 2174305 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

But the Iceland economy is recovering nicely and Fitch just raised their credit to BBB.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 04:13 | 2174478 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Greece has a lot of assets that will attract the currency to augment what they can't produce locally. The greeks got a solid ship works infra structure - the ageans - their culture. The bailout would require a lot of that stuff to be auctioned off. The drachma might be worthless outside greece, but it would work inside greece.

Lets not forget - the bets were made between politicians - and banks like goldmans that wrote up the placement docs with sexed up debt service analysis and banker off book gimmicks , and then - not too unexpectedly the GS bet against the placement / structure note they sold as a service to the greeks. Look what GS did for Ghadafi - someday someone somewhere is not going to rollover so willingly when the GS plays em - some people and cultures take that shit personal.

Iceland told scam insiders the bet was with the bankers so investors need to settle with the bankers. The bankers failed to markup the risk - fiduciary malfeasance nullifies the consignor's liability as the "full faith and credit" source of last resort, Iceland turned around a lot quicker than those who went for the IMF teat. PIMCO's Gross advised the Greeks to default. If that happened the GS would have pay the CDS claims - and that's the real reason this never ending charade of default mitigation is dragging on - the CDS writers are looking for the bucks to pay the bond holders that bought the paper GS placed. The greeks never had nothing to do with it - it's always been an argument over what a "default" is. At what haircut level does the global CDS arbitrator call a default and GS has to pay up to it's CDS counter parties - it's getting redicked to max - last proposed default state scenario was defined as a less than 50% return of principal to bond holders.

Greeks don't need the EZ - after all, they're greeks - but GS - GS needs to cover its ass,

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 22:15 | 2172121 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

"we got oil" that's a good one... lol

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:54 | 2172363 darkhorse222
darkhorse222's picture

well maybe for evey one returning 10 are leaving-big whoop

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 22:39 | 2172171 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

If you mean "killing" literally...how will the Greeks kill the EU bankers?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:38 | 2171218 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The Greeks should burn everything to the ground.  Leave the creditors nothing but ashes and rocks.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:41 | 2171232 youngman
youngman's picture

I posted a video of Greece the other day...pretty pictures of lots of old ruins...now they will have new ruins...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:47 | 2171245 Yellowhoard
Yellowhoard's picture

They'd just be doing the new owners a favor.

Other than the Parthenon, Greece is pretty much a tear down anyway.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:13 | 2171379 Seer
Seer's picture

Investment tip: Halliburton (the eternal ambulance chasers)

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:41 | 2171499 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Yeah, because the willfully ignorant, lazy Greek that thinks he can retire at 50 and live off a government pension and healthcare until he's 90 or 95 has no culpability in this mess...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:03 | 2171566 Confused
Confused's picture

I love Americans, especially the ones who think its natural to work 80+ hours a week with 10 days off a year. As if its natural.

 

Lazy Greeks? Maybe they just understand something you don't? Or maybe not. Either way. I hope all that "hard work" is worth it in the end.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 21:18 | 2172014 Pennywise
Pennywise's picture

Everyone should go to school to be in IB, make tons of money, get addicted to hookers and coke and then tell everyone else they are lazy.  My roommate is an accountant who comes home after 14-16 hr days, complains that his job sucks but can't wait for that 15% bonus to spend on some broad who doesn't call him back after hitting skins because he's a boring schmuck who's sold his soul.  Faust was saved because his goals were noble. 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:47 | 2172406 Cugel
Cugel's picture

We're happy to let anyone work as much or as little as they want -- just so their consumption remains in line with production. If you don't want to consume anything, you're free to not work at all. If you want stuff others have produced, your time is your bid.

At least that's traditional America. Modern America, god knows.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 13:25 | 2175080 connda
connda's picture

My dad worked until he was 72 and died two monthes after retiring.  Americans are wired to work themselves to death.

I took early retirement.  Thanks for the wakeup call Dad!

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 21:41 | 2172053 unrulian
unrulian's picture

...american's aren't lazy...what's your trade deficit at now? for that matter how much money have you borrowed from china?...your not lazy...just dumb as stumps

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 17:14 | 2173588 FuentesElla23
FuentesElla23's picture

a best friend's mother-in-law makes $73 hourly on the computer. She has been laid off for 6 months but last month her income was $14399 just working on the computer for a few hours. Go to this web site and read more .... LazyCash9.com

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:25 | 2171164 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Every nation who has at least III percent of its people desiring to be free should follow Iceland's lead and refuse to service any debt originated by fractional reserve banking practices.

Yes, there would be an initial shock to the system, but this would quickly cull what are 90% of the useless banking/financial institutions, 100% of the harmful fractional reserve central banks, and each and every nation so doing would quickly be on a path towards real, non-debt based, economic growth and real wealth creation, forcing a necessary discipline of choosing to live within one's means (while avoiding the forced indebted serfdom that fractional reserve credit schemes allow) and balancing those means with the inherent talent, skills and abilities of the members of the society.

It doesn't take more than III percent in order for such awakenings and rebirths to happen.

III percent is and always has been the critical mass level that overwhelms existing, corrupted systems.

III percent involvement mean that genuinely concerned leaders in industry, government, military and yes, even financial institutions have seen a future that is far better and more sustainable, and they have already banded together, along with supporters from the grass roots of society, to plan the new, debt free system.

Iceland is just the latest example in history (of many) that proves that debt-based economies are unsustainable and antithetical to true democracy and sovereignty.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:31 | 2171191 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 Truth, very interesting post.

I have seen estimates of between 1% - 3% of Americans who own non-jewelry gold.  If we get to the point of having over 3% here owning gold, that would parallel your discussion of III percent.

Very good!

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:43 | 2171213 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

This is why FDR (despite all the distractionary excuses provided) confiscated gold, as it was becoming a threat to the monopoly that were Federal Reserve Notes [in reality, certificates of indebtedness], the only legally recognized form of payment for all debts both public and private (a racket that the global fractional reserve central banking outfit couldn't afford to lose). I have no doubt this would happen again if similar events unfolded now.

By the way, all PIIGS bonds should from now on be sold in the form of instant, scratch & win/lose lotto tickets.

In fact, all bonds of any nation with an economic structure and government borrowing scheme relying on fractional reserve central banks, should be in this form. It would make for more efficient bond sales vs auction and provide the bonus of instant gratification/disappointment.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:03 | 2171266 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Try to have this discussion with 3% of the people you know....

 

Is your country a sovereign country?

   Well, yes.

Does it have the power to coin money?

   Well, yes.

Then why is it in debt? Why does it have to borrow money to exist instead of simply printing it, debt free?

   Huh?

Take a look at your paper money. Was it printed by your government or by a bank?

   Well, it says Bank of........

Is your country a sovereign country?

{silence. conversation over}

 

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:28 | 2171444 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

  Then why is it in debt? Why does it have to borrow money to exist instead of simply printing it, debt free?

How would *you* answer that question?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:37 | 2171476 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Greece, Ireland Can’t Copy Iceland Default Model, Sigfusson Says.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-15/greece-ireland-can-t-default-like-iceland.html

.... "follow Iceland's lead and refuse to service any debt originated by fractional reserve banking practices.".

Link please.

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 19:56 | 2171777 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Do I really care what Sigfusson says?

Do you?

(It's hilarious that Sigfusson claims in that Bloomberg article that Iceland "didn't have the ability to save its banks," by the way. Sure they could have; the same way the U.S. saved many banks here in 2008 - screw the taxpayers over and transfer monies through various schemes to prop the banks up. That claim alone puts his credibility into serious question.)

I've already had this discussion with you.

I've already cited links (look them up) for you specifically, as to how Iceland refused to acknowledge too-big-to-fail banks, allowing many of them to die.

If you understood that many of those banks held Icelandic debt in the form of sovereign bonds, because they were formerly part of a fractional reserve banking network, you would realize what happened to that aggregate debt upon their demise.

What do you think would happen if the U.S. declared the primary dealers, including Goldman Sachs & JP Morgan as 'on their own,' and furthermore, decided, under a new financial/monetary framework, not to acknowledge the legality of their right to collect payment on US Treasury Notes that they held?

Let me break it down even more simply for you:

What do you think would happen if the U.S. Government revoked The Federal Reserve Act and declared all U.S. Treasury Bonds held by The Federal Reserve Bank as null & void?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 20:18 | 2171902 rocker
rocker's picture

  @TruthinSunshine

  Your comments were just simply great and easy for even the dummies to understand.  Really good stuff.

 Footnote: Iceland was upgraded today.  Why, basically because they told Goldman to Fuk themselves.  

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:08 | 2172312 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Yes. I saw that.

I am not one to easily buy into conspiracy theories, but when I see regurgitated statements offering up claims that Iceland was able to do what it did because it's a small, homogeneous nation, and that its path could not be forged by larger, more diverse nations, I have every reason to believe it's a sock puppet effort by bank and government bots to tamp down talk of their worst fears; that average people awaken to the fact that not only could far larger and diverse nations follow Iceland's example, but it would benefit the overwhelming majority (and to an incredibly significant degree) of their citizenry financially and in terms of regaining the ability to wrest themselves free of schemes to perpetually indebt them by those who have been making monopolistic profits by doing nothing except implementing Deep Capture of these nations' legislative and regulatory bodies (and the case of the United States, the executive and judiciary branches of government, as well).

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 13:34 | 2175110 connda
connda's picture

+100

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 21:21 | 2172019 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Gold Confiscation was a myth.....completely misunderstood and used today to sell pricey coins...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuMmQX2TWoQ

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:45 | 2171240 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

TIS, excellent post and prescient presentation of the probable solution.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:55 | 2171280 Ancona
Ancona's picture

Well said ETF, and quite true. when [not if] it happens here, the picture will be quite different from Greece. The Greeks are armed only with petrol bombs........'nuff said.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:06 | 2171342 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Look at the percentages that Ron Paul is getting, especially in Maine, which didn't even COUNT its votes. The bastards. (They don't even deserve to be called bitchez.)

I have had talks with people who were all-out Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, Obama people just weeks ago. They are beginning to turn toward libertarianism as they watch the trained monkeys in Congress. (And please no racist tangents about the White House, it only serves to undermine our message.) And with libertarianism we get real money that the Constitution actually approves. I'm hoping we're getting closer to people actually taking things into their own hands and voting with their money and their futures, not just with some piece of paper in a ballot box.

"People shouldn't be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:38 | 2171216 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Thanks for yet another brilliant post.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:54 | 2171542 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Iceland is to be admired for their actions, but in practice this theory doesn't hold water. There is nothing magic about 3%, it worked in Iceland because they have a small population. The change ushered in by the American Revolution took 12% of the population, was well organized, relied on the highly effective insurgency model, and their rich French Uncle helped out, a lot. 

I just think it will take far more than 3% (who actually grasp the realities) and are willing to stand up and not just set things on fire and act like animals. Unless, of course, we don't care about mass death and reducing our inner cities to smoking craters as this paradigm shift takes place...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 19:04 | 2171741 Styles9002
Styles9002's picture

Agreed. Additionally, nearly everyone in Iceland is related as well. The type of action they took is much easier to accomplish in such an insular, mostly-homogenous society. Whether you like it or not, these characteristics all contributed to the success of the action in Iceland.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 12:31 | 2172885 debtandtaxes
debtandtaxes's picture

Their smaller and homogenous population doesn't make it "easier" to resist the banks.  The fact it's a physically smaller space just means the peasants see their members of the elite every day on the streets of Reykavik and viscerally feel the inequality between the 1% and them.  And know it is undeserved.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 19:11 | 2171747 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

III percent in Iceland is III percent in modern America is III percent in colonial America (former territories of the British Empire and that didn't like it at all), is III percent in pre-Bastille storming France.

It didn't take 12% of the colonial population to plant the seed thatgave rise to the American Revolution. It took a handful of forward looking thinkers, who saw the injustice of their current plight and dire plight that would be their future, unless they planted that seed and nurtured it, so that it would grow robustly and break the shackles of indentured servitude to a Monarchy-enabled fractional reserve banking Ponzi (that had already begun to wrap its talons tightly around the people of England via blackmailing, bribing or killing the members of her legislative bodies and judiciary).

I'll tell you what; answer the following question for me (1 question to start with), and let me judge your answer, based on my own knowledge or lack thereof, as a quid pro quo:

What % of Americans today do you believe truly understand how our nation finances its year-to-year operations?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 20:14 | 2171898 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Oh, oh, this is an easy one! May I?

Q: "What % of Americans today do you believe truly understand how our nation finances its year-to-year operations?"

A: The 3% that buy non-jewellery GOLD

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 00:26 | 2174310 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

The Iceland government refused to bail out the Iceland banks, the banks went broke and the bankers went back to work on the fishing boats.

That was 3 years ago and the Iceland economy is recovering nicely. Fitch just raised their credit to BBB.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:40 | 2171225 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Immovable object (the thought that Greece won't default) meets unstoppable force (reality).

Yes, it will be quite a show.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:48 | 2171252 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Adams

Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.
Aristotle

The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits.
Plutarch

The great thieves lead away the little thief.
Diogenes

Excess of liberty, whether it lies in state or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery.
Plato


Fascism is capitalism in decay.
Vladimir Lenin

 

Fascism is capitalism plus murder.
Upton Sinclair

 

Fascism is a religion. Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini

Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.
John Adams



 

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 10:20 | 2172741 supermirage
supermirage's picture

I might add; Upton Sinclair's line "It is remarkably difficult to make a man understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" was directly lifted from Tomas Jefferson.  Sorry, I cant find a source.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:48 | 2171254 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

How u know this?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:10 | 2171367 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Youre probably right, Greece wont 'default', that would be too easy to call. What will happen is now that the central banks have bought everything with free money, we'll get WW3 one morning soon, best thing ever for a banker is world war. 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:40 | 2171495 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

 

 

Oh, but I am planning accordingly! I'm buying one-year Greek bonds using cash advances from my JPMorgan credit cards! I literally cannot lose!

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 21:46 | 2172059 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

One of the best video speeches I've seen.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:11 | 2171078 Manthong
Manthong's picture

"until they leave the Euro, the Greeks have got no light at the end of the tunnel"

and.. Until Americans leave the Federal Reserve Note, they have got no light at the end of the tunnel.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:15 | 2171122 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

He couldnt be more wrong.

Stay in the Euro, just get paid in less of them FFS. The Dracma would be living hell for them

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:24 | 2171169 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Have you seen the hell they are living through now? I'll wager you haven't.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:38 | 2171219 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

More cocktails to come.....of the "M" varietal.

Unless they ban glass bottles I guess

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:58 | 2171305 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Freedom requires getting out from under the jackboot of bankers and their credit money.

It doesn't matter how or why they got there, all that matters is getting away from it.

The choice is perpetual debt and subjugation or repudiation and freedom.

It won't be easy, but they have to pay a price for the freedom.

We are now where they were several years ago and we will face the same decision.

It will get worse over there, but it will be bad one way or the other..

Here's one look at the present situation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/the-way-greeks-live-now.html?_r=3

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 15:33 | 2173284 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"a Greek journalist named Aris Hadjigeorgiou was holding forth one day in late November about the calamitous state of his city and country as only a veteran metropolitan reporter could. He explicated the insidious ways in which the upper echelons of Greek media were intertwined with the political structure, which prevented reporting of financial mismanagement and also clouded any hope for resolving the crisis."

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:56 | 2171285 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

If things in America were like they are in Greece right now, there'd be so much blood in the streets you'd think it had been raining cherries.  Whatever Bernanke and the boys have cooked up (conspirator-theorists, Rothschildes, etc, notwithstanding), had better be more than a wish-and-a-prayer, or it's gonna get pretty dangerous here, too.  Iceland did the only thing they could sensibly do - 'sensibly' be the key word.  Greece should tell the ECU, ' sorry guys, we're gonna start over and try & piece our country back together agains, so see ya' later.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:31 | 2171194 sodbuster
sodbuster's picture

They tried that same scare tactic on Iceland.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:02 | 2171321 pods
pods's picture

Hell?  Yeah, the picnic that is current life would end.

Let me guess, if they default there would be tanks in the streets?

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 21:34 | 2172041 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Just imagine how a gold standard will affect the socialists and then you will see fireworks.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:29 | 2171189 duo
duo's picture

speaking of light, he seemed to be speaking from the mens room of the Heathrow British Airways first class lounge.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:54 | 2171269 resurger
resurger's picture

There is a douche who say's the EUR is good... yeah you guessed who!

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:01 | 2171313 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

I remember traveling multiple countries in Europe when the Euro was on the drawing board.  I remember my German associates telling me they thought this was a really bad idea.  A year or so in those same folks were telling me how just the transition alone pushed gas & food prices through the roof in Germany.  One gentleman who I visited with over a couple years at that point, said though it was good to be more united in Europe, the common currency was a very bad idea.....ok, he was right.  America the EU is not.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:20 | 2171621 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

1 out of 6 billion. Looks like im on the right side of the boat asshole

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:08 | 2171080 machineh
machineh's picture

'Default, Decouple, Devalue' ... and Decontaminate, as the last Troika-crat leaves town.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:16 | 2171137 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Fuck devalue.

You dont get it. Abolish the minimum wage in Greece and the nanny state handouts. Earning less Euro's amounts to the same as devaluing without screwing the savers.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:24 | 2171166 Deep79
Deep79's picture

I don think you get it. How can they "Earn less euro"s" what the hell does that mean. Let me guess, just pay them less money for their labour.

 

 

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:29 | 2171188 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

"By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some." - Keynes

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:06 | 2172429 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Feck...Keynes...he was a weirdo and a hapless economic romantic...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:54 | 2171276 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Yes, abolish the minimum so that they will be more competative in that region. BMW could open a plant there paying 3.50 Euro an hour or wherever the chips fall. Euopeans could  vacation there with the people earning less per hour.

 

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:17 | 2171391 pods
pods's picture

Let me guess, you make your living doing something with finance?

pods

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:25 | 2171434 Seer
Seer's picture

It's a big paradigm shift.  Your comment is no more than "the next cycle will come around" thinking, it represents a dying paradigm, one that's on its way out.

This ALL has to do with global decline.  Look around you, do you really see that the Greeks could magically start spewing quality BMWs and that there would be sufficient market out there for them?  And on TOP of this unlikelihood is that fact that they're massively in debt.

Germany is fucked.  Greece is fucked.  Why?  Show me their physical/natural resources (esp energy).  Checkmate!

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:20 | 2171406 css1971
css1971's picture

They need to pay the national debt. Not happening in euros.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:01 | 2171561 machineh
machineh's picture

Andrew Mellon, is that you? 

Pretty cool that Hell now has internet service! 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 21:51 | 2172073 unrulian
unrulian's picture

The US is a nanny state...go fuck a dog elliot

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:08 | 2171082 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Cavuto is such an imposter. What a joke.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:53 | 2171267 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

He sat, blank-faced, through the Upton Sinclair quote. There was a voice in his ear (audioprompter?) telling him what to ask next and he didn't even slightly catch the stunning beauty of the words.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:09 | 2171088 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Export your way back to growth"  Baaaaahhhha ha ha ha!  

This is mantra that the world is trying to practice.  Precisely who is the earth exporting to again?  Baaahahha ha.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:11 | 2171106 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Our kids.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:20 | 2171157 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

On what planet?  The earth's balance sheet is what it is.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:20 | 2171404 pods
pods's picture

The USSA is rockin in exports.  Of course, our main export is debt, but I digress.

pods

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:36 | 2171477 Seer
Seer's picture

If you mean that we're (increasingly) exporting the promise of payment through the labors of our children and future generations (in return for actual goods), then yes, you are correct.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:12 | 2171108 littleguy
littleguy's picture

Listen PhysicsLaws, it's a simple equation. People are too poor to afford holidays in Europe from Northern Europe. We like to go on holidays. Greece is a nice place to go on holiday. Hence, I'll go slowly so it's simple to understand...

Greece deaults, drachma is worth nothing.. people from Northern Europe can afford to go on holiday in Greece. People go on holiday in Greece. They can ship stuff for a pittence too. The Greek economy recovers a little bit so that they can feed their kids. 

It's a darn sight better than starving to death and never ever ever ever having any kind of trade with the outside world ever again.

The EU is destroying the fabric of it's southern member states. It must be stopped. It's a completely maniacal political project by a bunch of fat socialist Frenchmen / Belgians. 

Simples. 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:19 | 2171152 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Not really good at identifying sarcasm are you?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:21 | 2171158 littleguy
littleguy's picture

Not when it's not apparent. Your comment just reads like you're a moronic Euroautomaton. Forgive me, there are many of them around. 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:26 | 2171178 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

next time you see one, ask them how that pound sterling is working out for them.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:05 | 2171572 littleguy
littleguy's picture

It's working out just fine thanks. Print print print, print print print. Ahhh printing. 

It works... for now.

Fuck off.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:43 | 2171509 Seer
Seer's picture

Been paying attention to fuel costs lately?

Again, this is old-paradigm thinking, the same old "here's how we did it in the past, let's do it again" thinking.

Your argument supposes that, in the face of declining "wealth" and increasing costs (of real shit) that people will magically get up and dance their way to Greece.

I'm not saying that the left-over rich with disposable income wont' take advantage of the crisis-funded discount, but I hardly think that there would be anything remotely looking like what you suggest "salvation through tourism."

Remember: if you owe your banker $1,000 you're in trouble; if you owe your banker $1,000,000,000,000 HE'S in trouble.  The pockets of those flocking tourists might not be so whole as you might think.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:04 | 2171331 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Yeah; working real good for the average Chinese man on the street...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:09 | 2171089 littleguy
littleguy's picture

Hannan needs to hurry up and get his ass into Westminster and out of Brussels / Strasbourg. He's a waste of talent there. 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:09 | 2171093 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

Today, I bought a new Granfors Bruks forrest axe. I think I'm going to be using it very soon.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:16 | 2171131 charms9
charms9's picture

Those look awesome. I really want one, but don't have much use to justify buying it. It has to be a better investment than US$ though.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:33 | 2171203 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

Thanks, a few years ago I setup on a small island off the west coast of Scotland, moved from city. Got myself a boat and 3 acres of land. I've been learning to small scale farm in my spare time lately and it's fun but really tough work. The rain is absurd here.

I completely respect farmers now, I have aches and pains everywhere but this year I should be growing enough to feed me and even give away or trade a load. The Gransfors I will use as I heat all my water and heat the farmhouse from wood burners. Boy is it a sharp axe, and as a metallurgist, I appeciate a nice lump of hand forged steel. Highly recommended. This year I got 64 tonnes of wood delivered to the island. I will use about 15 T per annum but OMFG what a pile of logs, really crapping myself at the thought of chopping through it all and stacking it. Reckoned I needed a good axe. Also, any marauding visitors form post apocalyptic cities might just be in for a little surprise. We are a close community.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:02 | 2171324 charms9
charms9's picture

The stack must be pretty impressive. That's a great new slant on "stacking the phyiscal." 

You may also need to invest in their Splitting Maul and a wedge. With that amount of wood, a hydraulic splitter might be in order.

I can only imagine the amount of rain you get. I was in Scotland nearly 18 years ago on vacation and remember we drove from Loch Ness south to Edinburgh. We stopped about halfway down and got refreshments. While we were stopped, the sun came out. The woman working the bar said that was the first time in 3 weeks they had seen the sun, and that was in the middle of the country.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 20:34 | 2171937 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

Yep, a lot of UK has some some recurring drought issues.

Here I think 950 hours of sunshine last year compared to 1350 average for rest of the country.

The lows just roll in off the Atlantic and empty on us.

Come on over and do the Edinburgh Fesival it's massive now very year. Well worth a visit.

 

 

 

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:16 | 2171389 css1971
css1971's picture

You know you can get things like chainsaws to cut wood these days?

 You need a real Aran sweater and a flat cap to keep the rain off.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:45 | 2171243 youngman
youngman's picture

I have three...they are great

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:50 | 2171256 green888
green888's picture

Can you shave with that axe ?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:01 | 2171562 Seer
Seer's picture

Was given a Legitimus and Collins 22" machete and have used it quite extensively.  I'll often forgo the use of my professional grade weed/brush cutter and use it instead.  Switching between hands I can make quite a headway.

Got my wife a Ka-bar black cutlass machete.  Small by machete standards, but it really packs a punch: I've used it to cut through saplings up to several inches in diameter.

My Fiskars splitting axe is the only axe I have.  This one is extensively used, with excellent results, by my diminutive wife.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 21:56 | 2172082 unrulian
unrulian's picture

silver, lead and tin my friend

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:10 | 2171096 prains
prains's picture

Nigel part deux

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:10 | 2171098 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Yesterday, in a fit of rage, I declared Fox had nobody left worth watching after getting rid of The Judge. I forgot about Cavuto, so I was wrong. He gives RP and others like Hannan play while the regulars at Fox try to ignore them. And while I'm coming clean, Asman, Varney, and Payne aren't that bad either. Still never going to turn that shit network on again though.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:37 | 2171209 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

So, who is left to watch?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:50 | 2171249 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

The aforementioned...online, where the network does not profit. And there's always RT, Al-Jazeera, lots of great youtube people, etc.

But, if you're asking if there's anyone left I think is worth watching regularly on TV, I'm blank. Far better to *read* multiple sources and draw one's own conclusions anyhow.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:59 | 2172420 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Shit network conrad? Compared to what? Your feckin dreams?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:10 | 2171099 EBR MOD 0
EBR MOD 0's picture

does this mean the can is finally bent up enough they can't kick it any more? blah, blah, blah, when does this shit finally crash?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:11 | 2171103 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

One thing that probably Danny Hannon and Paul Kregman agree on is that the dollar is the best of the big fiat currencies. When in fact, The Euro is the best of the big three currencies.

Not the fucking dollar

http://freegoldobserver.blogspot.com/2011/09/is-euro-system-next-monetar...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:16 | 2171136 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Anglo-media has destroyed that dream and the OPECs + China, India and Russia seem to be going the way of local or barter. This will not happen.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:25 | 2171172 j.tennquist
j.tennquist's picture

Talking about "best" fiat currencies is like talking about viruses.   Which one is the least deadly and which one will kill you the quickest.   Strange comparison. 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:09 | 2171586 Seer
Seer's picture

I'll never tire of using the saying: Best looking horse at the glue factory.

This entire Ponzi (global 'grow till you puke' economy) is coming down in flames.

Vultures are always giddy at the sight of new carcasses.  And when there are no more (carcasses left)?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 20:31 | 2171931 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Give it time, Spitzer... We'll see, we'll see. My family in America declared, out of their profound monetary and historic knowledge, the EUR dead in six months. in 2009. And in 2010. And last year.

As YOU know well, the fun part is not the currencies freefall contest, it's when Central Banks start breaking.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:11 | 2171105 Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture

Ron Paul is the rockstar and Neil Cavuto is the lusty roadie for The Outfield...before they had that one hit.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:15 | 2171123 trade the day
trade the day's picture

Whatever.  Everyone is warning of all these end of the world as we know it scenarios if Greece defaults and Lehman this and Lehman that.  Bottom line, no one said shit before Lehman collapsed.  Thats why it was so bad.  It wasn't seen.  There were no warnings of contagion.  This has been seen for two years now - nothing bad happens when you expect it. Besides, Jamie Dimon said we have zero impact from a Greek default. Remember the US downgrade?  All that hype and warning.  Here we are S&P 1360.  It's fixed, rigged and only the big players know where this market is heading which is probably higher because the sheeple are being told to run for the exits.  Bottom line:  Banks, hedge funds don't want to lose.  And if they do, they don't tell you they lost like they did with Iceland.  Imagine if everyone knew that banks can go bust with no bailout and we can still survive?  I shouldn't even type the words.  On a long enough timeline...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:33 | 2171200 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Comment of the Day.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:40 | 2171220 Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture

I wonder if your money is where your mouth is. It would take some huge, gnarly balls to be long the S&P and have a stash of fiat under your mattress!

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:55 | 2171277 trade the day
trade the day's picture

I am currently long audnzd if you must know

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:38 | 2171491 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Chicken.

Those are currencies backed by commodities and realtively sound monetary policies.

If you really want to leverage your faith in fiat systems, try the Yen.

I have no idea what's backing that thing up.

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:01 | 2171312 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Sheeple being told to run for the exits? All Im hearing is a media wide euphoriafest, Barrons has a headline with 5 inch letter declaring 'DOW 15,000!!' 

Im not seeing the dire warnings of anything.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 22:01 | 2172094 unrulian
unrulian's picture

i actually think the cnbc stock picking dog is named long or bull or something...bullish

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:21 | 2171629 Seer
Seer's picture

Well, one day the cancer patient didn't have cancer...

No argument from me that there are plenty out there, especially TPTB, that want to leverage all of this.  But, such observances and arguments are but talk, reality WILL come calling, and it's in complete disagreement that this is all insignificant.

The first shout of "fire" in the theatre may or may not be for an actual fire BUT, the theatre WILL empty.

Greece is part of the global economic System.  It has allowed the game to continue.  It may appear to be only a loose thread, but that thread's connected: that's why to-date it hasn't really been tossed against the wall (blackmail- the threads can be traced).

Lehman was a COMPANY.  Greece is a COUNTRY.  Lehman wasn't talked about because they knew what they were going to do (and did it).  Greece is talked about in order to prepare people for what will be coming and what cannot be hidden behind closed doors.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:40 | 2171133 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Well  with Ron Paul, Daniel, and Nigel that's three people telling the truth so far. It won't be long and w will have a quorum.

Cavuto sure is hard to watch though.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:18 | 2171145 Freegolder
Freegolder's picture

Yeah sure Daniel, blame Greek debts on a currency! It's  just a medium of exchange.

Greece needs to default, but stay in the Eurozone, as otherwise it just wipes out its savers.

That is the good option.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:19 | 2171155 littleguy
littleguy's picture

The savers are already toast, they're unemployed dimwit.

 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:24 | 2171167 non_anon
non_anon's picture

spot on, too many salaries depend on this farce

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:32 | 2171196 adr
adr's picture

The politician will never prosecute the banker, for his fortune will be jeapordized. Unless the politician believes his job is in jeapordy. Then he will claim he will prosecute the banker, only to later say it was not in his power to do so. The banker goes free, the politician recieves a nice fat check. It only becomes worse when the bankers are the politicians and the other way around as well.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:33 | 2171202 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

"until they leave the Euro, the Greeks have got no light at the end of the tunnel,"

thank god for the truth!!!! default here and default now

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:38 | 2171205 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

 

 

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A790-gWdFYA

                                    V

                              ''HIS SALARY DEPENDS UPON etc... IT'' 

                                    ^  

                                 ^^^^

       ...and there it is^^^^^^^^ the mark of the beast, ''HIS NAME'' and "SALARY NUMBER''  

This is the name of a man and his account number, which is equal with 666. 

It is the short term delusion and the lack of mercy.

It is antichrist and pathetic.

It represents the mark of debt now upon labor and the lack of security for everyone. 

All based on the prophetic strong delusion, which defines that people do not love the Truth and the fact that they must not feed the black hole, they must stop working for it and seal it shut.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:37 | 2171214 sunkencities
sunkencities's picture

haha incredible, the french of course: http://www.oneaddition.com

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:38 | 2171217 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

When it gets us out of the euro and Brussels financial fascism, please, please, help us to default too.

Greetz from Amsterdam

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:41 | 2171222 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Hmmm, so if THIS is the recovery & Daniel Hannan indicates all options from here are bad...then I guess that makes now 'The Good Old Days'...Although I am certain bad is a relative term whose severity increases exponentially if you are not affiliated with Wall St, Washington DC (including K Street) & any TBTF organization...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:42 | 2171235 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

April 29th 2011 SPY closing high of 136.43. Spy today 136.43......it's getting interesting with Apple starting to drag.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:45 | 2171242 GoodMorningMr.V...
GoodMorningMr.VanRumpoy...'s picture

He speaks such a clean English. It must give him extreme clarity of thought.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 16:58 | 2171292 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'All options from here are bad'...still no reason to put a damper on the full-retard eurphoria fest, for today anyway!

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 17:17 | 2171368 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

dont ever put him on same screen as that fat liar neo con Chris Christie !!!!!!!!!!

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